Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Welcome back to the Nutrition Connection Podcast, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin Hicks-Roof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I get to sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Y'all, I am so excited to bring on a brand new guest. His name is Sam Kramer. He's the CEO and co-founder of ProSo LLC. Welcome to the show, Sam.

Sam Kramer: Hey, Kristen, great to have me. Thanks for lining this up. I'm really excited to be here.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So I know that you submitted application to be on the show and I was so excited because I love when there's dieticians out there who have this really niche space. And the fact that you launched your own protein soda, we're gonna get super into it, but how cool. It just goes to show what all we can do with those credentials. And there's many more credentials behind your name and we're gonna talk about that. But let's start from the beginning, Sam.

Sam Kramer: I'm

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: What inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional in the first place?

Sam Kramer: Yeah, that's a great question. growing up, my family had always been into health and I actually started in college as a finance and Spanish double major and ⁓ was not really enjoying it. And I was kind of thinking, okay, what do I really like? And I was like, well, I like food. Let's just switch majors to nutrition and not realizing that it's basically pre-med. And I was awful at science. And growing up as a kid in high school, I was more of a history and language and social studies. I was like, well, better get good at these classes really quickly. ⁓ as I went through the nutrition courses, I kind of fell in love with it because I was like, ⁓ it's like, I can apply all these relatively abstract concepts of science to the body and how we break down and utilize food, which I found super fascinating. ⁓ so that kind of just set the path there. And I was a rower in undergrad at Rutgers. ⁓ And at the time, Sports nutrition was kind of the budding field. There was only a couple of teams that had dietitians and schools that offered programs. So was like, okay, let's dive into that niche and maybe I'll become a rowing dietitian or something like that. And so I did my master's and my dietetic internship at Florida State, go nulls. And throughout my experiences there, my path just shifted and shaped over time. ⁓ decided I really didn't want to be a traditional dietitian and I found the industry of creating products. And after that, I was working on my PhD and then I left early for that and started working in the industry and it's been about a decade since I've started.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Wow, what a journey and we are gonna unpack this. love that you're non-traditional, because I do think, again, there's so many different areas. I actually also started in sports nutrition. I was ⁓ a soccer player in college and I was like, I know that there's this direct connection from my classes that what I eat impacts my performance. So I always thought I was also gonna go down that path. then I taught a class when I was in my PhD program, I was like... Maybe I actually like educating people. Maybe I don't want to be a sports nutrition. So I do think sometimes you will learn your career path as you go through what you like and don't like. ⁓ And so I want to, let's dive a little bit deeper. So you were in sports and then you started a PhD program, which is not easy. Talk to me about that experience of going that direction. And then it sounds like you pivoted gears a little bit. Can you walk us through that story?

Sam Kramer: Yeah, it was hard. Yeah, sure. So when I was in my master's and my dietetic internship at FSU, ⁓ I was still kind of unsure of what I wanted to do. I didn't have great experiences in my rotation. So I was kind of lost. I was like, well, I don't want to be a traditional dietitian in the clinical side. And now I don't want to be a sports dietitian. So what's kind of the next path? And I got the really fortunate opportunity of ⁓ deferring some of my rotations and moving to Texas for a little bit, where I worked in a lab. that made protein and pre-workout. And I was like, whoa, this is mind blowing. I didn't even know you could do this where you're combining food science and nutrition science and ⁓ process improvement and all these like unique things that dieticians sort of lend a hand but not as director learned in school. And so I was thinking of like, how do I become this unicorn? And the chief science officer at the time was also a PhD RD and he was like, go and get your doctorates a couple more years. You'll be a male dietician with a terminal degree. You'll be a unicorn. You can do whatever you want." And I was like, okay. So I was working on my doctorate and for me, it kind of felt like a means to an end where I was like, I don't want to be an academic from a research perspective. I love teaching kind of like you where it's like, loved being in the classroom and teaching glycolysis and metabolism and sports nutrition and all these cool things. But didn't really want to do that full time. So ⁓ one day I was just looking at jobs on LinkedIn and I found a company in South Florida needed a research and development dietitian in the supplement industry. And I was like, well, let's apply and see what happens and worse comes to worse. I'm still in a ⁓ great program and I can continue on and maybe go back and forth. So I applied and I did like three rounds of interviews and got the job. And I was like, well, it's in South Florida in paradise. It's what I want to do. And the PhD will always be there if I want to go back. So took the leap and still haven't finished it a decade later, but ⁓ it's been a wild journey since then in the industry.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And a lot of what you talk about is there's things that open doors to opportunities, right? Like you didn't even know that that was a potential career field in R &D in the supplement industry. And so sometimes we have to almost take that chance and it may not be the best fit for us, or it may have opened a door to another opportunity. think some people, may feel stuck like, I got this new role and I don't really like it. But like, how can you use that new role to then leverage where you do want to go? Which for you was in.

Sam Kramer: I'm gonna end. Exactly.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: you know, the supplement industry. So let's talk about your career. You've had 10 years in the supplement industry, which is super niche. I've had a few people on my show in supplements, but then you ended up creating your own protein soda and you said you just launched a few months ago. So walk me through that. What kind of jobs did you have in the supplement industry? How did your expertise as a nutrition professional play a key role in that? And then how did you ultimately transition to founding your own company?

Sam Kramer: Yeah. Yeah, great, great question. ⁓ So, dropping out of my PhD and starting a job, so moved to South Florida, worked for a company called Vitacost. They're owned by Kroger and they're ⁓ their own line of dietary supplements. And so that's where I really learned like, how does a product go from an idea in your head to in the case of Vitacost being online to the online shelf? So very fortunate in the case where A lot of the times when somebody formulates something, you do the recipe and then you kind of never see it again until it's on the shelf and you're like, ⁓ I didn't even know that this was launching. unfortunately, in that role, I was doing everything from start to finish. So not only the recipe creation, but the claim of substantiation, the quality of the regulatory, talking to suppliers, ⁓ doing all of the label compliance, doing the costing and the financials. presenting to internal and external stakeholders, so getting that face time and that ⁓ comfortability. ⁓ And so really just having a very holistic opportunity to kind of carve my path in what I wanted to do. fortunately had a manager who I've connected with since then, even in my current role ⁓ that supported that. So I think a part of it is like, Like you said, having these really cool experiences, but then also finding people that are advocates for you that want to support you in what you want to do. So after VitaCost, I was there for a couple of years, left for a company that was Amazon related. They went bankrupt. So I was out of a job for the first time, went back to VitaCost because I was still living there. And then after a couple, about a half a year, I wanted to try something different. So I moved to the Kroger Health Team and I moved to Cincinnati where Kroger is based. And that's where I was using my actual RD background ⁓ where I was making meal kits and personalized nutrition and kind of like corporate dietitian type role. And I was doing that for about a year and then I really missed the product development side of things. So my boss, who was my boss at Vitacost, came to me and was at a company called IVC, International Vitamin Corporation, who's a manufacturer of dietary supplements. And ⁓ he was like, if you want to come work for me, can move to South Carolina. So I made the jump again. And that's where I'm based now in Greenville. And so with IBC for about six years. And that's cool because that's now the manufacturing side of things, which is a whole different beast than being on the retail because now our customers are like the big store brands that I was working for before. ⁓ So similar. awesome experience of now touching these products from conception to launch and being involved in everything and now being like the owner of those to present to, you know, VPs of the Walmart's of the world and Costco and all that kind of stuff. kind of just making me more comfortable in those public speaking places. then, yeah. Sure.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: when, how did, I want to pause you for a second. Many of those skills you do not learn in a dietetics curriculum. So how did you feel like the comfort and the confidence to be able to go into those roles or were you just, hey, I'm a really good on the spot learner, like take a chance on me, kind of for the listeners who say, man, I would love a career like that. Like, how did you make that pivot into that niche?

Sam Kramer: No, no, Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a couple of things. think ⁓ a lot of it is being humble and willing to learn. And, you know, if you don't know something like just asking, I don't know how to do this. Can you teach me? ⁓ And then a part of it, I think is being a dietitian is very rare in the industry. ⁓ And so the lens in which we think of product innovation is very different and unique than I would say, you know, more traditional, perhaps somebody with like a chemistry background or marketing, you we're looking at it from a holistic clinical approach of, okay, somebody wants to take a multivitamin, but what else are they potentially taking? Or what are those, you know, co-supplements that they are taking? So we have to look at doses and think of the physiology. So I think being a dietitian in this world is very ⁓ job secure because there aren't that many of us and that lends itself to being, you know, having a unique perspective.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah. Well, and you talked about how you had, you wore so many different hats, right? Especially at the first company and even on the second company, like you're always, you have to really want to be a continuous learner because you take the science, but then how does that look in creating a product that people are actually gonna buy that makes sense, right? Whether it's dosage and then also having your scientific and health and nutrition expertise to say, how do we market this?

Sam Kramer: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Is this compliant with FDA? What kind of regulatory claims can we put on that, right? So I agree with you. think nutrition professionals are such at this unique crux that can lend such unique expertise because if you're just a marketer, you're like, we're going to say this and this and this. And you're like, wait a minute, actually, we can't say that. Here's what we can say based on the literature. okay, so you're in the supplement space. How did you?

Sam Kramer: Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: transition into PROSO and then give us all the details. What is PROSO? mean protein is hot everywhere. So it's a good time. Good time to be there.

Sam Kramer: Yeah, it sure is. Yeah. Yeah. So late 2025, I was kind of thinking, okay, how I'm sorry, 2024. You know, I was kind of just thinking, okay, New Year's is coming up. It's going to be 2025. Like, I want to do something for myself. And is that personal, professional kind of make a big splash and I think I was drinking, if you ever had like the Zevia sodas where it's just, you know, just stevia with some flavoring. was like, I really like these, but like, I've never, man, I've never seen protein in a soda before. And thinking like, okay, like I'm, I'm, I've transitioned out of rowing and now I'm an ultra runner. So, you know, I'm thinking, okay, how am I going to get nutrients where I don't want to like sacrifice calories for meals, but I want something like a kind of a snack and tastes good. So that just kind of got the ball rolling and A lot of it's just asking questions. It's, okay, I need to develop this recipe. Like, how do I do that? And then it's just a lot of Googling. And I think also having the industry experience, like I kind of did have a leg up because like I understand operationally how it works. ⁓ But what I didn't understand is like more of the, I would say like the CEO responsibilities of finances and budgeting and ⁓ And a lot of it's making mistakes. know, like it's like, okay, now I know that I need to be hyper specific in this request or it's not. I have tons of stories that we could talk about of mistakes that I've made because that's part of the learning process. But yeah, so in, in 2025, it was, you know, I had this idea. How do I make it happen? So I just started reaching out to commercial development firms. basically like companies that will, develop formulas on your behalf, which is great because ⁓ it's more expensive upfront, but on the plus side, own, like I as the brand owner own all the IP. ⁓ Whereas a lot of the times if you go directly to the manufacturer, they'll say, yeah, we'll do this for a low cost, but on the back end, they say, wait a second, we made this for you. We actually own the IP and now you have to buy it back from us. So, yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Wow, that's so jacked!

Sam Kramer: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a there's a really cool ⁓ organization called Startup CPG that is basically like this huge repository of they have podcasts, they have database resources that basically like they have a Slack channel. can ask questions like it's just like this like conglomerate of entrepreneurs in the in the CPG world, which is like food and beverage essentially that help you navigate all the trials and tribulations because they've all done it before. So it was a lot of, and they have like events where you can pitch to buyers and you apply and they have awards. So it's a really, really cool organization. So being involved in that kind of helped get the ball rolling. So, so let's say we're in mid 2025 and I've got samples. So I've like tasted proso. It's in just like a nondescript can and you know, oh, it's, it's not bubbly enough. It's sour. You know, we got to do some tweaks and um, my best friend here. So we perform improv comedy together. So you asked me, am I good at on my feet? And I guess because of the hobbies that I do, am because I perform. Yeah, yes. I perform improv and stand up. in my mind, I'm like, well, I try and make strangers laugh for fun. if I could do that, can, excuse me, can talk about protein all day. that makes my job easy. ⁓ So he ⁓ was a creative designer by trade.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, I would say so.

Sam Kramer: And we were just talking about this idea that I had and he wanted to come on board. So I'm kind of the nerdy science guy and he's like the creative guru. So between the two of us, we created this awesome branding. So as of mid 2025, he came on board and his wife is our head of operations. And then we were supposed to have product by Thanksgiving of last year, but As I'm sure you know, the trials and tribulations, ingredients get delayed, scheduling gets delayed. So we didn't actually launch until ⁓ almost literally two months ago to the day of May 12th, 2026. So from start of this is an idea in my head to, ⁓ my goodness, this is a can and I can drink it and we're selling it. was about 14 months.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Wow, that's crazy. And you're right, trials and tribulations, right? Like there are some huge wins, I'm sure, as you've learned throughout your journey, but there's also some smacks of the wall, right? Where you're like, dang it, I should have not done that, or I should have not invested in that piece. So can you give us some of your day-to-day as a co-founder and a CEO in the CPG space, which is a very competitive space.

Sam Kramer: Totally. Totally. It is, yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And with protein being so hot, it's also probably even more competitive because everyone's trying to put protein. The other day I was at Expo West a few months ago, it was like protein water and protein gummy bears and protein waffles and you know, all these other things. So, so talk to us about what is your day to day look like in your role?

Sam Kramer: Yeah. Yeah. And if I could just maybe just step back just for a second, like talking about because you're saying like protein is everywhere, which is so true. I think what makes ProSo unique is when we look at the protein space, there's typically two brand positionings that most companies go after. They're either going after the sports nutrition, hardcore, intense, know, bodybuilding type, ⁓ which is perfectly justifiable. And it tends to be like a protein maxing, like a numbers game of like how many grams of protein can be crammed into this vessel of whatever it is. And then you have this other side where it's kind of like the Ollie pop poppy person where it's like, excuse a little more female ⁓ millennial, maybe, you know, yoga enthusiast, mom type thing. And it's lower.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Even a GOP1 consumer, could see, like, you're almost like a lifestyle brand.

Sam Kramer: Totally, yeah. And they might have collagen mixed in, but they might still call it a protein, so that's a whole other bag of hammers. But we're kind of in this unique lane of, I think, being a dietitian, we have credibility, which nobody is really talking about. And then the people that we're talking to are these underserved protein demographics. So it could be the GLP-1 user, the moms, and really focusing on kids, which was kind of this. novel demographic that we weren't really thinking about in the beginning, ⁓ but it just how those things happen ⁓ has been a unique thing to try and find partners that are also looking into that space as well, especially with our cute little characters and all kind of stuff. ⁓

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, check it out. know I saw so one of my friends works for all I pop and I just I think it's so cool to be Kind of like the better for you brands, right? Like how do we make more functional foods that offer more like I think that's a unique space that you're starting to see more brands go and then I saw that Groon's partnered those little multivitamin, you know kids gummies They partnered with all I pop to do like an olive pop flavor. So you're also seeing a lot of this like cross branding of food products

Sam Kramer: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: which I think is really fascinating because you're seeing from the data, lot of millennials and the younger audience, they want this better for you functional, good for my health and tastes good ⁓ product. So it sounds like you're kind of right in that sweet spot, which is, it's hard to know. Was it good timing out of, ⁓ you know,

Sam Kramer: Totally.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: You had no idea this was coming or was that part of your strategic plan when you were thinking about this to really look at data and science and say, hey, here's the direction where we need to go because there's really a gap in protein consumption in this audience. And this is why.

Sam Kramer: in Yeah, yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. we definitely had, when I did the formula, it was intentional of we want to do 10 grams. Our goal is to make soda and protein inclusive and approachable. So we felt that putting too much is going to box out a lot of people. But we also, we're making this more of, it's something that's additive to your meals in your day, not replacing. So we're saying keep... eating your nutrient dense meals and shakes and bars, whatever, if you're doing that. But like you can drink this literally anytime with a meal. It's not going to sacrifice calories, ⁓ satiety or other, you know, nutrient density or your wallet because the more you know, that's proteins getting expensive too. So ⁓ I think it was it was very data driven. And I think now that we have the product, our data is even getting more robust because we're actually able to do samples and tastings and get real feedback rather than like, okay, based on spins and CIRCANA or IRI data, like we know protein is trending, but now we have like tangible data to our brand that we can then bring to our strategic partners and say, okay, here's why we're different and here's why our customers like our specific product.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, you know, and you mentioned because you are a dietitian, you have that science backing. How do you feel like scientific evidence and data impacts what you do in the day to day? Being able to go out and talk about your product.

Sam Kramer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you asked about my day to day, I will answer that too. ⁓ I mean, the science is so important. I think, especially with protein, ⁓ I think most consumers understand that it's ⁓ for muscle mass and lean body tissue, but now I think there's new users of protein, like you mentioned, GLP-1 users, ⁓ kids. So it's important to apply that research to those demographics in that context and speak to it. ⁓ But also that protein does so many other things outside of muscle health that people don't know about. And so it's my job as a dietitian to communicate that, but also do it in the proso tone and the proso branding. So because we have this improv and comedy background, we're taking this humorous approach. it's a really challenging but fun exercise to say, okay, I have all this nerdy science stuff in my head and I can talk about it, but how do we do it in a like in a punny way of being ⁓ digestible and makes sense to everyone.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: feel like those are some of the most viral videos though, where people are like, okay, I'm learning something, but you're hilarious. So maybe you have this competitive advantage. You need to get some of these viral videos, right? Okay, so let's, yeah.

Sam Kramer: Yeah. Yeah, mean, yeah. So for the day to day, mean, so from like, you know, CEO duties, a lot of it is, ⁓ you know, we're small, we just started two months ago, we're in about 30 retail locations here in the upstate area of where we are in Greenville in South Carolina. So a lot of it's a lot of windshield time, a lot of running around, ⁓ we're dropping off cases to different wholesale partners. Because cost is a huge factor. So how do we minimize cost? Well, if you want to take out not having to pay for packing and shipping and boxes and 3PL, we're going to run around and do it ourselves. So I have an SUV and I'll have like 36 cases of Proso just like stacked at the brim and, you know, driving like a grandma running around. ⁓ So that's always fun. And it's cool, like us getting into the community too. ⁓ We do tastings all around town to get more eyeballs. ⁓ and then it's a lot of boring admin stuff, like doing taxes and tracking sales and thinking ahead of, like future state, like where do you want to be? ⁓ and then the fun part is like, you know, like you're saying we're, writing a lot of like skits and, so it is like a writer's room where we'll have, you know, two hours a day and we'll just write. stuff that's garbage and throw it in the waste bin or we'll say, hey, this is really cool. And then we'll film and do repeat. we're treating it very ⁓ seriously in the sense of like comedy is like a ⁓ core to us, but we're going to do it very systematically and, and treat it like a, a real writer's room.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: you've talked about all these cases in your car and it brings back my days. So I used to be, when I was in college and in grad school, I was a monster college rep and a rock star college rep. And I would get 20 cases a month to throw parties and hand out rockstar and monster. And I just remember like filling my little Mazda 3 with all these cases and the bottom of my, or the trunk of my Mazda was just like almost on the floor of the weight of all these. So you brought back those memories, but you know,

Sam Kramer: Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And I think you're starting to see obviously bigger brands because they have the resourcing. But how do you also get, you know, health professionals and really advocates to go out and support your program? I mean, your product, ⁓ which I think it just takes time, right? You guys are still so early on, but I love the fun and creative part. And it sounds like that's really where a lot of your passions lie. So you're you're doing something that you're passionate about, which people always always said you don't work a day in your life if you actually enjoy what you're doing.

Sam Kramer: Totally. Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Right? And I mean, I'm sure you've had some really hard days, especially if things like didn't go well, but it's also funny and you get to do it with one of your best friends, which sounds really cool.

Sam Kramer: Yeah. And it's like, it's still shocking that like, this was just an idea this time last year. And now I can literally go to my fridge and crack open a Proso anytime. Like it doesn't feel real, you know, especially when you're, when you're in it day to day. But then you get like the feedback from customers and like, ⁓ my God, this is amazing. You know, I've never had something like this before. And it's like, okay, that makes me feel good that we get to help people live healthier lives. Cause that's always been the goal. Even with supplements, it's like, okay, I'm not going to directly counsel patients or athletes, but how can I make an impact in a different way? And mine is a little more indirect, right? I'm making things that are ⁓ efficacious based on evidence-based science and tastes good at a good cost and is like a fun experience.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: and there's a product for everyone, right? Like it's not gonna be for everyone, but there is something for everyone, whether that is a supplement or a food or a drink or a lifestyle, right? Whether it's a brand. So I do think that there's an option for everyone. think as health professionals, at least when I was a student, it was like, so this is good for you, this is bad for you. And I think we're starting to break out of those constructs of like,

Sam Kramer: Mm-hmm.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: all things can fit, just like how do you fit it in a lifestyle? So I do think it's a ⁓ benefit of this younger generation of health professionals that are saying, wait a minute, we don't need to be confined to this box. Like we can eat what we want. We can do what sort of activities. Like you don't just have to do 60 minutes of resistance exercise five days a week. That was hammered into us, right? ⁓ As a kid. So.

Sam Kramer: Totally. See you

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Sam, you've had a really cool career and you did tell me a fun fact that you must say when you're on here, but what has been something your favorite or your most proud of so far in your career?

Sam Kramer: ⁓ and my entire career, wow. ⁓ I mean, it sounds cliche, but I think it's the pros though, because it was just, it's still very hard, I think just overcoming, looking back and saying, okay, I overcame all these obstacles and I made something, like that's an accomplishment within itself. Like, you know, we could, we could, we're not really gonna close the door, you know, but close the books, but like, that's very ⁓ satisfying, I think, because not. a lot of people would maybe get that far. And now it's, it's okay. We have product and now we're spending our time like being present and enjoying this, but still got to think of the future, right? Because you got to plan ahead. ⁓ So it's just, yeah, it's, think it's sometimes hard to like sit in that pocket a little bit, but feeling very proud that I got to start something and now I'm including my friends and getting to spread the Pro-So Gospel to hopefully, you know, around the world.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I think so many health professions and dieticians especially I've seen, they have this entrepreneurial mindset. They just don't know where to go. Especially if you have maybe been in some of those more traditional careers, you're like, how do I break into that? That's where my passion is. And that's where you see a lot of these better for you brands. They come from moms and dads and they come from college students saying, hey, there's a gap here that all of sudden like... I try and give encouragement that you can do this at any point in your career. Like if you see that gap, and I know I had Krista Yoder on early in one of my episodes and she like, I mean, she started and sold multiple companies, like, and that is something that you can do as a nutrition professional. So I think that's really cool. And Sam told me before he got on that you're what, the hundred thousandth credential dietitian, like that is just super cool. I know you didn't do anything special to do that, but it's just like,

Sam Kramer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I hit the lotto. ⁓ Yeah. And it's like, think this with Pro So or anything, it's really just perseverance. It's like, you just have to keep going because it's going to suck at times. It's going to be glorious and others probably not great most of the time, you know, but like, if you can keep

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's a fun fact that I would always use.

Sam Kramer: going, like I think when you look back, it's like, ⁓ man, like I overcame this huge mountain. Like I think of like, now that I'm into ultra running, like I apply a lot of those principles to this. It's like, okay, well, I didn't think I could do this distance and I did it. So if I could do that, then I can do, you know, anything. So it was just, you know, finding something that, that you are, like you said, that you are passionate about and just keep going because you, the only person that's going to stop you is yourself.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: the same way. My biggest struggle is once I get to this zone that I never thought I could reach, like maybe it's an accolade or maybe it's a title or maybe it's a position or whatever it might be or starting your own thing, how do I sit and enjoy that? Because I go from, ⁓ okay, I reached the milestone, now I'm going the hundred mile or you know what I mean? Like, I have yet to learn to be like, okay, this is really good, Kristin, you can stay in this zone. It's just not how I built.

Sam Kramer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Maybe I don't know. Do you have any advice for me, Sam? How do I stay at status quo and be happy?

Sam Kramer: on the same month. ⁓ man, I mean I struggle with it too. think it's trying to really sit down and I think of this literally like take away all distractions and just take, even if it's five minutes, just being like I'm an impressive person, that kind of self-positive, the affirmation. I think it's just reflecting on that and then once you do that, then you can go back to thinking of the next thing. It's just taking micro. doses of ⁓ affirmation, think is the way that I approach it, at least.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I love that. My kids, we have a book. It's called I Like Me. And it basically like walks you through like this pig looking in the mirror and it's like, I like me. And even when I drop my cake, I still like me. You know, it's like, my kids are like, I like me too. So you're right. I think sometimes we do need to pause. It can be quick, but it can be pause, say, wow, like I really accomplished something I never thought I would. And then we can move to the next. So I'm going to try that myself. Speaking of

Sam Kramer: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Cool.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: tips and suggestions. What other suggestions or tips would you have for someone who's maybe interested in this type of career field, maybe in the supplement industry and R &D and maybe creating their own, you know, CPG product.

Sam Kramer: Yeah. So, so I, I've been a preceptor for dietetic interns, ⁓ at IVC, ⁓ with Florida state. So I have all the interns come and sit with me for a month. ⁓ they create a formula from scratch. have a podcast. ⁓ so it's really cool because they get that exposure to this, this world of dietetics. And, ⁓ you know, some of them have like, you know, how do I, and it's, it even goes back to me asking the chief science officer or that company I worked for in Texas. Like, how do I become you? It's, it's asking a lot of questions. ⁓ I think a lot of it, like you kind of mentioned at the top, which I totally align with is just say yes to an experience. A job is not for forever, ⁓ but anything that gets you in the door to at least like get closer to what you want to do, I think is important. ⁓ LinkedIn is like my best friend for that. Like literally just like apply to jobs because. ⁓ You know, there's like that old saying like you'll get a thousand nos, but all it takes is one yes is kind of like the thing. So I think it's just being an advocate for yourself, wanting to learn and ask somebody. Like if somebody emailed me, like, hey, I want to like intern with you for ProSo. Like maybe we can make that happen. I don't know. You know, we'll figure it out. So it's like, I think just like being confident in yourself to take the leap and just... poking around and trying to get in somewhere that you want to be.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Alright guys, you got an open invitation from Sam, so Sam you're gonna be calling up there.

Sam Kramer: Yeah, if my inbox gets flooded, yeah, we'll know why.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: No, you know, I think you're right. mean, I always say yes, sometimes to a fault. I wish I could learn how to say no more, but I do think if you are not happy where you're at, or maybe you just want more, maybe you just want a different experience. I think saying yes can open so many doors to things that you never knew because number one, you may add an experience or a skillset that you've never thought about. And then number two, I mean, I love LinkedIn too. But I think it's also you're building this network and this network may be in an online platform like a LinkedIn or Instagram or TikTok or however you connect with people. But it's also a personal thing, right? So if I let's say in my in my future years, I'm like, I want to start my own CPG. Now I'm going to say, well, Sam, can you guide me? Right. What are some of these resources that you use? So you can have mentors of people that you've interacted with very briefly, too.

Sam Kramer: Totally. Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So I think that's a lot of really good suggestions and tips.

Sam Kramer: Yeah, a lot of it's paying it forward. know, like when I was in school, I had mentors and when I think of how much they helped me, it's like, well, now it's my turn, right, to pass that along. ⁓ And I think something that I always advise the interns is like anything that you do, I think should add value to what you want to do, but also helps you. How do you become undeniable in like a professional sense? Like, do you have a unique skill set or? ⁓ You know, not just like credentials, but like, you know, a job function that you've done that's like, whoa, you have manufacturing ⁓ as innovation, but you've also done regulatory. Like, that's interesting. You know, like there's not many people that are like Swiss army knives of skills. So I think it's just like, yeah, carving out your own little path and trying to buy, think by saying yes to almost anything and everything and a job like helps you to have those unique skill sets.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, an upskilling is going to be imperative with the AI boom, right? Because how are you really bringing a unique voice, a skill set beyond just what someone could throw into an AI model and spit out a marketing campaign, right? So how are you like, okay, well, yes, it's marketing, but I know all the FDA regulations. I understand the scientific evidence to be able to go out and say accurate.

Sam Kramer: Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: safe, legally compliant marketing messages. So I think that's a way that we can continue as nutrition professionals to kind of say like carve our niche is to continue to upscale. And ⁓ yeah.

Sam Kramer: Yeah, and it will save you money. mean, lawyers are very expensive, you know, if you're paying, you know, 800 bucks to get your label review, but you already know how to do it. It's 800 bucks in your pocket that you don't have to spend. So there's an economic benefit too. Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: For sure, well especially for you, I'm sure. Okay, my favorite question, Sam, if you had a crystal ball, what do you think is coming next in nutrition?

Sam Kramer: in nutrition overall.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Anywhere it can be in food, health, agriculture, nutrition overall. What do you think's coming?

Sam Kramer: Great question. ⁓ I think, obviously my background being in supplements, I love talking about that. think what we're seeing is this revolution in supplements of the consumer becoming more educated. So ⁓ I think that's amazing because now it puts pressure on the brands to really. do the right thing. Not that all of them are bad, but there are some bad apples out there that, like you said, kind of make these crazy claims that aren't substantiated. So I think there's just going to be more rigorous enforcement and ⁓ more transparency and just overall better quality. it's like, it's really this big pull from the consumer, which is great. ⁓ So I think that, kind of like the, that's like kind of the regulatory landscape and just from a product perspective, it's delivery formats and hyper specificity. You know, we're seeing like colostrum in cans now as a beverage and creatine as a beverage and hyper specificity in women's health, which is amazing. You know, it used to be like a prenatal and a hair, skin and nails multi. Now it's, you know, it's postnatal and... There's probiotics for women's specific indications and hair growth and menopause and PMS. And it's just, it's so amazing to see ⁓ these very like life stage important ⁓ products being for women that are efficacious because that has not happened for a very long time. So it's, it's very well, well needed, very much needed.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: these better for you products. I mean, you're seeing it kind of everywhere. You're seeing it across food and beverage CPG, but I think you're going to continue to see it in the supplement industry. You talked about how are we being more transparent doing second party or third party testing, but also having the credibility behind it. So maybe that's more of a products investing in science of their products, right? That could be something.

Sam Kramer: Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: which is an opportunity for nutrition professionals to sit at the cornerstone. But you also have younger consumers, so millennials and Gen Z and this Gen Alpha, Gen Beta, the littles right now, they're expecting companies, both food, beverage, supplements, to say, hey, is that really what's in your product? Is that really good for me?

Sam Kramer: Absolutely. Yeah.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: what is in your product that maybe shouldn't be in your product. And so I feel like they're actually really challenging the status quo that I would love to see too. Like would we ever get to a point, for example, in the dietary supplement, would we get more personalized supplement ⁓ specificity? So rather than, I'm going, I need a vitamin B complex, are we rather than a

Sam Kramer: Mmm.

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: standard, I don't know, 10,000 unit dose or whatever regular dose is, I have no idea. Rather than this like broad spectrum dose, will we get more specificity of you talked about it, right? Like even you now have these like menopausal and perimenopausal life stages, will we continue to go deeper rather than like a standard children's multivitamin? Will you get a teen? multivitamin, right? To really kind of like hone in on the nutritional needs per life stage. So that's super fascinating.

Sam Kramer: Yeah. And if I didn't mention it, hopefully ProSow is a household name. You gotta wish it into existence, you know?

Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, exactly. Hey, you got to push what you want into existence. So Sam, thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate your insights and your story. And if you like the show, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring on a different dietitian and nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.