speaker-0: Welcome to Lead Her Higher, a podcast sharing the stories of women transforming education through leadership. I'm your host, Emily McLean. Today, I'm joined by Sarah Fleming, the head of prep at Upper Canada College in Canada. Sarah's journey spans international schools and Canadian independent education and at the heart of her work is a deep commitment to people, how we lead them, grow them and create cultures where they can truly thrive. You're going to love her insights on coaching, emotional regulation and the responsibility and opportunity that we have to shape how young people understand leadership. So let's get into it. Let's start with her.

speaker-1: story.

speaker-0: So today I'm looking forward to my conversation with someone who is not only an exceptional leader, but someone who I deeply respect as a dear, dear friend, Sarah Fleming. Sarah currently serves as a head of prep school at UCC, Upper Canada College here in Toronto, Canada. Her journey has taken her across continents through diverse school contexts and into some of the most dynamic leadership spaces in education today. Sarah, welcome to the Lead Her Higher podcast.

speaker-1: Thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here.

speaker-0: Sarah, we are both good friends professionally and personally, and we get to have these types of conversations all the time. But I'm really excited for our listeners to learn a little bit more about you as a leader as we have our conversation today. So let's jump right into it. Let's go right back to the beginning. Can you share a little bit about your leadership journey to date?

speaker-1: Yeah, it's such a big question, Like summarizing your whole journey in a couple of sentences. But I think the first thing that comes to mind is I was born into a family with a really incredibly strong ⁓ leader who was my mom. From the beginning, I had this model of what strong female leadership looked like and sounded like in my mom. And I remember In the household that I was in growing up, the traditional roles were reversed. And in the 80s, this was less common. It's much more common now, but it was less common. My mom was often late at work, and my dad was the one cooking dinner and doing chores. I just, I feel like from the very beginning, I knew that women could do anything and could lead professionally and still have really rich family lives. And then I moved. into leadership in the educational space with that kind of behind me. But when I think about that first phase of leadership, when I was moving into kind of being a team leader in schools and being an instructional coach, I think that back then I really believed that the way you had influence was by having a leadership role. Like I was really, I really didn't quite yet understand. all the ways that you could have influence, formally and informally. And I was really kind of focused on ⁓ the more formal position, the more formal positional leadership opportunities. And I think as I moved through my career, that sort of second phase when I moved to Bangkok and worked at the International School of Bangkok, I learned that leadership was about so much more than a position. really was, it's about when I was learning to build capacity in others. When I, when I was when I started learning more about coaching, when I understood that leadership was not just about position, but was about building self-directedness and others and navigating the different ways that you can have influence organizationally or even in individual relationships. And then I kind of moved into my sort third phase of leadership when I moved. So I was in overseas schools or international schools for 15 years and was so fortunate to have a variety of different roles so I could see kind of the scope of my leadership change over time. But my most recent phase, the third phase I guess I would say so far, my learning in this last phase as I've become a head or some people call it a principal, but I'm the head this JK to seven school, part of the school that I run right now, is understanding that leadership is really about leading systems, right? And the human piece of the system and the complexity and also really learning in this phase about bringing my whole self to work. I think for a long time I felt like you had to keep so much of yourself, particularly as women maybe we feel this, I'm not sure, out of work. But now I think I'm learning more about how it is okay to bring ⁓ much of yourself to work. understanding how grief has impacted my leadership, how personal illness has impacted my leadership, how becoming a mother has impacted my leadership. So I think I'm looking forward to what I'm going to learn in the fourth phase, but I think those are sort of my phases so far.

speaker-0: Well, I love that you have those different phrases and you've learned so much through each of them from your mom and the importance of different roles and that you don't need necessarily a role to influence than coming into this idea of system leadership. And throughout all of that, there's been moments that have clearly stretched you, not just personally, but professionally as well. And you've moved across countries and cultures and systems, and that really requires courage, clarity, and a deep sense of purpose. And as you shared, your most significant move was from Thailand to Canada in your current headship. How did you know that this was the right role for you at that time?

speaker-1: It was such a difficult decision to leave international schools to come back to Canada where I'm from. I really believed I was going to be overseas for my entire career. Yeah, it was a little bit unexpected, I think, for other people and also for myself when I made the decision. I had an incredible, incredible run overseas. at ISB, I had three different positions as a teacher, as an instructional coach, and then as a vice principal. But then I actually applied to be the principal at ISB and I was unsuccessful. And gosh, not getting a job internally is so humbling, but it's also turned out to be a really wonderful thing, right? Like, you know, at the time it was crushing, of course, but it just helped me see that my time there was going to come to a close soon. And so I was really open to see what else might be out there. And when I was contacted regarding this opportunity in Toronto and I began the recruitment process, I realized that there was so much alignment in this school, what they were looking for and in what I was looking for next. And so I think it was unexpected, the timing, but it's about being open and it's about being aware. that when the opportunities come, it's not always the timeline that we had in our minds, right? Like it's not always the perfect timing that we imagined or what was in our five-year plan. So I really think for me, I knew it was right. I knew it in my bones that it was right. felt right. There was alignment in terms of the type of work that was needing to happen here and what I could offer. And my time at ISB was coming to a natural close. think that was sort of all of those factors helped me to make that decision, which was still a really hard decision.

speaker-0: It sounds like that clarity really came through for you and the alignment with that opportunity and purpose, regardless of timeline, was really clear. And we think about what we're willing to stand for and what we're no longer willing to compromise on. And they also shape the kind of leader we choose to be. What kind of values really guide your leadership and are there any pivotal moments that really shaped how you lead or how you see your role now?

speaker-1: The interesting thing is I don't think I could have answered this question 10 or 15 years ago. You know, I really believe now, and you'll recognize this quote from Brene Brown of, like, who we are is how we lead, right? I love this quote, and I think it encapsulates me and especially kind of the internal work that I've done in the last decade or so to really understand myself, to know myself, and to like myself. And I think in that process, I've been really able to become more clear on my values. And I would say currently, and maybe they will change, but the three kind of guiding values that I have right now are gratitude, approaching situations with grace, and courage. So those are the three kind of values that guide my decision-making and especially guide me when things are tough or I'm stuck. It's interesting. When I think about the pivotal moments in my career, a lot of them actually have been in my personal life. for sure, know, professional changes and there's been times when people have said something that stopped me in my track. It's really, you know, it's been something that I've held on to or an important lesson learned, but really they've been personal and they've really shaped who I am as a leader. I'm comfortable sharing a little bit about them, but you know, I had a... health crisis, I'm a cancer survivor and we're coming up on eight years now, so it's been quite some time. I mean, it truly fundamentally changed how I lead. I see people in pain so much differently now. I see that everyone is just doing the best with what they have and people are walking in as much light as they have. I think having that personal situation happen, ⁓ It's also completely changed the relationship I have with patients and with empathy. And that has deeply impacted who I am as a leader and how I show up for students, families, and colleagues. So I think that's been really, really pivotal. And then the other one, gosh, it's so cliche, right? But in the last couple years, I've become a mom. And I don't think women talk about this enough, but becoming a mom has made me a better leader. And not just because, you know, Like we work with kids and now I have a kid. I think I, you it's not so much about that now I feel like I understand kids better, although you do learn a lot from watching your own kid learn. But actually it's been more about how it's put things into perspective for me as a leader and how it's helped me to be more present in both of my roles. I think when I am at home with my daughter, I am so present. And then that has taught me to be even more present in my role at work. and really wanting to be the best version of myself in both of those identities that I have as a mom and as a leader. So yeah, I think both of those have really, really, really impacted me. And then of course, there's all the moments of not getting the promotion or having that professional development that really impacts you. But yeah, think that when I really think of the most transformational, they've been personal.

speaker-0: What you're really highlighting is that the personal really can't be separated from the professional either. And I love the quote that you shared that who we are is how we lead. Knowing you, your three values are truly who you are and how you lead. And it's so special to be able to watch you in action, both professionally and personally, really lead with those values at your core. And in any school, our students are always watching us. and seeing how we lead. And I know your students watch you in how respect is exercised and how relationships are built and who gets to lead. And I know that that's really important now more than ever as you lead in a boys school. And I know when I led in a boys school, one of the things I was really mindful of is that the boys got to see women in a variety of different leadership roles. thinking about yourself leading a boys school, how have you seen your role in shaping the experience of boys and young men? in particular in how they see women in leadership.

speaker-1: Yeah, I feel so proud to be a female head at a boys school. think I feel very proud. I also feel a lot of responsibility to make sure that we're in a crisis of masculinity, And the responsibility that we have to raise boys who are respectful, who are respectful partners, respectful leaders, respectful. respectful friends and ⁓ that they're emotionally aware and all of those pieces we feel at our school and myself in particular, I feel a strong responsibility to make sure that we are demonstrating all the different models of what it means to be a man at our school, of course, like that's really important. They need to see all of the different multitudes that masculinity can hold, but also what it means to be female, right? And I think that's so important too. I feel really proud when I get to end up in front of the boys and talk to them and share my story and show a picture of my family because it does look different than some families, right? I'm an only parent and so I'm really proud that I get to show a picture of my family, of me and my daughter and then my soon to be second daughter will be in the picture soon. You know, so that they can see that families look different and that women. can lead in all sorts of different ways. It's just in general, the conversations I have with the boys in the hallway. And when I get to speak to them at assembly and when we think about the stories that we want to share with the boys and what leadership looks like, I want them to have models of leadership that, you know, of strong women. But I also want them to understand that leadership is not only positional, right? So what does that look like? How can we make sure that we're ⁓ really being present with the boys, that we're seeing them, that they feel sense of belonging in school. All of that is so important that we're nurturing that emotional literacy. You I think that's a huge part of what I see my role in doing and when I interact with the boys in the hallway. yeah, feel really proud. I'm only the second female head at UCC and ⁓ it feels really exciting. And I think also just shows there's like an understanding at boys schools that deserve to see all of these different incredible role models in their lives.

speaker-0: And how lucky are those boys to have you as such an incredible role model for them? And you are also right that that kind of visibility carries real responsibility as well. And often there's pressure that goes along with that too. know, high expectations don't just shape students, but they shape leaders as well. And high expectation environments can sharpen us, but they can also test us. They demand consistency, emotional intelligence, as you've talked about, as well as stamina. especially when the pace is sometimes relentless and stakes are very high. So what has leadership in high expectation context really taught you about your own resilience and how do you help others build theirs?

speaker-1: Yeah, this is such a good question. I mean, these are very demanding jobs that we have, right? The stamina, gosh, the stamina for these jobs. So I guess in terms of strategies that I have learned, that I absolutely need is I think it is essential that you have a coach or a thinking partner, right? I think that's been really important for me to have that person that will help you be that critical friend, that critical partner. who will help you, will ask that question that's gonna unlock whatever resource you need in that moment. But the other thing that I think that leading in a high expectation context has taught me is the importance of being emotionally regulated. I would not have identified this as an important leadership skillset earlier in my career, nor do I think I was as emotionally regulated as I am now. I guess what I would say is there's always someone who's gonna be mad at us, right? In these high expectation contexts, mad at us or disappointed. But it is our role, no matter what, to be a steady, sturdy presence. And we can't do that unless we are ourselves emotionally regulated. And that has been something I've learned from going through my own difficult situations in my personal life, right? But also at work, right? And seeing how when I'm regulated, the team is regulated, which means the system is more regulated, right? There's this interplay with all of that, I think. And I'm not saying that... I don't have strong emotions or the need to process complex situations or that I don't maybe have feelings on the inside. But I've learned to kind of navigate moving between the balcony and the dance floor, right? That moving from the emotional to the cognitive much more effectively than I used to. It's a muscle that I've really learned the importance of to help me be a steady presence. And to be honest, it's the same exact thing that we need to do as parents, right? So that's... So now I'm getting to practice that muscle, exercise that muscle at school and I'm also exercising it at home. So it's probably my strongest muscle right now. And I think how we build that in others is really through coaching, right? Like I think helping people understand the importance of this and not being afraid. think sometimes when we talk about emotional regulation, it's just we're implying that women are. you know, people are not allowed to be emotional, that they're not allowed to break down, that they're not allowed to cry. Of course, right? Of course we are. And of course that's going to happen on occasion. But I think having that safe place that you can go to so that you're not doing that in the time when it's, it's, that would be more difficult for you to do. I think, you know, there are times when, of course, I've been vulnerable in front of my faculty and, and emotion has come out, of course. And so it's being able to be steady and sturdy when needed for others. and then supporting your team as best as possible to be the same.

speaker-0: I really appreciate you highlighting emotional regulation. I do think it is an underrated leadership skill and something that every leader really needs to develop for the sake of their whole community. And you also mentioned coaching. And I think it's also been a real hallmark of your own leadership journey and your commitment to developing other people. know cognitive coaching has been a huge part of your leadership development. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what that has taught you about yourself as a leader and how you support others that you coach.

speaker-1: Yeah, oh my gosh, I am so grateful that coaching came into my life when it did. I really truly believe that everyone deserves a coach, everybody. And I love that article. I think it's quite old now, maybe 2011, that article from Atul Gawande that was in The New Yorker where he spoke about how even surgeons, like surgeons at the highest level, get better at their craft by having a coach, right? Everybody deserves to have that person that's going to support them in sharpening and refining their skills. deeply believe in being really coached like in my interactions whenever I can, but also having a coach myself. By watching coaches that are really effective, I've learned so much about what true coaching really is. I think a lot of people think they're coaching, but actually they're just giving advice. And so I think for me, what really has resonated for me with leadership and coaching is that the impact of coaching when it's really about building self-directedness in others, when it's really about supporting individuals to find the resources that they already have within themselves. So when I'm coaching someone, I'm always thinking about what question might I ask that will help them illuminate something that they haven't thought of or a resource that's just more dormant right now that they need to kind of unlock within themselves. Often people come to a leader because they want advice. And in those times, I mean, we're acting as a consultant and that's a really important support role too that we play. But I think when you're truly coaching somebody, you're, especially cognitive coaching, I guess I would say, is you're really coaching the individual and you're supporting them to be more efficacious, right? And I think, gosh, if I could do that all day, every day, I mean, I think it is the best job. And then along with cognitive coaching, there's also instructional coaching with gosh, which is, I think one of the most powerful forms of internal professional development that exists, and it's backed up in the research, right? That we know that when we go to professional development, you know, we learn things and we have a few strategies we might bring back to the classroom. But when you are working with a coach who's helping illuminate practices and ideas that will help you in the moment and then is there alongside you to help you implement them, that truly changes learning, right? in student-centered schools, like what more could we ever want than to spend our money on resources that are helping our teachers grow and become more effective professionals. yeah, think from whether it's cognitive coaching or whether it's instructional coaching or whatever type of coaching it is, I think it is definitely at the heart of what I really believe impact systems and relationships. But I also like it's deeply impacted who I am in my personal life too.

speaker-0: I couldn't agree more with you that coaching has such an impact on the individual and the entire learning community. And coaching really requires you to be deeply self-aware and that self-awareness really becomes even more important in spaces where leadership norms have historically been defined by men. For many women, leadership means navigating systems that weren't originally designed for them. And that requires a bit of adaption and also discernment about when to adjust and when to stay firmly rooted in who you are. So I'm really curious, given all of the spaces that you've led in, have you ever felt the need to adapt your leadership style in a male-dominated space? And what did you take away from that experience, if so?

speaker-1: Yes, I have. I, gosh, so early in my career, definitely yes, I used to think that I needed to inflate my age or ask questions about sports. And now I look back at that person and I think like, ⁓ gosh, what was she doing, right? And of course, I think you are so right. We all have to be really flexible and we all have to adapt and we all have to stretch our styles. And we're constantly doing that, right? Like we're always thinking about what does this room need? and how might we have the most influence? And we're changing constantly. We're adapting constantly. ⁓ you know, good leaders are doing that all the time for every individual and team that they're on. But you can't do that if you're compromising who you are, right? Or what you believe. I think, so I think there is absolutely like this, the discernment is a huge part of that. But I think what I carry consistently whenever I am being flexible or know, adjusting my style to the group that's in front of me. I'm still being true to who I am and what I believe. I don't think, you know, don't have to compromise your values or how you express yourself. So I think earlier in my career, I was less comfortable with who I was. Maybe I didn't even quite know who I was yet. And I certainly didn't like myself in the same way. And so now that I like myself and I'm comfortable with who I am and what I believe. and what I can offer, I think it feels much more comfortable to be flexible as needed. And I don't think about it as, you know, ⁓ I need to do this because this is a male-dominated space, or I need to do this because it's less male-dominated. I think about it just in general by what does this group need. I will say, and I think it's important to say because I've worked, I've been so fortunate in my career to work with so many men who are true partners. who are not threatened by a strong woman, who have been true advocates for me and for women and for mothers. So I think that's been really, really great that I haven't had to, except for kind of early in my career, I haven't really felt the need to have to adjust too much. I mean, think there's been an evolution, of course, at the beginning. Like I said, I think I did that more.

speaker-0: And despite progress, there is also some outdated narratives around women and leadership that still persist, particularly in education and perhaps international education as well, where leadership is both relational and highly visible. I'm curious what misconceptions might still exist about women leaders and how do women really use their unique strengths to counter those?

speaker-1: Yeah, this is a hard question, but I guess I started to answer it in the last one. And I don't know if this still exists, but I think one thing that I felt that I came up against was age, actually. So I felt like that I had to overcompensate in some way for my age. I became a vice principal quite young and a instructional coach, obviously even younger than that. And I don't know if men think about this. Maybe they do, but. For me, people would often talk about how I didn't have the wisdom yet. And I thought, wisdom, interesting. Like, does wisdom only come from years lived or is there other ways that we can develop our wisdoms? I'd like to believe that it's not just about how many years you've done something that makes you good at the job. Like, I recognize there are certainly, certainly there are some things that come with time. Of course there are, But there's also a lot that comes with skills and mentorship and the opportunities that you're given. So my hope is that we are not holding women back because they don't have enough wisdom, right, based on their age. I don't believe that that is happening for men. Now, maybe there are examples that I'm unaware of. I think there's a lot of women that I know that still would be hesitant to apply for roles when they're young because They might say, ⁓ you know, I don't have enough experience or I don't have enough wisdom. And I've even been told that when I haven't gotten a job, I've been told, you know, we just, we had a question about experience and, and wisdom. So I'd like to see, I'd like to see this generation of leaders promoting women without worrying about age and thinking about the kind of what's the, what are the skillsets we're looking for? What are the values that this person bring? What gifts does this person bring, right? Rather than looking at a number on a page.

speaker-0: I, similarly to you, have stepped into different leadership roles at younger ages, and I feel very fortunate that people have taken a chance on me despite my age and despite maybe not having 20 years in the business on the resume. I want to shift into culture a little bit because it shows up in how we treat ourselves, but also one another, especially when leadership can feel so heavy. And as leaders, we really manage that weight with how we rest and reset and model well-being and how we are modeling those things really sends a powerful message to our community. Leadership is demanding. And so how do you maintain that balance? How do you recharge? And how do you really model that well-being for your community?

speaker-1: Yeah, well, I'm about to have another baby. And in Canada, we're very, fortunate because we have really wonderful, supportive parental leave. And so I'm going to take a full 12 months off after I have this baby. And I think, you know, that is not something that every woman has the privilege to be able to do. I recognize it's a huge privilege that I have to be able to do it. But I think that's really big. I did not take my full 12 months after my last child. I came back earlier and there was lots of different reasons for that. I actually missed my job and maybe I'll miss my job this time too, but I really, I think I want to honor this important identity that I have and as a mom and bringing my second child into the world. And I also know that the school is going to be really okay without me for a whole 12 months, right? We've been a team together here. I've been here for four years. We have just incredible people that are gonna continue moving the school forward. And I feel really proud to leave it in their hands. And ⁓ I feel such trust in the team that I'm leaving it with. So I think that's one way that I'm modeling kind of balance and wellbeing. Certainly we work hard, right? We work hard, we're here late, we have evenings, but I think... You know, everybody also knows that I have a kid and that I have a family and sometimes my kid is here at school, not during the day, but at an evening event. Sometimes I'm running home to do something when needed. I actually live on campus. I only live three minutes away from where I work. So the balance I'm able to have, like that is just a structure that is allowing me to have a better balance. Personally, I, my friendships are really important to me, quality conversation and laughter and. and fun and hiking and being outdoors is really important to me. And I talk a lot about that with the boys and the faculty. People know my passions. People know that I'm a big reader and that I'm in a book club. And so I think sharing our personal passions. I mean, do I have as much time for those anymore? No, but I think when I'm doing them, I'm really present and ⁓ all of that helps me have the space to handle the hard things that come up at work. I think just being really open and authentic about all of the parts of who we are and being willing to share that and also to share the complexity of being a working single mom, right? Like it is not, there's a lot going on and sometimes it means that you are, if your kid is sick and you couldn't get a babysitter, sometimes it means that you're having to take part of a day off and that, you know, and my team is incredibly understanding when that happens and ⁓ it's not ideal for sure, but. I think when we build structures that support women and support ⁓ particular, what different families can look like, think ultimately it means that everybody can be more engaged and more impactful.

speaker-0: You are so open with your community about who you are. And I think that goes back to the quote you shared with us right at the beginning of who you are is how you lead. And I'm so excited for you to be a mom to girl number two very, very soon.

speaker-1: Yeah, me too.

speaker-0: And so I want to turn it over to you for one of my favorite parts of the podcast where we ask each guest to really highlight a woman who's helped to lead her hire on her journey. might be a mentor or a leader or colleague, someone who's made a really impactful imprint on your leadership journey. So Sarah, who's someone who's been that to you?

speaker-1: I knew you were going to ask this question because I've heard your podcast before and I was like, I'm going to tell Emily I can't choose because there's been too many. I've been so unbelievably blessed. But then I thought about, well, then I'm missing an opportunity to shout out to somebody incredible. So I am going to shout out to my previous ⁓ boss and principal that I worked with for many, years at ISB in Bangkok, and that's Kelly Armitage. I'll make sure she listens to this ⁓ because I think we don't often get to hear people that have impacted us and like what they really mean to us. I mean, she promoted me into both the instructional coaching role and the vice principal role when I didn't have the experience on the resume, right? She didn't make me feel like I had to be ready for leadership. She saw something in me. She believed in me. And she taught me to be relentlessly focused on student learning. I am deeply indebted to her for that lesson. She really, it comes from the work of Jim Collins in Good to Great and this idea of the hedgehog and what organizations need in order to be great, they need to do one thing exceptionally well and the image for that is the hedgehog. And our hedgehog at ISB was improving student learning and she was willing to say no to hard things in order to focus on learning. She also taught me about distributed leadership and she taught me to feel valued for the expertise and wisdom that I brought to the table even when I had less years of experience. And she empowered me to take on challenges with my leadership. So I'm just so grateful that she built capacity in me, right? And so much of my career is thanks to her. And I hope that I will be able to do the same thing for somebody else because she's a pretty incredible leader and person and I'm very, very grateful.

speaker-0: I got to meet Kelly through adaptive schools at UCC in the past year. She is truly an exceptional leader. So I'm so glad you got to name her today. And I should also say that you are that person for many people. I know that I've heard from other people at your school as well as in your journey. So know that you are being that person for us.

speaker-1: others as well. That's so nice. It's hard. You don't feel that, right? You don't feel that in the moment. We don't feel it yet. So it's nice that you're... So thank you for asking that question because I think it's going to mean a lot to a lot of people.

speaker-0: So let's wrap up with a few quick questions to get to know you in a few different ways. So what's the best compliment you've ever received as a leader?

speaker-1: Oh my gosh. It's usually when the kids say something really funny, you know, like I got a card from a boy the other day who said, Ms. Fleming, thank you for standing up in front of the prep school and for sharing your wisdom. So it's just so great when the kids see something in you. I think recently a boy in grade 10, he reached out to me and asked to interview me on a podcast. Interestingly, he was doing a podcast on people who had overcome obstacles. And he remembered that I had spoken at assembly three years ago about my cancer journey at our Terry Fox assembly. And he really wanted to talk to me about my journey. And it was such a compliment, A, that he asked me, but also B, that he remembered something that I had said at assembly and wanted to connect with me about something that he said had deeply impacted him personally. So I think the best compliments come from the kids.

speaker-0: Absolutely. And I know you are an avid reader and book club lover. What's a great book that all leaders should be reading?

speaker-1: ⁓ gosh. Okay. This one's hard because there's so many. Obviously I really love Brittany Brown's books, but I'm going to recommend a book. It's a, it's a short book. It's called reduce change to increase improvement. think is what it's called reduce change to increase improvement. And it's by Vivian Robinson. And what I love about it is it's really focused on not changing for changes sake. but really thinking about ⁓ how to influence for improvement rather than just for change. I think a lot of schools, they confuse activity with progress, right? And she really helps reframe it around that it doesn't have to be about constant change, but it can be about doing the things that you're already doing, but doing them even more effectively.

speaker-0: What is your get up and go song in the morning?

speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ I love any song that makes you feel like you're in a roller skating rink. right now I'm very into Harry Styles, ⁓ The Harry's House, music for a sushi restaurant, that one. I just love that song. It's so fun.

speaker-0: And what's one small daily ritual that keeps you grounded?

speaker-1: ⁓ doing my gratitude every evening with my daughter. We talk about what we're grateful for and makes me pretty happy to hear what she's grateful for. And it gives me a chance to think about what I'm grateful for too.

speaker-0: love that. And so to end our conversation, what does lead her higher mean to you?

speaker-1: It's really all about like the trace that we want to leave behind in our leadership, right? And I think if I can leave the trace behind that sort of what Kelly did for me, right? If I can build capacity in others and have an organization where everybody feels like they're a leader and to be honest, like the girls, I'm going to be raising two girls. So the two girls in my family, if they know who they are and they know what they believe and they know how they want to make a difference in their organization, in the school, or in their world, I think that I will have had a pretty incredible career.

speaker-0: Sarah, thank you so much for your generosity in our conversation today. What comes through is clearly your deep sense of alignment with your values and your decisions and between care and courage and how you lead. Your reflections remind us that leadership isn't about a position or performance, it's really about presence. It's how we show up for people, how we hold high expectations with humanity and how we create space for others to grow. It's always so fun to have these conversations both on and off the mic. and thank you for the way that you lead and the way that you lift others up as well.

speaker-1: ⁓ thanks Emily. It was really fun. I really, really enjoyed it. Thank you.

speaker-0: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Lead Her Higher. I hope you're leaving today inspired by Sarah's story, how your values show up in your daily decisions, how you stay steady in high pressure moments, and how you create the conditions for others to grow. Until next time, lead with courage, lift others up, and always lead her higher.