CHRIS FINAL: Supporting the mission. The Rescue Lab, an initiative of the New England Rescue Collaborative, is made possible through the support of engine house designs, Carry Less Supply, and Rigboard Co. Together we're working to advance technical rescue, strengthen operational readiness, and share the stories of specialized rescue teams around the world. The rescue is only part of the story. What happens before the call? How are teams built? How do they train, prepare, and perform when everything is on the line? At the Rescue Lab, we go behind the scenes with specialized rescue teams and the people who make them possible. Exploring the training, leadership, and culture behind operational readiness. From the New England Rescue Collaborative, this is the Rescue Lab. Wait. Welcome to the Rescue Lab. Today we got we got a great episode for our Field Notes section. Yeah, most people know the silhouette, but very few know the story behind the photograph that became an icon within the rescue swimmer community. Today we explore the journey from Coast Guard rescue swimmer to photographer, storyteller, entrepreneur, and steward of unique culture. This is the Rescue Lab Field Notes with Chris Razok from Rescue Swimmer Shop. Chris, yes sir. Greetings. Greetings. Thank you for having me on, man. No, dude, thank you. I just beforehand I told him that thank you for actually responding to my crazy request online to speak to him. I love what you guys do as a profession. And you know, obviously for the fire tech rescue use our side, like it fits in very well with what we do. And then you couple that with your story about rescue streamer shop. And I know you have been targeting me specifically with your ad, so maybe that's what really led this off. Somebody's seeing them. Yeah, yeah. but no, I mean, we we love to to talk about, you know, your story. We want to hear the story about Rescue Swimmer Shop and and what what you do there. But why don't you tell us a little bit about you, you know, where grew up and sort of what shaped your sense of adventure. Yeah. well, first off, thank you for what you do. So Please. much much appreciated your s in your service to others. Thank you, sir. Yeah. I I grew up in Haverill, Massachusetts. Just down the road. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause what town are you in? I'm in Medford. Okay. Yep. So right down the street. Went to Central Catholic, which is an all boys high school, and then I went off to college for a little bit there, at Seton Hall University. I had a little too much fun while I was there. It's all right. And yeah, so I did about a year and a half there and that time ended. And so my dad was like, You're either gonna get a job, go to community college, or join the military. So my resident assistant at Seton Hall, he he was older. He was probably twenty seven, twenty eight, and he had been in the Coast Guard and he had shown me some videos, they did videos that he had actually done some drug boss and it was pretty cool. So that kinda I guess piqued my interest. And so I went to go see the recruiter in Boston and I got the pamphlet and I was like, What's what's this job where where guys are jumping out of helicopters? Yeah. and the the recruiter's like, Dude, he's like, don't even bother with that. It's a long waiting list, nobody makes it through the school. He's like, I would probably do something else and so I decided, Well, I don't know, let's give it a shot. So yeah. I joined and I I it was really just kinda to figure out what I wanted to do with my life because I think at that age you don't it's difficult to figure out what you want to do at eighteen years old or nineteen or twenty. And so really when I joined, I guess my thought was to just have fun, have an experience. You know, I wanted to be able to say that I served my country and so I thought it would be good and I thought I would do four years and I ended up sticking around for twenty seventh. yeah, we're the exact opposite. I was I was only in for the four, but you stayed for the twenty seven. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever did you ever consider any other branches or were you just, hey, I'm I'm Coast Guard all the way? Yeah, no, I mean I saw I saw all the recruiters, the Marines, the Navy. But I don't know. It didn't I guess it seemed when I went to go join Those guys were like after you. They were after me. I was landscaping at the time and I'd be cutting grass and a a recruiter in uniform would get out of his car and be like, Hey man, he's like, You want to join the Marines? And it's it seemed like you were just a number, so with the Coast Guard it just didn't seem like that. c I kinda pursued them. They didn't pursue me. And so yeah, I just decided I thought, the Coast Guard was the right decision and when I was younger my dad had a sailboat and We'd always cruise by the dock and there's the Coast Guard. My dad'd be like, Look at these coasties out there just sitting on the dock smoking cigarettes and and so, I guess I'd seen which with the navy, the army, you don't really see them in person, but being on the water with my dad's boat, we would come in contact with the Coast Guard. So I don't know, it just that's the way it kinda happened. It it happens how it's supposed to happen, man. Yeah. So when did you when did you first learn about the aviation survival technician? Or, was it just from that pamphlet or When you actually got into the service where you're like, this is what I want to do. No, it was it was just from that pamphlet. And so when I joined, you know, that's kind of what I thought I would do. You know, at the time though, you would join the Coast Guard and then you know, you go to a boat or a station and you just paint and sand the boat or whatever. So, you know, you have no job, you're just a a non rate. And so I had never met a rescue swimmer. I'd never seen a rescue swimmer. you just kinda now that I was in the Coast Guard, these you see the stories more often and, it just seemed like, it was a job like out of a movie, and and that's kinda what I wanted to do. I just wanted to be in the action. And so I decided, this is what I want to do. I put my name on the list. my name came up on the list and then, I I I had never been in a helicopter, I'd never been to an air station, so I got a s assigned to air station Astoria. And when I arrived there, those are the first rescue swimmers I had ever met. it was a completely different world than the boat community. when I showed up there, I was just like, this is just so much different, you know? And it felt like I was at home. So yeah. And then it kind of just, you know, I trained there. How's it work? Do you go to technician school or do you go to your duty station first and then go through the the course? So this is a long time ago. This is twenty five years ago. So it operates a little bit differently now. For me, when I went through, they had the airmen program and so you would go to an air station to train, you would train with the rescue swimmers, and then you would go off to rescue swimmer school for four and a half months. And then after that, at that time, you would go back to the unit that you did your airmen program at. So after I graduated rescue swimmer school, I went back to air station Astoria. And then you get qualified in the helicopter, begin standing duty and pretty much start your career. Now it's a little bit different, but that's that's how it worked back in those days. Yeah. And what, walk us through the rescue summer school. obviously I'm sure it's very physical, but what were the psychological, effects like? I guess it it's extremely demanding. And again, I went through twenty five years ago, so it's it's completely different than it Than it was at that time. at that time it was four and a half months. Now it's six months. EMT schools included, with rescue swimmer n school now. At that time, you went through rescue swimmer school, and then when you were you completed it, then you went to EMT school. So I mean, yeah, extremely demanding. It was, you know, the at the time and when I went through, it was three phases first phase, second phase, third phase. And, you know, each phase got Harder as you went through. and it was just a beatdown. it really was just it seemed like there was no limits to, what whatever they wanted to do. And, I wasn't the best runner. So some classes, third phase would come back and be Yo, we went on a fourteen mile run today, and I'm like No, you know, and but you know, the my class didn't have to go on that run, but that's good. You know, it just kinda seemed what they what They want whatever the instructors wanted to do at that time. I'm sure that there was, you limits to what they do, but it felt like there were no limits. That was back in the wild days, there were probably no limits. Yeah. So there's limits because of what you guys did. Yeah. So, you know, now nowadays it's it's completely different. There's like a whole pipeline starting, you know, from boot camp and getting guys into the rescue swimmer program, having them, you know, complete the minimums and then go to the air station. And then a 16 week, training program that they go through. And then also what they do is now is they'll send them out to rescue swimmer school for a prep program for a week. So they'll go out from their air station, they'll spend a week there at school with the with the A school instructors evaluating they'll let know, you know, what they have to work on and then send them back to the air station. They can work on those things and then f you know, eventually go back to score school or would decide after that week at school if it's for them or not. Why do you think why do you think they did that? Was it was the retention rate just dropping or Yeah, I think I mean, I know at one point only like seventeen percent of the people were getting through rescue swimmer school that went. You know, starting I think to to improve them the numbers over the years, they started earlier and earlier. So now it's like you can take, you know, an in test at boot camp. See if you qualify. If you qualify, okay, then you can go to the air station. Can you pass these numbers? Okay, now if this is right for you, now you're going off to rescue swimmer school for a week, evaluate evaluated by the instructors. you can get you can either weed yourself out or they can weed you out before you even make it. So that, the only the the best of the best are making it to rescue swimmer school once they get there because, Now the I know the numbers have dramatically improved since they started doing this. So it's just, I think to get more people through school successfully through school. Yeah. Yeah. And do you recall a moment, where you were in school and you were questioning hey, do I belong here? And and what happened from that moment on? Yeah, I think from day one it's you know, it's it's you you're you're headed into the unknown, you know, 'cause you don't know what to expect. Of course you're talking to, the rescue swimmers that have been through, but you're you don't know what to expect from it. And, I guess from my perspective, it was like for me, I felt like, this is the most difficult thing that I'm ever gonna do. it's you're it's it's not being a Navy SEAL, but in the Coast Guard, this is maybe one of the the hardest programs that they have to offer. So, it's maybe a little self self doubt. You don't know what yourself you're getting yourself into. And then you you just take it one day at a time. sure, there was I had one day in third phase where it was just a complete I think it was the first day of third phase, which was just a rude awakening from, you know, an hour session, you know, on the grinder doing push ups and, you know, all that stuff for an hour and then going on, you know, a seven minute mile run and then, you know, and it's a hundred degrees out. so you're on this run, your head feels like it's gonna explode and we had we had then we go directly into the pool, and I'm like, man, we're gonna be in this pool for three hours. I think at the end of the run, it'd gotten into the pool and I couldn't I move I could swim, but I'm barely getting one arm out in front of the other, and yeah. This is like the second lap. I'm just like, Man, I've been here three months, dude when I'm getting towards the I can barely move my arms, and I'm like, when I get to the shallow end of the pool, I am gonna stand up and I'm going home. And so, you know, it's like I got to the shallow end and I just turned around and kept swimming, you know, 'cause it's like Yeah, you just even though you wanna quit, you can't quit, you know, but that's kind of what it takes to be a rescue swimmer, is you just even though you may want to, you just don't have it in you to quit, you know. What do you think? What you think separates the people that graduate from the ones that don't though? Is it is it fitness? Is it mindset, adaptability? I would say I I can only give you my perspective, but I would I would say I think one of the biggest things, there's a lot of people that go when they're in shape and, better shape than I was, but if you can't if you're not able to use your brain in a in a high pressure situation. If you just if your brain can't function, because you know, when you're going through all these tests in school, you know, there's all these steps that you need to do to complete everything, the rings on the hook and you know, whatever you gotta do. and if you can't breathe and the instructors are trying to drown you and screaming at you and your brain can't function and complete these steps, like you will never make it through. Because, you know, in the end You get on that helicopter with your crew and you go out, sixty miles, hundred miles offshore, there is no I'm not sure I can do this. You have to complete there is no failure. That option is not there. So, they need to be sure that they're putting somebody out there that can, function in a high stress environment. And so when you're when you're actually operational, what does you and you go out on a mission, what is the crew makeup? So it's it's always gonna be two pilots. a flight mechanic and a rescue swimmer. The pilots we have I mean, from my perspective, the best pilots in the world, you know, especially, you know, flying in in weather. Bless best flight mechanics in the world. you know, obviously completely trust each other with our lives. Yeah. When you go out on a mission, yeah, two pilots, a flight mechanic and a rescue swimmer. And that's when you do a t usually do a twenty four hour shift, once a week, twice a week, usually it averages out to about once a week. If you're younger, you might be standing more duty. and if the alarm goes up off in that twenty four hours, you're the crew that's gonna be go out and doing whatever the mission is. So yeah, you get out of school, you go back to your duty station, describe your first operational rescue, in it was whatever detail you can. But how did that training compare to the reality of that of that mission? so I guess, being a rescue swimmer, you really you really never know what you're gonna get into. So, it's you're waiting for your first case and it could be a water case, it could be a cliff rescue, yeah, you could be going out to a ship on fire. And for me, it's like it had taken a while. So my there was myself and another guy, and we both went to school at the same time and and we both went to back to air station Astoria. And he had had a case and it was taking a while for me. And it's a little sleepy out there. obviously it's that's Pacific Northwest and cr crazy dangerous area, but it is a little sleepy too, as far as search and rescue is concerned. So I had been waiting and waiting and then all of a sudden, the alarm went off and it was it was a Medevac and that wasn't my duty day. And, I think as a young guy, you're always scared, new out of EMT school. I mean, you probably have the same experience like You don't know what you're gonna bump bump into on a on a on a Medevac. And, you're not a doctor, but you're the only person that's going out there, So it's like they're you're all they got. so it wasn't my case and it was a girl that had fallen like three or four hundred feet down a cliff. and they're like, Chris, you want the case? And I'm like like, you know, in my head I'm like, I don't wanna go in my first case. A girl fell four hundred feet down a cliff and they're like they're like, take it or or Ty's gonna take it, which was the other new guy. And I'm like, all right, I'll take it. And so I went out there and and luckily there had already been some some firefighters on scene. But I I got put down on these rocks on the beach, but it wasn't a beach, it was, these boulders. Yeah, just ten foot, twelve foot boulders and I got this, forty five pound litter and cause they couldn't get they couldn't get me right to her. So I was scale, and I'm in a dry suit. Some sweating my ass off and it's the summer, 'cause the water's cold, so I gotta have a dry suit on. Yeah. So, I got over there and and she, had a broken leg and, she was pretty messed up. but luckily there was a paramedic on scene, so that was helpful. And, we packaged her up and and and hoisted her out of there and took her to the hospital. that was my first case. it was nice y if you are gonna go on to MetaFact to have a paramedic on scene. Absolutely. So I l I lucked out, yeah. Yeah. I got a paramedic on my truck, so that always makes me feel nice. A little bit better. Takes the takes the edge off just a little bit. But so, through your time, what did what did being a rescue swimmer and being on the Coast Guard what did it teach you about fear and confidence, going into these situations? 'Cause I imagine you're roll you get limit just like us probably you get limited information rolling out to something, y on the way out your mind is is strolling through stuff. How do you how do you I don't as far as fear, I don't think for me personally, I've never like going out to a case, I think as a rescue swimmer, you're more pumped. whatever it is, you're gonna go get it done. Same as in your profession, you get on the truck, let's go do this. I don't think fear comes into the situation until the shit hits the fan and you think you're gonna die. Yeah. And it's like those are things that you don't expect until they happen, and shit goes sideways. and it does it will go sideways. Always. So, So how do you factor for that then? How do you factor for shit going because it is. How do you factor for it? all the training that we do and the pilots and the flight mechanics, you just have full trust in in the crew, so but in the back of your in the back of your mind, anything can happen at any time. And it is a super dangerous job. And, I think when you're younger, you don't think like that. it's like you haven't had these experiences where you've been in really sticky situations, and and yeah, I've had I've come been in situations where I I would literally have thought, am I gonna die right here? So when you're younger, you don't think like that. You think you're invincible, it doesn't matter thirty, forty, fifty foot C's, put me on the side of this cliff and whatever wins, like it doesn't matter. Like you just want to do the most dangerous thing that you can to help somebody, you know. And so But when you get older and you've had all these experiences, I think, I noticed when I started getting around sixteen, eighteen years, it's like, hey, do you want to go out, to get this guy off this fishing trawler, and then you're sitting in the door and they're about to hoist you through some wires on a ship and it's like, you know what, why don't we just put the basket down? so but that comes with experience. So No, I think absolutely. Yeah, and it's same with you with burning buildings or whatever it is with that experience comes the knowledge of, there's a better and smarter way to do this. It's self preservation. Yeah. What about it the rescue swimmers, I I would lump it as a community, like a family. Why is why is that bond so strong? I think just because we've all been through that same, yeah, impossible training together. So we all know, what that's like and we all made it. So it is kinda I think a brotherhood of of that. Plus, it is a it's a small community. And usually the shops are are small too. there are I retired out of Air Station Clearwater, we had about twenty five swimmers there. But a lot of the shops are smaller shops with eight guys, ten guys. Okay. So it is, and you're all working in in the same shop together. So it is, just a small little brotherhood that sticks to sticks together. Do you know how many how many total rescue swimmers are in the service? either back then or or current? anywhere I would say from three hundred to three hundred and fifty Wow, that's it. Yeah, at at one time. A tho I know there's been o there's over a thousand. They might be at eleven hundred total rescue swimmers ever. and you guys get a do you get a n a number when you graduate? Yeah, we all get a number. So, you know, it started with the first five and then continued on from there. So Yeah, 'cause there is there is a podcast that I think they talk to everyone. They just refer to them with their numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'd I'd heard that somewhere. Yep. So I'm five two six and then Dude, that's crazy. That's my favorite number, five two six. Five two six is your favorite number? Come on. Yes. Come on. How'd you know that? So you know, but now I think they're at like a thousand or eleven hundred. I don't know exactly how many they're at, but yeah. Yeah. And what I mean, I I'm sure like on the fireside we got our stuff, are there any, you know, goofy traditions or or unwritten rules that define sort of, you know, guys like pranks you playing each other or No, once you once you become qualified and you finish all your all your flights, there is a ceremony, you know, once you get off that final flight. Yeah, of course there's, you know, there's the pranks that are gonna happen and the fights that might result of those pranks and you know, but whatever. But yeah, I mean it's it's it's gotta be I gotta say or guess that it's exactly how it, you know, would be for in any fire department. Yeah. I I'd we're all covering the same cloth. Yeah. Yep. You when you're working on a helicopter, you talk you you talk about obviously you have to trust everyone with your lives. Is there you know, what characteristics make someone tr a trusted member of a crew? I mean, I think we're all I mean, it is to me it's it is kind of like a family, you know, and the Coast Guard, I guess I've always referred it to as like my family because I never had you know, I didn't have a wife through most of my time in the Coast Guard and the Coast Guard was my family. And it's just it's a The Coast Guard is a small community and you all know each other. As far as, the qualities, it's not like, I can't imagine what it's like in an army base or a navy base, but everybody really knows each other when you're at a Coast Guard air station. I there there's so there's we go through so much training, the pilots go through so much training and the flight mechanics, there's just that trust that everyone everyone's training is gonna, show up. when it's needed. And as far as the charac characteristics, it's just these are mostly all honest people that you you you really are trusting with your life, whether it's a flight mechanic or a pilot. So really it boils down to the training and that that's really what it comes down to. How has how have you seen the rescue swimmer community change during your time in your career, even outside of it? I would say I it's definitely I think the s the rescue swimmers today w when I was coming up, a lot of the a lot of the people, I wouldn't say everybody, but a lot of people are just they graduated high school and then went into the military. it's like now nowadays, these guys are really refined and they've got, jerse and like seriously, you know, and they're really smart guys, but at the same time, like, you know, the way that the program has become is like these guys are just friggin' animals when they come out of school. And They're brilliant. So now it's like you have these really smart guys that are super fit and professionals in the job. So and you know, one of the other things I'd say that's changed a lot is you know, all the gear that's us been used over the years. So I mean it's I mean, there's so many things have evolved as far as like the wetsuits and I mean, right down to the harnesses that we wear, the helmets, the radios, like everything has made improvements over the past twenty five years. So it's the guys that are on the standardization team and they're they are professionals at what they're doing and at the tip of the spear as far as the gear that's being used these days. Yeah. well let's switch gears. you know, during this time, during your time with the Coast Guard, you you said you loved photography. When did you know that photography was gonna be a little bit more than a hobby? So, you know, I when I was in Astoria when I first got there, I just I fell in love with the photography and I did I don't know why, but I liked looking at pictures and and I wanted to be able to create cool pictures. so I I bought a camera. I had no idea, how to use it. And so I just started reading book after book after book and learned as much as I could, on my own. From there and like I said, the entire time that I've been in the Coast Guard, I've always been doing something on the outside. And so when I when I went to air station Miami I I started going to the the Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale for college at night for photography. Nice. And so eventually I transferred to Air Station Atlantic City and that's, where I created the silhouette and a couple of people asked me to shoot their weddings. I had some experience, you know, with weddings. And so from that I s I ended up shooting their weddings and I started a wedding photography business. You I was like a working full time and then I had Christopher photography, which was The wedding business, shooting a wedding. Sometimes, I work all week, do a twenty four hour shift, shoot a wedding on Saturday, shoot a wedding Sunday, back to work on Monday, twenty four hours. It's the grind. Yeah. So and then, you know, at one point I stopped shooting weddings and I started the editorial business and I started shooting portraits for magazines and some of those magazines were the MBA magazine Slam. Yeah, you sent me the the picture of Tatum there. yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was cool, man. So yeah, that was cool. The early the early days of photography, what what caught your eye or what did you like to photograph? The early days. the early days, I was really into landscape photography and I thought I was gonna be a landscape photographer. So you you had mentioned it, this this fa now famous, if I can use those words. Is it? In my eyes. my eyes it is. So you you and you had this idea for this photo that just captured everything, I think. That the rescue community stands for, the rescue summer community. But tell us about that that photo and how that all came together. Yes. When I when I left photography school, I'd learned a lot of the technical skills with portraiture and lighting people's faces. And but I really couldn't be creative. I was just boring, boring things that we're doing. Technically, with the lights and everything, like you're you're learning a lot, but you're not able to take your ideas or your use your imagination to to create images that you wanna create. my parents had bought me a a lighting kit 'cause I was really into using strobes. So and so it was like what am I gonna do, you know, and for my first photograph. And so I just I s I would think, what am I gonna shoot? And this is with any image that I've ever created, I always think about exactly what I wanna shoot before I shoot it. And so I came up with this idea and I'm like, American flag, put a rescue swimmer in front of it. All right, that's what I'm gonna do. So I asked a couple of my buddies if, they wanted to help me out. And, this is something that it would keep me up at night. I would I would think about it. I wouldn't sleep, it's just like imagining how I'm gonna light it and what it's gonna look like and imagining exactly what it's gonna look like. And so we got together and we set up this American flag and so I I ended up hanging my buddy. we dressed him out in his gear and we hung him in front of the flag. And so I'm shooting these these photos, and I had lit the I got the strobes going on the flag and at first I had shot him, he's lit up as well. And I'm like, man, he's look he's look like crap. And so, I'm like, Let's pull him in front of the light so that he's a silhouette. And so we started shooting those and and then I started having reach down like he's reaching down from somebody. So, we're taking I probably took seven hundred photos, and I get all these pictures of him reaching down, reaching down, and my buddy's like, Chris, what if what if I go over there and I reach my hand up while while he's reaching down and I'm like, Yeah, that's a good idea. Like, let's try it. And so he went over there, of course, stuck his hand up and then we shot another two hundred of that with like, Hey man, your fingers, 'cause it all matters. your fingers are too wide and you gotta spread this one, turn your hand. Stop giving the middle finger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one. So and then I shot that, it was cool and you know, I came in the next day and I got it printed and I I showed it to my chief and he's like, Yo, man, he's like, This is super cool and so But I didn't really yeah, to me it was just another picture that I had shot and so I ended up posting it to Facebook and I guess after I posted to Facebook it just started getting shared and shared and shared and this is even this is back in two thousand six. So it wasn't like nowadays this went viral overnight. it's just kinda like it spread and spread and spread and you know, it started appearing, you know, online all over the place and then people were creating products with it that weren't me and you know, all all that went on. So, you know, but I didn't really think that it would latch on, you know, like it like it has. And I mean now it's we're, you know, what are we, twenty years later, you know, and it's still around. So Yeah, why do you think why do you think it became so deeply connected with that with the rescue swimmer community? I mean, I don't even particularly think that it's got to do with the rescue swimmer. I think it symbolizes Just it's a symbol of hope for for everybody, and so it's it's a symbol for one person, helping another. It's a symbol for the victims that are out there or the survivors that are wondering if somebody is gonna come get them. That is that person in that photo that somebody is coming for you. and of course, it's guys or the rescue community, resonate with it because they are that person that's going to do that. I think it kinda, you know what the the survivors and the rescuers, For me it's not, I don't I don't necessarily or particularly think that it's just a rescue swimmer thing. I think it's just a human thing of you know, one person helping another or that person that is in need and you know, that silhouette that that person, whether it's a firefighter or a paramedic or a nurse Or whoever it might be, they're common. Even as even as a firefighter, I I see the significance of it and I think it's it it speaks to the identity of who we are and what we do. I think that's why it it it hits with so many people. Yeah, and that's what I want it to symbolize, and I want every person that's you know, that serves others, whether you're a nurse or a firefighter or a petam paramedic or a police officer or whoever it is, just because it's a rescue swimmer in the picture. I hope that everyone feels that it's for them, because they are that symbol of hope, Yeah. Well and also after this after we're done here, I'm just gonna tell everyone that it was me in the picture in the silhouette. Gosh, sure. Yeah, it's just so you got the you got this picture out here, you're still serving full time, but what inspired you to jump from photographer to entrepreneur and starting the the rescue swimmer shop? so I'd I'd started another I've done many different things, while I've been in the Coast Guard and I had another t shirt business idea back in the day. And I actually I almost got it on Shark Tank. But it wasn't it wasn't family friendly enough for ABC. But you know, Tipsy Elves Tipsy Elves was family friendly. Come on. Come on. So so you know, but I did have that apparel business and like I lost a lot, a lot, a lot of money doing that. So I was like If there is one thing that I will never ever do again, it is apparel. it was just like literally, man. yeah, I was like, nah, like never, ever, never, ever again. And so, you know, here we are. And you know, there was some copyright stuff that went on with it. And once that was done, the attorney was like, Chris, like people are selling your image because it sells. Like you need to do something with this. And so I'm like, like what? She's make t shirts. And was like, Yeah. Nah. no way. never. And so a week went by and the more I thought about it, it was I had seen I had seen the silhouette on a wall, painted on a wall. Like I think it was like Coast Guard Vietnam or something. Like, you know, I was like, this thing is like a you know, across the other side of the world, you know, I'm like, all right, like maybe I should give it a shot. and so I came up with the So Others May Live design and you know, I did a pre order and then, you know, I sold a hundred in a few days and I was like, All right, this works. Let me s invest in this and start a website and inventory and all that and so Well, I think it's cool. obviously it was obviously it was a business, but it's kinda still a way to stay connected to that same community, isn't it? Yeah, it's been pretty cool for all the people that I've met and have reached out to me, whether it's navy or coast guard or pilots or it definitely keeps me involved. it's sold in a couple of the Coast Guard exchanges. So, I'm I'm involved with the Coast Guard exchange. And yeah, it definitely keeps me involved in the community, even though, I'm retired now, that's for sure. And how do you obviously you represent something? Sale, just got a sale. That's pretty cool. That's it, that's cause this right now. That's I need I get a cut of that one. I get a cut of that one. when you're you're growing this business that's that's so tied to to this. This identity, this community, how do you protect that authenticity while trying to grow the business? Nowadays there's so many, military lifestyle brands, and especially with all the print on demand stuff that's going on right now. I mean there's everything's popping up, guys with guns. I mean it's everywhere. You know, like anyone can start a t-shirt company now. you know, I guess for me it's more about about bringing awareness of what we do. It's just there's so many T shirts. and I don't have a problem with like with sixteens and just but there's not so much of the rescue side, you know, and there's so much of that. I I just I hope that, you know, the rescue community, whether you're a nurse, a firefighter, paramedic like that community gets more, you know, representation. So, you know, I don't think it's about, you know, s every Joe Schmo wearing it. It's about the awareness of what the people in the rescue community are doing that these people that are buying these products support it. Yeah. and bring light to, what you do as a firefighter. I do, I'm planning to expand so you will see different stuff, in the future. I want are because are you asking me to stand in front of a flag and buy fire gear? I might. Yeah, I might do it. I might I'll do it. Yeah. Bring your gear over. Yeah, I'll bring it. So, you know, you know, I I hope you know, it's just it's just about awareness of what people do, like people like you do. You know, and and hopefully like, you know, it brings, you know, the younger generation into that rescue community and they wanna, you know, serve others as well. Have you ever heard, you know, from any any of your customers like that the brand represents something bigger than than the T shirt? Like you ever heard feedback from anybody or I mean I guess I came up with Adapt, overcome, survive tagline, which everyone's heard, adapt and overcome. And for me that was something that somebody used to scream on the pool deck, adapt and overcome, adapt, overcome. And so you it's my kids all the time. Yeah, yeah. So But it's like, and so I I thought for a long time about a tagline for the rescue swimmer shop and really when it boiled down to is like survive. And it's like Adapt, overcome, survive. It's like whether you're the survivor, you need to survive, whether the you're the rescuer, you need to s survive. And that can play into your everyday life as a person as well. And so, you know, like really I didn't when I came up with that, I came up, you know, I did an adapt, overcome, survive t shirt. I did get an email from somebody's like, hey, do you have any more of these T shirts? I'm going through cancer right now and that saying really means a lot to me. So, you know, but that's not something that I really I guess realized when I when I came up with it that it would mean so much to somebody. So That's cool. Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. Part of this is kind of like preserving rescue stories and why do you think it's so important to preserve what what people do in rescue? I mean, as far as stories are concerned, I mean, I think it's me personally, I personally don't really talk about rescue stories just because and not because I don't like it or whatever, but I guess for me personally, if if you or anyone is gonna ask me about it, I will tell a story, but it's like I feel like when you're talking about it, it starts to make the story about the rescuer, And to me, it's really about the person that got rescued. It like those people is what it's about. But if I guess as far as the stories and the search and rescue cases and that stuff I think it's super important to talk about within your own community as far as other rescue swimmers and lessons learned. This is what I messed up. Don't do what I did. And obviously I think a lot of the history, I I do think those those stories need to be preserved and where we all came from, the first five rescue swimmers, the first guy to deploy out of an aircraft. And really when I think about that, it's like when I think about that stuff, it's like When you go out or you go out to forty foot seas or whatever, nowadays as a rescue swimmer that you can you can do this. it is possible. Because other people have done it. But it's like when I think back to like these other guys, you know, these first rescue swimmers, you know, it's like and you go out to forty foot seas and nobody's ever done this before. You know, it's like, how about that guy? Like that really blows my mind because you really those guys that left that aircraft, you know, the pilots and the flight mechanic that fly out there. what you're flying into, you don't know if it's possible. now from these stories and moving forward years later, we all know that we're going into something that we can come out of because other people have made it out, But those first people, it's like it blows my mind when I think about 'cause it's go they're going into the unknown, Yeah. I I'm sure there's those are some incredible stories. What what would you if someone, listening wants to become a rescue swimmer, what's your advice for them? I think you need to be passionate about anything that you do. So whether it's photography or whatever, it can't just be something that you kinda want to do or you're like, that's pretty cool. It's like I think really th for me the success in like the things that I've done is I've been passionate about everything that I I do. And so, when I if you want to be a rescue swimmer, it's gotta be it's g it's just gotta be everything that you want and you have to be super passionate about it. You know, and if you are like that, you're just your chances of making it through are just better because you're gonna put the time in, you're gonna love what you're doing, you're gonna wanna work harder to get it. Like it's just something that burns inside you to make it through school, you know? Yeah. So I think just anything that you're gonna do, and especially if you wanna be a rescue swimmer. It's like you got your whole entire heart needs to be in it. So if if it's not, maybe pick another job. that's just my advice. Make sure you're passionate about what you're doing. And years from now, when someone looks back at the silhouette, what do you you what do you hope it represents? I guess the same thing that it represents right now, just I think there's just two sides to it, Yeah. the rescuer and the person getting rescued. I hope for the people that it's getting rescued for. When they look at it, they know, that they're if they're in trouble, there is somebody out there that's gonna come for them no matter what, and for the rescuer when they look at it, know that, this is what I've dedicated my life to is is helping other people. That's cool, man. Well, what's so what's next for rescue shimmer shop? you said you're gonna expand. I mean, what's the how are we gonna take how are you gonna take over the world? this is breaking news right now, but we love breaking news. So I have I have been working on something, for the past six months I've been saying that I'm gonna rebrand the rescue swimmer shops. Yeah, I guess I am breaking news. So I was gonna rebrand everything. It has been I've been super fortunate, it has been very successful. Somebody wrote somebody out there wrote a a comment, Don't don't fix something that's not broken. And so I saw that comment. and when I really took a look after that, I'm like, Man, this has been super successful this year. I'm about to do something really big and I'm gonna flip this upside down. And so what I'm going to do instead of rebrand the rescue swimmer shop is create a new collection. New it's gonna be a premium collection inside the rescue swimmer shop. And this collection is going to feature more of the community. You know, I guess really what it's about and for me is like. The rescue swimmer shop, I want for me, I want everyone to be able to come to the rescue swimmer shop and feel like they belong there. With a name like the rescue swimmer shop, when I think about it, I don't personally feel like, I don't know, everyone would feel welcome there. I want every pilot, I want every fire every firefighter, every nurse. I want everyone that comes to the rescue swimmer shop to feel like they belong there. So with this collection, it's my hope that when people come to this collection. They feel like it's for them and I'm making stuff for for them. So that's what's going on with that. I just you know, it's like I I want this to be and spread as big as it possibly can. Of course. You know, and the symbol's not gonna change, but some other things are gonna change. and I you know, I hope that everyone feels like they're welcome there and and the symbol, even though it is a rescue swimmer, I hope it they feel like, you know, whether you're a firefighter or a paramedic or nurse or Whoever, if you're serving others, I hope people feel that it represents them. Well, I know I do. So yeah, you got you got a friend here and I I know I know others do as well. So you know whoever's listening to this when we put it out. If it's just your dog even, that's fine. You know, just go check out the rescue server shop, man. I mean it's it's cool stuff from a cool guy and it's it's been fun talking to you. I do have a couple rapid fire questions I gotta throw at you though. Send it. What's your favorite aircraft? Any aircraft that lands. Five nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sixty. All right. What your favorite duty station? That's tough. I would say Atlantic City for the people. Like quirky people, or what kind of people are we talking here? that shop is just g we'll go down in history. It's I I'm not gonna get into it, but the people that know no. Operational security, we're gonna shut it down. Yeah, yeah, we'll shut it down. What's the what's the toughest environment you ever had to jump into, sw or swim in? I mean, I don't know what that's tough. I mean Clatsup spit's gonna be right there out in Oregon. Just twenty, twenty five foot breakers. that was training that they put us into that. as far as search and rescue quit cases, my scares have come more from being on ships that are sinking and stuff like that. That's always a bad day. What was your lastly you what was what was your favorite mission memory? Something that stands out to you. Definitely we pulled a guy, a fisherman, out of the water in the Delaware Bay that he had it was New Year's Eve and he had been in the w forty degree water for probably forty five minutes and we pulled him out and brought him to the hospital. And for me that is probably the most memorable just because you know, for us, it takes a long time just to get out somewhere. So, you know, it's like, Okay, you go out to these cases, it's a boat taking on water. Okay. But and sure, you the pilots of flight make care, you guys goes down as a life saved, but it's like it's not really that often that somebody is just on the edge of death like that person was, and you and your crew went out there and just you know that you saved that guy's life. Yeah. He wouldn't have made it. So, you know, just for somebody to be so close to death and see them live like that one was pretty special for me. That's that's cool, man. Well, hey, I I appreciate your time today and thanks for talking to us about rescue swimming, the rescue swimmer shop. We look forward to the to the new setup and man, we'll see you out there. Yeah. Thanks, man. Thank you for having me. I'll yeah, I'll follow up about getting my gear and coming down Yeah, of course. We'll we'll take that picture. Yeah, all expenses pay. We got you down here. We gotcha. We're good. I appreciate it, Chris. Hi brother, thank you for having me on and I enjoy the podcast and I'm sure I'll be up be sharing a lot of your stuff. So thank you. Thank you, sir. As we wrap up, if you found value in today's conversation and want to help us continue bringing these stories, lessons, and training opportunities to the rescue community, consider supporting our mission through the New England Rescue Collaborator Foundation. 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