Jason Harwood: Welcome to another episode of Talking Grit. I am Jason Harwood. With me is Jacob Letten. Before we get started today, talking about the Monty News. I just wanted to thank everybody for listening. I haven't heard from a lot of people in a while. So if you've got a topic of the show, have a guest, go to our summary, look how you can contact us. There's Twitter, there's email, old school email. Jacob, you remember that? We do that. ⁓ Glad to hear from you. know it's the slowest type of the season. if you got a show idea, we'd be interested to hear it. So Jacob, how are you doing today? Jacob Litton: I'm great. just want to point out Jason also accepts letters in the mail. He prefers that. He's not moved past it. He still has a lot of stamps he's got to use. Jason Harwood: I do, I do, Yeah. That's funny. I just mailed something out the other day, actually some baseball cards and ⁓ had to out a shipping label. But yeah, you could use stamps too. That'd be cool. Old school way. Slow mail. ⁓ right, Jacob. Big news this week. Let's get right to it. We're going to talk about free agency, obviously today, because we're going to start signing people next week. ⁓ the big news of this week was David Montgomery trade. Jacob Litton: I bet you did. Jason Harwood: How so what was your initial reaction? Let's just start there, Jacob. How did you feel when you first heard that he got traded? Jacob Litton: Well, obviously, you know, they danced around this for a long time, but right before then, they had the rumor that, you know, DeMo's looking to move on and that the Lions, you know, are trying to get a day three pick for him. And then David Montgomery posts on Twitter for the first time in forever, know, contradicting the report, I guess. And, you know, he put like, ⁓ DeMo told you that, which gave everyone a false sense of security, myself included. I was like, ⁓ my God, thank God the ESPN report is wrong. He's not looking to get out. He wouldn't have posted something like that. And then the next day, breaking news, David Montgomery traded to Houston. It crushing, man. Really, really crushing. Did not want to lose David Montgomery. that's just initial reaction was crushed. What about you though? Did you get alert the same time I did? Did I text you before you got to it? Jason Harwood: I think you hit like I the alert came when I looked before but I didn't I didn't see it initially when it came out but saw you're just I think you just sent me one word it was shit like I think that's what you sent me ⁓ I'm like and so like there could be a lot of things that we're saying that about could be something the workday something called off you know just it could be a lot of things but a lot of times for you and I I know it's lines are related so my first thought was Jacob Litton: Yeah, that sums it up. Jason Harwood: you someone traded for Max Crosby and it wasn't us and it was someone in the division. Like, you know, that would make me, that would definitely make, you might've used a different, yeah, yeah. You might've used a different word than shit though, I think, with that, if that would have happened. I mean, initially, yes, I'm crushed that Dave Montgomery's gone. It's obviously very similar feeling the Jamal Williams. right, you know, like. Jacob Litton: Wow, yeah. That could be coming later. There'll another. Yeah. Jason Harwood: the same goodbye to Jamal Williams thought he was a big part of this team. And then we upgraded with Dave Montgomery and that would, you know, that soften that blow. And then obviously he just came out and did what he did the first couple of years. We loved them. ⁓ obviously down the year last year, wasn't productive enough for him. And, know, I think the writing was on the wall that, you know, they're going to want to get Gibbs on the field as much as they want, as they, as they can. And that's going to limit David Montgomery. so. ⁓ That was my initial reaction. then a couple of that is that we both initially thought, and I think everyone thought it was for our fifth round pick, right? Then I was really upset. was like fifth round pick. Oh, I was just like, Yes. Right. So then it came out that we got a fourth rounder, a seventh rounder, and then an offensive lineman, juice, Scruggs that could play center, right? could play guard is not as, you know, we don't want to see him at guard. Jacob Litton: Yeah. Yes, that's a slap in the face. You couldn't get more than a fifth round pick. Yeah, that really added to it. Salt on the wound. Jason Harwood: At least he struggled with the Texans at guard. Who knows with better talent around him, maybe he'll be a little bit better at guard. But center, obviously with Graham, we'll talk about him a little bit. We're going to need someone for to be a center. I'm not saying that he's going to come in and be our starting center, but he's in that talk. He's in that competition. He's in that room. If anything, he gives us a backup that could play kind of like Graham all the way up and down the line. Cheaper contract to certainly than Graham. So definitely. bummed the ⁓ day not being here, bummed that our team is at this current moment, not as good as it was before the David Montgomery trade. However, if we were going to move on for David Montgomery, I am more than satisfied with what we got in return. about you? Jacob Litton: Yes, I would agree. The fifth round pick thing really was aggravating right away. But then you're essentially you're we're losing David Montgomery and we're gaining three players, right? Fourth round, seventh round, and then we're getting offensive lineman. Maybe maybe he plays guard. Maybe he plays center. We don't know. You know, they could be working very hard right now for Tate Ratledge to be practicing center, practicing, snapping the ball, learning the ins and outs. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: They could have a plan that he is going to play guard and kind of, like you said, maybe with Hank Fraley, you know, I guess the Lions just putting more stock in the offensive line, caring more about the offensive line and then coupled with, you know, if you do put them on the right side, he's going to have Peney Sewell next to him. know, so I'm sure that's that would help anybody perform just a little bit higher. So and he's coming into this completely, you know, there's no sort of guarantee to juice Scruggs. You don't even know for sure he's going to be on the team. But Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's exactly right. Jacob Litton: But he's got a fair shake, right? I mean, this is Detroit, the best player is gonna play. You are going to get a chance to prove yourself. Jason Harwood: I mean, he's a former second round pick, right? I mean, he's still, what is, is he like 27 or something like 26? So I mean, he's young, still got the development. think that that was, you know, part of the deal. you know, apparently Texans just do not like having any offensive lineman. They traded one earlier before that and their death was bad before. So what they're doing in Houston, ⁓ I know. I feel bad for David Montgomery because who, who knows who he's going to run behind over there. ⁓ could be. Jacob Litton: 26. Right? Right. I know. Jason Harwood: could be tough sledding over there. You know, we talked about the compensation, right? Like, okay, I was happy with it. So when you go back, think it's really meaningful to go back and look at past trades, right? And so Jacob and I pulled three trades that I, you know, in the recent history, like I think I probably went back to, I probably went back to 2000 to look for running back trades. I think the one for me personally, that's most comparable is the Joe Mixon trade. Joe Mixon traded in his age 27 year, ⁓ Montgomery's 29. So Mixon was younger. You have his stats from that season, right Jacob? Jacob Litton: I do have a stats pulled just for comparison. That year for the Bengals before he was traded to the Texans, Joe Mixon started in 17 games. He had 1,034 rushing yards, nine touchdowns, and then a couple of that 52 catches and three receiving touchdowns. So 12 touchdowns that year, I mean about 1,400 all purpose yards, the year that he was traded to the Texans for a seventh round pick. Jason Harwood: Exactly. Seventh rounder. They got a seventh rounder. We got that plus a player plus a fourth rounder for a 29 year old. you know, and I think that they're comparable players. think Joe Mixon, Dave Montgomery are comparable players, especially when you consider Joe Mixon was two years younger. ⁓ but you fast forward two years and he get, and Joe Mixon's hurting his age, 29 year, right? And didn't play the whole season. So you got, you got that. ⁓ Jacob Litton: Yeah, right. He could have. There were some outside sources. know, there's a lot of rumors that mixed and maybe could have played and wasn't as hard as he let on. So. We'll see. Jason Harwood: ⁓ and He showed up again ⁓ he rightfully points out that Al Karsten, friend of the show, points at ⁓ natural position is center. And I did read that article by Al Karsten. If you want to learn more about Scruggs, definitely go to Pride of Detroit, click on that article. He, Al goes really into about juice Scruggs and what he could add, you know, and if you want to know what his draft profile was. go look at that. It's very useful information. All right, so the next trade that we looked at is the Deandre Swift trade. So obviously we do that in 2023, traded Deandre Swift and a seventh rounder, and then the lines in return got a seventh rounder and a fourth rounder. essentially Deandre Swift for a fourth rounder is how that works out. Now Deandre Swift is constantly hurt. Jacob Litton: And DeAndre Swift was 24. He was on his rookie, the end of his rookie deal, right? That was the last, yeah. So I mean... Jason Harwood: Yep Yep. And we weren't going to resign DeAndre Swift. He was constantly hurt here. You know, but in the Eagles, he missed a few games with the Eagles. I think he played a majority of the season with the Bears the last couple of years. I know he's been maybe missed a couple of games, but it seems like he's been playing more, but he's kind of sharing that position last year. But I think, is he a free agent this year? Is Swift a free agent? Jacob Litton: I did not see him in any of my free agent rankings. Doesn't mean that he's not a free agent, but I mean, he's definitely not, you know, towards the top of the crop of running backs. Jason Harwood: Okay, yeah, I'm not sure. Um, and the next, the last big, huge running back trade was Christian McCaffrey going from the Panthers to the 49ers Panthers ended up giving a second, a third, a fourth, and a fifth rounder on that. Um, on that, that deal. So, you know, Christian McCaffrey, obviously best running back in the league at that point, health was a concern with him and it still continues to be, uh, but what he added to the offense, he's definitely was worth those second, third, fourth, fifth round picks, but I think you got really good value for Dave Montgomery, a 29 year old back who was essentially our backup running back. Jacob Litton: Right. Absolutely. know, time will tell. We'll see how he does this year, next year, as far as, you know, like numbers wise, if it's going to be good. I mean, on the surface, we definitely came out ahead. And bottom line, David Montgomery did not want to be here anymore. He loves Detroit, but he did not want to. I mean, that's what Brad Holmes, Dan Campbell, everyone kind of talked about. Amon Rahm, his podcast, kind of said the same thing. Like, you know, it sucks. Everybody's really, you know, Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: upset for ourselves, for us and the team and everything. Obviously he's a good player. We want him here, but you got to kind of be happy for him to be able to be like, you know what? Here you go. Now you have the opportunity to go get those carries, do what you believe that you're capable of doing and that you just didn't get a chance to do when you were here. I will say if David Montgomery has some sort of all pro type season this year, it's going to look very bad on Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes, ⁓ you know, for, for cutting into his carries the way that they did. And, you know, obviously you feed the ball to Jameer Gibbs because the type of player that Jameer Gibbs is, but the whole Sonic and Knuckles fire and ice, you know, keeping everybody fresh during thing really worked in 2024. And then it just didn't work. We shied away from that in 2025. And that's what led to this. Jason Harwood: Let me ask you let me ask you this we you and I are both happy with the compensation that we got Do you think Brad Holmes was in the position that you know, we're gonna just hold, know, Dave Montgomery may not want to be here But we hold the cards, right? He's under our contract either he plays or he doesn't play we're you know We're gonna say yes to a deal that really works out for us as opposed to I would say almost a Deandre Swift type thing. We drafted Jumeir Gibson We didn't have the cards at that point. were like, oh, this team needs to get rid of Deandre Swift. So we didn't have any leverage in that deal. So do you think that the Lions were just going to hold onto them unless they got, I'm going to say blown away by a deal, but I think fairly, you know, more than fairly compensated is, is how I would generalize this trade. So do you think that's what happened? Jacob Litton: I do think that they, mean, the combine happened, you know, the GMs all talk of the combine, these things all come up. He maybe put out some feelers, Brad Holmes talking. You're right. We did not have to move on from David Montgomery. Of course he wasn't happy, but you know, he also had the thing where maybe Petsing made him a little bit, you know, optimistic, I guess, about how the season may go if he stayed here. So it's not like it was a hundred percent foregone conclusion. And I don't think that it was just like, Hey, you know what? David Montgomery is on the block. The first team that calls will work something out. I don't think it was like that. Whereas Deandre Swift, we probably were like, hey, you know, we're trying to unload this guy. What can we get for him? Fourth round pick sounds good. Who's to say, you know, maybe there were multiple teams involved in the pursuit of David Montgomery and we chose the Texans. There's also a chance that we talked, you know, Brad Holmes, you know, sometimes they talk to the agents. If the players, you know, prefer one team over another, maybe they try to work a little bit more of a deal there. But That's really good compensation. So I mean, maybe the Texans were just the highest bidders. That one would be hard to pass up on. You've got somebody that doesn't want to be here anyway. Is it running back? You know, he's 28, 29, but he's aging himself out, right? I mean, you're a time bomb when you're running back, especially when you're that style of running back as far as injuries and how everything's going to hold up. So I obviously wanted David Montgomery on the team, but I I'm happy with what we got. And I feel like, you know, A couple years down the road, we'll say that it was probably a better move for everybody involved. Jason Harwood: All right. My next question is, and this is from Alliance organizational philosophy. Let's just go there. Lions want to take care of their players. think that they've shown that Dan Campbell really cares about his players. You'd agree with that statement, correct? ⁓ So say Dave Montgomery came there and said, you know, I want to be, you know, I want to get more carries. Do you think the Lions looked at that and cared more about Dave Montgomery? Jacob Litton: All right. 100%. Jason Harwood: and like what he meant for us and try to take care of them then say, cause I think we're a better team with Dave Montgomery here right now. I think that that's true. So do you think the Lions like took too much care about what the player wants and not what the team needs? you, do you, would you say that's accurate? Jacob Litton: I don't think so. know, this is this is difficult because we knew as the season was going like what's going on. Why is Deemo not getting the ball more? Why are we not utilizing him the way that we should? And end up being that way pretty much the whole year. I mean, obviously he had flashes and he had a few games where he had several carries. But for the most part, you know, when he's out there, he is running the ball at the middle. He's getting a yard or two and then we're moving on. Then it's right back to Gibbs. So we weren't utilizing him the right way. I, you know, you could read on his face that he wasn't happy. Right. I mean, as the season's going on, you can tell that David Montgomery is not happy. There's no way that they don't have those conversations. And, you know, if they didn't, and that is just maybe going back to the Dan Campbell having too much on his plate, calling the offensive plays, not having a good enough read on the team. That's what I said, like would look very bad on them if, you know, David Montgomery still has four or five years of great running back play. I don't think that that's the case. And I don't think I mean. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: Bottom line, they had to do what was best for the team. Did we probably get a little bit worse off this trade right now? Yes. Are we going to sign a free agent running back? Are we going to draft a running back round six, round seven that might be as productive or meet that level of David Montgomery, you know, this year or next? That's possible, right? And then you've got somebody that's 21, you know, 22 years old that could be here longer. What's your opinion though? Do you think that we were looking... Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jacob Litton: looking out for him too much or I mean Jason Harwood: That's hard to know. mean, we don't know all the details, but it's just a thought that came to my mind. Like it's a very tough thing to balance, like team needs and player needs and like long-term, you know, you want to be a place that, you know, takes care of its players. think that's an easier way to bring in players. ⁓ but you know, you also have to balance like, all right, do we have a window? And I don't think the Brad Holmes, the dead Campbell look like I don't think they look at windows at all. And I think they're offended by the term windows. Like they think if they're good at their jobs, it should be a perpetual thing. And I get that. That being said, you you have contracts being due. We saw what injuries did to us last year. know, Kirby Joseph being one of them, a guy that we thought was going to be here long-term. And now, you know, we're wondering whether he's going be able to play this year and is his career over or, or altered. in such a way that he's not going to be the impact player that we're used to. Brian Bryant, same thing, know, tore Achilles that can be a tricky injury. People are recovering from that much faster and that's, and that's good. But for a player that uses explosive, like, you know, he needs to be explosive and have that, you know, that jump, um, that, may affect him and he just might not be as, as impactful, uh, as, as he could be. So. from that perspective, like you gotta, you know, you, gotta take your best shots, but we did save some money. We got good return. So, you know, I guess all that goes in the equation. And so I'm, I'm overall happy. Now, if we had to trade him for fifth, sixth, seventh round pick, then I would have been like, that's dumb. Like why, why even do that? Yeah. You just give it away. Now I know I like that we're acquiring some picks. I like getting the fourth and seventh rounders because we have Jacob Litton: Right, you're giving them away, yeah. Jason Harwood: We don't obviously don't have a third this year, but now we have two fourths. I think we have two fifths. Now we probably have two sevenths. You you couple some of those, you could get back up, man. You could manipulate around, you can move around a little bit. now I want, I personally want, especially in third round, ⁓ want, I don't want a project. I, need to have someone that has like, I mean, Jacob Litton: so we can trade back up. Yeah. Jason Harwood: For what we need right now, you you don't have to go for the highest ceiling. Like sometimes a very high floor and a guy that's ready to come in and play. It would be really nice. And, and I think we're going to talk a little bit about this when we talk about the Rams in a little bit. So I don't want to get too far into that talk. so, I'm before we move off this topic, have, you know, it's been two days since the trade Jacob are, do you find that your feelings are the same or are you just like, used to it now and you're just ready to move on or are you still on the I miss demo and I wish it was on our roster. Jacob Litton: You know, it's still fresh. I still miss demo, still wish he was a part of the team. But like I said, they're going to have to get some other running back here. They might draft somebody. We're going to have to, you know, as the team moves on, you're going to be more excited about the season coming and you're going to have to let it go. But you though, I mean, still hold none of that or you kind of. ⁓ Jason Harwood: Nope. I'm sad he's gone. I did not like telling the boys that he was gone. ⁓ Bradley himself was upset about it. Preston, they're young and they don't get the economics and the team building. They're not that far into it that they that. If I'd said we'd trade him for Tyreek Hill, they'd probably have been super excited. You know what I mean? Just another name player. ⁓ Jacob Litton: Yeah. Right Jason Harwood: Just that that's how their mind works. Now they don't get into like what you can get with the draft and all that. So from that perspective, I do ⁓ him. I do miss him being solid. However, if we were going to continue to use him the way that we used him last year, now I'd rather spend that money a little bit somewhere else and also let Demo have his stuff. ⁓ Another player we say goodbye to this week was Graham Glasgow. That was certainly on everybody's radar. I had been more shocked had that not happened, that it did happen. Saved the Lions about five and a half million in cap space. First, do you think this is Grant? I think this is 10 years for Graham. Do you think he's done? Is he retiring or do you think he'd go to another team? Jacob Litton: You know, he made his post like, you know, to thank Detroit for everything like that. And he did not say that he was retiring. So maybe he tries to latch on somewhere. But I do think, you know, his best years are behind him. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Let's say the Lions could sign up for a veterans minimum deal or close to it. Would you be open to bringing him back? Jacob Litton: mean, he knows the offense, he knows, you know, he's a good teammate, good person to have in the locker room. But not, you know, not a great person to have on the football field. But if you need him in a pinch, I, you know, equate that to almost like how skippers been the last couple years. If you need somebody to throw in a spot that's gonna, you know, know the offense is gonna know what to do. Yes, then you can have Glasgow back in there. But I think that's behind I think we're getting younger and you know, Potentially with the free agents and the draft and everything like that. We're gonna have quite a few, you know interior offensive linemen Jason Harwood: Yep. Yeah. I I'm in your boat. Like, yeah, if he could, like, if he was like, depending on our depth, I, you know, practice squad, I just don't think that, you know, I think he'd rather retire than do practice squad at this point. And Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: Unless he's like really attached to, you know, Taylor Decker's last year. Just wants to be, you know, ride with him. Uh, I said last year, I'm assuming this is Taylor's last year, but, uh, you know, that, that could be in his mind that he just wants to ride with his, his buddies one more time. Um, Graham got dealt like a rough, I, to me, Graham got, he got dealt a rough hand. know, he coming here to be a right guard. Then they, you know, we did pretty good that first year. Then Zeitler comes in, they move them over to left guard and then Frank retires. And then they move them to center. I mean, that, that would have been tough for anybody. And yes, we need better production. You and I both noticed so much over the center over, over the year that the center position was lacking. Was that part, part of us comparing him to Frank probably, but at the same time, his center play wasn't, wasn't great. ⁓ yeah, Graham was dealt a a rough blow, but it's time to like you said, you said it perfectly. We got to get younger at the position and we got to grow some talent. Jacob Litton: Definitely. Jason Harwood: Nope. Uh, today Jake Bates was tendered. So he's what they call an exclusive rights free agent. Essentially any player that becomes a free agent before they get three years of service is called an exclusive rights free agent, which means the Lions just basically have to offer them a contract. Now, Jake Bates does not have to sign the contract, but if he doesn't sign it, then he has to sit out. He can't play this year. Um, and I believe if he came back, then he would be, you know, eligible, you know, he'd sit out for a year and then he could sign for whoever. But as of right now, the Lions will get him back a veterans minimum, which is like less than 1.1 million. So we're getting a heck of a deal for Jake Bates, in my opinion. Jacob Litton: does he hold out and just sign that $10 million contract next season or, Jason Harwood: ⁓ my god if he no I Brandon Aubrey is gonna ruin it for everybody but not Brandon Aubrey is one of one Jake Bates may kick the ball far but You he was definitely up and down last year rookie year. Very good last year up and down ⁓ Jacob Litton: Ha Right, right. Agreed. And I think that that salary is, you know, it's it's a steal, but it's also fair, you know, with all things considered coming, you know, from the U.F.L. and everything that he did. So, I mean, this will be one last prove it year and then we'll see what happens. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yep. And then he'll get paid. mean, we're going to it's obvious. Jacob Litton: We hope that he does well enough that he gets paid, right? We don't want this to be another up and down year where we talk about, it the worst thing if we move on from him? Jason Harwood: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the scary part, right? If he has like, let's say he, let's say he has the same years last year, Jacob, let's just say, let's use that as baseline. He has the same years last year. Are you signing him to, you know, mid level, like 5 million a year? Like the higher is six point, I think we said 6.7 Aubrey's going to beat that this year. We don't know what he's going to get. I mean, he's asking 10, but who knows? Let's say he gets eight. I mean, I don't think Bates is going to outpace Aubrey. Like if he's like, I'm just using hypothetical. He did what he did last year. If he did what he did last year, are you looking to move on? Are you happy with him? Or are you looking to sign him? I'm sure it's going to be around 5 million or so. Jacob Litton: I I'll say he was good, but not great, right? I mean, he left a little bit to be desired. It wasn't quite as automatic as we would hope it'd be. Also, maybe not as many opportunities because of how frequently you go for it on 4,000 and things like that versus the Cowboys. I mean, it's fourth and one, but they're 58-yard field goal range. They're going to take that field goal. And we do not play that way. So that's why Brandon Aubrey maybe had ⁓ more chances there. ⁓ Jason Harwood: Yep. Jacob Litton: I would say if he has an identical year to what he did last year, mean, five million would be like top five kicker money, right? Does the kicker market, you know, reset and you're constantly paying kickers more and more every year? Not exactly. So, I mean, I, you know, it would be hard to pick out a fair contract with how many other people that we have to pay. Not that I want to be, you know, signing three or four kickers during training camp and trying to have one of these battles and changing hickers four or five times throughout the year. Jason Harwood: Yeah. No. Jacob Litton: I want no part of that. And that's why it's good to have the continuity and that you hope he does play well. But that's tough for me if he has the same year to say, we'll give you three, top five kicker money. But I mean, do you think that's like a no brainer just to keep the same kicker that he's done well enough or. ⁓ Jason Harwood: I think two things play into that. Number one, think you're right. Like I don't want we've been through it right where we're signing three kickers by week four. Like we don't want that. Right. You know, we we went through that. Don't want that. Also, I think kickers are going to start getting paid more just because of what we saw last year. They you know, they changed the rules and now you can get the you know, you get the kick balls during the week and you could do whatever you want to do to manipulate them. And that's why they're way more accurate late. So these kickers are having amazing seasons and therefore they're going to go to their, you know, their agent's going to say, Hey, my kicker, you know, like Ken Little kicked, you know, broke the record. He's definitely deserves to be the highest paid kicker ever. He's kicked the longest field goal. Uh, you know, they're going to have more ammunition because their stats are going to look better or they can kick further more accurately further. So I think that that's all going to play into it. I think you. I don't, I definitely don't give, you know, reset the market with Jake Bates, but he's got to get, you know, I would say top. I, if he plays the way he plays last year, I bet you the lions give him, I'll say top six money. I'd say somewhere in there. I don't know what that, what that works out with, but top five, top six, I bet you that that's what they give. Jacob Litton: Well, so just, don't know if you already know this or not, but I mean, do you know what his kicking percentage was last year? His field goal percentage? 79%. I mean, that was 32nd in the league. Obviously you've got maybe like five or six of those people that are above him that only kicked less than 10 field goals. Let me see. One, two. Oh, there's only two people on that list that kick less than 10 field goals. Everybody else is in double digits. So I mean, that's, know, Jason Harwood: No, I don't. Go ahead. Yeah. Yep. Jacob Litton: 79 % and that's top five money. Jason Harwood: I just think that his distance, I think the way the Lions view him is different than how we view him. way Dave Phipp talks about him, I'm just gonna stand on that, but it is. Jacob Litton: It's still about potential, right? We've seen how far he can kick it. We've seen what he's capable of. We've seen that potential. But I mean, now based on this year is where the contract part is going to come into play. Jason Harwood: Awesome. will say his kickoffs got better too. And I do like the way, I mean, we were very good on like after like most of it was covered stuff, but he was very good at kicking it at the, consistently cooking, kicking and a corner at the two yard line. Like, and they had to return it. Like he was very good at that. So, ⁓ you know, if he could, know, another trick to his bag, you know, get a squid kick or something like that, just to add a wrinkle, that'd be awesome. Let's, move on here, Jacob. So ⁓ Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: Probably this week, we're going to see at some point, I would say before Monday, before next Wednesday when ⁓ agency really, you know, when it can, they can really sound the contract. Gough and Amon Ra, maybe Pinesul ⁓ all be restructuring the deal. So are you expecting, I'm expecting that anytime now. I kind of shocked that we haven't seen it yet. ⁓ Jacob Litton: Right. I kind of thought with the movement we even have, and we might hear about that today, what's the point in delaying that? That's almost inevitable. Golf, for sure. But I mean, if you want the space that we need to improve the team and free agency, if you're really going for that, then Amon Ra and Panay probably restructure all of them, then you've got a lot of money to work with. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. I'm curious how it's all gonna shake out like Are they gonna wait till Monday like they could have like I bet you that they've already had the talks with the agents, right? They probably have some contingency plans in place and say Monday rolls around We can't officially sign a contract till Wednesday. We need to be under the cap by Wednesday neck like next Wednesday the ⁓ so you have the you know, if we have those conversations at a time maybe some predetermined agreements and then, you know, depending on who we go to sign or what's, you know, what, you know, what comes up, maybe it'll trigger doing. And all we really need to do is essentially by Wednesday is to get under the cap and then, and then absorb any contracts that we signed a free agency. So we, we could also wait a little bit, you know, and then do, you know, I'm in our penne closer to the draft when we have to sign those draft picks. could do that too. And then you know, just play with it as opposed to making that decision now and then that affects you in the years on future and you really didn't need to do that right now. Jacob Litton: That's why I think golf for sure. And then Amon Ra or Panay. I think that one of those two needs to be done right away. then depending on where you're at, if you do the third, like the Cowboys, Cowboys today though, CD, Lam, Tyler Smith and Dak all got restructured. It was like something like 60 million or something that they made in space. Jason Harwood: Yep, saw that. They had to though, I they were pretty, were they, how far were they? I mean I know they're under the cap now, but were they in worse shape than us or? Jacob Litton: I don't have that in front of me right now. I believe that they were in a similar position. Jason Harwood: They had to clear that money for Brandon Aubrey, Jacob Litton: Yeah, right, right. That'll be announced tomorrow. Jason Harwood: Well, they, yeah, exactly. So let's, while you're looking that up, Combine Rumors this week, why don't you hit that up? Why don't you talk about ⁓ the rumors were and we can kind of react to that. Jacob Litton: This kind of goes with what we were just talking about about the necessity to restructure because the there's been conflicting reports out of the combine that, you know, I don't have their names, but I mean, what you've got one reporter saying, you know what? sounds like the Lions could be like heavy hitters and free agency, and they may really be making a splash. And there's a lot of players that they're looking at. They could really be making some changes to the team. And then like the next day, there's other reports from somebody else at the combine, some other insider saying, Sounds like the Lions are going to be relatively quiet during free agency and just focus on in-house contracts and building through the draft. So that leads us right back to square one where we are before, is we don't know, you know, we know this team pretty closely and we don't even know what to expect out of free agency and what we're going to do. Jason Harwood: Yeah, it'll be interesting. The report about us being like conservative was from Dave Burkett. So I don't know where the aggressive one came from, but Dave Burkett and so Justin Rogers in group chat thing that he's in that I'm a part of, he basically said that's agent talk. Like he equated to that to like, you know, the agents are, you know, what they're hearing. goes, that could be accurate and it could be way off. You you, you just, you just don't know. So. We'll find out when everybody else finds out on Monday, Tuesday, you know, as things start to heat up, who we're going to sign them in. Last year we went in Monday, right? We got DJ Reed right away. Like we weren't, we didn't know what we were going to expect. And we got one of the top corners in the league on that, on day one, lost one, and then we gained one on the same day. So, uh, yeah, exactly. So I don't know what to expect. Well, Jacob Litton: Exactly. Quick moving. Jason Harwood: Max Crosby type deal, being the highest, signing, you know, some backup offensive lineman as being the lowest. Are closer to the Max Crosby? Are we closer to the ⁓ backup lineman next week when we have our podcast? Jacob Litton: if they were closer to the back of offensive lineman, right? That kind of seems to be the way we do things. It'd be somebody that's like, man, I've never even heard of that guy. And they'll have played like eight years in the league. It's like, he's played for three different teams he's been around. You know, I'm not expecting any kind of splash like that. And I don't know, depending on who it is and how much we're paying, I don't know how excited I personally would be. Obviously the fans are always circling these big player names. And when we break down free agency in a little bit here, I've got like, you know, the home run hitters versus my sleeper picks and things like that. But I definitely think of those two reports, especially with the one being day per cat closer to the team. I think I would believe that one. Right. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it's going to be very similar to what we saw the last few years. I wouldn't be surprised if we sign like some, you know, a good center, you know, a high center, a high ranked center, not Linda bomb. don't think we're going to be in the market for him. But, you know, someone in our list that's, you good. I could see us spending on offensive lineman as skilled position players. I'd be really shocked if we spent any money on any skilled position players. Jacob Litton: don't need it. Jason Harwood: and any edge that we would get, I don't think people are going to be like, they're not, it's not going be Henderson, you know, going to be someone on this list that's going to play the Lions brand of football. And don't really want to understand that the Lions don't want a speed rusher on the other side of Aiden Hutchinson. don't, they want a guy that sets the edge. They just want a different type of player. And, and ⁓ you're... Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: perfectly fine to argue with that and be mad about that. That's just the way that they play. it's not, it's not that they're in my opinion, it's not that they're ignoring that. It's the fact that that's just not the way they want to play. All right, Jacob. So today was a, I, let's talk about this. So Trent McDuffie deal. We don't need to like break down like the fairness of this deal. What I want to talk about is from Alliance perspective. Trent McDuffie goes from the Chiefs. to the Rams for first, a third, a fifth, and a six round pick. I think the third is for next year, but the rest of those, the first, the fifth, and the sixth are this year. So how the Rams do business. And you know, we saw them in the playoffs last year. Obviously they had a down year. the one year Stafford got hurt and it was right after, you know, they won the super bowl. Do you think, I mean, there are fans that want us to do this. There are fans that want us to just go all in on like this, but the Rams keep, the Rams are the example. Why, right? They keep doing this and they're in the playoffs. They've won a Superbowl. So are you mad that the Lions don't do this? Do you think that we should do this? What's your thought on that? Jacob Litton: Yeah, man, this is interesting because this is perfect kind of comparison about like team building strategies and styles and what you could get. Obviously, we have a really good team and we were just in the NFC Championship two years ago, but the Rams won a Super Bowl and the Rams had one down year. other than that, outside of like when they traded Jared Goff for Stafford have been at the top and they've only had one one round pick that they've drafted, I believe, in the last it's been like eight years or something like that. ⁓ Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and they hit huge on it. Jarvis. Jacob Litton: Yeah, exactly. You know, this just goes to show like when you know what you're doing when you're strategic around it, I mean, that can work out for you. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah, they draft really well later on. Jacob Litton: I don't know that I necessarily want, right, right. I was just going to say, I don't know that I necessarily want to be like, let's follow in their footsteps and just start losing all of our first round picks. Cause we are the example of when you do hit on all of your picks, what your team can look like. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Let me add, I don't know, like, try McDolphrey, maybe not the player or the position that you would do this for, but say you saw this for Max. We gave first, third, fifth, and sixth up for Max. What's your level? Are you happy? Are you indifferent? Or where are you at on your? Jacob Litton: Done. I absolutely am ecstatic and I would do that. Jason Harwood: You would do that. You would give up first, third, fifth and sixth. Jacob Litton: If they so if they called like it, you know, and that's funny that you mentioned that because you know, he's being shopped, right? Rumors are that he's being shopped. The favorite, the Vegas favorite right now is the Bears. I don't want that. Micah Parsons in Green Bay, Max Crosby in Chicago. I don't want that at all. That's you know, especially if you know that's a possibility, if they're like, you know, first, third, fifth and sixth, and they're not all the same year, they're separate years as well. Jason Harwood: Yeah. No. Jacob Litton: ⁓ you know, and then you get max Crosby. I mean, that's huge, right? That's the impact player that we're talking about. That's somebody that wants to be here. huge fan favorite. mean, instantly just ups the defense that I would love that. The problem is then what the contract and what that means for everyone else later on, how long do you keep max Crosby for before you're trying to move him? Or does that mean that because we have max Crosby, then we have to start shopping? you know, Brian Branch or somebody else, you know, like I don't want that. So that's the problem that I like the players that we have to the in-house people that we need to keep. What comes of them when this kind of thing happens? Jason Harwood: Yeah. I think when you say, first, third, fifth, and six for max. Yeah. You're probably on the surface saying, I do that. It's the opportunity costs that you just mentioned though. We're probably not going be able to assign Laporta. Maybe if a branch gets thrown out there or, know, you got Gibbs Campbell branch of Laporta all, you know, coming up soon here. So the injuries to the two of those players really complicates contracts, especially because they don't have a fifth year option. Those two, they were second rounders. So we got. it, you know, we either let them, you know, you know, go into the free agency year or, you know, we sign them to, you know, extension now we're in the season. So I don't know how that's all going to shake out, but there's no way you can afford Max Max's contract. Aiden starts to bump up, you know, next year and be able to keep all those. Now you could also make the argument. If we, know, Kirby to me complicates it, but say Kirby was healthy in the back. Could you afford to get branched because you got to ⁓ elite rushers. You saw what the Texans could just wreak havoc just because you can get to the quarterback so fast. it would definitely be a change of philosophy for the Lions defense and how they want to play. However, I will say that Max is a full effort player just like Aiden Hutchinson. So he's going to be given it all. I'm okay with it from that perspective because It's definitely ⁓ a philosophy fit, a grit fit, whatever you want to call it. He'll fit in here. I just, it's more than the draft picks. It's what you're giving up, you know, later on down the line. However, would it make this year's really, really, really exciting? Yeah, it would make this year really, really, really exciting. ⁓ that would be amazing. Jacob Litton: Right. But, you know, that's also when you're for whatever reason, for the Rams, it's like they constantly are like right on the cusp. And when they're making these trades, they're helping their team and they're like right there every single year. It feels like I mean, last year they could have done it last year, too. Obviously, they, you know, Seahawks beat them that Seahawks went on to win the Super Bowl. That could have just as easily been the Rams. The Rams have a better cornerback, you know, to slow down the Seahawks offense. And maybe that's over with. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: That's clearly what they're looking for is that's the missing piece. I mean, you know, let's just talk about the, you know, the Terry on Arnold thing. We've got to Aaron Arnold. That was a first round pick. If we did not have that first round pick, if we had traded that for a cornerback or, know, like whatever it had been at the time, if we trade that for Max Crosby and went a different way, a free agent cornerback instead, would, would the team have worked out better? Jason Harwood: Yeah. mean, Trav McDuffie's got to get paid too. So he's got a contract that you're going to have to pay, whereas Tarion, you know, we've been paying him a rookie contract. Okay. Jacob Litton: Or whoever the first round pick is, is, I mean, I don't know how much Trent Mcduffery's contract is. Obviously, Terry on was a first round pick, so his is going to be kind of high. Jason Harwood: Well, think Trey McDuffrey is, I think he's at the end of his rookie deal as far as I know, but then he's projected to sign an extension. Like the Rams aren't going to do this unless he signs an extension and they're not going to trade for draft picks for a one-year rental. I'm sure the extension has to be on their mind. I do want to talk about the Bears Drew Dahlman retiring. That was huge news. ⁓ my gosh. That blew my mind when I saw that. Jacob Litton: Yeah, that was unexpected. know, now the Bears fans know how we feel with Frank, right? ⁓ thought everything was cool and then turns out, wait, no, it's not. Now we have a massive hole on our team. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yep. I know that's gotta be a gut punch for Ben Johnson. ⁓ you know, just he's drew Doma was 27 years old. You know, he, young guy just made the pro bowl. ⁓ interesting. I, I ⁓ the reports aren't out of why he did it. Like was a personal choice. Has he had some health issues that we don't know about is, you know, Caleb Williams nail polish getting on his butt too much. don't, we don't know what, what's the, ⁓ the, what's Jacob Litton: Ha! Kayla being back there so much made him too uncomfortable. He can't do it anymore. Jason Harwood: Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's just like, ⁓ this is very uncomfortable. So I don't know. I'm curious, you the story behind that. ⁓ However, to make ⁓ our... two sides to this for me. It's good because it diminishes, like... the talent on the bears overall. The bad thing is it happened before free agency. it adds another person in the center market, right? And we're in that market possibly. so I don't like that because that, you know, increases demand, which increases price, right? Jacob Litton: All right. I don't need a bidding war with anybody. Jason Harwood: Yep. You know, and the bears have been sniffing around Linda bomb and ⁓ my God, you want to talk about a meltdown if we don't get Linda bomb and the bears do. my God. The with, you know, Brad Holmes and ⁓ bikinis and suits will start, you know, sh- ruin their faces again. Yep. Jacob Litton: Yeah, right. Well, you know, people are going to be angry just as if Max Crosby gets traded. I mean, if he gets traded anywhere other than Detroit, especially if you find out it was only for like one first and then later on picks, I mean, people are going to have a field day with that. Jason Harwood: They are. know, ⁓ only other thing that I guess I find, well, Kyle, Kyler Murrigan cut ⁓ he hasn't officially been cut, the talk, you know, they said next week, that's probably because they're trying to work out a trade, but that's probably not going to happen. If, know, when he gets cut, then people could sign him for a ⁓ lesser I'm, I'm, I'm curious where he goes. I do. I think I mentioned like Minnesota. Like I lost, but I don't want to see him go to Minnesota via Kevin O'Connell recovery project. He goes there for one year. He has a good year. And then, you know, he goes and makes a bag somewhere else. So don't want to see him ⁓ Minnesota. ⁓ have to play for a smaller deal. Cause I don't think Minnesota has, you know, they're already 40 million over in the cap and they're, and they're, they're cutting everybody. So, I don't know. I, I just thought that was interesting that they decided to cut kind of Murray and then the AJ Brown stuff on the trade box. Jacob Litton: They have no money, right? Jason Harwood: I want nothing to do with AJ Brown. I don't think he'd be a fit at the Lions, but for any team, I really just, he's a dynamic player. There's no doubt about it, but I just, I wouldn't want him on the team. He doesn't get full effort all the time. Jacob Litton: That's also, yes, that's exactly what I was just going to say is that's also when he's giving maximum effort, which you don't see very often. He's constantly seems like he's got an issue with somebody on the team or something. You know, plays not going his way. The target's not going his way. We just do not need anybody like that. the Kyler Murray stuff, though, I mean, like real quick, just to gloss over like digs, Stefan Diggs was cut by the Patriots today as well. But that's the same kind of thing. Like we don't need anybody who thinks they're above the team. Jason Harwood: And when you ⁓ yeah. Jacob Litton: and you know, it's going to be causing any sort of issue but Jason Harwood: ⁓ Well, he's got off the field stuff too. Like, you don't want to touch that with it, you know, like, right. Jacob Litton: Yeah, he might not even be signed, right? ⁓ But Kyler Murray, let's say hypothetically, Kyler Murray wants to follow Petsing and just is like, hey, I'll play on this really, really cheap deal. I'll come to Detroit, back up Jared Goff, learn. This is not anything that I consider even being in the cards. But let's say that you're Brad Holmes. We have a chance to add Kyler Murray to the team for a really cheap deal. You got to pay more than but. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: Would you be open to adding Kylin Murray to the team? Or do you think like we don't want to touch this, we don't want the distraction? He's way too different of a quarterback than Jared Goff. Jason Harwood: Man. Well, I think the wild card here is that you have Petsing, right? He's worked directly with him. If Petsing signs off, then I'd be interested. Just because Petsing is going to see the Kyler Murray that none of us see, he'll know, does this guy study? Is he in the playbook? Is he going to be able to tolerate being a backup QB? Like all that stuff. I think Petsing, I mean, you may not know a hundred percent, but you have a, he'll have a very, very good read after being in Arizona last few years to You know, didn't know what, what Kyler Murray could handle. Would Kyler Murray be an upgrade over Kyle Allen? Oh heck yeah. And he gives you the leg, the legs issue that like, that I think is important for a backup quarterback. Cause like a backup quarterback isn't getting all the first team snaps. He's got to be able to improvise a little bit. And no way do I want Kyler Murray being my started quarterback, but say Jared Goff went down, I feel definitely a lot more comfortable with Kyler Murray in there than I would Kyle Allen. Jacob Litton: Right, right. Yeah, no, I, you know, it's interesting because the pet thing stuff, but it's also if they do just straight up cut him, which we envision that they're not going to be able to trade him, they're going to have to cut him. They're going to have to eat it. He's so good. He's already been paid a lot of money from Arizona. He's going to continue to get money from Arizona. So this may be like the the Russell Wilson situation, right? Where he's like, OK, well, you know what? I'll just sign for, you know, the minimum. I'll sign for a million dollars just to go somewhere, you know. Would that be for Kyler Murray if he's going to sign somewhere like Detroit though? That would not be necessarily like betting on yourself. That's almost like riding out the market and seeing what you have versus trying to go like to Minnesota and signing for minimum where you have a chance to start and potentially earn another contract. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't see that that it's going be in the cards because I think depending on what Aaron Rodgers does, like the Steelers are definitely an option for Kyler Murray to go to. The Jets are obviously an option. Atlanta could be an option. know, as as like starting jobs, Miami would be another place that he could go to start. So like he he'll have options to go and start and obviously make more money. So I just I. Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: Unless like he is not like, I don't know what his injury status is. I think he could have came back because they decided to just shelve them. But I think even last year he could have come back. know, Pete, maybe he had a lingering issue and he was going to be out for a little bit. Maybe he doesn't want to showcase like that when he's not 100 % going to that contract, maybe getting a backup deal for a year, learning in, you know, a place, a great offense like Detroit or something like that would be an option. If that happened, it would be. It would blow my mind, but he's got to get a starting job somewhere. There's going to be, there's too many of them out there and he's looked at as too dynamic to, to be sitting on the bench. ⁓ be interesting. don't know. Yeah. Jacob Litton: I got another question for you. If you're Kyler Murray and you're, you know, your agent's calling around and it's like, man, there's not a lot of interest out there. ⁓ you know, the jets are potentially wanting to sign you, or you can go back and try to play baseball again. If Kyler Murray, do you go to New York or do you just say, you know what, maybe I'm going to give the baseball thing a try now. Jason Harwood: That's funny. You know, I don't know. first of all, going to play baseball now, like I saw that on Twitter, like, dude, there's guys that sit in the minor leagues forever. There's top guys that go in the minor leagues for two or three years because, you know, when's the last time he's picked up a baseball bat? And if even if it's been recently, when's the last time that he's seen a pro slider, you know, or anything like that? It just, if he did that, that'd be like some Jacob Litton: at 30. Right, Outside of playing MLB the show. Jason Harwood: That'd be like a Tim Tebow stuff, you know, where I'm going to just try this and, you know, and some people sign them. Jacob Litton: Yeah. I forgot that Teebo even did that. ⁓ Yeah, right. Hey, he sold a lot of tickets. He sold a lot of tickets. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. Mets man. Yeah. And the Mets wanted, they wanted to bring them up. Yeah, exactly. He did. And it was, you know, similar vein is a Jordan type thing. You know, it's all publicity. doesn't, it's not serious. But yeah. McKay Bechtin was cut too. And we kind of did talk about that, but that's a guard that's going to be on the market. So I don't know, you know, if we're going to be interested in that, that, that'd be one. ⁓ Juwan also cut. not interested in the full start machine himself. Jacob Litton: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Jason Harwood: ⁓ So but McKay Beckton may be on the radar depending on the contract that he gets. All right. I you know, we've bumped up we are at you know, 55 minutes right now you know talk about the free agent list. So Talk about the Lions free agents first. So I looked at two lists Jacob I did the NFL top 100 and then ESPN just came out with one of their lists It is updated with the players that were cut like all the way up like Kyler Murray's on the list and stuff like that. So for the NFL top one, the lists are vastly different. I don't know if you compared the list, but they are vastly different. Uh, the NFL has two lions on it. Uh, DJ reader is at 59 and Alkiddy Muhammad's 83. And on the ESPN list, there are two lions on it. Alkiddy Muhammad again at 91 and Alex Anzaloni is at 47. So NFL top 100 didn't put Anzaloni in the top 100, which I think is a huge mistake. I think he's one of the top. Jacob Litton: Right, right, I did. Jason Harwood: 100 free agents. Yeah. Jacob Litton: Yeah, the NFL one came out first and I went up and down. Like I went through the list on my phone twice and then I had to do like, uh, you know, on the computer where you're like, okay, control F search. Like how, where is he at? Like my man, he's really not on this list. Yeah. Which was really interesting. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, the number one on the NFL list is insane to me. Do know who it is? Jacob Litton: I think they updated it. When they first posted that list, the number one they had was Malik Willis. Okay. Jason Harwood: It's still Malik Willis. Number one is Malik Willis, where I get it. OK, quarterbacks are going to be ranked higher. But Malik Willis really like this is like a Scott Mitchell thing. Lions fans know what Scott Mitchell is comes in and does, you know, it. Dan Marino's backup. think Malik Willis has looked good, but would you be you got to sign up for top free agent money at a quarterback having like so few starts? I don't know. Their excuse for him being up there is they looked at it as the draft. So if you have any quarterbacks in the draft, you're going to move them up to number one, no matter if they are the top talent or not. And I don't look at that as equivalent as all at all. I don't ⁓ Jacob Litton: But if you're a team looking for top talent, mean, chances are you're probably picking towards, or if you're team looking for a top quarterback, chances are you're picking towards the top of the draft anyway. So then you've got your option. Do we pay this guy a bunch of money and bring him in and see what he's got? Or do we just draft the player that we have had eyes on and presumably have been scouting for a long time? Jason Harwood: Yeah. And it'd be much cheaper. Presumably gonna be much cheaper than what they're gonna sign Malik Willis. know, Jaleb Phillips is high on both lists. Linda Baum's high on both lists. Now Kyler Murray's number four on the NFL list. I think he's like in the teens or yeah, 17 on the ESPN list. So my question for you, Jacob, who do you, in either one of these lists or any free agents that maybe aren't on this list, do you have any players that you're looking at? Jacob Litton: Probably, right. I have like in-depth things that I have on here and we don't have a whole lot of time anymore to go in depth, but I'll start just like quick with the positions that I have. Linebacker, you know, we're not bringing Anzaloni back. presumably we're not bringing Anzaloni back. We'll see that's still obviously on the table, but let's say that we're not. The other linebackers that are on here, you're going to be paying just as much or more than Anzaloni. The interesting one for me on here is Leo Chanel from Kansas City. Jason Harwood: Okay. Mm-hmm. Jacob Litton: So his projected contract will be six million a year. And that's somebody that has played really well, but in a very limited capacity. So, you know, he's younger, he's faster. Is that somebody that you bring in? He's got good pass rush ability. You know, do you bring somebody in like that? And then also, is that somebody that you want to replace Alex Anzaloni? other sleeper pick Quincy Williams from the Jets. I mean, a terrible year last year, but I mean, just last the year before that and the year before that he's like all pro level and that's somebody that potentially you could get for maybe five or six million a year. So those sleeper picks I think are more likely than right some of the top linebackers like Devin Lloyd the Jaguars linebacker that would be huge to get somebody like that but obviously we're not going to be able to spend 15 20 million on Devin Lloyd. Jason Harwood: Mm-hmm. Yep. Prove it deal or something like that. Yep. Yeah. I would like, you know, when I looked at it, I was like a pass rush linebacker is what we need. I like Alex is a really good cover, but if we're going to continue playing the defense, we have them sending linebackers. We need someone that could pass rush from back there. So like a Kate and Ellis would be a cheaper option than a Devin Lloyd. So like that's someone that I would, I'd be looking at. I don't know if we're going to go there, but that's if we're going to go in the linebacker room and you know, we're not going to bring Alex back. Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: want someone that can, I would rather have someone that could rush the passer that could get in there. Cause that's just, that's how, Shep has wanted to play. You know, he's been wanting to rush the linebackers in the last year. just, you know, may have gotten pressures, but they were so late that they just did not affect the play. So I wanted someone that can get there quickly if we're going to play the same style defense. Now they could change things around. And then in that case, I don't think a linebacker as, as needy, if we. Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: you know, get some more pressure up the middle from defensive tackle or an edge, you know, depending on how they want to play. So is there any edges that you're interested in that list? Do you got any edges on your list? Jacob Litton: There's a few of them, but my thing is, you know, it's always about the money and where does it fit? Trey Hendrickson right now projected to get like a 21 million a year contract. So obviously that's high. That's not, you know, that's not something that we're going to be willing to do, especially for his age and everything. However, you've got some people further down like Quiddy Pay for Michigan, you know, went to Indianapolis. That's somebody that maybe nine, $10 million a year. And that's also somebody that, you know, could be power. Jason Harwood: Yes. Jacob Litton: sets the edge and kind of does what the Lions want him to do. You also have the veteran Cameron Jordan out there. You know, could probably get him on a one year deal. Maybe he's a little bit more fresh than like, I know Khalil Max name has been thrown out there a lot, but you know. Kalevan Chesan is on there. That's somebody that's been very up and down and somebody that's probably looking to get paid. So I don't envision that happening. The Seahawks guy, Boye Mafay, also somebody that's going to be getting paid. He's probably going to price himself out of us. I do have two sleeper picks for edge that I think could be effective without breaking the bank. The Falcons player, Arnold Ebakady. So that's somebody who I think is just coming off his rookie deal. He was kind of pushed out because the Falcons got James Pierce and because they, you know, enhance other edge rushers. That's somebody we could maybe be getting for a steal or because of James Pierce ruining it. That could be somebody that now the Falcons are trying to get and pay. And then Arden Key out of Tennessee for the Titans. That's somebody else that's been kind of up and down that you could maybe get on a cheaper deal without having to guarantee a whole lot. Jason Harwood: . Yeah. Yep. And that's probably where the lines are looking there too. The quiddy pay one is interested of all the edges that are in that top list. He's the guy that fits what the lines want the most on that. Like he's not going to give you a ton of pass rush, but he's going to set the edge. do exactly, you know, he's super strong and he's going to do exactly what the lines like. I'm going to sheltered right. It is the only other, ⁓ defensive lineman that I have on my list that that just someone to think about. He gives you a little bit of pass rush. He's not going to break the bank obviously. And he's probably going to be on a, you one or two year deal. you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna have to sign a big contract. I want to talk about offensive lineman. just have to kind of McGovern is my guy. Like if we sign this guy, we get get him from Buffalo, then I think center set and I'm happy with it. As long as we're not breaking the market, which Lindemann is going to set the market. And I think McGovern, it could be wait till Lindemann signs and then McGovern goes and gets a deal just below that. But I'm hoping that the lines are in the market for him. And that would make, if we get him, I'll be pretty happy with free agency, to be honest with you. I'll be like, okay, we've, we've set the interior of our line. I mean, obviously I want to get other players or secondary players, but if that's the frontline player that we get, I'll, I'll, I'll actually be pretty happy with that. The other dark horse candidate that I have that could we sign Kevin's Eilert, could Zyler come back and they move Tate over to center. Jacob Litton: Yeah. Jason Harwood: Could Zeitler be, you know, come back and play right guard and then, you know, if they decide they're going to move Tate over to center, that would be my dark horse candidate. Jacob Litton: Zitler is also like 35, 36 now. It did not have the best year last year. You'd be hoping he'd be able to recreate what he did for us the year before that. Agreed though, I've got Conor McGovern on top of my list also. That would be a run signing in my opinion. Also, you've got the aspect. Lindabom right now is projected to get 20 million, maybe even more than that on an average annual value. Jason Harwood: Exactly. Jacob Litton: So if you're Conor McGovern, if you're waiting for Linderbaum to sign his contract so that you can try to get as close to his contract as possible, maybe you then price yourself out of what the Lions are comfortable paying you. Because right now his projected is about 12 or 13 million. Let's say Linderbaum signs for 22, maybe that 12 or 13 for McGovern being the top center on the market and the Bears and other teams looking for a center, that 12 or 13 maybe becomes 15, 16. know, like I said, don't want a bidding war. Jason Harwood: Yep. Jacob Litton: There's some interesting guards on this list too though, like Isaac Somalo from Pittsburgh. available. ⁓ Edwards, who is a guard from the Bills. He's out there. And then Elijah Vera Tucker, who is the guard for the Jets, who ⁓ top 10 player when he's healthy, but keeps having these season ending injuries. And I know that's not what Lions fans want to hear is that here's another injury prone player. But I mean, somebody like that. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: that has good production with healthy, maybe he would be willing to sign a one year deal to come to Detroit. Obviously he's been playing for the Jets for so long. He doesn't know what winning football is like. If he has that sort of opportunity here in Detroit, maybe he'd be willing to sign like a one year deal and we could just see what he has. You know, maybe not a lot guaranteed. Who knows based on what he's put on the field, somebody may be willing to pay him that, you know, 15 million a year or something like that, but that's just somebody else that had my eye on. Jason Harwood: Ha ha ha. I don't know how many other people you have on your list. have, I just have two more. I went to the, I looked at running backs because obviously we have an opening now when we could go in the draft or whatever. the two names that I, Aaron Jones has, I don't think it's officially been released yet, but Aaron Jones is a, you know, a one B to, um, Gibbs. I find very interesting. Uh, I would be, I don't know what he's got to sign for, but I bet you it's going be comparable to David Montgomery money. Um, and so. Jacob Litton: Mm-hmm. Jason Harwood: Like I'm curious about that. other guy that's, that's a free agent this year, um, played with the guy that was drafted with Jumeir Gibbs. That's Tyler Altier that, you know, he is that big back that, you know, you you need some, you need a few yards or you could give it to him. Uh, and he's, you know, he's been a running mate with Bijan now, now maybe Tyler wants to go to a place where he's not next to a Bijan Robinson or Gibbs and. you know, maybe he's looking for that opportunity, but he would be someone that if we could get for a reasonable amount, I'd be, I'd be interested in him. Jacob Litton: Yeah. you know, I looked through the running backs. The Aaron Jones thing is very interesting. If he's willing to sign. And I know I think said this to you too, but I mean, if he wants to sign so that he can play the Vikings and can play the Packers, let him come like, you know, if he's not trying to break the bank, if he's okay with signing, you know, Hey, little bit of money. Let me beat up on these guys. Let me be the one B fill the David Montgomery role. Honestly, that's probably a better situation for him too, because he's trying to get healthy, right? He's trying to stay healthy. He's trying not to get beat up like that. So it might be the perfect, perfect situation for Aaron Jones to come here. But when I look at these other running backs, none of them are really doing it for me. Tyler Algier would be cool, but like you kind of just said, he's been in the shadow of Bijan for so long. I'm sure he wants to see what's out there to try to get some more carries. He does not want to go, you know. Jason Harwood: Exactly. Jacob Litton: Bijon and Jamir get compared so much about who's better, who's better, who's the top one. There's no way he wants to come back up Jamir Gibbs. That's not what he's looking for right now. you know, the other running backs are available. I just don't see a comparable David Montgomery or somebody that would be willing to sign, you know, there are people further down this list, I think are more likely but nobody that will replicate what David Montgomery had. The only other position that I had a couple of people mentioned on Jason Harwood: Yep. Jacob Litton: is safety. And that's just because I want to try to see who is out there. mean, Brian Cook is the top safety available and he's projected to get 12 million a year. He's out of KC. Cameron Curl from the Rams projected to get 8 million a year and then Kevin Byard from the Bears, 9 million. It'd be nice to steal Byard away from the Bears, but I also don't feel like he's going to, you know, I don't feel like he's going to be able to do what he did last year. Jason Harwood: Okay, yeah, that's a thought. Yeah, interceptions are tough and especially the way I saw the very flukey interceptions, they kind of just what I thought fell to them. Brisk are for the bears is also free agents of both of the safety starting safeties for the bears are free agents this year. But yeah, safety was a spot that I looked and I didn't see anybody on the list that I was like, Oh, yeah, I really want to have this guy. We definitely need Jacob Litton: Yeah, right, right. Jason Harwood: some safety help back there. We need to have a contingency plan. We need to have guys ready play in case branch or, know, ⁓ Kirby's not to go. It's whether, you know, how much do we want to spend on this player? Cause you know, obviously you don't want to go frontline and then you got Kirby, but I think next year, you know, it's going to be a tough year because you're going to know a lot more about Kirby and Kirby may be subject to being out. And then in that case, you're really going to have to sign a safety. So do you sign? Like is there a developmental safety that's out there that, know, you could get them on the roster now, develop him and, know, maybe he gets some playing time because Kirby can't go and then we'll know next year, whether we want to keep this guy or not. So it'll be interesting what they do. And I definitely expect safety, um, also spine, signed safety, whether it'll be next week or like, you know, the second or third round of free agency, you know, as you know, Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: the less desirable guys get out there and you get the more reasonable contracts, it'll be interesting to see. But we, I'd be shocked if we don't bring a safety or two in. Yeah. Jacob Litton: We have to. It's just like you said, I looked at, you know, some of the top guys out there, none of them are really doing it for me and they're all going to be expensive more so than we're willing to, you know, for what we're hoping, you know, a little bit later in the season, it's going to be a third safety that is a rotational piece. So, you know, I do have one more thing on here though. So I want to know, I don't know if you have this in front of you, if you've looked into this, do you think that there are any free agents from Arizona that want to follow Petsing and come here? Jason Harwood: Yeah. Jacob Litton: Do you think petzing has some people? I've got a list right here. ⁓ But do you have anybody? Yeah. Jason Harwood: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ if you got a list, can I, I just have one name. ⁓ and I'll let you do your list. So sorry if I take someone from the wide receiver, it, is it Dorch or what's the wide receiver? Yeah. Okay. Dorch. Cause I think he plays special teams as far as I know he plays special teams. So like you're looking for someone for Khalif like, yes, that would be like the plugin for Khalif. So that's, that's what I'm thinking. Now I'm sure there's some offensive linemen that's probably on your list, but I'll let you. Jacob Litton: No, no, no, it's... Yes, Greg Dortch, Jason Harwood: because that's a good topic. I'm glad you brought that up. Jacob Litton: Right. Dorch, really small receiver, fast, exact like you just said, would be like a replacement for Khalif, not somebody like if we're keeping Khalif, it wouldn't make sense to have somebody like that ⁓ there. I just have a list of people I think were most likely not necessarily who I think is going to because I've got a lot of them on there. So the running for the Cardinals that are free agents, Bam Knight, who was with the Lions in twenty twenty three, but you know, he just spent time with the Cardinals. Michael Carter. Jason Harwood: ⁓ yeah. Jacob Litton: And then the running back Emory DeMarcato. Those are three running backs that were in Arizona. You know, there's a chance that Jason Harwood: Well, isn't Jay, did you say you didn't say James Connor? Did you? Cause there's, there's rumors of him. There's rumors of him being cut. So like that's another one you could throw on. Yes. ⁓ Jacob Litton: I did not say James Connor. I don't know if he's still under contract. OK, he's not a current free agent. So he wasn't on the list. Which, mean, obviously somebody like that would be huge. That would be a really good get. But somebody that also is probably looking for money, whereas DiMarcato, somebody like that, probably willing to play for less and just the chance opportunity to play for the Lions and be part of a better offense. The offensive lineman that they have, offensive tackle Jonah Williams, offensive tackle Kelvin Beauchamp. Jason Harwood: Yes. Yep. Jacob Litton: offensive guard, Will Hernandez. All three of these guys were rated pretty low last year. You know, I don't know if it's just how the Cardinals offense was going or if it really was just their performance. So nobody that's like, ⁓ man, I hope this person comes. But there are offensive linemen that are free agents that are familiar with Petsing that may come could even be training camp bodies or just come with no promise, but you know, an offer to compete. Jason Harwood: Yep. Jacob Litton: And then they've got two tight ends here, ⁓ Pharaoh Brown and Josiah Deguara, who are both, you know, primarily blocking a little bit of receiving, but I mean, also people that could follow him and be camp bodies and try to fight for a roster spot. There is not a Sam Laporta clone out there. So Jason Harwood: Yeah. No, well, Trey McBride is not coming. Arizona's not going to let him go. Jacob Litton: Yeah, no, not a free agent, right? Jason Harwood: Yeah. No. yeah, I, it'll be interesting. Dorch is like, that's the only one that I've, when I've looked through the list, that's the only one I've like, okay, I could see him in Honolulu blue if Khalifa isn't here. Like that's going to be, that'd be the only caveat. Like I don't think he comes here unless that happens. All right, man. Uh, anything before we, we take off here, it's going to be good. we're next, next week will be a busy day of looking at Twitter. Jacob Litton: Yeah. No, nope, I'm good. Yeah. Jason Harwood: ⁓ I'm Monday, right? You know, just staring and I'm expecting a lot of text flying between us, ⁓ which will be fun. That's always a good time. I just don't like to see if, I hope I don't see any one word swear text from you, because that'll be that the bear signed someone ⁓ you know, someone that you want to went somewhere else, but it'll be ⁓ Jacob Litton: Right? Hang on, we got a question in the chat. I don't know if you saw that. Jason Harwood: ⁓ yes, yeah, thanks, yeah. Go ahead. Jacob Litton: Hang on one second. So WM2, yes. Any thoughts on the defensive tackle the Vikings just released? So you kind of mentioned this earlier, the Vikings have been forced to cut a lot of players and you know, which we knew they're way over the cap. This was expected, but you know, Vikings announced that they're expected to release defensive tackle Jonathan Allen. He signed for, let's ⁓ $16 million last year. Jason Harwood: I'll show it. Jacob Litton: Is that somebody that you want? Obviously we're, you know, it seems like DJ Reader is not going to be coming back. We have Tyleak, we have Aleem. What are your thoughts on? Jason Harwood: Yeah. ⁓ I'm okay with him, but we're not probably not for the price that we'd have to pay for him. That's it's it's what it is. Like do you why him? Yeah. Cause he can get up to field, right? And he could provide some pressure. but you know, Tyleek's gotta be, it's going to be a Liam and Tyleek and you're hoping that Liam has the big rebound year. I just, I don't see that happening. ⁓ you know, not for the money. I am happy that Minnesota has to keep cutting players though. ⁓ makes me very, very, very happy. ⁓ Jacob Litton: Right, right. Yes, just the whole team whittle them down. But yeah, that's somebody else on the surface. Yeah, great. You know, not I guess maybe not great anymore. He's a good player, good depth. But somebody like that is probably still looking for, you know, 10 plus million a year. And that's not something the Lions are willing to that's just not in the cards. Jason Harwood: Yeah. And I don't even know if they, he exactly plays how the Alliance want him interior guys to play. ⁓ you know, I don't know. They, they want them to stuff to run and just take up space. Like Tyler's going to do that. A Liam can do that, but they, know, Liam's going to be the guy that they hope they can get up the field. I'm hoping they, he looks more like the game that when he came back to the first game and that was with Tampa Bay last year and he looked, he was getting right in the quarterback and we're like, all right. Jacob Litton: Right. Jason Harwood: But we just really didn't see Alim do that. Now, part of that was that we had him play down on the edge, which still irks me to this day. yeah, exactly. So all right, man, baseball starting soon. Kevin McGonigal, I got to talk to you about Kevin McGonigal. This guy's going to make the team, right? He's got to make it right out of spring training. Jacob Litton: We got to fix that. he 100 % has earned that roster spot. I have not, you know, we talked a little bit, cause I know that before in the past, like they had to wait like 15 days or something to add them to the roster to get like that extra year of service time. And you said that that's not the case or the language in the contracts is different now or? Jason Harwood: Yeah. Well, they've changed it. like there's some sort of incentive to the team did not do that. And I don't know what it is. And I should have looked it up because what I think it was like during work. Jacob Litton: I know if they, cause they're eligible for like post season awards and I know that if they win like a gold glove or silver slugger or like if they win any or rookie of the year, maybe it's like top five. Like if they win anything like that, then it doesn't matter. They still get that year anyway. That's the way it used to be, I think. But yeah, I don't know what the change is now, but I guess we'll, you know what mean? Jason Harwood: Okay. Okay. I don't think the lines are, or the Tigers are going to be in a position to like not put them on the team. In fact, what I, what I'm seeing, what's going to happen the way I see it is that Parker Meadows is not going to make the team. Javi Baez is going to be our starting center fielder and McGonigal is going to be our shortstop. That's how I see this happening. That's how I see it happening. now they've had McGonigal over at third base, but Jacob Litton: That's how you envision this happening. Jason Harwood: So, you know, the Tigers like to move people around. They like to get everybody on the field. getting him multiple so that when Javi plays shortstop, then McGonigal moves over to third base. Colt Keith is another guy. We got Gleyber Torres back here. You know, your doppelganger, Gleyber Torres, right? And we got him back. Jacob Litton: Yeah, right? ⁓ Jason Harwood: And so that'll be interesting because that like if Gleyber didn't come back, then you think Colt Keith goes into the second spot. Well, I don't know. They got Colt Keith playing over at third base, and I think they played him at first base a little bit last year, too. Jace Young's playing over at first base. going to be I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see how this goes up. Jacob Litton: What do write? I was just gonna say, don't exactly know how the opening day line-up is gonna look. Jason Harwood: Now Max has looked a little bit overmatched. He's had some troubles and set, you know, he blew a ball yesterday and set her field. lost a couple in the sun. he's not going to be making the jump this year. McGonagall. I mean, what was awesome yesterday is that leadoff home run on the first pitch. And that's against Severino. This is about, you know, a good pitcher, you know, it's not like ⁓ he's there. It gets AAA pitchers is bombing it. You know, it was a first pitch. He smoked that. Jacob Litton: Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Jason Harwood: And then he got a two run single the very next at bat, like solid stroke, got a great bat. He's already got a good eye. Like he sees pitches, like he's exactly what you, what you want. you know, anything that give us more offense would be, would be, be awesome. So I, I'm thinking that, yeah, the only way he doesn't make the team is if there is some of those service time shenanigans, but I'm pretty sure they've incentivized the team to do that. Jacob Litton: please. Right, right. Jason Harwood: to not play those games. I don't know. ⁓ Jacob Litton: That seems like a weird loophole that they would put in to begin with, like a 15 day window. Like, I mean, why 15? That what, you know, what is that? That's almost like putting a safeguard for these teams to steal a year out of these players. Jason Harwood: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ It is, it's exactly right. like, I gotta say, bet if, you know, whatever's in place, they're, I think they negotiate next year, like the, or at the end of this year, like December and the new CBA and all that's going to change. And I, and they're talking about a salary cap and I, I hope that a salary cap happens. I, just. Jacob Litton: the CPA or whatever. They need a salary cap and they need these deferred payments and all this stuff is ridiculous. Jason Harwood: Yeah. They need to get rid of all that crap. And I know that, you know, sailor caps not perfect. And we talk about in the NFL or whatever, but the fact that the Dodgers can go out and sign Kyle Tucker to money after they just win the world series and have like a crazy, they already have an all star lineup. And then they had Kyle Tucker, the best free agent on the market. Jacob Litton: And then you have to, you pay him like $3 million this year because all of his money is deferred later on. Like all your contracts are deferred. What is that? Jason Harwood: Yeah, I, I, yeah, it's, it's gotta end and it's, ⁓ and I know the players may not want to sell our captures because it's going to get out these, you know, big tenure, $300 million deals, but you got to also think about the health of the game and you can't just have five teams in it every year. And the rest of us are, have to get lucky and draft really well, or just, you know, everything lines up because Jacob Litton: Right. Right. Jason Harwood: You look at what's happening with scuba. We're just, we're going to be priced out of them because Dodgers or Yankees are going to pay crazy, crazy amounts. So, all right, man, we've talked about the tigers. We talked about the lions, Pistons are lost last game, so we could skip them and the red wings, you know, they just got back from the Olympics. So ⁓ they are, you know, I know. All right, man. Well, did they lose? They blew it then. Jacob Litton: Right. That's okay. They're blowing it right now. ⁓ they did. They lost. Over time, in the last five minutes, they were going overtime. They blew it. They tied it. And now the Vegas won in overtime. Must have been pretty quickly. Jason Harwood: Ugh. Hopefully they get on a good streak there. Larkin tasted gold so I want him to taste the Stanley Cup too. That'd be sweet. Alright, for Jacob, I'm Jason. We'll get back with you next week. I anticipate us be on Wednesday. However, something huge happens. You might hear from us earlier. So we'll see how that goes. So thing to say though, go ⁓ Jacob Litton: Yeah, right. Man.