speaker-0: Welcome to Life by Design. I'm your host, Robin, and I am thrilled to welcome you to this space for real conversations about how we live, how we show up day in and day out. Because the quality of our life is shaped by our habits. What we do in ordinary time allows us to be extraordinary. We can unpack what it takes to truly live well and be well in real life. Welcome to Life by Design. And I'm just so excited that you're here. Marissa, it is so exciting to be able to have a conversation in real life together about all the good work that you're up to these days and things that are top of mind for you. So thanks for joining me on the podcast.

speaker-1: Thank you so much for having me. I've been waiting for this moment to get you and I in a room. Yeah. So we can chat. And truth be told, we've been chatting all morning.

speaker-0: We've been chatting for a very, very long time. And it was one of those moments where we were like we needed to hit record like three hours ago to capture the pre-conversation. But I'm glad we're here now. And I would love to hear just you have had some big things cooking. It was amazing to see you on such a huge stage across Canada hosting the art of leadership. So congratulations on that. And seeing you in your element as an MC and just how you're able to do that. So Other y tell us about that and what other things that you're up to these days.

speaker-1: Well it's very kind of you. I know that you've been on that stage before too. ⁓ I love ⁓ Interviewing, hosting, moderating. It's so much fun to be on stage, but to make other people feel comfortable on that stage. I love teeing up other people's stories. Yes. I could lean in and I mean that's why I have a podcast. It's probably why you have a podcast. I could just lean in and listen to people all day. People have amazing stories. There's so much to learn. And getting on that stage and facilitating conversations, connection, looking out into an audience and seeing the nodding and people get it. And then all of a sudden they write something down and you know the takeaways. So I I love that. I I am so grateful to be able to be building a career around something I'm so passionate about. ⁓ I love executive coaching. I do a lot of that as well, but this whole other element of You know, MCing and hosting and just trying to curate these incredible experiences for our clients and for the audience. It's something I take so seriously. but I love it so much. And honestly, it's it's given me the chance to work with amazing speakers and incredible people like you and cross paths with amazing humans. So it's a win-win all around. And so this is a new chapter that I'm diving into headfirst. And it's been a lot of fun.

speaker-0: Well, it's wonderful. And I love that idea about that you had tremendous success in your kind of first iteration of career. And I love that you are another example that it wasn't as if something was like super rocky or bumpy, but you were just ready for a new challenge. And we often talk about that as like the second summit, right? So you summited the first, you had an amazing career and in finance. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, what's next? And not that Anything's wrong with staying where you are, but you felt this calling to, I think what I heard you say is like just kind of spread that message, just being able to bring more, invite more people to that conversation. And especially right now where we see, for example, like loneliness r right skyrocketing. We see like idea of like disconnection. And what you are doing is you are connecting, you are bringing people back into community, which is just so beautiful to witness and the example you're setting for all of us.

speaker-1: Well, thank you. I mean, you're doing the same thing, which is why I follow you, which is why I adore you, which is why I consume all your content. Thank you. Yeah, I think there's something that we are craving that we maybe don't even realize. And I think when I was in the corporate world, I loved it. I have nothing against it. People say to me, you know, aren't you glad you left the corporate world? I say, No, it was a it was a wonderful chapter in my life. I met so many wonderful people. And that part of my life is fueling this part of my life. Exactly. ⁓ but yeah, it's it's something about this desire to kind of You know, when you have that voice in the back of your head that's like, you could be doing more, you could be doing something different. There's you have more to offer, you have more people that you could impact. And I think that was something that nagged me for a while. I just couldn't figure out what that looked like, right? I mean, I always wish that I knew exactly what that was so I could just run headfirst in that direction. but it was always just a feeling that I had. And so now as I embark on this next chapter, and I'm constantly encouraging people to consider that as well, right? Just because you started here doesn't mean you're gonna up here. Yeah. And your next chapter could look completely different and it can sound insane. Of course everyone in my life thought I was nuts when I was making this transition. Yeah. Including my, you know, eleven year old daughter at the time who started crying because she's like, ⁓ my God, mommy's not gonna have a job. What are we gonna do? but I think it's I think I had to go out and do the brave thing, do the scary thing that I really want everyone else to do too. So I kind of had to do it first and wade my way through the uncertainty and the fear and the doubt to now be able to be in a position to get on stages, to get in front of amazing people and tell them, yes, you are capable. Yes, there is another chapter. And so living it was a big part of being able to speak from a place of of honesty and experience and truth that hopefully resonates with people.

speaker-0: Absolutely. And that I like to think of it as like that's hard earned wisdom. This isn't just like something that like fell on your lap and you picked up a second career and like let's run with it. Like this is something that you envisioned, you co-created with this support of your family and use those previous relationships, as you said, to again create this whole new that doesn't have a traditional like job description. It's not like you go to school for X and then you get to do Y. Like you're like inventing it and creating it at on the fly, which is just so remarkable because it does speak to this idea that so often we crave certainty. And that's why I think we stay in positions perhaps or jobs, because they feel very predictable and they feel very certain. And supporting groups and communities when they, for example, have gone through a huge restructuring or people have been laid off, they're almost blindsided and they are blindsided a lot of time. Because they never thought that they could be replaced. They didn't realize that even these permanent tenure track positions that actually changes. And when we put all of our ability to look after ourselves with our livelihood in the hands of one organization, institution, profession, or a field, we actually are in a position where actually giving up a lot of control. Being able to bet on yourself, being able to co-create something, as we said, is really significant. And I think that sometimes the certainty that people are holding on to is a wee bit of an illusion. That's why when things go off kind of off course, people really, really struggle. And the other piece that I would love to hear your thoughts on is that piece around how we identify as these people in, in your case, in corporate. My case was in the academy. Like we identify by our roles. And when we are in these positions of a new career or second summit. Sometimes it's not really easy to explain what we're doing. You've already said you're moderating, executive coaching, you are speaking. Like you are doing all of these things. So for example, when someone sits next to you on a plane and says, So what do you do? Right. I tell people I study behavior. ⁓ right. And then usually that quiet them down because they think I'm going to study them the entire flight. Right. I said I'm yeah, I study behavior. ⁓ and then they just get very self-conscious and usually kind of keep to themselves.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: ⁓ but again, this idea of like when you don't have a job description per se, you don't have a traditional, I am somebody who does this, how do you start to navigate that uncertainty? And just also that we don't know what the future holds in that case.

speaker-1: That's the hardest part because we we either are inheriting these labels because they're very, you know, traditional. You're a teacher, you're this. So we inherit them based on what it is. Yeah. And we start to fall into what we think that role should be. And then, you know, you and I've talked about this idea of shoulding all over the place. Teachers act this way, CEOs act this way. instead of stopping and pausing, which for a lot of people I realize is very hard to do. It's it's it's a privilege in a lot of ways to be able to stop and self-reflect and go, what do I really want to do? And how do I make this what I want it to be? Yeah. And you and I were talking about this earlier is that you may be someone who craves the n you know, and wants to teach people and wants to educate. But you don't have to be a teacher to be an educator. Right. ⁓ I wanted to just help people. And when I was applying to universities, I was originally doing it pre-med. I wanted to be a doctor and switch to the last minute, thank goodness. ⁓ I love doctors, but that was too much schooling for me. And but I realized, wow, I don't have to be a doctor to help people. And so I think we get caught in these personas that number one, we start to identify with what I should be doing in this role, the expectations are of someone in this role. And then I think we really get stuck in the idea of, well, I'm a teacher. I could never be a insert crazy idea or goal or or passion that you might really have. And then there's always the the certainty, but also the comfort. Of and the reality of you know, you can't pay your bills with dreams and wishes. Yes. So, and golden handcuffs is a is a real thing. You know, you've got steady money coming in, you've got a pension, you've got benefits. How do you just stop and pivot and kind of go all in on yourself? And and and and that's a hard thing to do. But the reality is people do it every single day. They do. And as you mentioned, companies are doing it to people every single day. You know, you can love your job, but you always have to remember that. The company your job will never love you as much as you love it. A hundred percent. It's it cannot it cannot be fully reciprocal. And I'm not telling people to slack and not give it your all, but you need to understand the reality of the relationship that you're in. And I had a client say to me the other day, she goes, You know, I just I know my company's not coming to my funeral. Mm-hmm. And I said, That's interesting. I was like, What do you mean by that? And she goes, Well I think I need to start defining what legacy and significance and impact means to me. Yes. As opposed to what it means to my company to be able to maintain my job on their terms as opposed to living my life on mine. Yes. And sometimes those intersect wonderfully. Sometimes people are in jobs where it's very fulfilling and they're very much in alignment with what they're doing. And other times it's a disconnect. Yeah. And you really are called to do something else, or at least you're just not in it to do this thing anymore. And that's a tough leap to make because we have now identified. I know for the longest time people come up to me in the community, ⁓ you're Marissa from in certain the company that I used to work for. Yes. ⁓ and I would chuckle because I go, Yep, that's me. Yeah. And because people just put you in these places. But we need to slowly pull ourselves out of those places and get really comfortable creating new spaces and places to be.

speaker-0: Absolutely. And recognizing that that uncomfortableness is because it's different and new, not because we're not able or we're not qualified. Yeah. Right. That's that's the piece that I kind of always kind of go back to. And what you're saying, what your client said, it's so, it's so insightful. I still recall and I've shared this story before where you know I was at an institution and there was a person who literally died at their desk. Like they literally died at the desk. And I recall that like that job posting went up very quick. And having this moment of just like, you have to be kidding me. And I understand that the job that that person was doing had to continue. Of course. But it's just we're so replaceable. And I love when people say to me, ⁓ Robin, it would take five people to replace me at my job. I'm so good. It's like great, you're so replaceable. But there's five people. Yeah. But there are a few sacred relationships that were not replaceable.

speaker-1: Find five people in the replacement.

speaker-0: And I think that there's this misconception that we have to like give everything and then we'll be able to spend time with our family or our loved ones. And I'm sure you've you've heard this analogy as well, you know, life is short. It's like it is, and it's also super long when you're with the wrong people or in the wrong place. And my invitation for people is to recognize that if you have that like that wee bit of restlessness or just that idea that I imagine there'd be a different way to create a lifestyle and a livelihood. ⁓ you have that for a reason. And there's some people who are kind of at their place and they're completely content and they are having a great go. That's amazing for you. It's not saying we all have to go find that second summit, but for those who do feel that there's just that piece where there's something, there's something else, that isn't selfish. It is literally that we have work to do. And I think that we're these instruments and Work needs to be done perhaps in another place, another community.

speaker-1: I say it all the time, as an entrepreneur, it's not easier, but it's better. Yeah. There's a misconception that, ⁓ you have control of your calendar or you can do what you want to do anyway. Sure. I mean, no one's nobody's bossing me around, which is good and bad. Because nobody is telling me what to do. No one's bossing me around. Yes. So I always say, like, if you want to do it, it's because you really want to do it. And it is It is a wonderfully rewarding thing to bet on yourself and go all in. And you know, and I always tell people this, this, the next summit does not have to be entrepreneurship. You don't have to go out on your own. You can pick a drastically different career. You can ⁓ take a pause and pivot and really and think about what that next phase looks like. So I do think that ⁓ that idea is, and and you mentioned it earlier. I always think about that, that idea of the discomfort. I tell people all the time. Being nervous and being excited feel the exact same way. And why why do we always default to, ⁓ this is not a good feeling, this is this is bad, as opposed to, ⁓ there are those butterflies telling me this is going to be great. So yeah, I think I would love for more people to take the time to think about, am I where I really want to be? Or am I kind of just moving through life as I feel I should? Because there there is more if you want more, but you also don't have to do more. And I think that's where

speaker-0: reaction in your body. Yeah.

speaker-1: People need to decide where they're at and there's a season. Maybe this is a season not to do more, but maybe you're approaching one where you will feel better equipped in life to be able to go after that thing. If you're lucky enough to know what that thing is.

speaker-0: So if somebody's listening and being like, yes, right, they're nodding along, they're putting up their hand, being like, Marissa, this is me, yes. And this is where we're going to tap into your first summit. If their issue is that my financial situation doesn't give me any freedom or flexibility to be able to pursue that thing in my heart that I really want to pursue, what would you advise or suggest that they do, even with perhaps a shorter runway or a bit of a longer runway of time, if they say, I do have this dream in my heart. I do want to do this n second career, this different thing, but financially I'm so so stuck with where I'm in right now. Where would you suggest that they could start building an exit strategy?

speaker-1: They should plant a money tree. Yes. Well, I feel like that's what holds most people back is the actual practicality. Exactly. And the financial restrictions of again, I I need to pay my bills. So what does that look like? So a couple of things. I always

speaker-0: Planto, exactly, absolutely.

speaker-1: Encourage people to find people who maybe are further along the journey than them. Yes. So people who maybe are doing something that you want to do or are called to do. And it may not be the exact same thing, but maybe it's entrepreneurship, maybe ⁓ something a little more artistic, or maybe just diving into a new career. Find someone who's little bit further down the path than you and talk to them. Understand the journey, understand where they can provide insights to maybe shorten your learning curve. Exactly. Right. So so maybe it took them three years to get up and running, maybe with some insights and by surrounding yourself with people who had gone before you, you can then find a way to make this happen in perhaps a year. Yeah. The second thing I would say is you don't want to flip a switch right away. There are people out there giving advice to people to say, go all in. Just rack up your credit cards, go all in, bet on yourself. If you have nothing to lose, then you're not going to gain. I mean, all those words of they're not wisdom because you know you will lose your house and you will affect your family. You may have to do these things in tandem.

speaker-0: All in. Like yeah.

speaker-1: Right. You may have to do both. You may have to find a way to toggle up, toggle down the parts that you want to do a little bit more of. ⁓ You may just have to find a way to assume you're in that position, to assume you're in the role, act as if we've heard all these things before. But you may have to live a little bit of a double life in the bit, not forever. But most entrepreneurs, most people who are shifting careers, most people are going back to school to, you know, do something different, they're doing it at the same time while they're working. And I would say find support in that. In your current role or with your family to say things are going to look a certain way for a year. Or I need help with this. Again, the situations are different, but then that's the last piece. You have to surround yourself with help. Something's got to give. Yeah. Right. So if you can find a way to go through this journey with somebody else who can support you short-term, long term, if you can partner in the beginning from a learning perspective, from a collaboration perspective to shared resource model, ⁓ but also just your friends and family, your village, your people. Right. Can they maybe step up and support you in ways where you have to pull it back just a little bit, but you'll have their understanding and they'll have your back. So it's it's I highly recommend not going head first, but kind of slowly transitioning, but acting as if and moving confidently in that direction. But money is something that generally stalls people. but it's a it it should be a slow ⁓ or should say a short transition if you plan it properly.

speaker-0: Yeah, I absolutely appreciate that. And I I love so many of those threads and I'd love to pull on them. And you know, I know personally for me, again, that piece of looking to for me was Dr. Greg. He was a few years ahead of me in the process. He had left the academy. He had started his own company. And and again, the amount of learning that happens. And we we jokingly kind of refer to things sometimes as like, you know, prison bartering where it was like, Hey dude, can you help me? Like this and this, right? We were exchanging, ⁓ exchanging ideas, exchanging contacts, like building each other up at different seasons in different ways and places and spaces. And I think so often there's that idea that, especially if we took entrepreneurship, that this is like a solo pursuit. And you know, that again, that takes a village, but we also have to be a villager. Right. So ensuring that we're open to that learning, we're taking some of those learning cuts where we're able to again ex ⁓ you know, almost like expediate the process. But the other piece too, and that one of the things we often talk about, especially in psychology around in occupational psychology about changing career. Is this idea that we want to be in a position where we are able to kind of say with some confidence that if something happens dramatically, at all of a sudden the money stuff isn't as significant as it feels before that incident. So for example, if there was a diagnosis, if there was, you know, if we had a a time clock on, you know, you have three years left. money would not be the variable that we would put at the forefront. So it's quite interesting. When we're in forced decisions, we don't hold money to the same level. We have this illusion of time, which means that, you know, if I'll get it, you know, I'll get all these bills paid and then I'll do this, or I'll finish this milestone and then I'll do that, that when-then trap. But it I find it so remarkable that when people are given these, you know, timelines, ⁓ not by choice often, yeah, money is not at the top of the list of what's holding them back. So to me, that's an insight that perspective we can borrow from people who've had that lived experience.

speaker-1: Yeah, it's just a good excuse. Yeah. Because most people's relationship with money is not as strong as it probably should be. Financial literacy is a rare trait. Most people, if you just out of the blue said to someone, how much money do you spend every month on groceries? How much people would have to literally stop. There are people who know their numbers. Yes. ⁓ there are people who don't know their numbers. And there is a, you know, depending on your own personal relationship with money, it could affect a lot of important decisions in your life. And not just your career or your purpose to your point. It's it's how you take care of yourself, how you take care of those around you, how you show up. I mean, I could go all day on, you know, financial literacy and and financial well being and how it affects just overall well being. And if you have a you know, a a fear, a scarcity mindset with money, you will show up with the scarcity mindset in most things that you do. Absolutely. ⁓ if you have an abundance mindset, if you have a real understanding of where money's coming from, how much is coming in, how much is going out, and that you feel you are in control of that rather than money is it's just happening to me. I don't know where my money goes. I don't know how did we have nothing left. ⁓ that's so then that's generally how you're gonna show up in life. Your relationship with money is very much correlated to how you show up and deal with life. And I think your perspective, what you're saying, is so powerful because sometimes when life happens to you and takes away the choice, it's amazing how you show up and money becomes, of course, not irrelevant, but it's not the one thing that's tethering you to where you are versus where you

speaker-0: Absolutely and how you show up on your days for sure. Thank you for sharing that. And what also I hear and I see as well is this idea that, you know, people think, you know, money is I love that you said that kind of go to excuse. Yeah. Right. And I often ask people in coaching and be like, okay, so what's your go to excuse? Is it time? Is it money? Is it energy? Is it relationships? Is it you know, sometimes I even see people who use their trauma as this memorial that if I healed or if I got better, then that would be doing a disservice to this memorial that I've created, which has a, you know, This this place and time. And I appreciate all of those. And I think people are always in a position where they are only ready for so much. And sometimes this is too much and they have to find ways into it. And what I also know is that when we do have that wee bit of agency where we are willing to take some risk, risk is different than danger, right? So we might be taking some risk occupationally and financially. It doesn't mean we're putting our family in danger. And the reality is that money is a renewable resource. You can go make more. You can go back to your previous career. However, our time is not refundable.

speaker-1: And if you think about people who maybe are a little bit further down the journey of life, not just career-wise. They'll also tell you that there's certain things you need to do at certain times of your life that make more sense. Right. There's certain type I'll never forget my father during ⁓ COVID. He was saying, you know, my mom your mom and I are missing out on good travel years right now. Right. I of course, they're very fortunate and privileged to be able to do that. But they said, you know, eventually we're gonna be stuck on a cruise ship and buses and someone's gonna be wheeling us around. They said, you know, if we wanna do the type of travel now that requires able bodies, able minds, you know, and and realistically he goes, you know, we probably should have done this when we were younger. We didn't Think that way back then we were so anxious to get our family going and our careers. But there's also certain things that make more sense at different stages of your life. And it's not just an age thing. Yes. It's really what you have going on, the season that you're in. It makes more sense to tackle certain things or make certain sacrifices or take certain risks. Certain risks in different phases of your life feel way different in terms of risk levels, depending on where you're at and what's going on. Yeah. ⁓ sometimes those risks just seem necessary, and other times they seem irresponsible. So I think it's it's also understanding the stage and the phase that you're at 'cause I think people don't give themselves enough credit to feel like to understand that they're just in a season or they're in a phase and this is not you forever. If you look back, you've evolved. You you weren't I mean, I hope you weren't always this way. I hope you've evolved but is kind of giving yourself credit to where you where you've come from there. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0: Balls? Yeah. Sure. And I and I do also think I love that piece around seasons and these kind of milestones throughout the seasons. And it also reminds me of this kind of idea that for some people, you know, they have their kind of go-to excuses, perhaps, which are valid in their own way. They have big feelings attached to it. And on the other piece, I also see this idea where people don't really like change. And we hear people all the time say, like, ⁓ we're not very good at change. I don't really like change. I see that all the time working with organizations and groups where it's like we need change management strategists. We need a change. Like people get a lot. Pretty worked up about change. And I find it kind of interesting because I'm somebody who loves change. Like I welcome I love predictability and stability, but I also like to switch it up. And when the folks say to me, like, ⁓ I, you know, really don't do change well, Robin, it's like, how do you feel on vacation when you're in a new environment, new resources, like all the new weather, all the new things? Then they're ⁓ I love going on. It's like you actually really like change. You like certain types of change. Yes. Right. And so just kind of again talking yourself through this idea that like change, it's it, there's a lot of even privilege and opportunity in change and setting yourself up with new goals, new responsibilities actually could be really amazing. And I always love seeing people on the other side of that decision because I have never heard somebody say, I wish I stayed there longer. I wish I stuck it out. I wish I thugged it out. Exactly. But thinking about changing careers, I I have yet to meet somebody who says, I wish I would have thugged it out for the under that bad boss for an extra six years. Like that would have been the sweet spot to leave. Nobody wants to do it. And more often than not, I hear, why didn't I do it sooner? Yes. And why did I like why was I so scared? Like I love working this hard for myself. I love working this hard and being, you know, in control. Yep. of of my future, of my, you know, even of just like of the business I'm building, of the team that I'm spending time with, the people I get to work with. There's an amazing amount of freedom that comes with betting on yourself like that. And I feel like it'd be remiss if I I didn't share the story where I remember coming home after my, I believe it was my third or fourth dean at the time at the university. And it was my our next strategic plan. We're we're gonna fix it, right? Every, you know, let's get excited. We're gonna do another scrap plan. And I came home and I was in a mood. And I remember sitting at the table and Hunter at the time, I think he would have been about fourteen, fifteen. He he's like, ⁓ you know, he said to me, he goes, you know, mom, can I can I tell you about something? And I was like, Of course. And he said, I noticed like you're in a mood. It's like, great. Well, we named it. Good. Yes, I'm in a mood. And he said to me, he goes, Do you remember when I was young? Which I love when like the teenagers like, Do you remember when I was young? It's like, yes, it was not long ago. And he said, You told me that I could do anything when I grew up if I had the right attitude. And I put in the work. Like you said, mom, you can you like you told me that. He goes, Is that still true? And I'm like, Yeah, Hunter, that's still true. If you have the right attitude and you put in the work, I think you can pretty much do anything you set your mind to. And and he said to me, Well, why can't you? Like, why can't you? Like you go. It's like, Why are you why are you here? Like and he said, What would it take? And I said, Well, you know, it's like I and at that time I'd worked so hard to go from, you know, high school dropout to You know, somebody was employed by the academy and I'm just like, well, this is the dream job. And I had this realization that, but what if the dream job is killing you? Yeah. And you're missing your children's childhood because of it. And it served a season. It was amazing for a season. But I remember recognizing that I I wanted to bet on myself. And I wanted to again be the kind of that commander of my own academic and journey in terms of being able to take that story back and not letting me be defined. in that scenario anymore, I could let go of that identity and start fighting for myself. And I even remember Hunter saying, like, Mama, no one's gonna work harder for this family than you will. Like I bet on you, like every single time. Like let's get this ⁓ I hear you. There you go. And ⁓ and so again it's this idea that sometimes we feel stuck and there's a season where it makes sense, but then there's also a season where we get to kind of reimagine what's possible.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: And if that idea makes you feel like a wee bit wobbly, it's supposed to. Yes. Because it's new.

speaker-1: If you're not terrified, you're you're doing something wrong. And and I love safe. You bring up this idea of, you know, I think a lot of people think that success that you need to be a little bit miserable to achieve it. Yeah. That if it's not hard or gruesome or torturous, that if it comes a little too easy to you, because we do get taught that all the time. ⁓ the best things in life. And I do think there's a certain truth to that. You have to work for the good things. Sometimes on the other side of those tough moments, there's wonderful things. But I do think we've created a little bit of a culture now of

speaker-0: Totally. Yes.

speaker-1: suffering and you know, there's no work life harmony anymore. It's like all in and but that is the narrative where in order to achieve this thing, there has to be, you know, we you we see it on the internet all the time, consistency, heart, all these things. But there's this whole other side of it. There's this whole other side of success. Especially once you achieve things or you're on the right path or you feel really aligned with what you're doing, you realize you go, ⁓ it doesn't have to be torture. I don't have to sacrifice my soul in a job. Yes. This should be the best job. Why do I hate it so much? Or exactly this should be the d best job. Why is it slowly killing me? ⁓ because I think we there's just it's too still too much of a narrative out there around well, if if you want great things, if you want success, you have to work hard with the subtitle of, you know, almost kill yourself. But I I I am more certain now than ever before that success is the exact opposite of that.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Is like, don't you want to be the person who builds this dream life, this amazing career, and do it in 20 hours a week? Like restful nights and a perfectly balanced day. Like, isn't that what we're striving for? Or do you want to be the person chasing their own tail, who's miserable, who's unhealthy? Why do we paint that the picture of success?

speaker-0: Why not? Yeah. ⁓ I love this. And I I recall recently working with someone and they, you know, asked me, you know, c give me a, you know, kind of a breakdown of your typical day. And I gave them a pr typical day breakdown and and I said, you know, so essentially like I have like three really deep hours of time on task and I get all of this done in essentially these three hour blocks. And that's all I work in a day. Despite like travel and whatnot. I said I I work in three hour blocks. And and they're like, ⁓ my gosh, if you got that much done in three hours, can you imagine if we could just get you up to four hours? How much more you would get done. And I looked at the person, I'm like, dude, I get nothing done. I would like It would be literally so much protest behavior where if you are telling me that I have to put in that extra hour and grind out and squeeze out just a wee bit more productivity, you're gonna get like none. And I've learned about myself with how my ADHD manifests, my personality, my temperament, I can do what could take eight hours. But if you give me a block of three hours, time on task. In my little bunker of focus, I I get it done and I I don't want more hours. I don't, I don't want more work. And I know sometimes like, you know, why are you manifesting not wanting more work? It's like, no, because you get to a point where you're just like, This is the flow and the rhythm that I really, really like my life to be. And trying to put more in it, it'sn't gonna work. To it's six. Right.

speaker-1: that's success. I I as I used to wear it as a badge of honor and be like, ⁓ I'm so busy. I w I didn't go home from work until late. And that became the narrative, right? If you are a successful person, you're telling everyone how busy you are. That's right. You're telling everyone how eight, not how productive you are, which what you just talked about was how productive you are, that you can get eight hours done in three hours. Yes. I have learned to function a similar way. Yes. Mainly because not because I wasn't capable before, but because I thought if I only did three hours of work. That I was somehow slacking or that I was lazy or that I wasn't perform like what I should be filling all these hours. I should be coming home late from work. I should be doing all the things. Shoulding again, shoulding all over all over again. I didn't want to do those things. I thought I should do them. So it was really just a mental block to be like, less is more. Less can be more if you figure out how to do it right. And if you figure out how tell yourself that those times in between are what allow you to really

speaker-0: But it's like you're all

speaker-1: squeeze like isn't that amazing to squeeze eight hours into three? Yeah. That's the magic. That's success. And then what you do outside of that, if you decide to I mean you're still working and doing other things. But knowing that that is that is what really pulling it off and and achieving success is is being able to be super efficient, super productive, not spinning your wheels. Yes. But you've got to get there mentally. Absolutely.

speaker-0: Absolutely. I absolutely love this. And to to that piece about, you know, what we're supposed to do, what it's supposed to look like, I think is such a big one because, you know, as soon as someone hears that I have a three hour workday, they're like, You're you're so lazy. Right. Like there's all these like associations with it. And then they'll come back and say, okay, but wow, you have this like super special relationship with your three kids. And like yeah, because I do these work blocks. Right. Right. It's like because I I put currency in those relationships. That doesn't happen by chance. It happens by the choices. That I make. And do you know I've recently had just two people. one of them I was doing some executive coaching with, another one was just a woman who we've crossed paths several times. And I saw her at an event and she came up to me and she just said, I I just want to thank you, Robin. She said, My son's graduating college. I looked at the calendar, I had an event, I assumed I wasn't gonna go. He assumed that I wasn't gonna go. And she said in that moment, she all of a sudden was just like, No, right? She's like, and she even said, like Robin would not miss this. And I'm like, You're right. I wouldn't even miss your kid's grad, right? Yeah. I'll be I'll be Robin. I will be there. And this kind of idea of just, you know, the fact that I she said, You gave me permission. And I was like, Woman, you don't need my permission to show up for your kid. And I tell you, if you're ever in a position where you have to pick between work and your family system, always pick your family. It matters

speaker-1: Yeah. That matter to you. Celebrating the wrong things. I totally agree. That's great advice. And I think people should should make a list of all the things they're doing because they feel they should. Yeah. That's that's the that's the first column that needs to go. Yeah. And then the things you need to do and want to do, that's more difficult. The needing sometimes are essential behaviors that or tasks that need to happen.

speaker-0: Always. So I see that. Yes.

speaker-1: And the wanting what's standing in the way truly from you doing the things that you want. But that should category is holding you back. And it's not likely the logistics of it. It's likely the mindset that you've created around what you think you need to be, the story that you're telling yourself around I'm an entrepreneur, I should do this, or I'm a teacher, I should do this. I'm a corporate executive, I should do this. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah. Marissa, I could talk to you for days. I hope this is literally just I think this is our second time on the podcast. Like I'm looking forward to the third or perhaps this needs to just be a a weekly visit. ⁓ yeah, exactly. Thanks for joining us. And I will make sure in the show notes to put all the information where people can hear more about this. I feel like I have to hit pause on this conversation. We'll pick it up for a part two. ⁓ but thank you for sharing your insights and your wisdom, hard earned wisdom with us today.

speaker-1: I'll see you next time. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

speaker-0: Thank you for spending time with me on this episode of Life by Design. I appreciate it if you have a moment to pay this forward, share it with someone who you think might benefit from the ideas shared in this episode. If you're feeling so inspired, please also rate and review the podcast wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Again, thank you for listening. Thank you for your time. Take good care, and I'll see you next time.