USCGA Alumni Association: Welcome to Fifty Years of Her Story, a podcast from the U.S. Coast Guard Academy Alumni Association. I am your host, Nicole Bogden, Class of 2012. This series honors the women who helped shape the Coast Guard Academy over the past 50 years, the pioneers who opened doors, challenged expectations, and fought to create opportunities for the generations that followed. In this episode, I am joined by Linda McTeague, Coast Guard Academy class of nineteen eighty. Linda's story begins long before she ever arrived in New London. Raised by a mother who actively fought for women's equality, Linda entered the Academy as part of the very first class of women, carrying both the opportunities and expectations created by those who fought to open those doors. What followed was a journey marked by resilience, isolation, leadership, and difficult choices. From navigating harassment and hostility at the Academy to building a groundbreaking career in the technology industry. Linda's story reflects both the cost and the impact of being among the first. This is Linda's Hearst Story. Welcome to Fifty Years of Her Story. How are you? I'm fine. It's a pleasure to be with you, Nicole. Thank you for inviting me. Of course, of course. We're so excited for you to be here today. And to kick off your story, I wanted to talk about all the things that happened before you actually made it to the academy, and that process leading up to actually getting you here because there is quite the backstory for your journey. Yes, there is. My mother was a single mom. She fought for women's rights her entire life. She always aspired to be in positions that men held. And as such, she thought all women should be able to do any job they wanted to do. She got involved with the National Business and Professional Women's Organization, and they lobbied Congress and their congressmen as well as President Nixon to open the academies to women because as taxpayers, They were women, they were working, they were taxpayers, and they believed that their daughters should have the opportunity to go to the academies as much as their sons. So she fought diligently, and the academy applications happened in the year I was about to apply to college. Therefore, I had very little choice in applying to college. And I was lucky to get an appointment to West Point. I think primarily because my mother had spent so much time with the congressman that when we walked in the door for my interview, they were chit-chatting about this, that, and the other thing, at which point I knew my fate was sealed and I was probably gonna get into one of the service academies. I chose the academy because it was a life-saving service. And because I had lived close to the ocean and I knew People in our school who are from the Coast Guard station and I thought the Coast Guard had a lot better locations and thought saving lives was a much better purpose than taking lives. However, my plan actually was to go to MIT the whole time. Okay. So secretly you were thinking I'll apply. I'm probably gonna get in because mom's on a first name basis with the congressman, but I'm still gonna go to MIT either way. Yeah. That was exactly my thinking. And that didn't happen. And that didn't happen. No. I ended up at the academy 'cause my mother has incredible bargaining skills. And she basically said, if you go to the academy, try it, and for every semester you go, get a free education, I'll give you the tuition money so you can buy a car. And I wanted nothing more than a car at that age. Car was freedom, so I thought, okay, what do I have to lose? I'll go for the summer. If I don't like it, I'll leave. There is a story about your actual trip to the academy for our day. Yeah, reporting in day was my 18th birthday. We left Long Island and drove I-95 up to the Academy, and my dad kept turning around because I cried the entire way to the Academy. And he would turn around and my mother would say, No no, launch forward. And we would go forward and backward and forward. So we eventually did arrive at the academy and I was late. So the upperclassman said, Donnie, if this had been a ship, you would have missed it. Another one of my classmates was also late and we're bonded for life because we did a lot of push-ups for being late. So yay! What a way to make a friend right off the bat. What about yeah. Darren Walters is still a friend. Were you often late after that? Or that scared you straight to always being on time? I still believe five minutes early is late. Yeah, I'm in that. You get to the academy, you have you stay for the summer, swab summer, you make it through. Right, so I got through the summer, and when you get through the summer, it's like, well, if I made it through that. How bad can the next semester be? And there's money at the end of that semester for the car. So I might as well try it and stay for the summer. So at that point I did. I was able to somehow defer MIT. I don't remember. At some point in the summer, I think I had to tell them I wasn't coming. So then I decided to stay. And I have to say that some of my classmates, like Captain Joanne McCaffrey, were very persuasive. And we need to do this because we need to prove that women can do this. So there was a lot of encouragement from classmates to stay as well. And also from the gymnastics coach, who really was incredibly welcoming to women. Coach Cardinelli had done a lot to set up the obstacle course, to have a gymnastics team, to have equipment and to really welcome us and to make the gym a safe place and a comfortable home. And he let us know in the summer that he had done all that so that we would have that camaraderie with other gymnasts. Wow. We would be at gymnastics tables, et cetera, et cetera. So I think Coach Cardinelli ha played a significant role that summer. Aw, that's amazing. I I feel like I've heard from others that there wasn't a lot of pre-work to be done to get ready for women and welcome women and have them feel welcomed and to even just have a coach do that was probably huge in feeling safe or that somebody did actually care outside of just the women in the class of 80. So we get into fourth class year, the school year, the academic year, and you were known for being a top performer in the academic setting. Was that something that you felt gave you a little safety or did that kind of make you feel like you were a target for others? I don't know when you were there how it worked, but for us at the end of the first semester, they announced who was number one in the class and all these awards happened and you walked across the stage and there's the American Daughters of the Revolution and the Irwin Award and the this award and the that award. And at that point I was told I was gonna be walking across stage. I didn't know why I was walking across the stage. And then after I got the award, there were both congratulations. And there was a lot of resentment because I think a lot of the men in our class as well as upper classmen did not want a woman to be number one in the class, the first year woman. And so as much it was an honor, it was all it also came with a ton of harassment the following semester. The first semester I had a silver star, a military star, as well as a gold star. I never again had a Silver Star. It just didn't happen. The Silver Star was for military performance. Correct. Where the adapts were that you're ranked by your subordinates, your superiors, and your peers, right? So with that 360 ranking, that was never gonna happen. Because there was a lot of there was a lot of harassment actually for being number one. I'm so sorry that you had to experience that. I do want to talk a little bit about that harassment and what was happening, but then also your inability to talk to supervisors about it and seek help. What was that experience like for you? So I'll summarize the harassment was primarily to have me spend so much time cleaning my room because of the inspections that happened in the morning that I would be unable to study. I think that was kind of the theme of the shaving cream bombs, the baby powder with the vacuum in reverse going under the door. The honey everywhere in my room that had to be cleaned up. Honey attracts a lot of those little dust bunny things, by the way. And so if you haven't had your room honeyed, you don't know the what a dust bun dust bunny is. There was a lot of at one point there was something in the New London Day. It was a Haynes nylon. ad and it said something like, You're number one, you think you're great, da da and it kept appearing on my name tag when you're not allowed to have anything on your name tag. And they kept appearing and they had cut out stacks and stacks from the New London Day. They kept sticking on my door and I'd have to go out and take it down, go out and take it down. So combined with the messing up of my drawers and I s was forever cleaning my room. I can just tell you that. At one point after the big stacks, I was encouraged by some of my female classmates to go to my TAC officer, which I did. And I went in and I explained the c countless cleaning of the room events and I sh said I felt like I was being harassed and I brought in this huge stack. I mean, by then it was it was this huge stack. And said you were not allowed to have things on our name tags. These appear every two minutes. I go out there, I take them down. And as I went through all of the things that were happening, he looked at me and he said, Let's pray. At which point I thought, This is hopeless. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna have any support at all from my superior. officer here. And I went to the payphone, I called my mom and she said she was gonna come immediately take I was at an all time low. She was gonna immediately take me out of the academy and take me to my congressman's office. no. Which would have been your superior, superior, superior, which would have been a really and I s tried to explain to her AWAL and going to military prison was not something I was interested in doing, so I'll be fine, mom. So sh I went back and decided that there there was no support to be had and I was just gonna use my brain and I was gonna hide in the library and I was gonna clean my room as much as it took and I was going to do the best I could and show them that a woman could be number one four semesters in a row. you mentioned your mom, she did so much groundwork to get you the ability to even apply to the academy and Then you're at the academy doing something that she dreamed for you and now you're calling her in a situation that's not great. Enough for her to almost come get you and take you away from something she fought so hard for. What was that relationship like between you and her? She had this, I think, maybe grand planned idea for women entering the academy and now that you're there it's not going well. Is that something she struggled with or did it affect your relationship with her? I was surprised when she said she was going to come take me out of there. However, I think she was surprised too because it was one of the events that even as she aged, she remembered that call. And I think she was incredibly torn. No, you can do this fight for women. On the other hand, I was at an all-time low, but her way was not. that I was gonna quit or leave. It's that we were gonna go to the congressman and fix it. Right. Yep. So I don't think she was thinking this would be an exit point. She was thinking this would be a I'm gonna make it better for women at the Academy in general by getting Congress involved. Which looking back on some of the things that happened with Phoul Anchor and all the other things, I wonder if I should have let my mother Take me AWOL to my Congress. Yeah. I yeah, I wonder if that would have changed anything or not. who knows? But it's good that your mom was ready to support at you know, the pickup of a phone and try and fix it. And it just sounds like you two are similar in that way of fighting constantly for your right to do anything. Right. And I also knew enough that it was not gonna be a good idea to skip that many levels of management and go which is a life skill in the corporate world, in the military, anywhere. Right. Which is not usually good to jump rank quite so high. Right. I tell my kids all the time, figure it out amongst yourselves. Like you don't need to come to me for everything. Figure it out. You don't need to go to your congressman for everything. Right. Although my mother Clearly did for a lot of things. It does work for some things. You were top of your class the entire time you were at the academy, correct? Correct. So you're succeeding academically, you have found your group of friends, you're playing sports and you're persevering through this really hard time. I can't think of it not being hard at any point, you know, and it's impressive and incredible. And then you go and you have a conversation with the dean who brings up this possibility that while you are excelling in every area, you still may not get the same opportunities as men. What was that conversation and what was that like for you to hear it from somebody so high up in the chain of command? I knew the dean because I was his daughter and I were dating brothers at the time. So just to put it in perspective, I did have a little bit of a personal connection, but not that much. So when he called me into his office of course I was worried. I didn't know I always you know when you get called by anybody, it's like, what did I do? And who knew? He laid out what my career was going to be. Number I was number one in the class. Then you picked your billets by your class rank. in a public forum where you put your name in a card. Most people that were number one went to Hawaii or San Francisco. He told me I would not be able to 'cause the heads were not retrofit for women, that they'd probably send us all to Governor's Island, which is where the bottom of the class starts, that I would be sent to Washington and paraded around as a role model. From there I would go to the academy to be tenured as a math and computer science professor, and that really the computer industry was just beginning. And he thought I would have a much more exciting career if I went to MIT and got my degree and then went to Silicon Valley to work, which is what I did. However, at that point I was just getting By day by day. I didn't have any thoughts about career. So here you are, you're 19, and somebody lays out your life. It was overwhelming, and I didn't know what to do. And he said, Look, I'll write you a letter of recommendation, reapply, and we'll see if we can't get you in, and then you can decide if you want to go or not. So I said, What do you have to lose? So I said, Okay. I did tell my mother that I was doing this. And at that There had been enough harassment and enough difficulties and enough fighting for women's causes. Of course, she said, look, we can go to the congressman and have the ship retrofit, I'm sure, or something like that. Which I said, Yeah, no, I don't think so. I don't really think one congressman has that poll. and so she was supportive at that point. And my father was supportive the whole time. He had been a veteran. air army air corps. So he thought it would be great if I could serve my country. However, he thought spending so much time being a woman pioneer would not allow me to thrive in the way he wanted me to thrive in the business world. Being a cadet at the academy and then having a conversation with a dean, even with a small like personal connection, is a little intimidating for him to say like, Hey, I'm just gonna be honest here at least Is this really what you want to be doing? Is that the first time somebody had ever brought that idea up to you of this may not be your calling? I think so, yeah. And I and I did wonder, are they just trying to get rid of the smart women? Is are am I being managed out? Is he friend? Is he foe? Is he really watching out for me? And it was it was definitely in the back of my mind that people have said over the decades, they just wanted to get rid of you. And I don't actually think that's true because there were other classmates in the top of the class that they thought would this wouldn't be a great fit for. What internally was going on? Did you take this information back to some trusted friends? What was that process from hearing this from the dean to then actually deciding to leave to go to MIT? Fortunately, some of my friends had siblings who had graduated and were in the Coast Guard. So I did ask a number of people what they thought and I did get various opinions that I could be 'cause again, the computer in there were no computers. There were no cellphones. I think we had One at the Academy that was some old thing where we put our little punch cards in and so the concept of he was a visionary enough, I think, Captain White, to say, This is going to be huge. Mm-hmm. This is going to change the way work is done. This is going to change the way people communicate. This is going to change the way we live. And you'll get to be at the forefront of that. Yeah. Wow. incredible foresight because computers tick times take over, right? Yeah, and I am forever grateful. I'm forever grateful that my mother, quote unquote, made me go to the academy, I would say. And I'm so glad. And I struggled with this with my children. What do you make them do? What do you let them decide what they're gonna do? And I always would say to my husband, Hey, my mom made me go and I am so grateful she did. So similarly with Captain White, I'm forever grateful that he advised me the way he did and that I was able to have the career I was able to have. a little bit of that tough love, you know. It's good. So you have this conversation during third class year. You stick around for a second class summer. the best summer in my opinion at the Academy. How did that work out? And then your decision to leave and start at MIT. Many of my friends were leaving and many of the class my classmates were leaving and they mostly left at the end of the second semester of Swab year or third class year. Yeah, second semester of third class. Some had left after Swab year, but third class year. And particularly my one of my best friends was leaving and I wanted to have the summer off. However, one of my classmates, i.e. Captain Joanne McCaffrey, who's done a lot for women over the decades, family leave policy, she's just really been a an incredible pioneer, came to me and said like you can't leave. Sh f she made us do a lot of things. Like, you we we need to you need to be a cheerleader. You have to do crew. You whatever Jo Joanne said, okay, okay, okay. You know, we need a woman to do this and we're not gonna have a woman homecoming queen from across the street. And la de da she just kept us all doing things that we weren't qualified and had no experience doing, but we enjoy doing and still enjoy doing the things she tries to get us to do. in this case, she said, we need role models. And since you're at the top of the class, you're gonna get a good position and we need them for the the entering swabs. So stay for the summer and be a role model. So I did and I was XO that summer and it was a great summer. What was the experience like for you? So you were you did swab summer with zero female mentors to look up to that were your cadre, because you guys were the first to be in that position to kind of mentor or guide or at least be visible for those females coming into that class. Was that a full circle moment for you? How did you feel about being able to be there and show these women we're here, we can do it, you can do it too? It was an incredible opportunity. It was an honor actually to be able to have that exo role and to look out for other women. When the ne class behind us came in, suddenly there was twice the number of women. And then when that third class came in, there were three times the number of women. So we saw women everywhere. So it seemed like a lot, even though it really wasn't a lot. It was comforting and I was honored to be able to be a leader in that situation. It was a fabulous summer all around. Do you have any fun stories that stick out in your mind from that summer? I'm pretty small. I was like a hundred and two pounds. And when we had to do the swim test, that first summer, they put me to save the heavyweight wrestler in our class. And he was out there flailing and I thought, game over, I'm dead. This is Just I'm going under like So I swam up to him and I said, friend or foe and he said friend and he helped me kick back and then, you know, he sort of climbed out of the pool on his own and it was all good. Similarly, I think it might have been him as well, is they made me number one nozzle man and when they would turn on the hose, I would go up in the air, like literally get airborne. And so he would hold me down with one hand and then have the hose over my shoulder with another hand. Wow. So that that was an a good classmate opportunity. The other thing was the gas masks didn't fit our faces. Mm-hmm. So when we went in the gas chamber, we all ate it pretty much with I mean, it was very uncomfortable and we were let us out, let us out 'cause they were they were too big. The life belts on Eagle didn't fit. So you'd have to hold them under your arms like this to climb. The helmets were didn't fit. So when we went out and they lifted us up into the helicopter and put the cookie in our mouth and shoved us out. I mean, I dropped down and clapped the guy in the ears I did that defensive move and then crawled over to the pilot and said, Down, down, down, look, my helmet doesn't fit. They didn't care. They grabbed me, put the cookie in my mouth, and threw me out and I tried to hold the helmet on. Boom. Whiplush. And the it was Interesting because it wasn't well thought out. The gas mask, all those things I hope were better when you were there and that they fit and you guys didn't have some of the same issues. Yes. I can't say I ever had to put on a gas mask and get exposed to that. I think back on my time at the academy and wish I had a little more understanding of what it took to get to the point where I was at, at least to where I never thought about how women weren't always at the academy. Like it wasn't something I thought about often. We'd have a lunch and learn or something along those lines and have a guest speaker come and we would talk and learn about it and then I would think about it during that lunch or the op spotlight. But on a day to day for me, it's not something I was ever considering. and that is something that for your class and I think several classes after you was an integral part of the experience of just getting things that fit or having a space that felt safe that you could go to and be yourself and be a woman. And that's why I'm so grateful we're doing this podcast series is to bring these stories to light so we can hear about it and think about it and really respect the pathway you guys made. And I think we have come a long way, but there is still a long way to go. There's a long way to go. And there's a little backsliding, which is scary. Captain Joanne McCaffrey used to always say, We're doing this so in twenty years they'll never know that there weren't always women here. And then she went to something twenty years later and somebody stood up and she saw the audience was very confused and they said exactly what you said. We didn't know women weren't always here. And she said it was very disappointing because she on one hand, that was what we fought for. On the other hand, now what am I gonna do? I'm in this In this panel and they have no idea. So something that we should think about and remember so that we stop the backsliding. It took a lot of work to get to this point. It's gonna take a lot of work to keep moving forward and we can't get complacent, if you will. I feel like we say that all the time, the Coast Guard, like complacency is what causes the problems, and we can't be complacent about this story and this journey that you guys had. There's a lot to learn from history. There is, yes. Wait, I need to know. Did mom come through at the end? Yeah. And what was the car? I got a Ford Fiesta, a white Ford Fiesta. Perfect. When I went to MIT there were twenty it was about twenty percent women. I think it's about fifty percent now. and so to me it seemed like a lot of women. Right. 'Cause when I left we were down, I think fifteen I was the when I left there were fourteen that graduated. I don't think anybody left after me. I think I was the last one to leave. Yeah, 'cause you made it pretty much halfway through before you left. Right. And Joanne really, I think, wanted me to you know, she was encouraging me to stay, but I after the Captain White discussion and then even after discussing that with my mother and my grandfather and my father, I think we all agreed it would probably be Best if I went to MIT and then I don't think my mom realized that meant I was moving to California. Don't think she had done that, man. Yeah. Well, you wanted Hawaii. You so you kinda got, you know, closer to it. Speaking of California, graduate from MIT and you get a job in California. Through a Coast Guard connection, correct? Correct. So the company I actually went to work for in California. was run by basically Dr. Jim Tyler, who has also gone to the academy and has been incredibly generous to the academy and to the sailing program and the Maritime Center, et cetera, et cetera. And I think my resume as a woman in the first class popped up because I had you know, number one in the classic Coast Guard Academy four semesters in a row. And he knew we had been trained to sail and he was always looking for crew to race. And so myself and friends who were stationed out there all crewed for him, and raced with Dr. Tyler. Thank you to our alumni community for your continued engagement. You are what keep this community strong and thriving, especially our members. Membership in your alumni association matters. It empowers connections between our alumni and the academy to develop thriving and enduring relationships. It supports state-of-the-art and margin of excellence enhancements for the core of cadets. And membership also comes with some pretty cool benefits like access to professional development and certifications, unique connection opportunities to grow your network, discounts and savings when welcoming back the whole family for homecoming. And so much more. Your membership even supports projects like this podcast. So stay connected, stay up to date, and ensure that your ties to the long blue line remain strong. Become a member today at CGAalumni.org slash eighteen eighty seven. What do you think the Academy helps build and foster in you to make you successful on the civilian side? I think several things. I think having respect for superiors. Understanding that you're gonna be ranked by your peers. Cause there wasn't in the corporate world, they weren't doing 360 performance reviews, but the mil it was at the academy, right? You get understanding how to understand that it's all a game, really, and to be resilient to whatever came our way was incredibly helpful throughout my career to be able to say. Yeah, this is a tough situation. Yes, I'm a woman. How am I gonna handle this? I need to sometimes work behind the scenes, Namawashi the Japanese way. Sometimes I can attack the problem head on. And so I think the Academy prepared me well for the corporate world, actually. There's politics everywhere, you get more than two people together, so you really have to understand who's in the inner circle, who's making the decision, what the consequences are gonna be and what you need to do to move the ball forward. And taking risks. You know, take taking risks is important, climbing to the top of Eagle. I made friends with the bosun's mate on Eagle going across the Atlantic, and he would tell me when we're gonna have sales stations. So I was always there with my belt and could get up to the tippy top and sit in the crow's neck and watch everybody. You to be prepared to think ahead to know what's coming and then to take risks, like, hey, I'm gonna risk going to the top. Taking risks in the corporate world is important too. You have to think about what risk is, what the cost benefit is, and which ones you're willing to take and which ones you're willing to stick your neck out for. Yeah. I feel like a lot of The themes seem to be around relationships with, you know, Jim Tyler, your other female classmates, the bosun and and getting those insider tips. It's all about relationships at the end of the day. networking. Exactly. My mom always used to say, It's not what you know, it's who you know. Yeah. I agree with that. And I think the Academy does a good job building that foundation of making sure you foster those relationships because they will come into play for the rest of your life. So speaking of risk, you've told a story or you've explained to me before about a time where you made a little risky move to get the coroner office and it worked in your favor. Can you tell us about that? Right. So we were going through a merger and acquisition, and I was in one building. We won a giant contract. I had been asked to manage that contract and to move back into the building. At the same time, the corner office where the executive vice president was empty because he had been moved to another building. And so my boss said, Just find yourself an office over here. So I looked around and I thought, that's a pretty nice office. And so I went down to shipping and receiving and I said, Hey, what are you guys doing tonight? And they go, Nothing. We were gonna go to the softball game or whatever. And I said, Well, hey, you you want to move my stuff over into the coroner office up from building this to that. And they said, Sure, we're doing all the moving. So they loaded up my stuff and I moved into the coroner office. And the next day my boss came in and said, What are you doing? I said, Well, I am managing the largest contract and we're a project matrix organization. And you work for me as my head of engineering. So now I'm in this office. It was probably two or three times as big as his office. So I stayed there. I was there for quite a while until then there was another big reorg and we all moved to different buildings and I lost my corner office. But I wouldn't let him downsize me either, because by then I had all the files for this giant government contract locked up inside my office. Yeah. So I was so we both got corner offices. So I stood firm on my I'm not going backwards. Right. Good. It's nice to have a That was risky. It was the I'll never forget the look on his face when I was sitting in there like taking office. I think Exactly. I like this one. There's a lot of space. I can take a nap over there when we're sleeping under All the natural light, you know. What more do you need? Trees. Second story. I love lots of little conference table where we can meet. Yeah. I that's awesome. so you went into the corporate world, into a male dominated field. You had experienced harassment and people intentionally preventing you from succeeding. Did you feel the same things when you were working in the corporate world? There was definitely a glass ceiling in the corporate world, especially back then. At the company when I went to work for Jim, there was a fair number of women And there were no executive vice presidents that were women. So they sort of reached a director level thereabout and kind of tapped out. When I had gone back to be a consultant where I would for I was working for a three billion dollar company and I was NEMA washing all of the executives to get them all to go in the same direction and to put together the strategic plan basically. And even though I had Done all the alignment work behind the scenes and worked with everybody, product marketing sales, da da da da da. When it came time to present to the CEO, I was I viewed myself as a benched player because all the men were gonna present the work I had done as their own work. Now, fortunately it all aligned from one division to the other division, and not that they weren't working and they didn't have their part of it, however I could have presented the whole thing and instead I just sat there and since I was a consultant getting paid by the hour, I just one of the executive VPs said, Hey, this is you. You should be presenting this and I said, I don't care. Cha ching, ching. Yeah, right. You're still getting paid. I'm getting paid by the hour to sit here and listen to you gu to listen for three days to all these people. Why you know, so at at a point I think I realized that I wasn't willing to do what it took for work family balance to break the glass ceiling. Mm-hmm. And I think at that point I changed my priorities in what was important to me. And I think work family balance w became more important than breaking the glass ceiling further. I mean, I ran a European division of a company that was tough because I was never I I was never around. But then I got pregnant and said, Okay, that's it, I'm done. You're sitting in the room, you're watching all these men present on the work that you did. And was that the point of realization of actually, you know what? I know I can do this, but I don't need to prove it to anyone else. I'm good with stepping back. I think the point of deciding was actually right before I g I got pregnant that I you know, maybe I wasn't gonna work to break the glass ceiling further that I was gonna consult. You had an amazing career and a lot of opportunity to define success, and what that means to you. Would you consider yourself someone who had been successful? Where I am now is success is being on this side of the green grass, waking up every day with gratitude that another day is here and that I have my health And that I have my family and that I can pursue my interests. It's different than when I was working full time or consulting where success was defined by us setting goals and achieving those goals. And now the goals aren't as important as being present and being happy and being there for other people. in ways that I I can be. So it evolves over time as you go through different transitions, the definition of success. When you look back at your time, your time at the Academy specifically, what are you most grateful for? think my long lasting friendships and unique experiences, I still spend time with my classmates, several of them, you know, we do a lot of things together. I think the doors that the Academy opened for me throughout my career because it was something unique on my resume. And so it it makes you stand out from the pile. And and be proud of it and tell your s tell the stories that you know, you got pushed out of a helicopter? What you talking about? Like, yeah. Pretty scary. Yeah. I one of my favorite stories is we I graduated, reported directly to a cutter. We leave like the next day on a patrol and on that patrol I get qualified as a helicopter control officer. So I get to be on the bridge on the radio talking to helicopters and during one of our drug chases or drug busts, I was the one who got to say batteries released to the helicopter to shoot out the engines with the 50 cal. And I'm like, it's the coolest. It was so cool. I was 30 days out of the academy. Like I had been an ensign for not even a full month and I was already doing that. So yeah, it's incredible opportunities. But Right. In an incredible experiences that are not in The normal out of the box they are. They I feel like there's no other way. They're just yeah. Out of the box experiences. Right. Yeah. Is there anything that worries you about the climate for women at the academy or just in general? I think one of the things you said is you didn't always know that women weren't always here, right? And that was our goal. And as the Society of Women Engineers can't meet anymore in the engineering building because it's DEI. I mean, it's like crazy. Men can come to the Society of Women Engineers meetings. Nobody says that this is a closed group. Right. Right. I went I went to the last reunion, it was our fifth reunion, and went to the women's brunch and the the cadets really struggled on do I do I start my classes, my second class year, because what's gonna happen is am I gonna have the career? Is it gonna be limited? Is it gonna be worse than everything that y'all have been able to do? I mean, I think there was no chance anybody in our class was gonna be a pilot, for example, right? Or an astronaut or I mean, like they barely could figure out what ships to put us on. Right. And how to have I mean it so things have evolved significantly and the fact that these women now are wondering if they're gonna have horrible careers because they're not gonna have the support because it's like rah-rah, no DEI all men and the leadership institute, the women's leadership institute, you know, they're sort of things are on hold in a lot of places as I understand it. And it's very sad to me. that this is happening. And when I was at that, people were saying, What do we need to do? And I said, vote. Get out there. Yeah. You know, go to the go really understand and vote for people that are supportive of things that support and encourage women as human beings to be able to do anything they want to do. Yeah. Yeah. So outside of voting shouldn't even be a question. What other responsibilities do men and women have? Or I really should say, what other responsibilities do women and men have to kind of ensure that we move forward instead of this kind of sliding backwards that seems to be happening. I think again it goes back to taking risks. And to for the men to take risks and for somebody to say, Hey, we're gonna have the Society of Women Engineers meeting in the engineering building so that after don't have to run down to the alumni and for people to for the men to say, Hey the Commandant Cadets for the Naval Academy and merchant marine that were admirals that were ousted from their positions, that the the men should be writing letters too 'cause Think about their daughters. Yeah. Think about their granddaughters. Why do you why do they want this for they don't want this for their families, I don't think, but people are afraid to stand up and say anything because of the retribution that might occur. when we were on Eagle have you heard this story, the Miss Hamburg story? I don't think so. Okay. So in The first class lounge there was a Playboy Sentinelfold, Miss Hamburg, and she had little stickies all over her, but they weren't sti I think it was before post-it notes. But anyway, there were all these little stickies over all the parts. And as we went over, they would take a part off. But we had to go in there to get charts and all that kind of stuff. And as we got closer, there were the three critical parts left. And all of a sudden, Joanne, Sally Patrick, Sarah, and I were called in to the first clash sounds and berated because somebody had gone in there and cut out the parts under the stickies. And somebody had peaked and there were no parts. And we were all gonna be, you know, I forget what it was, like not allowed off the ship, grounded or whatever. One of our male classmates we think did it. We don't know, nobody ever fessed up who did it, but the women all absolutely if we had done it, we would have probably told each other, right? Because we were like and they were like, Hey, brilliant idea. I wish I would have thought of that. But to this day we do not know who's responsible for that. But that person took a risk. Mm-hmm. Right? They didn't get in trouble. We got in trouble. Eventually they let us go because we didn't do it. Right. But those I think about that when it comes to it was a small tiny little risk. If everybody just took tiny little risks together. Right. Right. If there could be some way that they could, you know, bond and all the faculty, all the engineering faculty gets together and say, No. We as faculty, there's not one person that's doing this and we're gonna rotate who's gonna meet with the Society of Women Engineers. And any man who wants to come can come. Right. Yeah. If that kind of those small risks could be done as a group, I think progress can be made. And I think again, Joanne McCaffrey spent a lot of time doing that, putting us together as a group. Whether it was letter jackets or this or that or whatever the issues were, the wall had to be lowered, this had to be done, that had to be done. She was very good at getting us all on the same page and getting male classmates involved so that it wasn't one or two people taking a risk. It was in unity there is strength. Take a risk. And so that's what I I I think if more of that could happen. for the women that are currently at the academy and for people in their first billets or second billets and in their careers, I think it would be incredibly helpful in this current environment. Yeah. That's a great story in that there was a secret supporter to kind of be there for you guys. And while they never fessed up to it, I feel like you are grateful to that to that person, whoever they were. Right. And brilliant and we laugh about it. You know, g all right, did you do Miss Hamburg? Did you who was that brilliant person? I think it was your husband. I think it was your It's still an ongoing joke and we all wanna know who who was responsible for Miss Hamburg. When we've talked before, you mentioned a book, which I haven't had the chance to read yet, but it sounds so interesting. Philip Wiley's The Disappearance. And it's kind of an interesting concept about a world of only women and a world of only men and they're separate. Can you talk a little bit about that storyline and kind of what it meant to you and why why it's something that you still think about? Yeah, in fact, I was given that book by the executive vice president whose office I took to read. In nineteen eighties said read this is about the fifties because women in there were not a lot of women engineers. There were women typists when I went to work. There but there were not a lot of women engineers. In fact, there were none. T well there was one, I think, in the whole company. And so When he gave me that book and I read that book, it was shocking because it's about women, it's about society in the fifties where the men disappear in from the women's world and the women disappear from the men's world. And there's nobody flying the airplanes. There's no train drivers in the world where the women are left. In the men's world, there's no school teachers, there's no nurses, there's no mothers. So there's chaos in both worlds. I think As a society, we have come a long way in putting more women in as pilots and more, but still we are off balance in a lot of areas. There's more male nurses, there's more we're we're not at 5050, we're not a parody in many areas. And I think it takes, especially given this current backsliding, that if women add value and participate with courage and fight for what they believe in. They can make changes and if they can ha if if they can do it together in unity there is strength and they can get more done. with each other than individually. Yeah. It's success as a whole. It's not possible when we're not working together. And appreciating the qualities and the skills that we can all bring to the table. Right. So And I think, you know, there are men who are willing to help as well. There are some incredibly supportive men. And there are some less supportive men. And knowing again be they friend or foe and how do you maybe persuade them or at least sideline them so that that you can go forwards and make progress is important because there's still like you said earlier, there's still a lot of work to do. Yeah. lastly for a message to the women at the Academy today? What is something you want to say to them and hope that they kind of hear and carry forward at their time at the Academy or wherever their path leads? think it would be have courage. Trust yourself. Find unity and strength with other women to make the progress and changes that you want to see made and To continue to fight the fight that my mom was fighting full time since the nineteen forties. Like Curtis saying, go to the academ proceed forward. We're not. We're going. keep that car moving forward. You just picture your dad being like, mm hmm, yep, we're doing. As you're like crying in the background. Yeah. I'm sure he was just crying on the inside. Yeah. Having to do that to you. Aw, yeah. Well, but you know, I I think I realized when I got there and I took that oath to the Constitution and I looked around and there were no women and there were no women role models and there were I I didn't really understand what I was doing, I don't think, because I had had been a dancer. I was with women girls my whole You know, gymnastics and we had Title Nine and the whole thing, right? So I don't think I understood until I stood there at that swearing in and said, This is way bigger than me. Yeah. I see what my mother's like why she wants me to be here because wow. Yeah, you needed to be there. And you need to fight the fight. And I think similarly When women look around in the boardroom or in a meeting or wherever they are, to be able to understand that they're still in there fighting that fight and to stick with it and do the best they can with positivity, you know, not resentment, not anger, not I really think the only way to make change in progress is to do it from the perspective of positivity. And gratitude and concern for the betterment of of all humanity, not just the women, also the men. Right. Yeah. Linda, thank you so much for your time today, your honesty, your voice, your story. It's been incredible to hear. I am inspired by you. I'm so grateful for you leading the way for women like me to be able to go to the academy and not face That resistance that you had. So thank you so much. And I cannot wait to chat with you again. Well, you're so welcome. And for all of our classmates who fought that fight, thanks to them and thanks for their encouragement. And thank you for your interest, Nicole, and thank you for your invitation. It's been a pleasure. Before we wrap up, we'd like to take a moment to recognize someone who helped make another person's journey possible. As part of Fifty Years of Her Story, we're inviting alumni to share a moment of gratitude. A chance to thank the classmates, mentors, instructors, coaches, family members, and friends whose support made a lasting difference. Here's this episode's moment of gratitude. I'm Tammy Toscano. My class is 1984. I was in Bravo Company. seems so long ago. the the person that's come up that I want to give a shout-out to was Kevin Crowley. I just remember not being physically fit enough to get through swab year and on those four years and and just it stands out because I had trouble running through Swab and Kevin came up after he finished because he was an avid runner and would just come up beside me and say, Okay, concentrate on me breathing. You're gonna take steps. I'm right here beside you. you can do this. And then when he got me across the finish line, he would go to another, you know, woman and help her across the finish line. And so Kevin stands out, but there were so many other people that I can't necessarily remember the moments, but there was those little things. the other one that stands out is my roommate Sue Curl. She's no longer with us, loved her, but she was my roommate until she left. And we were just polar opposites, but she helped me just get over the rule following. We balanced each other out. And so she helped me realize that, you know, sometimes you can just relax. And I helped her learn how to fold her underwear. but we had fun together. We went walking in the rain and there was those times where you could just share the real things that were happening and how to get through it. Others, you know, Shabon Moore. Sh I'd love to see her again and just other, you know, classmates, friends, Lori Schwartz, who were my best friends, and we traveled together and could just be women. Carrie Thomas, Carrie Batson that was also a roommate, show me how to put makeup on and be a girl, be a woman while I was there and just embrace who we really were. So that's who comes to mind and it mattered because it got you through. Each day, each period made you stronger. I graduated, which was a surprise. But I'm never ever regretted it. So thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Fifty Years of Her Story. Linda's story is a reminder that progress does not happen all at once. It is built over time by people willing to speak up, support one another, and keep moving forward, even when the path is uncertain. As we reflect on Fifty Years of Women at the Coast Guard Academy. Stories like Linda's remind us that the opportunities many experience today exist because others were willing to take risks and push for change. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and share it with someone who would appreciate these stories. I'm Nicole Bogden, thank you for listening.