Jeramie: Well, welcome back to the SCC Saver podcast. My name is Alan, Pastoral Apprentice at Santa Bell Community Church, and I'm joined with Jeremy Rennie, senior pastor of Santa Bell Community Church. Hey, hey this the weather just changed in Florida. That's fantastic. Yeah, this is like the best time ever in Florida. you have a Jeep. I do have a Jeep. Yeah. The doors have come off. The doors are official. That's how you know.

Allen: Well, welcome back to the SCC Saber podcast. My name is Alan Pastoral Apprentice at Sandoval Community Church, and I'm joined with Jeremy Rennie, senior pastor of Sandoval Community Church. Hey, hey, this the weather just changed in Florida. That's fantastic. Yeah, this is like the best time ever in Florida. you have a Jeep. I do have a Jeep. Yeah. The doors have come off. The doors are official. That's how you know.

Jeramie: that the weather's shifting it's one of the signs of season at Sanibel is snowbirds are back, yeah, you know, humidity's down and my doors come off my Jeep and they stay off until A as long as possible, April or May. That's crazy. So October through April or May, there's not a better place to live on the planet? Bro. Yeah. It's the best. Yeah. It's it's seriously the best. The summer is a little bit miserable. Yeah. But doors off in the Jeep. Man, I had that was my first car.

Allen: that the weather's shifting it's one of the signs of season at Sanibel is snowbirds are back, yeah, you know, humidity's down and my doors come off my Jeep and they stay off until A as long as possible, April or May. That's crazy. So October through April or May, there's not a better place to live on the planet? Bro. Yeah. It's the best. Yeah. It's it's seriously the best. The summer is a little bit miserable. Yeah. But doors off in the Jeep. Man, I had that was my first car.

Jeramie: Was it yeah, it was the Jeep, man. That was it's hard to sell your Jeep, isn't it? Yeah. I just sold it recently. Ooh. Yeah, it was pretty sad. But yeah, doors off, man. Stunning. Beautiful. It's the best it's it's the best ever. Well, it's like a motorcycle, except you're not like gonna die. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in a a car. So that's how I think about it. It's like, you know, e every once a while I've wanted to drive a motorcycle, but then it it's weird. It's like I'll just hear some grisly story.

Allen: Was it yeah, it was the Jeep, man. That was it's hard to sell your Jeep, isn't it? Yeah. I just sold it recently. Ooh. Yeah, it was pretty sad. But yeah, doors off, man. Stunning. Beautiful. It's the best it's it's the best ever. Well, it's like a motorcycle, except you're not like gonna die. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in a a car. So that's how I think about it. It's like, you know, e every once a while I've wanted to drive a motorcycle, but then it it's weird. It's like I'll just hear some grisly story.

Jeramie: Of some person dying, like right after I thought, like, maybe I'll get a motorcycle. So I feel like the Lord has kind of providentially kept me from getting a motorcycle. Putting a Jeep instead. Yeah. First first world problems. First seriously. Well, speaking of that, man, I I I I've I've preached one funeral. Yes. Do you know how the guy died? How? Motorcycle accident. Bro. Yeah. Yeah. And today with with you know distracted drivers.

Allen: Of some person dying, like right after I thought, like, maybe I'll get a motorcycle. So I feel like the Lord has kind of providentially kept me from getting a motorcycle. Putting a Jeep instead. Yeah. First first world problems. First seriously. Well, speaking of that, man, I I I I've I've preached one funeral. Yes. Do you know how the guy died? How? Motorcycle accident. Bro. Yeah. Yeah. And today with with you know distracted drivers.

Jeramie: And I mean you look around in the cars, everyone's on their phone while they're driving. I know. Yeah. So it's like it it's just a crazy time to be a motorcyclist. Yeah. Meanwhile, you got Elon Musk making flying cars. Dude, that's the solution. That's the solution. The self driving cars are crazy. Yeah, they're they're crazy. Yeah. I rode in one the other day with a church member. We went out to dinner and they're like, yeah, we can get there the whole way without driving and the person hit the thing and then they didn't touch the steering wheel the whole time. Yeah.

Allen: And I mean you look around in the cars, everyone's on their phone while they're driving. I know. Yeah. So it's like it it's just a crazy time to be a motorcyclist. Yeah. Meanwhile, you got Elon Musk making flying cars. Dude, that's the solution. That's the solution. The self driving cars are crazy. Yeah, they're they're crazy. Yeah. I rode in one the other day with a church member. We went out to dinner and they're like, yeah, we can get there the whole way without driving and the person hit the thing and then they didn't touch the steering wheel the whole time. Yeah.

Jeramie: And I like I knew it was real, but I'd never experienced it and I was just freaking out. Yeah. Yeah. I was in the driver's seat of a church member's car that drives itself and I didn't touch the cereal. It's so weird. Yeah, it's weird. Futures here. Yeah, the future's here. Hey w this is this is a silly question. Yeah. No, it's a really serious question. Yeah, okay. Go. All right. What car would Jesus drive? All right. I'm gonna say well, okay, first coming, second coming.

Allen: And I like I knew it was real, but I'd never experienced it and I was just freaking out. Yeah. Yeah. I was in the driver's seat of a church member's car that drives itself and I didn't touch the cereal. It's so weird. Yeah, it's weird. Futures here. Yeah, the future's here. Hey w this is this is a silly question. Yeah. No, it's a really serious question. Yeah, okay. Go. All right. What car would Jesus drive? All right. I'm gonna say well, okay, first coming, second coming.

Jeramie: First coming, okay. I'm like, okay, he rode a donkey. So I think he's driving a beater pickup truck. Okay. Because like a donkey. Yeah. Donkey's just this animal that just hauls stuff around. Yeah, that's right. second coming, it's gonna be like a Bugatti or a Lamborghini. It's gonna be white. Ooh. It's gonna be fast and powerful. Like the white horse. Yeah. So I like it. Yeah. That's good thoughts. I think Yeah.

Allen: First coming, okay. I'm like, okay, he rode a donkey. So I think he's driving a beater pickup truck. Okay. Because like a donkey. Yeah. Donkey's just this animal that just hauls stuff around. Yeah, that's right. second coming, it's gonna be like a Bugatti or a Lamborghini. It's gonna be white. Ooh. It's gonna be fast and powerful. Like the white horse. Yeah. So I like it. Yeah. That's good thoughts. I think He had the

Jeramie: Pickup trip, the donkey. do you remember sobs? yeah. Yeah. Those aren't they don't make those anymore. No. Yeah. So I was thinking like he'd make me sob, like kind of low key. He's humble. First if we're putting first coming, second coming, not kind of humble. He is humble. Yeah. Driving a sob, old sob, you know, he's like, Who is this guy driving a sob? But he's actually the king of the universe. Yeah. You don't you kind of miss it. second coming, just excavator.

Allen: the pickup trip, the donkey. do you remember sobs? yeah. Yeah. Those are they don't make those anymore. No. Yeah. So I was thinking like he'd make me sob, like kinda low key. He's humble. First c if we're putting first coming, second coming, not kinda humble. He is humble. Yeah. Driving a sob, old sob, you know, he was like, Who is this guy driving a sob? But he's actually the king of the universe. Yeah. You don't you kinda miss it. second coming, just excavator.

Jeramie: M1 Abrams tank. Yeah. I don't know. Like he's coming in victory. He's coming in power. Yeah, that's right. I don't know. Yeah. So anyway. We shall see. Yeah. We'll see. all right. We're gonna hop in. We're into our Bible reading plan and we're savoring God through every bite of scripture. And we're gonna do that looking at month ten, days fourteen through nineteen. This is Jeremiah thirty-two through fifty, and then the end of Ecclesiastes ten through twelve.

Allen: M1 Abrams tank. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. He's coming in victory. He's coming in power. Yeah, that's right. I don't know. Yeah. So anyway. We shall see. Yeah. We'll see. all right. We're gonna hop in. We're into our Bible reading plan and we're savoring God through every bite of scripture. And we're gonna do that looking at month ten, days fourteen through nineteen. This is Jeremiah thirty-two through fifty, and then the end of Ecclesiastes ten through twelve.

Jeramie: And then Song of Songs or Song of Solomon as it's been called, one through four, seven. first Peter one through three seven, and then the gospel of John, chapter four, twenty seven through six twenty four. So we're gonna hop in with Jeremiah. This is kind of now the the concluding section of Jeremiah here and see if you wanna hop in and start to comment on what's going on. I mean, we are finally now getting to the fall of Jerusalem, which has been

Allen: And then Song of Songs or Song of Solomon as it's been called, one through four seven. first Peter one through three seven, and then the gospel of John, chapter four, twenty seven through six twenty four. So we're gonna hop in with Jeremiah. This is kind of now the the concluding section of Jeremiah here and see if you wanna hop in and start to comment on what's going on. I mean, we are finally now getting to the fall of Jerusalem, which has been

Jeramie: Prophesied, threatened, warned throughout the whole book, and now like the axe finally falls. and I I think what's one of the things that gets me, and there's a lot to say in this section, but is just the stubbornness of the people. You know, he like Jeremiah brings the scroll to Jehoiakim and and he just literally burns the scroll. You know, it's like the this is the word of God being read to them.

Allen: Prophesied, threatened, warned throughout the whole book, and now like the axe finally falls. and I I think what's one of the things that gets me, and there's a lot to say in this section, but is just the stubbornness of the people. You know, he like Jeremiah brings the scroll to Jehoiakim and and he just literally burns the scroll. You know, it's like the this is the word of God being read to them.

Jeramie: And he sits there as it's being read with a knife, slicing off the scroll and throwing it in the fire because it was winter and it he just uses it to keep his house warm. And or you know, you think about you know them throwing him in a cistern, like they're just totally rejecting, you know, the the word of God. But then the one that really got me was was he's like, You guys need to surrender. And you know, he says to Zedekai, surrender, and he's like

Allen: And he sits there as it's being read with a knife, slicing off the scroll and throwing it in the fire because it was winter and it he just used it to keep his house warm. And or you know, you think about you know them throwing him in a cistern, like they're just totally rejecting, you know, the the word of God. But then the one that really got me was was he's like, you guys need to surrender. And you know, he says to Zedekai, surrender, and he's like

Jeramie: Okay, I'll do whatever you say. I'm not going to surrender. And he doesn't surrender the Babylonians. And then the Babylonians conquer them. So then he says, all the people are like, All right, we'll listen to you. You're obviously the prophet. And we'll do anything you say, right? you know, 42, 5 to 6. Then they said to Jeremiah, May the Lord be a true and faithful witness against us if we do not act.

Allen: Okay, I'll do whatever you say. I'm not going to surrender. And he doesn't surrender the Babylonians. And then the Babylonians conquer them. So then he says, all the people are like, All right, we'll listen to you. You're obviously the prophet. And we'll do anything you say, right? you know, 42, 5 to 6. Then they said to Jeremiah, May the Lord be a true and faithful witness against us if we do not act.

Jeramie: According to all the word with which the Lord God, with which the Lord your God sends you to us, whether it be good or bad, we will obey the voice of the Lord of God to whom we are sending you. You know, and they're just like, We promise, we promise. And he's like, All right, here's the word of the Lord. Don't go to Egypt, stay here. And they're like, We're going to Egypt. And they and they kidnap him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And force him to go. Uh-huh. It's just like

Allen: According to all the word with which the Lord God, with which the Lord your God sends you to us, whether it be good or bad, we will obey the voice of the Lord of God to whom we are sending you. You know, and they're just like, We promise, we promise. And he's like, All right, here's the word of the Lord. Don't go to Egypt, stay here. Uh-huh. And they're like, We're going to Egypt. And they and they kidnap him. Yeah. Yeah. And force him to go. Uh-huh. It's just like.

Jeramie: What in the world? It's like whatever God says, they're literally like, and that's not what we're doing. Yeah. what what a picture of the stubborn, rebellious, disobedient lawlessness of the people. This is why they had to be judged. Mm-hmm. Is they just rejected God's word completely. And now it's just like finally reached its so that even after the judgment, they still don't get the lesson. No. It's crazy.

Allen: What in the world? It's like whatever God says, they're literally like, and that's not what we're doing. Yeah. what what a picture of the stubborn, rebellious, disobedient lawlessness of the people. This is why they had to be judged. Mm-hmm. They just rejected God's word completely. And now it's just like finally reached its so that even after the judgment, they still don't get the lesson. No. It's crazy.

Jeramie: Yeah, it is cr you know, it's kind of funny, I think, as contemporary modern readers, because we read these stories and we're like, Man, they're just so stupid. Why don't they just listen? Right. You know? But then oftentimes I'm like, wait, how many times has God told me to do something? Right. And I'm just like, Mm, no, I'd rather do this my own way. Yeah, I'm doing this. I'm I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, I'm not gonna do it. And so yeah, I think sometimes we kind of can read that on there. But yeah, it just goes to show the stubbornness

Allen: Yeah, it is cr you know, it's kind of funny, I think, as contemporary modern readers, 'cause we read these stories and we're like, Man, they're just so stupid. Why don't they just listen? Right. You know? But then oftentimes I'm like, wait, how many times has God told me to do something? Right. And I'm just like, Mm, no, I'd rather do this my own way. Yeah, I'm doing this. I'm I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, I'm not gonna do it. And so yeah, I think sometimes we kind of can read that on there. But yeah, it just goes to show the stubbornness

Jeramie: What sin does to you, man? It it blinds you. It does. Like sin really makes you stupid. Sin is irrational. It's irrational to disobey God. Yes. It's irrational. Yeah. Why would why would you disobey the God who loves you, made you, rules you is all wise. Yeah. It's just it's dumb. Mm-hmm. it's you know, it's more than dumb. It's wicked. Yeah. And it brings his wrath and judgment. Yeah. and rightly so, because we've committed the greatest crime in the world, which is to reject

Allen: What sin does to you, man? It it blinds you. It does. Like sin really makes you stupid. Sin is irrational. Yeah. It's irrational to disobey God. Yes. It's irrational. Yeah. Why would why would you disobey the God who loves you, made you, rules you is all wise. Yeah. It's just it's dumb. Mm-hmm. it's you know, it's more than dumb. It's wicked. Yeah. And it brings his wrath and judgment. Yeah. and rightly so, because we've committed the greatest crime in the world, which is to reject

Jeramie: the best thing in the world, which is God. Yeah. God himself. Yeah. Yeah. you said yeah, like you said, it brings judgment. And and yeah. Is talking about God's judgment on each of these four nations, on Egypt. Yes. On Philistia, on Moab, on the Ammonites, on the Edomites, Damascus, the Arab tribes, Elam, and then finally Babylon. Yeah, Babylon Babylon, if you remember

Allen: the best thing in the world, which is God. Yeah. God himself. Yeah. Yeah. you said yeah, like you said, it brings judgment. And and yeah. Is talking about God's judgment on each of these four nations, on Egypt. Yes. On Philistia, on Moab, on the Ammonites, on the Edomites, Damascus, the Arab tribes, Elam, and then finally Babylon. Yeah, Babylon Babylon, if you remember

Jeramie: was raised up as God's judgment and then he brings judgment upon them. Right. So no one i i it I think there's an interesting twist here. It's like the very instrument of God's judgment right is gonna face the judgment from God himself because of their wickedness and rebellions. Like, man, everyone is being judged for the disobedience of their sins. No one's let off the hook, even when it seems like, man, are the Babylonians going to get away from get away from this? Right, right. And this is something when we get to

Allen: was raised up as God's judgment and then he brings judgment upon them. Right. So no one i it it I think there's an interesting twist here. It's like the very instrument of God's judgment right is going to face the judgment from God himself because of their wickedness and rebellions. Like, man, everyone is being judged for the disobedience of their sins. No one's let off the hook, even when it seems like, man, are the Babylonians going to get away from get away from this? Right. Right. And this is something when we get to

Jeramie: Habakkuk, you know, he's gonna explore that. Yes. Like why would God use an evil nation to be the instrument of judgment on Jerusalem? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what does Habakkuk say? kind of the same thing Jeremiah says. Don't worry, Babylon, you know, Babylon's time is coming. Yeah. All God will judge all wickedness. Yeah. Yeah. I have a question here. Again, we're talking a lot about God's wrath, God's judgment. Many, many questions probably are listeners. I think every Christian

Allen: Habakkuk, you know, he's gonna explore that. Yes. Like why would God use an evil nation to be the instrument of judgment on Jerusalem? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what does Habakkuk say? kind of the same thing Jeremiah says. Don't worry, Babylon, you know, Babylon's time is coming. Yeah. All God will judge all wickedness. Yeah. Yeah. I have a question here. Again, we're talking a lot about God's wrath, God's judgment. Mm-hmm. Many, many questions probably are listeners. I think every Christian

Jeramie: has wrestled with at one point. Is God angry? And is God angry at me? Yeah. That's yeah, that that's kind of a it's kind of a complex question in some ways. Yeah. It's one of those yes and no's, right? Right. so the first thing we want to do is distinguish God's anger from human anger. Because I think when we hear like, is God angry with me? Like

Allen: has wrestled with at one point. Is God angry? And is God angry at me? Yeah. That's yeah, that that's kind of a it's kind of a complex question in some ways. Yeah. It's one of those yes and no's, right? Right. so the first thing we want to do is distinguish God's anger from human anger. Because I think when we hear like, is God angry with me? Like

Jeramie: We just immediately think of like people we've known who are raging. Yeah. Flip it anger. Yeah. Just yeah. Or like like maybe some of us had like an angry parent. Yeah. Or maybe you had like an you know, maybe one of your parents was an a you know, a drunk. They were an alcoholic and they were a mean drunk. Yeah. So, you know, you hear God angry and the picture you have in your head is somebody who's, you know, drunk out of their minds and just abusive and raging.

Allen: we just immediately think of like people we've known who are raging. Yeah. Flip it anger. Yeah. Just yeah. Or like like maybe some of us had like an angry parent. Yeah. Or maybe you had like an you know, maybe one of your parents was an a you know, a drunk. They were an alcoholic and they were a mean drunk. Yeah. So, you know, you hear God angry and the picture you have in your head is somebody who's, you know, drunk out of their minds and just abusive and raging. or or we just think of someone like, you know, on YouTube, like going into a r a rage and you know, we all laugh at that person. Yeah. So in that sense, God is God if if that's what we mean by anger, no. Yeah. God is not an out of control, emotional, you know, lost lost is mind kind of of God. That's not God's anger. but yes, God does have anger and God is angry with sin. Mm-hmm.

Jeramie: or or we just think of someone like, you know, on YouTube, like going into a r a rage and you know, we all laugh at that person. Yeah. So in that sense, God is God if if that's what we mean by anger, no. Yeah. God is not an out of control, emotional, you know, lost, lost is mind kind of of God. That's not God's anger. but yes, God does have anger and God is angry with sin. Mm-hmm. it's you know, wrath is is his anger. So maybe the word wrath is helpful because it kind of s implies that it's it's the the response of a holy, just, pure God to wickedness and evil. And in that sense it is anger and wrath. Again, be careful of trying to understand God's anger and wrath by thinking about it through the lens of a human emotion.

Allen: it's you know, wrath is is his anger. So maybe the word wrath is helpful because it kind of implies that it's it's the the response of a holy, just, pure God to wickedness and evil. And in that sense it is anger and wrath. Again, be careful of trying to understand God's anger and wrath by thinking about it through the lens of a human emotion.

Jeramie: Because even God's anger, you know, we're using human words like anger and wrath, but it's not like God has human emotions in exactly the same way we do. Yeah. It's his it's his holiness coming in contact with our sin. Mm-hmm. And it's it's wrath. And we maybe we have a little bit of that, like when we really get indignant at some horrible evil. Yeah. Like, you know, you know, what what was that book I'm sorry, book a movie that was recently out about like human trafficking.

Allen: Because even God's anger, you know, we're using human words like anger and wrath, but it's not like God has human emotions in exactly the same way we do. Yeah. It's his it's his holiness coming in contact with our sin. Mm-hmm. And it's it's wrath. And we maybe we have a little bit of that, like when we really get indignant at some horrible evil. Yeah. Like, you know, you know, what what was that book I'm sorry, book a movie that was recently out about like human trafficking.

Jeramie: The sound of freedom. Yes. Yeah. And people watch that movie and they were just like, This is horrible. Yeah. Something should be done. And it is. Yeah. It's like human trafficking is so evil. And there's something in us that's like, We hate it, we're angry, and it must be stopped and judged. and so there's these little moments where we get that sense of of holiness in response to evil. So yeah. I mean, God is is you know, hell is the place of God's eternal fury. Yeah.

Allen: The sound of freedom. Yes. Yeah. And people watch that movie and they were just like, This is horrible. Yeah. Something should be done. And it is. Yeah. It's like human trafficking is so evil. And there's something in us that's like we hate it, we're angry, and it must be stopped and judged. and so there's these little moments where we get that sense of of holiness in response to evil. So yeah. I mean, God is is you know, hell is the place of God's eternal fury. Yeah.

Jeramie: But a holy fury against sin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And then I think for the believer, the question is, okay, well, I'm in Christ. I'm saved. God has set his love upon me. H Jesus suffered the wrath of God on the cross to assuage God's anger and deal with sin. Yep. I'm in Christ. I'm filled with the Spirit. God lives in me. He loves me. Yes. I'm a new creation. When I sin as his son or his daughter.

Allen: But a holy fury against sin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And then I think for the believer, the question is, okay, well, I'm in Christ. I'm saved. God has set his love upon me. H Jesus suffered the wrath of God on the cross to assuage God's anger and deal with sin. Yep. I'm in Christ. I'm filled with the Spirit. God lives in me. He loves me. Yes. I'm a new creation. When I sin as his son or his daughter.

Jeramie: Is God angry at me then? Not in a sense of judgment. Yeah. So if we're using anger to describe God's wrath against sin, no. Because there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Christ has the propitiation of our sins, as first John has told us. Yeah. God does discipline us. Yeah. Interestingly, Ephesians talks about grieving the Holy Spirit. So so I think like we can grieve God in that sense, but not

Allen: Is God angry at me then? Not in a sense of judgment. Yeah. So if we're using anger to describe God's wrath against sin, no. Because there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Christ is the propitiation of our sins, as first John has told us. Yeah. God does discipline us. Yeah. Interestingly, Ephesians talks about grieving the Holy Spirit. So so I think like we can grieve God in that sense, but not

Jeramie: Not in the sense of wrath and judgment. So and and I think that can be a way that y you know, we have to s again sort out maybe maybe we we have experienced a lot of human anger, and so we just kind of map that on to God. Yeah. And we're like, I blew it, God must be mad at me the way that my mom used to lose her mind or my dad used to be abusively angry. That's right. It's like, no, it's not like that.

Allen: Not in the sense of wrath and judgment. So and and I think that can be a way that y you know, we have to s again sort out maybe maybe we we have experienced a lot of human anger and so we just kind of map that on to God. Yeah. And we're like, I blew it, God must be mad at me the way that my mom used to lose her mind or my dad used to be abusively angry. That's right. It's like, no, it's not like that.

Jeramie: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, when when when we sin as a believer, it's not that God loves you any less. No. Or he doesn't treat you any differently. He treats you as a son, as a daughter, because he loves you, but there is a sense in which our sinfulness does lead to sometimes discipline. Yeah. Which is not a form of anger. It's a form of love. Right. Right. Hebrews told us as we discovered it's discipline. He's correct. He's sanctifying us even through trials and suffering. That's right. Yeah.

Allen: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, when when when we sin as a believer, it's not that God loves you any less. No. Or he doesn't treat you any differently. He treats you as a son, as a daughter, because he loves you, but there is a sense in which our sinfulness does lead to sometimes discipline. Yeah. Which is not a form of anger. It's a form of love. Right. Right. Hebrews told us as we discovered it's he's discipline. He's correct. He's sanctifying us even through trials and suffering. That's right. Yeah.

Jeramie: So I think in short you can say the believer, No, God is not angry at you. He loves you. He loves you. He loves you. Yeah. Not angry. His anger was, you know, you're his son, you're his daughter. His anger, his wrath against sin for you was poured out on his son, Jesus. That's right. Which makes the gospel just unbelievably amazing. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Good question. Yeah. It is something people wrestle with. Yeah. I mean, and sometimes people even say, like, it seems like God was just kind of

Allen: So I think in short you can say to the believer, No, God is not angry at you. He loves you. He loves you. He loves you. Yeah. Not angry. His anger was, you know, you're his son, you're his daughter. His anger, his wrath against sin for you was poured out on his son, Jesus. That's right. Which makes the gospel just unbelievably amazing. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Good question. Yeah. It is something people wrestle with. Yeah. I mean, and sometimes people even say, like, it seems like God was just kind of

Jeramie: Mad in the old testament. And then he like kind of like got nice in the New Testament. But you know, like I said, wait till we get to Revelation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'll see it. God's the same, Old New Testament. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yep. That's right. I loved your sermon illustration. You're like, Hey, go to page eight four. Yeah. And everyone's slept in there. You're like, what in the world?

Allen: Mad in the old testament. Yeah. And then he like kind of like got nice in the new testament. But you know, like I said, wait till we get to Revelation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'll see it. God's the same old New Testament. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yep. That's right. I loved your sermon illustration. You're like, hey, go to page eight four. Yeah. And everyone's sleeping there. You're like, what in the world?

Jeramie: And then it's just a blank page. We didn't talk about the in the time when there there was no word of God between the Old Testament and New Testament. Yeah, the yeah, the years of silence. Yeah, the the years of silence. But i in one sense it's funny because it's like you gotta rip those pages out because the same God from the Old Testament to New Testament. That's right. But there was some scarcity in there, but it's not like God had forgotten his people. Yeah, it's not like God changed. God is the same, people are the same. Yeah. You know, that's the thing you gotta realize. God is the same throughout all the Bible, the same yesterday, today, and forever. And people are the same.

Allen: And then it's just a blank page. We didn't talk about the old in the time when there was no word of God between the Old Testament and New Testament. Yeah, the years of silence. Yeah, the the years of silence. But i in one sense it's funny because it's like you gotta rip those pages out because the same God from the Old Testament to New Testament. That's right. But there was some scarcity in there, but it's not like God had forgotten his people. Yeah, it's not like God changed. God is the same, people are the same. Yeah. You know, that's the thing you gotta realize. God is the same throughout all the Bible, the same yesterday, today, and forever. And people are the same.

Jeramie: Like the people in the old testament times are exactly like you and me. Yeah. Spiritually, mentally, morally. We have better technology. You know, but like if if we were if you were born back then or one of them was born today, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between us and them. No. There's no difference. Yeah, that's right. It's just the times we live in in the culture and the technology. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Well, let's go to the song of songs. Yeah. Yeah.

Allen: Like the people in the old testament times are exactly like you and me. Yeah. Spiritually, mentally, morally. We have better technology. You know, but like if if we were if you were born back then or one of them was born today, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between us and them. No. There's no difference. Yeah, that's right. It's just the times we live in in the culture and the technology. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Well, let's go to the song of songs. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeramie: There's a switch in tone from Jeremiah. Yes. The Bible. What what what is Song of Songs? What's going on? Yeah, what is going on? I think a lot of Christians are scared of this book because they don't know what to do with it. Yeah. They're like, can can can we talk can we talk like this? Yeah, really. Is this in the b is it okay? What do you what do you mean? So yeah, what what is this book? What do we do with this book? I know. Well, I mean it's I think it's challenging on a number of levels. One is that it's Hebrew poetry. Yes.

Allen: There's a switch in tone from Jeremiah. Yes. The Bible. What what what is Song of Songs? What's going on? Yeah, what is going on? I think a lot of Christians are scared of this book because they don't know what to do with it. Yeah. They're like, can can can we talk can we talk like this? Yeah, really. Is this in the b is it okay? What do you what do you mean? So yeah, what what is this book? What do we do with this book? I know. Well, I mean, it's I think it's challenging on a number of levels. One is that it's Hebrew poetry. Yes.

Jeramie: that that describes things in ways we don't describe it. So it's a different kind of poetry than we use for poetry. and it's also the the imagery is very agricultural. And and we just don't, you know, like if if you said some of these things to like your spouse or your girlfriend and you tried to like compliment them with some of these, they'd be like, what? Like Your your neck is like the tower of David. Like

Allen: that that describes things in ways we don't describe it. So it's a different kind of poetry than we use for poetry. and it's also the the imagery is very agricultural. And and we just don't, you know, like if if you said some of these things to like your spouse or your girlfriend and you tried to like compliment them with some of these, they'd be like, what? Your your neck is like the tower of David. Like

Jeramie: That's good, right? Yeah. So I think like in some ways, like the the words don't impact us the same and that's where there's a sort of cultural distance from the way this was written. Interestingly, there's you know, Egyptian love poetry that this has some similarities to. So so he you know, you know, what is Song of Solomon? First and foremost, it's love poetry. Yes. Yeah. It's a book of love.

Allen: That's good, right? Yeah, yeah. So I think like in some ways, like the the words don't impact us the same but and and that and that's where there's a sort of cultural distance from the way this was written. Interestingly, there's you know, Egyptian love poetry that this has some similarities to. So so he you know, you know, what is Song of Solomon? First and foremost, it's love poetry. Yes. Yeah. It's a book of love.

Jeramie: It's a book of love between a man and a woman. Yeah. That's right. Who are about to get married. They get married after marriage. It's and especially celebrating sexual the joys of sexual intimacy and just the joys of delight in each other. Yeah. Yeah. I think yeah, the the again it's a it's a it's a love poem. And I think it's the culmination or the the magnification of what God laid down in Genesis one.

Allen: It's a book of love between a man and a woman. Yeah. That's right. Who are about to get married. They get married after marriage. It's and especially celebrating sexual the joys of sexual intimacy and just the joys of delight in each other. Yeah. Yeah. I think yeah, the the again it's a it's a it's a love poem. And I think it's the culmination or the the magnification of what God laid down in Genesis one.

Jeramie: with Adam and Eve and established a covenant marriage. Yeah. And this here is like the pinnacle. It's the climactic moment of like this is the love and union in which the husband and the wife have for one another. So God is giving us a vision and a picture of what he established and establishing it as as lovely. It's good. Like sex is God's design. It's his thing. And it's supposed to be that heightened form of of intimacy between a husband and a wife. Yeah. You know, there's that moment in

Allen: with Adam and Eve and established a covenant marriage. Yeah. And this here is like the pinnacle. It's the climactic moment of like this is the love and union which the husband and the wife have for one another. So God is giving us a vision and a picture of what he established and establishing it as as lovely. It's good. Like sex is God's design. It's his thing. And it's supposed to be that heightened form of of intimacy between a husband and a wife. Yeah. You know, there's that moment in

Jeramie: In Genesis one two, where God's, you know, Ad God brings Eve to Adam and Adam says, This is now bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh. And he's just like, Finally. And it's almost like Song of Solomon is taking that line and stretching it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like letting us into the full delights and joys. So I think you know, so Song of Solomon is wisdom literature, which means it's describing kind of the good life, the way life God intended it.

Allen: In Genesis one, two, where God's, you know, Ad God brings Eve to Adam and Adam says, This is now bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh. And he's just like, Finally. And it's almost like Song of Solomon is taking that line and stretching it out. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like letting us into the full delights and joys. So I think you know, so Song of Solomon is wisdom literature, which means it's describing kind of the good life, the way life God intended it.

Jeramie: And and it's really just giving us tons of wisdom on the nature of love between a man and woman, sexual intimacy between a man and woman, it's goodness, it's sacredness. I I think sometimes it it's funny the world can look at Christians and our sexual morality as prudish, limited, restrictive restrictive, oppressive. But it's like, you know, you guys have this like really small view of sex. I'm like, no, it's actually the opposite. Yeah.

Allen: And and it's really just giving us tons of wisdom on the nature of love between a man and woman, sexual intimacy between a man and woman, it's goodness, it's sacredness. Mm-hmm. I I think sometimes it it's funny the world can look at Christians and our sexual morality as prudish, limited, restrictive restrictive, oppressive. But it's like, you know, you guys have this like really small view of sex. I'm like, no, it's actually the opposite. Yeah.

Jeramie: Christians have a huge view of sex as something beautifully good that that is the essence of married love and commitment. It's actually the world that has a low view of sex. The world just sees it as like a biological, you know, way of of getting a quick self gratification. Self-gratification and just biological. We're like, no, it's spiritual. Yeah. And it's sacred. You know, that like the problem with the world is that it's desacralized sex. And as we want to make it sacred. Yeah.

Allen: Christians have a huge view of sex as something beautifully good that that is the essence of married love and commitment. It's actually the world that has a low view of sex. The world just sees it as like a biological, you know, way of of getting a quick self gratification. Self gratification and just biological. We're like, no, it's spiritual. Yeah. And it's sacred. You know, that like the problem with the world is that it's desacralized sex. And as we want to make it sacred. Yeah.

Jeramie: well, God has made it sacred. And so the Song of Solomon brings us into a picture of that. Yeah. And I think it it is true for some Christians, maybe grew up in traditions where it was like so heightened you know, some of you know, phrased it purity culture, where it was all about how, you know, sex was bad, you know. That's the message they got. That's the message that they got. They felt that, this is a horrible thing I need to avoid, rather than talking about the joy of what God has created within the confines

Allen: well God has made it sacred. And so the Song of Solomon brings us into a picture of that. Yeah. And I think it it is true for some Christians, maybe grew up in traditions where it was like so heightened you know, some of you know, phrased it purity culture, where it was all about how, you know, sex was bad, you know. That's the message they got. That's the message that they got. They felt that, this is a horrible thing I need to avoid, rather than talking about the joy of what God has created within the confines

Jeramie: Of a husband and a wife, but they were so, you know, just astute to the fact that of like, Hey, don't do this, it'll ruin you, or you'll give a piece of your heart away, or you'll know you'll ruin your life, or you know, things like that. But yeah. So And I also think y you know, one of the ways I use this section a as as a married man is I as I read through it, I just search my heart and I'm like, Are these do I have these kinds of affections for my wife? Mm.

Allen: Of a husband and a wife, but they were so, you know, just astute to the fact that of like, Hey, don't do this, it'll ruin you, or you'll give a piece of your heart away, or you'll know you'll ruin your life, or you know, things like that. But yeah. So And I also think y you know, one of the ways I use this section a as as a married man is I as I read through it, I just search my heart and I'm like, Are these do I have these kinds of affections for my wife? Mm-hmm.

Jeramie: And one of the things that, you know, happens when you've been married for five years, ten years, twenty years is you just you know, you you can you can neglect stoking these kinds of affections and desires for your spouse. Mm-hmm. And so Song of Solomon just it helps me as a husband to be like, you know, this is how I should feel toward my wife. And and so it's it's good for marriage. and and I think too, you know.

Allen: And one of the things that, you know, happens when you've been married for five years, ten years, twenty years is you just you know, you you can you can neglect stoking these kinds of affections and desires for your spouse. And so Song of Solomon just it helps me as a husband to be like, you know, this is how I should feel toward my wife. And and so it's it's good for marriage. and and I think too, you know.

Jeramie: By extension, then it is a picture of the love between Christ and the church. I think I think again, first and foremost, it's about love between a man and woman in marriage and the intimacy. But more than that, it ultimately because marriage points to Christ in the church. Yeah. And so anything about Christ and the ch about marriage, you know, can help us understand the love and the intimacy and the joy. that that even you know, even the the

Allen: By extension, then it is a picture of the love between Christ and the church. I think I think again, first and foremost, it's about love between a man and woman in marriage and the intimacy. But more than that, it ultimately because marriage points to Christ in the church. Yeah. And so anything about Christ and the ch about marriage, you know, can help us understand the love and the intimacy and the joy. that that even you know, even the the

Jeramie: The oneness and surrender of sexual love is then can be understood spiritually as the oneness and union and delight with Christ. Not in a sexual sense, but in a spiritual sense. So even that, you know, we c you can read this as with all scripture through the lens of Christ. Yeah. Yeah, that's good.

Allen: The oneness and surrender of sexual love is then can be understood spiritually as the oneness and union and delight with Christ. Not in a sexual sense, but in a spiritual sense. So even that, you know, we c you can read this as with all scripture through the lens of Christ. Yeah. Yeah, that's good.

Jeramie: All right, Gospel of John. Yeah. Speaking of physical things being seen through spiritual, that's one of John's themes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What what what's jumped out at you in in this section of John? Yeah. Man, I'll tell you overall, just reading through the Gospels in in youth group too, we've been going through the Gospel of Mark, preached to the youth last night on on Mark.

Allen: All right, Gospel of John. Yeah. Speaking of physical things being seen through spiritual, that's one of John's themes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What what what's jumped out at you in in this section of John? Yeah. Man, I'll tell you overall, just reading through the Gospels in in youth group too, we've been going through the Gospel of Mark, preached the youth last night on on Mark.

Jeramie: eight and you just see the heart of Jesus for people on full display. And I think you see this with with the healing, right? Which the healings at the pool on the Sabbath, there's a sick man who wanted healed, right? And you see him and he cares for his people. And it and it's doing more than this, but it's it's showing Jesus' heart for people who have been ruined, people who have been sick, people have been diseased

Allen: eight and you just see the heart of Jesus for people on full display. And and I think you see this with with the healing, right? Which the healings at the pool on the Sabbath, there's a sick man who wanted healed, right? And you see him and he cares for his people. And it and it's doing more than this, but it's it's showing Jesus's heart for people who have been ruined, people who have been sick, people have been diseased

Jeramie: And man, just the heart of Jesus for ruined sinners being magnified by his care for his people. And then ultimately this pointing to the spiritual restoration of like, man, once you're restored by Jesus, you belong to him. And then in the next section, right after that healing, it talks about Jesus' love or the Father's love for the Son and then all those who are in him. And so

Allen: And man, just the heart of Jesus for ruined sinners being magnified by his care for his people. And then ultimately this pointing to the spiritual restoration of like, man, once you're restored by Jesus, you belong to him. And then in the next section, right after that healing, it talks about Jesus' love or the father's love for the Son and then all those who are in him. And so

Jeramie: Again, that's just kind of overall big picture as I've was meditating, reading of like, Man, I am in Christ. I am loved by the Father. The Son loves me, and he came to redeem his people so that I might have life and live. That's verse twenty five. Truly, truly I say to you, an hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. So that was just some personal devotional reflections of man. And I do think the miracles of Jesus both show the

Allen: Again, that's just kind of overall big picture as I've was meditating, reading of like, Man, I am in Christ. I am loved by the Father. The Son loves me, and he came to redeem his people so that I might have life and live. That's verse twenty-five. Truly, truly I say to you, an hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. So that was just some personal devotional reflections of man. And I do think the miracles of Jesus both show the

Jeramie: The heart and the love of

Allen: the heart and the love of

Jeramie: God for ruined sinners. the other thing that the miracles do is they they show the divine identity of Jesus. Yes, that's exactly right. You know, which is interesting that one one of the John's key words that gets repeated is the word sign. he's always talking about a sign, you want a sign, they demanded a sign, this is a sign. this was the second sign he did. Yeah. So in other words, Jesus's miracles.

Allen: God for ruined sinners. the other thing that the miracles do is they they show the divine identity of Jesus. Yes, that's exactly right. You know, which is interesting that one one of the John's key words that gets repeated is the word sign. he's always talking about a sign, you want a sign, they demanded a sign, this is a sign. this was the second sign he did. Yeah. So in other words, Jesus' miracles are unique.

Jeramie: are unique in

Allen: In that they are signs of his divine identity. So that that's why, you know, when you sometimes people look at Jesus' ministry and they're like, you know, he healed people, so we need to heal people. And it's like, well, yes and no. But you know, the way he healed people is a sign. Yeah. Like one of the main purposes of the miracles is to authenticate his claims. They're revelatory. They're revealing something about Jesus. They're revealing something about Jesus. That's right. And and you know, what he's claiming is.

Jeramie: that they are signs of his divine identity. So so that that's why, you know, when you sometimes people look at Jesus' ministry and they're like, you know, he healed people, so we need to heal people. And it's like, well, y yes and no. But you know, the way he healed people is a sign. Yeah. Like one of the main purposes of the miracles is to authenticate his claims. They're revelatory. They're revealing something about Jesus. They're revealing something about Jesus. That's right. And and you know what he's claiming is like in the ears of the people, not just crazy and big, but to some of them blasphemous. you know, like Jesus said, you know, when he heals on the Sabbath, chapter five, verse 17, My Father is working until now and I am working. Yeah. So he's like, like me and the Father, God, like we're we're on the same thing. We're doing the same thing. In other words, I'm sharing his identity. Yeah. And look at verse the next very next verse 18. This is why

Allen: Like in the ears of the people, not just crazy and big, but to some of them blasphemous. you know, like Jesus said, you know, when he heals on the Sabbath, chapter five, verse 17, My Father is working until now, and I am working. Yeah. So he's like, like me and the Father, God, like we're we're on the same thing, we're doing the same thing. In other words, I'm sharing his identity. Yeah. And look at verse the next very next verse 18. This is why.

Jeramie: The Jews were seeking all the more to kill him because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling his own God, God, his own father. Here we go, making himself equal with God. Yeah. So there it is. They got it. They're like, He's saying he's God. Yeah. They under like people sometimes are like, What? Did Jesus ever say he's God? It's like, yeah. Yeah. And they had that's what they understood. Especially the again, contextually, the Jewish people would have understood what he was saying. Mm-hmm.

Allen: The Jews were seeking all the more to kill him because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling his own God, God, his own father. Here we go. Making himself equal with God. Yeah. So there it is. They got it. They're like, He's saying he's God. Yeah. They under like people sometimes are like, What? Did Jesus ever say he's God? It's like, yeah. Yeah. And they that's what they understood. Yeah, especially the again contextually, the Jewish people would have understood what he was saying. Mm-hmm.

Jeramie: And they would have understood that this is the most heinous offense that you could make. It's blasphemy. It's blasphemy. Right. Yeah. Which gets lost on us as contemporary readers. They would have heard that like, my gosh, you could not commit a worse crime or act than to call yourself equal with God. He's not just a prophet doing a miracle like Elijah. He is saying, God works, I work. I'm doing I am God working. Yes. Is basically what he's saying.

Allen: And they would have understood that this is the most heinous offense that you could make. It's blasphemy. It's blasphemy. Right. Yeah. Which gets lost on us as contemporary readers. They would have heard that like, my gosh, you could not commit a worse crime or act than to call yourself equal with God. He's not just a prophet doing a miracle like Elisha. Yeah. He is saying, God works, I work. Mm hmm. I'm doing I am God working. Yes. Is basically what he's saying.

Jeramie: So it's like, okay, that's crazy. So he's like, Well well, let me prove it to you. Yeah. Look at the signs. Mm-hmm. These are the evidences that I'm not just a madman saying blasphemous things. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. He says true this nineteen, Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of his own accord. Whoa. What do you mean by that, Jesus? Well, but only what he sees the Father is doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing.

Allen: So it's like, okay, that's crazy. So he's like, well, well, let me prove it to you. Yeah. Look at the signs. Mm-hmm. These are the evidences that I'm not just a madman saying blasphemous things. Yeah, yeah. He says true this is 19. Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of his own accord. Whoa. What do you mean by that, Jesus? Well, but only what he sees the Father is doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing.

Jeramie: In greater works than these will show him, so that you may marvel. So there's a kind of Trinitarian nature here, which says that the Father and the Son are doing the same thing. Now, of course, you're like, Well, where's the Holy Spirit? Well, the Holy Spirit, you know, he's not fully manifest and given at this point in the narrative in John's gospel, but we do know that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are all working together in the to accomplish one purpose, which is that that you may marvel.

Allen: In greater works than these will show him, so that you may marvel. So there's a kind of Trinitarian nature here, which says that the Father and the Son are doing the same thing. Now, of course, you're like, Well, where's the Holy Spirit? Well, the Holy Spirit, you know, he's not fully manifest and given at this point in the narrative in John's gospel, but we do know that the Father and the Son and the Spirit are all working together in the to accomplish one purpose, which is that that you may marvel.

Jeramie: At God and that you would behold him and see him and say, This is the Father. This is God revealing himself as Father, Son, and Spirit, and this is who we will worship. And in you know, we we know you're doing pursuing theological studies. have have you guys it in your systematic theology, have you guys talked about the idea of inseparable operations? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the idea that you can't separate the works of God into each person of the Trinity.

Allen: At God and that you would behold him and see him and say, This is the Father. This is God revealing Himself as Father, Son, and Spirit, and this is who we will worship. And in you know, we we know you're doing pursuing theological studies. have have you guys it in your systematic theology, have you guys talked about the idea of inseparable operations? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the idea that you can't separate the works of God into each person the Trinity.

Jeramie: It's not like it's not like all right, the father's gonna go over here and do this, yeah, and the son's gonna go over there and do that. They don't like delegate, like they're all operating together. So yeah, so that when the father and the son, you know, when the son is working, the father's working and the spirit is poured out and the spirit is working. So they they are inseparable because there's one God, there's not three gods. Yeah. To to get to push a little bit more on the theological side as well, the theologians talk about well, how many wills are there? How many wills does Jesus have?

Allen: It's not like it's not like all right, the father's gonna go over here and do this. Yeah. And the son's gonna go over there and do that. They don't like delegate. Like they're all operating together. So yeah. So that when the father and the son, you know, when the son is working, the father's working, and the spirit is poured out and the spirit is working. So they they are inseparable because there's one God. There's not three gods. Yeah. To to get to push a little bit more on the theological side as well, the theologians talk about well, how many wills are there? How many wills does Jesus have?

Jeramie: How many wills does God have? Well, Jesus has two wills, a divine will and a human will. His human nature, divine nature. Yeah, that's right. And so there's a sense in which the divine will is a father, son, and spirit inseparably operating together. But Jesus did have a human will as well at the same time, but it's all united under his one. sorry, that's not the best language on that. Right. it's not his one person. Yeah, one person working. Yeah. That's right. One yeah, one person and two natures. Mm-hmm.

Allen: How many wills does God have? Well, Jesus has two wills, a divine will and a human will. His human nature, divine nature. Yeah, that's right. And so there's a sense in which the divine will is the father, son, and spirit inseparably operating together. But Jesus did have a human will as well at the same time, but it's all united under his one. sorry, that's not the best language on that. Right. it's not his one person. Yeah, one person working. Yeah. That's right. One yeah, one person and two natures. Mm-hmm.

Jeramie: Yeah, that's right. So so this is, you know, one of the things I love about John is it's like we get these little peaks behind the curtain into the Trinity himself, into into the the divine trinity, a father, son, and spirit. And there's one, you know, the father s loves the son and shows him all that he's doing. So Jesus is basically saying, like, I know everything God's doing. I know everything the Father's doing. And that again, that just not even a prophet could say that. Yeah.

Allen: Yeah, that's right. So so this is, you know, one of the things I love about John is it's like we get these little peaks behind the curtain into the Trinity himself, into into the the divine trinity, a father, son, and spirit. And there's one, you know, the father s loves the son and shows him all that he's doing. So Jesus is basically saying, like, I know everything God's doing. I know everything the Father's doing. And that again, that just not even a prophet could say that. Yeah.

Jeramie: That you know, prophets got little bits and pieces of words revealed, but he's like, I know everything God's doing, and I'm doing it with him. Mm-hmm. these are great. You you also get s w wonderful truths here. Verse twenty five, truly, truly I say to you, an hour is coming and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. And so there's a sense in which we currently now hear Jesus' voice through the gospel.

Allen: That you know, prophets got little bits and pieces of words revealed, but he's like, I know everything God's doing, and I'm doing it with him. Mm-hmm. these are great. You you also get s w wonderful truths here. Verse twenty five, truly, truly I say to you, an hour is coming and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. And so there's a sense in which we currently now hear Jesus' voice through the gospel.

Jeramie: And the Holy Spirit comes to us and we have we come to spiritual life. and again, verse twenty six, for as the Father has life in himself, he's granted the Son to have life in himself. So Jesus is not just alive, he has self existence life. He is the I am. Yeah. he is the burning bush that requires no fuel. He has life in himself. That's only God has that. Yeah. and then and then we have the so right now life is coming, but

Allen: And the Holy Spirit comes to us and we have we come to spiritual life. and again, verse 26, for as the Father has life in himself, he's granted the Son to have life in himself. So Jesus is not just alive, he has self existence life. He is the I am. Yeah. he is the burning bush that requires no fuel. He has life in himself. That's only God has that. Yeah. and then and then we have the so right now life is coming, but

Jeramie: Eventually when Jesus comes back, there will be resurrection life in a different way. Verse 28, do not marvel at this for an hour is coming when all who are in their tombs will hear the vo his voice and come out. Those who've done good to the resurrection of life, those who've done evil to the resurrection of judgment. So there is coming a judgment day when we will physically be raised from the dead, some to life, some to destruction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that next section, kind of, you know, thinking about

Allen: Eventually, when Jesus comes back, there will be resurrection life in a different way. Verse 28, do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in their tombs will hear the vo his voice and come out. Those who've done good to the resurrection of life, those who've done evil to the resurrection of judgment. So there is coming a judgment day when we will physically be raised from the dead, some to life, some to destruction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that next section, kind of, you know, thinking about

Jeramie: Jesus and you know there's a lot there we could cover probably won't have time to be able to cover it all. Yeah. But there's a reality of which Jesus again he's explaining that he's come in the Father's name. He's he's sent from the Father, he's come, he is God. and forty four through forty seven is great text. How can you believe when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you.

Allen: Jesus and it you know there's a lot there we could cover probably won't have time to be able to cover it all. Yeah. But there's a reality of which Jesus again he's explaining that he's come in the Father's name. He's he's sent from the Father, he's come, he is God. and forty four through forty seven is great text. How can you believe when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you.

Jeramie: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believe Moses Moses, hear this, you would believe me, for he wrote of me. What, Jesus? Right. I mean, again, that's that's amazing. Yeah. You're like, But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? So, in other words, Jesus perceived himself. Put it this way Jesus read the old testament through the lens of himself. Yeah. He's like, This is a this is a book about me. It's re yeah. Moses wrote about me. Yeah.

Allen: Moses on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses Moses, hear this, you would believe me, for he wrote of me. What, Jesus? Right. I mean, again, that's that's amazing. Yeah. You're like, if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? So in other words, Jesus perceived himself. Put it this way Jesus read the old testament through the lens of himself. Yeah. He's like, This is a this is a book about me. It's yeah. Moses wrote about me. Yeah.

Jeramie: Pretty i it's kind of wild. I mean, verse thirty-nine, go back a few verses. You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they that bear witness about me. Yeah. So so in other words, all of the old testament is ultimately about Jesus. Yeah. The the writings of Moses are about Jesus. He's like, if you guys are really the Bible experts you claim to be, then you would know I'm here. I'm the answer to all of the riddles.

Allen: Pretty i it's kinda wild. I mean, verse thirty-nine, go back a few verses. You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they that bear witness about me. Yeah. So so in other words, all of the old testament is ultimately about Jesus. Yeah. The the writings of Moses are about Jesus. He's like, if you guys are really the Bible experts you claim to be, then you would know I'm here. I'm the answer to all of the riddles,

Jeramie: Prophecies, types,

Allen: prophecies, types. Mm-hmm. Foreshadowings all in Christ. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. another theological term, just the idea of progressive revelation. Yes. Is that God is progressively revealing himself. And so, yes, Jesus is prefigured, shadowed, talked about. one of my I think this is from BB Warfield, but one of my sisters or John Webster, maybe. the idea of progressive revelation will, you know, if you walk into a library and the lights are off

Jeramie: foreshadowings all in Christ. Yeah. Yeah. another theological term, just the idea of progressive revelation. Yes. Is that God is progressively revealing himself. And so yes, Jesus is prefigured, shadowed, talked about. one of my I think this is from BB Warfield, but one of my sisters or John Webster, maybe. the idea of progressive revelation will, you know, if you walk into a library and the lights are off. And you can't really see anything, but you can kind of feel around. You can feel that there's books and bookshelves, maybe some tables and desks.

Allen: and you can't really see anything, but you can kind of feel around, you can feel that there's books and bookshelves, maybe some tables and desk, but you can kind of like know maybe this is a library, but you can't really see it. And then all of a sudden the lights get turned on and you see the grandeur of the library of the a magnet, you know, the magnitude of everything that's there. And that's kind of how progressive revelation is working. It's like you could see it, but then it's like boom, Jesus turned the lights on and you see him. You're like, whoa, this is who of that Moses was writing about and that the old testament

Jeramie: But you can kind of like know maybe this is a library, but you can't really see it. And then all of a sudden the lights get turned on and you see the grandeur of the library of the a magnet you know, the magnitude of everything that's there. And that's kind of how progressive revelation is working. It's like you could see it, but then it's like boom, Jesus turned the lights on and you see him. And you're like, Whoa, this is who of that Moses was writing about and that the old testament. was revealing about Jesus. Yeah, that's right. And and so now it's and basically he's like, this is the

Allen: was revealing about Jesus. Yeah, that's right. And and so now it's and basically he's like this is the

Jeramie: this is what you've been waiting for, but they can't see it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the signs. Hey guys, believe the signs. Yeah. Look, I'm like doing things that no one's ever done. Like, you know, I'm giving sight to the blind. I'm you know, raising the dead. Yeah. Feeding the five thousand is the next part. And then he walks on water. He walks on water. So these are all the signs. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

Allen: This is what you've been waiting for, but they can't see it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the signs. Hey guys, believe the signs. Yeah. Look, I'm like doing things that no one's ever done. Like, you know, I'm giving sight to the blind. I'm, you know, raising the dead. Yeah. Feeding the five thousand is the next part. And then he walks on water. He walks on water. So these are all the signs. Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

Jeramie: One last comment on John before we maybe maybe we move on. I'm ski six twenty. This is after Jesus is walking on the water.

Allen: one last comment on John before maybe maybe we move on. I'm ski six twenty. This is after Jesus is walking on the water.

Jeramie: You know, the sea was was rough. There's a strong wind blowing. and Jesus is walking on water, and you said to him, to them, It is I. Do not be afraid. Yeah. It is I. Which another which starts in the next section, right? Is the I am statements of Jesus. That's right. Yeah, but it is I. Well, what is he doing? He's saying it is I. The one that this sign is signifying the I am God.

Allen: You know, the sea was was rough, there's a strong wind blowing, and Jesus is walking on water, and you said to him, to them, It is I. Do not be afraid. Yeah. It is I, which another which starts in the next section, right? Is the I am statements of Jesus. That's right. Yeah, but it is I. Well, what is he doing? He's saying, It is I, the one that this sign is signifying that I am God.

Jeramie: I am the one who has authority. I am the son of God. It's I. And that's what have they would have well, they didn't understand, but they were supposed to

Allen: I am the one who has authority, I am the son of God. It's I. And that's what have they would have un what they didn't understand, but they were supposed to.

Jeramie: that this Jesus is. I mean, Jesus is or God in the Old Testament is the one who walks on the on the waves. He's the one who walks on the sea. Mm-hmm. So, again, just over and over the divine identity of Jesus with the Father is on display in John. And that's why they want to kill him. They they like they weren't missing what he was saying. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Allen: That this Jesus is I mean, Jesus is God in the old testament is the one who walks on the on the waves. Yeah. He's the one who walks on the sea. Mm-hmm. So again, just over and over the divine identity of Jesus with the Father is on display in John. And that's why they want to kill him. They they like they weren't missing what he was saying. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeramie: first Peter. Yeah. starting a new book. We finished up James. Now we're into First Peter. And

Allen: first Peter. Yeah. starting a new book. We finished up James. Now we're into first Peter and

Jeramie: First Peter is a great book, especially for the church and Christians when they are suffering at the hands of the world, when they're experiencing a a disconnect between them and the world. You know, even it's interesting how Peter starts the whole thing. He says

Allen: First Peter is a great book, especially for the church and Christians when they are suffering at the hands of the world, when they're experiencing a a disconnect between them and the world. You know, even it's interesting how Peter starts the whole thing. He says

Jeramie: Verse one p of chapter one, Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ to those who are egg elect

Allen: verse one p of chapter one Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ to those who are ig elected.

Jeramie: exiles. So he's like, Your fundamental identity isn't Roman citizens or people living in certain areas, but he's like, You're exiles, your real home is in heaven. You're now it's kind of like your expats. Yeah. You know, you're you're living as foreigners even in this world.

Allen: Exiles. So he's like, your fundamental identity isn't Roman citizens or people living in certain areas, but he's like, Your exiles, your real home is in heaven. You're now it's kinda like your expats. Yeah. You know, you're you're living as foreigners even in this world.

Jeramie: And so th that that's kind of this framework then that that sets up some of the major themes in Peter. One is suffering.

Allen: And so th that's kind of this framework then that that sets up some of the major themes in Peter. One is suffering.

Jeramie: Therefore, don't be surprised the world hates you. Don't be surprised of conflict. And the other is holiness. You know, we need to live as a set apart people who are no longer living like the world. Mm-hmm. you know, because we're we're from a different people. Yeah.

Allen: Therefore, don't be surprised the world hates you. Don't be surprised of conflict. And the other is holiness. You know, we need to live as a set apart people who are no longer living like the world. you know, because we're we're from a different people. Yeah. you know, I l like if you go to chapter two, verse nine, you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation. By the way, that's Israel language now applied to the church. That's right. A people for his own per possession.

Jeramie: You know, I love like if you go to chapter two, verse nine, you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation. By the way, that's Israel language now applied to the church. That's right. A people for his own per possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies who called you out darkness into his light. verse eleven, brothers, I urge you as sojourners in exile, so because we don't belong to this world anymore, abstain from the passions of the flesh which war against your soul.

Allen: That you may proclaim the excellencies who called you out darkness into his light. or verse eleven, brothers, I urge you as sojourners in exile. So because we don't belong to this world anymore, abstain from the passions of the flesh which war against your soul.

Jeramie: Then look at verse 12. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable. What's amazing is he's writing to former Gentiles. Yeah. But now he's like, he's talking to them like they're not Gentiles. Yeah, that's right.

Allen: Then look at verse twelve. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable. What's amazing is he's writing to former Gentiles. Yeah. But now he's like he's talking to them like they're not Gentiles. Yeah, that's right.

Jeramie: Yeah. Yeah. And that's because they're not. They're now they're not Jew or Gentile. They're Christian. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. They're in Christ. In in that same language you said, Old Testament language. back in chapter one, Peter's calling the people, he says, For you shall be you shall be holy, for I am holy. Well, what's he quoting? He's quoting.

Allen: Yeah. Yeah. And that same language they're not. They're now they're not Jew or Gentile. They're Christian. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. They're in Christ. In in that same language he said, Old Testament language. back in chapter one, Peter's calling the people, he says, For you shall be you shall be holy, for I am holy. Well, what's he quoting? He's

Jeramie: Quoting the law, Leviticus 1144. That's right. That's right. So he's calling, he's identifying these people as the people of God and says, I'm calling you to be holy, to be a new people, to be my people, right?

Allen: quoting the law, Leviticus eleven forty four. That's right. That's right. So he's calling, he's identifying these people as the people of God and says, I'm calling you to be holy, to be a new people, to be my people, right?

Jeramie: there's a lot of good just gospel hope in this text. You know, it's just saturated with the hope that they have. One, one, two verses, there is really sweet, really sweet promise that when I was reading this week, just you know, as electric.

Allen: There's a lot of good just gospel hope in this text. You know, it's just f saturated with the hope that they have. One one two verses, there is really sweet, really sweet promise that when I was reading this week, just you know, as elect

Jeramie: Exiles as those who are sojourners in a foreign world, because this is not our h homeland. Here's the here's the hope. Verse eight Though you have not seen him, you love him. That's interesting. I haven't seen Jesus, but I but you love him.

Allen: exiles, as those who are sojourners in a foreign world, because this is not our h homeland, here's the here's the hope. Verse eight Though you have not seen him, you love him. That's interesting. I haven't seen Jesus, but I but you love him. though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible. There's an inexpressible joy that believers have and filled with glory. And here's why obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls,

Jeramie: though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible. There's an inexpressible joy that believers have and filled with glory, and here's why obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls. Which here is speaking of the glorification when Christ returned. That hey, why do you have so much joy that is inexpressible in love? Because Jesus is gonna come back, you're gonna be glorified, and then that Jesus that you have not seen, you will see face

Allen: which here is speaking of the glorification when Christ returned. That hey, why do you have so much joy that is inexpressible in love? Because Jesus is going to come back, you're going to be glorified, and then that Jesus that you have not seen, you will see. face to face. And that's a promise that believers need to hold on to. How do you, you know, live as a sojourner in an exile in a foreign world? Well, you remember, I'm bound for the promised land. Yeah, that's right. That that that's the the the hard side of being in exile is we're out of step with our society

Jeramie: to face. And that's a promise that believers need to hold on to. How do you, you know, live as a sojourner in an exile in a foreign world? Well, you remember, I am bound for the promised land. Yeah, that's right. That that that's the the the hard side of being in exile is we're out of step with our society. And we're sometimes persecuted by society. The the good thing about being exile is we're going home. Yeah. We're going home. We're going home. And and it's gonna be awesome. We're going, we're gonna see our savior,

Allen: and we're sometimes persecuted by society. The the good thing about being exile is we're going home. Yeah. We're going home. We're going home. And and it's gonna be awesome. We're going we're gonna see our savior

Jeramie: we're gonna see his glory, we're gonna receive that which we're waiting for. So like like we're definitely getting you know the better end of the deal. Yeah. so so I think it's it's it's just a reminder for how we live in this world.

Allen: we're gonna see his glory, we're gonna receive that which we're waiting for. So like like we're definitely getting, you know, the better end of the deal. Yeah. so I think it's it's it's just a reminder for how we live in this world.

Jeramie: I think this is helpful for us as Americans. I I I think one of the things as Americans that disconnects us from First Peter is we have happened we've happened to live in a country that for many decades and even centuries

Allen: I think this is helpful for us as Americans. I I I think one of the things as Americans that disconnects us from First Peter is we have happened we've happened to live in a country that for many decades and even centuries,

Jeramie: l kind of lived in a a generally Christian esque

Allen: l kind of lived in a generally Christian-esque worldview. Yes. So that so that things the morality, for instance, of the Bible was generally backed by society. There's a lot of Christians in America. many of our founders were Christians. There's there's biblical principles baked into some of our

Jeramie: worldview. Yes. So that so that things the morality, for instance, of the Bible was generally backed by society. There's a lot of Christians in America. Many of our founders were Christians. There's there's biblical principles baked into some of our

Allen: you know, documents and things. So because of that, it's not like Christians around the world for whom they're like, yeah, our sus we're out of step with our society.

Jeramie: you know, documents and things. So because of that, it's not like Christians around the world for whom they're like, yeah, our sus we're out of step with our society. You know, if if you're a Christian who comes faith in a Muslim country or a Hindu country or something like that context, like you're gonna feel like an expat in exile. Yeah. And there's gonna be persecution. So I think, you know, as as we see our culture shifting away from that kind of Christianized background,

Allen: You know, if if you're a Christian who comes faith in a Muslim country or a Hindu country or something like that context, like you're gonna feel like an expat in exile. Yeah. And there's gonna be persecution. So I think, you know, as as we see our culture shifting away from that kind of Christianized background,

Jeramie: I think first Peter is a book that we can rediscover to help us be like, all right, don't be surprised by persecution. Yep. live a holy life.

Allen: I think First Peter is a book that we can rediscover to help us be like, All right, don't be surprised by persecution. live a holy life,

Jeramie: Live distinct from the society around you. And as society gets darker, you gotta live brighter and and be distinct. And then set your hope like you said, s don't set your hope on the society or fixing the society. Set your hope on the coming kingdom. Yeah. Yeah. Amen.

Allen: live distinct from the society around you. And as society gets darker, you gotta live brighter and and be distinct. And then set your like you said, s don't set your hope on the society or fixing the society. Set your hope on the coming kingdom. Yeah. Yeah. Amen.

Jeramie: So that's why, you know, in verses thirteen to seventeen, for instance, he's talking about how we live in front of the the culture around us, you know. Be subject to, for the Lord's sake, to every human institution, whether it be the emperor supreme or to governors or to the as though sent by him to punish those who do evil and praise those who do good. Yeah. For this is the will of God that by doing this you shall put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. So he's like, Be good citizens. Yeah.

Allen: So that's why, you know, in verses thirteen to seventeen, for instance, he's talking about how we live in front of the the culture around us, you know. Be subject to, for the Lord's sake, to every human institution, whether it be the emperor supreme or to governors or to the as those sent by him to punish those who do evil and praise those who do good. Yeah. For this is the will of God that by doing this you shall put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. So he's like, Be good citizens. Yeah.

Jeramie: For the sake of our witness, because he's assuming the society is looking askance at the Christians. Yeah. Yeah. The in 1617, live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover up for evil, but living as servants of God. Like, don't use your freedom as a Christian for evil, but for God. And then here's like a little kind of like creedle statement of like a couple commands. Honor everyone, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the emperor. What an interesting, like little like imperative section of like, here's what you do.

Allen: For the sake of our witness, because he's assuming the society is looking askance at the Christians. Yeah. Yeah. The in 1617, live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover up for evil, but living as servants of God. Like don't use your freedom as a Christian for evil, but for God. And then here's like a little kind of like creedle statement of like a couple commands. Honor everyone, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the emperor. What an interesting, like little like imperative section of like here's what you do. That's right.

Jeramie: That's right. Honor

Allen: Honor ever so show everyone the honor they deserve. Love the brethren's, love the Christians. Yep. They're your family. Yeah. Fear God. And then honor the emperor. I mean, like the Emperor was not a good guy. Yes. The Emperor thought he was God. Right. The Emperor was evil. Yeah. But it's like, honor the Emperor. Yeah. Yeah. And so you know, that's the kind of like a roadmap for how to navigate the complexities of living in a hostile culture. Yeah, that's right. Which hopefully, you know, again

Jeramie: ever so show everyone the honor they deserve. Love the brethreners. Love the Christians. Yep. They're your family. Yeah. Fear God. And then honor the Emperor. I mean, like the Emperor was not a good guy. Yes. The Emperor thought he was God. Right. The Emperor was evil. Yeah. But it's like, honor the Emperor. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, that's kind of like a roadmap for how to navigate the complexities of living in a hostile culture. Yeah, that's right. Which hopefully, you know, again First Peter is a book that I think will become increasingly, I'm sorry to say, helpful to us as Christians. I suspect. Yeah. Hope I'm wrong. Yes. Well, again, the whole point or one of the points is that this is not our homeland. Jesus will come, he will subdue evil completely and finally, and all those who trust in Christ will be raised. And though we have not seen him, we will see him and will be in like him and see him and love him. So there's a future hope.

Allen: First Peter is a book that I think will become increasingly, I'm sorry to say, helpful to us as Christians. I suspect. Yeah. Hope I'm wrong. Yes. Well, again, the whole point or one of the points is that this is not our homeland. Jesus will come. He will subdue evil completely and finally. And all those who trust in Christ will be raised. And though we have not seen him, we will see him and will be in my like him and see him and love him. So there's a future hope.

Jeramie: For those who maybe are feeling a little bit stressed, a little bit worried, it's an election cycle coming up right now. Yeah, we all get worked up over that. What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen? The most important election of our lifetime. We're told again and again. Yeah, that's right. Yes. Well, we pr praise you, Lord, for just what you're doing in our church. I hope that yeah, yeah, our people would would see what God is doing in our church.

Allen: For those who maybe are feeling a little bit stressed, a little bit worried, it's an election cycle coming up right now. Yeah, we all get worked up over that. What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen? The most important election of our lifetime. We're told again and again. Yeah, that's right. Yes. Well, we pr praise you, Lord, for just what you're doing in our church. I hope that yeah, yeah, our people would would see what God is doing in our church.

Jeramie: We love doing these. We love hearing from you guys. Keep pressing on, knowing that you do have a promised land and in Christ and a future resurrection. This has been another episode of the SCC Saber Podcast. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, and on Spotify. Until next time.

Allen: We love doing these. We love hearing from you guys. Keep pressing on, knowing that you do have a promised land in Christ and a future resurrection. This has been another episode of the SCC Saber Podcast. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, and on Spotify. Till next time.