Wes McAdams: After a sermon is over, have you ever wanted to make a comment, ask a question, or listen to the preacher say more about a particular idea? If so, this podcast is for you. My name is Wes McAdams, and I'll be sitting down with one of my fellow McDermott Road ministers to discuss comments, questions, and thoughts that have come up after the sermon is over. Welcome to P.S., the Post-Sermon Podcast. Thanks so much for listening to P.S., the Post Sermon Podcast. To find out more about this podcast or about the Church of Christ on McDermott Road, you can visit our website at ccmcdermott.org slash P.S. If this has been an encouragement to you, we also hope you will rate and review the show wherever you're listening, as well as share it with a friend. Because we believe sermons are not just for Sunday, but for our whole week and our whole life.

Barrett: Hey, welcome and welcome back to the PS Podcast. My name is Barrett Bingham. I'm one of the ministers at the Church of Christ on McDermott Road. Joined as always by Wes McAdams, our preaching minister here at McDermott Road. And we want to get back into yesterday's sermon, continuing the conversation, going slightly, ideally, more in-depth on what Wes ⁓ Wes shared with us. ⁓ and so thank you all for listening and for Watching and for your questions and your comments. We've got at least one that we're gonna get into today. but Wes, how are you feeling today?

Wes McAdams: Good. I'm good. It's been a while since we've done one of these. We took a week off, I was at camp and so yeah, it's good to be back at it.

Barrett: Well, two things ⁓ about camp. ⁓ that's it sounded like we planned that segue. We have not. ⁓ but you know, I'm gonna ask you some about your last week spent at Camp Blue Haven. ⁓ but we also have a kids camp going on on our McDermott Road campus as we speak and so ⁓ maybe apologizing ahead of time, it has been off and on very loud in my office and in the hallways around here, which has been really cool to see so many kids third through fifth grade, ⁓ excited to be here, excited to be learning more about Jesus. And they've got a great theme, and ⁓ we're we've got a great children's ministry staff. So ⁓ if you hear children shouting with joy, it's a good thing, and we're excited about their camp, but maybe a few distractions in this episode, we'll see. ⁓ but you did spend a long week at Camp Blue Haven with your family. but we were talking about this morning. It's not really a vacation, so and then you came back late Saturday, ⁓ and then big Sunday, you preached, teached, and preached. again so and then life group on top of that I forgot about that as well but ⁓ catch us up what was going on last week and and how did you feel when you were finally done yesterday?

Wes McAdams: Yeah. Yeah, li Camp Blue Haven is one of my favorite places in the world. And I I think that what Christian camps in general and what Blue Haven in specifically is doing in the life of young people is just amazing. And it it's a blessing not only to my boys who get to go up there and I think we took like twenty something. We didn't really take twenty-three McDermott Road young people, but twenty-three McDermott Road young people converged upon Camp Blue Haven. ⁓ there are a hundred and eighty-nine. young people all together and Holly and I got to to teach ⁓ a boys' cabin and a girls' cabin and and we all hung out together and and worked through some scriptures and and talked about following Jesus and it's just a wonderful week. But I taught every day last week, which I don't normally do, and then drove eight and a half hours home on Saturday and then and then I preached and then normally I don't teach class on Sunday mornings because we have two services and I preach both of those. But This quarter, because we are studying the Holy Spirit and I wrote the curriculum on the Holy Spirit, I get to co-teach that class. And so I'm really excited about it. But I did not stop to think about wait, I'll be coming home from camp the first week that I I dive into that. But it was good. It was a great week. We had a great ⁓ Bible class and I'm really excited about this quarter. And so it was it was really good. It's it's a good kind of exhaustion, but I'm definitely feeling it today and was feeling it a little bit yesterday.

Barrett: I bet. Did you get any rest?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, a little bit. It just depends on how much you classify as rest.

Barrett: You need, yeah, to qualify as restorative. Yeah. ⁓ well I know after second service different from first. We had a couple of responses in first service, but then, you know, after second we had three baptisms and ⁓ maybe at least one response. But ⁓ any differences in the services besides just kind of those logistical things? Like what about the preaching? Was there anything that you changed up?

Wes McAdams: Right. Yeah, not nothing intentionally. I I know that I felt I was feeling class after afterwards in second service. So I think that I did not feel as sharp in second service as I did. So I apologize to those of you that were in second service. The good news is first service is online. So if you want to go and listen to first service sermon, you can. You could you can compare for yourself. ⁓ if see see if you felt shortchanged or not. But but I I do I do remember that there was a a part of my notes that I didn't include in first service. I think I was running short on time and I did not include that. But in second service, I really pointed out at the end of the sermon that what I was encouraging people to do, what I think Jesus is encouraging us to do, is not just be quiet and take criticism, but it is a choice that we are making because we're followers of Jesus. And I really emphasize that a little bit more in second service than I did in first.

Barrett: Hmm. I think that's great. Well, and speaking of the content, let's get into it a little bit. Do you mind giving us kind of a a brief recap on another week in this Don't Freak Out series? Don't freak out when someone says you're wrong, ⁓ from First Peter three, one through seven. And ⁓ I'll let you recap and then I'll give you kind of some of my, you know, sermon notes that I took. We can discuss that, and we've got at least ⁓ again one comment that we'll get into.

Wes McAdams: Yeah, so that's the idea is that when someone says we're wrong, we tend to be defensive, we tend to get angry, we tend to panic, we tend to freak out, or at least I do. And all throughout this series I've tried to make it really clear that I'm speaking to myself first and trying to get the log out of my own eye before I point out the speck in somebody else's. But I think that we tend to do that and it affects our family relationships. This series really is focused on family, on spouses and Parents and children and siblings, and how when someone accuses us of being wrong, we feel insulted, we feel dishonored, we feel disrespected. And so we tend to respond in anger. We we tend to respond in kind and try to get back at them and hurt them the way they we feel like they've hurt us. But we really honed in on 1 Peter chapter three. The context there is that these early Christians are being insulted. They're being dishonored, they're being disrespected. The people in the community. believe that they are wrong for following Jesus, even though they know that they are right. And the encouragement, the instruction, the commandment that Peter gives them is to follow the example of Jesus, who when he was insulted, he did not insult people back. He didn't get angry. He didn't threaten people. Instead, he entrusted himself to the one who judges justly. In other words, he trusted h that his father would vindicate him, would defend him. And how we have to do the same thing. We have to trust that God will vindicate us. If we're right and we know we're right, then trust God that He's going to vindicate you. You don't have to get angry. You don't have to defend your ego. You don't have to prove that you are respectable. You don't have to restore your own honor. God does those things for us and God honors us so we don't have to be worried about the dishonor that other people show us.

Barrett: Mm. and I thought it was in a great sermon. And let's just dive right into I I thought this question got right to the the thick of it. ⁓ how can one respond in a Christ like way when someone says they're wrong without feeling attacked or threatened by what the other person says? And this person who wrote in also tagged this with I feel attacked and threatened when someone says I'm wrong. It triggers my anger. So kind of addressing the high level picture here, right? Like But when I'm told I'm wrong, I feel angry, how do I respond in a Christlike way?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, I I would say to them same. I feel my my anger is triggered as well. When somebody says that I'm wrong, I do feel attacked. Now I think there there's two different scenarios here. On the one hand, sometimes we feel attacked when we're not actually being attacked. And and just because someone disagrees with us and somebody says, Hey, I don't think you should do that, I don't think you should think that, I don't think you should say that, we may feel attacked, but we need to stop and realize that feelings, I like this saying that feelings are an indication of. Pain or pleasure, not right or wrong. And so just because something gives me pain doesn't necessarily mean that the way I feel is reality. It is not necessarily true that I'm being attacked. The other person may not be attacking me. So I need to separate my feelings from fact. And so if somebody says that I'm wrong, maybe they are attacking me and maybe they're not. So On the one hand, maybe I'm not being attacked and I need to deal with that in my own heart and my own mind. But on the other hand, maybe I am. Like maybe they are verbally attacking me and they're saying to me, Wes, you are you're ridiculous, you're small minded, you're foolish, you're silly for believing this thing or saying this thing or doing this thing. And and and let me have you reread that question again. What what does it say again?

Barrett: How can one respond in a Christlike way when someone says they're wrong without feeling attacked or threatened by what the other person says?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, let me stop right there. Without feeling attacked or threatened. Well, I mean, again, maybe you are being attacked or threatened, verbally so. You know, maybe somebody is verbally attacking you. And and in the case of these early Christians, they certainly were being verbally attacked. People were reviling them, they were insulting them. And I think that's the key here is that we have to realize that no one has promised us, including Jesus, no one has promised us. A conflict-free life. Nobody has promised us that we're not going to be attacked. And so if I'm being attacked or I just feel like I'm being attacked, I need to recognize that I'm not guaranteed quote unquote a safe space. I'm not guaranteed a place where nobody criticizes me or nobody critiques me or nobody disagrees with me. In fact, Jesus told us to expect that. So if I even if I am doing what is right and believing what is right and speaking what is right. And people are still accusing me of being wrong, and they're insulting me and dishonoring me and disrespecting me. I need to, at least to some degree, expect that that's gonna happen. And then I have to remember that Jesus went through this as well. And Jesus was not just verbally attacked, but he was physically attacked. And he still did not get angry. He did not threaten in return. Why? Because he entrusted himself to God. Now. None of us are fully there yet. I would love to say that I have that kind of God confidence so that I can respond with calmness and kindness in any given situation, but I'm not there yet. But we need to recognize that's the goal. The goal is to get there. The goal is to move one step at a time, slowly but surely, towards this more Christ-like response so that when someone disagrees with us or even verbally attacks us, we can respond not in kind, but Kindly, ki with kindness. We we don't respond the way that they they attacked us with the same words or the same tone, but we respond the way Jesus does with calmness and kindness. And the only way that we can do that is realize that the honor and respect that we want isn't necessarily ever going to come from that person, but it comes from God. And so we know that if we are being honored and loved and respected by God, we don't need the honor and respect. Of those people. But often that's what we're chasing. That's what we're trying to get. And we feel like they dishonored me, so I need to get the honor back. I need to get the respect back. And if you don't respect me, I'm gonna prove to you that you should respect me and you should listen to me and you should do what I say. Well, that's not that's not the way Jesus responded. He knew that people, humans, may never respect or honor or glorify him, but his father does. And that's where the calmness comes from. That's where the kindness comes from is recognizing that we're getting the respect that we we genuinely deserve, but we don't get it from other people. We get it from the Lord. And then we can respond in kindness even when they're not being kind.

Barrett: Yeah. That's great. Thank you, Wes. I think that's a great takeaway from that question of like it's okay. I mean, my wife says this to our boys all the time, like, you're having big feelings. It's okay to have those feelings. Those are normal feelings. It shouldn't change our reaction, you know, like we we should still respond a certain way, even though we feel attacked or threatened, and and it shouldn't change our Christ-like response. So ⁓ I I loved some of the big takeaways here and and I'll ask you about a couple of things but well well let's let's start here this passage specifically in in you know first peter three about ⁓ you know wives be submissive or be subject to your husbands You it's one of those when we had our ⁓ in first service it was it was Todd who who read the passage and then, you know, reads the whole thing and then he gets off and it's like, Where are we going with this sermon here? you know, of I know we're kind of in our family series, but it's about don't freak out and so ⁓ you know, I have probably a better idea than some of the people in the audience, but when you read that passage you're like man, are we talking about wives being submissive and then kind of tacking on just a little bit at the end about husbands or where are we going here? ⁓ and so I thought it was really neat what you did with it and just kind of taking what could have been a kind of controversial maybe that's a strong word, but it can be a controversial passage. And it what you said I thought was great about, you know, this has been used to ⁓ abuse and and subjugate people and used out of context a lot. And so I just wanted you to kind of address ⁓ and maybe recap some of that portion of the sermon as well of like here he is addressing wives specifically, but there's a lot to learn for f for men and women and all Christians, ⁓ you know, in this passage that is often taken out of context. Could you

Wes McAdams: Yeah. These these ideas of household codes were not unique to the New Testament. There were other people in the ancient world that were giving household codes to say this is the way men should behave, this is the way women should behave, this is the way children should behave, this is the way slaves should behave, this is the way masters should behave, and here's what you're supposed to do. And it wasn't unusual for wives to be told to submit. Now, most of the the pagan philosophers that were giving these sort of household codes. We're saying women should submit because they are inferior, because men are men are superior to women, and men should be in charge because of all of these things. Paul and Peter, when they give these household codes, are not following that pattern. What they are saying is, yes, yes, submit to your husbands, but do so because you're actually submitting to King Jesus. Do so because of what Jesus did. And it's impossible. Empowering to these Christian women to say, you are not submitting to this man because of who he is, or because of what he's done, or because he's even respectable, but because of who Jesus is and because of what Jesus has done. And we have to acknowledge how these passages like this have been misused. And so I don't think you can just read them and not say. If you have heard this used in this way, or you have used them in this way, this is a misuse of scripture. It is a misuse of scripture for a man to take this verse and say, See here, woman, you need to submit to me because that's what the Bible says. No, no, no. The Bible isn't giving you a weapon to use against your wife. If anything, what the Bible is saying to you is to live with your wife in an understanding way. And if you don't listen to her, then God isn't gonna listen to you. So Using this passage as a way to bludgeon someone else to say, submit to me is not what it is. In fact, it's giving women this godly Christ-like example, this choice to live out the gospel within the context of their marriage, and specifically within the context of a marriage where they're married to a man who is not a believer, and say, How do I live out the gospel?

Barrett: Right.

Wes McAdams: When my husband is telling me, you're wrong for following Jesus, you're wrong for believing in him, you're wrong for confessing his name. How do I live this out? And Peter is giving them instructions and empowering them to say, this is what it looks like to be like Jesus within the context of my marriage. And again, there's so much that we can learn from that today, regardless of what kind of marriage we are, we're we're in. We're all called to live out the gospel in the context of our of our relationships, not just marriage, but parenting and every other relationship. And there are going to be times where there's conflict. How do we do that? Well, we approach it with submission and respect and showing honor and being kind and being gentle and being quiet and not arguing our position or trying to demand respect. And so the the irony, the the just total inappropriateness. Of using this passage to try to manipulate respect and honor from someone else by bludgeoning or hitting somebody over the head with this passage. I mean, it's like, did you even read it? Do you do you even understand what Peter is saying? He's saying, All of you, regardless of your role or your relationship, be like Jesus. And if you're using this to say, see, you should respect me, you should honor me, you should submit to me. That's the exact opposite of the application that he's making. He's saying, regardless whether you're a husband or wife, a child, a servant, a master, whatever your role is, submit to the other people, respect the other people, honor the other people, be kind to the other people, stop demanding respect from them. And even if they treat you like you're wrong, entrust yourself to God, who is the ultimate vindicator. You don't have to vindicate yourself, you don't have to defend your ego. God will do that for you if you are walking in faith and you are following the example of Jesus.

Barrett: I think that's great. And there's such a big application, like yesterday I kept coming back to whether this is written to husbands or wives, like this says a lot about my personal evangelism and interactions and relationships with everybody, right? F family, code, household or not, you know, how I am talking with and interacting with those that are actively disagreeing with me, attacking me, or just have a different worldview and opinion. than I do or, you know, whether they think it's an opinion or like my way of life, right? Or the whatever the disagreement is, like I should live in submission to these people as image bearers of Christ, that I should be trying to outdo them with honor and kindness, you know, whether they're my brother and sister or they are, you know, an enemy to Christ. Like I'm have to have a different mentality in how I view other people, whether it's somebody that goes to church with me or that cut me off in traffic, right? ⁓ classic go to preacher example there. But and for the sake of time, 'cause I know that you and I both have a lot of moving pieces today, I'm gonna jump down to kind of the the end of the sermon and our our big takeaway and then we'll see w ⁓ where we end up here. But In in chapter three, First Peter three, eight and nine specifically, you know, he's kind of wrapping up and he says, like, hey, finally, and he's talking to all of you. I've addressed, you know, the household, you know, husbands, wives, all of you, everybody, you know, have this unity of mind and don't do these things. Don't ⁓ you know, curse because you've been cursed necessarily, but ⁓ on the contrary, live for and have this united mindset on I want to bless. Because you were called to bless so that you may obtain a obtain a blessing and I love that kind of breakdown and like, hey, we're doing this you know, I wanna bless for a blessing, which is kind of a ⁓ a gr exciting thing, but ⁓ and a and I thought you got a huge laugh. I'll pause my question and kind of my last point here to say I love first service, what a generous audience, ⁓ first service at McDermott Road. Very responsive all the time. ⁓ and I you know, second service is great too, but I find myself First service a lot and with my family. And you said, you know, we're not blessing in an ironic way of, ⁓ bless their hearts. Huge laugh, right? Just the keep the joke that keeps on giving, the bless their hearts joke. But ⁓ you know, we're called to bless, and we're supposed to have this united mindset on blessing others. And you broke it down, and there's really two ways to respond, right? There's the way of the world and there's the way of Christ. So the ⁓ you know, responding with blessing or responding in kind in the way that the world responds. ⁓ how would you kind of wrap up ⁓ a kind of a a a bigger picture of that, where you landed yesterday?

Wes McAdams: Yeah. Yeah, that it we all struggle with this. This is the natural response. It's the physical response when somebody criticizes us, when somebody says that we're wrong, when somebody insults us, to respond with anger and and fear and frustration and and try to prove ourselves. I mean, it really comes down to that. It comes down to trying to prove ourselves. And that's the beauty of the gospel is that I can respond in the second way, in the way of Christ, we can respond in the way of Christ because we don't have to prove ourselves. We don't have to defend ourselves. We can step out of self-preservation mode because we are saved. Saved people don't have to preserve themselves. Saved people don't have to preserve their ego. They don't have to even preserve their life. And so we don't have to defend ourselves anymore because we have a defender. And that's the thing. That's why we do so many of the things that we do. It's why. Women, even in the first century, braided their hair and wore their jewelry and wore fancy clothes. And why we still do that? Why even my teenage sons talk about their drip is because we want to be respected. We we want to prove ourselves and we're constantly trying to prove ourselves, especially when we feel like people are trying to disprove us and dishonor us and disrespect us. We try to push back against that. What if? And that's really my big challenge of this sermon was. What if? What would it look like in your family? How would it change your life and your family relationships if you said, I'm not gonna do that anymore? I'm not gonna play that game. I'm saved. God has honored me, and the honor that God gives us far outweighs any dishonor that anyone else could show us. What if I really believed that? How would it change my life? How could I approach every conflict with calmness and kindness? If I really believe that I don't have to preserve my ego, I don't have to preserve my reputation because I'm entrusting myself to the one who judges justly. And if I'm right, then he'll vindicate me. And I don't have to vindicate myself. It would change my marriage. It would change my relationship with my kids. It would change my relationship with my neighbors. It would change my relationship with my parents and my siblings. And it could change the world if we really believed this: that I am so saved. That I can be calm and I can be confident, not self-confidence, but God confidence. I can be kind even when other people are attacking me. Whether I just feel attacked or they're literally attacking me, I can be kind and calm. I can bless them even when they curse me, but only because I know what God has done, what God is doing, and what God will do. You you pointed out that idea of to obtain a blessing. And often The blessing we want is I want you to bless me. I want Barrett to bless me. I want my wife to bless me. I want the people in my life to say and do good things about me. But really, we need to understand it's God. The blessing comes from God and God always blesses us. The people in our life, it's hard to know whether they will ever bless us. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't, but that's not the point. The point is God always blesses us when we do things in the way of Christ. And if we choose to follow Jesus in faith, we have a blessing from God. And we don't have to get it from the people around us, which means we can give blessings even when they're not reciprocated. Even when other people don't bless us back, we can bless them anyway because God has blessed us, is blessing us, and will bless us.

Barrett: Wes, you did a great job of taking my convoluted non question and turning it into a great answer that went back and grabbed a lot of stuff from the sermon, including the this is why we often care so much about our outward appearance. Like I thought that was a huge takeaway. And you probably could have ended the sermon there of like Hey, we we don't have to care about that anymore. And wouldn't it be so freeing and look so different if our church and as Christians, as the body, like just didn't get hung up on that stuff anymore. And ⁓ yeah, thank you for going back and getting the line. The the honor God gives us outweighs any dishonor that someone else could show us because ⁓ again, a great place to land the plane and and end on that. of even if it's not reciprocated on this side of eternity, right? Like that we are ⁓ going to obtain a blessing if we have this mentality, this approach to life, if we are ⁓ you know, entering into conflict with this mentality or if someone disagrees with us, whatever it is. So ⁓ Wes, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate your answers and and your sermon yesterday. I thought it fantastic. I'm excited ⁓ to see where we're going next week. Are you preaching next week?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, yeah. Next week is Father's Day. So it is the end of our Don't Freak Out series. Hopefully it's not the end of of the concept. Hopefully we keep reminding ourselves not to freak out. But next week we're talking about fathers. And so often on Father's Day, when people go to church, they get beat up. And I hope that we can do the opposite this this week. In fact, the the series their the sermon next week is Don't Freak Out When You Mess Up. And we've all messed up. We we don't need to get beat up. We we sometimes We panic and we overreact because we know we're guilty and we feel ashamed and we feel like we've messed up. And that causes us to spiral downward. What if we really believed that we are forgiven? And how would that change the way that we parent or the way that we interact with our spouse or the way that we interact in every relationship if we really believe that, yeah, absolutely I've messed up. I've messed up more times than I've done it right. But I am fully and completely forgiven by God in Christ, how would that change the way that we live out our relationships?

Barrett: That's awesome. Cannot wait to hear that one. Very exciting stuff. And so again, thanks Wes. And thank you all for watching. Thank you all for listening. We appreciate you guys. Leave your comments below. And we hope you'll send in your questions and comments in the weeks to come. Thanks for your time and we'll catch you next time.