Jason Nix: Welcome to Across the Globe. We are so glad that you are joining us here. This is the official podcast of the Global Methodist Church. My name is Jason Nix, and I am honored to be joined today by Bishop Jones. How are you doing today, Bishop Jones?

Bishop Scott Jones: I'm having a great day. Thanks for asking.

Jason Nix: Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule and all of the things that are taking place in the life of our church to have this conversation. Today we are going to be talking about the Articles of Faith that have a story and a history and Bishop Jones knows so much more about the details of how we got here and what's kind of taking place. If you've been following us online, the commission released the Articles of Faith in their not finalized form so that the church body could kind of absorb them. And so before that took place, a lot of other stuff took place. so Bishop Jones, could you fill us in on just the makeup and ⁓ the consistency of the road, how we got to today and what we're looking at with these Articles of Faith for the Global Methodist Church?

Bishop Scott Jones: Well, absolutely, Jason, and thanks for the opportunity to share this with people more broadly. ⁓ Let's start off by saying that the Global Methodist Church is a Bible-believing church. The Holy Bible is our authority, and we believe that it is the rule and authority for faith, morals, and service against which all other authorities must be measured. But anybody who's read the Bible carefully knows it's a complicated book. And so from the earliest days of Christianity, we developed doctrinal statements that summarize the key statements about what we believe and what the gospel is. For example, the Nicene Creed was formulated in the fourth century. ⁓ The Apostles Creed, a little bit before that. ⁓ all through the history of the Church, we have addressed difficult issues by summarizing what the Bible teaches according to our beliefs. And so when the Global Method of Church was formed in our book of doctrines and disciplines, we had a section on the normative documents for our doctrinal standards. And we specifically put in the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the definition of Chalcedon. but also we are Wesleyan Christians and we come to being the church as a group that has a history to it. ⁓ Specifically, many of us were United Methodists and the United Methodist Church in 1968 had two additional standards. One were the Articles of Religion that came out of the 1784 formation of the Methodist Episcopal Church. They had a history going back to the 1500s and the Church of England. ⁓ There were 39 articles adopted in 1571 by the Church of England. John Wesley ⁓ reduced those to 24 articles. And then at our founding meeting in 1784, the Christmas Conference added a 25th article. So those were doctrinal standards for the Methodist movement all the way up until the 20th century. When we joined with the Evangelical United Brethren Church, they had developed in 1962 a document called the Confession of Faith. And that group was, that document was the official standard. And when the United Methodist Church was formed in 1968, it decided not to combine them, but to hold both of them in tandem. So the United Methodist Church from 1965 until, well, for them, even today, it has both documents. We decided as a church to adopt both of those documents going forward, but to say, you know, sort of combining them would be a good idea. ⁓ Some of the language in the Articles of Religion was from the 1500s and hard for contemporary people to understand. ⁓

Jason Nix: you Yeah.

Bishop Scott Jones: There was always the question about slight disagreements or emphases that were different in the two documents. Plus, both documents address some questions that really aren't relevant anymore. And so ⁓ at the General Conference in Costa Rica, the Commission on Doctrine, Discipline and Just Ministry was asked to start a process with the Assembly of Bishops that would ⁓ lead to a combination of the The Assembly of Bishops and Commission on Discipleship ⁓ cooperated in naming a drafting committee ⁓ that would work hard on this. We created a feedback mechanism where ⁓ people who were knowledgeable about this whole process could provide input into it. And the commission then released its final draft, actually almost final. ⁓

Jason Nix: you

Bishop Scott Jones: for a public understanding of where we were headed. And so that's what's out there right now. ⁓ It will be in ⁓ a petition to the General Conference that meets ⁓ in September of this year, and we hope it will be ⁓ adopted and a new doctrinal statement called the Articles of Faith will become normative for Wesleyan Witness according to the Global Methodist Church. Boy, Jason, I just covered four or five centuries of work there. I'm sorry if it's confusing, but you know me, I'm a theological professor who teaches church history, and so I could talk a lot longer than I just did.

Jason Nix: Yeah. Well, and I love it. I don't think you can be a bishop without loving church history and knowing church history. And so, ⁓ this is, this is always, there's always more that is baked into the cake than even what we realize. I thank you so much for, ⁓ taking us all the way back to how we got where we were, how we got where we are and what's kind of what, you know, what we're looking forward to in, in the days ahead. So just to just clarify, ⁓ This was not a move that was made by any specific group. This was an ask of the general conference in 2024. Is that correct?

Bishop Scott Jones: That's correct. I think there was a sense by the general conference that while we don't really want to change the substance of these ⁓ two documents, combining them and updating their language, dropping out some things that aren't relevant ⁓ anymore, that would be a useful thing. ⁓ For example, the article's religion had an article about how ministers could be married. Well, that's not really an issue in Methodist movement anymore. Why are we talking about that even? But in the 1500s, that was a live issue ⁓ because the Reformation was still going on and the movement away from the Roman Catholic Church was a live issue.

Jason Nix: Well, in just in the, the context of all this, if you're listening to this conversation right now, and you're waiting for us to go point by point through each of the different articles of faith and the changes that were made, we're not going to do that today. ⁓ Bishop Jones has, has let us know he's on the commission, but was not part of the drafting team. And so our hope here at Across the Globe is that we'll be able to grab Jason Vickers and David Watson and some of the voices that were on the drafting. team that actually put the wording, the language together. If we're going to pick apart the language and really want to fine tune that, then let's talk to the people who actually put the, the, language together. ⁓ but I, we, we are on here to ask this question, and this is maybe more of a, ⁓ put on, put on just the Uber pastoral hat, ⁓ given our history, not only as a goal of Methodist church, but, Methodist in general in Wesleyans, most of the time when change is made, It is a change that moves or the fear and maybe what our history has said is that changes move us further away from what, what has been Orthodox scriptural teaching. And so, ⁓ as we enter into this season and a lot of people ask the question and you've already answered it, but, ⁓ how would you, how would you speak to someone who's just like, don't change anything. And just because when I've seen change in the past, it has, it has not worked out well. How would we navigate that or how would you speak to that to our church body today?

Bishop Scott Jones: We are not changing the substance of our doctrine. ⁓ We are updating the expression of it and clarifying some things and making it more user friendly. ⁓ In addition, there's a section in our book of doctrines and disciplines where we call it foundational Wesleyan standards for Christian discipleship. John Wesley's sermons and notes on the New Testament, the general rules, they are still part of our doctrinal statements. ⁓ We think the doctrine is very important and so we're trying to make it user-friendly and ⁓ updated so that it will be in fact something that's important and officially ⁓ binding on us. We are an Orthodox denomination. ⁓ We want to reaffirm the basics of the faith and be crystal clear about that. That's why updating the language and ⁓

Jason Nix: Yes, sir.

Bishop Scott Jones: dropping out the irrelevant parts, ⁓ addressing the things that are relevant. All of that is very important.

Jason Nix: So good. So as we look forward to September, you've already mentioned that this, ⁓ this will go before the general conference 26 in Johannesburg, South Africa. ⁓ and so, ⁓ just, so as people are listening, ⁓ nothing is final and this will be taken as a petition to, ⁓ the general conference. What happens if it passes what, what's, what's the maneuver? Does it just kind of go into our documentation? going forward or is there some, other wrinkle that takes place in our church body coming out of Johannesburg? Let's just, let's just hypothetically say that, ⁓ it passes in these articles of faith or adopt.

Bishop Scott Jones: There is something in our GMC doctrine called the restrictive rules. It says that changing our doctrinal statements requires a super majority of people. Once these things are approved, the article of faith are approved, they're covered by the restrictive rule, which means we're not changing it anytime soon. We left this window open for these first two or three years. saying, okay, we know that we need to pay attention to combining the articles of religion and confession of faith. Once they're combined and adopted, that's it. We're binding ourselves for the future by putting them under the restrictive rules. The restrictive rules have been in place ever since 1808 in the Methodist Church because as they've created a general conference with delegates, not all of the preachers could vote, but only delegates could vote. We said, you know, don't go messing around with our doctrine. ⁓ And so that ⁓ is what's going to be going forward. Now, let's get down to practicalities. When we ordain people in the Global Methodist Church, I as bishop asked them a question. Have you studied our doctrines? Do you believe they're in harmony with the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments? Will you preach and maintain them? We expect our clergy to teach the faith of the church and not some other faith. We expect to hold them accountable for that. Let's say some elder or deacon, ⁓ has a crisis of faith and decides, well, Jesus wasn't really resurrected ⁓ after all. We expect that person to say, With integrity, I need to leave the ministry of the Methodist Church because I don't believe what you all teach anymore. That strikes me as a basic sort of reality, but we need to be clear what is it we expect them to preach. And we expect them to believe there's one God in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Christ was raised from the dead. ⁓

Jason Nix: Yeah.

Bishop Scott Jones: He ascended into heaven, he's coming back. ⁓ All of those are basic Christian teachings and we're clarifying that in ways that are pretty important. I'm an adjunct professor at Truett Seminary at Baylor University. I'll be teaching a course in August on Methodist doctrine.

Jason Nix: Yeah.

Bishop Scott Jones: where I'm gonna help people go deep into what it is we believe is global Methodist people. ⁓ And this articles of faith will become the standard by which we train and raise up our next generation of clergy.

Jason Nix: and what it is we believe is the global methodist people. That's incredible. As I'm listening to you speak, just to, just to burden, or maybe just a caution in my heart around, some fatigue that some of, ⁓ our clergy and lady might feel around, ⁓ just some of the intricate, necessary, beautiful work that the Lord is doing, ⁓ leading us to the power of the Holy spirit. As all this is coming together, ⁓ I've just seen it in my own heart at times. I've seen it in some of the ⁓ people that I, that I pastor and, ⁓ that it's just like, I'm tired of even trying to navigate this kind of stuff. And so they just kind of disengage. ⁓ and I just, there's, there's a charge here and I, and I think you would echo this that engage with what is taking place. Go and read these documents. And if there is something that is unclear or that you have a question about, go to your pastor. go to your superintendent, go to the presiding elder ⁓ over your district. And, and let's, let's talk about like, what, what does this mean and how does this take shape? Would you, would you agree with that as a, as a healthy response in a way to engage with what is taking place in the, in the global, in the larger sense of our, our body here in the global Methodist church.

Bishop Scott Jones: Absolutely. I want people to engage. Most Christians don't have to worry about the Chalcedonian definition that Christ is one person with two natures, fully human and fully divine. But if you ever run into some people who don't believe that or who say Jesus was just a good teacher, ⁓ we've got people who are global Methodists in Muslim countries where who Jesus is matters drastically. The fact that Jesus is God incarnate is the defining difference between us and Islam. And so when you're in Africa, or in the Middle East, when you're in Southeast Asia, ⁓ These are live issues about who is Jesus and why does that matter? Frankly, I also think it matters in America, but sometimes we get by without paying much attention to it. so ⁓ studying the Articles of Faith will be a good exercise going forward for all Methodist Christians.

Jason Nix: Mm. Well, that is, ⁓ I hope you're encouraged as you're listening to this, ⁓ that, that there is, there's movement and there's just ⁓ a thing that's requiring us to trust the Lord, ⁓ sitting in front of us here. And so, ⁓ we, again, we'll, we'll do our best to get some of the drafters on. ⁓ if so we can talk some more, ⁓ pinpoint, ⁓ information around what's in these articles of faith. ⁓ but Bishop Jones, thank you. Thank you for taking time. to just kind of bring us all into the same understanding of how we got here, what we're looking at, what the heartbeat is behind it. Again, I love what you said. We're not changing our doctrine. We are updating language and getting rid of things that no longer are necessary. And, and, and again, for me, and this is personal anecdote, I say yes and amen. So, ⁓ if you don't say yes and amen, I think that's fine too. The Lord's gonna work as we move together towards His heart. But I just say yes and amen that this is something that our church is saying we'll take on and we'll trust the Lord to lead us and guide us. so, yeah.

Bishop Scott Jones: Amen. Jason, let me talk about the next stuff. few weeks, ⁓ we think that we are paying attention to the conversation that's going on in various places in response to the draft that we've released. April 21st, the commission is going to meet and finalize it. There may be some slight changes in response to feedback that we get. There will be a petition and we trust the delegates who have been elected to go to Johannesburg will study this document and there will be discussion in Johannesburg. ⁓

Jason Nix: Yes.

Bishop Scott Jones: might be some changes made on the ⁓ floor of the General Conference as this document is discussed, ⁓ but we hope that by the adjournment of General Conference on September 6th that there will be a final version that's put in our book of doctrines and disciplines. So we invite people to pray, we invite people to study, and we hope that the Church will come to a clear understanding that... This is a way of expressing our faith that will shape who we are for decades to come.

Jason Nix: It's beautiful. Well, I think it's a great place to wrap it up. And as we do very often here on Across the Globe, Bishop Johns, I'm going to ask if you would just say a word of prayer for all those who are listening in and, and just as the spirit leads, would you lead us in prayer to close out our time?

Bishop Scott Jones: Happy to do that. Let's pray together. Almighty God, you've called into being a church to be the body of Christ, to be a part of what you're doing in the world. God, you've asked us to be witnesses to the resurrection of Jesus and the... power of the Holy Spirit across the globe. God, as you are leading us, we thank you for the blessings you've given to us to date. We thank you for women and men who have shaped the doctrinal standards of our movement and ask that you would give us clarity going forward that indeed all of us might go deep in understanding who we are and who you are, that we might preach the gospel and do it well. All this we ask in Jesus' name and all God's people said, amen. in.

Jason Nix: Amen. Amen. Thank you, Bishop Jones.

Bishop Scott Jones: Thank you, Jason. God bless you.

Jason Nix: Yes, sir.