Jason Harwood: Welcome to another episode of Talking Grid. I am Jason Harwood With me is Jacob Litton We have lots of Lion stuff to talk about, lots of NFL stuff to talk about. We need to jump right in there. So before we do though, Jacob, how you doing?

Jacob Litton: I'm all right, man. You know, constantly getting updates on Twitter X, trying to stay relevant, trying to stay posting on there. It's hard for me, you know, actually being at work most of the time to stay up on all of these updates. I was off today, so that was nicer. But what has that been like for you working remote and being able to see everything on your phone?

Jason Harwood: Yes. Yeah, it's hard to not go to X every time I see a notification. One thing I did find super helpful though is ESPN has the live tracker and basically the tweets just get updated on there and I don't have to update it just automatically comes up. It's a little bit delayed from X like maybe 15 seconds, 20 seconds, but that's how I've been keeping up to date with everything. But yeah, it is nice. One time you and I both posted at the same time when Rodrigo come back. So apparently we were both Really excited about Rodrigo coming back as we post, ⁓ quoted the same post. And, I thought that was funny.

Jacob Litton: That was funny. It was right as I was on lunch. I was on lunch. I got the news about Rodrigo. I was like, oh, that's awesome. And I posted it. And I posted it. I hit submit. Maybe 10 seconds go by. And then I get the notification that, oh, Talking Grip posted. But it was not what I put. So then I went to our page. I was like, oh, Jason copying me now. It was like 10, 15 seconds apart.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. ⁓ I know. Well, I put something a little... Exactly. So before we get into the lion stuff, I have two questions I want to ask you, Jacob. ⁓ I really wouldn't like... ⁓ don't want any reasoning of why you choose what you choose. We're going to let the episode speak for itself. But I just want to know right now, give me one or two words to describe how you feel about free agency in regards to lions. Don't give me justification. Just give me one or two words.

Jacob Litton: Underwhelming.

Jason Harwood: now give me one or two words. Is that okay? I like it. Mine would be status quo. ⁓ That's just how I feel. All right, so give me one or two words to describe how you feel about the lion's roster right now.

Jacob Litton: That's the word I'm going with. you I guess I guess I'm just going to say unsure. If I'm being honest, I'm just putting one word in there. I'm just going to say unsure. For not giving any reasoning about it, but yeah, OK.

Jason Harwood: sure. Alright, I'm saying in progress. I'm going with in progress, alright, man. big news, you know, last episode we talked about Taylor Decker being back. This is a totally different, we got to talk about him again, but in a totally different context. He asked for his release. I'm going to ask when you saw that, like that post, like what went through your head? Like, were you in complete shock or how are you feeling?

Jacob Litton: That's fair too. So my initial reaction, I did not get to read his post. I saw Twitter, everything on fire, that Decker is going to be leaving the Lions. Before I saw what he said, I kind of thought this may have been a move initiated by the Lions. Maybe he ⁓ it upon himself to be like, I'm coming back for another season. And then the Lions had to talk to him and be like, hey, we kind of think we want to move in a different direction or something like that. So that's kind of what I thought initially. And then I saw what he posted on Instagram, you know, like his message, kind of like how when he posted that he was going to be back, which kind of alluded to the fact where, you know, seems like there were some contract negotiations, some pay cuts or things of that nature that they talked about, and they just couldn't agree to it. So he just asked to be cut, which is disappointing. But I mean, that tracks and makes sense for, you know, what the Lions are trying to do. And I guess what he feels like he's worth right now. But what about you?

Jason Harwood: Yeah. I was disappointed that I did. then, and I read the, well, I don't have Instagram, but I think someone posted the Instagram thing on Twitter. So that's why I saw it and read it. And yet you get to the part where, you know, it talks about, I was planning on coming back, battling with my, you know, betting with my teammates and you know, there was some un,

Jacob Litton: You saw the post right away, right? Yeah. ⁓

Jason Harwood: or unplanned negotiations or something to that effect where it makes that sound like he thought he was just going to play. the lion said, ⁓ not so fast. We're gonna, we need to talk about it a little bit, which is a shame that had to end that way. ⁓ doesn't totally surprise me. from a lion's perspective, ⁓ they his injury, so they know more than what you and I know. Right? So our idea was like, if he's going to come back, ⁓ we're, you and I have both said that It doesn't change our plans about drafting. We still would need to draft a tackle. And maybe by the end of the year, that tackle is ready to supplant Taylor Decker and then Taylor Decker is going to retire. The Lions probably looked at it and said, Hey, I guess if that's our plan, are we really want to pay this guy 21 million if we're only planning on having them available half a year. I don't know. not, the door isn't totally closed yet. He hasn't signed with anyone. His decision maybe be like, know what, screwed lions. I'm not going to come back and play for less. I'll go sign with someone else. Well, if the market's not there for him to sign, I think, you know, he's either going to, you know, take a lot less or retire. I think there'll be opportunities out there for another team, but for Taylor Decker, you've been in one city for 10 years. Are you really going to want to pack up? injured for a different franchise learn everything new he might have a change of reasoning and be like you know what I'll come back to Lions and play for you know half or whatever I don't know ⁓ I'm not I don't think the doors closed just yet

Jacob Litton: I thought the same thing as far as the retirement thing. I think that that might still be on the table. I think once he sees what's out there, sees what other guys are getting, what teams are willing to offer him with his age, his injury history, everything that's happening like that, I don't think he's going to get paid at or near what he was before. I think he's going to have to take a pay cut, which is like he said. If he was OK with taking a pay cut, he'd still be here right now. If he's willing to take a little bit less and still play, didn't seem like he's wanting to. Well, if he gets out there and finds out that no one's willing to offer him the money that he wants, then he's just going to retire. That's how I feel. I don't think he's going to play on like a small, unless the team offers him a decent size contract. I don't think he's going to play on that, but I do think him posting that online and, ⁓ you know, the lions officially releasing him closes the door. I don't think he'll be back.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. You think so? Yeah, I think it's likely that he's going to retire. I mean, if I had to put my mind in anything, it's that opposed to going to another team, because I don't think he's going to get the money that he thinks is probably worth it for him to come back. Last year was obviously a struggle for him. Didn't practice very much. And maybe the Lions looked at it this year like, man, if we're not going to have him in practice, maybe that's why our running game wasn't, you know, we didn't gel. I know that you, you know, Jacob, and I, and I agree too, but you really make a point all the time of saying, I want my, all five, my offensive lineman working together, you know, in a preseason game or, know, in practice all the time. And that's how they gel. And they just couldn't do that last year. And if it was going to be, if the line saw the writing on the wall, that it was going to be the same, maybe they decided, you know, it's best to move on now. I still would like to have Taylor Decker on this team though. as the way the team sets right now.

Jacob Litton: Well, maybe he'll retire and then right before Thanksgiving, he'll announce that he's coming back for the rest of the year.

Jason Harwood: ⁓ my god. Yeah. And then, ⁓ yeah, we don't need to go through that pain anymore. ⁓ so the lions, you know, caught him. saved 11.6 million in cap year. And then he is accounting as of right now, a $9.4 million debt cap. Now when they, released them, they did not designate him as opposed to June 1st. So it looks like, they're going to just take the dead cap hit all this year.

Jacob Litton: Yeah.

Jason Harwood: I don't know if they could change that designation now later on. I don't know. think he had to designate it as he released them. So starting offensive line is drastically changed from two seasons ago. is the only holdover that we're going to have going into this season from two years ago as sits right now, unless they re-signed Graham back. But the way that his post went, it sounds like that ship has sailed too.

Jacob Litton: Right.

Jason Harwood: I don't know. I'm happy about it in some respect because obviously the offensive line needed a lot of work, but it also gives me a lot of trepidation. Like, you don't know how all these pieces are going to work together.

Jacob Litton: Exactly. Hence the unknown, unsure. Like it's just, you know, and we need to add more to the offensive line, right? We don't even know. We still don't know what it's going to look like. Hopefully we sign another player or two plus the draft, you know, which we'll talk about a little bit here, but not too much offensive line help on the way as of right now.

Jason Harwood: Yeah, that's right. No. No, we'll talk about our signs and we'll get in there because Kate Mays obviously was our big one in there, but we'll talk about that in a minute. But first, before we get there, Jared Goff restructured his contract, which allowed us to get under the salary cap today. People were freaking out about this. I don't understand. I told them, like, why hasn't it happened yet? They thought, like, it felt like there was a bunch of conspiracy theories about it. And I was like, it literally doesn't happen to have to happen until Wednesday at four o'clock. Why would they? restructure this, they're probably waiting to see how much they spend and then they'll know how much they have to do. Were you freaking out about it at all?

Jacob Litton: No, but I think the reason for people freaking out is that it was it was always just such a far gone conclusion that we were going to be restructuring him to make this cap space. I think that everyone thought that we were going to, you know, they thought the Lions were going to restructure to make as much possible space as they can right now. And that's not what they did. Right. They left a certain amount right now that changes the cap hits for the next couple of years adds a void year. But it doesn't exactly make it, you know, as catastrophic the next couple of years as it could have been, right? Because we could have converted even more of that salary into a bonus. We could have made more cap hits later in the future. They're trying to be a little bit smarter about it because obviously, cap hits the next few years are just as large as this year. So, you know, I think that there was more to it than like, yeah, let's just click this button and we'll give him all this money up front and then we'll have all this space and then we'll get Max Crosby and we'll get all these guys and all these high profile, you know.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Hahaha.

Jacob Litton: That's just what most of these fans seem to want.

Jason Harwood: Yeah, exactly. So as Jacob kind of alluded to, we converted 40 million of his base salary into a bonus, and then we added a void year. basically, 8 million is... So we opened up 32 million of space this year because of 40 million minus the 8 million that goes from his bonus structure throughout the five years. But as Jacob said, 2027 cap it. Next year's cap hit as it stands right now is 62.6 million. Two years from now is 69.6 million. Now, if they keep having record increases, and I think in 2028, you're going have the new TV contracts, so you're going to have a huge increase. So those cap hits are going to be large, but they'll be less of a percentage than what we were to face this year. And essentially when they do this, they're taking a loan on the player and where, you know, the player gets all the money right now. But we're spreading out these payments over the life of the contract. And we added another void year so that when this contract's over, million is still going to count against the cap after this contract's over. So if golf were to leave, that 16 million is obviously a dead cap hit. If he stays and signs an extension, then we have to work that 16 million in somewhere into the next contract, and we could spread it out even further. you know, the caps are real, we're gonna, you you have to pay that at some point. But, you know, we're just spreading it out and you're at some point, it's not gonna as increase in record space every year, year after year after year. At point, that's just not gonna happen.

Jacob Litton: Right.

Jason Harwood: Uh, real quick, uh, Dan pass. I'm gonna say what's up. said, uh, I'm he's talking about Taylor Decker. I'm sad the way it ended, but if Pineda was, is going to move to left tackle drafting a tackle in the first two rounds, allow that move to happen ahead of the season. Taylor staying would have stopped it. And probably, yes, I agree. Um, as far as, you know, them moving Pineda over to left tackle or whatever, but I still would have liked to have just the veteran presence of Taylor in there for another year. there are some benefits we can just move on and plug in there. it does worry me because I don't want to have to draft someone that we know is going to have to start.

Jacob Litton: Right. We don't want that pressure of them immediately being thrown to the wolves.

Jason Harwood: Exactly. And then, you know, all of a sudden, you know, now you're going to move Penae if you move Penae to the left. So now you got Rattlage playing against a brand new tackle over there. Taylor, you know, Tate's second year player. It makes it a little, you know, little rougher, but hopefully Tate has a huge second year jump and that side of the line will be good to go. You ready to move on to who the line signed or didn't sign?

Jacob Litton: Yeah, let's get through with, ⁓ right.

Jason Harwood: Alright, I'll let you start. We're going to start with the players' alliance signed. So go ahead, Jacob.

Jacob Litton: So the biggest one, the most noteworthy, we signed center Cade Mays from the Panthers. him three years, $25 million. He 26 years old, pro football graded an amount of 62.4 last year. Not exactly top five, but this is somebody with center experience. Just for reference, Glasgow 33. So Cade Mays is already getting younger than Glasgow is pro football focus grade was 56.8. So getting a little bit younger, a little bit better. And you also have to remember that Panthers team, you know, struggled a lot for a lot of the year. So maybe having a different, know, line, different people around, maybe the center play is going to be a little bit better, different scheme and everything like that. ⁓ But real quick, just before we move on, like just what are your overall thoughts? Because obviously, Linderbaum was the huge one, right? That's what everybody ⁓ That's what everyone had their eyes set on. And then Linderbaum signs for twenty seven million dollars a year.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jacob Litton: And then everyone's hoping for ⁓ McGovern or Beattish and then McGovern resigns with the bills, Beattish signs with the chargers for average of 10 million a year. And then it kind of felt like if we want to center, we've got to make this move. Cade Mays is the logical next one on the list. And then sure enough, not too long after that, the Lions announced a deal with him for an average of 8.3 million a year. you know, a third of the price of Linderbaum, less than a third of the price of Linderbaum.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah, his whole contract is cheaper than one year of Linderbombs. So I'm happy with it. ⁓ Linderbombs would have been the home run, but not worth edge money. mean, you know, that's what you're paying them. You're paying a guy that plays out on the edge on tackle money ⁓ in the lines didn't have the space to have that luxury. And like you said, McGovern was the guy that I want.

Jacob Litton: Yeah.

Jason Harwood: He obviously decided to return to the bills, didn't even reach free agency. So that was not going to happen. Biatish would have been all right. He did end up getting 10 million a year. So at the point where we were to get Cade Mays was good because it's a huge drop off after that. We're either looking at drafting or moving Tate over or looking for just out of the box options. And to get Cade Mays for 8.33 million. I'm okay with that. That was a good, good way to spend the money. He's a, he's young. He's already going to be, I think an upgrade over Glasgow. He's obviously younger. ⁓ he's got room to improve too. He doesn't have a ton of experience at center, which at some point is not good. You're like, want someone with like spirits, but from another standpoint, you're looking at, he's like, he's got room to grow and Hank Fraley can get him going. ⁓ so I, I, I do like getting younger on the line. think that's good. The guy looks like a mauler, but he is, is past blocking grade is better than his run blocking grade. So that's something we'll have to watch during the season.

Jacob Litton: Yeah, he started his college career at Georgia too. So, you know, these Georgia offensive linemen were trying to build over here in Detroit.

Jason Harwood: Exactly.

Jacob Litton: But yeah, I mean, it was just the next the next best option and the bargain deal. And when you do this, you know, then you don't have to have that. You know, if we didn't sign a center, if we didn't get a center, then you have to have that real discussion about moving Tate over again. And I think them signing one really solidifies the fact that they did not want to have to move Tate Rallidge over to center. I know they talked, they were kind of up and down about it, like, you know, he didn't really do a bad job or anything like that. But I mean, it's not ideal.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yep.

Jacob Litton: Right. It wasn't ideal. Now we've got somebody with center experience, you know, young. We're going to hope for the best here. Right.

Jason Harwood: Yes. I mean, I'm hanging my hat on this was the sign. I obviously we weren't like going crazy and free agency. So we don't have like a lot to choose from, but when this happened, I felt good right away. Cause it happened on Monday. All right. We made a signing. Got someone that I'm okay with. and, uh, you know, it just, it's solidified also right guard, like you said, take and be there. I mean, Justin Rogers projects him to be possible pro bowl right guard. And I want to keep that guy there. I want to keep him there. know, if we can improve, I mean, the whole thing is we need to improve over last year. And we lost Taylor Decker. So we got to figure out the tackle spot, but we did improve off the middle by getting Cade Mays in my opinion this year. So that that's good. I, it was a good start to free agency. Wasn't the offensive lineman that we signed, did sign a tackle. ⁓ Larry Boahm from the Dolphins. He's, Only played right tackle. He also is 26 years old. So he's young. PFF grade ⁓ last year was 60.7, whereas Taylor Decker was 67.9. Do you ⁓ is Boram our answer? I mean, if he's going to be a right tackle, we move Panay over. Is he our swing tackle? ⁓ you're feeling on that signing, Jacob?

Jacob Litton: was going to ask you that same exact question because I don't know what the plan is for him right now. I think that he just gives you a little bit maybe of versatility. Obviously, he's only played on the right side. If the move is to put Pene over to the left regardless, whoever, mean, assuming that we draft tackle round one or like pretty high, then you know, you don't have to throw them out there right away. You possibly have this guy to compete a little bit more of veteran presence, you know. That's the thing that's kind of underwhelming about free agency is that, you know, this was not any sort of like a home run hit, right? This is kind of just like, OK, we're on first base. We're to see what happens with this. There's no guarantee that we're going to score. But the contract details have not come out yet either, right? I mean, I'm sure he's got a very, very small contract. It's not like we're offering him a lot of money either.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. I think. Yeah, no, I know when the contract details don't come out like a lot of the Lions contract details hadn't come out. It means the agents sound like super happy, know, proud about it. So they're not they're not throwing it out there because like Pacheco's didn't come out for like a whole day and we'll get to his, you know, his details. And so I think it borrows the same way. You know, as of right now, he might be our starting tackle, but I think that, you know, probably whoever we draft is going to move in there or, you know, someone gets cut. And we sign a veteran at some point. But you know, if you're a Lions fan, the way this team is built right now, this is the type of stuff you're going to expect the first week of free agency. Free agency is not over guys. Like there's going to be the second wave of people getting cut, moving around. That's when the Lions really go shopping. Right now it's like trying to find the best deals like Cade, Cade Mays was a really good deal. All those other guys, huge, mean, Linderbaum, I said, 27 million just destroyed the record for center per year. Like that's the type of contracts that happen, you know, this week at free agency, you're overpaying for a lot of guys. we get down to what our NFC North rivals are, you know, do, you know, the Vikings spent so much money last year and now they've dropped almost half the guys that they signed last year because they're way over in the cap. You know, and now they're going to pay all this dead cat money. They're, they're in trouble. Lines don't want to play like that. it can be frustrating and I do find it frustrating that I, you know, it'd be nice to open the Christmas present underneath the tree. Right. I want a big, you know, the big gift, the gift that, you know, I want to open up Max Crosby. He's sitting under my Christmas tree, put them at, you know, edge and then that would be super exciting, but it just, it's not likely going to happen. you know, for a while here, the way the lines are built right now.

Jacob Litton: What would be your level of disappointment if this was it for like tackle, the offensive line, if we did not sign another tackle until right before training camp?

Jason Harwood: I beep. Yeah.

Jacob Litton: So like, let's say we don't sign anybody else. mean, it's gotta be somebody that we draft. But I mean, just speaking on free agency terms, like if we don't end up signing anybody else before the draft.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. before the draft. want I'd like I know. I gotta be honest with you. don't I'm not

Jacob Litton: There's a lot of names out there. There's a lot of people available.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. And that's the thing like, I'm not going to really worried about it until we get the training camp because there are going to, I won't say don't training camp, but after the draft, there's another wave of free agency right after the draft, when you go through and see what you got. And I think the lions at that point will, you know, they'll make a move if they don't get in the drive. Now, you know, we draft a first tackle in the first round, depending on who we get, I'm going to pencil that guy in as a starter. And hopefully, you know, he's ready to come in right away. And then I will be, I won't be too worried about it because you know, we did sign Boram. has starting capabilities. He started in the NFL. So at least we have that. I wouldn't be surprised. They bring Jamarco Jones back or something like that. Who they plan on him being the, you know, the next tackle. He was tackle three last year before he got hurt. ⁓ so, you know, and then obviously we got Manu, which I'm not banking too much on him. But he still is on our team and see if he's in the plans or not. But what about you? Are you freaking out if this is how we go in after the draft? Or can you be patient with it?

Jacob Litton: There's too many veterans out there. I feel like we've got to get somebody else. And, know, it doesn't have to be tomorrow, but I mean, we've got to add somebody now. I don't want it to be after the draft. I don't want to be one of those things where depending on how the draft goes is that, you know, what angle that we look at, I don't want to be like, you know, a camp body or something like that. Because I think that there's guys out there right now that can add value to the team, even if they don't start. They've got the veteran stuff, though they can help out with the rookie.

Jason Harwood: Yeah.

Jacob Litton: You know, they can slot in when needed. There's guys like that out there. So, you know, I would be disappointed if we just didn't go with anybody else.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking of how many roster spots there are for offensive linemen. mean, got the wild card of a Who is he going to make it? know, Scruggs, ⁓ we got in the David Montgomery trade. ⁓ his backup center has guard capabilities, but he's also not guaranteed a roster spot. So I mean, ⁓ do have some flexibility there. I'm going to be patient with it. But I also understand from your perspective and from a, from my team building perspective, I'd rather not go into the draft going, have to draft a tackle in the first round because number one, if the outside perception is that, that people could jump us or we may feel the need to jump up and get who we want as opposed to getting the best player available. it's an interesting thought. I, you know, I don't know. It depends on who's out there. I don't want to like give some guy a contract and then just eat dead money. Cause if we draft you know, get a player in the first round. And then we're sitting with this veteran that we're paying money on the bench. But, you know, I guess I don't, I'd have to see who it is. Before we get to our re-signings, let's talk about the running back. Isaiah Pacheco came in. Before you saw the numbers or, you know, the contract, what was your thought when you saw Pacheco sign with the Lions?

Jacob Litton: Right. I was okay with it. I like, okay, you know, this guy, I knew that he's coming off the injury, but this guy has potential to be a battering ram and he also can break one off every once in a while. And we just need a kind of a change of pace. Obviously we've committed that we're going to be giving Gibbs the ball a whole lot. So you just need somebody for short yard situations or everyone wants them out to give them a breather. And I think Pacheco matches what that's supposed to be.

Jason Harwood: I agree. I saw the contract too and I was like 1.8 million. I mean, there might be some, but I bet you there's gotta be some like a bonus structure in there that they haven't put out there. But 1.8 million, you figure we got him cheaper obviously than Monte and we got fourth and seventh around pick now. I think Monte would be better. However, this could be one of those buy low. mean, Pacheco is betting on himself. He's hoping that he comes in here.

Jacob Litton: Yeah.

Jason Harwood: You know, has a good year and then he parlayed this into a bigger contract next year. Uh, I, before we move on, I reached out to, um, Seth, uh, Keesor, he runs, uh, chief, the chief chief in the North, which is like a newsletter on sub sack. He also reports on the chief. I asked him, I'm like, give us some information on Pacheco. So I'm going to read what he, he wrote. Um, and then, you guys, so you guys can have a little insight to someone from a. wonderful locker room guy, energy guy, ⁓ beloved by his teammates, plays incredibly hard. Sounds like a Lions, right? Sounds like a Lions player right there. The problem for him is that he never recovered from his explosion after injuries. And because he's not an RB who plays with great vision, it really hindered him in the last several years. He was never an elite RB in terms of explosions, speed. but had just enough and ran hard enough that he was able to be at an NFL average running back. Without an explosion, he wasn't there. Hopefully he regains it. Reliable and pass protection at this point overall. Good effort there, not a tackle breaker in space the last several years. So there's your concern and that's why he's available for 1.8 million. He's had a couple of injury riddled years the last two years. He's lost his explosion. Hopefully recovering from that, he gets that back. I get it though. get it. What the Lions of Vision RB2 now isn't David Montgomery. It's the guy that we get in the field for the eight, you know, eight to 10 snaps a game. And we're hoping for short yardage that we could get him, you know, he'll get in the end zone he'll get the first down. There are concerns with that though, right, Jacob? I mean, I've seen the stats about they didn't use them in the goal line last year. They used Kareem Hunt. So I don't know.

Jacob Litton: Right. He also has been battling injuries. So who knows how much that has to say with that. I mean, for one year, 1.8 million, that's that's chump change. Really, that's like, you know, such a small amount. That's not even necessarily have to keep him on the team. You could cut him in training camp if it wasn't going well.

Jason Harwood: I Right. I like the signing. I'm okay with it. ⁓ I would have liked to LGR, but these guys like 6 million. they, you know, they saved money going this year. It's one of those things that, know, we're low, low, you know, low risk. I don't think it's necessarily high reward, but you know, you're hoping that he could just tow the rock enough, get those fourth and one situations that, you know, we like to go for, get the first down. You know, he was eight for eight on short yards, like third and one shorter, but they didn't use them in the goal line. So I see what the Lions want to use him for. I think it's okay. ⁓ it is interesting though. We are going to be putting a lot of miles on Gibbs. Does that concern you at all? Like going in, you know, yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Litton: Yes, we've talked about that. Yes, it does. I liked what we had going on. I liked being able to give him a breather and his season, extend his career, make sure he stays healthy. He's not out there too much. I thought we had the perfect recipe and lions otherwise.

Jason Harwood: Right. I'm right there with you. I so. It's I'm beginning to think like, I don't know if I would sign. I love Gibbs and I think he's explosive, but I also worry about putting all this mileage on him. It's like, I almost think. You know, if we we got him for this year, obviously the next year, fifth year for the fifth year option, and then we could franchise him and still be cheaper than probably what we're going to sign him. It's almost like we could have three more years. I am not in a hurry to sign Gibbs. to another contract this year, to be honest with you. I just not, just because of the running back position. ⁓ you know, we saw what we have with the lean, we signed him early and then he get, you know, he got injured and we basically lost a year from that. I, it does concern me and it's mostly just that position. So I would, I don't know if I'm in a hurry to sign Gibbs as, the teammates seem to be or as other people want him to be. I think that I'd be better off. let him go three years and you know, the franchise and then go from there. But would, you have any thoughts on that?

Jacob Litton: I think the only benefit of signing him early is that you beat Bijan's contract. And then you hopefully you save a little bit because Bijan when he signs is gonna be whoever signs last is gonna get more than the other guy, right? I mean, that's the way it's shaping up to be right now. That could only be a million a year, half a million a year or something you don't know yet. But I think that'd be the only benefit ⁓ beating them to the punch and getting that contract done early.

Jason Harwood: Yeah.

Jacob Litton: But yeah, mean, running back the durability and everything, the way the position is played anymore, that's a real problem. You can't really count on them to be, you know, having 10 year career and being able to perform at that high of a level.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Well, and also with Gibbs, I don't mean, I would not say Gibbs has elite vision. I would say, you know, he does have good vision, but I don't I would not say he has elite vision. And my fear is if he ever has a leg injury and he loses some of that top end speed, then he does he becomes a lot less dynamic. And then you start to worry about that. And then there's going to be a huge fall off. Not wishing that. I don't think that's going to I hope that doesn't happen. But you have to think about it.

Jacob Litton: Knock on wood, you put those words back in your mouth.

Jason Harwood: Yeah, sorry. Nothing I said has anything to do with that. That's going to happen on the field. Believe me. All right. Three re-signings. First one I already mentioned, Rodrigo is back one year. As far as I know, the numbers haven't come out on that. I doubt it's very high. signed Teddy Bridgewater, which was that surprising that we got Teddy back?

Jacob Litton: It was surprising. I mean, it made sense, but yeah, like, you know, it made sense, but still surprising. I did not expect it to come up.

Jason Harwood: I did not have that on my bingo card. I think we all went in. Yeah. I think we all went in thinking Kyle Allen's just going to come back. That's the way I felt at least. I didn't think he was going to be that expensive, but it worked out that, do you think the plan was always to bring Teddy back? And that's why Kyle signed somewhere on Monday or do you, or, you know, agree to a contract on Monday? Obviously couldn't sign them. Or do you think that we pivoted after Kyle Allen left and then we said, Hey, Teddy.

Jacob Litton: Right. Right. think Kyle left for more money and we were like, know what, Teddy, you're out there. You already know the system. You've been, you know, just come back.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm quarterback too. If we get to quarterback two during the season, we're, you know, we're going to be worried no matter who's in there. I don't think Teddy is going to be winning us ball games ⁓ the quarterback two position. However, I think from everything else, the intangibles, ⁓ know, as far as like film study, being a good teammate, that's probably an upgrade over Kyle Allen. I, in my field, in my, ⁓ In my opinion. So I am happy about it from that standpoint. ⁓ it's not like Kyle Allen was going to develop in anything over here. He's thrown three passes in the last three years of the NFL. And I remember last year talking so much about it, quarterback too. with Jared Goff, he's so durable. That's like, why, ⁓ do we even waste our breath? But I guess we got to come up with content. So that's why we talked about a lot of it was Henning Hooker though too, right?

Jacob Litton: Well, that's what I was just going to say is what's interesting to me is like, I can't picture Teddy Bridgewater playing an entire preseason game either. There's no need to. So do we draft a quarterback late in this draft? Do we just have undrafted free agent quarterbacks that come in for camp and are just showing what they have and like earning a spot on the practice squad? That part is going to be weird for me. But there's no need for Teddy Bridgewater play an entire preseason game. just, you know, it doesn't benefit anybody.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, I he needs to get out there and play. mean, he, I mean, he didn't play. I don't know how many games he got into last year with the Buccaneers, but, you know, it'd be nice to get him some in there, but he doesn't need to play extensive amounts. mean, he's got plenty of NFL experience. All right. I want to get to the resigning that I'm most excited about, and I'm sure that you're most excited about that's Rocketson coming back one year, 4 million. That was a huge relief for on many levels. ⁓

Jacob Litton: I feel like you only played one.

Jason Harwood: How did you feel when you saw that pop through?

Jacob Litton: Oh yeah, I was happy. mean, obviously, Rock played pretty well last year for us. It was nice to be able to get him back. Also, not for like a gigantic pay increase either. But, you know, also just adding another, a resigning was great because for a while there, and we're going to talk about it in a minute, we were losing everybody. And it wasn't necessarily like, you know, that we thought that everybody was going to stay. Half those people were not all that surprising, but

Jason Harwood: Yeah.

Jacob Litton: When all of them are leaving and we don't have anybody resigning, that's when you're kind of like a little concerned, like, OK, what's going on here? We've got to get some of these guys back. And Rock was a big one to get back. He played pretty well. Obviously, cornerback is a position where we need more depth. Terion and Ennis Rakestraw having the injuries that they've had. DJ Reed was hurt for a little while last year. good to have Rock back.

Jason Harwood: Yep. Yes. Yes. Gives us a little stability. you know, he's going to come in obviously as quarterback three, assuming Terry on, you know, was there for the full season, know, DJ Reed should be, you know, back, problem. Get him for 4 million. Gets a little pay bump, but I'm okay with it. It gives us that stability and I'm happy for him too. He's been on like five different teams in five years or whatever. Finally, he gets to come to us and you know, he gets, earned. here on to pay bump and I'm happy for it. We need obviously we showed last year that we need a lot of depth in the corner back room. So I was happy for him to come back. All right, Jacob. So we signed all those. You know, I think that when you talked about, you know, us losing free agents as we're going to talk about right now, it wasn't the fact. It was like the fact that they kept, you know, kept leaving. Like I knew Al, I didn't think Alex was coming back. You know, Amique was. ⁓ not a huge shock because I thought he was going to be priced out of what we wanted to pay for him. But it was the Kyle Allen, Roy Lopez leaving that it was like, just keeps adding. And then not only is it adding that people are leaving, then it creates a hole on a roster that we got to replace with someone too. And so that made it, that made a little more nerve wracking for me. So talk about who we lost. ⁓ Alex signed with the Buccaneers. He's from Florida and made sense that he goes down there. I was so glad he didn't end up in the Bears. I didn't want to face Alex two times every year. gets eight and half million a year. So two years, 17 million. Does that contract seem about right for Alex, think?

Jacob Litton: I think that it does. But that's the thing that kind of didn't make a whole lot of sense is it seemed like he was mad that he wanted to get a huge pay increase. Right. I mean, he felt like we had that whole kind of weird thing last year. Let me see. I don't have it right in front of me right now. How much was he making? He was making about six, six or seven million a year with us. And now he's making eight million with the Buccaneers. So he's gotten a small pay increase. I think that checks out.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jacob Litton: And that was one that we all I mean, even though it was not off of the table, it always felt like Alex was not going to be back to me.

Jason Harwood: Yep. Yes, I agree. Even though he just started doing commercials for Sam Bird scene on FanDuel, noticed. oldest is like, why is he doing that? He's not even really on the team right now. It was weird. But Amiq signs ⁓ the commanders, two years, 16 million. That have been definitely out of the Lions price range. I think that's why he chose to move on. Does this one hurt Amiq leaving?

Jacob Litton: Yeah, right. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. where you surprised, I was just gonna say, I really like Amik, know, so it does kind of hurt because I want him back. But at the same time, when you talk about how much money he's getting, that part's like, man, ⁓ you think that he earned that? mean,

Jason Harwood: Yeah.

Jacob Litton: Obviously the commanders have been spending a lot of money. They're throwing money everywhere, so...

Jason Harwood: I don't... Yeah. Well, I think part of it is like, it's hard to judge Amik on last year because they had him playing, like he should be playing nickel and they got him playing, you know, on the number one wide receiver every week at certain points last year. And Amik is all right. And I mean, in that position and you know, he's locked down Justin Jefferson. We've seen him do it before, but to ask him to do that week after week was, was a huge ask for the Lions. I was necessary. So I don't know if his numbers actually bear out, but obviously their team see it and they gave him a raise and he, you know, he's, don't know what they're going to have him play in there. If they're going to have him play nickel or outside corner, because Sandra still is their nickel. So I don't know if they're going to move Sandra still out and keep meek at nickel or I don't, I'm, curious.

Jacob Litton: maybe move same or still to safety. Might be on the table or something like that. Yeah. I don't know. But the commander's yet again throwing money at everybody. So. ⁓

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, they had a last year and a very aging roster too. So they, you know, spent some money. The next guy that we lost was Roy Lopez. ⁓ know that we both wanted to have back. so one hurt when I saw that he left. Went back to Arizona though. And I'm wondering if the Lions offered him money and he just wanted, he's from Arizona and I wondered if he just wanted to go back, back home.

Jacob Litton: Yeah, I mean, his contract was not like ⁓ huge. He was getting like five million a year for the Cardinals, though, which was more than he got here. Correct. I don't have his numbers in front of me, but I still think everyone.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yes. He had four and a half, he got four and a half million last year.

Jacob Litton: So I mean, everyone's getting a slight pay increase. I think that he played up to that in the limited time that he had here. So yeah, that one really stung. That was one that I really wanted to get back. And I thought we were going to be able to get that done. like you said, if he's from Arizona and he kind of just wanted to be there, obviously the Cardinals team is not in a better position than the Lions team is right now. But gets a little bit of a pay increase to go back home. So can't fault the guy for that.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nope. Kyle Allen, who I already said, signed with the Bills. And then the last one they're going to talk about is Khalif Raymond signing with the Bears. Going to the Bears obviously has a little added oomph to it, right? So are you sad to see Khalif go? Does him going to the Bears add anything to you? Or what you feel about that?

Jacob Litton: Yeah, I didn't want him to go to the Bears. But, you know, obviously Ben Johnson, Antoine Randall, that also like, you know, it makes sense. If we weren't going to bring him back, that makes sense for him to want to go to the Bears and go with, you know, familiar people and, you know, where he knows what kind of role he's going to have, how he's going to be used. Sucks to lose Khalif because he has been with us for so long and, you know, he's been a part of that wide receiver room. You know, would it be impossible to upgrade off of Khalif? No. I think that we're going to be able to find somebody and upgrade in the return. And obviously his ⁓ snaps on offense were kind of dwindling anyway. that's one, like it sucks because I didn't want to lose him. It sucks because I didn't want him to go to the Bears. But if that was the only one, it's like, OK, you know what? I see it. can live with it. But Anzaloni, Robertson, Roy Lopez, Kyle Allen, Kaleef Raymond, I share that.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jacob Litton: increment gift with you. It's like son of a bee sting. It's like ⁓ my gosh like what yeah.

Jason Harwood: the I'm okay with Calif going. I really am. Like, I like what he added. Obviously he was a dynamic pump returner. However, I think we could get that. think Dorch is the guy from Arizona. He still hasn't signed. I think we're going to be able to sign him probably cheaper than we got Calif. He's familiar with Petsing. ⁓ I either that or I want, I don't know if Dorch, I think he might return kickoffs too, but I just want to upgrade both. I mean, I don't know we could upgrade punt returner in itself, but I want to stay even there and then also increase our kick return game. I think Dortz is younger. think that that's just the way to go. I'm okay with it. don't, I mean, we punting to Khalif when we're playing with the Bears? know, Jack Fox going to just like boot over his head? Are we going to cough and corner it? It'll be interesting to see because you know, Khalif is going to want to return one on us.

Jacob Litton: Right.

Jason Harwood: But you know, Cleve showed that he can't return kicks. He was too small. He kept getting injured. Like he just, you know, he would guy concussion the one time. I just, I'm okay with it. I'm, this is the one that I was like, okay. don't think I don't like it's him going to the bears. Now we're going to have to face him two times a year. and then it adds to the, you know, thing of like everyone just wants to be with Ben Johnson. No, I think, know, Cleve just. I, you know, Ben knows, knows what he had with Calif, but I also, don't think, I don't think Calif's opportunities are going to be drastically different in Chicago than they are, than they were in Detroit. Unless an injury happens or anything like that. ⁓

Jacob Litton: Right? Maybe not, but I mean, that could be a part of the plan. They were talking to him about maybe they do want to put him back in the offense. He knows Ben Johnson's offense and everything like that. Some trick plays and different things. So, you know, we'll find out.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. mean, mean, he, he's obviously get them in the open field, you know, good with reverses and stuff like that. Get them in the, ⁓ the open field and he's dangerous. That's for sure. So after all that, Jacob, now we got some openings, you know, we definitely need edge. We, cut Josh Pascal today too. I guess, you know, we didn't lose him free agency, but we released Josh Pascal. I'm a suit. didn't. release them at least they didn't say with an injury designation, but that's what I'm I'm going to just assume that's you know that he just wasn't going to be able to come back. So we really don't have an edge. And edge at all. So I am worried about that. So going into the draft, does it dad Pask asked a question I'm going to ask you. It doesn't have to be a tackle or an edge with our first two picks. Can we go any other route?

Jacob Litton: No, we can't. If we went in the draft tomorrow, no, we can't. Right? I mean, what? They're still edge defenders out there. They're still offensive tackles out there. We have not signed any of them yet. Is that, you know, a concern to you that, you know, obviously today's the first official day of the league year, but I mean, we're three days in, and we have not made any splashes. Like, I mean, we, we addressed the center position. That was a huge one. So we addressed that. That was good. That was positive.

Jason Harwood: Yeah, I agree. Yep, I know. Yeah.

Jacob Litton: But then, I mean, you look at like our top five physicians of need, the center was one of them, probably the number one, at least there's that. But we need safety help. We need cornerback help. We need edge. We need offensive tackle. We did not sign any of them. And we lost, you know, lost a and free agency. You know, it's kind of frustrating. I mean, there's still plenty of time. There's, know, it'll be way different as the draft happens and everything. The roster is going to look different. But it's frustrating when everybody around you is getting better. Everyone else is making moves, some big, some small. Some of these are like decent contracts that they're offering people. like, man, we could have got that guy for that much money. So kind of frustrating.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. The edge position. I I wasn't a huge guy that was worried about edge last year, although I probably should have been. But I feel like we need we need to have something out there. We're going to be our death is going to be so bad if we don't go out and sign some of these guys. And I don't like going to the draft locked into like those we have to the positions that we have to draft. I just don't like that feeling. And I'm also scared because I don't think that Brian Holmes necessarily feels that way. Like, I'm going to just draft, you know, if there's a linebacker he likes in the second round, he might go ahead and do that. And then, you know, then we're worried about edge. There's still plenty of there's so like some of the linebacker stuff could be done with like the edge stuff with scheme. We could get a linebacker that could play edge or, you know, as a Russian linebacker that might play out there. So there's a lot of things that we could still do. there's You know, like, Caden Ellis is still out there and that's the guy that I keep wanting to sign. I'm hoping that we get him. Huh? ⁓ did he sign? When did he sign? Okay. Okay. I did not see that.

Jacob Litton: Ellis signed. Ellis signed somewhere. I don't remember where, but I know that he signed somewhere. because he was somebody that I had looked at too. Saints. He went to Saints. 11 million a year.

Jason Harwood: Okay, well that's unfortunate. ⁓ Saints got him. All right, well that's probably more than I wanted to spend on him anyways, but it might have been, you know, might have been worth it. I don't know, I don't like the way, I don't feel really comfortable with where we're at right now with our roster. We have a long time to go and some of it's just impatient. I want it done, but free agency just started. The second wave will happen, going in from this weekend and on, and then there'll be a lull period until the draft. So maybe we'll feel better this time next week, Jacob.

Jacob Litton: I hope so. I'm not banking on it, but I hope so. There's a lot of names still out there. I mean, there's a lot of people still out there. There's a lot of moving parts who know, I mean, obviously I'm sure Brad Homes spending a lot of time on phone calls and talking to agents and trying to figure out what he can do. So there are things in progress or things in work. They're just not happening. We're not sealing the deal just yet.

Jason Harwood: Yep. Are you? There are. Are you, you interested in bringing DJ Reader back at all?

Jacob Litton: You know, before, free agency before everything started, I kind of just assumed that he probably was not going to be here and that we were going to be moving on. But now we lost Roy Lopez. So changes things a little bit there. I also don't because I felt like we were probably good at defensive tackle. I don't know who's out there. You know, that would be a huge you know, huge increase, I guess, over DJ Reader. I know, I know we're going to talk about it later. What was it? Hargrave. Hargrave got cut from Minnesota and then right away signs with Green Bay.

Jason Harwood: Yeah, it's a I'm not overly excited about getting DJ Reader back. Um, cause I think that he's probably wants to command more money than what I think the value. Cause I think that we want him tightly. Cause it's going to be the starter next year. I mean, I think that's if he's not a DJ reader, we're starting over him. Then I think then that. that draft pick would really worry me. think Tylek, you know, I've concerned a little bit about Tylek's work ethic from, I'm hoping that he's, you know, is in shape and all that stuff. I like the disruption. I do like that he gets his hands up and knocks down the pass. I love that dynamic about him. He's very good at, at doing that. Like if you're going to take up double teams, it's great to be able to knock down a pass because you're not getting to the pass rusher. mean, ideally we got a lean coming back at full speed. He is. You know, be able to get to the pass rush. Ty leak is doing the DJ reader role where he's taking out double teams, splitting double teams, taking on the runner. We're not expecting that much pass rush from Ty leak. where does that leave DJ reader? mean, you're going to have to have them for snaps. ⁓ you know, we definitely have snaps open because you're not going to have Ty leak and, you know, a lean taken 90 % of snaps. That's just not going to happen. You're going to have to have rotation. got Wingo in there, right? Like we don't know. ⁓ Kep was an active, inactive, know, he was, you know, definitely available for games, but inactive for a lot of games. So I don't know what to expect there. You got like what, like Chris Smith, you got the retreads back in there. We're going to need to decide someone.

Jacob Litton: It's not a great look for Wingo to be like a healthy scratch and to be like inactive, even though I don't think he was terrible when he was out there. You know, that was somebody in preseason that I thought, you know, was doing OK. But. I don't want to go into the season with it just being him. Wingo is the next man up. And if DJ Reader wants to come back and is willing to come back for like a five million, you know, something like that, that the thing is that cuts the salary in half. He made 11 million last year.

Jason Harwood: No. I think. Eicher.

Jacob Litton: But he'd have to be willing to take five or six to come back here.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Well, I, I think you, you tell him that and then he is sitting on, he's sitting on the bench, you know, that, uh, that he's, you know, he's not starting it's title league's job and you're coming back and you're, know, you're going to take up snaps and you're going to be in there, you know, when there's a tush push and you know, you're, you're going to be, when we go to a five man line, uh, you're going to have, you know, those are the types of snaps you're going to have. Obviously we need to, we're going to probably, you know, we're going to have to draft off, you know, line two. so maybe you, you know, on the fourth round we get a limem, right? Aleem was fourth, was Aleem fourth round, right? Or was he third?

Jacob Litton: I feel like he was third, but I don't know that, hang on.

Jason Harwood: third, because they did Levi and then Alim, right? So, I mean, and we could trade up to third. mean, you, could still get, you still could get some line help, going into it, but I, obviously we need more depth, but like you said, we got more free agency coming. I think we'll be, I, I don't want to get too crazy and worried about it right now, but, ⁓ you know, I am impatient just like you.

Jacob Litton: Yeah, Levi second round, Aleem third round. Yeah.

Jason Harwood: Okay. Yep. All right. Let's just briefly, I don't, don't need to go into depth on everything our opponents did, but I just want to talk about whether you think they got better or not. Let's just start with the Bears. ⁓ we're, you know, the big name that they had was Devin Bush, Kobe Bryant. those are the big names that they added. They obviously they're starting center retired. They traded DJ Moore, and Tremaine Edmonds went to the Giants. and they lost Kevin Byer today. Are they, the Bears, you know, what do you think about their roster? Are they sitting better than last year? Same? What do you think?

Jacob Litton: Well, you got to think Devin Bush. They lose Tremaine Edmonds, they get Devin Bush. Devin Bush played decent last year. familiar with him for Michigan, so that one could be a push. Maybe they're getting just as much out of it. Lost Byard, but they get Kobe Bryant from Seattle. You could call that one a push as well. They lost Drew Dalman, but then they traded for Garrett Bradbury. I don't know that they're necessarily getting better, but I think that they've done a pretty good job of filling these holes pretty much right away. I mean, they lost their cornerback, Nashon Wright to the Jets. They signed Dredrick Wills today, the offensive tackle, somebody the Lions had met with. So I don't know necessarily that the Bears got better. But I think that they moved kind of laterally. They're still about where they were before. They've done a nice job of plugging up those holes as soon as they're coming up.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think DJ Moore losing him. I think that that's, that's significant. I mean, I know that they have pretty good wide receiver room, but DJ Moore was just a weapon that you had to account for on the field. And I know that he took plays off and I don't know if I necessarily want him in my wide receiver core. But I, he was a guy that he was so big that you, you could throw a little screen out and he could get, you know, seven, eight yards just by running over people. I, I'm. I'm glad that he's not on the team. Although I didn't like that it opened up. don't like that they got a second round form, which I thought was high for the contract that he had. So I didn't like seeing that from a standpoint of competition standpoint. All right. Packers. ⁓ that was a no.

Jacob Litton: I thought that was a great move. like, I know we had differing opinions about DJ Moore, but I don't, I mean, they obviously they drafted Roma Dunze, they have looted their burden. It was definitely, I thought it was definitely time to move on for DJ Moore. A second round pick is insanity. I don't, I don't get that at all. Great job by the Bears for being able to swindle that out. ⁓ know, ⁓ you know, I don't think that he's going to have very much success in Buffalo either.

Jason Harwood: I agree. Mm-hmm. I don't know about that. I'm glad that he's not on the Bears, but yes, getting a second round pick pissed me off because that was like really good. would with his contract. thought he might get a third or fourth round. I like a fourth round being high and then they get a second round. was like, ⁓ my God. But the

Jacob Litton: He had 50 catches, 682 yards, and six touchdowns. That's where the second round pick.

Jason Harwood: Yeah, I know. I know. But the bills need, you know, that, you know,

Jacob Litton: And he was top 10 in passing. Total snaps during passing plays, was top 10 in the league. And that equates to 50 catches.

Jason Harwood: Okay. know, ⁓ you got Caleb Williams thrown out there he's the only 50 % completion percentage so he's on ⁓ whatever. ⁓ right, let's move on to the Packers here The big thing that they traded for is that your Franklin, however, they lost for Sean Gary Did that trade officially go through? I didn't see that like I know that they agreed upon it because

Jacob Litton: Remember Caleb Williams is supposed to be the truth. He's the Iceman. Ask Chicago. I don't know today if that was like official. I haven't heard anything, you know, now that you can back out of trades.

Jason Harwood: I could, yeah, exactly. Now that you could just say jokes. ⁓ Elder Jackins they lost to the Browns. Romeo Dobbs, which I'm so glad him and his guardian cap are out of the green Bay. They're the Patriots, which the Patriots pay way too much for Dobbs. Unbelievable. Yeah. Quay Walker goes to the Raiders. Malik Wallace went to the Dolphins and then they traded. ⁓

Jacob Litton: Yeah. Another one I don't get. Yeah.

Jason Harwood: ⁓ A pretty good defensive tackle Colby Wood for Zaire Franklin, a young defensive tackle. did replace that defensive tackle possibly with Javon Hardgrave today. was really the, you know, that's who they added today. I think Gray Bay's worse now than they were going in, you know, than when before free agency started.

Jacob Litton: What player on that list, which one do you think is the biggest? For you to say that they got worse, which one is the biggest loss that they had?

Jason Harwood: Man well, Roshan Gary is not The player that everyone thinks but the fact that Malik will s is out. I think Roshan Gary is gonna be a huge deal. I think I Think Romeo Dobbs actually it could especially with Tucker Kraft not possibly come back Romeo Dobbs like the safety blanket for Jordan love and now he's not gonna be there You're gonna really hope those other guys ⁓ golden and ⁓ what what's the other christian rodriguez right you're hoping that he watson christian watson sorry ⁓ is ⁓ you know gonna step up what's your i mean do you want to say malik willis is that what you wanted to say

Jacob Litton: Christian Watson. Yeah. I mean, being a backup quarterback, I do think that that's a considerable loss because they've had to rely on him the last couple of years for at least a couple of starts for Jordan Love. And every single time, it's like they don't miss a beat without him. Malik Willis, different kind of, know, made a little more dynamic run game or whatever you want to say, but they do not drop off that much when Malik was playing quarterback. And now you don't have that safety net there. I don't even know who else is on their roster, but you know.

Jason Harwood: Yes. ⁓ Right.

Jacob Litton: Quaywalker, not a gigantic loss. They probably got better by getting Zaire Franklin, but Romeo Dobbs, they didn't use him enough, but he was solid when he was out there. Elton Jenkins, good offensive lineman. Rashawn Gary, like you already said, Micah Parsons is out. So I mean, you got rid of your other edge guy. That seems weird. Yeah. And I mean, they re-signed one of their offensive linemen, Sean Ryan. They signed Sky Moore, the Chiefs and 49ers guy. That's hardly anything at all. Returner. So. Yeah, I don't think the Packers have been doing so hot in frequency either.

Jason Harwood: Nope. right. Minnesota Vikings, another team that had to cut a ton of salary. We thought they were going to lose Aaron Jones, but he resigned, right? So he basically just took a big pay cut. It was a little guy that I had circled like as a possible Dave Montgomery replacement. They get, get to keep him. You know, they had some re-signings. you know, they lost Ryan Kelly, who was their big, one of their big signings last year center retired because of They lost Jonathan Allen. They lost Javon Hargrave. They released Harrison Smith today. That may be procedural. He may be back, know, 15 years in the league. Big. They lost Jalen Naylor. And then, you know, there's rumors of them, you know, being number one on the list for Kyler Murray. But that, as far as I know, he has not signed yet. ⁓ So that could... Izzy. Okay. Yeah. They, you know...

Jacob Litton: I think he's visiting with them tomorrow.

Jason Harwood: that might end up being, if you're JJ McCarthy, that sucks that they're gonna bring in Kyler Murray. Man, that's just the writing on the wall. means you're done, I think, if you bring in Kyler Murray.

Jacob Litton: I mean, the thing is, if they bring in Kyler Murray, wherever Kyler goes, he's gonna be on a minimum contract. He's already getting paid from Arizona. So I mean, do they bring in Kyler and guarantee him a starting spot? Or do they say, we're gonna be in a competition, you're a veteran presence for JJ? He's not a very good veteran presence if you're trying to help JJ for sure. Yeah, I mean, the Vikings, the GM really botched the team, but they really botched this JJ McCarthy situation as well. I don't know.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Jacob Litton: Basically last year was his rookie year, right? He was hurt the entire last year before that. He's trying to make something out of nothing. the Vikings entire team just did not play very well at all last year. Excepted games against us coincidentally. ⁓ Yeah, right. ⁓ will be painful forever. ⁓ Never be able to look back on that. But anyway, I just don't. I don't think Kyler.

Jason Harwood: I agree. But yeah, they swept us. So yeah, exactly. Yes.

Jacob Litton: makes that team that much better. I'm not worried. I'm not like, man, they've got Kyler Murray. Now they're going to be competitive right away again. Not at all. And I mean, you've seen when JJ McCarthy got hurt and when he was out, they had Carson Wentz and they were just getting wrecked even worse without him out there. You can't put that on the quarterback.

Jason Harwood: Yep. Yeah. I, JJ just kept getting injured and that's just not, I mean, I, yeah, they, they're, they were in bad shape. The offensive line that they signed, they paid a lot of money and the offensive line was, it was pure garbage for them last year. Yeah. That we, know, yeah.

Jacob Litton: Right. And they're trying to make something out of nothing the whole time. The defense was keeping them in games. The offense could not move. The ball could not do anything at all.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. And now, you know, they're losing some of their defensive pieces. We'll see, you know, how, how that's gonna, how that's going to work out for them next year. ⁓ hopefully not well, but as a whole, you know, I don't think anybody in the division. Like, mean, I think the lions are not as good, but you know, roster as it sits right now is not as good as it was last year. I don't, the bears are probably the closest, but the rest, everybody else is. has been downgraded. and that doesn't surprise me because everyone else in the division spent a lot of money in free agency last year. And I don't know what these teams are going to do, especially in Minnesota. Like after next year, you know, they're going to lose their rookie contract. Caleb's going to have to sign an extension. You know, going to be in a lot of trouble, salary cap wise. They're going to have to cut. They're going to have to cut pieces. ⁓ that's one thing where I could appreciate about Brad Holmes is that You know, we're not having to have these mass wholesale cuts. We are losing people and that does suck, but we're not signing big contracts in the cutting of next year. ⁓ so I, I, I'm okay with that, I guess, from that standpoint. One thing I want to talk about before we leave is the Max Crosby thing. Let's talk about that. I saw that, I thought that that was a parody tweet last yesterday. I didn't think that that was real. And then I realized it was coming from the actual Adam Schefter that, you know, the

Jacob Litton: Yes.

Jason Harwood: And the Raiders tweeted it out. The Baltimore Ravens have backed out of their deal. Like, ⁓ my gosh. It blew my mind that that happened.

Jacob Litton: And then today the Raven sign Trey Hendrickson. ⁓ Terrible look for them. This is one of those, like I said, I was at work I had to close. I could not look at my phone for like the last like, you know, two, three hours of the night. So anything after five o'clock, like I don't know anything. So I get out of work and I've got like 80 notifications. And then one of those from you, I don't remember exactly what it said, but it said something about Max or like.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. that Matt? Yeah I can't remember exactly what it Well I said you like four I think I was like rock is back and then you know every text was just getting crazier but yeah I can't remember exactly what I wrote. Let me let me go back and look at that because so

Jacob Litton: ⁓ it said Max is back. Rock is back. Bridgewater back to Max is back in the fold. But the most recent one was Max is back in the fold. Nice. What the hell? is it? What's going on? So why is this stuff happening? Why minute work?

Jason Harwood: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, it blew. Yeah, it it's a it blew my mind. I could not believe it. And it's I don't did you see Eric DeCosta? I didn't watch the GM, but I think but he's like, you know, basic like I had a responsibility to my team and he's like, and actually we were thinking of putting Trey Henderson and Max Crosby together. Did you see that? Like how in the heck are you gonna afford both of those? There's just no way.

Jacob Litton: Well, from what he from what he said is that after Linderbaum left, they thought that they could get both of them. That's what I heard. And, you know, obviously he has to get up there and say, you know, how gutted and how defeated he was that they had to back out of the deal. And, you know, he pictured having both of them there and everything because you can't come up there and be like, well, you know what? We kind of had second thoughts or, you know, we saw that we could get Hendrix in for less money and keep our first round picks. So we really want to back out.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Litton: There's all kinds of nasty rumors going around like teams don't want to do business with the Ravens anymore. know, everybody's angry. Everyone feels that they backed out. Who knows? I mean, the Raiders had doctors, you know, look at him. They determined that he was going to be healthy. Good to go before the season started. You'll never hear from the Ravens doctors and what they thought, but they just thought his knee wasn't healthy enough or they didn't feel confident enough.

Jason Harwood: Yeah, I mean, you knew that entry was there. just find it, it's Byers or Morth 100%. You're not going to be able to convince me otherwise. I don't care. That's just what I'm going to believe. There's other way. And so they ended up getting, like you said, Hendrickson. If I them next to each other, do I rather have Max or Hendrickson? Max is who I'd rather have. But would I rather...

Jacob Litton: Just crazy.

Jason Harwood: pay more for Max and give up two first round picks or have Trey Hendrickson. Probably the Trey Hendrickson thing worked out way better for them. Now I've given up two first round picks, but if you're the Raiders. Oh my God. Like all of a sudden you've already offered out all these contracts, right? And then thinking that you had cleared like what? 35 million, 40 million off the books. now all of a sudden, Nope, you still got Max on there. Uh. They somehow still made it work though, right? They still made it under the cap. They still have Max. My fear yesterday was that they were going to have to rush and make a deal before four o'clock today. But a good thing for the Raiders that they didn't because they would have got far less than ⁓ was originally planned.

Jacob Litton: right. But I mean, if you're the Raiders, you're actually like, okay, you know what, this is not the worst situation because based on how free agency played out, like they got Linderbaum, they know they're going to draft Mendoza. They got, you know, the centers, their quarterback, they got Quidipay on the edge. They got Quay Walker and N'Kobe Dean, the linebackers. They got a cornerback too. They made a lot of moves in free agency.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm.

Jacob Litton: So if the fact they were able to work out and restructure, do whatever and have Max on paper, like this team got a lot better. But is Max still unhappy? Does Max still want to move on? How do you do that? And if you're Max Crosby, you made the post, like, you know, thanking Raiders for everything, thanking the fans, and you're ready to move on and start this next chapter. And now you're right back in Las Vegas. That's weird. Is he unhappy? Is he still like, no, I want out, find another deal. That's still possible. It just seems really weird to me to like, you know, feel like you've moved on. He probably emotionally prepared to move on for so long now. Finally happened. You're finally ready to go. You're excited about Baltimore. And then that's kind of ripped away. And now you're still in limbo. They said he's back rehabbing at the Raiders facility. What kind of like weird ass situation is that for you and for everybody?

Jason Harwood: ⁓ exactly. Like that, that blows my mind. ⁓ and from a fan perspective, can you imagine had he been traded to lions, like the fans getting all jacked up, we're going to get Max Crosby. And then, then we say, We don't, we don't want him back or we don't, you know, we decided not to do it. I was thinking about the Jared golf trade because like, you know, this was like the jerk off Matt Sanford thing was agreed upon in the, ⁓ you know, before the league gear started. So, you know, they, You know, it was that awkward period where like Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes couldn't talk about Jared Goff because technically he was, you know, we knew he was coming to Lions, but technically he was still a Rams player. So they couldn't really comment on another team's player. But how weird would that have been? Like the, you know, the day before that trade supposed to happen. Sorry, Matt, you know, Matt Safford's still your quarterback. And, you know, we're calling all this off because we had, you know, we didn't want to give up two first round picks for Matt Safford. Like that, that's crazy.

Jacob Litton: I cannot even imagine. I don't know how passionate they are over there in Baltimore, but Lions fans would be my God.

Jason Harwood: Oh, yeah. I mean, they did get a nice consolation prize today though. Like if you're a fan, at least you got Trey Hendrickson. Cause like the way it fell down, the way they did it, it's like the Ravens probably didn't, weren't going to sign anybody and you know, sign anybody because of what, you know, they got max that was, that was their, that was their free agent spending. And so they didn't get in any of the contracts. They're just lucky that Trey was still

Jacob Litton: Right.

Jason Harwood: out there like for that to happen and Trey Hendrickson had to be so happy when that trade got cancelled because he's like that just opened up the market for me.

Jacob Litton: Yeah, right. I know, so Jalen Phillips signed for like 30 million a year. So that was the rumor. I think that Hendrickson was asking for 30 and then he ends up signing for a little bit less than 30. So don't know if that's cause he wanted to go to Baltimore or, you know, they, they were the first team that called and offered him that much money. Maybe. I don't know.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. don't think Jalen Phillips, ⁓ so glad the Lions weren't a player at 30 million a year. Would you have given Jalen Phillips 30 million a year?

Jacob Litton: No, no, I said before, I don't understand that. He was okay. It's not, he was okay, but he was not great in Philadelphia. I don't see what other people saw about that and willing to do that. I mean, and honestly, it kind of feels like, well, now he got the bag in Carolina and he's going to be smooth sailing from here. Do you really think he's going to be getting, you know, 10, 15 sacks next year? I don't think so.

Jason Harwood: Right. I don't get, that deal just blew my mind. Achilles ACL and then you get eight sacks after that and all of a sudden you're getting 30 million a year. That's the first week of free agency. That's the kind of crap. I mean, I don't want to be like that. I know that people around here want to get, you want to sign, you want to get the new prize, but that's exactly the opposite of what I want. I'd be...

Jacob Litton: and he's got the injury history. So what do you, you know?

Jason Harwood: really afraid of that contract being really bad, really fast.

Jacob Litton: Real quick before we, I know we're probably not going to go on anything else, but just while we're talking about the edge and everything like that, obviously there's been a lot of movement. A lot of them have signed not too many groundbreaking contracts though. I know we talked about quiddy pay as a possibility. He got 16 million a year. Bradley Chubb 14.5. ⁓ Arden Key, I mentioned him, he got 10 million a year. Chase on went to Washington for 11 million. you know, who was it?

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.

Jacob Litton: Tyra's wheat left us for 1.7, but I mean, cam Thomas three, Dominic Robinson, four, Omena who seven. Those are all like doable numbers for edge defenders. And you know, we, don't have one right now. And the ones that are out there, Hassan Reddick, Joey Bosa, Danico Autry, Leonard Floyd, Mike Dana, all presumably going to be expecting to get more money like that. So I know I already asked the question, but I mean,

Jason Harwood: Yes.

Jacob Litton: One of those guys has already signed. Would you rather sign somebody like that and be able to get them between five and 10? Or do you want to hold out and end up paying BOSA 15 million a year?

Jason Harwood: I don't think Bosa is who we want. What about AQM? I mean, he's still out there, right? He hasn't signed. Do you think the Lions are interested at all for signing him? you think he's in? I know. That's my concern is that they don't.

Jacob Litton: Right. Are you gonna sign him and then just not play him anymore? What are you gonna do there? They're projecting the AQM gets eight million a year. That's what his projection is at right now. And he made 1.4 last year.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Well, he's still out there. He's, still out there for a reason. If he, if a lot of teams wanted him, he'd be gone. Yeah. I don't know about that. You want to get it now because wife teams got money. but maybe.

Jacob Litton: He's probably in no rush to sign. No, yes, but I mean, if a team's calling you and offering you four million, I think you think that you're worth eight or closer to, know, or you see these guys signing bigger contracts that did not play as well as you did last year and don't have the numbers that you did last year.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. I think AQM also is going to fall into the fact that, you know, he played opposite of Aiden. Uh, he's older, you know, he doesn't have a track record. do, you know, I, don't think teams are going to be lining up to give him a lot of money. But I, know, if you're AQM, do you come back to Alliance? could, well, I'm not going to, you know, when their scheme, I'm not going to get all the snaps that I should get. Like he, in his mind, he's like, you know what? I can get like 17 sacks if I played a majority of the snaps.

Jacob Litton: Right.

Jason Harwood: I mean, he may think that, I don't think that that is, I don't think that that's the way I, yeah.

Jacob Litton: Maybe not, there's one way to find out. I think similar to how David Montgomery felt where he feels like he's underutilized. He's a little bit older than David Montgomery also. He knows that the last payday is probably right now or fairly quickly here. So I think in his mind, he's already moved on. He's looking for something else. He's trying to, this might be a highest bidder kind of situation. And maybe if he's not willing, if the team's not willing to pay him seven, $8 million,

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jacob Litton: Maybe he comes back and the Lions pay him four. Give him little bit of a pay increase and he comes back. I wouldn't hate that, but like I just said, if we're not gonna give him those snaps anyway, then what's the point?

Jason Harwood: Do you? Exactly. mean, you mentioned Bossa. Would want to the money on that? I mean, I just don't think the Lions are going to do that. But I also don't think that he's necessarily a fit for what the Lions want over there.

Jacob Litton: No. No, I hate Joey Bosa. If he signs Joey, I don't mean it. no, I do not care for Joey Bosa and I don't want some... I think older. I don't want to pay somebody 13, 14 million that's not going to play those snaps and that's just going to be a rotational piece, you know, like the Von Miller stuff. I don't want to spend eight million on Von Miller if he's only going to be out there on third down. Cam Jordan is still out there. Cam Jordan's older. But I, right. That's what I said before. like the veteran stuff, the way he plays. think that would be a huge get if we could get Cam Jordan here.

Jason Harwood: That is the guy that I... Yeah. Yeah, I'm assuming he's got a connection with Dan Campbell too, right? Their time probably overlapped, In New Orleans. I would, yeah, because he's about, he 15 year bet or something like that? So yeah, of course their time overlapped. yeah. Yeah. So, and I think that he'd fit over there. All right.

Jacob Litton: Right. Yes. Yeah, 15 years. Cam Jordan's 36 years old.

Jason Harwood: Dan says something earlier and I wanted to ask you, what do you think about love it or keeping Tom Kennedy for our return game? Are you comfortable with that if that's where we go into the season?

Jacob Litton: I mean, Tom Kennedy did better returning than anybody else, right? And Tom Kennedy is now the longest tenured Detroit lion. So he's been on the team longer than anybody, albeit up and down. I know somebody pointed out on Twitter that Jack Fox got here the same year. Jack Fox got here a little bit after Tom Kennedy, but Jack Fox has been on the team the whole time. And Tom has been up and down, practice squad and this and that, you know.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. up and down.

Jacob Litton: That would be another like underwhelming thing. No, I don't think that that would be exciting or I don't think that should be the game plan.

Jason Harwood: I- Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't.

Jacob Litton: But love it, year two. We didn't see much out of him in year one. He didn't have a whole lot of snaps, a whole lot of playing time.

Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he started to like get, you know, put in active towards the end of the year, which when they start, you know, he's active early in the year and then he's inactive late. Like some of that might be circumstance, but also that concerns me a little bit. Like you're hoping that, you know, at some point he's earning some reps at return game or something like that. And that just never happened at any point.

Jacob Litton: Injuries and different things like that though probably made it necessary to make him a healthy and active but now no caliph You might you know, I'd be able to keep him in there

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah, first thing I told Preston about Khalif, Preston's my oldest, I told ⁓ about Khalif and his first, I was so proud of him. The first thing he said to me, goes, well, let's some more stats for Tesla. And I was like, okay, all right, this kid gets it. I love it. ⁓ taught this kid well, like he automatically thought to the next level, which I was so proud of. So, and happy about that. Like, you know, Tesla could be a return game. Like he is big. Like I, ⁓ I'm

Jacob Litton: Nice.

Jason Harwood: I don't know if he's got special teams in him and maybe he trained for that in the off season. Maybe they want to develop that, but he seems like a guy that could, you know, be on kickoff returning. He's huge. Like it would be nice.

Jacob Litton: Agreed. Maybe not so much on punt return, but the kickoff, definitely.

Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yes, exactly. So I do like hit at the opportunity, know, Cleaf's out of there. That just opens the door up for to have a good year. I'm really hoping he develops into that Josh Reynolds role and with more reliable hands. ⁓ Tesla be really, really dangerous next year. It could really, if we could open up and get him some, ⁓ the in space, I want to see some crossers. I know we do crossers with You know, JMo, I think that Tesla would be really dangerous in the open space too. he's huge too. It's going to take a lot to get him down.

Jacob Litton: Definitely a lot of possibilities. Just get the line that can block and give golf a of Couple of minutes, couple of seconds.

Jason Harwood: Just give him just a of minutes. With his legs, you're so bad on him. He's got to have two whole minutes to pass the ball. All right, I got you. ⁓

Jacob Litton: Yeah, I don't get it. He should be doing lunges and squats and doing all kinds of speed and agility stuff right now. I don't understand.

Jason Harwood: I know. You want? Yeah, I know. He's running at well, I know his baby's probably not running yet, but pretty soon he'll be running after his kid. And that's you. know how much work that is that.

Jacob Litton: I think he's chilling, he's relaxing. Him and Petsing probably talking about the offense and everything, but I don't golf is out there with the speed ladder right now. I'm begging him to be. ⁓

Jason Harwood: You think, yeah. No, I'm hoping that he's I what I want to see is those offseason pictures that I'm working with the wide receivers like him and Tesla working together because I really, really want that. want that because golf did start to trust Tesla in the second half of the season, especially late, like the last quarter of the season, you know, in that Pittsburgh game, he kept giving him shots. And I know he dropped one in the end zone that would have won the game. But earlier in that game, he caught one.

Jacob Litton: Yeah.

Jason Harwood: that he got smashed in the end zone and hung onto that for that touchdown. So I'm excited to see what this kid can bring. I know that we gave up a lot, but that's in the past now. He's on our team. just need, you know, I just want to see how, how he, how he does and how he develops. Cause he could be a really dangerous weapon in this offense.

Jacob Litton: Let's hope so.

Jason Harwood: All right, Jake. All right, Jacob. So maybe in the next week, we're going to have some new players to talk about. Hopefully, it won't be as exciting. I think the rest of this week has been so far. I don't know how it can be with the whole Max Grosby deal, but maybe, maybe Max comes to us tomorrow and then we have to do an emergency pod. I just, can't see if we didn't go for Trey. Like, I don't know if you saw the report, like we weren't even in the teams that like were in the list of it was like the Colts. I thought they were closest to bills, the Eagles. ⁓ those are the teams that were, you know, in our name wasn't even mentioned there. I mean, I can't imagine that you're thinking about giving up multiple draft picks for Max. If you're not even knocking on the door for Trey Hendrickson, cause you're paying the same amount.

Jacob Litton: Exactly. I think it's the money thing. They're trying to be really smart and trying to, you know, get the best value and everything. So it makes sense.

Jason Harwood: Yep. So, all right. Our chat room was great. We have more people in here than we've, you know, I don't know if we've ever had this many at the same time. So except for when Eric Schilt was on. So thanks everybody in the chat. If we didn't get to mention you, I'm sorry about that. We were trying to get through everything in here and it's almost an hour and a half. So we appreciate you guys. And we'll be back next Wednesday, I believe probably around 8.30 again. Hopefully we got a lot of good stuff to talk about. For Jacob, I'm Jason. Let's go Lions.