Brandon Gratzer: And welcome into two guys down to our pounds. I'm Brandon and my other co-host is Brian is out of town at Panama City Beach for his son's baseball world series. We wish the 10 U Ackworth Warriors good luck this weekend. Give us a give us a listen if you're on the beach or you're headed to your first game ⁓ this weekend or this week. Today I'm joined by my wife Annette Gratzer, who again is a second-time person on our Podcast. I'm the first to do it. And the special guest, Caroline Manus, who was this year's co ed cheerleading champion in GHSA. Yay, I'm happy to be here. All right, let's get started. How does it feel to be a co ed state champion co championship coach at Roswell? Big shoes to feel since your grandpa is the legendary football coach at Roswell. Do you feel like it was Hard shoes to fill over there. So yes. My granddad started ⁓ working at Roswell. ⁓ he was a football coach and you know Coached a ton of things over the years. He coached there for 42 years. so yeah, I didn't know it was 42. 42 years. And ⁓ it just kind of happened. And I so he his name is Ray Mainus. I am Caroline Ray Mainus, and I feel like it was such a God thing that I ended up being there. And they called and said, you know, will you come coach over here? And I said, Yes, like that would be very special. So my granddad, the stadium. Is named after him. really big shoes to fill, but I think I maybe underestimated because, like, in my mind, I was like, hey, he's just this like incredible coach. Yeah. And then since the time that I've been there, I realized like why his name is on that stadium is because he's just an incredible human being. He was a great teacher. ⁓ and that is that was way more of an impact for him and his life. And then ⁓ also like what he did at Roswell was because he was such a great teacher. So So, yeah, I mean, being a state champion, it was ⁓ very special. My first year there ⁓ at Roswell, they had not been to state in 12 years. We finished 10th, and then the next year we finished seventh, and the next year, and we were also region champs that year. The next year, yep, it was exciting. The next year we were ⁓ fourth place, so if you're like catching the pattern, we've gone up three places every single time. And so last year, like our motto was like, Hey, we've got to finish So you've gone up three places. We were fourth place. That was like three more places up is the first place. ⁓ and they did that and it was really incredibly special. And my kids worked so hard. So the the real questionnaire is is are you gonna get a name on the gym or something? We gotta follow the footsteps. Listen, we practice in the fitness lab. So I'm hoping it will be the ⁓ Baker and Maynus Fitness Lab eventually. ⁓ but we'll see. ⁓ ⁓ I keep joking with my granddad and I say, Hey, if you're not careful, it's gonna say the Caroline Ready Maintenance Stadium. You better watch out. All right. After that little intro, we're gonna get right in some questions here for Annette and Caroline as we gonna bring in the fitness aspect of cheerleading. ⁓ how physical demanding is cheerleading? And whoever wants to answer it can go first. You start, Annette. Listen. think that a lot of people underestimate it. ⁓ if we're ta I feel like there's two different types of cheerleading whenever I answer this question. I mean if you're on the sidelines, yes, it could be a lot, but what we're seeing nowadays with competitive cheerleading, even from when I graduated high school till now, it is very demanding. And I always tell kids that decide to try cheerleading for the first time, you're gonna feel muscles in your body that you have never felt hurt. And They never believe me until it happens. Is this a type of hurting muscles aching that you'd feel that burn for the first time? Honestly, I black out a burn. So possibly, yes. But I just feel like it's a it's a you're working out a lot of other muscles that you don't think that you are. ⁓ and kids are not used to that and then they think it's easy until they try it. I think it's so much plometrics and I used to do orange theory. I did burn one time and it was really scary and hard and I never went back. ⁓ but I did scary because you were given high fives. ⁓ the high fives were a lot. The you know, ⁓ and I did they were like, hey, this workout right here is you're gonna hold these dumbbells and you're just gonna hold them here. And I looked at my friend who we were trying it together and I was like, that's the workout, it's gonna be so easy. And so I grab it, I'm dropping the dumbbell. I'm like, that's the hardest workout I've ever done in my entire life. So it was pretty ⁓ it was a lot. But when I did Orange Theory, the hardest days were the days that we did apply metrics. The the row days. The row days. Or the worst. ⁓ they're absolutely terrible. And like jump squats and you know my lower back. My lower back just hurt from thinking about that rower. Yeah. That was a killer. Me and Annette were were frequent ⁓ orange theory people. We were there for what, a year maybe? No, like Two, two and a half. Two okay, two and a half years. And I will say they, you know, they say the rows your full body workout. That is the worst thing I ever done. Because we did it. Rowing. It's 'cause the formation the form we had was wrong every time. That's why I say that too. Like when I used to do rows, like in the like I used to go to Gold's Gym and I was just like on the row machine and I would spend like ten minutes on it. I like, This so easy. Like, why is everybody I was doing it totally wrong. So I was like just like casually doing it. So yeah, I know it's a lot. ⁓ what what kind of conditioning do you guys do in the summertime when when we're in the off season? Is it more cardio based? Is it strength based? Are y'all doing it? Are we combining it? Well I mean, what are we doing? And y'all and y'all are two different programs. Again, we have a Roswell coach and then we have ⁓ Annette who's at Altuna High School. So you're talking two complete different programs. I mean, I think we I mean, this a lot of similarities that me and Caroline do. but I think she said it earlier that it's a lot of mixing, you know. You're gonna have to get speed, endurance, strength. Like it's all very combined. So have y'all ever done CrossFit before? I have not done CrossFit. Okay. So I used to be a CrossFit baddie. I'm not anymore. it was incredible until I was just like over it. But I think I learned a lot about working out from doing CrossFit. And I loved CrossFit because it taught me so much of like, hey, we were doing goals, and it was like my goal was totally different than your goal, but it was also the same. So like it might be doing as many reps as possible. That's what we're doing. And so like I'm secretly in a competition with you guys, even though you have no idea. But so I took that a lot to what I do at Roswell. And ⁓ so we I mean, we run a mile at least once a week. We run the monster mile. Do you know what the monster mile is? What is the monster mile? That don't even sound good. Okay. That sounds brutal. Just monster mile. My cheerleaders hate it, but when I I hate it too. Mons Hey guys, we're going out for a monster mile today. It's ⁓ some of them like it, but most of them hate it. So whenever you're on the straightaways, you are doing stadiums. So you like sprint the curves and then you are going and do like doing stadiums where the straightaways are. So that's the monster mile. ⁓ first time we did, I was like, This isn't like not hard at all. And then all the cheerleaders left and I was like, we're gonna try it. I mean like that. They quit and let After they no, no, they they they finished it and they were like ⁓ cussing me out without cussing me out, but I could just look at like a look in their eyes, yes, exactly. And so I was like, okay, ⁓ so I'm just gonna like try this. And I was like, I made it up like the first one. I was like, I'm dying, actually. I'm like, I'm like, let's go, whenever I'm coaching, and then it's me, and I'm like, ⁓ I hate my life. So ⁓ yeah, so that's what they do. The monster mile, we do a lot of that, and then we like immediately go into like doing a full. Right after that. So, how much endurance does a two-minute routine actually take? And how many fallouts would you say y'all require in a a week and a week of practice? I ⁓ I will say this: when I was at Lanier High School, shout out to Nom, we talk about this all the time. I swear we did probably like five to six fallouts at one practice. Cause we just needed consistency, repetition. And throughout the years, I feel like it's kinda gone down. Where if you do two a practice, they're dying. They're dead. They're dead. Absolutely. And I'm like, go ahead. And they're like, can you please send us a practice plan so we can mentally prepare for what? It's Okay, so do you do you send a practice plan? I do. So I do. For them most of the days. If I don't send it out in the morning, I will get a text message where they're like, can you please just let us know what we're gonna do so we can mentally prepare? Like legit, I get text messages like through class from my cheerleaders asking. So this is really different. Hold on. But before before you give us your answer on that Some of the dads on here have no idea or some of the moms don't even know what a full out is. True. So maybe we should explain what a full out is. Brandon, would you like to put it in guide terms that has never been a cheerleader before? Honestly, I mean doing the the full routine. Yes. Full out. So like going full out, doing all the things like everything. Like it's your your flips, everything. Your tumbling, you're doing your stomachs. You're doing your jumps, you were performing. Like you're putting on the show right there and then. And for people that don't understand is that our rubric ooh, sorry. Our rubric for like JHSA has pyramid our If it's a co ed, we have co ed stunts, we've got jumps, we've got all these things. So there's some days I know Caroline was telling me earlier that there's some days that they just clean. They just go into the routine and when we say clean, like make it look sharper, make it look like why are you fixed little things. Yeah, like why isn't everyone looking we have to look like one. Yeah. And the days that we have full out days, you're not gonna breathe. This is gonna be the real thing 'cause you are nonstop. And then endurance for that, it's a lot. So I like remember whenever I was a cheerleader and they would be like, let's go full out. And like I just remember it felt like I had razor blades in my throat. Like I was like, I am dying right now. and then they'd be like, All right, let's do it again. And I'm like, What do you mean let's do it again? Like, I'm dying. We we just died, didn't we? We just did, yes. So we ⁓ full out, and so going off of what Annette said with the GHSA rubric, you have degree of difficulty, which is like how hard of that you're doing and then you have your execution which is how well you are doing it. And so we might, you know, there's there's different ways to hit the degree of difficulty, but then whenever your execution is like how well are you doing it? So that's why we have to clean. Like it doesn't just count like you're doing the hard things. You have to do the hard things well. Yeah. You can't just throw something out there and like I mean to put it out there for the men, like think about a football play and you're about to run a route and it is It you got it, you got through, but it looked like a mess and it was pure luck. Well, we're trying to like get rid of that and make it consistent where it's like second nature. So so basically what you're saying is is if and you know, going full out here, if a guy don't if a guy doesn't run the route right or he doesn't quarterback doesn't throw the ball right, then they're gonna keep doing it until they get it right. Yeah. And that's basically what Full out is going. Yes. And with football, it doesn't matter how ugly it is if you get the job done, you get the job done. But you're letting it s gotta look beautiful. And two minutes. And two and a half minutes. Two and a half minutes. And dare I say, if you get an interception, you can still come back in the game for football. We've got two minutes and thirty seconds. If you crash and burn and that's the competition you decided to crash and burn, that's it. We are striving for perfection. And that is for high school in in The all-star world, they typically get two days. So if you crash and burn on the first day, you can somewhat make up for it second day, but doesn't necessarily mean you'll win. No, and they also, as coaches, they get to fight their scores. So, like, if they believe I get my scores back, and I'm like, wait a minute, you marked me lower for my difficulty when I know I I did this difficulty, we can go and fight it versus GHSA. Nope, sorry. Nope. What they They said is God, Bible, all the things. It is because we've had that issue at Altoona one time for region champion and championship and I think they said we didn't I think it wasn't enough fools or something. We had more than enough fools and we got gypped. And you can't do as a coach, you what are you supposed to tell your kids that gave the routine of a lifetime and they did everything you asked them to, but it was just human error. And we get that. Like human error exists. But I also tell my kids that this is a very subjective sport. ⁓ we picked a sport, like Caroline says, that we chase perfection in a world where perfection is very hard to reach. Who who typically works harder? Boys, girls, when we're talking co ed here, we're I mean we're not talking just your all girl team, we're talking co ed. Who who do y'all think is working harder? Boys or the girls, or it depends on the athlete? It depends on the athlete, I think. So different. Every year it can be different. So whenever I first went co-ed, I was like so excited. I was like, ⁓ my God, like we're just gonna have these boys are gonna just like set the tone for like working hard. obviously my grandad was a football coach, but my dad was as well. And so I was like, hey, we're gonna have like football players here. And ⁓ wasn't totally the case. and they work really, really hard, but it's totally different. And what motivates them is very different from what motivates my girls. On the team. Yes. And I think that we also had different dynamics just because we were co-ed too. But hit her boys had background in cheerleading when they came to Roswell. ⁓ yeah. Versus mine, I literally went and stalked. And by stalked, I mean they were my Spanish classroom. And one of my boys, he'll hate me for this, but he had just gotten broken up with at lunch. And the girl like slapped him in the lunchroom. And I listen, this is my opportunity. I said, you You know what? That was freshman year. You're gonna be that boy. Or you could do something greater. Join cheer with me. Just be surrounded by all these girls. No one will remember getting slapped in the face. And meanwhile, I'm the one that reminded him till this day. ⁓ but yeah, I mean it does because we were at his graduation party and it was brought up in Of course it was. It's come a long way. But I mean I think that whenever I get those boys, they were the hype. Like my boys were, if any other school saw them, they were hyping them up as well. but my girls were the They were the ones that that did this their whole lives. They could teach them. They and the boys would ask, Hey, can you help me? Hey, can you go to the gym with me and do extra things? So it definitely is the different dynamics of what team you have. But what I've seen is like since I've had boys on my team, I feel like we have more of a respect at our school because the football players or the basketball players or the wrestlers or the baseball team, they're like looking at these guys that are their same age, like their same build, and they're like, ⁓ I could never do what you were doing. And so like whenever you're looking at with the girls, they can't relate as much. And so I think with the boys are like, okay, mad respect because that's actually really cool. Actually that rolls into my next question that I was gonna ask was is can a male cheerleader be the best athlete in the school? Yes, absolutely. I think in a lot of people in the cheer world Will know this name when I say it, but Josh Marsh. ⁓ he was a peach tree rich cheerleader. He was one of our biggest competitors. and he actually went to cheer on at University of Kentucky, and that kid was just an athlete. Like, I think he had played ⁓ football, but he ⁓ was just an amazing athlete. Did some of us like some things that have yet to even happen again in GHSA cheer for Coed World. ⁓ so I I look at him and I just think he was. was a full package like he could play any sport that he wanted to ⁓ just with the background that he had and he chose to do cheer and he did an amazing job and I I would always show my boys when I would try to recruit them I'm like go Google Josh Marsh and they would be like coach look at him he's ripped I'm like an athlete yes let's go off so he actually he owns a gym now I think in Gwinnett County so but I think he's still like relevant in a lot of these kids' lives so I think that's just a perfect Example that they're they're true athletes. Like the some of the stuff that they do, it's crazy. It's like unattainable, I think. Like for so many, like I said, like with the boys, with the football players, or the wrestlers, or whatever, they all cannot do what these guys are doing. I will say, like, you know, I trained my brother, also was a cheerleader. And he started doing tumbling whenever I was like when I was a kid at the same time as me because he was just sitting there whenever I was in tumbling class. And my dad was like, Hey, like he's just sitting there. I'm gonna go ahead and enroll him in the class. And so we both got our runoff answering tucks on the same day. I had been training for it for three years. He was like three weeks. I was like, Are you kidding me? ⁓ so I think that you can teach a guy a standing tuck like thirty minutes if like and truly they'll be able to do it. Where our girls are working years and years and years on that same skill. Okay, I have a theory on this though. Okay. It's the stupidity factor. Boys, no offense. Yeah, we will try anything and not care. We don't care if we break our necks. No, and think about it, they fall on their necks and they're like, that was so cool, man. Like, let me try. And they'll do it. And then once they saw another boy get the tuck first, they would get mad. Nah, nah, I'm gonna do this. And versus the girls. Yeah. See, but the girls are like, this is what I say. Like with the girls. Middle school years are the most important years to their development as a cheerleader. I think I think that they are a lot more fearless ⁓ whenever they are in middle school and they are willing to try a lot more things. I also think that their bodies haven't hit puberty yet. And so they are able to do a lot more different things than w you know, after you're in high school. And so I think that they are a lot more fearless. I think whenever you get in high school you realize like, ⁓ what I'm doing I could die to do. You kind of know more than it's harder to like ⁓ get over that mental Yeah. I mean as a girl 'cause hello, we're always Analyzing everything versus a boy, they just see it as like parkour, like cool. So I was gonna go back and answer my own question because seen as a guy on the outside looking in, yeah. ⁓ and I never did truly, I did baseball, basketball, football. Don't forget that one year of soccer. My one year of soccer. That is right, because I was a beast, but according to my brother, I wasn't. ⁓ would I say the best athlete in the school? I don't know I would go that far, but I will say just from seeing Annette and the boys that's come across, which we've had wrestlers, we had football players, we've had basketball. Yeah, even a basketball player the last two years. And ⁓ I would say, you know, strength wise and everything, I would say they're probably one of the better all around athletes. I don't know that I would say it they're the best athlete in the school, but I would say they're they're definitely an all around athlete and can do, you know, a lot of sports. I I say there, you know, a lot of ⁓ can do do everything, honestly. I'm going to agree to disagree with you. I think we gotta take it case by case. I think that there are some male cheerleaders just like girls too, right? Like I think it's there are some girls that the most athletic and sometimes I look and I'm like, hey, you're an athlete, you're not a cheerleader. Or like it it's there's a difference. but I think Some of the guys have the like Annette was talking about like Josh, like I I think that they have the skill set and the work ethic to be the most athletic at the school. Yes. And they just choose to do cheerleading and that's so I think it's case by case. I can't say I there's not a lot of size, but it's all there. And this is one like I'm getting teamed up here. You are. ⁓ but here's one thing that I even tell my football players when they, you know, they try to talk their game and school and class. I'm like, Okay, how much do you lift? and they'll tell me a number. I'm like, okay, so your bar is steady, they're helping you spot, and like you're just lifting, right? Okay. Now think about you lifting a girl who is not steady, and you're having not only to push up that weight, but you're having to adjust and help and having to read her in the air. Cause if she shifts a little bit to the right, you're gonna have to be cheerleading smart and think, okay, how am I gonna adjust to that? So I think it takes a different level of strength and also smarts in this where you You know, football players, you got the bar and they're just and if it comes down, it comes down, you don't have to catch it. Facts. Have you do y'all do football one on one at Alatuna? No, but we're actually gonna we have a new coach coming in and I actually pitched that to him. Love it. With band as well. So we are so we're doing that this year. We did it last year where the cheerleaders were like running routes. We like went through a football practice. And this year, actually on Wednesday, we are doing it. Right. ⁓ our cheerleaders are going to teach our football players to Cheerleading. So like maybe I'll come back another day and let you know how it goes. Definitely another episode for that. Yep. that with that being said, who I don't know if we cover this or not. Who is more dramatic? Boys or girls? Also depends on who. Agreed. I love you. I love you boys, but sometimes We get our dramatic moments. I would say maybe it's like a few here and there. Like I once again, dear Joseph, love Joseph. But the amount of tape I had to buy for his wrist, I'm like, Joseph, come on. We it's okay. Coach, they hurt okay, Joseph. Come on. I'm like, I don't care, I'll buy however much as long as you do your job and the tape helps you do your job, I will be. I'll pay for it. I would have to say it depends. Every year I think it depends. It's a different it can be dramatic towards full outs, dramatic towards tumbling, dramatic in life. Yeah. ⁓ it really I I don't think I have a There's not a solid one hundred percent this way or the other way. It just depends. And sometimes it's like case by case, but then also sometimes it's day by day. Case by case, day by day. I I think I agree with that because there's all the stories Annette comes home with it's like a different person, a different day, and it could be the same person, just a different day. And I'm just like it's not that deep. Why? Why? But I think here here goes the biggest question I think everybody always questions and asks cheer a sport You know, o obviously, you know, depending on if you're s if you you know, sport and stuff, you know, you you only get one shot, so you can't really sub out people or anything like that. obviously you're cheer coaches, but mean if you had asked me ten years ago if chair probably before I met Annette, ⁓ before we started dating and she was a cheer coach, I probably have told you cheer wasn't a sport. Honestly, because I was like, dude, cheer, we'll get out there, we'll do a few Whatever flips. Well I'll throw somebody up. Who cares? It's not a big deal. Get out there and try to hit a ninety mile an hour fastballer. Try to try to hit one hit some big dude on the sideline, which is hard. But then when I started watching it and now that I've been involved in it for ten years, I guess. Mm-hmm. ⁓ dude, two minutes, two and a half minutes is solid. And when I watch these dudes throw girls up, I I mean, I don't even think I could have done it. ⁓ But some of these new dudes and you know, your boys at Roswell, dude, they've been doing it forever and they kill it and it's two minutes. It's not easy two and a half minutes. It's two and a half minutes hard. And then the full body strength and everything you gotta have to do everything is I'd I'd say it's a sport. So I'll say this. My granddad, ⁓ you know, coached football obviously for forty two years, coach basketball, he coached baseball, he coached track, he coached Golf. He coached like if you can name the sport, he probably coached it over his forty-two years. And he came to me ⁓ this year after state and he said, Caroline, he said, Cheerleading is the most intense sport I've ever witnessed. And he said, I I was waiting for awards and he's like, I'm pacing back and forth. It's terrifying. And then he said, you know, but The thing is, is like what you've got to realize, the difference between cheerleading and so many of the other sports is there's no margin of error in cheerleading at all. Like I said, we're striving for perfection and and that's hard physically, but it's also hard mentally on our kids. And they are going and trying to be perfect. And like like you said, you can't sub somebody out. I can't like, hey, your jumps are great, but you're not a great stunter. Like you have to do it all, especially with GHSA. All-star, you've got a little bit more flexibility. ⁓ but with GHSA, you if you're on that mat, you are doing everything. So you've got to be well-rounded. You have to do, and then you're trying to be perfect. And the physical pressure of it, right? You were the having the tardest two and a half minutes of your life. But then also the mental pressure of like, hey, if I mess up, this is all on me. It's kind of like with baseball, right? Like the the errors, like that's all on you. And that's kind of how cheerleading and baseball I think are similar in that way of like you are waiting to see what goes wrong. And that's kind of ⁓ it's hard mentally. The thing is, is like football, we can We we got more plays. We have another quarter. We have four quarters. I I can't we can keep running. If somebody messes up, I can sub somebody else in, right? Like I have a halftime that I can give you the best pep talk of your life and come back. Right. I I mean we have so many opportunities in other sports and truly we have two minutes thirty seconds to get it right or we're Coach. Our coaching that we do is Monday through Friday and then Saturday, it's all up to them. And I tell them that like there's there's nothing I can do in those chairs to make them hit their routine or not. And I think that's where I'm very, Brendan knows this, I'm very a control freak. So I think that's where my anxiety guessed it. ⁓ I think that's where my anxiety comes the days that we are sitting on the chairs and because I can't it's up to them. Yeah. We have to, as coaches, hope that we have not only prepared them physically and gone over everything, but the key part too is mentally. Because sometimes it's a mental game and you have to be mentally tough to make sure that you finish the job. And the kids always say, Everyone, just do your job. But sometimes it's a matter of one little mistake, one mess up. And that's the whole thing. But I think that's a special part about cheerleading is because, like I say, Jim Lord said at our conference last Year and and it was like it clicked of like why am I doing what I'm doing is because he said, We you are not coaching cheerleading, you are using cheerleading as a tool to teach young people about life. And when I'm standing in those chairs, I'm not a mom. ⁓ but if I was what I envision sitting in those chairs being like is probably like moms the first time that they see their kid arriving, whenever they're 16 years old, where you're like, I hope I have prepared them for this. moment it's all up to them like to do all the right things and that's how I feel like I'm like I have no control I don't know what to do I'm panicking but I think it's such an important thing of like that prepares them for life and you're not gonna have somebody always to bail you out of things that you deal with in life and I think cheerleading is the like we say we're like hey nobody cares if Your boyfriend broke up with you today. Or nobody cares. If but like they do and they think that the world revolves around them and like life doesn't. If I'm like, hey, I don't want to show up to work today, I still have to pay my bills. So you it it's I wish I didn't have to, but I do. And so I think that is just it's such a good representation for life. All right, with that being said, we are guys, we are rolling into our overrated, underrated segment. This segment is brought to you by Power Washing by Chris. for all your needs, give Chris a call 678-605-6565. Again, any pressure washing needs, that dude's the man to go to. And I can tell you right now, if you give me a call, I ain't doing it for you. ⁓ so the first question we have for overrated, underrated, and we will go with All Star Cheer. You start This is a hard one. ⁓ I okay, I feel like sometimes it's like depending on the day. I would have to say that it's underrated. I feel like a lot of kids going back to your life. stuff. I feel like you learn a lot from All-Star Cheerleading. It's a little intense, yes. Some people might think that you're in a cult, yes. ⁓ but those kids learn a lot. and you see it as they grow up, the the the things that they learn from that discipline. And then when you get them in high school too as a cheer coach, I'm like, wow, yes, you know they have that all-star background. Yeah. I think like where I feel with all-star cheer, I do think it's underrated and I think like Like we are we kind of have a marriage where I'm like you guys help me and I help you and all the things and we have to work together. But the hardest part about All-Star Cheer as a school coach is it's hard. And they have two weeks off, like not even. And so they're going year round, year round. And now where I'm like, hey, we're working in August. And our whole season is over before their season even starts. ⁓ and I think it's hard on kids. Like I like them like and then they have homework too. ⁓ yeah. So like they're like going to school cheer and then all star cheer, which is year round, and then they have homework. And I don't know about your kids. My kids are all like super high achievers where I think they're like that's the perfectionist in them. Yeah. They're doing AP courses, they're doing honors, they're doing whatever. And they go to bed at like two AM because they go to like two practices, their bodies are exhausted, then they're doing Doing homework. Yeah. And then they go to bed and they have to turn around like do it all over again. I felt bad for kids today. Like I think there's a lot on them, especially cheerleaders. Yeah. Well, and don't forget, not only you have practices, but those kids are wanting to work during the season for next year, hoping to level up. And leveling up just means ⁓ getting higher skills to go to a higher level in cheer. And you got their tumbling classes, stunt privates. I mean, it's all flexibility classes. It's nonstop. But it's It's important for what we do. They they do develop our athletes and that it helps. And for the outside opinion here, uhhuh. All star cheer to me is like travel baseball. Like if I think it's required to do all star cheer. Like if you if you're gonna do great in high school for your to make your high school team, and not everybody that does all star cheer even tries out for their high school team, ⁓ I feel like that's another step. Like Like to even get in a college at the top college teams is it all resonates from all star cheer. And so for me, I think it's underrated. I think you gotta be you gotta be in the gym working somewhere to get better, to get your end goal for cheerleading. So for me it's underrated. Well, and I feel like as a high school coach, and I don't know if you agree with this, but ⁓ not necessarily do I think that just 'cause you're in an all star team, you're gonna make my team. ⁓ But I do think that some of those girls, the technique has been taught to them for so long because they focus so much longer on those techniques that it's much easier for me as a coach to get them from point A to point B because they have that background. Now, do I have some kids that have never done all-star, all-star cheerleading that are still amazing? Absolutely. ⁓ but I feel like those are naturally talented kids that know where their strengths are. Or they came from gymnastics. Gymnastics. Facts. Yes. Mic drop. I love new gymnastics. Same. Gymnasts, you can always come to cheerleading. We'll take you anytime. All right. Full out. At practice? Overrated or underrated? Overrated or underrated? I'm gonna say Is this a hot take? Well, I don't know the perfect answer because I feel ⁓ passionately about both. ⁓ I think it's overrated and underrated. I think it's a fine line of you doing too much. Yes. ⁓ I think that's an important part to your process whenever you are doing things. I think, but I think sometimes people work so much on full outs that they're like, hey, let's go, let's go, let's go, that the kids aren't really able to work on their skills or get better in anything. Because they're just yeah, because they're just getting through it. Where you have to break it down by sections, you have to be able to like do like tumble throughs, stunt throughs. Hey, we're gonna work on just this section. I I don't think that you can only base off of fallouts. Now I do think it's the important thing for full outs is the conditioning part of it. Like if you can do this section and this section, combine it all in one, that's the hardest part of fallouts. Yeah. I mean at first I was like, wait, hot take, but now it makes sense how you're saying it. my first take was saying underrated, but now I'm thinking about it and for sure like it's fine line. ⁓ because you have some coaches out there that they wouldn't know like how to separate it and go do let's do a stunt through, a tumble through. And they all they know how to do is all right, let's do it again. All right, let's do it again. Okay, but what are we gonna do to change it to make it better when we do it again? So sometimes they abuse that for sure. I think I'm gonna go with the cheerleaders on this because I know what they would say. Overrated. Overrated. Overrated. The cheerleaders hate it. So okay, but I kind of disagree because my cheerleaders one time they were like, We did not go full out enough this season and that's why we didn't hit it safe. So can't relate to they might in the moment say that, but on the back And they're gonna say in the moment they would tell you overrated. And I can I I can I see both too. I see, you know, kind of like you described earlier, is I could see you doing too many fool outs and and you being sloppy and not really getting the job done that you're really looking for. But I I I think, you know, I think I'm gonna do a poll at one of the cheerleading practices. ⁓ I really want to because I I think, yeah, I think I'm gonna do a poll at cheerleading practice. I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna ask the kids to see what they say, and I bet. of them's gonna say, ⁓ I'll give it 80% of them's gonna say ⁓ Okay, let's do a poll Alatuna versus Roswell to ⁓ what our athletes say. We will do that. ⁓ listen, ⁓ can already stop. I can already hear some of my girls and their answers. ⁓ I don't think it's gonna look good for us. Well we'll see. We'll see. I I know it I know it dancers is that how tuna you ain't gotta ask me. They are like my little porcelain dolls, I always say. That's too much like they might break. Yeah. So here we go. Next one is winning rings and jackets. I will start. Yes. She's the most recent recent ring winner. I will say this. The way that just youth sports in general. It's not just cheerleading. Yeah, and I don't just mean like winning a ring at state either. I mean like No, we're talking about in general. We're talking in general. The way I feel about it is I think that we give a ring for everything. Like you get a ring, you get a ring. We're like Oprah Winfrey over here with rings. And it's kind of like taken it away. I will say my kids, they've worked really hard for a ring. And I was like, Hey, you get a ring, you get a ring. They were still excited about it, but I think like at what point, like I I don't know if this generation was a generation where they were at softball tournaments and getting rings for literally everything that they're doing. I don't I don't know when this started, but I will say as a coach, when I'm like, hey, I know what my kids did to get that ring. They worked so hard and to like be able to design the ring, it was like such an honor to be able to do that to represent our season. And then I go and I'm looking and I'm like, you know, little Johnny over there, he won his weekend baseball tournament and he got a ring. And I'm like worried about the future of what will the ring still motivate my kids? Because they have 38 in their metric. I mean what what does this state ring compared to just an ordinary hey I won a championship bracket in baseball or or I wanna summit ring like like like I know I know when in winning a world's ring is big. Yeah but but like winning a summit ring versus a state ring, like is the some kids value a summit ring over a state ring or I think that When it comes to like a state ring, yes. When it comes to Worlds and Summit, 'cause that's their level, that's their Big end. But like I think this is something new that I don't know when this started either. But just getting rings for cheer sport, which is that. Winning majors, winning that like I why? Why so many rings? And it's kind of funny because my daughter started Stingrays half year this past year, and mind you, she's five. But whenever she she got first place, she loved that ring. She loved it. But at first she looked at it and she's like, Where's what? Where is And I said, This is what you get. Instead of a trophy, you get a ring. And she goes, but why? And I'm like, well, here we go. Your state ring that you get. I to me it was so special because you did this with your neighbors, you did this with your community, you did this with people that you've grown up with. It wasn't like, hey, we've got this giant pool of kids. Like we made it work with our with our community. And to me, that's really special. And that's where it all starts. You have people moving from different states and countries to come. And it's like the best of the best. Versus high school, you gotta, as a coach, you have to take what you've got. Make it work. I'm not knocking the all-star because they do work so hard. They do deserve the rings. They do deserve the rings. But I do think we've gotten ring happy. Yeah. We're very ringing happy. As a society, not just cheerleading. It's jacket and ring happy. Yes. All right. The next one is all right. guess I should have went back and answered that one, but yes, I I think it's overrated. ⁓ Annette is ⁓ Wanted in this question. Food at competitions. Stop. I'm gonna let you We're talking food trucks. I think there's a competition we went to. We had Dunkin' Donuts, we had ice cream, funnel cakes. I mean you name it. Listen, maybe this is the fatty in me, but Shout out to Nami Pooh. Nom has coached with me so many years. ⁓ we used to call the different competitions where we had like the hospitality room. ⁓ hospitality room too. I forgot about that. I love a hospitality room. The vacation house. And let me shout out Mill Creek. They always had the best one. They had the whole entire layout there. I think at one point in time they even had the nothing bunk cakes. And listen, your girl is stressed. Are we gonna hit or are we not gonna hit? A spicy diet Coke and a cupcake before. You weren't worried when you're stuffing your face with a bunt cake. Well, and then afterwards, if I'm depressed, then I've got the bunk cake. Right. Then you probably ate all the bunk cakes. Listen, and we'll just take these home. Yes, and Nom Nom and I, we would just mug. Is it good? He's ⁓ yeah, it's good. I'm like, Okay, let's prep ourselves. So that's what at Alatoona, ⁓ the judges, they always like, ⁓ yeah, no, they have really good food there. And I'm like, Yeah, because I know how important the food is. It's very important. Yeah, they're important for the food for the judges. What about when I walk in the hospitality room and I'm just getting a a pub sub? Well, that's because you came at the wrong I I get ripped. Cheer coach husband, you don't really get as many. I'm there all day. Facts, same. And we need it more. Yeah. And then I'll I'll take some to go if I need it. But here's the thing. I'm too stressed out in the morning and I'm too sick to my stomach to actually pack food and eat. So Well, it's funny because I think like there are so many coaches that like don't even eat where but like I'm like I'm going the other thing I use like free food. Right. I'm like, I am looking forward to the hospitality room. I also think it's time for my kids to like have a minute without me like breathing down their necks. And so I'm like, hey, I'm gonna go like to the hospitality room. And then when you've got some dank food, I'm like, ⁓ yeah. But the concession stand food, I'm like, I don't know, because you basically got like Chick fil A, you've got And you've got candy, which I do love candy. But maybe we can create some more options for our ⁓ the spectators. I'm telling you. Next one we got is Pro Cheerleague. Okay, wait. So for people that don't know, ⁓ Pro Cheerleague just started last year, was their first season, and it is literally pro-cheerleading. Everyone's like, ⁓ my god, the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. It ain't cheerleaders. I'm sorry. ⁓ I think we can all agree dancers. ⁓ it is dancing. Yeah. ⁓ it's not cheerleading, and we've never had anything pro really. ⁓ and I think that the idea that they had was awesome. It was awesome to watch. lots of talent. I I think it's underrated. I think that there's a lot. of things when we talk about the boys and what they can bring, you can see. I mean that one guy did like four flips. And it didn't even count. Well then they're like, it's illegal. And I'm like, I'm sorry. Somebody can do something like that in a pro cheer league. It is should count. Well exactly and it's the highest they're trying to pitch it as the highest like level of cheerleading. Homeboy just did four. The highest level Yeah, I agree. I think it's interesting ⁓ I do think that we needed an avenue where you could compete at the professional level and cheerleading. I'm trying to find like what the solution is. Obviously, like the sport of stunt has started. I think that there's a lot of potential for that to turn into a professional league and to go and compete. Pr stunt is basically they are doing the exact same routine. So like Alatuna cheerleading and Roswell cheerleading, we would have the same routine. There are four quarters. So we would have, hey, where you can sub in your kids, where we're like, hey, we're gonna do stunts. She would put in her best stunners, I would put in my best stunners. We are going side by side doing the exact same stunts in that quarter. Execution. It's to me, it's very readable. It's the the spectator side of it, where the spectators have to really understand it for it to continue to grow and to be at that professional level. I think stunt has that where it's obvious if you're looking as a spectator, even if you know nothing about cheerleading, you're sitting here watching it side by side. I think that there's a lot of potential with that. Yes. Obviously that's a version of cheerleading. It's not cheerleading. It's called stunt. Yeah. ⁓ but I think I I don't know I don't know. I think that there's definitely gonna have to be some changes to pro cheer with what they're doing. I love that they are giving our kids an avenue to you compete at the professional level. I just think this was year one. I think year two is gonna be better and I think it's gonna continue to improve. Yeah. Well, I think Brandon was watching it and he was like, Wait, so it's the same routine? And I'm like, Well, yeah, like These are kids that are going to different colleges coming here. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, I think it's underrated. I think it's great that it gives an avenue for kids to to build skills just like being on the USA cheer team. Like it gives them to me it's like you play football, kids hopes and dreams is to make it to the NFL. Baseball is an MLB. Yeah. For cheer, it can be pro cheer. So can we talk about that? And there wasn't an avenue. Like at With baseball and football, right? You can't do college and pro at the same time. Like, does that is that where cheerleading is gonna go too? Because right now you can do both. Yeah. So good one. I don't know. I d I don't know the right answer to that, to be honest. Everybody give us big ratings so we can come back and discuss please. It would be great to ⁓ we want to continue to dive into this. The last question we have is dancing on the floor before awards. Annette, you I'm gonna let you take it because I know you feel passionate. I feel very passionate about this. I'll I'll bounce off your ideas, but you start. Hear me out. And shout out to the like the DJs that do this, but like I don't want to see the Cha Cha slide or what's that church one? I wanna know who won. Let's just go. Yep. I don't want to see time. Hey, big girl, back it. I don't want to see you back it up, babe. Agreed, agreed. We're all ready to get home. Parents are ready, coaches, athletes, all the stuff. Yes, it's like a dance party. I can have a dance party at home. Agreed. Well, I think as a parent the outside looking in, it's whatever the kids want to do. If they like if they like having fun. If they like having fun, the kids like having fun, then do it. And do your kids have fun doing the church? I think it's unrated. I mean, I guess. I mean when you look out there, all the kids get up there. You got some boring teens out there that sit on sit on their butts and don't do nothing. Right. And they look like a bunch of sore losers that they are. They probably don't win anyway. My brain is making sense here, guys. My kids I'd I'd encourage them to get up and dance. Well, because Brandon Gratz once. I appreciate ⁓ Jerry and Jeff Holsey out there playing the church clap. I do. It's just so many. I think we're numb to it. We're we're it's the same thing every Saturday. Now we'll start rolling into ⁓ out of our overrated, underrated segment. Okay. But here we go. This is something for y'all. How dangerous is stunting and the next qu I'll I'll add a few questions in this too is performing for crowds harder for boys and girls or and who handles the pressure better, boys or girls? This is a very loaded question. ⁓ I would say w what was the first part of first part is how dangerous is stunting and then we will talk about how ⁓ performing in front of crowds is harder for boys or girls and who You know, who probably carries the most pressure, the boys and the girls? ⁓ The fact that my athletic trainer came to me one year and said, Hey, ⁓ we get allotted 20 concussion tests for the school for the whole year. And ⁓ it's October and cheerleading has taken up all 20. And we had to buy more. Yes. I think that there's a lot of injuries and risk that come into throwing a body in the air. And then kids also like, I broke my nose with cheerleading. Yeah. I've seen a teeth, Reese Cromer's teeth fall out in a morning practice. and here's the thing, there was a video once that I saw that showed the impact that they were they were like comparing of someone getting hit in football, a professional football player, compared to the gravity and everything of a girl getting thrown in the air and her falling on the ground and that impact. And it was bigger, the cheer hit than it would have been the football hit. And everybody was like, No way. I even said, No way, no, it was But is that not concerning that like football, they've like had so much like you know, there's so many safety precautions that they've got to do and gear that they have to wear to keep them safe and like cheerleading. There is not. And I don't really see there ever being any, to be honest. I don't know that there is. I we you're gonna have the kids wear a full face mask. Yeah, we do have the concussion caps that we can wear whenever we're learning new stunts. Man, I don't know that a girl or a boy with this elbow flying down is is gonna be say by concussion caps. Well, and you and you teach all the kids that are under the flyer to catch no matter what. And some of them literally take that, I mean, they catch no matter what. If their f and their tooth falls out or they break their nose. It's And to even catch the girl coming down is so dangerous. Like to be the catcher. It's not easy. It really isn't. Yeah, no, it's it's very dangerous. I think it's, you know, there's so many things. It's like one little thing can go wrong and it's Catastrophic. Yeah. I think performance wise. Yeah, performance wise, can they handle the crowd harder and who who carries the pressure easier or better? Boys or girls? I think the boys carry it better, at least for me at Alatoona, because they're just so hyped to be there when they come out, they're just enjoying it. Versus my girls are playing it cool on the outside, but inside they're analyzing. and I feel like the boys just it's not that it means anything less for them. I just think that they're truly there. To have fun. And we tell them all the time, when you guys actually have fun and stop overthinking this, that's when you guys have the best performances. When you think what a boy has to do to be on a cheerleading team, like the things that they have to overcome, I think it just shows like how much they really love the sport. Yeah. And they're just excited to do it. I think girls are naturally overthinkers and so they're overthinking everything. ⁓ I was that way, like I was always very nervous, and I'm even more nervous as a coach because like I said, you can't do anything from those chairs. I think that boys that cheer Truly do love the sport. Yes. Because you have to. And if you think about it, my girls would always make fun of my boys because how excited they were for cheer. And I'm like, Do you remember when you were like five and you started cheerleading and how much of a they say that they're tryhards? Yeah. I'm like, that's how you guys were when you're younger. The boys are getting this now, and that's why they always want to be in the gym. That's why they always want to grow. They're hitting it at a different time. And it's it's fun to get to watch the boys fall in love with it because I tell them once you start, it's addicting. And I think guys are kind of like, Yah, let's. Run through a brick wall. Yeah. And like girls are kinda like, Hang on, let me like analyze the situation. Exactly. So I would say guys. I will. So I got two final questions for y'all. One I didn't even tell y'all I was gonna ask. But here's here is one one question before I ask y'all the question that I didn't even tell y'all about. Okay. Who's worse to deal with, parents or athletes? Is this a question? Kidding. I think Parents. I'm I'm gonna say I think, but really I should say I know parents. and I what at Roswell I do I I feel like I do a really good job as I give the parents the information that they need and then I say hey I'm gonna give everything else to your kid. So if you don't know the answer, ask your kid. Yeah. I do not tell parents like, hey, your kid needs to wear this to practice. Tell the kids that they need to wear that to practice. I will say parents are either absolutely wonderful wonderful or absolutely terrible. ⁓ but I think that parents have such an important influence of what their kid gets out of cheerleading and what when you think about like like like I said, we use cheerleading as a tool to teach young people about life. I wish all parents saw sports as the same way. Yeah. Because when you are creating excuses and you're putting blame on the coach and you're instead of like looking How is your kid accountable and what can your kid do? And sometimes, you know, sometimes it just don't does not work out the way that you want it to. Like I really, really wanted a lot of things in my life that did not work out because I wasn't good enough or I just I didn't have that. Yeah. And I think parents today want to come in and like, you know, solve all of their kids' problems. Yes. And so I think parents that do that are the hardest. Yes. Parents that support are. are the best they're they make it so much easier and they're someone like my favorite part about coaching because whenever I get to be on a village with parents of raising your child I love that and that's why I do what I do. Absolutely. I I can sum it up really quick in this is the fact that ⁓ I've learned what type of parent I do want to be and I've learned what parent I don't want to be when it comes to my own child. Yeah. I mean I I've seen I've seen like Carolina Sonda I've seen a really great parent and I've seen parents They are way too much involved. I mean, we're talking 14 to 18-year-old kids who who rely too much on their parents, and their parents are too involved. Yeah. But with that being said, hot quiz down the Question I didn't let y'all let y'all know. It's kind of authentic here. So here we are, Altoona Roswell, right? Yes. Both of y'all compete against each other in coed. Yeah. So how in the world are can y'all be friends in this? That's the only thing. And make it work because I mean in most in most instances, right? Like like if it was me and Brian, it was football, like I'd want to beat Brian, but you're sitting here next to your friend who won a state championship who you also competed against. Like how how does all this work and how can you make this a a friendship when you're trying to compete and you technically you You wanna be better than her and she also wants to be better than you. Yeah, I I feel like it is ⁓ very interesting because we I told her when she joined Code, I was like, dang it. ⁓ but I think that it is a rare thing. I think that out of a lot of people in the world She is one of the few that can truly understand what I go through day in and day out in the field that we're in. and the village that we've created for ourselves in cheerleading and coaching. they are my support system when it comes to a bad coaching day, a good coaching day, life, I mean, in general. ⁓ I didn't see it as a competition. if anything, my kids knew too, like how close we were with friends that it was never like we would joke around and be like, bum, Roswell. And made we try to make funny TikToks against the I mean what I mean going back to saying that though, both your teams both cheered for each other in the state. Yeah, y'all ain't just cheer for each other, y'all cheered for other teams as well. But my kids specifically were like, we want to go and see Alatuna at sectional. So they were like, can we leave our classroom, go in the gym, watch him? I was like, Yes. And then we've got to go back in and like do our thing. Because here's the thing, here's how I see it. ⁓ I don't want to ever win by being rude, being spiteful, being ⁓ mean, wishing bad upon teams. Like if I wanna win something, I wanna win knowing that I Against the best. ⁓ and with Caroline, that was the case. I knew Caroline and I both knew. ⁓ I would tell her, I'm like, Caroline, no, I need you to comment down. We need help this weekend. I need you comment down a little bit. ⁓ but it got to a point too that she and I just started showing each other videos. Yeah. And I would be like, Caroline, why are you throwing that pass? And she's like, What do you mean? I'm like, Caroline, I don't need you to throw that pass. And if I wanted to be spiteful and throw the pass. But what does that do? ⁓ I also believe in like good karma and bad karma. And what are we teaching these kids? Like sportsmanship goes a longer way than competitiveness. And I think that's I'm very competitive. Yeah, don't say don't get it twisted. But I also think that no good is gonna come from being those coaches that are against each other and just want the demise of someone. ⁓ and it just I I mean, it helped me. I would ask her, hey, is there something that I don't see or same? Vice versa. and that's like Like I said, there's only a few of us that are crazy enough to do this nonstop and understand. Like Brandon, he hears all the stories all the time, but Brandon can only offer so many solutions versus someone that's in it every day. But I also think like our lives are already so hard. Like what we do is so hard and it's lonely at times. Like you're sitting there and you're like, I feel like a crazy person. And then like my friends that have normal jobs and normal lives, they look at me like, What are you doing? Like you're spending your like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays. Saturday with your kids and like for how much money? And they're like laughing at me, like it's it's a hobby, but it's also a calling and it's a passion. Yeah. And then I'm like, is my calling on this earth is it crazy? And then I look at my friends like a net of like that's also her calling. And I'm like, we're not crazy, like we are doing this for and so it's like our lives are already hard, our jobs are already hard. Why do we why would we try to make it harder on each other? Do I want to beat a net? Yes. Does she want to beat me? Yes, absolutely. Like we don't lose the competitiveness by also still having good sportsmanship and there's a way to be good examples. I would have peed myself by being y'all. Thank you. well that kind of concludes that we're gonna I'm gonna roll into a little bit of sports because we are yeah half sports a little bit. USA Soccer. Yeah. Did you watch it? No. Y'all are killing me. I told Annette. I was like, USA, I was so pumped for the USA game. I was like, Annette, nine o'clock comes, we're turning the game on, we're watching. And I'm not even I'm not even that big of a soccer fan. I was telling somebody the other day that when the World Cup comes on, we're watching. Okay, but here's the thing. I I am a soccer fan. My family are soccer people. ⁓ He was walking around going, you SA, and me and Gabby are like, you're so weird. ⁓ here's the difference from old me and new me. I am too tired. I have kids. I really could care less. Just give me the like summary. Did we win or did we lose? Dude. USA soccer game was awesome, and I was all about hype. And it was cool. So did we win? We did. Absolutely. Did we win? Okay, cool. You let me know. But I do love all the World Cup stuff. It's just, you know, I'm a mother. All right. So. The Braves. The Braves still running hot. We got Stroder. He's going down hurting. It looks like he's probably gonna be out for the year. If you guys didn't see on social media, Big Brian was down there at the beach this weekend or at the beach, released another video of doubling down on his acuna on his akuna overrated underrating. He's still telling you he's overrated. Okay, listen, I don't know that much. I just go with it. I no I agree. Like Homeboys always. But when he's not her, like he's chef's guess. Okay. We're gonna have to pull up facts. Okay. He's always hurt. The the next thing is ⁓ you know, as y'all know, we're huge Georgia fans here. Me and Brian are the Bulldogs just beat Texas. ⁓ yes. In Omaha for the first game. My man Joey pitched a complete game, fifteen K strikeouts, dude. And college baseball now. 15Ks, the dude pitched a complete game. That's daggum near unheard of. Dagum good. ⁓ that concludes our show for this week. If you like our podcast or you can think of someone who would enjoy our podcast, send our podcast their way. Also, don't forget to follow us on all social medias, rate us and follow us on whatever platform you listen on. We appreciate Annette coming on a second time and Caroline joining us. And also ⁓ Caroline also works for a cheer company called Rebel. Do you wanna give them a little shout out on what you're doing over here? I think ⁓ Rebel, I'm a school rep. ⁓ Rebel is incredible because it it literally the Options are unlimited. If you can dream it, we can create it. ⁓ I say cheerleading is life, and ⁓ I think that what they wear, like I I live by this motto, like what I am in when I look good, I feel good, when I feel good, I perform well. And I think the same thing with our cheerleaders and what we are able to do, it's just a different way than it's ever been done before. And I think that we have so much that we are ⁓ that's going to be happening in the next year that I I'm really excited to roll out. But yeah, no, ⁓ cheerleading is life and we can create if you can think, if you can dream it, we can create it. Yes. I agree. And with that being said, typically this is being my brother's part, but I want to do it. Okay. Yes. And with that being said, see y'all.