Jason Harwood: Welcome to Talking Grit coming to you live 5 30 in the afternoon. This is crazy with the daylight. We are not vampires. This is actually happening. we'll get some more people on our chat today. We are going to talk about the draft. Of course, I'm going to talk about some offense first. Next week, we got a special guest coming on. We're going to really focus on defense, do a couple of mock drafts next week. But today we're going to focus on the offense because there's some other stuff that we want to talk about the rag now stuff, the Decker stuff, we signed a new safety. We'll get to all that. and I'm going to be with, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but Jacob is in a current lawsuit with Kayla Williams. I know guys have heard of the Iceman stuff, but Jacob really thinks that he owns the Iceman because of all his freezing cold takes. So he is. ⁓ He's locked in on this lawsuit. So he's distracted, just forgive him because he's getting calls with his lawyers and stuff. But seriously though, Jacob, you're in a new space, man. Congratulations. Tell why you got a new space there and ⁓ what we expect? Jacob Litton: First off, how long did it take for you to come up with the Iceman joke and direct it at me? Jason Harwood: ⁓ man, I had that and I was waiting for it but when I saw that I said I want to use the Iceman joke. I'm just glad that it worked. Jacob Litton: Swing and miss no, I'm I'm in a different still same house, but I'm in my own office area Formerly known as the walk-in closet. It's a you know spacious area I've got kind of ⁓ you halfway down. I've got a little bit of a setup back here Gonna be working remote like Jason So maybe I'll have some more time to you know prepare and you know try to keep putting out good content for you guys because Jason's just been kind of slack and Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: all the time in the world and he's still just, you know, coming up with these lame Iceman jokes. Jason Harwood: Yep. all the time in the world. Yeah, I know. That's what I spent my whole time at. Spent all day in my remote job coming up with that joke. ⁓ I was so, no, it's cool, man. You got that. It was neat seeing you had that space. ⁓ like it. You know, it's got the bad boys. ⁓ We see the bad boys hat over there in the corner. It's pretty sweet, man. Jacob Litton: You were so proud of it too. Yeah, right. I'm digging it. Jason Harwood: So also want to tell you that our listeners now is that we might have some special things now that Jacob's got a remote, we might be able to do a morning show now too. So I think we're still going to keep the weekly evening show going because that's just how we do things, but we'll be able to quicker to react things. So maybe during draft week, maybe we'll be able to do ⁓ quick reaction show in the morning. Kind of got to see what Jacob's schedule is going to be like, how that job's gonna line up for him but it is exciting because I think there's gonna be more opportunities for us to stuff together and collaborate. Before go too far, is saying hi the chat. So what's up Ash? ⁓ Yeah, he says normal. Yeah. Jacob Litton: thought of him right away with the 530 thing. was like, ⁓ man, Ash could get on and it won't be three in the morning over there. Jason Harwood: That's right. I know he's always listed to us on Spotify the next day, because unless he's on with us, you know, just because of how, you know, screwed up that's, you know, time differences. But all right, man, let's get into this lion's talk. We're going to start with we're sort of a draft talk. And what we're going to do is go position by position. You know, I think a lot of us expect this draft to be defensive focused or the interesting picks be on the defensive side outside of the first round. with offensive tackle or second round, depending on how that flips. every, you know, the skill positions are going to be interesting. Do we have a need there? Maybe not an immediate need, but there could be a long-term need on that. So we're going to question each other on what, like, do you think we're going to draft this position? When do you think it's going to be there? And I don't know about Jacob, but I have, I have a couple of thoughts on each position ⁓ players I do or don't want, and we'll go from there. So, ⁓ we're going to start with QB, probably not. Um, a very interesting, uh, position as far as the lions concerned, unless they drafted one real early, then, then it becomes super interesting, but I just don't see that happening. So do you think we even draft a quarterback, uh, this year, Jacob? Jacob Litton: too. I do not think that we draft a quarterback this year. I think the most likely route is that we some guys that we like ⁓ go ⁓ free agent practice squad route. Do you think we draft a quarterback? Jason Harwood: Yep. And no, and I don't think that we do. And I think you're right. It's going to be, I wouldn't be surprised to see it on draft or quarterback. Now say there's someone that we like that's undrafted. We, you know, I, we, could see them doing seventh round just to like not, you know, say it's someone they really like and they don't want to risk the undrafted free agent. could see a seventh rounder being used on one just so that they have to come to camp with us. But, I don't really see that being, that being an option for the Lions. Jacob Litton: Do you think they would have a quarterback that they love that they would really want to like take a pick on the seventh round though? I mean, who is like a can't miss guy in round seven where we would feel like, you know, some sort of way if we missed out on getting him in camp at quarterback anyway, you're right. Jason Harwood: ⁓ Yeah, I don't see any I don't see anybody. But I could tell you who I do not want them to take. That's all I have is one, do not take Kersenbeck. I don't want, I don't think we would draft him. I just can't stand the kid. So that's my own personal belief. Just, he always would blow it ⁓ every that I watched him and I just didn't like his demeanor. didn't like anything about Kersenbeck, but is there anybody that you... Jacob Litton: Nah. Maybe you know, maybe if he's there in round six seven or if he goes undrafted, maybe that's somebody, you know, high high potential that you bring in and see but overall I'm not a fan of Carson Beck either as it is right now the only player that I found that we had any sort of like meeting with is Cole Payton out of North Dakota State and that's a guy that is he's a dual threat quarterback that is drawing comparisons to Taysom Hill Which would be very weird for us to use a draft pick on somebody like that Jason Harwood: He he. Yeah. Jacob Litton: But if somebody, know, hey, if we're meeting with them, maybe we like the upside. Maybe that's somebody we get in here as undrafted for agent and see what we can do with them. I just, ⁓ I don't see quarterback being addressed in the draft. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah, you meet someone like that, especially if they're big like Taysom Hill, are you thinking that, you know, position switch? Are you thinking of, you know, something like that? And then, you know, if you have someone of the unique skills of Taysom Hill, I mean, he wasn't ever like a quarterback threat where you're going to like hand the offense to him. But was he tricky enough that he could use them on some trick plays? I mean, most time you would see him, ⁓ Jacob Litton: Tight end, right? Jason Harwood: QB sneak, you know, I don't even know if it was a sneak because you kind of knew what was coming But he was so so big it was really effective. So You know, that's that's Yeah, that's ⁓ I quarterbacks pretty much I Unless we draft someone early. There's no big notes on me I do want to give a shout out to Tim Loomis is on there. Love you guys born in Michigan Michigan er, but transplanted to Illinois. It's trying to neutralize those Bears fans Jacob Litton: Everybody knows it's coming, right? Jason Harwood: Well, you if they build that stadium in Indiana, then they won't be the, you you won't even, you'll have to move to Indiana to neutralize them. All man. Let's move to running back. I really think that this is an interesting position for the Lions. You might not think there's a need there and there might not be so much this year, but I think going in the future there is. So if we're drafting ahead, I, there's a couple of interesting prospects I have here. So Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: I'm going to say that they're going to draft or running back this year. I'd be pretty surprised if they don't. about you, Jacob? Jacob Litton: I think if I'm betting like yes or no with running back, this was the hardest one for me to like think about, but I also said no, that we don't draft a running back, but I do have somebody I have my eye on too. And it does make sense to draft a running back in like rounds four through seven. Pacheco is only on a one year deal, right? So we need to find somebody, you know, with a higher upside than him possibly too, that could potentially play right away or play in the future. So we have six running backs on the roster right now. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: Only probably three of them, right? I would say Gibbs, Pacheco and Valky are the only ones that are like definite safe. You would hope that Valky is a definite safe. You know, don't see them pulling the plug on that already. But the other running backs, Jacob, sailors, Kai, Robichaud, Jabari, Small, none of those guys are guaranteed spots. And there could even be undrafted free agents that come in and take one of those spots from them too. But who, you know, I've got one guy, but you know, you said you've got a couple guys. Yeah, let's hear it. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yes. I got, I got three guys, three guys. ⁓ my first guy is Nick Singleton out of Penn State. ⁓ is that your guy? Okay. All right. So the thing that I like about him is that he shows patience in the backfield, which reminds me of Dave Montgomery. I like that got good size. Can't catch the ball out of the backfield. I mean, I know we got Jameer, but it's nice when you have this guy, another guy, was nice that Dave Montgomery could catch out of the backfield. Jacob Litton: That's my guy. So agreed. Agreed there. Jason Harwood: I just look at him as a good replacement, a one-to-one replacement on that. He doesn't have like top, top end speed where he's going to be running away from guys, but he's got enough speed to hit the hole in an effective manner. So what did you like about Nick? Jacob Litton: ⁓ so just from the jump like if we're talking about like into the position he can return kicks. So I think he's a better version of Jacob sailors. He can return the kicks ⁓ more explosive The downside I think for us is that I think he showed really well at the combine and the pro day that you know His size his speed his explosiveness He projected to be a day three pick now. Maybe that's creeping a little bit higher Maybe he's not there when we're looking, you know in rounds four through seven Jason Harwood: Okay. Jacob Litton: But he's the one who I had my eye on as well. 6 foot 2 19. He's more similar to Montgomery size than the Gibbs. And I think he compliments Gibbs really well and kind of gives us that one to punch. So if we draft a running back, that's why I my sights set on is Nick Singleton. He was also like one of the top recruits coming out. He played four years at Penn State, right? I think he's a senior. So I mean, he's got tons of experience. I really like that one. That's the only one that I had my. Eye on though. You said you got a couple more Are these also day three picks or these guys we'd have to take earlier? Jason Harwood: I got a couple more, so. The later ones next to our definitely day three picks next Singleton's a guy that yeah, you're probably I I think he's a day two pick. So either we're trading up to get him in the third round. I'd be really hesitant to use our second round pick on him. I don't think I would want to spend that capital, but that's just the way you know. Jacob Litton: He's one of those guys like the metrics are all there like, you know, if you're looking at his measurements, if you're looking how he's tested, it's all there. But if you look how the last couple of seasons that went for him at Penn State, you know, where he's had like all the opportunities to run, he doesn't really break off that many for him being as fast and explosive as he is. He doesn't break off as many runs as you'd think that he would. But I think that also, you know, what he's shown on tape might be why he's a day three pick. I think round three or four for him. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Okay, well, we've got two fourth round picks. So if he slips that far, then he's definitely, you know, an option for us. The two later round guys I have that I just find interesting is Adam Randall. He's a from Clemson. He was a wide receiver that converted running back. He is going to be like one of those projects, but he is built. He's, he's pretty big. I think that he would be good as a possible returner. He is just someone that's late. I just think that he, you know, he might slip in the draft and he doesn't have a lot of mileage on the, on his tire. So I think that he's interesting. The next guy is a very long shot just because of his history. And that's Seth McGowan from Kentucky. Great power back. can catch out of the backfield. However, he's had some off the field issues. had a felony robbery charge, but that was like three or four years ago. So maybe he started his life around, but Lions tend to not go with with guys of checker past like that, I could, I'd be interested in him. Jacob Litton: I like the shots out to the Kentucky guy. ⁓ I don't see the Lions rolling the dice on him. first guy that you name Randall, he's a really big, don't, did you say how big he is? He's a big back, right? Jason Harwood: Yeah. He's six foot, he's six foot one. I don't know his weight, but I know he's six one. So he is, he's big. But also would you talk about maybe someone with some return skills? You know, the Lions like big, bigger people and returning kicks. So that's where someone you could maybe use him right away. I know we got Dorch and, but we only signed Dorch for one year. So you know, you can't, and Dorch is small, right? And, but he's still has shown the ability to return kick. I Jacob Litton: ⁓ okay. Right. and Dorcha Small. Jason Harwood: I just thought he's not your long-term that you're gonna use there. All right, Jacob, what, let's on to wide receiver. Don't see an immediate need for wide receiver. So do you think we even go with a wide receiver this year? I definitely think you're going to get some undrafted free agents, but do you think we draft one? Jacob Litton: Also said no for receiver. So I mean quarterback running back wide receiver if I'm betting on these I still said no for all three ⁓ You know, I think so running back if you like someone I think you take a shot at running back wide receiver with where the room is and where you like who we have right now You would have to absolutely love somebody like can't miss and they'd have to be there in like round six or seven Right, like can you imagine them drafting? We don't have around three. Can you imagine going like round two receiver again? Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Jacob Litton: ⁓ Like just there's way too many other spots that we need we also There's four probably locks on the roster. There could be five depending on where you feel about love it who was a draft pick last year I Just don't see us drafting a receiver in here Jason Harwood: Yeah, know, Dorch is, I mean, he's only, we only signed for one year. So you're going to need someone, if you find someone that you think can replace him, you're going to do that. But then he can, he's taken up a roster spot, but you, if you're not love with love it, then he's off, you know, he's off and then you, got a draft pick in there. so let me ask you this. ⁓ they did draft a wide receiver, like what style of wide receiver would you want them to get? Like do you have someone that would fit on this roster? Like what would you be looking for? Jacob Litton: It's interesting. So let me just shout out the guy that I have on here. So we, had a top 30 visit with a wide receiver from Marshall to Marcus Lacey, who is not a very big receiver. He's a converted running back who plays exclusively in the slot. They use him a lot in the screen game and he scored very high on pro football focus when it came to screen passes and like passes just beyond the line of scrimmage, but he doesn't offer a whole lot, you know, downfield or anything else. So. That was surprising to me that they used a, you know, a visit they met with him. Cause that's somebody I think is like an undrafted free agent target. If I'm looking like, if we're drafting a receiver, I think I would prefer having like a big body downfield threat. Similar to like what we think we have with TISLAW. Jason Harwood: Okay. I, the guy I'm looking at, and I only have one guy on my list here, cause I don't know if we're going to go with wide receiver, or at least like, if we go, it's going to be seventh round or later. but if we, you know, go a little bit earlier, Barry Brown out of Kentucky, guys got elite speed, speedster, special teams do slot outside trick plays, you know, all, all the, all the stuff you wanted to do. Cause like you're looking for someone. Jacob Litton: Speedster. Jason Harwood: For me, you're looking for someone that could replace Dorch. Like you want a Yak guy, you want someone that adds something to your offense that you don't necessarily have. Now, JMo obviously has top end speed, but I want someone with special teams ability. And then you could still throw them in the offense. Kind of like what we do with Kalief, right? We don't know what we're going to do with Dorch, but you know, I want some guy with elite speed. I think that, you know, you just get a weapon and you... you you use him five to seven times a game you know, ⁓ the, know, he makes, you know, you just want him have a game break and play. I think ultimately if I were going to draft wide receiver, I want plus special team skills. mostly as a returner, could he develop into a part returner? I want those types of things. Cause like I said, Dorges is here one year. So, ⁓ Jacob Litton: Right. Barry and Brown is also small and he's fast. He left Kentucky for LSU and then I don't even know if he scored a touchdown for LSU last year. It seemed like he just got buried. But speed kills. Jason Harwood: Yeah, it happens. It happens when you're, when you go to LSD, when you're a wide receiver, right? Either shine or get outshined. But we'll see. The next position, I think that there's going to be, I think definitely going to draft here. I'm going to say before you even ask me the question, are we going to draft someone? We are going to draft a tight end. So what do you think? I think you're going to say yes to. Jacob Litton: Yeah. This is the first one. First one on the list that I said yes, we do draft a tight end. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: I still think that when we do, it's going to be in rounds like three through six though. Do you see round two tight end or do you also think middle of the draft trade into the third round? Cause we like somebody or, you know, get somebody later. Jason Harwood: Okay. Yeah, definitely. And I just don't want to give up too much capital, but it kind of also depends on Laporta, right? Like I just, you know, is he going to be back? you know, I think if we draft the right, if we could draft someone earlier and just as a replacement for Brock Wright too, like if we see someone that's, know, what we think they could grow into, I wouldn't be shocked. Like if we, if we draft once early, it scares me about Laporta. ⁓ but I, ⁓ I like Laporta and I want him on this team. but it could be also a cost savings moves if we draft early. But I just think that tight end position so deep that you could get a pretty good playmaker later on as opposed to spending plus capital. Who's the number one tight end this year? can't even remember. Names escaping me right now. Let get... Yeah. There was one that someone said the lines were very interesting, but if we went tight end first round, ⁓ my God, that... Jacob Litton: even have that in front of me because all my guys are later picks. Jason Harwood: I'd throw up. Yes, yes. Jacob Litton: ⁓ Kenyon, Kenyon Sadik from Oregon, Eli Stowers, Vanderbilt, Max Clair from Ohio State. Those are the top three. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. think it's, there's one top tight end and then the rest are going to, you know, probably slip to late first, get in second. But there's going to be some guys that you could get later on. I didn't really have anybody picked. I don't really have any idea ⁓ that later round pick, but you know, did you have anyone ⁓ ID'd for, you got three? Go ahead. Jacob Litton: got three, ⁓ but the three that I have are not necessarily just people that I've had my eyes on, but these are people who the Lions have met with at the Combine. So, you know, that's good start if they've met with them at the Combine. Doesn't tell the whole story, but so there's three that they met with. Joe Royer from Cincinnati, Tanner Koziel from Houston, and then Marlon Klein from Michigan. So I know you know Marlon Klein, maybe not the other two, but. Jason Harwood: All right, yeah, good, good, go ahead. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yep. Jacob Litton: All these guys are gonna be day three picks. I don't see any of them going higher than round four So these are guys if we like that are gonna be there later guy from Houston Koziel ⁓ a great receiver. Not a very good blocker Whereas Royer and Klein both better blockers. They don't have the stats that Koziel does as far as receiving goes The only one I've seen, you know close up is Marlon Klein just for Michigan I know that he showed the receiving threat and he showed that he can block He's also the guy that is from Germany, I believe. So I mean, he's still kind of newer to the game. That's somebody that would be an interesting pick in like round six, round seven that could potentially ⁓ in and play. I know you mentioned Laporta. The thing about Laporta and where it stands right now is he's not going to be ready to go until OTAs basically. So ⁓ mean, when this draft happens, you're not really going to know for sure what he looks like. Is he going to be able to go? Therefore, do you feel a pressing need? Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yep. Jacob Litton: based on how the offense looked without him, do you feel that need to go round two or to get somebody, you know, to help in the receiving game right away? And then do we use too tight in sets or what do we do? It's gotta be somebody that can block too. It's gotta be somebody that's effective in the running game. So if that's your only thing is that you're a good receiver, it's not gonna work here. Jason Harwood: That's the number one. No, it's not. You're not going to, no, you're not going to, especially in this draft, knowing that you have Laporta here, I don't see a receiver, prime, you know, that's their primary talent. You're going to have to be able to block. don't know. Like I, don't, I would, I think of the fourth round and after is when you could start seeing a tight end. I really do. I just, I would make me a little sick to my stomach if we go waste capital. third round, second round. know we don't have a third round pick, I trade up and use capital on that pick unless, unless someone really falls, but I just don't see that happening. Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: ⁓ and the other interesting thing is, you know, the whole Brock right? If we could cut him, know, depending on what happens to the strap, you could, that's a cost season saving moves that could have, if you get a good blocker, someone that you think that could come right in and take that spot, you could cut Brock right. And, know, save, think like three to 4 million off the cap, which maybe, you know, it may be worth to them, you know? Yeah. ⁓ Jacob Litton: would say that's likely if we get somebody in here, right? Jason Harwood: Yeah, don't know. I worried about our tight end room overall, to be honest with you, if Laporta can't go. I I like the addition of Tyler Conklin because I think he gives you like some of what Laporta can give you, you can receive. Brock Wright's obviously not going to give you any of that. He's there. I mean, he's good. There's a reason like once or twice a season, Brock Wright has those surprise touchdowns or surprise long. long catches because the defense forgets about them because we don't utilize him that much. ⁓ you know, and I think part of it was like, when Sam went down last year, you remember Brock, right, went down almost like the week after, which really hurt our running game just because, know, that really compounded the thing with Sam being out now Sam hurt us on third down, especially, you know, our third down receiving, but Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: for the run game, was really compounded with both Sam and Brock out there. I mean, that's why you said if we can get another blocking tight end, ⁓ think that that I'd be happy with that with some receiving skills. I would like to be able to have the ability that they have some receiving skills, but if that's their primary use, then I not, not about that. Jacob Litton: That's the problem with the replacements that we had last year, which I mean is expected when you pull tight ends like late in the season that are off the street is that most of them are not going to have those receiving skills and you hope they can pick up and block and just be an extra blocker out there. you know, they did okay, but we really suffered not having Laporta out there. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Well, also like our, our, you know, the depth in our offensive line was lacking. So it's not like you could pull like your swing tackle out there and just then become, you know, a blocky tight end. We were really lacking. Now, if we go out and draft someone and then we got Borum in there for swing tackle, then that, you know, that's I'm all about that. I mean, we could do some damage that way. Jacob Litton: Yeah Definitely. Jason Harwood: right, let's ⁓ over to the offensive line. We have quite the room right now. I ⁓ we've upgraded our depth. ⁓ need, depending on how comfortable you feel about Borum, ⁓ we get to use that first round or second round pick on a tackle. ⁓ think more interesting question to me, because I think it's a foregone conclusion for me that we're going to draft a tackle. What about inside? Do you think that we draft some... inside offensive lineman, either a center or guard. Jacob Litton: Interesting. I have obviously that we're going to draft offensive lineman, but that is, you know, where I'm thinking as well as do we get to do we get an outside and an inside guy? Because I think a tackle is definitely happening. Do we draft an inside guy that we like? You know, round four or five, six, you know, what do we do there? I mean, we're definitely younger on the inside, right? Caden Mays we have set up. We've got mahogany, Rattlage. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: juice, Scruggs now, Miles Frazier, those guys, you know, at the guard position. Do we add somebody else to the room? I don't think it's necessary to, but I think if obviously they're going to be scouting, they're going to be looking, they're trying to improve the best that they can. You also want that competition there. So I would not be surprised at all if we draft a guard or a center. Jason Harwood: Yeah. With our identity and we saw what happened last year when our offensive line was, you know, not up to our standard. We saw what happened, right? But I, when I look at our, you know, inside offensive line depth now, it depends on how you feel about mahogany. If you're not a mahogany guy, then you're probably thinking we need to draft someone on that left side. ⁓ I think Tate Rallich is going to be good. He was good last year. Yeah, I think he really grew into the position and I am expecting a big second year jump. KMaze, I personally think is going to be an upgrade at center. So I'm, I'm okay with that. Now is he top of the line? No, but you know, I think he's going to be definitely better than, than Graham. But you know, you got guys like Miles Frazier, what's he going to give you? We don't really know yet, but I know Jacob last year, you were really excited about him. And then Juice Strugs. We don't know what we got with him. ⁓ He's just like, ⁓ my God. ⁓ Yeah. I to mute you so the snoring come Juice Strugs out. They got him more lined up. They liked it. I've heard Dan say that they liked what he brought at center, which Michael Nese, that might hurt Michael Nese and he might be, you know, out of there. And then you then at that point, Jacob Litton: That's just my face when you talk, I'm just trying to stay awake. Jason Harwood: You know, you could, you'd have a spot for another guard in there, but I'm actually kind of okay with our guard. but I wouldn't mind them drafting someone late and then stash them on the practice squad, little development or depending on what they feel about Frazier, slash niece, there's still might be a spot, you know, ⁓ on roster for next So ⁓ I wouldn't surprised. Jacob Litton: Yeah, if they right if they find somebody that they like and they're there later in the draft I'm not gonna be surprised off they take them and there's no spots guaranteed For like miles Frazier was a later round pick if he doesn't have it. He's expendable Michael niece also could go I mean you look we've got a lot of offensive lineman in here. There's not a lot of spots guaranteed and You know, we're all about the open competition if we end up going pulling the trigger on somebody in round five, you know Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: Do we stash them? Do they plug and play? We don't know yet. They're gonna get a fair shake. Jason Harwood: Well, also, I forgot to mention Ben Barch too. We signed him now. He's had an injury history. He's shown some flashes. Now, if he makes it out unscathed and is not injured, that's another depth piece that you have there. So that's kind of interesting there. Now, the other option is that, you know, we draft someone that's a tackle, but also could kick inside a guard if they're not ready to start right away. So say you don't get them in the first round, you get our tackle in the second round. You're going to start boring, but you got a guy that, you know, eventually he's going to be tackled, but he might kick in at guard and why he's developing. ⁓ I had two players for the offensive line that I had tagged that might, we talked first round last time. So I didn't go look at any of the first round guys in there that our podcast last week still stands. If you haven't seen that, you know, go back and, you know, listen to that. you, know, who I, who I'd like in the first round, but Jennings Dunker is a guy that. is from Iowa, second round possible. know, he's got the second round. He is a right tackle, but he could kick inside to guard if you, you know, if you're not going to, you know, if we decide to go to different position, the first round, he's probably not going to come in right away and start a right tackle. Maybe. ⁓ I think Boram is going to start the year there, but then you might be able to kick him inside. He's just got a lion's attitude. that's why I think he's on there. Did you have, I have one more. Jacob Litton: He looks like somebody that would be next to Tate Rattledge on the line. ⁓ I did not put any offensive linemen. Yeah, right. I didn't put any offensive linemen just because we went to that so heavy with ⁓ the early round picks. Who else you got though? You said you got one more? Jason Harwood: Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. I like the name too. Okay. Yeah. I do. Yeah. think this is Tiernan out of Northwestern, who's the other guy that I saw left tackle, could kick inside the guard. He's someone that you would pick later on. He's going to be a day two pick, possibly early day three. So. Jacob Litton: ⁓ yeah yeah. Jason Harwood: we'll see how goes. ⁓ I'd still, yep. And personally want him to go in the first round and just get a guy that's just gonna step in right there and we got tackle taken care of. But if we go later on, those are the guys that I had earmarked. Jacob Litton: Tiernan is the one that's from Detroit, so there's connections there. I mean, if you look at the depth, because obviously most people are like, okay, it's going to be offensive line or it's going to be edge. If you look where the rooms are at with the offensive line versus where they're at with the edge, I think that's why people are leaning defense first round. Lions, though, are just going to whoever's highest on the draft board, they're going to take. Jason Harwood: Well, think the interesting thing is, so when you talk about, you know, tackle or edge, mean, those are like guys that, okay. You know, some of these guys you could think are going to slip into the second round, but generally out of edge and tackle, if you get a second round guy, it's like quarterback. Those are premium positions. You're, you're getting, you know, second tier guys, whereas, you know, you, you almost have to overpay in the draft to get those guys. Cause they're going to just go so early. ⁓ I think the Lions are in a great. spot at 17 to get to get a tackle that could come in and play. and an edge too, it's just depends on who they have higher on their board, in my opinion, cause they, they, they need to have, they need to have cheaper options at, at, at one of those spots. and we draft ⁓ a edge, ⁓ my God, people are flip out in this town. They'll be so happy that we got, we got our edge. ⁓ Jacob Litton: Right, right. Yeah. Jason Harwood: Let's see, Ash has been giving us bunch of drafts. Ash loves the draft and so he's very knowledgeable. He disagrees with me on Dunker. He doesn't like him. I know that Brett Whitefield likes him. I tell Eric Schlett does not like ⁓ Dunker. But Ash like He said he's going to go top 50. So that means we might have to move him up. ⁓ Jacob Litton: Ooh, top 50 for Tiernan. Jason Harwood: Yeah, that's what he says. So we'll see. I ⁓ Jacob Litton: That may depend on how the first round plays out and how many are left when round two starts. Jason Harwood: Yep, yep. But offensive lines, especially tackle depth, is just not that great in the league. those guys will get probably ahead of an rating on the board, just because it's a premium position. All right, man. So that's our offensive. I next week we're going to really go into depth in the defense. I have a lot more thoughts on defensive players and also ⁓ Uh, we're going to have Peter from the draft hub. He's going to be on going to run a couple of mocks for, for us. And, uh, we'll have tons of questions. So, uh, we're not done here. We're going to move on to some other topics, but hit us up with the draft stuff, eight 30 live next week. So, uh, we'll do be doing at least two mocks. Uh, that's, that's at least my plan right now. And so hit us up with that. All right, Jacob, anything else on the draft before we move on? Jacob Litton: Nope, let's go. Jason Harwood: All right, quickly, we're going to talk about, he signed a new safety Chuck Clark. last year he played for Pittsburgh. He was on the jets before that in Baltimore. previously he's got, he's had 80 career starts. So he's got tons of experience. I like this signing. ⁓ what about you, Jacob? Jacob Litton: Yeah, absolutely. Longtime Baltimore Raven. A ton of starts underneath this bell. A lot of starting experience, veteran presence. mean, I really like to pick up to somebody that adds a lot to the safety room and can help hold it down until branch gets back. So I'm absolutely cool with it. Jason Harwood: Yeah, I'm down with it too. He's a very good run defender. That's which is going to be a positive because that when branch went down, our run defense really, really took a step back. And so I like that. Now there are some issues with coverage with him. But, you know, this is a depth piece, we're going to get him in there. Now he might be pressing to starting duty early on depending on the branch and Kirby situation. Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: But I like that, you know, he's got experience back there. He's not going to be playing frightened. He's going to come in. He's tough in the run game. So I'm okay with assigning. I was happy to see it. I was happy to get some depth. has been released on his contract, but I'm assuming this is a vet minimum type deal. Jacob Litton: Probably, I mean he did have some starting experience last year but not a whole lot. can't imagine us, I mean based on how the off season is going, we're not breaking the bank for anybody. So I can't imagine it being a very big deal. Jason Harwood: Yeah, exactly. All right. The story that just won't stop providing new information. Taylor Decker, Justin Rogers went out and interviewed him. The story got released. Taylor Decker had some, you know, things that he's unhappy about. So I assume read the article or, you know, most of it, Jacob, do you have any thoughts on? you know, what Taylor said or how that portrayed in with the lions. Jacob Litton: I mean, honestly, it's kind of just come to light what everybody's kind of thought happened anyway, where didn't have too many conversations before he decided that he was gonna come back. Or he was not under the impression that when he came back, he wouldn't be welcome with open arms at his current rate. He didn't realize that him coming back was gonna be contingent on the pay cut. Exactly kind of how we thought it played out. I don't like that he said that there was not a whole lot of contact between them and that he mentioned that now that it's said and done and over with, he hasn't heard from the team at all. That part kind of rubs me the wrong way, especially to hear that Ben Johnson ⁓ out to him, Lions, in the Lions did. I still feel like he's probably extremely salty about the way that it played out. He's not happy about it. The fact that he did this interview and had, ⁓ Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: Justin Rogers come to his house and had this release like that. Just another, another bad look for the Lions. Jason Harwood: Yeah, I think this is more of a bad look for Taylor than it is the Lions to be honest with you. So it's really interesting when you read the article, he basically made it sound like he's saying that, you know, he let it know that he wasn't going to come back for, you know, less money. But then he also says at some point that money wasn't discussed by the Lions. I my feeling is that like he let them know like, hey, I'm not coming back for you know, less money in the Lions guy. Okay. But I don't think probably the Lions said, no, we're not going to ask you to take a pay cut. And then later on said, Hey, we need to take your pay cut. think they just took that information and said, okay, that's, know, that's what it is. What it is. He's not going to take a pay cut. And then they did their off season planning. And then all of a sudden they're like, you know, we, we're not going to be able to afford Taylor. Um, and you know, with, with his play now, if he's a plane at, you know, three years ago Taylor Decker they probably make that concession and they're like we're gonna make it you know alternative plans but if you're have a guy that's gonna be week to week whether he's gonna play playing at diminished returns 75 60 % of his optimal you know you're gonna have to make those concessions ⁓ hated the part of the article and said that Ben Johnson called I Justin Rodgers typically doesn't do that type of stuff but To me that was more sensational. had nothing to do with the rest of the story. And what has Ben Johnson got to lose by calling Taylor Decker? Nothing. And it's probably a feel opposite. Hey man, sorry that's happening. You know, we have a spot on our line for seven million. whatever. The Lions can't just do that. Taylor Decker asked for his release, which the Lions granted, and now you want them to call you and say, hey, how you doing? Jacob Litton: Right Jason Harwood: No, you asked for your release, It's like, and you know, the sort come out like two weeks after the release. Like what, no time has gone by. It's not like three years have went by and you're like, have no one's ever called me. It's like two weeks. They're going through free agent. got all this draft process. There's been no dead time. It's not, they're not sitting around. They get, ⁓ my God, you know, what if Taylor's mad at us? No, they, you asked for your release. You could have said, you know, you could, you could have. Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: did whatever, but you didn't, you asked to be released, you haven't been signed by anybody else, wondering if he could even pass a physical at this point. We've seen Max's fail his physical, could Taylor even, that's why he's not signing now. It blows my mind and I think that like, I saw some stuff people like, this, ⁓ lions look Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: I think it's the other way. I think it just shows that Taylor's salty. never been broken up with before by an NFL team. He doesn't know how that situation goes. But the Lions aren't going to spend time talking to you when they have other things that are going on. ⁓ just don't have time right now. Jacob Litton: Yeah, they asked Dan Campbell about it and I think he He was probably surprised the whole thing went out But you know he Dan Campbell's been a player too And he said, you know some of these when it comes to players or coaches is exact quote was I had a coach that we talked Every day he would send me messages. We would talk the minute I go to another team. I never heard from again It wasn't being vindictive, but it's also like well, you're not part of the team anymore. All my focus is on this Jason Harwood: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: So I think that probably like, you know, came out of left field. He also said like, yeah, you know, I'll call Decker. Not right now after this article came out, because he wants it to be real and wants it to be authentic. Which was probably always the plan. Like you said, you know, it's been a few, we did not let this go on forever. ⁓ Right. What do you want us just calling, begging you to come back? Or I don't understand. I also, don't think this is a great look by Taylor Decker. I think this is just another way for him to try to. ⁓ Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. I think if you call... Jacob Litton: you make the lions look bad or give one last little, you know, nudge before he goes on elsewhere. I still don't think there's no way he's going to get as much money as he was going to here. Jason Harwood: No, no, he's not. He's I just don't I think he's gonna end up retiring. I mean, he's he you know, it was probably just salty about the whole thing. He's upset that the Lions broke up with him and it just fell the way it is. He's also probably disappointed too. He wanted to win that Super Bowl. He's now he's realizing he's not going to get that feeling. You know, if the Lions do win the Super Bowl, he's not going to be on the team when they do that. And I'm sure that, you know, that's tough to take. you know, you, especially as close as the Lions got two years ago, you know, to feel, you know, and then, you know, the bad, you know, not make of the playoffs last year. That's not the way he wanted to end that thing. You know, he didn't want to end it that way. So he's probably fighting a lot of feelings out there. ⁓ but ⁓ don't know. I don't think the story came out in Taylor Decker's favor and not the way that Justin wrote it or anything like that. It's just what I'm reading between the lines. ⁓ I don't, just feel like ⁓ don't feel bad for him at all to be honest with you. Jacob Litton: And a lot of people wanted to move on from him, right? That was the move that a lot of people wanted to make. Jason Harwood: But yeah. Well, you got, know, Dan Keb also said that same interview, you know, you got $11 million. He signed three players for what, you know, for the money that they lost in Taylor Decker. So it's like, yeah, you know, the Lions, I don't think at the end point, the Lions were like, we need to get rid of Taylor Decker. He's a bad seed. It's just, you know, what, what is going to make this team better overall? Jacob Litton: Right, right. Jason Harwood: That's just the way it worked out. And I'm sure that, you know, that hurt, hurt his feelings. Now, another situation that I don't think makes Alliance look good is the Frank Ragnow situation. Dave Burkett asked Rod Wood about, you know, did they ask for some of the bonus money back from Frank? you know, came out that they did. So I'll let you, what do you think about that whole situation? Jacob Litton: Rod's retiring pretty soon, right? Like what are you doing by putting this information out there right now? Terrible look. This, you know, coincides with the Taylor Decker stuff, just making the team look bad. This one though, actually where we both, I guess, kind of feel the same way about the Taylor Decker things, that's Decker, you know, feeling hurt, feeling some way. You know, this was not Frank Ragnow that came out with this. This was Rod Wood offering up this information and. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: Then bringing up while you know, we held Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson the same standard. It's like, yes, Rod, we know we all remember the scrutiny that we took and, you know, alienating Calvin Johnson for how many years. It's just a terrible look. And I know they didn't put specific numbers on it, but the fact that it happened at all. get I mean, his quote, Rob Wood said, you know. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: The reality is they're not paying back their money. They're returning our money because they were paid in advance for services that they hadn't completed. Is that right? Yes, technically, right? I guess I suppose. But I know how much could you really get back that is affecting our numbers? How many are you talking about? Is it a million? Like, I mean, it was a six million bonus. You're not getting all that back. You're not getting half of that back. And it just doesn't matter the fact that you're asking for anything back at all when Frank did what Frank did. This isn't somebody that, you I think he Rod offered up, like, you know, if we paid Gibbs $20 million, he retires on Friday. You know, would we get that money back? It's not the same situation. I mean, this guy put his body on the line for how long and then he even offered to like he tried to come back last year. What are we doing? I hate it. I really, really hate that. Jason Harwood: Yes. I Yeah, I it's it just seems petty and stupid to me like why ask for like any of that back and the fact that you're going back Well, you know and saying well we asked Barry and Kelvin to do it doesn't does it mean you can't learn from your past mistakes like well Obviously that worked out terribly for us for a long time You know the Kelvin thing just dragged out forever And I get it. Okay. We are scratching for any pennies on the cap, right? It's obvious, right? We are not signing anyone for, you know, we signed one player this year for, you know, more than a one year deal. Everybody else has been that minimum or very close. So, you know, yeah, could we use that money in our cap? Yeah, we could. But is it worth the bad PR? Is it worth a player wondering, okay, You know, if I got to retire earlier, Mike, the Lions are going to ask for my money back. teams are not going to do not do this, especially to an all pro player. You know, it's ⁓ Dalman thing that's happening in Chicago is interesting. He's retiring early. I think they're going to ask for that money back, but he was with the team for one year and then decided to retire at 27. you know, I don't really, I mean, he hasn't really said why he's retiring, but it's not like he was. on injured reserve and you know, there there's some sort of injury risk. I you know, maybe there's a concussion issue. I don't know. But it's a totally different situation than this Frank Ragnos situation. And it's also a lot more money, a lot more bonus money, whereas you're, you know, talking, I think like it's up to 3 million that we can recoup and they Rod even said that we're not asking for all the money back. you're basically asking for a vet minimum contract at most to get back. Is that worth Alt is bad PR? In my opinion, no, it's not. Jacob Litton: No, it's not. agree. And then, you know, they offer or they asked him about it again. He was like, oh, I don't if I paid attention to the optics of how things sound or whatever, we wouldn't get much done and blah, blah, blah. It's just a bad look. More information that did not need to come out right now either. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, Frank didn't say anything about it. He probably was just going to be like, and who knows? I don't know if it bothers him or not. I'm sure it does to some extent, but it's not bothering him enough that he was going to display that. Dave Burkett asked him the question. Rod answered it. Whether he was prepared to answer it, I'm going to say, I'm going to beg the question that he wasn't. Just way he answered it and just how he tried to cover it up. ⁓ It it just... Along with him being all pro, like you said, I think he talked about like all the injuries that he tried to play through, you know, a fractured throat, you know, he tore his pack and he, you know, played like two weeks later that this guy was a beast at toe that's inoperable. I mean, he gave everything for you and played at a super high level. I just don't think this is the way you want to treat those type of players. Jacob Litton: I mean, he said he was ready to come back when he had a torn quad. He was like, give me a helmet, let's go. Jason Harwood: Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's just a bad look. of mentioned a little bit earlier, there's ⁓ Dan Campbell gave, you know, like a 30 minute interview at the team meetings down in Arizona. If you haven't listened to that, I do ⁓ you to listen to it because I think that there's a lot of tidbits that you could get from That I think that's good that, you know, sometimes it's just way he's talking. and his body language that I think you can get more out of it than just reading an article about what he actually said. So I do recommend listening to that. Was there anything in there or what was the most like when you think about that interview, Jacob, is there anything that jumped out to you that either surprised you or you like to hear? Jacob Litton: I know you have it highlighted about the joint practice thing. That was interesting because that's been kind of a staple is that we do the joint practice during the preseason. And now it sounds like we're not going to do the joint practice anymore, but maybe we do get to see some of our starters in the preseason, which is something that we talked about and that was heavily debated ⁓ to why they weren't playing in the preseason when most teams do that. So I think that was the first ⁓ noteworthy thing anyway. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: What were your thoughts on the joint practice? I know you like the joint practice thing. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. I love going to the joy practices. loved it. ⁓ going to be disappointed that when we go this year that it won't be to a joy practice. However, I get why he's saying these, he never said it was an injury thing. Like if you listen to that, he just said he's not getting as much done with it. My feeling after, especially after listening to Rod Wood was that I do that there are something to that. I do think that there are Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: the injury stuff played into that decision. But I also feel like Dan made the point, like we get an extra practice I'm wondering like early on, maybe it was that, we need to, you know, we need to up to competition in this, in this space. but last year we had the Texans come in and dolphins and the dolphins practice was, I mean, we just blew them out of the water. It wasn't even like close. Like what did we possibly get out of that? The Texas thing was closer, it, you know, just, I think that we could teach better situationally and there's less injury risk if we control a little bit more. So I'm okay. I'm okay with no joint practices. I think there's less to get out of them now than there was, ⁓ there was in the years past when people were fighting for starting jobs. ⁓ a lot of those things are already settled on this team. Less, I would say less starting jobs this year, subtle than last year, but. At the same time, a lot of things are locked in and we just need to be better than ourselves. I'm okay with it. Jacob Litton: Right. He said, you know, keep it about us. So we get to work, we set the schedule, hit everything that they want to hit. They don't have to rely on the other team for time and what the other team wants to touch on and do this and that. They're just getting extra practice just with us and doing it the way that they want to, seeing what they want to see. Jason Harwood: I am interested and I will like what they got will like is that I am assuming we're gonna see a lot of starters. I'm assuming that Jared golf is going to be in a preseason game this year. I'd be pretty shocked if he's not. And also I think the other advantage and I think you'll like this and this is for surprise you didn't say it earlier was that, you know, the offensive line is gonna be vastly new like and it's be nice to get them in a game situation. I don't care if it's even for a half or whatever, but just getting them. to play together in a game situation I think is going to be really useful. Jacob Litton: Absolutely. Any little hiccups that you have would happen in the preseason instead of in week one against the Packers. Jason Harwood: Exactly. You know, we saw what it was like, you know, like we're missing calls. We're running different plays like, you know, the offensive library to run different plays. And yes, I'd like to get that done. Now, is there an injury risk? Yes. But I think there's also an injury risk in those joint practices too. Obviously, we just talked about a little bit ago, whether once more than other. don't, you know, I don't know. But I do think there is something to playing under the lights, especially if you're a young player. Jacob Litton: Yeah, right. We don't need that. Jason Harwood: ⁓ those rookies just getting out there under the lights getting through game prep and I don't care what you could It's easier to simulate that stuff in a stadium under lights as opposed to on a practice field and You know, it's a little more nonchalant out there So ⁓ am excited about that plus For us like watching the game. I think it'll be a little more exciting seeing the starters out there, ⁓ Jacob Litton: Right, definitely. I wanted them to play in the preseason, get that a little bit last year. So I'm okay with getting rid of the joint practice and giving them some reps in the preseason. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. thing that I liked is they asked him about petzing and the stuff that he said about petzing being like super prepared him saying pets had come up saying telling him something he's like Dan saying I don't like that and then he had solutions already made up like okay we're not gonna do this we could do this and just everything that he said about him is everything that John Morton wasn't last year to me like just ⁓ like John Morton just wanted to go with the flow and just like keep things going. Petzing just seems like a guy that's like, is going to push the buttons, push this offense to a place that it hasn't, it couldn't reach last year. And I'm really excited about it. I got really fired up about the Petzing hire again, after hearing Dan talk about him. Jacob Litton: Right. He said like he adjusts, he's in the flow, nothing throws him off. you know, and adjust to whatever you want, whatever you need. And he's like, we're going to make it work. We're going to maximize it. And Moe maybe had too much to a fault of like, this is the plan. We're going to see the plan through without adapting or adjusting. Jason Harwood: and also Mm-hmm. Or maybe Johnny Mo didn't feel like, you know, he was walking in and it's like, this is already, you know, he said it before. He's like, I don't want to change everything. Everything's working. in the NFL, you can't do that. I mean, you obviously don't come in or just like tear it all the way down, start from scratch, but you have to be willing to like adapt and, know, evolve as an offense. And it obvious last year that, know, obviously Dan took the play calling sheet away from him. So, ⁓ you it just didn't work out. I will also say that he also mentioned that Petzig didn't have a lot to work with in Arizona, but he kept, you know, getting the best matchups that he could. And I do like that thought for the Lions, like, you know, where are mismatches? And a lot of them are going to be Gibbs, right? And, and setting up mismatches for JMo, getting, you know, getting him set up that he could get, you know, an open space. Like I, I'm, I'm jacked about the offense can do this year. Jacob Litton: Right? Jason Harwood: ⁓ the other quote that I liked that, ⁓ you know, Dan said it was like right off the first question. He was like, it's been a little bit of a rebirth. That's what he said at the beginning. And he said later on that he wants his players to have some of that saltiness that they had two or three years ago when they weren't respected. And that's the part about getting young players that are, you know, that have something to show for this, know, show. And that's what they want. ⁓ You know, I know we lost a meek and that would be a guy that I would think is super salty. We were going to need another guy to come in and provide that with the team. So I do, I, I liked that whole analogy with the saltiness that he said. Jacob Litton: Right. He said, you know, obviously everything starts with grit, but he did say that they felt like we just need to get younger in some areas. So unfortunately, that means, you know, ends lonely, Decker. Some of those guys are not here anymore. Get younger, get hungrier, I guess. I I thought it was interesting. He kind of snuck it in that, you know, when he was talking about the guys losing, he mentioned DJ Reader, right? And he said Reader still out there, so we'll see. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: So that makes it sound like maybe that's not completely off the table that, you know, if Reader is willing to come back at a discounted rate, they'd probably welcome him back. Jason Harwood: I think that they do want him back, but I think it's going to be two things. It's going to be probably not as many snaps. He might not be the starter anymore. That's probably like Ty Leakes, you know, if Ty Leakes not starting by year two, then that's a rough, rough first round pick. And no, exactly. And, you know, they probably have a price in mind for Reader and whether Reader is going to come back for that price. That's probably, you know, that's up for debate, but ⁓ Jacob Litton: what you want for your first round. Jason Harwood: We'll see, but yeah, the door's not closed on Raider for sure. Jacob Litton: Also, when they mentioned Wanham, know, when they're talking about the defense, the defensive reset and he mentioned Wanham, it's like, you know, do we draft somebody? Are we more of this four down? Do we become five down? Do we become more nickel dependent? He said we have flexibility and you know, him, Chep, they've sat down, they're ready to adapt. They're going to get, know, the best players they can get and that's what we're going to roll with. But they have the flexibility of doing different things and not just doing base. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. They have, he said, right. And he said with Shep, he's got like three different options, on how the rest of free agency goes and the draft goes. So it's like, they're already preparing for this ⁓ whether draft an edge high. He also said that Wanham could spell Aiden, which I thought was interesting because you know, ⁓ I Wanham would be on the opposite ⁓ of most of time, but it was interesting that he, he, he slipped that in there. And I think they have plans for Levi on the outside. mean, they did ask him out Levi and he said, as long as Levi is healthy, he's going to be out there. That's the big question is, you know, his health. they did ask him about TA. There wasn't really much there. I thought, you know, he kind of just said, you know, what you know is what I know. you know, he did talk about rock and that's ⁓ situation, but the other thing is him wanting to move Penne to left tackle. Like he said that that that's what he wants to do. Like, probably just depends on who they draft and the comfortability of, of that situation, but it sounds like he wants Penne ⁓ on Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: golf's blind side. he said the comfortability of knowing who's back there is going to make golf. he said, if pressure is going to come, at least you're going to be able to see it if it's on the right tackle. So I thought that that was interesting. Jacob Litton: Definitely he downplayed the whole like blindside thing a little bit, but I mean, he was acknowledging that he would like to have Fane on the left. He said it's a little bit like riding a bike. He gets his left, ⁓ his stance down just for a little bit and then he's good to go. Which I think we all feel that way, like Pane does such a good job on the right side. If you move into the left, I imagine he's going to do just as good, be a little bit of an adjustment period in training camp. But overall, it's not going to be something that you have to worry about him having some sort of drastic fall off by moving. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah, no, Pene is a dog. He's gonna it work either way. ⁓ does put a little bit of microscope on just the team in general, just because everyone's gonna be really watching him. And if he does give up pressure, it's gonna be like, ⁓ you know, we moved up, we screwed them all up. We had an all pro right tackle. Now we put him at left. And I even Tristan Wurst struggled a little bit when they switched him over ⁓ from tackle to left tackle. But now he's back up to his all pro level. And I think that Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: I'm not really worried about that. And Pineda has played left tackle like even Dan brought it up in the thing. When Taylor Decker was hurt Taylor Pineda has already played left tackle in the NFL. it's, and he played obviously in Oregon. So it's not like it's switching to a brand new position. He's been over there. It's, you know, he said what Dan say it's kind of like riding a bike for him. Jacob Litton: Right. My whole reasoning for wanting to not have to move him to the left is that that's just an extra person that you have to, you know. I'm all about the sink of the offensive line, everyone being together. If we are moving, like let's say, Ju Scruggs is gonna become a starter. You're gonna say Ratledge Mays. If Scruggs starts over Mahogany, you move Fane to one side and then you have a rookie starting on the other side. It's just gonna take some time to adapt for them to really mesh like as a unit. That was why I think it'd be easier if you have somebody that you could play on the left. I just don't see anybody that we would draft that's gonna be able to come right in on the left. And obviously, especially with Goff not being as mobile, need him to be comfortable in the pocket. You need somebody really good on the left side. And Panay, I think, is a very big upgrade over what Decker did last year. And if you get a rookie right tackle in there, mean, ⁓ might be what's best for the offensive line. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yes. 100%. And Ash says that maybe if Panay's over there, we could start running to the left side too. Cause we are big runs towards the right side. Now we could start running back to the left cause Panay would be back over there. I, yes, I'm, I am so looking forward to next year having a better offensive line. I really, it's going to make Gibbs look even better if he, Gibbs gets to the second level. He had trouble getting to the second level just because the holes weren't there. If we could start getting him to the second level, it's over because his speed is going to take off. really hoping this comes to fruition and we get a solid tackle. then our offensive line outside of Penesul becomes extremely cheap, which is good for resigning else. Jacob Litton: Right? Absolutely. Jason Harwood: Alright, I don't really have anything else to that Dan Campbell interview unless you do. Jacob Litton: Nope. I thought it was funny that, he, he said for the Germany trip, he was trying to get them to do a cruise ship back. He's we could game plan. He's like the hot tub, the pools, like they have all that we can do that. And then they brought it to his attention. It would take like eight days. Jason Harwood: Amen. was hilarious. Well, I also can you imagine how much food they would need for the offensive lineman alone on that cruise ship? Oh my God. Whew. Oh man, I've been on cruise ship. You could eat a lot, but man, those guys can eat way more than I can. All right. Before we take off here, Jacob, I want to, don't know if you saw this or not. This was on NFL network. They had a trade proposal for the Lions. The Lions would trade Sam Laporta and the 17th overall pick and a six rounder. Jacob Litton: Yeah, right, right. Jason Harwood: And what we would get in return is the seventh overall pick. So we move up 10 spots in the first round. We get another third rounder and we get tight end Benson at would you even entertain that trading Laporta like that? And just to move up 10 spots, you get third rounder too. Jacob Litton: We're losing Laporta and moving up, moving up 10 spots and getting a third rounder. No, I don't like the thought of not having Laporte on this team. Jason Harwood: Yeah, Laporta is that strong for you that I mean, I wouldn't move them up for these Ted spots in the third rounder. I wouldn't do it either. Is there any, I mean, if you got a flat first rounder for Laporta, say it's in the 20s the back end, you're not giving up anything. You're just getting a first rounder for Laporta. Would you do it? I don't think another team would. You would do it. Yeah, I probably would too, especially with the draft coming up. Jacob Litton: Yes. I think you'd have to with the injury and everything and the draft happening right now. I mean, if you're getting an extra first round pick out of it, I still like Laporta and I don't. mean, you'd have to hit on that pick. And you'd also then you'd be in the pressure to draft a tight end. Jason Harwood: Now, the thing I will... You would. I mean, you're getting one back here, but yeah, you're going to have to get a tight end. But this gets you up possibly to get, mean, it's seventh round. It's possible to get the tight end or the left tackle from Miami. Francis, how do I always want to say his name wrong? Malagoa. Yeah, no, that's right. Malagoa. I mean, that puts you in there. So you're getting the number one tackle as opposed to the third or fourth tackle. I mean... Jacob Litton: I think. I don't know. Are you so sure about him? being there and two, being the guy that you want that you pull that trigger though, because what do you do? You pull him up and then he is gone. What's the fall off between him and the next highest ranked tackle? Jason Harwood: Debbie, Debbie. Yeah. Well, I think. Yeah, and then you're getting Spencer for now or Monroe Freeling. then, yeah, it, no, it, falls on, this is a draft day trade. Number seven pick comes up and you say, Oh my God, he's, you know, it's there. Jacob Litton: Right. Who has number seven that they're wanting us to give? I didn't recognize the name that you said that we get in return, so I don't know what team that is, but... Jason Harwood: this was. Bensonot, it's the commanders. It's the commanders. Jacob Litton: Yeah, I don't know much about Ben's snot, so I don't know. I can't. Jason Harwood: I mean, he's not going to be Eddie. That's just replacing a tight end on your roster. He's obviously not, he's not, he's young guy, but he's not Sam Laporta. mean, there's only a few guys. Jacob Litton: Right. But in that scenario, you're moving up 10 picks and you're gaining a third round. I can't say it's necessarily a bad trade. I just would not like it. I don't want to get rid of the Porta, so. Jason Harwood: Yeah, I don't think it's, yeah, no, either do I. I want Sam Laporta on this team, obviously, depending on the back injury, but yeah, let's have him back for one year. But we did trade TJ Hockinson, but our team was in a totally different at that point too. Jacob Litton: What did we get for Hawkinson? Jason Harwood: Uh, I know what did we get for Hockinson? It was a pretty good return because it was in the middle of season. Jacob Litton: ⁓ we traded him traded hawkinson a fourth round pick hawkinson and two fourths for a second and a third Jason Harwood: Let's look that up. Yeah. Second and a third. wouldn't trade. Sam is better than Hockenson. ⁓ I think Sam is in every area of the game. He's a better blocker for sure. I think he is a better receiver with his hands, but he's also better with ⁓ Yak. Now it's closer. receiving potential is closer with him than the blocking. Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: I think Sam just kills him in the blocking. TJ just never seemed like he really wanted to get his hands dirty like that. I don't think he was afraid of it, but that wasn't something that he would go to. The other issue is that you trade Sam and then that opens up cap space and then you're more likely to retain branch and stuff like that. So there is a benefit besides just moving up 10 picks. I'm with you. I'd rather have Sam on this team. think... Jacob Litton: Yeah, right. Jason Harwood: We saw what happened with our offense last year after, ⁓ you know, after we, you know, lost Sam, especially like, the underrated part of Sam's game is, is yeah, he is so good when he catches the ball to get just, you know, it's not like he has to get a ton of yards, but get, know, he's not falling down right away. He's getting three, four or five yards or more after he gets that ball. And if you get him in the open field, he will juke you and he will. get extra yards. He's really effective at that. Jacob Litton: We've got a couple highlight plays of him getting to the end zone after the catch. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Right. Yup. So, good show, man. We are ⁓ Is there anything else that you got to surprise me with at the end here with, ⁓ I surprised you with the trade polls proposal. Yeah. Jacob Litton: No, man, I'm good. It was nice doing it earlier in the day. Jason Harwood: Yeah, I'm sure. You know, you're in that small space, man. You told me you got a window, because I said if you fart in there, you're going to be going to have to... I'll see with the nose clip on or something like that. Jacob Litton: Yeah, there's two windows, there's plenty of ventilation, it's gonna be okay. Jason Harwood: So the kids could look and stare at you while you're doing the podcast holding up signs. Jacob Litton: Until right before we went live they were both underneath this desk laying down watching their tablets and I had to kick them out of here So it's already started Jason Harwood: Get out of here. All right. So that's cool that you got this room, man. I'm so excited for you. So happy for you. And what it means for our show. We could go a little bit earlier and have some fun. So I do want to thank Ash for providing so many comments on there. I I had almost thought yesterday saying, hey, Ash, we're going on at 530. You won't have to stay up late. You could jump in, but it's kind of last minute. I want to do it. But I also want to shout out Tim Loomis for hitting us up on here. Hope you guys enjoyed the show. And if you're listening at home, you know, we're going to be live next week, 8.30. Love to have you guys on while we're doing the mock draft. Give us your input. That would be a lot of fun. Not next week, but the week after right now, we're Petsaddle and Eric Schlitt is going to be on. That's going to be the 15th at 8.30. I would highly recommend you guys watch that show. I would highly recommend you watch that live. We will try to get your questions in camp. Depending on how many people show up, I can't promise that all questions will be asked. But when you talk about draft experts, there's few people, as far as the lions, ⁓ specifically that I would pick over Eric and his just knowledge of all the draft picks. I would highly recommend you, know, if you can't catch us live, watch that, you know, listen to that. We got them on a week before the draft, which is going to be great. anything else? Jacob. Jacob Litton: No, can't wait man. Three weeks to the draft. Jason Harwood: All right. Yeah, we're getting there, man. All right, He's Jacob. I'm Jason. Let's go Lions.