Barbra Carlisle: Welcome to The Unlikely Executive, the podcast for leaders who never expected to end up in charge, but are determined to do it well. I'm Barbra Carlisle, Executive Coach to founders, CEOs, and purpose-led leaders who want clarity, confidence, and a team that thrives. Hello and welcome today I have the pleasure of talking to Colin McEllin who is the co-owner ⁓ of Clan Contracting and Smart Hire Tools, that correct Colin? Two businesses, not one. Would you like to just introduce yourself to the audience? Just perhaps saying ⁓ who you are and your businesses actually do. Thanks for listening to The Unlikely Executive. If today's conversation challenged you, encouraged you or gave you clarity about how you lead, then make sure you follow the show so that you never miss an episode. I'm Barbara Carlisle, helping leaders who never expected to be in charge show up with courage and fairness and conviction. Colin McEllin: Correct? Yeah. Barbra Carlisle: Each episode, I dive into real conversations with leaders who've navigated pressures, and big decisions so that you can lead with courage, honesty, and impact. Let's get into it. Until next time, lead well, and keep doing the work that matters. Colin McEllin: Yeah, thanks Barbra. Thanks for having me this morning. so my name is Colin McEllin, Operations Director for Clan Contracting, co-owner with two other people, Damian and Jen, and also co-owner of Smart and Plant Hire, that runs itself very, very well without me So there's five of us own Smart and the two other guys. run it perfectly successfully without us being involved other than pushing it we can, But my main job as Operations Director in Clan, ⁓ that's what I've been doing for well. I've been in Clam for 32 years, which is a long, time. I've been a director, co-owner since 2019. So I think, yeah, we're in our seventh year now and it's doing really well. It was always a well-established business anyway. It was established in 1982 by a guy called Alan Anderson. Then I started when I was 21. Just as a young lad on the tools, brushing up, labourer, you know, no qualifications, no really. And ⁓ fell into it really. I never really, ever really wanted to do construction. It ⁓ my bag really at the time. I was brought up on a farm, so was brought up in quite a large farming business. So it was drummed into me from a very, very early age to work hard. up early every single morning, late every night, working on the fields and in all different types of weather. It was drummed into me mainly from my granddad, ⁓ my uncle and stepdad. And it was tough, was tough, but it was a family business and that's where I got my, well my business brain from I suppose. If you don't work hard you don't get anything out of it. So. So then, anyway, unfortunately, working on the farm, I went to agricultural college as well, because my grandad made me go. So I lived there for two years. And I come out of it thinking, yeah, this is what I'm doing. But it worked out. The whole family business went bankrupt ⁓ in 1994, went wrong for the I actually knew someone who worked in Clan, of the managers, and ⁓ said, come and work for us. And I was like, I don't ⁓ know what you do. Don't know anything about construction. And ⁓ just said, you'll pick it up. It'll be fine. Anyway, I did that. And here I am today, owner, of the ⁓ whole Quite a mad story really because I had no qualifications, had no, education wasn't great. Because I always thought I'd just be working for my grandad and my uncle and my stepdad. so I did all my construction education in my early 30s. And I became two years ago as a construction chartered manager. was quite tough, it quite full on that to be fair. yeah Here am today a little bit different than when it was 1994 when I was on the brush and shovel You know, just one the lads So yeah, I've my way up through supervisory roles and ⁓ site management roles contracts and then Ops director Barbra Carlisle: You Colin McEllin: but ⁓ People are interested in that one because you you start off at an early age and basically not knowing what you want to do and a lot people to university and study construction technology or building and surveying in university and then they're off in the ⁓ 20s. wasn't me. didn't what the hell going on just going to work just to earn money back in the day in the ⁓ 90s, you know, it wasn't a great with Jobs and everything else. So I just stuck with it and then I realized I think after about 10 years being in Clan I needed to do something different I'd got married, I'd decided to have a family, mortgage, you know, usual stuff as you grow older, responsibility. And then I realised that I can't just be doing this for the rest of my life, even though it was great, great laugh with all the lads on site. Learned loads off the guys in Clan back in the day, am to be fair. And it just to a point where I just needed to do something different. push myself up to another level. My wife was always there for me to keep pushing me You've got to lose and you know, that whole story. So that's when I went to college night school and did an ONC. Wasn't ⁓ nothing amazing, the ONC, but it just, was bit of a foot on the ladder type thing ⁓ to see how I could cope. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Colin McEllin: doing further education because I rubbish at school. So it was their case of giving it a go, going to night school. And it wasn't easy, but I got through it, And then that was it then. I ⁓ think I the bug for construction management, running and then it just led ⁓ from one project to another. It led to another then it led to me after two or three projects, And as know, you've Clan on LinkedIn and everything else. I think just gradually grown over the years. Over the I would say 20 years, it's just gone to another level. And certainly since we did the management buyout in 2019, it's just gone to another, another level. And we just keep on going and getting bigger projects and more interesting ones like conservation and... Liver buildings, Royal Albert Dock, Blue Coat Chambers, so all the old, oldie-worldie buildings in Liverpool that I mainly specialise in. And it's what I've become passionate about and been quite good at it to be fair. But a lot, obviously alongside people who I work with, mean the likes of our Managing Director. wouldn't be here today without and Jen, our finance director. She joined the business in 2014 and just put a new stamp on it and just pushed it in a different direction, which was great for us because we were a little bit old fashioned And then the team around me as well, the contracts managers, they all know who they are. ⁓ They are an amazing team, site managers. technical people, technical brains we've got in our business is quite phenomenal Yeah, so I mean my wife as well who without my wife I wouldn't she just pushed me constantly. It was always a case, yeah it's always a case of like yeah sometimes you just think you know kind of do this a little bit you know you lack a little bit of confidence and stuff and then when we did the management buyout my wife was like just do it just go for it. I mean it was two months before Barbra Carlisle: Yeah, so pushing is good isn't it? Sometimes you just need to push. Colin McEllin: the pandemic that didn't help. We didn't know that but we again we were strong enough to get through that as many other businesses were Barbra Carlisle: Well, you didn't know that, did you? Colin McEllin: Yeah it's been ⁓ cool. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah, and I know Clan ⁓ ⁓ it does do a lot heritage conservation I find that fascinating because I'm from St. Helens ⁓ I think one of the first sort of posts I saw was you were doing a bottle bank, not even sure what it was in St. Helens right nestled next Tesco, you know. Colin McEllin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, kind of since sure and that's the one. never even knew it there myself until we chopped the trees down and it just emerged out of the ground, this 1880s bottle shop factory which was in ruins And we've just stabilised it all and now it's got a roof on it now and now it's becoming part of the community Barbra Carlisle: Yeah? Colin McEllin: for the better, for the good, you know. So that's just of many. ⁓ Barbra Carlisle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. then ⁓ start as a specialist heritage contractor, did it? Colin McEllin: No, think, yeah, We've always been a specialist company and that's how Clan started with concrete repairs and what cavity wall ties, just pinning buildings back together again So we've always done that and we're still doing that. We do a lot of domestic houses for councils and stuff. Large estates where they need wall ties or underpinning or ⁓ new of brickwork, rebuilds, and stuff, just to keep everything, keep going and fresh. So that is bread and butter to be fair. But then we, like I said, about plus years ago, we just... stepped out of our comfort zone a little bit and started looking at bigger projects and bigger concrete repair projects and schools, universities, churches. So anything, whether it concrete, brickwork or stone, that's failing. We'll get stuck and repair it. People come to us for help basically as a structural mind to put things right it can be very daunting to people when they see buildings that are ⁓ and struggling and virtually ⁓ collapse It's really interesting as ⁓ to watch things go from the very beginning to the very end. ⁓ Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Colin McEllin: one for me, was first site manager's job was Blue Coat ⁓ Chambers in Liverpool 1 which is the oldest building in Liverpool in the city centre and we refurbished that 2007 which took us about two to do that. loads from that, that was ⁓ really interesting. Barbra Carlisle: Mm. Colin McEllin: lot of hard work went into that as well. And it still looks great to this day. think it's still an amazing building. ⁓ the people in there as well, they always back to me and for help, advice. we've got that ⁓ relationship, we've got bond with Blue Coat and we've got that with other clients as well, But we always get... Barbra Carlisle: ⁓ it's a beautiful. ⁓ Colin McEllin: Not always, but a lot of the time we get called back to a look at stuff. Opening drinks, ⁓ just stuff, charity doo's and stuff like that. People like Blue Coats and other places. You don't tend to forget who we are. And it also gets us other contracts as well. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Colin McEllin: ⁓ So there's always something going on. Barbra Carlisle: because in terms of like the construction sector, it's the biggest pollutant of plastics and stuff like that. ⁓ from I'm hearing from about Clan, it's making sure that the buildings are ⁓ fit for which ⁓ enhances that you're maintaining the heritage for future generations. Colin McEllin: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so this sustainability side of things for us with heritage buildings, We've always got to reclaim as much as we can anyway bricks. we always reclaim and if we can't reclaim, we go to reclamation yards and pull out old ⁓ So sustainability for that, use old to put back into an old building. ⁓ we can't use the original is really really good and we use a lot of lime mortars as well ⁓ use stone, limestone material, ⁓ lime mortars ⁓ so again real it's not like cement and stuff that made you know out of a factory it's proper. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Colin McEllin: proper old materials, traditional stuff, how they used to do it back in the day. So we try and do that as much as we can. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. It takes energy and effort, doesn't it? But I want to move on a little bit about, you mentioned the management buyout a couple of times. And interested to know, well, what led to that and ⁓ did you have to find within yourself apart from your wife going, I just go and do it, know, go, Colin go. ⁓ What through your mind as you were making that decision as to should I, shouldn't I? Colin McEllin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I ⁓ think Yeah, it was a big decision. As you know, Clan is quite a large business. We employ 70 plus people. there's a lot going on. It was a big step, big responsibility to ⁓ that decision to become a owner director. But just felt right at the time because me and Damian and Jen were basically running the business anyway. because we were younger, we had fresher ideas, we were leading the front line and everything else. the previous owners were getting to a retirement age anyway. They'd all had enough, they'd all done an amazing job before us, they'd put it in a position. The way it was in 2019, was a good. buy if So it got to a point where Clan was very well known, very well respected, reputation already through the at that point anyway. ⁓ So it was a no really for three of us and it was a big decision and obviously we've had our ups and downs before, during and after the MBO. So it was a bit tricky. But between three of us I think we just... We just sat around the boardroom table and we all just looked at each other and we thought, if we don't do this, we're going to regret it. We might regret it anyway with doing it, but if we don't do it, the regret could be bigger. And if it does go wrong it's just, we just find it an absolute nightmare. At we can say to ourselves and our families, well, you know what, at least we've, we've had a go, at least we've done it. ⁓ Barbra Carlisle: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Colin McEllin: And I think the business was already set up anyway. We already had so many clients. So we weren't starting something new. The gamble ⁓ as as a lot of people would take. But yeah, we've changed it a lot. The business is ⁓ probably nowhere the same as it was when it was run by the other directors. But we had that good start with Clan. Barbra Carlisle: Mmm. Yeah. Colin McEllin: And yeah, I'm to, I'm, keeps on pushing on and on and on and on and yeah, good. Barbra Carlisle: So you mentioned the highs and the lows and I have to ask, you what have been the lows and how have you navigated that? Colin McEllin: Yeah, I think the pandemic was a low only because we just know what was going to happen and we had to put people on furlough. that turned itself around. I think for first two months, we just didn't know what the hell was going to happen. And like any business, we've had ups downs with staff and, ⁓ we've got to let people go then we bring people in and, we have our ups and downs with people like that. I think they can be a struggle. But I would say overall, our ⁓ what we've got right now are amazing. Barbra Carlisle: Mmm. Colin McEllin: It is literally a roller coaster one minute. You're like, ⁓ this is just an absolute nightmare And then the next day it's like, you know what? This is this is really good. You know what within with the stuff we do in Clan every day is different. Anyway, you never know what's gonna happen. You never know what what building is going to be thrown out here. So it is an interesting one. And even though I've been doing this job since 1994, I'm still learning every single day and that's what keeps me going, I think. Barbra Carlisle: The F. Colin McEllin: you think you know it all and you think, and then the next thing you've heard something and seen something and you're like, wow, I didn't even know that existed. So that's the interesting side of it. wouldn't be lying if as a business owner, you ⁓ do have the odd night, certainly in the early days when you're basically putting it all on the block and you're It's like one big gamble, know? It's like putting all your red on number, you know, and you're thinking, ⁓ God, is this the right thing to do? So yeah, I've had a few sleepless nights, but yeah. ⁓ Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Hahaha Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a gamble, but it was one that you felt that it wasn't too big a gamble for you and your family because you had the trust of and Jen and also the existing business had been pretty solid, even though it's now changed quite a lot. And you said, the lows are always going to be those staffing issues because ⁓ you... Colin McEllin: Mm. Yes, it's a lesbian. Yeah. No. No. Barbra Carlisle: can't really predict people and people will outshine your expectations on some occasions and totally fail you on others. Colin McEllin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. absolutely. We've got some ⁓ guys who've been us for many, many, many years. were just, their knowledge is incredible. And then we've got newer guys coming in who bring new ideas. So we just had a graduate commercial manager join us. come in with, really modern up-to-date ideas. because I'm 54 this year and still little old fashioned. So when you've newer, ⁓ younger people coming yeah it's really good. Really ⁓ interesting to see their look on stuff is after they've only been here for six months. ⁓ I'm learning a from that to be fair, it's really good. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Yeah, it's that different perspective, but sometimes leaders aren't open to the different perspective. You know, and they say, well, it's not how we've done it round here. You know, that's not how it's done. Colin McEllin: No, yeah, yeah, think Me ⁓ and Damon Jen spoke about this briefly ⁓ and we just said, you know what, is what we need. ⁓ You could just feel and it took me Barbra Carlisle: Mm. Colin McEllin: me back to when I was 21, when I first came. I was only on the site and doing general, you know, labouring jobs, but I was eager, I worked hard, ⁓ I some and so it took me back a little bit. know, things have got to keep on going, younger generations have got to keep coming in, pushing us, some respects, that's how it works and that's how it worked with me over the years and now it's happening again. I want to happily knowing that Clan is in good hands with a younger generation because I want Clan to keep on going going going going ⁓ for years and years and when I'm an old man and can still look at it and go, you know what, look at it. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Colin McEllin: still going. It's great that you know what I mean that's what I want to that's my vision when I'm older Barbra Carlisle: Do you think that you could walk away now and see it thriving or is the stuff you still to achieve yourself within Clan? Colin McEllin: Yeah, I think there is stuff that I still want to achieve over the next six or seven years, I would like to maybe see maybe just under. under 10 years, And then get it to place, position of, you where it's rock solid and then bye. I'm off. ⁓ One take day, that's one. Yeah. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. come in for a cup of tea and a pancake on Clan cake day or whatever. Yeah. ⁓ Colin McEllin: no. Barbra Carlisle: want to ask you about your own leadership style. would you describe yourself as a leader? ⁓ Colin McEllin: Yeah, I think I've always been quite calm and that has put me in good stead with what I've Because I've dealt with lot of managers over the years who literally just scream and shout and ball and you a hard time. Directors in Clan as well. even though they all did an amazing job and they could be a little bit full-on so I always try to keep keep a steady head and keep level and Treat people speak to people how I would like to be spoken to and just respect everyone around you You know you do have your challenges you do have your your meetings with the clients or the main contractors where you're in a bit of trouble with behind program or problems on site. No, I, I, I face all them meetings. I know I'll do all them myself. most of them anyway. they're tier one contractors. I deal with that. and you know, you do get grief and you do get put down a little bit. but I've always tried to keep calm. And I think ⁓ that's probably as leader, would say that's probably one of my Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Colin McEllin: better sides to me. Just think about it and just, just take a, take a breather a minute, you know, rather than waving, waving your hands around and kicking off. It doesn't, doesn't work. So I think, yeah, I would say I'm, I'd like, I'd like to think I was a nice boss People tell me I am. Whether they just saying it who knows? Yeah. Yeah. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, somebody tell you the truth Colin, at some point I'm sure, And What part of your leadership ⁓ do you think needs work? Colin McEllin: I would say I need to. ⁓ take a minute sometimes and get all me ducks in a row. It feels like sometimes I'm literally all over the place and I can't get anything on a level Everything just seems to be all over the place. mean, just look at my desk. If you came into our office and you looked at my desk, you'd go, oh yeah, I know what he's on about. just, yeah, organized chaos. I think. Barbra Carlisle: Chaos! Colin McEllin: Moving forward as ⁓ leader, think I need to sort me stuff out. I think I'm to do too much ducking in and out of stuff and maybe a little bit too much responsibility ⁓ sometimes. not taking time for myself as well. I just tend to get all flustered and get buried with drawings and paperwork and then go home then I'm just like, oh God, I haven't even done what I was supposed to have done today because I've just been too busy looking at nothing. Yeah, it's sort of like a bit of a, brain just sort of goes slow, You're like, oh, come on. I think I just need to, like I said before, the good old saying of getting all your ducks in a row. And once you've done that, you can work from left to right or right to left. I'm... Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Mm. Colin McEllin: put everything in order. At the minute, I've got nothing in order. And I think that's due to us being very busy as well. But yeah, it's not helping me at the minute. But yeah, I would say that's one of my downsides is not putting myself first and organizing myself and yeah, tidying my desk. Yeah. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Yeah, you're not alone. mean, and this is what I see a lot is that people who love the job, great leaders, like you've just described, the calm leader, but actually you love doing what you've always done, which is, getting down into the detail. And that's what leads to you then not having the time for either yourself or for the strategic stuff. So ⁓ it's like having the list, but it's not really a to-do list. It's like, I can do it so I will, Colin McEllin: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was only talking to Aaron, ⁓ last week, and he was me something very similar. I struggle with coming out of doing what I did many, years ago, been a site manager and a contracts manager. Now I'm a director, an owner of the business. I struggle. being a director, I still feel like I need to go to site, get my trowel out, do a bit of this. I've actually done that. I feel like I need to do something on site. And I really struggled getting out because I've done it for so long. ⁓ I've only been a director for seven years, but I was a hands-on, know, concrete pair in my trial, pointing, brickwork. Barbra Carlisle: Hmm. Mm. Colin McEllin: I really struggle getting out of, even today, getting away from that and put myself in my chair behind my desk and being a director and owner of the business. Aaron said to that's really interesting that you've said that. He said, you you need to deal who you are now, not who you So I struggle, I struggle. Barbra Carlisle: Yeah. Colin McEllin: like moving away from that dirty hand roll to be fair. I really do, yeah. Barbra Carlisle: Hmm. Yeah. And the two shouldn't be totally mutually exclusive, should they? But it's that like, should the balance be? And, what's the driver for you? ⁓ and even saying sitting behind your desk, I could tell it wasn't like your favorite thing, So ⁓ I'm going to ask you, have you had any ⁓ leadership training or coach or a mentor at all that have helped you? Colin McEllin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ You know what, I've not. I started my ILM before the pandemic and I got virtually to the very, very end and then the pandemic hit and then everyone just disappeared. All the tutors, So I never actually finished that, but I was almost done. I learned quite a lot when I did my MCIOB. found that quite interesting when I was actually pulling things, evidence together and putting it in my assignment. But no, the answer to your question is no, Barbra Carlisle: I met you, it was a networking event for in the from memory. ⁓ And ⁓ you mentioned that just been the doing an interview. And I asked you why. And were, if you don't mind me saying, you were sheepish when you said, well, it was just me. And I was like, why you? And you said, well, I actually, you know, I'm a co-owner. ⁓ so I am quite curious, you you didn't... Colin McEllin: Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Barbra Carlisle: You weren't forthright necessarily with that statement that you're the owner of two businesses. also ⁓ you introduce yourself, you say you're the ops director and then the co-owner. Colin McEllin: Yeah. Barbra Carlisle: you know, and I'm just curious, Can I, ⁓ what, am I calling myself? Colin McEllin: Yeah. Yeah, so sometimes it feels like I don't deserve it. That's yeah. Because I came from working on a farm, been a ⁓ bit of brickie a bit of brushing up, a bit of, like I said earlier, and I I've worked my way up and I know I've done things throughout my career, but it still feels like I don't deserve this. Damian. Barbra Carlisle: Okay. Colin McEllin: University, top end, educated guy, very clever Damian. Like I said, you can learn off Damian all day, every day. Same with Jen, very clever, so when you become a co-owner with these two individuals, you a bit, even though I'm chartered and I've got everything else, but. was on site for so long, just like all our lads are now. Which great, without people like me doing that and the lads doing that now, we're nothing, not a business. Our lads keep us going and that's what I did. But when it comes to co-owner, director of very successful businesses, I really struggle to... Barbra Carlisle: Mmm. Colin McEllin: is it ⁓ should it have been me? I don't think it should have been but people ⁓ tell me otherwise people I mean Jen Jen tells me off quite a lot for guy I say I'm just a builder and Jen will say no, you're not you ⁓ you're a bit different I was brought up a business You know me nan and grandad owned their own business me uncle owned his own business me stepdad Still owns his own business Barbra Carlisle: Well, it should have been, shouldn't it? know, you'd be...yeah. Colin McEllin: I was surrounded by business people, it's all I ever knew. even it feels yeah, I don't deserve ⁓ It's abit weird, yeah, it's true. ⁓ Barbra Carlisle: Yeah, interesting. And for sharing that. What advice would you have for somebody who's starting off in the construction sector at the moment? Colin McEllin: Yeah, so my advice would be obviously work as hard as you can and that's what was drummed into me from mainly my grandad. If you don't work, you don't get anything out of it. You've got to in to get nice things out of it. So ⁓ my would be just to work as as you can and do as much training as you can and training slash education because the more... ⁓ more you do, the more education you get within the construction industry. You'll just fly. was doing a talk in a school It's like a career day. We do it year. We've done it for 10 years in a high school in Liverpool. I was only then, you've got to put as much as you can into it because if you don't, you won't end up doing anything in life. But if you do as much training as you can and education and just keep on going, the good thing about construction is there's so many different avenues coming off it. You're not just working on a factory making cardboard boxes. In construction, there's so many different architecture, engineering, electrics, plumbing, painting, decorating, joinery quantity surveying. The is endless. You just keep on going and going and going and going. Barbra Carlisle: Mm. Colin McEllin: machine drivers, crane operators. It's just an endless web of things shooting out of it. So my advice would be for someone new going into construction is find out what you want to do. Start a job, move around the business, try different things, whether it be bricklaying or plastering or whatever, and get a love for it. And then as soon as you've got that, you can just... do anything you want to do. You can just fly in any direction you want to do, whether you want to be a brick layer or you want to be an architect. I know they're slightly different, you can just run with it and go crazy. Like I did. Barbra Carlisle: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, like you did. Well Colin, thank you ever so much for your time today. And if people want to get in touch with you, you're on LinkedIn Colin McEllin Clan are active on social media, aren't they? Thank you very much your time today. Colin McEllin: Yeah. Yeah. We you very much. Yeah. Thank you, Barbra.