Allen: Welcome back to the SCC Saver podcast. I'm Alan, one of your co hosts, and joined with the OG, The Mist, the Lord of Board Gaming, Overlord of Board Gaming. Yes. Now turned British. Yes. That's right, mate. Cheers, everyone. Hello, Govna. Is that British? What? Is that British? Well, it's weird because there's a lot of types of British accents. okay.

Jeramie: Welcome back to the SCC Saver podcast. I'm Alan, one of your co hosts, and joined with the OG, The Mist, the Lord of Board Gaming, Overlord of Board Gaming. Yes. Now turned British. Yes. That's right, mate. Cheers, everyone. Hello, Govna. Is that British? What? Is that British? Well, it's weird because there's a lot of types of British accents. okay.

Allen: You know, like that's the thing, you think of a British act well anyway, for those of you who just tuning in, I just got back from vacation in the UK with my family, which was great. But yeah, you know, it's funny because just like in America, you're like, Well, there's the American accent. Well, Southern, Midwest, Texas, Maine. and the same thing over there. As you move through England, there's different variations of the English accent. So but you just can't help it. It's like being in the South. You just find yourself like drawing. Yeah. Same thing. When you're in the UK, you just

Jeramie: You know, like that's the thing, you think of a British act well anyway, for those of you who just tuning in, I just got back from vacation in the UK with my family, which was great. But yeah, you know, it's funny because just like in America, you're like, Well, there's the American accent. Well, Southern, Midwest, Texas, Maine. and the same thing over there. As you move through England, there's different variations of the English accent. So but you just can't help it. It's like being in the South. You just find yourself like drawing. Yeah. Same thing. When you're in the UK, you just

Allen: It's like, you know, human nature you start speaking in British ways. Right. Maybe not well, but you know Yeah, yeah. You were speaking in tongues. Tongue accents? I don't know. Yeah. But it's great. We love the UK. We hiked a lot. you know, there's footpaths, all public footpaths are crisscross the whole of the UK. And and we love going to British pubs and having pub food and just countryside and the people are lovely. Yeah, that's true. Lovely. Love they're lovely. Yeah. How much

Jeramie: It's like, you know, human nature you start speaking in British ways. Right. Maybe not well, but you know Yeah, yeah. You were speaking in tongues. Tongue accents? I don't know. Yeah. But it's great. We love the UK. We hiked a lot. you know, there's footpaths, all public footpaths are crisscross the whole of the UK. And and we love going to British pubs and having pub food and just countryside and the people are lovely. Yeah, that's true. Lovely. Love they're lovely. Yeah. How much

Allen: Bangers and mash did you have? I did have some bangers and mash. Shout out Sandy Beery. Last episode, yeah. We were talking about how you were gone. Yeah. And how we missed you obviously a ton. And we were talking about how he's probably eaten all that. Like, I'm like, there's something about beans and something. I'm like, I have no idea what it is, but someone does. And please let me know when you do. And Sandy Beer came up to me when he was like, It's bangers and mash. I'm like, Thank you. So you had bangers and mash? Yeah, steak and ale pie. Okay. the great dessert there is sticky toffee pudding.

Jeramie: Bangers and mash did you have? I did have some bangers and mash. Shout out Sandy Beery. Last episode, yeah. We were talking about how you were gone. Yeah. And how we missed you obviously a ton. And we were talking about how he's probably eaten all that. Like, I'm like, there's something about beans and something. I'm like, I have no idea what it is, but someone does. And please let me know when you do. And Sandy Beer came up to me when he was like, It's bangers and mash. I'm like, Thank you. So you had bangers and mash? Yeah, steak and ale pie. Okay. the great dessert there is sticky toffee pudding.

Allen: Well, desserts are called puddings. So you know, it'd be it doesn't matter. So it'd be like you're at the end of the restaurant or at the end of the meal, you're like, you know, what do you have for puddings? And they're like, and they tell you and but that yeah, the sticky toffee pudding is my favorite too. Yeah, sugar and bugler makes a mean sticky toffee pudding. Wow. and also scones or scones. Raspberry? yeah, you put clotted cream on them and then you put jelly on them and

Jeramie: Well, desserts are called puddings. So you know, it'd be it doesn't matter. So it'd be like you're at the end of the restaurant or at the end of the meal, you're like, you know, what do you have for puddings? And they're like, and they tell you and but that yeah, the sticky toffee pudding is my favorite too. Yeah, sugar and bugler makes a mean sticky toffee pudding. Wow. and also scones or scones. Raspberry? yeah, you put clotted cream on them and then you put jelly on them and

Allen: If get a good scone like that'll change your life. Really? Yeah. Well did anything surprise you out there? well, we've been there several times. you have? Yeah. Yeah, we've been there before. Well, we've never been up to the Yorkshire Dales. So one of the you know, there's a show a lot of people here watch called All Creatures Great and Small, which all takes place in the Yorkshire Dales. So we actually went up there. We actually went to the town of Grassington, which is where they set the the you know, fictional story. And my daughter is a huge fangirl of

Jeramie: If get a good scone like that'll change your life. Really? Yeah. Well did anything surprise you out there? well, we've been there several times. you have? Yeah. Yeah, we've been there before. Well, we've never been up to the Yorkshire Dales. So one of the you know, there's a show a lot of people here watch called All Creatures Great and Small, which all takes place in the Yorkshire Dales. So we actually went up there. We actually went to the town of Grassington, which is where they set the the you know, fictional story. And my daughter is a huge fangirl of

Allen: All creatures great and small. And she just fangirled out, like taking pictures all around Grassington. Wow. So it was really I I think maybe Sarah Jane told me you guys walk like eight miles one day or something. Yeah. Like almost like our day. Like our step count every day would be like almost like 30,000. Whoa. Cause you just walk everywhere and we'd hock walk all these trails. It was great. Wow. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. Great experience. And so but I missed the church. It was really great to be back. I'll tell you what, I came back to church on Sunday.

Jeramie: All creatures great and small. And she just fangirled out, like taking pictures all around Grassington. Wow. So it was really I I think maybe Sarah Jane told me you guys walk like eight miles one day or something. Yeah. Like almost like our day. Like our step count every day would be like almost like 30,000. Whoa. Cause you just walk everywhere and we'd hock walk all these trails. It was great. Wow. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. Great experience. And so but I missed the church. It was really great to be back. I'll tell you what, I came back to church on Sunday.

Allen: And I had worship at all these different churches, you know, over there. They're all great. But the best worship I had was here at SCC when I came back. The liturgy, the elders' prayers, the music, the Teddy's sermon was just I think his best yet. Yeah. So it was great. It was great to come it's great to go away and it's great to come home. And I love the state of Florida and I love Sanibel Community Church. That's great, man. Praise God. I'll tell you something that common multiple numerous people told me.

Jeramie: And I had worship at all these different churches, you know, over there. They're all great. But the best worship I had was here at SCC when I came back. The liturgy, the elders' prayers, the music, the Teddy's sermon was just I think his best yet. Yeah. So it was great. It was great to come it's great to go away and it's great to come home. And I love the state of Florida and I love Sanibel Community Church. That's great, man. Praise God. I'll tell you something that common multiple numerous people told me.

Allen: when you were gone, which is just really cool testimony of your your faithfulness and leadership is he's like, Hey, Jeremy can go away for an extended period of time and nothing skips a beat, everything's great, all the all the pastors are great and leading and things just carry on, ministry goes on. So just yeah, this testimony of your of your faithfulness and raising up a team. So we're thankful. We're really blessed with we have such a great pastoral team here. I mean, Teddy, Bobby, Chris are

Jeramie: when you were gone, which is just really cool testimony of your your faithfulness and leadership is he's like, Hey, Jeremy can go away for an extended period of time and nothing skips a beat, everything's great, all the all the pastors are great and leading and things just carry on, ministry goes on. So just yeah, this testimony of your of your faithfulness and raising up a team. So we're thankful. We're really blessed with we have such a great pastoral team here. I mean, Teddy, Bobby, Chris are

Allen: Exceptional pastors. Yeah. They're for especially for their age. Like they're exceptional. Yeah. And and also, I mean, you know, but I mean the way we we decide things is we do it collaboratively. So it's not like I don't I don't lead the pastoral team like I'm the boss, right, and you guys are here to execute my orders. Like we're collaborative, we discuss things. So I can step out and they're all you know, we're working in a very flat

Jeramie: Exceptional pastors. Yeah. They're for especially for their age. Like they're exceptional. Yeah. And and also, I mean, you know, but I mean the way we we decide things is we do it collaboratively. So it's not like I don't I don't lead the pastoral team like I'm the boss, right, and you guys are here to execute my orders. Like we're collaborative, we discuss things. So I can step out and they're all you know, we're working in a very flat

Allen: way organizationally and so I I really think, you know, organizations in churches need to be more flat. Yeah. With with elders and pastors being equal discussing together. So I love to give away authority and give away yeah let other people do things. Yeah. I just think that's long term healthy for a church. Yeah. It's totally healthy. And you know, the whole staff is blessed for it and great and congregations. It's not just the pastor. No, yeah. But the admin team, the you know everybody, Brody, yeah, the crush facility with the dude with the most us. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeramie: way organizationally and so I I really think, you know, organizations in churches need to be more flat. Yeah. With with elders and pastors being equal discussing together. So I love to give away authority and give away yeah let other people do things. Yeah. I just think that's long term healthy for a church. Yeah. It's totally healthy. And you know, the whole staff is blessed for it and great and congregations. It's not just the pastor. No, yeah. But the admin team, the you know everybody, Brody, yeah, they're crushed facility with the dude with the most us. Yeah. Yeah.

Allen: Anyway, I could go on on bragging about my stuff. That's that's a good sign. Let's get into it, huh? Yeah. Where are we at? Yeah. we're in a new month, month eight, days one through six. So we're gonna be commenting on the first eight chapters of Ezra. We got three three new books. Ezra, first six eight chapters, Proverbs, a f a fan funny enough, a favorite.

Jeramie: Anyway, I could go on on bragging about my stuff. That's that's a good sign. Let's get into it, huh? Yeah. Where are we at? Yeah. we're in a new month, month eight, days one through six. So we're gonna be commenting on the first eight chapters of Ezra. We got three three new books. Ezra, first six eight chapters, Proverbs, a f a fan funny enough, a favorite.

Allen: Seems to be of everyone, even like non-Christians. It's like you can read it and like get with them like this is really good. Yeah. Yeah. first six first first six Proverbs, First Timothy one through four, and then Luke 13, one through fourteen thirty-five. So where we're picking up Israel's Old Testament history. Yeah. At the end of Second Chronicles, right? They were they were shipped off into exile. They were carried in carried out by the Babylonians.

Jeramie: Seems to be of everyone, even like non-Christians. It's like you can read it and like get with them like this is really good. Yeah. Yeah. first six first first six Proverbs, First Timothy one through four, and then Luke 13, one through fourteen thirty-five. So where we're picking up Israel's Old Testament history. Yeah. At the end of Second Chronicles, right? They were they were shipped off into exile. They were carried in carried out by the Babylonians.

Allen: for their disobedience and mm it was part of the curse for their disobedience is the Lord allowed them to be exiled. And so now they're in exile and we're about you know, if it says like fifty years now into exile and then we have this new story with Ezra. So what's going on with Ezra in the book of Ezra? That's right. So Ezra won one in the first year of Cyrus, king of Persia.

Jeramie: for their disobedience and mm it was part of the curse for their disobedience is the Lord allowed them to be exiled. And so now they're in exile and we're about you know, if it says like fifty years now into exile and then we have this new story with Ezra. So what's going on with Ezra in the book of Ezra? That's right. So Ezra won one in the first year of Cyrus, king of Persia.

Allen: The word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremite be fulfilled. The Lord stirred the heart of Cyrus, king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout his all king through his kingdom. And basically he says the Jews may return and rebuild the temple. which interestingly, for several centuries, modern scholars wondered if this really happened, but then they discovered this thing called the Cyrus Cylinder, which actually has this decree on it.

Jeramie: The word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremite be fulfilled. The Lord stirred the heart of Cyrus, king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout his all king through his kingdom. And basically he says the Jews may return and rebuild the temple. which interestingly, for several centuries, modern scholars wondered if this really happened, but then they discovered this thing called the Cyrus Cylinder, which actually has this decree on it.

Allen: From five thirty nine BC. And when I was in London, I was at the British Museum and I literally stood right there, eight inches away from the Cyrus cylinder. Is that right? Yeah, just looked at it and kind of was like, This is the cylinder they found that recorded this event. So five thirty-nine BC, the Jews are allowed to return to Jerusalem because the Persians have taken over the Babylonians. So really Ezra is the story of the beginning of

Jeramie: From five thirty nine BC. And when I was in London, I was at the British Museum and I literally stood right there, eight inches away from the Cyrus cylinder. Is that right? Yeah, just looked at it and kind of was like, This is the cylinder they found that recorded this event. So five thirty-nine BC, the Jews are allowed to return to Jerusalem because the Persians have taken over the Babylonians. So really Ezra is the story of the beginning of

Allen: the the the Jewish return to Jerusalem and y and really the focus is on that first wave of exiles who returned. Yep. And and the focus is on rebuilding the temple. so they, you know, they lay the altar, they start rebuilding the temple, then they get opposed, you know, which is interesting. No matter in what context you're doing the Lord's work, there's always opposition. Yeah. You know, sometimes it comes from within, sometimes it comes from without

Jeramie: the the the Jewish return to Jerusalem and y and really the focus is on that first wave of exiles who returned. Yep. And and the focus is on rebuilding the temple. so they, you know, they lay the altar, they start rebuilding the temple, then they get opposed, you know, which is interesting. No matter in what context you're doing the Lord's work, there's always opposition. Yeah. You know, sometimes it comes from within, sometimes it comes from without

Allen: But if you're gonna serve Jesus or do the work of the Lord or proclaim the gospel, like don't be surprised when adversaries arise and and people push back. I mean it's just it's the nature of gospel work. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That that raises an interesting question, I think, out of out of Ezra's like of course there's opposition and I think one of actually maybe the themes in Ezra Ezra is that the L the Lord uses these secular kings 'cause you know, not God fears, they're not worshiping the God of Israel, they're not

Jeramie: But if you're gonna serve Jesus or do the work of the Lord or proclaim the gospel, like don't be surprised when adversaries arise and and people push back. I mean it's just it's the nature of gospel work. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That that raises an interesting question, I think, out of out of Ezra's like of course there's opposition. And I think one of actually maybe the themes in Ezra Ezra is that the l the Lord uses these secular kings 'cause you know, not God fears, they're not worshiping the God of Israel, they're not

Allen: you know, his people by heritage or nature, but the Lord using these secular kings, kings, king of Persia to allow his people to come back and to worship him. So I think that's interesting is how one of the themes is the Lord uses all types of secular, even non non God fearing means to bring about his good for his people. Yeah. Proverbs twenty three, one, we'll get to that eventually. The heart of the Lord or the heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord. Mm-hmm.

Jeramie: you know, his people by heritage or nature, but the Lord using these secular kings, kings, king of Persia to allow his people to come back and to worship him. So I think that's interesting is how one of the themes is the Lord uses all types of secular, even non non God fearing means to bring about his good for his people. Yeah. Proverbs twenty three, one, we'll get to that eventually. The heart of the Lord or the heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord. Mm-hmm.

Allen: He directs it like a water course wherever he wishes. And again, Ezra one one, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus. So God is sovereignly using these pagan kings. and and like you said, it's not that Cyrus became a a God fearing Jew, but he was kind of like a shotgun approach. He was like, I want all the exiles in this place to go back to their temples and pray to all their gods so that whoever the right God is will bless me. Like it was kind of like like hedging all his bets.

Jeramie: He directs it like a water course wherever he wishes. And again, Ezra one one, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus. So God is sovereignly using these pagan kings. and and like you said, it's not that Cyrus became a a God fearing Jew, but he was kind of like a shotgun approach. He was like, I want all the exiles in this place to go back to their temples and pray to all their gods so that whoever the right God is will bless me. Like it was kind of like like hedging all his bets.

Allen: Right. but whatever, God used that sovereignly and he put Cyrus in place and so and it was all to accomplish his word through Jeremiah. So yeah, it's a picture of God's sovereignty. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's a comfort for God's people is you when this when things nowadays seem out of control, yeah, out of hand, and you w you want people to turn to the Lord and serve him and and act justice and you're like, These things don't happen. Yeah. But you're like

Jeramie: Right. but whatever, God used that sovereignly and he put Cyrus in place and so and it was all to accomplish his word through Jeremiah. So yeah, it's a picture of God's sovereignty. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's a comfort for God's people is you when this when things nowadays seem out of control, yeah, out of hand, and you w you want people to turn to the Lord and serve him and and act justice and you're like, These things don't happen. Yeah. But you're like

Allen: You don't have to fret that, like, hey, this is at this is at hand. God God's will is just blown up in his face. He has no idea, like, what is he gonna do? It's like, no, that's not God's people. Yeah, you know, brothers and sisters, you have to remember that the sovereignty of God, his control is comprehensive. It is down to the smallest detail, you know, like Jesus said, not a sparrow falls to the ground apart from the will of my father. That's right.

Jeramie: You don't have to fret that, like, hey, this is at this is at hand. God God's will is just blown up in his face. He has no idea, like, what is he gonna do? It's like, no, that's not God's people. Yeah, you know, brothers and sisters, you have to remember that the sovereignty of God, his control is comprehensive. It is down to the smallest detail, you know, like Jesus said, not a sparrow falls to the ground apart from the will of my father. That's right.

Allen: to the greatest things like the movement of kings and leaders and world events and everything in between, even the heart, even our hearts are under his sovereign control. and then in chapter seven of Ezra, just to wrap up Ezra, that's where he actually comes on the scene. So it's interesting, the temple gets built, and then after that, Ezra leads a second wave of exiles back. And and he's really coming to teach them the law of God. So they have the temple.

Jeramie: to the greatest things like the movement of kings and leaders and world events and everything in between, even the heart, even our hearts are under his sovereign control. and then in chapter seven of Ezra, just to wrap up Ezra, that's where he actually comes on the scene. So it's interesting, the temple gets built, and then after that, Ezra leads a second wave of exiles back. And and he's really coming to teach them the law of God. So they have the temple.

Allen: But if they're not following God's law, the temple isn't going to save them. they need to know God's law. And I this is my favorite verse on Ezra himself is Ezra seven ten. For Ezra had set his heart to three things study the law of God, to do it, and to teach his statutes for Israel. Like that's Ezra in one verse. His heart is set. I want to know the word, I want to do the word, and then I want to teach the word.

Jeramie: But if they're not following God's law, the temple isn't going to save them. they need to know God's law. And I this is my favorite verse on Ezra himself is Ezra seven ten. For Ezra had set his heart to three things study the law of God, to do it, and to teach his statutes for Israel. Like that's Ezra in one verse. His heart is set. I want to know the word, I want to do the word, and then I want to teach the word.

Allen: And that's that was his ministry. It's just like he he was there to bring the word of God and the scriptures to bear on God's people. Because having the temple is pointless if you're not obeying the scriptures. Yeah, that's right. I think there's maybe three three things that as I was reading this whole section and kind of pulled out as as we'll as we'll talk about is one is the Bibles talk about the Bible. Yeah. It's just like it's the law of the Lord. Do things according to the law of the Lord. Do it, teach it, study it.

Jeramie: And that's that was his ministry. It's just like he he was there to bring the word of God and the scriptures to bear on God's people. Because having the temple is pointless if you're not obeying the scriptures. Yeah, that's right. I think there's maybe three three things that as I was reading this whole section and kind of pulled out as as we'll as we'll talk about is one is the Bibles talk about the Bible. Yeah. It's just like it's the law of the Lord. Do things according to the law of the Lord. Do it, teach it, study it.

Allen: And so like the Bible's always directing us back to the Bible. Yep. and then Because it's God's word. Because it's God's word. That's right. and then secondly, I think, like a little through through line, right? It's where where Ezra's he's set to teach the people and doing it. And in First Timothy, that's what we're gonna see with elders and elder qualifications and pastors of the church is that they're s to be an example to do the law and to teach the law, right? It's no interestingly God's leaders are always you could say feeders.

Jeramie: And so like the Bible's always directing us back to the Bible. Yep. and then Because it's God's word. Because it's God's word. That's right. and then secondly, I think, like a little through through line, right? It's where where Ezra's he's set to teach the people and doing it. And in First Timothy, that's what we're gonna see with elders and elder qualifications and pastors of the church is that they're s to be an example to do the law and to teach the law, right? It's no interestingly God's leaders are always you could say feeders.

Allen: They're always feeding God's people the word. You know, who are the leaders in the old testament? The priests who taught the law, the king of Israel who was supposed to write a scroll of the law so he would keep it. He had to be a man of the word. That's right. And of course, prophets spoke the word of God. And in the New Testament, who are the leaders of the church? The apostles, and then the elders once the apostles pass, mm-hmm. And and they're all to be teachers of the word. So really it's another way of saying

Jeramie: They're always feeding God's people the word. You know, who are the leaders in the old testament? The priests who taught the law, the king of Israel who was supposed to write a scroll of the law so he would keep it. He had to be a man of the word. That's right. And of course, prophets spoke the word of God. And in the New Testament, who are the leaders of the church? The apostles, and then the elders once the apostles pass, mm-hmm. And and they're all to be teachers of the word. So really it's another way of saying

Allen: God is the leader of his people. And the way God leads his people is through his word. And he appoints human people who hold forth the word. Right. So that it's not about the pastor or the elders, but it's the fact that they hold forth the word of God. Yeah. God will lead his people through his people by his word. Yeah, that's it. And then his spirit flows through that. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then and same thing in in in Proverbs, and maybe we can actually hop over Proverbs here. Is is again that the Bibles talk about the Bible is the the the pro Proverbs

Jeramie: God is the leader of his people. And the way God leads his people is through his word. And he appoints human people who hold forth the word. Right. So that it's not about the pastor or the elders, but it's the fact that they hold forth the word of God. Yeah. God will lead his people through his people by his word. Yeah, that's it. And then his spirit flows through that. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then and same thing in in in Proverbs, and maybe we can actually hop over Proverbs here. Is is again that the Bibles talk about the Bible is the the the pro Proverbs

Allen: At the beginning, it's to know wisdom and instruction. It's to know, to discern, to receive, to give, and to understand. Well, what is it? The the wisdom of God, the word of the Lord. And it begins with, of course, this is the beginning place of Proverbs in one seven is the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom and instruction. Yeah. If someone asked you what is wisdom, 'cause that's a that's an interesting word. How would you describe wisdom? Yeah. I think bl blank or

Jeramie: At the beginning, it's to know wisdom and instruction. It's to know, to discern, to receive, to give, and to understand. Well, what is it? The the wisdom of God, the word of the Lord. And it begins with, of course, this is the beginning place of Proverbs in one seven is the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom and instruction. Yeah. If someone asked you what is wisdom, 'cause that's a that's an interesting word. How would you describe wisdom? Yeah. I think bl blank or

Allen: Generally it'd say wisdom is God's word. That's I think a general statement. And then I think it would be his his decrees, his laws, doing things according to the way that he's prescribed them and the way that things ought to be. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's so it's kind of taking God's word and then working it out in the nitty-gritty of life. Yeah, that's right. It's applied. It's applied. It's applied wis the applied word of God. Yeah. Yeah. Applied word of God, applied knowledge. Yeah. That's right. And this is what

Jeramie: Generally it'd say wisdom is God's word. That's I think a general statement. And then I think it would be his his decrees, his laws, doing things according to the way that he's prescribed them and the way that things ought to be. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's so it's kind of taking God's word and then working it out in the nitty-gritty of life. Yeah, that's right. It's applied. It's applied. It's applied wis the applied word of God. Yeah. Yeah. Applied word of God, applied knowledge. Yeah. That's right. And this is what

Allen: Solomon is is doing. This is the proverb of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel, and he's writing, he says, Hey, take this wisdom according to God's law and according to things that he's done wrong also at the same time. Right. Then he's speaking from a from a vantage point of of having lived life, I think, here. and applying it so that And it comes it comes framed to us as a father's instruction to a son. Yeah, that's right.

Jeramie: Solomon is is doing this is the proverb of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel, and he's writing, he says, Hey, take this wisdom according to God's law and according to things that he's done wrong also at the same time. Right. Then he's speaking from a from a vantage point of of having lived life, I think, here. and applying it so that And it comes it comes framed to us as a father's instruction to a son. Yeah, that's right.

Allen: And so it it has that that doesn't mean therefore it's only applies to boys or something. But it just means that's the that's the kind of literary framework it comes to us in. And and it's interesting too, one of the themes as you read through this is you're gonna see because it's like a f a father instructing his son, is that wisdom and folly or wisdom and foolishness are kind of represented by two women. Yeah. So there's lady wisdom and there's lady folly. So it so ultimately it's kind of like, Hey son, you wanna look for a wise woman.

Jeramie: And so it it has that that doesn't mean therefore it's only applies to boys or something. But it just means that's the that's the kind of literary framework it comes to us in. And and it's interesting too, one of the themes as you read through this is you're gonna see because it's like a f a father instructing his son, is that wisdom and folly or wisdom and foolishness are kind of represented by two women. Yeah. So there's lady wisdom and there's lady folly. So it so ultimately it's kind of like, Hey son, you wanna look for a wise woman.

Allen: But you also want to look for because she will embody lady wisdom. Yeah. and so so wisdom then and you know, so like at chapter five, chapter six, you know, this is the warning against the adulterous woman. Not because it's like he's singling out like women are the problem or something like that, but because it's you know, the adulterous woman epitomizes Yeah, she's personified. Personify I think you personifies folly.

Jeramie: But you also want to look for because she will embody lady wisdom. Yeah. and so so wisdom then and you know, so like at chapter five, chapter six, you know, this is the warning against the adulterous woman. Not because it's like he's singling out like women are the problem or something like that, but because it's you know, the adulterous woman epitomizes Yeah, she's personified. Personify I think you personifies folly.

Allen: and the allure of foolishness and sin. and you know, and where does Proverbs end? The the Proverbs 31 woman that's right. You know, it's like this is the woman who embodies that. So there's a a woman who embodies foolishness in Lady Folly, which is the adulterous woman, and then the faithful woman of Proverbs thirty one. so and so and the first, you know, verse chapters are really a kind of

Jeramie: and the allure of foolishness and sin. and you know, and where does Proverbs end? The the Proverbs 31 woman that's right. You know, it's like this is the woman who embodies that. So there's a a woman who embodies foolishness in Lady Folly, which is the adulterous woman, and then the faithful woman of Proverbs thirty one. so and so and the first, you know, verse chapters are really a kind of

Allen: Calling and summons to listen to wisdom and the benefits of it. So before we actually get into the proverbs, there's this kind of like sales pitch of like this is why you need to study wisdom right for all these benefits. And also to avoid all the the the ruin of falling. Yeah. Question for you on Proverbs. If you do the things according to Proverbs, are they guaranteed to turn out in the outcome, a good outcome, favorable outcome?

Jeramie: Calling and summons to listen to wisdom and the benefits of it. So before we actually get into the proverbs, there's this kind of like sales pitch of like this is why you need to study wisdom right for all these benefits. And also to avoid all the the the ruin of falling. Yeah. Question for you on Proverbs. If you do the things according to Proverbs, are they guaranteed to turn out in the outcome, a good outcome, favorable outcome?

Allen: Yes and no. Okay. So one thing you remember is especially when we get into the proverbs themselves later, is that proverbs are not promises or prophecies. Okay. It's not like a formula. If you do this, then that will happen. Yeah. which is why, by the way, you have books like Job, because Job reminds us that the the proverbs aren't formulas. But generally speaking, if you you know, if you seek righteousness, you know, God will bless you. Certainly in in

Jeramie: Yes and no. Okay. So one thing you remember is especially when we get into the proverbs themselves later, is that proverbs are not promises or prophecies. Okay. It's not like a formula. If you do this, then that will happen. Yeah. which is why, by the way, you have books like Job, because Job reminds us that the the proverbs aren't formulas. But generally speaking, if you you know, if you seek righteousness, you know, God will bless you. Certainly in in

Allen: ultimate sense. Right. Even if your life is hard in this life as you follow righteousness, if your faith is in Christ and you fear God, in the end, in eternal life, we learn from the New Testament, we're all blessed. So proverbs become ultimately true in an eternal sense. In an eternal sense. But in this life, it's not necessarily a formula like, Well, if I'm righteous, God will always bless me and I'll never have problems. And so that's why you need like the book of Job along with the book of Proverbs. But yeah. Yeah.

Jeramie: ultimate sense. Right. Even if your life is hard in this life as you follow righteousness, if your faith is in Christ and you fear God, in the end, in eternal life, we learn from the New Testament, we're all blessed. So proverbs become ultimately true in an eternal sense. In an eternal sense. But in this life, it's not necessarily a formula like, Well, if I'm righteous, God will always bless me and I'll never have problems. And so that's why you need like the book of Job along with the book of Proverbs. But yeah. Yeah.

Allen: That's a great question. Yeah, because I think sometimes people get confused by that, as if it's like a guaranteed promise. Right, right, right. Yeah. do you have a favorite proverb? I have so many favorite proverbs. I love Proverbs five and six, which is Proverbs five I've always loved because it's both a warning against adultery, but it's a call to love your wife and to delight in your wife. And I've really I've always loved that just as a way of thinking about loving my wife and being devoted to her.

Jeramie: That's a great question. Yeah, because I think sometimes people get confused by that, as if it's like a guaranteed promise. Right, right, right. Yeah. do you have a favorite proverb? I have so many favorite proverbs. I love Proverbs five and six, which is Proverbs five I've always loved because it's both a warning against adultery, but it's a call to love your wife and to delight in your wife. And I've really I've always loved that just as a way of thinking about loving my wife and being devoted to her.

Allen: gosh, I don't know. There's so many Well, the one I quoted, the heart of the King is in the hand of the Lord. He directs it like a water course wherever he wishes. I've always loved that. And of course, okay, so this may be cheesy, but I've always loved three, five, and six. Trust in the Lord through your heart, lean nothing. You have to. I mean, it's it's so in all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight. Yeah, it's a classic memory verse, but there's a reason why everyone latches on to that one because it's just like so many times in life we don't know what to do, where to go.

Jeramie: gosh, I don't know. There's so many Well, the one I quoted, the heart of the King is in the hand of the Lord. He directs it like a water course wherever he wishes. I've always loved that. And of course, okay, so this may be cheesy, but I've always loved three, five, and six. Trust in the Lord through your heart, lean nothing. You have to. I mean, it's it's so in all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight. Yeah, it's a classic memory verse, but there's a reason why everyone latches on to that one because it's just like so many times in life we don't know what to do, where to go.

Allen: That's just kind of like a go to you know, in case of confusion, break glass. Yeah. Follow that problem. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I'm gonna keep talking about that verse, man. It's just yeah. Just I just cling on to it. It's like, yeah, I don't know what to do. Life is hard, things are confusing. They they seem like everything seems like it's spiraling out of control half the time. And you're just like, no, trust in the Lord. He's sovereign. Like he'll make your straight you make straight your pass, right? Like things will go well when you follow him.

Jeramie: That's just kind of like a go to you know, in case of confusion, break glass. Yeah. Follow that problem. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I'm gonna keep talking about that verse, man. It's just yeah. Just I just cling on to it. It's like, yeah, I don't know what to do. Life is hard, things are confusing. They they seem like everything seems like it's spiraling out of control half the time. And you're just like, no, trust in the Lord. He's sovereign. Like he'll make your straight you make straight your pass, right? Like things will go well when you follow him.

Allen: And you know, you look back in your life. This is one of the few advantages of being old. it mostly stinks to be old, but I'm finding. but one of the advantages is you do have the history to be able to look back and be like, you know what? God did bring me through that. You know what? God did work it out. And he worked it out in ways that were very surprising. Yeah. so the more you look back on your life, the more you can see the hand of God ordering your steps. Practically speaking. Yeah. And actually, I mean, in that same

Jeramie: And you know, you look back in your life. This is one of the few advantages of being old. it mostly stinks to be old, but I'm finding. but one of the advantages is you do have the history to be able to look back and be like, you know what? God did bring me through that. You know what? God did work it out. And he worked it out in ways that were very surprising. Yeah. so the more you look back on your life, the more you can see the hand of God ordering your steps. Practically speaking. Yeah. And actually, I mean, in that same

Allen: Proverb, we probably don't love this as much out of three, but eleven and twelve. My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline or be weary of his reproof, for the Lord reproves him whom he loves as of the as a father, the son in whom he delights. That's right. It's right, it's like so you trust in the Lord, but then it's also don't despise when he disciplines you or he reproves you because he's doing it because he loves you. And it's hard to, you know, and you funny, you old seasoned I'm younger, it's like

Jeramie: Proverb, we probably don't love this as much out of three, but eleven and twelve. My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline or be weary of his reproof, for the Lord reproves him whom he loves as of the as a father, the son in whom he delights. That's right. It's right, it's like so you trust in the Lord, but then it's also don't despise when he disciplines you or he reproves you because he's doing it because he loves you. And it's hard to, you know, and you funny, you old seasoned I'm younger, it's like

Allen: Discipline. It never feels good in the moment when you're younger. Never feels good. Yeah. But like there's only one way to learn. Yeah. The you've got to be disciplined and you gotta go through things and then you see, which you're speaking from that perspective is yeah, that's why the Lord did this. That's what he was teaching me through this, even when it doesn't feel good in the moment. Which I think is actually one of the benefits of, you know, me being in a a more seasoned congregation and being in the necessity for

Jeramie: Discipline. It never feels good in the moment when you're younger. Never feels good. Yeah. But like there's only one way to learn. Yeah. The you've got to be disciplined and you gotta go through things and then you see, which you're speaking from that perspective is yeah, that's why the Lord did this. That's what he was teaching me through this, even when it doesn't feel good in the moment. Which I think is actually one of the benefits of, you know, me being in a a more seasoned congregation and being in the necessity for

Allen: kind of intergenerational ministry and older saints seeking out younger saints, younger saints seeking out older saints is because I can read the proverbs all day long, but then when it practically plays out, I can't get that unless I come and talk to an older Saint Like, tell me how this has played out in your life. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You know, and that's why, you know, one of the things I really love about the I know we're getting off track a little bit here, but just to riff on that a little bit, about the texture of our particular congregation.

Jeramie: kind of intergenerational ministry and older saints seeking out younger saints, younger saints seeking out older saints is because I can read the proverbs all day long, but then when it practically plays out, I can't get that unless I come and talk to an older Saint Like, tell me how this has played out in your life. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You know, and that's why, you know, one of the things I really love about the I know we're getting off track a little bit here, but just to riff on that a little bit, about the texture of our particular congregation.

Allen: Is that we have so many saints who've walked faithfully for decades and have so much life experience proving out the scriptures. But we also have all these young pastors and young apprentices who are really grounded in in their th theology and and understanding of scripture. And what a great like pairing to bring together of like these young guys who have energy and drive and it great learning from the academy paired with brothers and sisters who've

Jeramie: Is that we have so many saints who've walked faithfully for decades and have so much life experience proving out the scriptures. But we also have all these young pastors and young apprentices who are really grounded in in their th theology and and understanding of scripture. And what a great like pairing to bring together of like these young guys who have energy and drive and it great learning from the academy paired with brothers and sisters who've

Allen: Who have deep learning through the school of hard knocks and life. Yeah. And and that that is a powerful combination when they both appreciate each other. Yeah, that's right. And they're not like, those old people are or those young people. We do these young pastors. Like, no, no, no. This is like like wonderful if we embrace it. Yeah. So and I which I think generally speaking happens, which is I love that about our church. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. It's like

Jeramie: Who have deep learning through the school of hard knocks and life. Yeah. And and that that is a powerful combination when they both appreciate each other. Yeah, that's right. And they're not like, those old people are or those young people. We do these young pastors. Like, no, no, no. This is like like wonderful if we embrace it. Yeah. So and I which I think generally speaking happens, which is I love that about our church. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. It's like

Allen: The the webbing is, you know, if you're thinking about hey is the gospel. The the webbing of old and young and everybody is the gospel. It's the gospel. Well, and it reminds us that the church is unified around the gospel. It's not unified around age. It's not unified around life experience or culture or ethnicity. It's unified around Christ. So that the co the the church should be a weird mix of people who normally wouldn't all be hanging out together in the world. It's like why are all those people together? Well, it's the gospel.

Jeramie: The the webbing is, you know, if you're thinking about hey is the gospel. The the webbing of old and young and everybody is the gospel. It's the gospel. Well, and it reminds us that the church is unified around the gospel. It's not unified around age. It's not unified around life experience or culture or ethnicity. It's unified around Christ. So that the co the the church should be a weird mix of people who normally wouldn't all be hanging out together in the world. It's like why are all those people together? Well, it's the gospel.

Allen: Amen. Yeah. It's great. Speaking of the gospel, it's a gospel of Luke. Yeah. Yep. is this what's your favorite gospel? I think I've asked you this before. Is it Luke? No, it's not Luke. I love John. You love John. I love them all, but I love John. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. Is it okay to have favorite books of the Bible? I guess. I think so. Yeah. All right. So Gospel of Luke. kind of one of the the themes I think you see here in thirteen one through the end of fourteen.

Jeramie: Amen. Yeah. It's great. Speaking of the gospel, it's a gospel of Luke. Yeah. Yep. is this what's your favorite gospel? I think I've asked you this before. Is it Luke? No, it's not Luke. I love John. You love John. I love them all, but I love John. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. Is it okay to have favorite books of the Bible? I guess. I think so. Yeah. All right. So Gospel of Luke. kind of one of the the themes I think you see here in thirteen one through the end of fourteen.

Allen: Is Jesus' kind of radical call. Yeah. in who's going to be in the kingdom, who's not, who's going to be with him. and then kind of one of the themes is repent, right? It's the the famous repent or perish. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yeah. Or as Spurgeon famously preached, turn or burn. Right. Yeah, but I do think 13 of 14, what you get is is it a lot of different

Jeramie: Is Jesus' kind of radical call. Yeah. in who's going to be in the kingdom, who's not, who's going to be with him. and then kind of one of the themes is repent, right? It's the the famous repent or perish. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yeah. Or as Spurgeon famously preached, turn or burn. Right. Yeah, but I do think 13 of 14, what you get is is it a lot of different

Allen: angles a a lot of little perspectives on what it takes to enter the kingdom of God. so for instance, like you said, chapter 13, one to five, you know, repent. Interesting text by the way, because that that's addresses the situation of what about disasters where people die? Is that is that God's judgment on them? Are they like the bad people who finally got judged? Yeah. And it's interesting, Jesus is like, no, they're not worse than you.

Jeramie: angles a a lot of little perspectives on what it takes to enter the kingdom of God. so for instance, like you said, chapter 13, one to five, you know, repent. Interesting text by the way, because that that's addresses the situation of what about disasters where people die? Is that is that God's judgment on them? Are they like the bad people who finally got judged? Yeah. And it's interesting, Jesus is like, no, they're not worse than you.

Allen: And actually the lesson to take away from disasters is, dude, you need to repent or or you'll perish. Yeah. So as opposed to like, those people got what they deserve. It's like, no, no, no, no. That's a warning to you. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of the and I think one of the the highlights I think in here is the upside down nature of the kingdom. Yeah. Where it's like, no, you need to repent. You you because Israel, the leaders, right? It's like, hey, they're they're supposed to be God's chosen people. They're supposed to be the people.

Jeramie: And actually the lesson to take away from disasters is, dude, you need to repent or or you'll perish. Yeah. So as opposed to like, those people got what they deserve. It's like, no, no, no, no. That's a warning to you. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of the and I think one of the the highlights I think in here is the upside down nature of the kingdom. Yeah. Where it's like, no, you need to repent. You you because Israel, the leaders, right? It's like, hey, they're they're supposed to be God's chosen people. They're supposed to be the people.

Allen: Who have this inheritance and he goes, No, unless you repent, you're also gonna perish. That's right. And then, you know, the parable of of the mustard seed and the leaven, right? Is that it, you know, leaven would leaven a whole you know, mustard seed starts small, then it grows in this huge tree. and then leaven ends up leavening a whole a whole lump of bread or a whole loaf of bread. And it's like that's the nature of the king. He was it starts small and then it's gonna grow really, really big and it's gonna be surprising at how it starts. Yeah.

Jeramie: Who have this inheritance and he goes, No, unless you repent, you're also gonna perish. That's right. And then, you know, the parable of of the mustard seed and the leaven, right? Is that it, you know, leaven would leaven a whole you know, mustard seed starts small, then it grows in this huge tree. and then leaven ends up leavening a whole a whole lump of bread or a whole loaf of bread. And it's like that's the nature of the king. He was it starts small and then it's gonna grow really, really big and it's gonna be surprising at how it starts. Yeah.

Allen: yeah, there's a lot of surprises in here, you know. just rocking through chapter thirteen, super high level. The fig tree is barren, you know, the the leaders aren't bearing fruit. it's surprising that he says in the end of chapter thirteen, the door is narrow. Yeah. You know, it's not it's not wide. it's it's a narrow path. You you don't, you know, you you don't just kind of float your way down the lazy river of salvation. Like you've got to climb up to the narrow gate and fight your way through.

Jeramie: yeah, there's a lot of surprises in here, you know. just rocking through chapter thirteen, super high level. The fig tree is barren, you know, the the leaders aren't bearing fruit. it's surprising that he says in the end of chapter thirteen, the door is narrow. Yeah. You know, it's not it's not wide. it's it's a narrow path. You you don't, you know, you you don't just kind of float your way down the lazy river of salvation. Like you've got to climb up to the narrow gate and fight your way through.

Allen: Yeah. Jerusalem, you know, at the end of chapter thirteen, he's weeping over Jerusalem because of its response. so you know, the wedding feast, it's the humble person who's it's not the exalted person. Or at the end of chapter fourteen, the great banquet, where it's not the this the the VIP guest list, they don't show up. And so he's like, No, go out to the highways and the byways and compel them to come in. you know, we we must

Jeramie: Yeah. Jerusalem, you know, at the end of chapter thirteen, he's weeping over Jerusalem because of its response. so you know, the wedding feast, it's the humble person who's it's not the exalted person. Or at the end of chapter fourteen, the great banquet, where it's not the this the the VIP guest list, they don't show up. And so he's like, No, go out to the highways and the byways and compel them to come in. you know, we we must

Allen: We must fill this so that the kingdom of God is actually being filled by the people who you normally wouldn't think belong there. So it's a lot of surprises and it's a lot of call to don't don't presume you're automatically in. You need to repent and seek the Lord. And of course, I think today it's like, hey, your parents may have been Christians, your dad may have been a pastor, you may have grown up in a church. Don't presume that you're just kind of like on this sort of Christian lazy river floating into the kingdom of God. Like, do you really know?

Jeramie: We must fill this so that the kingdom of God is actually being filled by the people who you normally wouldn't think belong there. So it's a lot of surprises and it's a lot of call to don't don't presume you're automatically in. You need to repent and seek the Lord. And of course, I think today it's like, hey, your parents may have been Christians, your dad may have been a pastor, you may have grown up in a church. Don't presume that you're just kind of like on this sort of Christian lazy river floating into the kingdom of God. Like, do you really know?

Allen: Christ. Are you have you really given your life over to Jesus? Yeah, yeah, that's right. in that last section of fourteen where Jesus talks about the cost of discipleship, and I mentioned this a couple episodes ago, but I think it's worth re mentioning is Diet Dietrich Bonhoeffer, right, the the the German theologian writer, in his book The Cost of Discipleship, he wrote about cheap grace. Yeah, and he's kind of commenting, riffing on this theme here. That's right. Where he goes

Jeramie: Christ. Are you have you really given your life over to Jesus? Yeah, yeah, that's right. in that last section of fourteen where Jesus talks about the cost of discipleship, and I mentioned this a couple episodes ago, but I think it's worth re mentioning is Diet Dietrich Bonhoeffer, right, the the the German theologian writer, in his book The Cost of Discipleship, he wrote about cheap grace. Yeah, and he's kind of commenting, riffing on this theme here. That's right. Where he goes

Allen: Chi it's grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living in an incarnate goes cheap grace. It offers forgiveness without repentance, baptism without discipline, and communion without confession. Great quote. Isn't that great? It's so good. Yeah. It's like it's easy. We call it sometimes easy believism. Yeah, easy believism, right. But but yeah, it costs it's you know, the gospel is the free gift of God that costs you everything. And it's like, yeah, it's free. You just receive it by faith. You don't have to do anything to be saved. Yeah.

Jeramie: Chi it's grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living in an incarnate goes cheap grace. It offers forgiveness without repentance, baptism without discipline, and communion without confession. Great quote. Isn't that great? It's so good. Yeah. It's like it's easy. We call it sometimes easy believism. Yeah, easy believism, right. But but yeah, it costs it's you know, the gospel is the free gift of God that costs you everything. And it's like, yeah, it's free. You just receive it by faith. You don't have to do anything to be saved. Yeah.

Allen: But it's a surrendering of your whole life. you know, you you receive Christ as savior and lord. It you don't get to like pick those and be like, Well, I'll I'll take him as savior now, but we'll do Lord on layaway and you know, maybe work on that next year. Like he you get all of Jesus. Yeah, what what is what does it mean to have Jesus as Lord then? Or maybe a and not to have Jes or not to act like Jesus is Lord. I mean, yeah. So I mean, first of all, he is Lord.

Jeramie: But it's a surrendering of your whole life. you know, you you receive Christ as savior and lord. It you don't get to like pick those and be like, Well, I'll I'll take him as savior now, but we'll do Lord on layaway and you know, maybe work on that next year. Like he you get all of Jesus. Yeah, what what is what does it mean to have Jesus as Lord then? Or maybe a and not to have Jes or not to act like Jesus is Lord. I mean, yeah. So I mean, first of all, he is Lord.

Allen: Yeah. So whether or not I call him Lord or not, he is. Yeah, that's true. So let's start there. It doesn't matter. If the whole world's like Jesus is not Lord, the whole world is wrong. And Jesus is Lord. Right, right. I I think what it means experientially is is a surrendering of yourself to him and hey, to his word. Yeah. I mean to me that the ultimate test of the Lordship of Christ in in a Monday through Saturday way is like, do I do what the word says? and when I don't, do I repent?

Jeramie: Yeah. So whether or not I call him Lord or not, he is. Yeah, that's true. So let's start there. It doesn't matter. If the whole world's like Jesus is not Lord, the whole world is wrong. And Jesus is Lord. Right, right. I I think what it means experientially is is a surrendering of yourself to him and hey, to his word. Yeah. I mean to me that the ultimate test of the Lordship of Christ in in a Monday through Saturday way is like, do I do what the word says? and when I don't, do I repent?

Allen: You know, and confess my sins, like we were learning in first John. And do I do I come back to the word? That's the test. And if I don't do that, then he's not Lord because I'm not obeying the King. Right. You know, this is the word of the King. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. And I think one of the things, again, that through theme of the Bible talk about the Bible, Ezra being said about studying the law of God, the Word of God, is it's not a burden. It cost, right? But it's not a burden. Like obeying Jesus.

Jeramie: You know, and confess my sins, like we were learning in first John. And do I do I come back to the word? That's the test. And if I don't do that, then he's not Lord because I'm not obeying the King. Right. You know, this is the word of the King. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. And I think one of the things, again, that through theme of the Bible talk about the Bible, Ezra being said about studying the law of God, the Word of God, is it's not a burden. It cost, right? But it's not a burden. Like obeying Jesus.

Allen: Is a good thing. It's a fun thing. It's more enjoyable. Life will go better. Yeah. When you obey Jesus. All the times of my life where I'm, you know, I'm growing in the knowledge of the Lord. I'm loving him, obeying him, following his commandments. Life goes better experientially in my soul. Maybe not outside. Things are rough, whatever, but just it's a b it's the blessed life, right? As we wrapped up Psalms, it's the blessed life to follow Jesus and it's better that way. Yeah. And etern and then you get eternal life. I mean, that's like in this life, and then eternal life makes

Jeramie: Is a good thing. It's a fun thing. It's more enjoyable. Life will go better. Yeah. When you obey Jesus. All the times of my life where I'm, you know, I'm growing in the knowledge of the Lord. I'm loving him, obeying him, following his commandments. Life goes better experientially in my soul. Maybe not outside. Things are rough, whatever, but just it's a b it's the blessed life, right? As we wrapped up Psalms, it's the blessed life to follow Jesus and it's better that way. Yeah. And etern and then you get eternal life. I mean, that's like in this life, and then eternal life makes

Allen: Whatever quote unquote cost we think we paid to be like that was no cost at all. Yeah. I mean, in terms of what what you get for it. So so in the end, it's not like anyone's gonna be like, yeah, I I you know, paid the price for this. Like, no, you'll be like, Wow. Uhhuh. Christ has paid it all. And even even the the desire I have to follow him is is a desire from the spirit purchased through the blood of Christ. Yeah. That's great. So to wrap to wrap that up, it reminds me of you said on one of your

Jeramie: Whatever quote unquote cost we think we paid to be like that was no cost at all. Yeah. I mean, in terms of what what you get for it. So so in the end, it's not like anyone's gonna be like, yeah, I I you know, paid the price for this. Like, no, you'll be like, Wow. Uhhuh. Christ has paid it all. And even even the the desire I have to follow him is is a desire from the spirit purchased through the blood of Christ. Yeah. That's great. So to wrap to wrap that up, it reminds me of you said on one of your

Allen: one of our previous episodes and just thinking about Teddy's preaching and talking about seeing Jesus is when we see Jesus, the the the dumbest question we ever could ask is was all of this following Jesus worth it? Right. Yeah. No one will ask that. No one will no one will ask that. That's not even gonna be a debate. Everyone's gonna be like, you know, this was the smartest thing ever. Yeah. And I didn't even have the idea. He he gave me a new heart. That's right. Yeah. That's right. All right.

Jeramie: one of our previous episodes and just thinking about Teddy's preaching and talking about seeing Jesus is when we see Jesus, the the the dumbest question we ever could ask is was all of this following Jesus worth it? Right. Yeah. No one will ask that. No one will no one will ask that. That's not even gonna be a debate. Everyone's gonna be like, you know, this was the smartest thing ever. Yeah. And I didn't even have the idea. He he gave me a new heart. That's right. Yeah. That's right. All right.

Allen: Pastoral epistles, first, second Timothy and Titus. Why are those called pastoral epistles? Yeah, because Paul is writing to young pastors and he's instructing them on how they ought to teach, live, behave, and instruct the church. Yeah, that's right. So so really it's a lot what you're gonna find in first Timothy, second Timothy Titus is a lot about how to quote unquote do church. Yeah.

Jeramie: Pastoral epistles, first, second Timothy and Titus. Why are those called pastoral epistles? Yeah, because Paul is writing to young pastors and he's instructing them on how they ought to teach, live, behave, and instruct the church. Yeah, that's right. So so really it's a lot what you're gonna find in first Timothy, second Timothy Titus is a lot about how to quote unquote do church. Yeah.

Allen: Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of church stuff. I mean, you know, even our text today, we've if you've been following along, you've done first Timothy one through four. And in the first three chapters are all about like how to order the public worship of of the church. you know, you have you know, chapter two, verse one. I urge supplications, prayers, intercessions be made. He's talking about how they should pray you know, publicly.

Jeramie: Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of church stuff. I mean, you know, even our text today, we've if you've been following along, you've done first Timothy one through four. And in the first three chapters are all about like how to order the public worship of of the church. you know, you have you know, chapter two, verse one. I urge supplications, prayers, intercessions be made. He's talking about how they should pray you know, publicly.

Allen: and and how they should pray, how they should pray orderly, verse eight. that that who they're who are they who they are to pray for, yeah. Right? For rulers, right? Kings that the Lord has appointed. you know, the role of men and women in the public assembly, verses eleven and twelve, let a woman learn in quietness with all submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, rather she must remain silent. He's talking about the public worship. So in the public worship

Jeramie: and and how they should pray, how they should pray orderly, verse eight. that that who they're who are they who they are to pray for, yeah. Right? For rulers, right? Kings that the Lord has appointed. you know, the role of men and women in the public assembly, verses eleven and twelve, let a woman learn in quietness with all submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, rather she must remain silent. He's talking about the public worship. So in the public worship

Allen: because to reflect the order of creation. it's it's not a it's not a comment about men are smarter than women or anything like that. It's a comment about the order of creation reflected in the public worship of the church that that God calls men to lead his family just as he calls men to lead their families and to be those who teach and exercise authority as pastors and elders. Yeah, that's right. Which which he goes on to worship. Yeah, public worship which he goes on in chapter three to say that. Right. It's it says here here here's the qualifications.

Jeramie: because to reflect the order of creation. it's it's not a it's not a comment about men are smarter than women or anything like that. It's a comment about the order of creation reflected in the public worship of the church that that God calls men to lead his family just as he calls men to lead their families and to be those who teach and exercise authority as pastors and elders. Yeah, that's right. Which which he goes on to worship. Yeah, public worship which he goes on in chapter three to say that. Right. It's it says here here here's the qualifications.

Allen: For these elders, pastors, overseers that are to lead God's church. And it's strong emphasis on his character. Yeah. Right. And is this a a man of God who's above reproach? Yeah. Yeah. And then he goes on to teach that. And then of course, the able to teach. Yeah. And that's interesting if you jump so chapter three, then you start getting into the qualifications of those overseers who are the ones who teach and exercise authority. and and they must be the husband of one wife. Yeah.

Jeramie: For these elders, pastors, overseers that are to lead God's church. And it's strong emphasis on his character. Yeah. Right. And is this a a man of God who's above reproach? Yeah. Yeah. And then he goes on to teach that. And then of course, the able to teach. Yeah. And that's interesting if you jump so chapter three, then you start getting into the qualifications of those overseers who are the ones who teach and exercise authority. and and they must be the husband of one wife. Yeah.

Allen: So they have to be they do have to be men and they have to be, like you said, verse two, able to teach. And that brings us back to this idea that that you mentioned earlier that God's leaders have to be feeders because Jesus leads his church. Jesus leads his church through the king leads his church through his word. So the human leaders of the church must be people who can teach the word and exemplify or obey the word. Or in other words, you could say the elders have to be like Ezra. Yeah. They have to study the word, do it. Mm-hmm.

Jeramie: So they have to be they do have to be men and they have to be, like you said, verse two, able to teach. And that brings us back to this idea that that you mentioned earlier that God's leaders have to be feeders because Jesus leads his church. Jesus leads his church through the king leads his church through his word. So the human leaders of the church must be people who can teach the word and exemplify or obey the word. Or in other words, you could say the elders have to be like Ezra. Yeah. They have to study the word, do it. Mm-hmm.

Allen: They can't have bad character. That's right. And then they have to teach it. Yeah. Follow me as I follow Christ and follow his word. That's that's the example. And isn't it interesting in the qualifications for elders in chapter three? It's all about character. Yeah. I mean, able to teach is there, but dude, it's character, character, character. And I think that's so important because we often pick leaders based upon, they were successful in the business world. Yeah, that's right.

Jeramie: They can't have bad character. That's right. And then they have to teach it. Yeah. Follow me as I follow Christ and follow his word. That's that's the example. And isn't it interesting in the qualifications for elders in chapter three? It's all about character. Yeah. I mean, able to teach is there, but dude, it's character, character, character. And I think that's so important because we often pick leaders based upon, they were successful in the business world. Yeah, that's right.

Allen: Or got this super charismatic personality. Yeah. Or they're really gifted and talented, or they're very smart, or they have a lot of money. Right. or they've been in this church a long time. But it's like, no, do they have the care? Can you look at that person and be like, you know what? That that person is someone who could teach me how to be like Jesus. Not that they're perfect. There's no perfect elders, no perfect pastors, no perfect deacons. They're not flawless, but they have to be a model of Christian maturity.

Jeramie: Or got this super charismatic personality. Yeah. Or they're really gifted and talented, or they're very smart, or they have a lot of money. Right. or they've been in this church a long time. But it's like, no, do they have the care? Can you look at that person and be like, you know what? That that person is someone who could teach me how to be like Jesus. Not that they're perfect. There's no perfect elders, no perfect pastors, no perfect deacons. They're not flawless, but they have to be a model of Christian maturity.

Allen: Yeah, it's great. DA Carson points out Bible scholar, New Testament scholar, brilliant. there's only one and a half qualifications that aren't re aren't an aspiration and quality required for every Christian, which is must not be a recent convert and then able to teach. But all the rest of them, 'cause they're all character things, like every Christian should aspire to these qualifications. So this isn't just for elders, pastor, but like go look at all these qualifications. It's every Christian you should aspire to these. Yeah, that's right. They're all they're all biblical.

Jeramie: Yeah, it's great. DA Carson points out Bible scholar, New Testament scholar, brilliant. there's only one and a half qualifications that aren't re aren't an aspiration and quality required for every Christian, which is must not be a recent convert and then able to teach. But all the rest of them, 'cause they're all character things, like every Christian should aspire to these qualifications. So this isn't just for elders, pastor, but like go look at all these qualifications. It's every Christian you should aspire to these. Yeah, that's right. They're all they're all biblical.

Allen: charac yeah, th they should just be Christian fruit of the spirit kind of things. Yeah. just to point out chapter three, verses one through seven, qualifications for elders. Chapter three, verses eight through thirteen, qualifications for deacons. So these are the two offices in the church, elders and deacons. Sometimes elders are called pastors, sometimes elders are called overseers, sometimes they're called leaders. So there's different names, but it's the same thing. A pastor is an elder, an elder is a pastor.

Jeramie: charac yeah, th they should just be Christian fruit of the spirit kind of things. Yeah. just to point out chapter three, verses one through seven, qualifications for elders. Chapter three, verses eight through thirteen, qualifications for deacons. So these are the two offices in the church, elders and deacons. Sometimes elders are called pastors, sometimes elders are called overseers, sometimes they're called leaders. So there's different names, but it's the same thing. A pastor is an elder, an elder is a pastor.

Allen: You know, Kurt Schulte and Brad Thompson and Mike Bugler are pastors of this church. Teddy Folkerts and you know Bobby Conkle and Chris Salmanese are elders of this church. It's the same thing. Yeah. and then it's a gift to the church. It's a gift to the church. As our deacons. elders shepherd and teach and pray. Deacons care for the

Jeramie: You know, Kurt Schulte and Brad Thompson and Mike Bugler are pastors of this church. Teddy Folkerts and you know Bobby Conkle and Chris Salmanese are elders of this church. It's the same thing. Yeah. and then it's a gift to the church. It's a gift to the church. As our deacons. elders shepherd and teach and pray. Deacons care for the

Allen: The practical needs of the church. The the lead servants. Lead servants who who are the the shock absorbers who are carrying that logistical load and both are critical. it y we could say that a biblical church is one that is elder led and deacon served. And yeah. And and then, you know, chapter four, just to wrap it up, is is the warning that there will the reason why all this teaching and stuff's important is because there's gonna be false teachers. Mm-hmm.

Jeramie: The practical needs of the church. The the lead servants. Lead servants who who are the the shock absorbers who are carrying that logistical load and both are critical. it y we could say that a biblical church is one that is elder led and deacon served. And yeah. And and then, you know, chapter four, just to wrap it up, is is the warning that there will the reason why all this teaching and stuff's important is because there's gonna be false teachers. Mm-hmm.

Allen: Let me just let me just read this first five verses, chapter four. Now the spirit expressly says that in later times, which is now the latter days, some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons. Through the which sounds extreme, but then again, if it's not the word of God, then it's gonna be the word of Satan, you know? through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared. So so he goes on just to warn against.

Jeramie: Let me just let me just read this first five verses, chapter four. Now the spirit expressly says that in later times, which is now the latter days, some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons. Through the which sounds extreme, but then again, if it's not the word of God, then it's gonna be the word of Satan, you know? through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared. So so he goes on just to warn against.

Allen: False teaching. And that's why we need elders and deacons and good teaching in the church. and which is why he tells Timothy at the end of chapter four, command and teach these things, let no one despise you for your youth. So Timothy was a young pastor. Mm-hmm. You know, you know, you don't have to be sixty-five to be a pastor or fifty like me, or fifty five, you know, like you can be a young pastor. but they have to set an example in speech and conduct and love, faith, and purity.

Jeramie: False teaching. And that's why we need elders and deacons and good teaching in the church. and which is why he tells Timothy at the end of chapter four, command and teach these things, let no one despise you for your youth. So Timothy was a young pastor. Mm-hmm. You know, you know, you don't have to be sixty-five to be a pastor or fifty like me, or fifty five, you know, like you can be a young pastor. but they have to set an example in speech and conduct and love, faith, and purity.

Allen: He says, devote yourself to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. so this this idea to keep teaching, to keep walking in the Lord, because of the pressure of false teaching against church. Yeah, that's great. that's a great overview. Great job, First Timothy. and just it it it actually makes me really encouraged, just thinking about our church and

Jeramie: He says, devote yourself to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. so this this idea to keep teaching, to keep walking in the Lord, because of the pressure of false teaching against church. Yeah, that's great. that's a great overview. Great job, First Timothy. and just it it it actually makes me really encouraged, just thinking about our church and

Allen: The direction been here a little bit and just to see this growing more and more and more. It's like cause you're always aspiring to these things, knowing you're not doing it perfectly. Yeah, but you're always growing and seeing that is super encouraging. Yeah. can I comment on one of my favorite verses, I think, in the pastoral epistles? Do it. It's in chapter one, verse verse twelve. I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he has judged me faithful, appointed me into a service. The formerly I was a blasphemer.

Jeramie: The direction been here a little bit and just to see this growing more and more and more. It's like cause you're always aspiring to these things, knowing you're not doing it perfectly. Yeah, but you're always growing and seeing that is super encouraging. Yeah. can I comment on one of my favorite verses, I think, in the pastoral epistles? Do it. It's in chapter one, verse verse twelve. I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he has judged me faithful, appointed me into a service. The formerly I was a blasphemer.

Allen: Persecutor, an insolent opponent, but I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the foremost. But I receive mercy for this reason that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience.

Jeramie: Persecutor, an insolent opponent, but I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the foremost. But I receive mercy for this reason that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience.

Allen: As an example to those who are to believe in him for eternal life. To the king of ages, a mortal, invisible, the only God, be honor in glory forever and ever. Amen. Paul received mercy as a an opponent of Christianity, an opponent of Christ, so that the power of Christ might rest upon him and that his mercy might be displayed to a watching world and show the foolishness of the cross that saves even the worst of sinners and can bring about the best of fruit. So that always encourages me. Love it.

Jeramie: As an example to those who are to believe in him for eternal life. To the king of ages, a mortal, invisible, the only God, be honor in glory forever and ever. Amen. Paul received mercy as a an opponent of Christianity, an opponent of Christ, so that the power of Christ might rest upon him and that his mercy might be displayed to a watching world and show the foolishness of the cross that saves even the worst of sinners and can bring about the best of fruit. So that always encourages me. Love it.

Allen: Yeah, it's a great, a great passage. And and to a degree, every Christian can say that. Yeah. You know. And it's great. Yeah. It's great. Well, good. We are glad that you guys are trekking along with us and giving us constant encouragement and feedback and we wanna we wanna serve you and we're happy to have you back, Pastor Jeremy, and hear you preach more and more and continue to grow. Praise God. Yep. There's always more room to grow. There's always more

Jeramie: Yeah, it's a great, a great passage. And and to a degree, every Christian can say that. Yeah. You know. And it's great. Yeah. It's great. Well, good. We are glad that you guys are trekking along with us and giving us constant encouragement and feedback and we wanna we wanna serve you and we're happy to have you back, Pastor Jeremy, and hear you preach more and more and continue to grow. Praise God. Yep. There's always more room to grow. There's always more

Allen: This has been another another episode. Another another episode of the SCC Saver Podcast. Apple, YouTube, Spotify. We'll see you next time.

Jeramie: This has been another another episode. Another another episode of the SCC Saver Podcast. Apple, YouTube, Spotify. We'll see you next time.