Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Hi, and welcome back to the Nutrition Connection Podcast, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristen Hicks Roof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Y'all, I'm super excited to bring on our guests today. I've seen you speak and I can't wait for other people to hear about your journey. You hold some really unique credentials. So we have Carmen Meyer. She is the owner at Meyer Nutrition Communications. Welcome to the show, Carmen.

Karman Meyer: Thanks for having me, Kristen.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So I said you have really unique credentials. You are a dietitian. You're a registered dietitian, a licensed dietitian, but you also are RYT. Can you explain that to the viewers? What is that?

Karman Meyer: Yes, RYT is registered yoga teacher, and I've held that credential now for ⁓ a little over two years. So yeah, it's it's been a fun add-on.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And that's gonna be really cool as we go in and all the things that you do with your know your authors and your books and your speaking engagements. So but let's start from the beginning. What inspired you, Carmen, and made you want to become a nutrition professional?

Karman Meyer: Well, I'll say I feel really lucky that I I knew what I wanted to do. in high school, but I think it even before that, ⁓ it started, yeah, as a young kid. ⁓ I loved cooking with my mom. I was in the kitchen most nights helping her and asking if we could, you know, bake things. ⁓ and then my my grandmother's a a great cook as well. Aunts, uncles, ⁓ my dad's a good cook too. He just didn't do it as much as my mom, but ⁓ yeah, just surrounded by good food, good cooks. and I was in four H. As a young kid, and so I know not everyone is familiar with 4 H, but essentially it is a community club for kids, and there are different projects you can take, everything from like woodworking to sewing to cooking, and the cooking projects were my favorites, and in each ⁓ project booklet, you always studied a little bit about nutrition. At that time, it was the food pyramid. and then like I said, as you went through the the project ⁓ or the booklet, you would do different recipes, you're learning about food science, and then ultimately it kind of concludes with being judged at a state fair. Or actually the county fair, and then if you got, you know, the blue ribbon, you could go to the state fair and you get to show everything that you've learned. So ⁓ I really think that was ⁓ the beginning of establishing my interest in nutrition, combining it with food. And even in high school I worked in food service. I've probably done every job in a kitchen, ⁓ prep cook, service, dishwasher, hostess, like, you know, anything in the restaurant world I I've I've done it. So ⁓ when I went to college I knew that dietetics was was for me.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's awesome. It is so cool to see when people already have that experience and they're like, this is what I want. Like that passion developed super early. And I think 4 H is such a great program for children to get into for many different reasons, but you're understanding the way that agriculture connects to what we do in our everyday. So it reminds me of I wasn't in 4 H, but I remember my home at class where I learned how to sew and cook and learn the food science, you know, and some of these. Homemaking skills, I don't know what what you call it, but like some of these critical skills that I still learn. you know, and I teach my kids a lot too, whether, you know, they come in the kitchen with me. Our kids are in Montessori school and they cook every week. They learn how to sew, they learn how to play music. Like, I think it's just so cool to learn some of those skills and have that appreciation, especially you're almost a leg up compared to many dietitians who go.

Karman Meyer: Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: They don't realize that they want to be a dietitian till college. And that's their first true experience, maybe more in-depth on food science and and culinary skills. And I think that a lot attests too with what you do today. So let's talk about what you do today. You know, let's go through your journey. And now, as you're the owner of your own company, what sort of jobs have you had? ⁓ and then what does your day-to-day look like now?

Karman Meyer: Mm-hmm. Well, definitely a wide range of of jobs I'd say and it ⁓ wasn't you know, I I don't know if anyone really has like a straight path kind of career or maybe in dietetics it it tends to veer off more often. But anyways, ⁓ yeah, I did my undergrad degree at Miami University in Ohio and then I came to Nashville where I still live for my dietetic internship at Vanderbilt. ⁓ and I was so excited to match with Vanderbilt. It was my my top choice ⁓ because I was really attracted to the fact that it wasn't you know a majority of clinical. They had a nice kind of 50-50 split between clinical and that level one trauma center. then ⁓ we had a lot of community management and business rotation. So I I knew ultimately someday I would be more on that side of things rather than ⁓ clinical. And so yeah, it was a great internship program. And after finishing that and of course sitting for the exam, ⁓ I I did start PRN in a hospital working in the intensive care unit. ⁓ That was kind of my favorite part of clinical was intensive care and T PN calculations. ⁓ but then I gotta

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ⁓ that gives me the shivers. That was my absolute worst part. I'm like, no, I need to talk with people.

Karman Meyer: Yeah, it's kind of funny. I mean I I do like talking to people and building that connection, but for some reason in clinical I just I love the science behind it and you know, you kinda get to see some really unique cases there. But ⁓ but then I did get a full-time job ⁓ in long-term care, skilled nursing, which I never thought I would do, but I needed a full-time job. And I I really loved working with that population. ⁓ so I managed a 124-bed facility and I also managed the kitchen. ⁓ I know at the time I was like, why are they giving me this job? It seems like a really big role for someone early in my career. ⁓ and it was, but ⁓ you know, it it doesn't appeal to everyone I I know. And so, anyways, for me, I did love working with that patient population ⁓ because there was the opportunity to connect and get to know people more and and it's actually where my interest in sleep really started. So I was just seeing the impacts of poor sleep and more fragmented sleep, the inconsistent sleep schedules on other areas of health. So that's one of my specialties now, and we'll talk about that more, but that's really where it started for me. And then after ⁓ spending a few years in long-term care, I then moved to behavioral health and went back to Vanderbilt working in their behavioral health hospital. I did some outpatient counseling. Counseling and also manage the food service team there. So I was still kind of in that food service realm. ⁓ And that was definitely another patient population where sleep health, sleep hygiene, ⁓ it was coming up in conversations a lot in that outpatient counseling setting. So yeah, just continued to dive more into some research there and how I could possibly help the people that I. I was I was talking to. But I kind of started getting burned out on food service management. So I completely shifted gears and went to work for our state beef council, which was a super fun job. got me out into the community a lot more. I was talking to consumers and health professionals about the nutritional benefits of beef, how to prepare it, doing a lot more content creation, social media work. ⁓ But it it really got me comfortable talking about some of the controversial topics, like sustainability, cattle care, some of the nutrition misinformation. And one thing I didn't touch on earlier, kind of my interest in nutrition and and my background, my my family farms like we had corn and soy and wheat and raising cattle and so like I had that tie with agriculture. ⁓ and so for me this was a little closer to home as well. And so then I

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And that I feel like that's also tying in your 4 H interest too, right? Because you had that exposure. I always think it's so cool when dietitians are directly connected in agriculture because you don't when you're in the city center, you don't realize what's happening in rural America, right? Like the day to day of farming and agriculture. So that's really cool, actually. I didn't know you worked for so was that Tennessee beef then. Yeah. How cool.

Karman Meyer: Uh-huh. Yes, it was, yeah. Yeah, and you know, having that family background with agriculture, it because it's it's just kinda normal for me, I I do sometimes forget to talk about it or I forget that a lot of people maybe even more so in in our field in dietetics that they don't always have that background. So I forget to mention it sometimes. But it's an important piece of of my story and and and how things kind of I think ⁓ transpired. But when I was at the Beef Council, I kind of talked about what I was doing in that role, but outside of that, I was doing some freelance work and I was doing recipe development for my own website, the nutritionadventure.com. That was my blog. ⁓ It still still is my blog. And then doing recipe creation for other brands and writing for other outlets. So I was really leaning more into that nutrition communications side of things during that phase. Started doing more TV segments, which was super fun. ⁓ but that writing and content creation is ultimately what led to a publisher reaching out to me to ask if I would write a book on the topic of nutrition for better sleep. They had found some articles I'd written on that topic, and I'm really grateful that they thought that there needed to be a book on it, and they they came to me. So ⁓ that's when the book came about and In 2018, 2019 is when it was published. And after about six years at the Beef Council, I then shifted into a wellness director role at a nonprofit. It was a health clinic that provided primary care to uninsured and underinsured individuals here in Tennessee. And There I helped manage our teaching garden. I led cooking classes. We had all kinds of wellness events and programs that we were doing. And I got to work one on one with patients again, which I I did miss that a lot. ⁓ I learned a lot about grant writing in that role. ⁓ but it it was really nice to have that deeper connection with with patients again. And because it was such a unique setting, ⁓ we we really provided more comprehensive care to individuals. Like we offered yoga as part of our wellness program. and so we were really about just making sure people were being treated more holistically, not just that primary care service, ⁓ which for that population Generally, if if you're either uninsured or underinsured, you probably have to skip the primary medical care altogether. So it was a a really great place to be before I then transitioned into self-employment.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Wow, and you're right. You have had quite a zigzag of roles. ⁓ but it seems like everyone almost lended itself to the next one. So as you were exploring while you held a full-time job and you were starting to do some writing engagements and your own blog, like w did you get any mentorship or guidance to do that? Or how did you start to lend into that field? Because I think a lot of people they say, ⁓ I want to open my own private practice or open my own communications consulting. But they don't realize that there's a bunch of little steps in between, right? That you are able to culminate the experiences to ultimately then go out on your own. So I would love for you to like dive in a little bit to that.

Karman Meyer: Yeah, there there's so many people that have ⁓ mentored me and and made an impact in my career, you know, way too many to even mention, I'm sure, but ⁓ Kim Gallias is is one who in college I worked with her and she worked in nutrition communications and a lot of times more with commodity organizations. So that's where I first learned that dietitians could do that. and she's in the Indianapolis area. So ⁓ she was one of my early, early mentors. And then, you know, in my career, being involved in nutrition entrepreneurs and just being a part of some of those conversations, hearing what worked or what didn't work for some people. While I may not have been doing that at the time full time, like it's still knowledge that I was learning, saving away for later, ⁓ and also being a part of food and culinary professionals that connected me with people who shared a lot of common interests there. in in the blogging world, ⁓ of course I started my blog in like 2012. So those were early days for blogging and for dietitians, you know, an even smaller community, but Reagan Jones and Deanna Seagrave, sh they also started a recipe redux, ⁓ was what it was called. And that was such a great way to learn from other people who were

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah.

Karman Meyer: Trying to blog, write more, the recipe development, food photography, all the behind the scenes stuff that comes with a website. I mean, there's just so much that you honestly have to just do it in order to learn, but having that network was huge.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I like how you talked about you gave several really good examples of sometimes you're just absorbing information too. You know, I think the DPGs are a great resource for that. And I know a lot of people are not academy members, but to me, the DPGs has always been worth being an Academy member, regardless of your viewpoint. The DPGs offer a lot of, you know, thought leadership and discussions about different aspects of food and culinary and communications. But there's so many different DPGs out there. So I li I think that was a good shout out because that's actually how I got deeper and deeper into my career in academia of educating health professionals. I was sitting on the NEHP board and I was like, wow, there's a whole group of people who are doing exactly what I'm doing and want to continue to do. and so sometimes having that like-minded person can really go a long way. So let's talk a little bit about what you do in your current role. And I would love for you to talk about

Karman Meyer: Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: The sleep work, because that's the presentation that I've seen. I've seen one of your presentations on sleep. And I mean, I love my sleep. I've never been that like all nighter college studier. Like right now, I think I'm in bed at eight o'clock, maybe nine. I wake up at five to to go walk eight. And so it's like sleep is so powerful that I know when I had young kids and I was super disrupted sleep, and I still am because my kids are still small. It just changes everything. I mean, my brain does not function. I'm craving worse foods. Like, I think there's so much integration with that. So yeah, let's talk about your day to day and then some of the sleep and yoga work that you integrate in there.

Karman Meyer: Yeah, well I'm totally with you as far as like in college. I d I didn't do all nighters, like I I physically couldn't. And I think I well, now I definitely know in regards to sleep research that you're better off like just just get the sleep. It it will serve you better. But ⁓ yeah, so I started my ⁓ or went full self employed three years ago. ⁓ and it was something that I always felt pulled towards. It was just hard to kind of make that leap initially, but you said I was just kind of gathering all the knowledge and the experience and then when I felt ready I I I went for it finally. but all of those previous full time jobs in any work experience, it it still comes into play and supports what I do now, ⁓ which primarily consists of communicating about the important role of nutrition and sleep health in leading culinary nutrition events to help bring the nutrition science into the kitchen. so with sleep health, because I have the book ⁓ called Eat to Sleep. And so I do a lot of speaking engagements for dietitians primarily so that hopefully we as a profession will start including that in the conversation because sleep is so important. When we're talking to someone who is sleep deprived, it's gonna be really hard for them to actually Pay attention, listen, and then at night when they're trying to sleep, but maybe they can't, that's when memory consolidation happens. Well, they're not able to then take that information that they may have heard from you and consolidate it, really make it a memory that lasts. So they're not gonna then be able to have that behavior change that we're so we want them to have. So that's just one reason for a dietitian why we at least need to know if the people we're speaking to are are sleeping well so that they can hopefully learn from us. And as you said, when you don't sleep well you make different food choices. Research shows us that Yeah, that's what happens. We start to crave saltier foods, sweeter foods, those more calorie-dense things rather than nutrient dense foods. So it just changes what we want to eat, how much we eat. And then in other areas of health, it's impacting our insulin resistance. It's impacting heart health, immune health, of course, mental health. So really sleep is the foundation of good health. Like of course I love nutrition and I love food and I believe in its importance, but at the base there we have to have good sleep because you can't like out eat or outnutrition poor sleep. ⁓

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, I think it's a really good point. And I'm sure anyone who has young kids can attest to the sheer sleep deprivation you go to for years on end and how it really does transform your work days and your irritability and right, like there's so many systems that you come in play. And I love Carmen how you're talking about it's taking science but also putting it into translational bytes for people to be able to understand because

Karman Meyer: Right.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I remember when I was working as clinical dietitian, you know, sometimes you talk with someone and they're in pain, they just had surgery, they didn't sleep well and like, yeah, of course they can't consolidate the the advice into concrete memories to be able to integrate that behavior change. So I thought that was a really good example.

Karman Meyer: Yeah, it it it applies to the people we're working with and it applies to ourselves as well, right? So giving ourselves a little bit of grace or at least knowing that, ⁓ yeah, you haven't been sleeping well, it's having an impact in your day. And so, ⁓ because until we acknowledge that, kinda know that, then we can't do anything about it. So that that's always the first step, right?

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah. Well, and so how do you take this science? You know, as dieticians, we are nutrition experts, but we also are evidence-based providers. So how do you take the science and how does that impact your day-to-day in your business?

Karman Meyer: Well, I I do wish I could be better at sharing a lot of stuff on social media because a lot of people are are turning to social media for all kinds of information. but it's really, you know, the wild west of wellness trends and and just flat out mis misinformation, but ultimately it it still always comes back to science for us as dietitians. That's the ultimate filter. If we don't have the evidence to support it, then we we aren't going to share otherwise. That that's what it comes back to for us. So I really think for those who love social media in this field, like they they should definitely share what they can there with the people who are listening. I I do some, I trickle it out every once in a while. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah, the science ultimately helps weed out the things that are are fads and the things that work long term.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: When how does it come into play too as, you know, you're a nutrition communicator, whether that's with a brand or wellness initiatives or any sort of group that you're working with as, you know, you own your own company. So how does that come into play the science?

Karman Meyer: Right, so I do more of my work with groups. ⁓ whether it's a culinary nutrition event for a company or a community group, ⁓ different organizations, that's where I'm using my ⁓ nutrition communication skills and translating that that science into like what's on our plate. And You know, I think that's always the most rewarding moments is when I'm teaching a a culinary nutrition class and we're we are talking about foods for better sleep and someone just says, Wow, I had no idea like that avocado had magnesium and magnesium is important for good sleep. So I've been taking this magnesium supplement, but maybe I could just eat some more avocado and leafy greens or and Nuts and seeds, things that taste good and make you happy, rather than spending money on on a supplement or something. So that always makes me just feel like, yes, I did my job today, someone learned something new and it makes them feel better and we're adding rather than taking away all the time. So except that's where

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I love that. I love that example too of avocados because literally yesterday I was in an appointment with my physical therapist and you know, he's not a dietitian, but he's interested in nutrition. And so he was asking me all these questions like, Well, what do you think about seed oils? And what do you think about ⁓ these certain supplements? And I'm like, if we actually like move that into real food, like no matter what oil you use, it's still a French fry and it's still fat. From an oil, whatever oil you might use, right? So I'm like, but it's hard to disaggregate in the research of is it the potato for the French fry or is it the oil for the French fry? I mean, and this is just one example. There's many ways to extrapolate this on many other examples. But I was like telling him, because he was asking about magnesium. He's like, Yeah, that's something I take every day. I'm like, but there's also ways that you can eat food and you don't need to spend all this money on like

Karman Meyer: Mm-hmm.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ten thousand different supplements that you're taking like a whole handful of supplements and pills when you can get it from food. So I think that is really cool how you're taking that and like translating to like, ⁓ you don't need that.

Karman Meyer: Right. There's the nutrition piece too, like we just talked about. And then there's also the just culinary piece, right? Like, well I don't know how to cut the avocado or I I buy avocados and then they go bad or, you know, they're too hard. Like, how do I pick one? And that's really the part that I think A lot of people might know what they should eat more of generally, but then it's like, well, but what do I do with it? How do I ⁓ make sure that I'm not wasting it? And so those are all great questions and that's where that culinary piece just helps them to see like, ⁓ okay, I can do that. And and then they can eat more to myself.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah. Yeah. It's bringing science into practical application. So yeah, I think there's a lot of different ways you can do that. I used to love Costco, used to have this massive bag of frozen avocado. I was like, this is so easy because you could throw it in smoothies, you could throw it in a baker, you could, you know, lay it out and put it on a sandwich spread or whatever. I don't know. I don't have Costco anymore. I'm trying to save money. So maybe one day, maybe one day when I'm back at Costco.

Karman Meyer: I haven't seen that.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So Garvin, what's been your favorite or something you're most proud of so far in your career as you've had such a a diverse career in in many different roles?

Karman Meyer: Well, ⁓ you know, I mentioned that the part that makes me, I guess, feel like I'm doing a good job is really just when someone tells me that they feel like they can now implement what they learned in their life. Because ultimately that that's why I think I really love this field is that it's helping someone. Food is my love language, so that's how I try to help people. And so that just makes me feel really great about the work that we're able to do. ⁓ I guess on a I guess bigger picture, I'm I'm really proud of some of the chances I've taken and just putting myself out there as much as I'm comfortable with or, you know, a little bit of discomfort is okay. But You know, one thing that Toby Amador, she she brings this up often to me, ⁓ and she mentioned it recently at a conference, she was like, What was that thing that you did during Covid? And ⁓ it was an Airbnb experience. So I would I Pretty sure I was the only dietitian offering virtual Airbnb experiences during that time when everything went online. And that was really how I started in virtual cooking classes. And I was doing cooking events with people from around the globe. And I I will always just remember like I just decided to do that. You know, I didn't ⁓

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That is so cool. It brings me back to the COVID days. Yeah. I was like, I need human engagement. I mean, I am driven by social. I'm a social creature. And so we started like a trivia Tuesdays. And so we would have we would have family members and friends join on Trivia Tuesdays. But what a smart idea to really capitalize on the opportunity, but also showcase like you had all the skills and then you were able to implement it in real time. How cool.

Karman Meyer: Yeah, and some of its timing, you know, I was they were in person experiences initially, so that's what I was planning towards and then obviously it all went ⁓ virtual. So just kind of like I said, being open to different things, looking in different areas, you have to get outside of of your box sometimes and said, just just try things. It's not all gonna work, but it's probably not all going to be a complete failure either. You can take pieces and just build on it and I said, dream up something new.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So you talked a little bit about some tips and advice. Try something new, you know, get out of your comfort zone. What would you say for people who maybe have tried it and they failed and they don't know they don't want to try again because they're nervous or they're ⁓ you know, afraid to fail again. So what kind of tips or advice would you give for those people?

Karman Meyer: Well I will say that I still get that feeling sometimes, you know, when there's a new project that like I I know I feel really excited about, but it's really hard to just put it out there because if you don't get, you know, a hundred people knocking on your door or signing up for your new membership, it can feel you know, you can feel lots of things. ⁓ so it's very hard to do. But Again, if you feel really strongly about it, and maybe you've also talked to some other colleagues and said, like, do you think this is a good idea? Do you think it's something that's needed? ⁓ joining those DPGs to to get some feelers out and like I said, get some feedback, ⁓ then you just have to go for it. And like I said, the first iteration may not be perfect it probably will not be perfect ⁓ so expecting that or knowing that and then it's going to change and it's all just kind of a feedback loop of like okay tried this maybe it didn't work super well I'll change something here ⁓ it's all just part of the process

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I think it's so hard as many dietitians are type A like myself, and probably you, I don't know. ⁓ based on what you're saying, I think you would be kind of a c a type A. And so sometimes that is really hard because we have expectations that are here. Like you're right, like I'm gonna convert into a hundred leads into, you know, new new business or whatever. And so sometimes it's like, what other benefits have you learned from that experience? And maybe it opened a door to the next job or to the next

Karman Meyer: Mm-hmm.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: client that you land or whatever. So sometimes you just got to put yourself out there and yeah, you learn as you go along the way and you modify. I know I do that a lot in my own ⁓ work too. Like when I first started the podcast, I didn't have a microphone. Then I started listening. I'm like, wow, this doesn't really sound good. I'm like, I should probably get a microphone, right? Here I am lunching a podcast and you just, yeah, you just learn as you go through. so my favorite question, Carmen, if you had a crystal ball, What do you think is coming next to nutrition?

Karman Meyer: Well, in regards to the areas I really focus in, starting with sleep health, that's one that even in twenty nineteen, I when the book was published, I don't think many people were considering the role that nutrition could have in sleep. But over the last gosh, almost seven years now, ⁓ I've really seen that shift and more conversation around nutrition, how it can impact sleep, the foods that we could include more of to improve sleep. And like I said, it is just one part of the puzzle. So I'm not going to pretend like, you know, eat these foods and there you go, you're sleeping like a baby. But it's an important piece. ⁓ and for s for some people For people who are sleep deprived, I should say, if telling them that certain foods, which are are good for us foods, nutrient-dense foods, if we could eat more of them and sleep better, they'll they'll listen to you. That could be the way in to help them create that behavior change. So I do think in regards to nutrition, we're gonna see more on the topic of sleep and how it fits into the whole ⁓ of the comprehensive approach to better health. And then from a culinary standpoint, ⁓ you know, I am happy to see that there's more conversation around culinary medicine, food as medicine, culinary nutrition. ⁓ And other healthcare professionals are paying more attention to it. So I I think that dietitians are definitely well suited to be front and center of that conversation, ⁓ and viewed by the whole healthcare community and the public as the nutrition experts that we are. So I really see more preventative programs that are focused on culinary nutrition and culinary medicine being integrated into the healthcare setting.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I think your first example was sleep. I mean, look at those aura rings. I mean, so many people, it's like, I think now you're able to capture your sleep data, which I know there's some people who are like early adopters, they love that technology. They bought it first generation. But now you're seeing more of these health technologies come into play. And so that way they can almost validate, right? Too, Carmen, of if they're eating some of these foods or if they're getting more of certain key nutrients. from foods and or supplements, or however they want to go about it. If they are getting that and they are sleeping better, then now you almost have this like case, right? Because sometimes people they aren't moved by just be like, this is a an idea, because there's so many ideas on social media and what foods are good and bad for this and that and that and that. So I think with the aura rings now as dieticians and health professionals, we can almost say, hey Let's look at your aura ring data. Let's look at information to see are you sleeping better? And if you are, what are things that are attributing that? Is it, you know, reducing screen time? Like I think there's this whole behavioral health and nutrition as one piece of the puzzle. I liked how you said that. ⁓ and I think that's where you'll also see colon culinary medicine come into play of food and health tech can help with dietitians integrating all of those and across the health. ⁓ the healthcare team too. So I I think that's really interesting. I don't know if you have any more to say on that.

Karman Meyer: Yes, I think ⁓ the the health tech and things that can monitor sleep for some people that is that is highly motivating and it's valuable and the information can be there. ⁓ I do always give that caveat of for people who kind of maybe pay too much attention and give a little too much control over the the sleep process even. It's like we try to control it when it's like, well it's a natural thing that should just be happening. So at some point we kinda have to let it be what it is. But ⁓ yeah, it's a delicate balance. But yes, I think the growth and health ⁓ sleep tech, I mean there's mattresses, there's pillows, there's all the wearables, ⁓ it's not gonna go a away. anytime soon and so they can they can be valuable tools.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, well, and I think there's gonna be so many more health tech technologies coming to market. I mean, with AI and just like this mass data of saying, Hey, here's things that will help you get better blu blood glucose control or better sleep or better decision making. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see the role of the dietitian in these. And I think you're fortunate of that was just so happened to be your passion years ago, and now you're starting to see the excitement and movement. And I think that's For me, I've been so excited to see this food is medicine movement and nutrition as part of the healthcare team because that's what I've been working on the last, you know, 10, 15 years. So it's cool when you were part of that like really early. And now it's like, all right, this is a big thing. I'm like, yeah, let's jump on it. This is super cool. Well, Carmen, thank you so much for being on the show and telling your story and inspiring people to maybe take that leap of faith and be able to go. ⁓ and do nutrition communications or your or your own practice. So if you like the show, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring on a different dietitian and nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.