Annika: Welcome back to Pawplexity a podcast about how living with dogs. Keeps rewriting the way we live, we think and we try to figure things out. One German. Bruce: and cats. Ben: One Brit. Bruce: one American? Annika: three very different dogs and three humans still learning. So we talk about behavior, instincts, mistakes, heartbreak, hilarity, and the complicated and beautiful chaos of sharing your life with a pet. We don't have all the answers, but we are here to explore the questions. I'm Annika, and today we're talking about something that sounds small, but can be all-consuming if not going the way you want: when your dog doesn't eat. We're not talking about illness or emergencies, but about our expectations, the motivation for refusing food, about preferences, about patience, and many other things. here with me to talk about what mealtimes actually looks like in their daily lives. Hi Bruce, hi Ben. Ben: But yeah, how's it going? Bruce: Hi everybody, thanks for listening. Annika: So we talk about food. We all do it several times a day. We fill the bowl. We expect great things. We put it down and then ⁓ sometimes it just nothing And when nothing happens, that moment can really be horribly long. Do you remember the first time your boys didn't eat or did that ever happen in your house? Ben: I don't remember the first time he didn't eat but like I he's done it so many times I think like so many other people out there it's like god what do we you panic because you're like he needs to eat yeah I mean he's don't remember the first time obviously but yeah it is a panic isn't it Annika: Yeah, but you do remember the worry. So yeah, yeah. Ben: ⁓ yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. Bruce: Yes, I remember it was the first time we fed him. He didn't eat and ⁓ Yeah, so and I bought the food that they recommended and I bought a gigantic bag of it and I guess he just didn't like it So I had to start switching him right away and threw out all that food and wasted it But he's always been a very picky eater Annika: So for you, you just answered my next questions. But for Ben, how long did you wait to do something before you realized that it's actually a problem for you or maybe for him? And then long did it take for you to take action? Ben: I don't know. I think at the beginning, sort of like, it's probably my own fault as a puppy. Like when he's scrounging around your feet and you'll give him little bit of salmon off here and there and things like that, he kind of gets an acquired taste. I mean, I switched, in the beginning, I switched from food to food to food and then you'd get bored and then I'd move on to another food, raw. biscuits and then just like endless, ⁓ endless switches and then now he's settled now, he knows what he's going to get, he knows he's going to enjoy it and that's it. If he doesn't eat I know he likes it so it's just a matter of waiting. Annika: How, when you said you switched so many times, how long did you wait until you switched? Was it always like two, three weeks or was it sooner? Ben: Maybe a few days. Yeah. I mean, a few days and he's not eating his food. I'm like, yeah, move on to something else. Yeah. A bit of a nightmare at beginning. Annika: What did you do with all the rest? Because you can't just buy tiny packages of food, can you? Ben: I mean, like, when I lived in Toronto, I lived in a dog-friendly building again, so it was just a case of seeing if friends wanted the food and then just handing it over to them wasn't a waste. It was given away, but yeah. And then other friends would give you other food to try, like try this raw food. He ate the raw food, he ate that for two weeks, and he was like, nope, something else now. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah. Annika: So, yeah. That's it. And for Judge, did he like the food you chose for him immediately or was it a couple of tries? No. Bruce: To be honest with you, I changed his food. I don't even know. I couldn't even tell you all the different brands and everything. I also did the raw diet too. ⁓ I did not like the raw diet because the food just smelled so horrible. Ben: You Bruce: And you know he after he eats he goes to the couch and he rubs his head You know like all all around like it's like it's that's how he wipes his mouth the couches is like towel and ⁓ I I couldn't do I had a I had after he ate the raw food I had to wipe his mouth for him because I Couldn't deal with that smell getting onto the couch so he liked it But then he stopped liking that also it wasn't two weeks But it was probably like three or four months and also if I forgot to thaw it out. It was a problem Ben: Thank Bruce: You know like cuz it comes frozen So that was a headache but really he really started to like the food when we moved to London ⁓ I got him Lily's ⁓ ⁓ loved Lily's so shout out to lilies You know we can't get it over here if you guys want to sponsor us ⁓ Go right ahead Annika: Mm-hmm. Ben: Yeah. Annika: Please. Bruce: Yeah, this is all unpaid. But yeah, he he loved lilies and when we moved back we started shipping it from there But that was kind of a pain because it took Like two or three weeks for it to get over here or longer So if we weren't up to you know date with when we needed his new his food You know it would be we would miss it and have to get him something in between which happened a couple of times And now we're on the farmers dog, which she likes which is basically like people food Ben: Okay. Annika: like the Butter nut box I think. Bruce: So it's like cooked chicken, beef. Yeah, it comes in. It also comes like frozen in like these little bags. So, you know, sometimes I forget, but then I just put it in hot water and it pretty much thaws out pretty quickly. He might have to wait a few minutes, but that stuff he's been eating. Annika: Makenzie now likes, we discovered a new German brand, which is called Fidelis. And it comes, it's freshly cooked food. It's, I think it's human grade and it comes in a glass. So it doesn't come frozen, but it comes in a glass. And now she expects to eat, she only likes things that comes from a glass. So no more plastic for us. Yeah, we had an interesting food journey to be very honest. Bruce: Yes. Yes, that's this. ⁓ nice. Ben: Thanks for watching. Bruce: So no microplastics? Ben: ⁓ really? I was about to say, Kendi's going to be a difficult one. Yeah. Annika: Very similar to yours. So we started switching food. She came with, we were given like a bag of food that she was used to where she grew up. And then she came and we were told to like, as you're told, like to switch it out within 10 days, like increase the other new food that you want to. Bruce: Yeah, he... Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, gradually, yep. Annika: Yeah, and she didn't really like it. And in the beginning it was super difficult. I don't really recall. ⁓ I remember I wanted to cook for her, which I tried once then there was because we were in Seattle, that's super dog friendly. And there was a new food company that were cooking so you could watch them cook your dog's food and they would sell fresh food and she... Bruce: Hmm. Annika: She didn't like it. She liked the shop because she was given a treat every time, like homemade treat every time we walked by, but she didn't like what they cooked. So they had for puppies potatoes and fish and something which smelled really nice. I would eat it. It smelled really nice, but she didn't really like it. and it took us couple of times to figure out that for her her favorite consistency is dry, so kibble, and she doesn't like fresh because I do think she gets her mouth dirty similar to Judge and she doesn't want it to wipe so she doesn't want the food to touch her mouth. So at one point I ended up doing the butternut, the freshly cooked in London, making like tiny little balls, like tiny little meatballs, distribute them along the plate so that if she picks one she doesn't touch the other, set them apart just enough and then she would eat, but it was really not sustainable. Ben: ⁓ my god. Bruce: She is something else. Ben: I wouldn't expect anything less, I wouldn't expect anything less. I knew that, yeah, like, she's just a diva, isn't she? Annika: Very specific. I really don't like that her favorite consistency is kibble. She goes back to kibble every single time. ⁓ But it is what it is. I feel like I give her junk food. Bruce: Well, they make the, they make the like, ⁓ it's- So the thing with the kibble is that they cook it so hot that it basically kills all the nutrients But they do now make it's like they cook it at a lower temperature for a little longer And I was giving that before farmers dog. That's what judge was eating So they still because they actually sometimes do say that the kibble helps clean their teeth So that the kibble is actually good for because yeah, cause they eat it with their teeth and it actually helps clean their teeth ⁓ I don't know ⁓ now. He's just eating that like, you know the the Annika: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, because of the consistency, yeah. Bruce: fresh food so it's not it's not kibble but I do get his teeth cleaned every year he has to go soon for that too what was the it was butter what was the one in London yeah he tried that Annika: the fresh food. It is losing waves. ⁓ butternut? Yeah. Bruce: And he threw up right after he ate that so I never gave it to him again And I only gave him a little bit cuz you know I I've changed his food so many times I know you have to do like little by little you know do like quarter of the bowl the new food and work up to half and then three-quarters and then you finally switch them over And like right after the first time he ate he like threw up. I was like all right. We're not trying that anymore Ben: ⁓ jeez. Annika: Yeah. That's not the best review. Apart from that, only know dogs who really liked it. Bruce: But Farmer's Dog, you're good. You could sponsor us too. Annika: Yes, we take anyone. But you know what, for Makenzie, this like slowly, slowly changing foods that never worked, because she doesn't like, and I don't know how she understands that these are two different kinds of food mixed, even two different kind of kibbles. She's like, no, I'm not eating it if you mix it. She's a bit like Monk. Do you remember the TV series Monk, where you have to have peas and potatoes and everything separate on the plate? Then she eats it. But if you mix anything, or if you put like salmon on top or anything that is not the way it should Bruce: We'll take any one. Yeah. Ben: in the room. Annika: be originally from the package. She's not eating it. It's like no. So in the beginning I would mix and then she would be like no thank you I don't want it. So I would like sort them apart again and then if it's two piles she would eat. It's yeah. Ben: ⁓ my god. She's insane. ⁓ Bruce: That's how I am. don't like my... My grandfather used to tell me, all goes to the same place. And I'm like, I don't want it touching. My wife calls me monk all the time. Annika: It does. You think this is funny? Okay. Well, good to know. What about pasta though? Pasta and sauce? That's fine. Ben: ⁓ hello. Bruce: ⁓ yeah, that's fine. I mean that's if it's supposed to be like together But like if I have like pasta with like you know like spinach. I don't like the pasta sauce getting on the spinach Like if it's a side dish yeah me and Kenzie we get along That's why she likes me Annika: So you and Kenzie cook together. That's one of the many reasons. do you remember, because I feel sometimes that ⁓ swapping foods so fast can create a problem rather than solve it, to be very honest, because I'm always trying to be five steps ahead and to make her as comfortable as I can. So did you ever come across that thought? Bruce: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Because sometimes you don't know like why he's not eating and if you change it too fast, then that could also cause, you know, stomach issues on top of everything. But yeah, he's special too. Right, Judgy? He's looking at me. He knows I'm talking about him. Ben: I yeah, yeah, no, it's that I'm less, I won't change his food nowadays. know, six, seven years, about six, seven years old. So he's, it's now to the point where I know what he likes and what he eats. I'm not going to change his food again. So if he doesn't eat now, I'm like, okay, something's wrong. Right, yeah. I've tried enough. I get, I know, yeah, he's not having to change food anymore. He has nature's diet, I think. I think that's what it's called. Annika: Yeah, you've tried enough to know. Bruce: Mm-hmm. Ben: It's just like rice and chicken in the dish. It's pretty good with that. Bruce: Mm-hmm Yeah, Annika: Mm-hmm. Ben: Are you guys also suckers for ⁓ feeding off your plate? Yeah. Bruce: Yes, Yeah Tatiana does it all the time actually has ⁓ he's got a little bit an upset stomach right because Tatiana gave him food yesterday ⁓ and ⁓ You know, whatever she eats. They have to a piece. She always saves a little bit for them at the end ⁓ So she spoils them Ben: Yeah. Got to. Yeah, usually, yeah, I use exactly that. I usually leave a little bit at the end so he can have a little piece. Annika: ⁓ but you wait until the end until you're done. Ben: ⁓ yeah, yeah, no, I'll wait till I'm done. Yeah, I won't, I won't, it won't share my food with him. I would just have like literally a tiny scrap at the end. So he feels involved. Just mental. Bruce: Yeah, she waits till the end but she's also feeding him the whole way through. I'm actually gonna be cooking for him in a little bit. I'm gonna make him some ground beef to see if he's just being picky or if, you know, something else is going on with him. Ben: ⁓ god, I got it. Annika: You You see that as one of the points, like food can be emotional for dogs as well, not just us humans who stress eat or refuse food or... feel like cravings. think dogs have this, there's research around dogs being emotional around food as well, like refusing to eat when stressed, eating more when stressed. As you said, Bruce, you've been away. So it's not that they are punishing you, but there could be something going on emotionally. So he expresses it through food. One way to express it is not eating or being unhappy enough to not wanting to eat, which is interesting is that it's a thought that Bruce: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annika: I had to learn to think about because I didn't think dogs would be emotional around food. I always thought they were always hungry and they would always eat until Makenzie came. And that was very clear that yes, she's always hungry, but she's not always eating. Bruce: Mm-hmm. Annika: We had one of our worst moments, I want to say, is when she was and she was sick and I called the vet and said, well, she's throwing up, what am I going to do? She's eating. And they said, well, just give her plain yogurt from a spoon and she will like it. And ever since then, she was, let's say... five months, six months old maybe. So ever since that she liked it so much that anything in that consistency like fresh food, like yoghurt, creamy, that is not in kibble form has to come from a spoon now. Which is why we spoon feed her the fresh food. And she eats like a human, and that way she loves to eat fresh food. ⁓ Ben: ⁓ god. Wow. Bruce: Now, a Kenzie or something else. Annika: Yeah, but the thing for her is that, it took me so long to figure this out, I thought she was super picky around food, she didn't like it, she did to be, not to be annoying, but to express something that she didn't know how else to express. And it took me, I wanna say two and a half years or so to figure out that for her, food is connection in the sense that she wants... Ben: Thanks. Annika: not to eat alone, because most dogs they have their bowl across from a wall, so they have like out of the way in the kitchen, wherever in the hallway, and they eat with their face in the bowl against the wall. And she's just, she doesn't like it that way. So for her, I hold the bowl and then she eats from the bowl. So we sit down, I hold the bowl she eats from it or I spoon feed her, but she eats everything I give her when there is connection for her. She's very telling that way, I want to say. But Bruce: That's a good point. I never thought about that. Yeah, his bowl was it's Not necessarily like in the middle of nowhere. It's in the middle of the room, but it is up against the wall So yeah, that does Maybe I'll pull it out from him when I feed him Annika: And it can be stressful because you don't know what's going on behind you. may be movements. So she doesn't like people to walk around. And then whenever she's like ⁓ distracted, she would stop eating from this bowl. I'm like, why? she would be so distracted that she couldn't concentrate on eating. And then I realized, okay, let's turn it around so that her is facing the But that didn't make much of a difference. Bruce: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annika: either. So the holding the bowl really was the moment where she was like, yeah, I'm eating everything you want. And she stopped being difficult around food from that moment. You could say it is difficult that you have to hold the bowl every time you feed her, for me it's like it's five to ten minutes, twice a day. ⁓ Bruce: Mm-hmm. Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Annika: And it's something that where I can build connection with her. So it's the same as taking the time to play or going outside on a walk. So for me, it's not as difficult to do. I actually, kind of like it. feels like maybe it feels like connection for me as well. Yeah. So I kind of like her me time. Ben: Yeah. Bruce: the connection yeah yeah yeah I've done that with him when he was younger I actually fed him out of my hand I would just you know scoop the food up out of the bowl and because they kind of said that that's like a way to actually create a bond Annika: Yeah. We did that as well. then at one point I felt like I have everything. I have like raw salmon, I have cooked chicken, I have everything in my hand. I don't want it in my hand. So I tried holding the bowl just to protect my hands from whatever she wanted to eat. And then I realized it's not even the hand. It's just that you being there and just like eating together. feeding habits changed or eating habits changed since you moved in with the cousins other than being more concentrated? Ben: ⁓ he eats much more now. ⁓ When it's just him the apartment, I can put his food down and he won't touch it until like an hour later. But when it's dinner time here, it's dinner time. And he's, yeah, he's straight away, yeah, he's never not eating his dinner here, so that's good. Annika: so competition can do the trick. Is it the same for Judge, now with the siblings around? Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Bruce: Yeah, so he likes to eat everyone's food and so I have to feed, I have to put Nipsey's food where he can't get it and Max eats separately. yeah, so because I feed them separately, I feel like he doesn't necessarily think he's like under threat by anyone. But if Max is out, Max will run right over to his bowl and start eating his food and then Judge gets angry and he'll growl at him. He'll be like, my food. Annika: Does Max understand yet? I mean he's tiny tiny right? Do they have a... Bruce: You know what? Max doesn't, he's, I think in Max's head, like if I could be in his head, he's just always happy. he'll just jump on Judge and Judge will growl but he doesn't, he just does it again and Judge will like snap at him and he still, he doesn't get the point that Judge is not happy with him. ⁓ I don't know if he doesn't understand it or if he doesn't care or he's just so happy but yeah, he definitely doesn't seem to understand it. Annika: And what does Judge escalate, further Bruce: He's gotten a little, like he's gone after him a couple of times, but that's really what they're supposed to do anyway. Like that's how they learn boundaries, and that's how they do it. Like I learned that from my friend with their Rottweiler when ⁓ he got close. I thought the thing was gonna eat him, but he just growled and then Judge got the hint. Annika: Yeah, it's communication. Yeah. ⁓ Bruce: remember that day I was so scared. ⁓ friend's wife was like, it's okay, ⁓ not gonna do anything, he'll just growl and ⁓ judge will get the point. I was like, what if he eats him? ⁓ Ben: Yeah. you Annika: So but Max doesn't get the point it seems. Bruce: No, he doesn't get the point. Maybe if Judge was bigger, I don't know. Maybe he's not afraid of Judge, I don't know. Annika: Or maybe if they didn't live together, right? Because there's a difference between relationship, like sibling relationship, or a friend that you meet every now and then. ⁓ Ben: Yeah. Bruce: Yes. Yeah, like Max 100 % loves Judge. He cuddles next to him. He always has to be, like whenever they're out together, he's next to Judge. That's his buddy. Annika: That's so cute. Bruce: it is pretty cute. Judge is like, away from me. He's like the angry, older sibling. Annika: But he been an only child for such long time, so must be a lot to digest on his part. Bruce: Yes. Yes. And then all of sudden we got a cat and then a year and a half later a dog and then another cat. So he's like, what's going on over here? Ben: Yeah. Annika: Am I not enough for you? Bruce: Yeah, exactly. Ben: What I was going to say, how do you guys approach treats and stuff? Annika: It's ⁓ let you go ⁓ Ben: Yeah. Bruce: When was younger I used them for training so I didn't give him any outside of training ⁓ But yeah like now ⁓ He possession aggression so when he gets something that he's not supposed to have I still have to save Something for that so we use if I say it he's gonna hear it, but you know dental chews ⁓ Ben: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bruce: So we have those and we call those cupcake kisses. that's like high priority treat. If he has something that he's not supposed to have, I'll say that he'll drop whatever and he comes running the treat cabinet. ⁓ But yeah, I I give them treats here and there. I try not to give them too much because I like them to be for something special. Ben: Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know how bad power is with treats, Annika Bruce: How about you, Annika Annika: Bowie have a treat hierarchy? Because to be fair when Makenzie arrived and we went to puppy school, to puppy play, we had a trainer coming in who was amazing but they all said well the most important thing to determine is the treat hierarchy, the treat pyramid. Like what is the most high value treat and what is the lowest because then you know what use when in a certain stage in training and Makenzie doesn't have a hierarchy. Like one day it's kibble and the next day it's raw fish. Ben: I mean, yeah, no, he has his treats that like, that he'll go absolutely mad for, the big chews, but with like dried meat around them. That's just like absolute, yeah, best one. he's just, if I say treat, ⁓ absolutely anything, he's just ⁓ anything. Like it doesn't matter. He can go into the treat cupboard, he's gonna wait. ⁓ he just. I'd go mad for anything to be honest. Annika: But he always performs, he always does what you expect him for a treat. Yeah. Ben: Oh yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. He'll do what I ask. He'll come back, he'll do anything I want for a treat. Annika: So for Makenzie, it's like, well, I know the treats that you have. So recall is. our worst because we still, she knows exactly what is expected of her but if you don't have what she wants in that moment and you cannot know until you've shown her, which is wrong right? I don't want to blackmail her so it's not like I want to show her the treat and then ask her to do something and then blackmail her into performing but she's the personality that can't even be blackmailed because she likes surprise Ben: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Annika: but she doesn't come back for anything. So she needs to know what you have if on that day, in that moment, it feels like something she wants, she will come back. ⁓ if it's not something she likes, ⁓ will not do anything, anything at all. It's like, and you cannot know until ⁓ try it. ⁓ really, it's the weirdest thing. And I try to explain it to trainers over and over again. It's like, no, no, ⁓ she must have a treat hierarchy. It's very easy to figure out, just pay attention. Like I'm paying attention so much attention. ⁓ Ben: Right. ⁓ my god. Alright. Annika: There is no hierarchy for her. What she really likes is magic. For that she comes back every single time. how do you produce magic in the sense that it's unexpected for her? So throwing water is magical for her. But if she recognizes the bottle after the second wash she's like, no, I know how that works. I know the bottle, I know the spray pattern, I know everything so it's no longer interesting. And if you just take another bottle Bruce: That's Ben: Right, okay. Annika: with a similar shape, it's not interesting. It needs to be something with a different spray pattern entirely. And it cannot be water three days in a row because even then it's boring. Ben: Okay. She's just too smart for her own good, isn't she? Annika: Yeah, and it's, think she, I wouldn't say she's not food motivated, but it's not the most important thing for her. It's like... Ben: Yeah, yeah. Bruce: So she doesn't have like a favorite of anything? Annika: No, because whenever I feel like, now I know it's peanut butter, I try peanut butter for like the easiest things and she's like, no today I don't like peanut butter, thank you. Bruce: So you have to I think you have to find something that she likes but don't give it to her often Just give it to her once in a blue moon Ben: Thank you. ⁓ Annika: I know, but even then... I know, we can try... All of these things, it's like, keep one thing super super special, like Gruyère Cheese, keep it super special, but if that day she doesn't feel like Gruyère Cheese, it doesn't really matter, she will not do anything. It's... For her, it's... I don't know, it's... Ben: That's cool. Bruce: you Ben: ⁓ my god. Bruce: Well, thank God he likes these cupcake kisses things, so... Ben: ⁓ yeah, I mean... Bruce: He'll come for those. with his recall, it was hard in the beginning. He would never, like, we would have to have treats and everything. Sometimes he would come, sometimes he wouldn't. And I remember, like, when Kasia started walking him, I was like, do not let him off the lead. He'll run away. And like, the first day, I see videos of him running around Mudge Chute Park, and then she came back, she's like, his recall is perfect. He came right back when I called him. I'm like, well, not me. Annika: Yeah. Yeah. Bruce: ⁓ I call I have to run after him I have to like You know jump through hoops to get him to come back, but you know other people he just comes running back to Annika: Yes. She's the same. With Kasia she was free all the time in Mud Chute because she would just return. I think it's a bit of a group setting she's more like, I want to stay with the group, I want to play, I want to interact. But also I think Kasia just has this natural authority that she... ⁓ Makenzie respects more maybe in this setting. So I I do think she would choose me. ⁓ Bruce: Mm-hmm. Yeah, our pets don't respect us. Annika: for a home. I think, but I talked about, with Kasia, talked about it because I was so embarrassed that Makenzie would just never listen, not never listen to me. But there was a moment where I felt really embarrassed. I'm like, I'm sorry, Kasia, usually when you're not around, we are a bit better. And she's like, no, it's completely normal because it's the same with children, parents and teachers. Usually children and teachers, they work well together because they have just a different kind of relationship. And kids and parents, dogs and parents, it's just the same. So they have more leeway at home with you as a guardian so it must be that. It's just like there is more love, less, not less expectations but it's a different kind of relationship so she said kindly not to be too embarrassed which I still was but especially because for her everything works like when Kashia's involved everything always works so it's even more embarrassing. Bruce: Mm-hmm. You Ben: It makes sense though, doesn't it? It makes sense that that relationship, when you compare it to kids and their parents, like, you know, it's not a lack of respect, it's kind of a lack of respect, but it's like, know, yeah, it's different kind of respect. They know they can get away with things when they're parents, you know? Yeah. Annika: A different kind of respect, maybe? unfortunately all the time. I do want to say I'm very structured and in theory there's always a plan but the reality is just like love overrides everything and then theory and structure goes out the window. Ben: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably percent. Annika: which is the same at meal time, Because I think most people would say or most trainers would say, do hand feed in the beginning, then once you're all up and running in schedule and routine, don't deviate from it in the sense that don't make a fuss about food, which I think all three of us prove to ⁓ not be the only way to feed. ⁓ So if ⁓ your boys could describe time in your house, what they say about it? Ben: Meal time? Err... That's his favourite part of day, isn't it? Yeah, Definitely his favourite part of the day. He wakes up, he goes down to breakfast... You know, he knows the word breakfast. He knows the word dinner. He knows how they're different. He has two small meals a day rather than one big meal. know some people do... ⁓ I don't know what you guys do. Do you one big meal or two big? Two. Two. Yeah. Annika: Mm-hmm. Isn't. Bruce: You too. Annika: Yeah. Ben: So you know, he loves it. If I'm leaving him with my parents when I'm going up to London or something, my dad is absolute nightmare. dad, honestly, the two dogs he's got, he just treats like absolute kids. And he'll come down, like very cute. This is dad who would never get another dog, but now he's got a German Shepherd and an Labra-Doodle and he's absolutely in love with them. Annika: you So like you and your brothers. Bruce: Uh-uh. Ben: and he would come down and he'd be like, I was cooking myself some minced meat the other day, so I'm gonna have some mince meat and he was like, what are you doing with that? I'm like, I'm just cooking myself. He's like, that's my dogs. Minced meat? He's like, yeah, no, he's filled the fridge with mince meat. He comes down and makes them mince in the morning. I'm like, they don't. Bruce: That's how it always happens. That's what I'm making for judging a little bit. Ben: Like, but I'm just like, yeah, that's fair. Like, we know once it, you know, has a little treat or something, but they don't care at the end of the day, do they? They're just sort of like, it's so wasted. But yeah. Annika: You Ben: But but Bowie has very nice mealtime when he's here. Bruce: Yeah, I think I think it's judges favorite time of year to its favorite time of day Ben: ⁓ yeah, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ 100%. Annika: sweet for both of them. Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Annika: I just realized while you were sharing that, it's like in London she had one big meal in the evening, because that's usually when we would eat in the evening. ⁓ But here, I'm embarrassed say, we now eat at the because it's more comfortable. In the beginning it was because we didn't have a dining table when we moved, and now it's like, just stayed that way. So we eat on the couch. Obviously she's on the couch, so obviously she expects to be included, which is also nice. I feed her, I hold my plate and I hold her plate. She eats from her bowl, I eat from my plate. ⁓ She's eating two meals because we eat two meals with her and she wants to be included. And so whenever we are in Munich in the other apartment, have like a bistro table, so a higher table, and she can't take part in the meal. ⁓ she is really, really upset for not ⁓ being allowed to join us wants be included in the meal time yeah that's how ⁓ Bruce: When I come home with takeaway, he knows it's food in the bag. And he gets all excited, like he's going to eat too. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, this isn't for you. But of course he always gets some from Tatiana. So it is actually probably for him. Ben: Oh yeah, no, don't, yeah. Annika: I just wanted to ask, well, what to do? Ben: I said. No, he's, ⁓ Bowie's been told he needs to, when I took him to the vet the other day for his leg, he's been told he needs to lose a bit of weight as well now, so he's on a bit of a diet. So I've given my parents strict rules because I say to them every time, like, don't feed him, you know, don't give him too many treats and stuff. And then I was like, mum's like, no, no, no, I won't. I walked into the room the other day and mum's giving him a digestive biscuit, human digestive, and I'm like, stop, stop, stop, stop. That's pure butter. Bruce: Yes. Annika: Again, Bruce: ⁓ Yeah, yeah It's funny. It's so with me. It's my it's the in-laws. It's well. It's my father-in-law so he gives Whatever he's eating all the time constantly all day long. He's constantly giving the dog stuff and ⁓ Ben: ⁓ he's loving his life, obviously. Annika: Yeah, of course, of course. Bruce: know, Judge, I don't know if this is the reason, but Judge always had like stomach issues. And they lived with us for a little while. And I think it was just because he was giving him so much stuff all the time that he just always had stomach issues. Cause now he's fine. Like now his stomach issues are gone. He eats normally. So it was probably just ⁓ the amount of, you know, non-dog food that he was getting from my father-in-law. And it's like, I would ask him nicely too. I'd be like, you Annika: Hmm. Bruce: He has like an upset stomach, please don't give him anything. And then on top of it, there's things that they shouldn't have, like garlic and onions if it's in the food. But like, we would have some kind of pasta and it would have garlic and onions in it and he's Judge the noodles. And I'm like, stop, there's garlic, there's onions in it, you're gonna hurt him. But I guess that made Judge stronger. Ben: Yeah. Annika: Yeah. Ben: you Exactly. Yeah. Annika: You In our house, it's Tobias, who's always the weakest link because he loves sharing Italian food. I think the two of them connected over Italian mealtime a lot. Ben: Kenzie probably knows that she'll get stuff from Tobias yeah Annika: Yeah. Bruce: So with us, we call it sucker number one and sucker number two. So Tatiana's sucker number one because she always gives judge stuff. But when she's done eating, it's amazing. He comes running over to me. And so I'm sucker number two because I don't usually give him stuff as much. So he knows to go to Tatiana first. But when she's done, he knows I'm the only other option left. So he comes running over to me. And it's amazing how he knows that. Annika: Yeah. Definitely. Ben: He won't come to me, he'll come to me as a last resort. Yeah, yeah. Straight to my mum and then he just stares at her, intent. Stares, stares, stares. But you've probably seen it, you two guys as well. He'll sit but then he'll lean his head forward slowly, slowly, slowly and put his face forward as if that's going to make a difference. He sits politely though, he waits. But yeah. Bruce: That's the out of his last resort You Annika: Well... Bruce: Yeah. ⁓ Annika: He does. Ben: It's sometimes hard to resist him, isn't it? Bruce: It could be he could be jumping he could be he could be sitting politely it depends It's all different. We have a higher table also, so he can't get anywhere near it and I mean, I don't know if he would get near a regular table either because he's so small but He definitely can't get anywhere near there So he knows he's got to wait for someone to either drop something or give him something So he usually usually waits pretty patiently, but he can get a little antsy especially when I first bring the food over to the table Ben: Yeah, yeah. Bruce: He's jumping at me like trying to get food as I'm walking away. He can even hear the plates, so I'll be cooking And he knows I'm cooking food. He knows there's food around but when I get the plate he starts going crazy because he could hear the point he knows He knows that's what we eat off of and he knows he also he just knows that's when it's ready He's like now the food is ready to be eaten and so he'll start going crazy when he hears the plate like when he hears me Get the plates out of the cabinets. It's amazing how smart they are Ben: Yeah. Annika: Yeah. Ben: ⁓ yeah, yep. Annika: Yeah, because he starts positioning herself on the couch. So she has a little corner of the couch where there's her bed on top. And then whenever somebody is walking towards the kitchen, and it's about like dinner time, which is roughly the same time here, she's like, okay, I'm going to sit nicely on the side of the couch because I know in about 20 minutes food is ready. It's like clockwork for her. Bruce: Ahem. Yeah, I had to stop eating on the couch because of him. Yes, you. He's staring at me. He knows he totally knows I'm talking about him. Ben: Yeah. you Annika: Sorry, So if somebody who's listening is having problems with meal times or difficulties, what would be your advice or your thing to point out to help? Bruce: Yes, let us know in the comments. Annika: No, no, you're asked about advice, so you need to give advice. Bruce, what would be your advice? Yes? At the moment, yes. You now have no advice. No idea? No. Bruce: ⁓ I have to give the advice? I have no advice. I mean, I've done so many different things and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. You know, you gotta find what's good, what works for your dog. you know, right now he's good with his food, but. Ben: Yeah. Bruce: This morning he didn't eat, so who knows? Maybe he's starting to, he has in the past, he's had a habit of liking something for a little while, and then after a few months, he stops liking it. So we might be hitting that point, I don't know. We're gonna find out shortly. He's only been having farmer's dogs since about October. Annika: be about the time, the cycle to come to an end. Bruce: Yeah, this could be. This could be the cycle. don't know. I tried to get him. They offer different kinds of meat, so it's like chicken, beef, and turkey. So I tried to mix it up for him, so at least it tastes a little different, but who knows? Maybe he's getting sick of one of them. I have to figure it out. See, so even for someone with a dog of eight years, there's always something new. Annika: What about you, Ben? Ben: Yeah, I don't know, a dog food your dog likes and if he eats it for the first, if he or she eats it for the first one or two weeks, then that's fine. They if they start not eating it, they will eat it eventually. They won't, they won't love themselves, right? Like, you know, one thing I've Yeah, but like we give in before they get to the point where they want to eat. Bruce: Heh. Annika: Yeah. Yeah. Bruce: I don't know, he goes pretty long without eating sometimes. ⁓ yeah. Annika: You know what? I was given that advice, just like, give her the food you want her to eat because she would eat eventually and for her she can go three days without eating and at that point I stopped the experiment because... and she was a puppy at that stage and like it is a very long time, I don't feel comfortable so I think the emotional impact is on the human first. ⁓ Ben: Yeah, that was a comment. Yeah. 100%. I mean, if it's three days, they're the, yeah, give in. But, you know, if it's like a day, I mean, not even a day, I mean, I mean, the longest I've left it there has been like a full day and he'll eat, go in the evening and be like, yeah, do you know what, I'm hungry now. It's just, want, it's our own fault for, you know, giving them these nice things every now and then from the table, giving them a bit of your food because they're like, I don't want this because I know you're going to have that. Annika: Yeah. The day is fine. Bruce: Exactly. That's the worst thing. So any advice? That would be the advice. Don't give your dogs table scraps. Yeah. And that too. Annika: Yeah. Ben: Yeah. Don't feed off the table. Yeah. Annika: because it can also be unhealthy. But I would ⁓ take it a little further, so include that, but also my point would be, so food also can be this emotional connection, So the food, choose a quality one, try to find out the consistency they like, ⁓ because it can be just because we think freshly cooked is the best consistency, it doesn't mean that they like it. So that is something to look for. And then maybe the setting. something that stresses them. Maybe there's noise, maybe there's the vacuum cleaner going during mealtime, maybe there's too much commotion behind the back. So I would always go to setting, food setting and then emotional connection if you have somebody like Makenzie ⁓ you need to pay attention to that as well. ⁓ that would be my, I think, yeah, my points to point out. Ben: In the voice. Yeah. Bruce: definitely gonna move the bowl I'm gonna try that Annika: Perfect. I'm trying to make ⁓ because doesn't eat off her food station anyway. She drinks the water, but I'm trying to make it prettier with like put a little ⁓ picture frames up and all of these things. Obviously for me, because she doesn't go, she eats ⁓ looking me. I want to make a pretty, pretty area. ⁓ Well, it looks very pretty. I sent you a photo. It's like, why shouldn't she have? Ben: Yeah. Bruce: for him. She's got to have her friends pictures all around while she eats. Annika: Yes, obviously. Yes, well, she drinks because the food again. So I usually kneel down and then I put her bowl on my knees because that is a perfect height for her to eat. So, yeah, but maybe I should wear like t-shirts with her friends' on it. Ben: No. Bruce: Yeah, there you go. Annika: before we go more into these embarrassing habits, ⁓ I wanted to recommend a book ⁓ for episode as well. And this one is called What's a Dog for by John Homans. I do hope I pronounced it correctly. ⁓ So is a historian and a longtime observer of the human-dog relationship. ⁓ And book isn't really about training or behavior fixes. It is, ⁓ let's reflective, humane look what dogs mean in our lives. as we just figured out, it can be ⁓ many, many, many different things to many different peoples. And it's an idea or a view of what we project onto the dog. So it stands out to me because it treats dogs as social mirrors, not as objects of optimization. So it's not about improving your dog, but it's more about what does the dog tell you about yourself. And you really don't need to be a bookworm to enjoy it. It's written really nicely and you will recognize many familiar moments in it. It's a great read for anyone who's ever felt Bruce: Ahem. Annika: like me, puzzled or worried or deeply attached to your dog, which is all three of us, without knowing or really realizing why. So it's a really good book. Go check it out. Let us know what you think about it. And then we'd love to hear from you. gentlemen, what would you like to hear from our audience week? Bruce: Just some of your struggles that you guys have gone with, you know, ⁓ growing pains with your food and, ⁓ you know, how tricky it can be to get your dog happy with their meal time. Ben: Yeah, same. think we've, you know, just this discussion, we've seen how different all of our dogs' habits are. So it'd be really interesting to hear from all of you guys as well. Annika: Lovely, yeah, you can message us wherever you hear this podcast. We are on YouTube, on Instagram, on Substack, ⁓ and wherever you listen to us. So this is Pawplexity and today we talked about when your dog doesn't eat. Bruce and Ben thank you so much for sharing all your stories. We'll be back next time with another everyday moment that turns out to more complicated or easy, depends on who you ask, ⁓ than it looks. It was lovely to talk to you. Thank you, guys. Ben: Cheers guys. Bruce: Bye bye, thank you for listening and remember to pick up after your dog.