Calvain Culberson: Yeah, thanks for having me on Rob. I appreciate it man. It's been a long time. I tell you man, I miss the Chieftains, man. That's right. Yeah, he's such a good guy, man. tell you, now that he's doing broadcasts, the pregame, postgame stuff, some of that Braves vision and stuff, man. It's good to see him back in the game again once he retired. And he's a good ambassador for the game of baseball and for the Braves. Yeah. Yeah, I was kind of a late bloomer, but I ⁓ good in high school. tell you, had some good memories of everybody playing in high school. And it's different back then than it is now, because they play so many more games now in high school. We didn't play that many. We were high school. You know, they got the benefit of playing whatever 30 games now or 35 games. we played maybe 20 or 18 or something like that. And then, and then, ⁓ then you had a break and then you went into summer league and you know, Hey, these guys, ⁓ guys play gosh, probably 80 to a hundred games year round now where we have the benefit. We didn't have the luxury of that. Yeah, I mean, that's it. And then you had the rest of your summer to be a kid, play around, do whatever, and for school to start back up again. It was probably baseball. mean, I saw, you know, my, I had a brother Charles that played ⁓ he went, he played at Jacksonville state over in Alabama. Then he played professionally with the giants for, know, two or three or four years. And then with Kansas city for a couple of years. So we always, and even my sister and my older brother, I mean, we'd always get out in the yard, we'd play sock ball or willful ball or something like that. I mean, we was always doing something along those lines. Neighborhood kids come over and would have big backyard game. I mean, that's just, that's what you did. I you played backyard willful ball or you get a sock and tape it up and throw it. And we use broomsticks or whatever to hit with. I mean, it's kind of cliche, but that's what we did. I mean, we just had a good time. and just enjoyed being outside. I was probably seven or eight. This was when the boys club was over. I played one year of machine pitch and then I think that was I was seven and then when I turned eight, then we started to have, actually back then we didn't have coach pitch. It was like kid pitch. So I started pitching when I was about eight years old. For the boys at the boys club. I played for ⁓ think it was the Mets or I think it was the name of the team I played for over there. I I started pitching about when I was eight years old. Yes. Central, Forsyth, and ⁓ West Rome, West, that's the ⁓ That's it. Yeah. Yep. Played behind the Leve, sure did. I started playing, it was like, it was called Mustang when I was nine and 10, and then Bronco, 11, 12, and then Pony League, and then Colt League. You know, most of the coaches I had were all good guys. I learned a lot about playing the game from my brothers and sister just out in the yard playing and stuff and then watching, watching, uh, twib notes, you know, used to be twib notes and we'd watch, watch that, watch some baseball and then, uh, but. I had some good coaches. Mr. Spain when I was younger and behind the boys club. guy named Mr. Stanley when I went over behind the Levee. Mr. Ashworth. Eddie Ashworth's dad. He coached me ⁓ a while. I learned a lot from him over there. The guy that coached the All-Star teams, Doyle. I learned a lot from those guys. You know, you go along the way learning the rules and learning more about situational playing and stuff like that as I got older from those guys, but all of them, can learn something from all of them if you just listen, you and pay attention and ⁓ not that you know everything. You know, growing up, I would have to say there was two of them. One, we were in, I think we were my year in Coat League, or was it my last year in Pony League? We lost the ⁓ regional championship game up in Samurna to a team out of Miami to go the World Series then. That was kind of heartbreaking. And then my last year in Coat League, think it was 83, 83. We actually made it to the Coat League World Series up in Lafayette, Indiana. And we lost the quarterfinal game to California and had to come home. Yeah, was those two games were kind of tough because I thought we I thought we should have won those games and you know, just. You know, bad break here or there and you know we're coming home and they're going on, you know. I guess, know, winning those games to get to those type of tournaments, you know, we won the championship game actually it was in Lawton, Oklahoma of all places to go to the Coat League World Series in 83. And then the first game, I remember the first game of the Coat League World Series that we played up in Indiana, Lafayette, Indiana. can't remember the team we beat, but we won that game and it was the first time we'd ever won something like that, coming out of Rome. And actually, I'm going brag on myself a little bit. At the time, I for the cycle that game. It was the first time somebody hit for the cycle in the Coat League World Series. ⁓ That record stood for a good while and then there's a couple other people that tied it along the way. But I think I was the first one to do that when we did that in 83. I think it was, I think that I I hit a double first time up. The next time up, I hit a triple. Then I a home run and then I hit a single. Yeah, I had the easiest one the last time up. I, you know, and everybody was talking about it. And I said, Hey Calvin, all you gotta do is hit a single, man. You gotta hit a single. You know, and I'm... ⁓ And I'm sitting up there at the plate going, come on, man. I'm nervous, I'm sweating. I'm like, come on, man. And I was fortunate. hit one of those CNI hits ⁓ got a single, ⁓ then, heck, I'm what, 15 years old or something. I'm up at first going, yeah, I got it, I got it. It a lot of fun, man. ⁓ And we a really good team when we went up there. It was just unfortunate that it didn't work out for us. No, no, you didn't get a trophy unless you won the once you won the league or you finished second. Everybody else, I mean, just thanks for coming and playing. I mean, you went home. I mean, it's, you know, it's a, you either won the championship or, they gave you a runner up past that third and fourth and all that. And shoot, man, thanks for playing. You know, we'll see you next year. You know, I mean that, you know, and I think a lot of that teaches a lot of, you know, makes you want to. ⁓ teaches you how to win, makes you want to learn how to win games. Because that's not important and all it is is just play and then. You know, I mean, what's the benefit of it? you want to learn how to play, obviously. I mean, everybody wants to learn how to play and learn the fundamentals. But you learn that early on. But as you get older, as you keep developing those skills, you better learn how to win, too. I mean, that's part of the game. You got ⁓ that wins? If why have a scoreboard? I mean, you know, that's. why have a scoreboard if you ain't gonna have to worry about winning and losing? mean, and it teaches character and it teaches development, it teaches grit. It teaches you a lot of things that really that carries over into everyday life. mean, you You you're going for jobs or you're going for, you know, whatever. mean, you want to the one that they pick. So it you how to be resilient and plan and prepare and work hard. And because that's life's about, you got to work hard through it. Yeah. Yeah, went to, it was funny. I was going to go to Georgia State there in Atlanta and it's only, it was only offer I had coming out of high school really. I mean, I was. I tried out for Middle Georgia. I got a letter from them down there. But I was going to go to Georgia State because my sister was living in Atlanta at the time and I was going live with her and go to Georgia State. they had a tryout camps up in Atlanta over at DeKalb South, which was a junior college at the time before they all merged into. Georgia State, was three, DeKalb, South, North, and Central. And they was holding a Braves professional camp, know, tryout time there in the summer. And it just so happened that Coach Roberts, who's the head coach at Armstrong at the time, brought a couple of his players up to tryout also. They were invited up and Coach Roberts saw me at the camp. He had a common friend. You remember Roman Sporting Goods that used to be in Rome. The guy that run that over there, Al Thomas. was also like a, he was like a scout, bird dog, helped scout some with clubs. And he knew, cause coach Roberts bought all of his sporting goods stuff from up there at Romans. And Al Thomas had told coach Roberts at the time, said, Hey man, so there's a kid up here that I think you ought to take a look at. can pitch and he can play. know, he's worth taking a look at, you know, if you ever get a chance. And ⁓ just happened to see me up there at the camp at that trial camp and ended up, getting a hold of me and through, I don't know if you remember the name, Rene Briner. He used to be a basketball coach. Yeah, was the head basketball coach at Armstrong at that time and athletic Randy Briner actually called me and said, hey Calvin, you hadn't signed yet, have you? And I said, no, I said, I'm about to sign with Georgia State. And he's like, don't do it. So I hold on, man. said, Coach Roberts, he wants to talk to you. He saw you up at the camp. He's talked to a couple of people. He said, don't sign yet. He's going to call you. And I said, I got to turn this stuff in in a couple of days. And he said, don't do it, man. Just wait. I said, okay, I said, I'll go, you know, and he called and, Things just worked out and ⁓ I ended up down here to Savannah, Georgia to play baseball down here. Cuz ⁓ the time Armstrong was on their way from NAIA up to Division I. We helped the Big South Conference, what ended up being the Big South Conference. ⁓ And stayed there from my first three years in school and then we dropped back down to Division II ⁓ my year in 88. Yes, you the, you're talking about getting on a radar. You know, I was on, there was a camp for the Reds there behind the levee. His name was Camp Boniface that ran that. He ended up being like a scout director and GM for the Pirates and a couple of teams. I met him at one of those. And then the guy that saw me at that brace camp. His name was Rod Gilbert and it was running it along with Red Wooten and Ted Sparks and a couple other guys that was at the Braves. They actually talked to me after the camp and said, hey, where are you going to school? We'd like to put you on a list and kind of follow you, wherever you're going. And I told him I was coming to Armstrong and. That's how I kinda, I mean, if you wanna say get put on a radar, mean, I guess that's kinda, they said, well, you go to school, said you can't get drafted until you're a junior, until you're 21. I said, that's fine, mean, heck, mean, every kid dreams of playing. I mean, that's what you wanna do. But I said, that's fine. I said, I wanna go enjoy playing baseball. What's that? I'm not sure how it is now getting drafted. It may still be the same where you gotta be 21. I think if you enter a four year school out of high school, I think you have to be 21 or be there for three years, I think. Now I could be wrong, I mean, I've been out of the game for a little bit. I mean, the things like that change, so it may have. Boy, I tell you, Boy, I tell you, it'd been nice to have some of that, man, going in college, I tell you. Man. You know. I guess it started creeping in a little bit after my sophomore year in college. Actually, I got hurt my sophomore year in college. I hurt my knee. But I was having a good year and I was like, you know. My knee comes back and then after the fall of my junior year, cuz we could still play fall games back then when I was here and then it did away with them for a while. And I was like, I might have a chance. I a couple of teams talk to me a little bit during fall. But I didn't think much about it. I'm like, hey, man, you know, it's just, I'm just going to do the best I can. And you know, if you like me, you do. If you don't, you know, tell me what I need to do so you do like me. I said, I want to play, you know? I said, that's all I want to do. I said, just tell me what I can do. But it started creeping in a little bit my junior year, because I had a really good junior year down here. And I thought, man, I might have a chance this year. I mean, I. Cause I put up some good numbers and I was like, man, I was like, on. You know, cause I was like, but it didn't happen. And you know, which is, it was disappointing. That was, that was kind of disappointing. Cause I thought I really had a chance my junior year. Cause I did have some good numbers and I went playing to Cape for a little bit and, did okay there. Had to come back home and play in Atlanta and had a good summer there, but had a scout talk to me in the summer. but. It just didn't for whatever reason. I mean, it just didn't happen and that's okay. I mean, it was disappointing, like, you I just go and work harder and you know, got one more year to try. So. ⁓ shoot, I tell you that was, we got, ⁓ I think the draft was back then the draft was the first week of June, I think, or I think it was like the third, fourth, fifth or fourth, fifth, sixth, something like that back then, those days. we'd gotten ⁓ my year, ⁓ it the first time at our university, we made it to the College World Series that year in 88. It was over Montgomery, Alabama. ⁓ And we got out. And I was sitting there and dug out and I was thinking, man, this can't be over. This can't be it, man. I said, I love this game too much, man. I want to keep playing as long as I can. And I was just sitting there. was just hoping, man. then back then, you didn't have computers that much where you could sit and just watch the draft list go by. It was like, First day goes by, if you don't get a phone call, you're like, dang, you know I mean? It's like, what? Second day, why? What's going on, man? You know what mean? was like, ⁓ well. I said, well. And I started talking, I was like, well, I guess I'll just have to try and go to some tryout camps to see. And then the next day, I got a phone call from the Braves, and had taken me in the 42nd round that year, senior year. Boy, could hear it. I'm surprised they didn't hear me screaming up in Roan, Georgia, man. was yelling and screaming, Finally got a chance, man. That was one of the happiest days ever, getting a chance say I got a chance to play professional baseball. I flew out like the next, they said, you're going to be flying out like in two days. So make sure you get all your stuff. You're flying out in two days. well, I ain't got much, so I'm ready. me and where. I went up my first year when I got drafted, I went to rookie ball up in the Appalachian league in Pulaski, Virginia. That's where I was at. Played there. No, no, that's where I went my first year was Pulaski, Virginia. No, it was funny. It was funny because when they called, they told me, said, you know, we'd like to welcome you to Atlanta Braves. You know, we drafted you in you know, four-second man. And we're going to give you a thousand dollars to sign, non-negotiable. And we'll have your plane ticket. You know, to Pulaski, Virginia would be out in a couple of days and you know, somebody will pick you up from the airport and take you to the hotel. said. Thank you very much. sure look forward to it. That's what happened. Well, things are so different now. it's, I mean, back when I, I mean, I say back when I played, but you know, when I, when I got drafted in 88, I mean, the first, that first, first, my first page, I mean, we got paid $700 a month. Yeah. And, uh, 350, 350 bucks every two weeks is what, what I made my first year playing rookie ball. And, uh, and, and you had to pay rent out of that. You had to buy food. You gotta do your washing, you know, everything. mean, that, mean, so, I mean, you kind of live with about two or three, four guys, you know, in a place just to get by. And then you still had to play, you still had to pay clubhouse dues each day, which was whatever, a dollar, it was like a dollar and a quarter, a dollar 50 or something each day to the clubhouse guy. So I mean, it's for them to wash your clothes and, you have some, you know, a little bit there for you to eat and drink or whatever after BP's and after the game. I mean, it was tough, man. tell you, try to live on. And that's before taxes. taxes, it was a lot less. So, you know what? We didn't care, man. It's like, shoot, man, I'm playing baseball, man. Is every dream to do something like it? To have a professional jersey on and have that of making money? keep moving along and making money. I mean, it's like, yeah, it was tough. But shoot, man, I didn't care. I was like, heck, I'm happy. I'm doing something I dreamed. Every kid dreams about since they was seven, eight years old playing in the yard, I tell you, that's the one thing that you talk about. You got a three year contract, you're in the big leagues. mean, you go over three, over four, you go over 12. You know what, I'm still gonna be in the lineup tomorrow. I'm still gonna have my job. But in the minor leagues, if you go over three or over 12, or something, that starts creeping in. It's like, damn, man. pressure starts building a little bit. I got to get a couple of hits, man. I don't care if it's a flare out and out field or a CNI hit, you know, according to Crash Davis, CNI hit, you know, those things, man, at the end of the day in the book, it's a hit. It's all about, you can hit four line drives and they all get caught. Hey man, you're over four. You get three CNI hits, you're three for four. That's a big difference, you know? But it, you know, those, 0 for 3s, 0 for 4s for a game, you don't worry about it as much. But when they start going 0 for 10, 1 for 12, then the pressure starts getting to you a little bit because it's like, gosh, they can release me and bring somebody up. So you know what? We'll get somebody else a chance. So though it's a lot of fun and you enjoy doing it, there's still some pressure there because then you're getting paid to play. I mean, it's your job then. I mean, that's what it's about. And I think that's what helped. That's what kind of helped me a little bit growing up because, you know, they didn't give out participation trophies or, you know, stuff like it just for playing, you know, you had to win, you know, to get something and that you can rely back to that. can revert back to that a little bit and think, man, I got to work harder. You know, I mean, you know, I got to work harder than the next guy because there's somebody behind you is working just as hard or harder trying to take your job from me. So you got to. You gotta work hard to stay there. You know, I mean, you know, it's funny cause you, you know, you say, you know, when you're there, everybody that you're with is the best at where they were. So it's not like you're the best anymore. I you're, you're there. I mean, obviously, I mean, there's some people there. mean, you know, the first rounders and the second rounders, know, but for the most part, you're, you're on the level with everybody else. So I mean, You got to figure out how to do something better than the guy that's standing there with you, you know, to show the coaching staff that your name deserves to be in the lineup instead of somebody else's. So, um, you know, and like I say, it makes it a little bit tougher, you know, when you're, when you're trying to pick apart and you're talking to your coaches like what you you're seeing something maybe that I don't feel right doing this or you know, you're trying to pick their brains to to see if they, you know, if they're able to help you a little bit, you know, if they see something or they might suggest something that might help you along the way and then you got to work on that, you know, before the games and then BP and on your own, you know, whatever so that when it comes game time, you just got to go out play and let your take over. mean, you can't be thinking about that stuff while you're playing, cuz then you just compound the issues you can't do that during the course of the game. You know, I was fortunate, I had some good coaches at each stop that I was able to make in the minor leagues. Because I played a couple of years with the Braves as an outfielder before I got released by them because my second year, my first year I was up in, like I said, Pulaski. We had some good coaches, guy named Smokey Burgess was our hit instructor that played in the big leagues for a while. He was our hit instructor. had some guy named Keening and it was one of our coaches. Coy Boyer was our manager. We had some good coaches there that could help you. And two, I was friends with most of the guys on the team and we'd help each other out, much as we could. I was fortunate enough to My first year when I got drafted, Steve Avery was our first pick. And then he came in town and I was able, even though he was seven to 18 at the time, he was a little bit, you could tell he was a little more advanced than some people. And so I'd ask him some questions, if you're throwing to me, what would you do? And he might not even remember that now if you ever asked him, he probably only remember who I am. Yeah, you know, mean, because if you're when I was a hitter, that's what I would want to do is ask the pitcher if you're facing me, how would you get me out? What are you saying that I'm doing that I can make an adjustment to, you know, so that I don't get out that way? know, Turquendale was one of our pitchers then at pitching the big leagues for a long time. And, you know, I was fortunate to be able to play with some guys like that early on in ⁓ second year. Ned Yost was our manager, and he was a real smart guy and helped you out along the way. picked his brain some, that year for whatever reason, I just couldn't get on track. And it was a bad year for me and I knew I was probably going to, probably iffy if it was going to bring me back. So when they released me in the off season, was real lucky because I had a pretty strong arm from the outfield and I pitched in high school and at the camps and stuff. And so I ended up, said, you know what? Nobody wants me as a hitter anymore. I said I get it cuz I was what 23 at the time I guess and it's hard. It's hard to get back in the game like that when you get older and you're player. So I said, you know what, I'm gonna pitch. I'm gonna try pitching cuz I used to do it and went to a couple invite camps for the Reds and the or whatever ⁓ and signed me. in the fall of what, 89, I guess it was when I got released. said it'd take me to campus and picture. And said, hey man. ⁓ So I mean, man, I just want a chance. I want a jersey. I want to get back out there and I want to keep playing and give it my best shot. So that's what I did. I turned, started pitching. I already had the knowledge a little bit. I just needed to build on it and learn, you know, some more, you know, more things about pitching as I got older, you know, cause I didn't do it in college or anything else. And so that's what I did. So I went to spring training at 90 with the Reds as a pitcher. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, my next year I just for whatever reason I just couldn't get on track. I only hit like 200 or something 205 or something like that. My you know in the long season and I just I don't know I just. Nothing ever clicked that year for me. I mean, I tried everything I could think of. And I guess that's probably the worst thing I could have done is I tried way too much. I tried way too many things instead of just, you know what? I'm just gonna go back to what got me here, you know, and just. know, whatever happens happens, but I just tried way too much stuff and got my head and you get in your head mentally, ⁓ it's hard, And I just couldn't get out of it. then there was, I was just stuck. Yeah, yeah, I I ran into a couple here. I'd run into a couple here and there, but you know, like I said, you gotta do better than what I did. And I knew at the end of that year that that was probably gonna be, you I was probably gonna get cut. And I was hoping beyond hope that since I had a good first year that they would just kinda consider it an anomaly or something other and give me another chance. Just too many players. mean, back then, there's just too many players. And said, sorry, man, we just, ⁓ gotta move on. said, I understand. That happened a lot more than what people realize. you get stuck behind those people and it doesn't matter how well you do. mean, there's no place for you to go and hope that maybe another organization is looking it and say, hey, they you in the rule five draft or. They always say is you put up numbers, somebody will give you a chance if you put up numbers, but sometimes that ain't always the case. Sometimes you gotta be in the right place at the right time and you're doing well. Somebody in the big leagues goes down on the IL for a little bit and you get that call up because you were doing well at the right place at the right time. You go up there and you do well and shoot. Even though if you go back down, you got the experience they call it and shoot man, you're always a big leaguer then. that's how ⁓ lot of it's how it works, and ⁓ just a lot of guys. ⁓ a lot of guys I mean, you've seen here recently that get called up this 30 years old or 31 or something other which back when I was playing was kind of rare. I mean, if didn't get in the big leagues, By the time you were in late 20s, you ain't gonna get there. I mean, it didn't matter how long you waited around. And nowadays it's a little bit different for whatever reason. I don't know why, but it's just a little bit different. it takes a lot of resilience and just four to two just to keep playing and just hanging in there and giving it. until they take your jersey. I always told our guys, you know, we had a few guys that played and I said, listen, man, I said, if I can give you any kind of advice, one, always remember do what got you there. I said, if you start struggling or what, remember what got you there. You're, you know, you're there for a reason and you got there for a reason. And, and, uh, and two, just, just, I mean, listen and, uh, take Not every, you know, listen to what somebody is talking about, you know, your coaches and whatever and what take from it, what you think is going to help you and apply it some the rest of it. Hey man, said don't work for me. This works for me. What you said, I'll use that. just, said, play until nobody gives you a jersey again. I said, because nobody's been turned down from ⁓ and in college or school again. I said, but once ⁓ baseball over and nobody gives you a jersey, you ain't going back. So play long as you can until nobody gives you a jersey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, I was, uh, the, the year I started pitching in 90, I had, I had a real good manager and he managed, they coached in the big leagues for gosh, 20 something years. His name was Jimmy let he was my manager in Charleston, West Virginia. When I got, I was in extended spring training because I was learning how to pitch. And, um, I want to tell you a quick little funny story here. If I got a sec, can I do this? My first year pitch, I'm in spring training at night, I never pitched in a professional ball game. And was getting towards the end of spring training. clubhouse comes over says, ⁓ not the clubhouse guy, but Jimmy let he come in and say, hey, Colby. He said, gonna go the big league team down to Bradenton today. I looked at him, said, do what? He said, yeah, we've a split squad game. and they need extra pitchers, so you're gonna go with the big league team to Bradenton, Florida to play the Pirates. So you need to go to the other clubhouse, you know, and get your stuff or whatever and get on the bus. You're all gonna be leaving to go to Bradenton. And I'm sitting there thinking, I've never pitched in a professional baseball game. And you're gonna send me with the big league team to play the Pirates. I said, all right. You know, okay. So I'm nervous, man. So I go over to the big league clubhouse and just kind of walking around lost ⁓ the trainer comes up and says, hey man, send these stuffs over here, get all this, you're going to be on the bus, we'll fix and leave. I okay. So I go climbing on the bus and Ken Griffey senior's on the bus ⁓ and a named Ron Oster who's playing and all them guys are on the bus, Norman Charlton, he pitched that game. ⁓ So all guys are on the bus. And I'm sitting there and I go walking on the bus and I'm kind of looking around and I go over and sit down and I'm like, look at all these guys, man. I said, I watched these guys on TV. And they're all doing their thing. And we get down to the big league clubhouse in Brayton and I go walking in there and I'm sitting there looking at it. And there was a cut, was a, we had another catcher go with us. That was an eight ball catcher that needed a backup catcher. So we're kind of talking, we knew each other. we go walking out of the clubhouse onto the field and you know they got to know they got to spread in a clubhouse you know they got gum, seeds, you know all this stuff in there so I walk in by and I'm picking up a couple packs of seeds and some gum put it in my glove you know to go out I remember Ken Griffey senior comes by he says hey man said they're gonna have all that in a dugout said you ain't gotta worry about putting it your glove And I said, I'm So I put it all back before we go out onto the field. So we go down to the field, we're playing the game. That's when they had Bonds and Bobby Bonilla and Wally Backman and all these guys are playing. And ⁓ was a seven and a ball game. He gets the sixth inning of the game. The manager of the thing says, down, the pitching guy comes down and says, hey, Culberson. He said, go down and get loose. I'm sitting there, I'm like, what? He said, go down there and start throwing and get loose. I said, oh man, I'm running around, I got my glove. I go running down, I go running down the bullpen. I'm down there being that catcher. I'm sitting there, I'm just. I'm catching and throwing as fast as I can. I'm just huffing, whoa, And Griffith Sr. was playing left field. they went out to the mound or something other. ⁓ And laughing. goes, hey man, he goes, slow down, man. you making me tired watching you throw over there, man. said, slow down. And I'm sitting there and I look at him and said, I said, man, I'm nervous. I said, I'm nervous. He laughed. said, I hear you man. He said, just slow down. said, you all right, just slow down. So I'm throwing. So I'm loose. I'm loose. I'm waiting there for them to tell me if I got to get on the mound. Well, the inning ends. We go to the seventh. Seventh inning, we're up by a run or something like that. end up loading the bases on Charlton. And pitching coach comes out and says, hey man, get ready. This is the most, get ready. So I jump up on the mound and I'm chunking. I'm just a fire. And he steps out of the dugout, lifts his hat up, because that's the sign, are you ready? So I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm ready. And Wally Backman was hitting. And there was two outs. Wally Backman was hitting. And Bobby Bonilla was on deck. And it got to three and two. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, oh, gosh, you know, I'm like, get him out. So I ain't got to go in and get him out. And he ends up punching him out and we win the game and always shaking hands and just in pitching coach walks by and says, Hey, Culver said, he said, you know, now said, if he walks him, he said, you're getting, you're in that game to face Bonilla. He said, you know how to get him out, right? And I was like, I was gonna try. I said, I don't know how I was gonna do it. I said, but I was gonna try. He had a phenomenal year that year. And I was like, God, that'd been my first big league guy with a face Bobby Benioff during that time, man. I was like, good Lord. But it would have been fun to do, don't get me wrong. But never having pitched in a professional game, and that'd been your first time. But I had a blast though, man. It was so much fun around them big league guys and the bus and all that. Man, it was so much fun, man. Golly, man. was like, yeah. ⁓ yeah. I was like, shoot, let's do it, man. ⁓ But I want to tell that story because that's one of my best ones about me because I was so nervous, man. But that was so much fun. Gosh, that was the best time. Jimmy Let, going back to Jimmy Let, he was a real good guy. I remember first time when I got called up from extended spring, I went to Charleston. My first game ever pitching professionally, other than extended spring, mean, this was like A ball. I'm in the dugout getting ready to take the mound. He comes up and he said, hey, Colby. He said, listen, man, he said, I know you're nervous. He said. He said, we wouldn't have called you up, or we wouldn't have had you up here if we didn't think you'd do the job. He said, all I'd tell you, he said, you go out and you throw the ball as hard as you can, for as long as you can. He said, when you had enough, I'll come get you. That's all he told me. He said, you throw it as hard as you can for as long as you can. And when I think you've had enough, I'll come get you. I said, I can do that. He said, let's go get them then. And I always remember that when I was a pitcher. I took the mound, I always threw the ball as hard as I could for as long as I could. Because if I ever gave up hits or if I got beat, I wanted to get beat with my good stuff all the time. I never wanted to let up and throw a BP fastball or this or that. Because if somebody got a hit on me or I got beat, I got beat with my best stuff. And that's the one thing I always remembered. You know, as a pitcher, you're gonna hit me, you're gonna hit my best stuff. Yeah, that was my, I was mainly a fastball pitcher back in the day. And I kind of what they call up in the zone a little bit. I kept the ball, ⁓ know, like from the thigh to about the stomach, you know, I kept, and I got a lot of foul balls and gains cause that's my ball would stay flat and kind of go up a little bit. Cause I threw the ball like I did when I threw it from the outfield, which was a foreseen ball like this, I'd always pull the seam to get that rotation. So that's how I threw it. tried throwing a two seamer a little bit, which ⁓ people throw it this way, with seams like this, and you can just move your thumb under it like this to get it to move. Some people threw two seamers or throw them like this some. I couldn't throw this pitch ⁓ as as I could throw my four seamer. And the only time in a game, and this is getting back to me telling you I was getting beat, I threw a two seamer in Chattanooga. to a guy named Mark Neufeld that made the big leagues as an outfielder for the Mariners and he hit one about 450 feet on me. And I was like, I ain't never doing that again, ever in a ball game. I told my catcher, John Fuller, said, Fuller, don't never call another one because I ain't going to throw it, man. I said, if I'm going throw a fastball, I'm throwing a force seamer about 94 miles an hour and they're going to hit it because they ain't going to hit this one at 88 or something. I said, it ain't happening no more. Ain't doing it, And then that was a fast ball. My second pitch was a curve ball, which I threw this way along with the horseshoe like this. And I always threw it like I it. I turned my, I turned my hand open a little bit this way to throw it, to have it more like a sweeper. Like a, if you're on a clock, probably like two to eight or something. I could control that a little bit more for a strike pitch when I wanted to throw it for a strike. Then when I wanted to throw it for a strike out or to a left-hander, then I'd go over the top with it like this, what they used to call old drop ball. I'd throw it that way. It would come in and go straight down instead of across. I'd throw it this way. I'd go straight over the top, push my thumb right over the top of the ball and pull down. That was my two different ways I threw my curve ball. And then I threw a slider, which a lot of people will throw with the bell this way some and go over the ball and cut it that way ⁓ get it move, or they can throw it on the inside that way and get it to cut and move. Never had a really good change up. I tried over the course of my career to, I could throw a split finger. Okay. a split finger, I could throw a little bit, but straight changes, I never could really get the hang of throwing pitch for some reason. I don't know, it just never felt good in my hand no matter how I held it. ⁓ I worked on it one year in instructional league in 92 after we won the league champion on 91 91. Yeah, after a second year of pitching, I went to instructional league and there again I was pitching against the Japanese team in instructional league and. I threw a really good change up to this left handed hitter. He swung and missed it by like three feet. I was like, that's pretty good, you know. And then sure enough, I tried to throw it again, bam, hits it up the middle. I'm like, why? I mean, why did I do that? You know, I mean, just run it right on by, you know, or whatever. And just, ⁓ just one of those things. I mean, it's just, can never really, didn't have a lot of confidence in throwing that pitch. You know, if I, if I had to throw a change up in a situation, I always choke my curve ball a little bit and slow my curve ball down some. And that's what I use basically as a change up, that or a split finger. I tried, I just couldn't, I just could never get the hang of it. just, nothing ever felt good in my hand. just, you know, and I, you know, and I'd ask, you know, that's one of those things too. You know, I'd ask, you know, when I first started pitching, like, how do you hold this? How do you hold that? How do you hold this? How do you hold that? I mean, I just never, never, I mean, and I, I'd ask pitchers, some of the ones that had really good changeups too. mean that, Couple guys I played with, Tim Pugh that made the big leagues. threw like what he called a slip pitch when he was at Oklahoma State. I that for a little bit. Trevor Hoffman, tried, asked him a couple times ⁓ and see he threw his change up. And I just never could get the hang of it. I just couldn't do it. Yeah, I played with him for a couple years in 90. Actually, he was a converted player. He was a shortstop. Yeah, on our team, we won the league championship in 90 in the South Atlantic League and he's our shortstop. And then they converted him into a pitcher. And after that, history, ⁓ heck, second all time closer. that guy, that guy's a, ⁓ a big person, man. I'll tell you. And he, he, he worked, are you talking about something to do work now? That guy worked hard. ⁓ he, was a hard worker. And, and one thing, one thing that, that really, that a lot of people like in sports ⁓ you would know this too, since she was 10, being and your range of motion and, ⁓ and stuff, how much that plays into how free and easy your body works when you're playing, having that flexibility and range of motion and the strength in it. Trevor was like, yeah, I mean, he could sit out there. I mean, he could do splits and just touch his toes. he was flexible as a day is long, man. And he just played into role as a pitcher because that range of motion he had and flexibility, shoot. And that ball just came out of his hand easy and just, boop. a real good guy. I like Trevor. He's real good guy. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, how ⁓ game has kind of changed and evolved over the years. ⁓ chases velocity now. ⁓ it's just pitching. Pitching's kind of become, I ain't saying a lost art, I mean, it's, I guess the metrics of pitching, the metrics of things now. mean, pitching is, on down the list a little bit. mean, if you're not throwing in the mid upper nineties, I mean. I mean, most things ain't gonna give you a chance anyhow nowadays. and it doesn't matter whether you can hit the backstop with it or if you can hit the mitt, if you can throw hard because that's one thing that, know, one of those things they tell you is that you can't teach velocity. Either you got it or you don't. You know, you can't teach 97. So they find guys that can throw hard. And then they figure, well, we can teach them how to pitch or we can teach them how to throw strikes stuff. And I'm here to tell you, ⁓ you can't throw strikes, you ain't never gonna throw strikes. That's thing ⁓ that learned too along the way, is there's difference in being a strike thrower ⁓ and being to throw strikes. There ain't guys like Maddox and Glavin and some of those guys, those are strike throwers. mean, ⁓ do strikes all the time. ⁓ then you see guys that's kind of what they call effectively wild. ⁓ what most pitchers are effectively wild. ⁓ yeah. Hey man, we had a pitcher that got drafted out of here the same year Charlie got drafted out of high school. A guy named Jeremy Horst who was a left handed pitcher got drafted by the Reds. Chapman was in triple-a I guess when we that one night where he threw like a hundred and four point five or whatever it was in a triple-a game Caught up Horst. ⁓ was like, ⁓ course man. I said I said he really don't bought it hard He he said Calvin every bit of it if not more. He said man. He said that thing he said He said he was warming up in the pen that night. He said gosh Calvin. He said that ball He said you hardly see it man He said it was just, I was just sitting there watching going, holy smokes, man. And he said he got in the game, he threw that ball and that number popped up there on the radar screen and everybody was like, holy smokes. He said there was every bit of it too, man. said that thing was moving. He said it was moving, man. I was like, man, I bet that was something, man. He goes, when that guy warmed up in the pen, he said it was different. It is different. You know, that's hard. mean, a lot of people don't understand the taller that you get as a pitcher with all those moving parts, they all have to work perfectly. You know, by the time you break your hands and you stride and you land, I mean, everything's got to be right there for you to be a consistent strike thrower and guys like him and like, she'll out. That's those tall pitchers that are strike throwers. Shoot, man, that's phenomenal, man. You don't know the ability that those guys have to be able to consistently in a right position to throw a pitch and it'd be a strike all the time. That's hard. mean, guys that are like six foot, ⁓ not as much moving parts and they can repeat their delivery a little bit easier and better because ⁓ not, but when you start getting up there in six threes, fours, fives, and sixes, ⁓ I mean, it's a little bit tougher. And I think that's part of when I was talking about strike throwers. It makes it tougher when you get that size to repeat that delivery constantly and consistently to be a strike thrower. mean, but it's hard. Those guys that can do it, you got to give them credit, man. That's not an easy task. Mm-hmm. You know... Back when I was playing, I hate to revert to that saying, it was, always myself, I didn't have a lot of people to train with per se when was playing. I was married and during the off season, I'd in Savannah and help coach Roberts. I'd help coach the college team. I went into spring training. ⁓ he would allow me to come out and throw bullpens and stuff like that. I didn't really have, I had do all my training before I would help at practice with him. So I mean, I had to do all my stuff ahead of time. But I had always myself four weeks or five weeks downtime when I got through playing so my body could just rest. and kind of repair itself and catch a breath heal. And ⁓ next would be ⁓ I would my weight training. I wouldn't throw I'd just do my weight training. I'd ⁓ try and get muscles bigger and stronger, getting ready to go spring training. And then I'd actually start throwing. Somewhere around the first of I'd start throwing. Uh, cause that, would give me roughly two months, a long toss bullpens, you know, and that type of throwing to get geared up for spring training. So we didn't go till first of March. Uh, so my, my training was a little bit different than what some people, you know, I don't know how other people did, but it seemed to work for me. Um, Some people wait till January, which is way too late for me. didn't want to have to rush my throw in to get in shape go to spring training. Because when I went to spring training, I to make sure my arm was in maybe not shape, but was close to being game shape when I went into spring training. Because ⁓ when I went spring training, I wanted to make sure I was close enough to where I'm making a team. You know, I didn't want to have to work towards my arm getting better, you know, and stuff and then trying to make a club. want to make sure my arm was ready so I can impress the coaches and all. Hey, you know, he's coming into camp ready. He wants to make a club ⁓ they remember stuff like that. You know, I mean that, that impresses those guys when ⁓ come into camp ⁓ ⁓ play. It ain't like back in the day when you played yourself in shape. Today's ain't like it no more. You got to be ready. ⁓ you know when you get there, you know and that's what I wanted to make sure I was so I always and I liked I Like training by myself because that way I just had to worry about myself I didn't have to worry about somebody being late or calling and not making it or you know Whatever, but days when I'd long toss or whatever. I mean, I just I'd get a bucket of balls I'd go out and throw them up into the back back back stop Go pick them up. back throw some more But I made sure that I was doing what I wanted to do and what I thought I needed to do to get ready. I didn't have to worry about somebody else or relying on somebody else. Now lifting weights was a little different. If I could find somebody to lift with me, then I would. But if I couldn't, that's okay. I mean, there was no sweat off me. I was a pretty self-motivated person on my own. I didn't need somebody to motivate me. You know, right towards the end, my shoulder started kind of giving out on me a little bit. And that's what eventually got me out of the game, is that my shoulder, I and I really got it looked at. I mean. Because old saying was, if you're not a prospect, you're a suspect. And I was always a suspect. I always had to make people think that I I wanted to show them I was a prospect, because I was always labeled as a suspect because I wasn't a high pick or one of their people or whatever. I always had to prove myself. And I wasn't in a position, well, I didn't feel like I was in a position to. I hey man, I need to get my shoulder looked at because I think something's Cuz then they go shoot, man, you're dime a dozen, man. I just, in season I try and work it and ⁓ keep strong as what I could get me through the season and stuff. And eventually my velocity started going down. I got to where I was about. consistently 89-90 instead of 90-93-94, top of 95 or so. Once I got down into that range, it made it a lot tougher for me being 5'11". 5'11", you're throwing in the low 90s is a lot different than 5'11", throwing in 88-90. Makes a big difference. At that point, It was a hard decision for me to make cuz I was like, gosh man, I was so close. I mean, I was just so close. say that ⁓ just, man, time for me to walk away. And ⁓ was to do, but you know what? I gave it I had and just for whatever reason. ⁓ This wasn't what meant to happen, I mean, just, and I don't have any regrets about it. Coach Roberts at the time, he was looking for another coach, pitching guy. And he said, hey, Calvin, he said, I know you're about, and he knew I was getting close. He said, He said, if you're fixing to do it, then we got a job here if you want it. And my wife, Pamela, was working at the university and all. And I was like, I've done everything I could do. mean, my arm's not coming back. I knew that, even though I wanted to try and keep doing it. Everybody knows when it's time. You just know. You don't ever want to admit it, but you know. And it was so I said, you know what? I gave it my best and I it lot further than a lot of people ever did. ⁓ I got chance to throw in AAA and I got pitch against big league guys and. ⁓ Winter ball down in Puerto Rico, I got to pitch there one winter and was awesome. A bunch of big leaguers down and get to play with big leaguers and pitch against big leaguers and I The one thing I can say is I know if I would have ever got up to the big leagues, I would been able to hold my own because I did it when I was in winter ball down in Puerto Rico playing. I made the. I threw really well down there. I had like a three year and run average, maybe a little below during my time down there. against all big league guys ⁓ guys that are considered their prospects are gonna be in the big leagues. And I like if I ever had that chance, I would have been okay. But this what is. And then I had a- I no regrets about it. ⁓ Yeah. You know, I'd probably say... I don't know if I would have told my younger self to do anything different. know, I know, ⁓ being and truthful with myself, would I ever made the big leagues as a hitter? Probably not. ⁓ I thankful that I got a chance to get, I mean, because I got my foot in the door in professional ball, because I did well in college as a hitter. In the first year, mean, and everybody thinks they can. mean, it don't matter. All pitchers, I mean, you look at everybody, they'll tell you, yeah, I'm a great hitter. You know what I did? a lot different when you're facing those type of guys pitching. It's a lot different. don't know if I'd ever made it as a hitter, but it gave me the opportunity to that I had a chance maybe as a pitcher because I was blessed with having a good arm. And I said, well, you know what? that's, I the chance to do this as a to show myself I needed to pitch. And I don't if I would have wasted, ⁓ if I would just started as a pitcher, if it had made a difference. I don't know, but gave me the opportunity show myself ⁓ I at least got the to do it. Hey. ⁓ Let's do what probably I should have done from the start. But I don't think I would have told my younger self to go the other way though. I don't think I would have. would said, just go ahead and do that, man. I mean, you worked hard at that. And if it don't work, it don't work. But heck, you least got to give yourself the chance because that's what you worked for. maybe like, take a little better care of your shoulder, maybe. I don't know. I I always took for granted that, cause you know, even high school and then my younger days when I was pitching, you know, my arm would bother me some, but I'd still go out there and pitch. mean, I didn't, you know, I didn't think nothing about it. hey, I'm, you know, I'm young. I'm just, it's going to hold up. You know, I didn't think nothing about it. You know, maybe as I switched over, maybe take a little better care of it, maybe, but. I thought I did a pretty good job. It's just, mean, any pitcher, any player, I mean, you can hurt your arm just going out there playing catch. I mean, you don't, don't never know. I mean, you can just slip your foot slips, you know, when it's wet or something other and the ball comes out wrong. mean, just don't never know. mean, it's just the luck of the draw that you stay healthy for that long of a time, a Nolan Ryan or somebody. mean, that's just a freak. I mean, people go out there and just throw a pitch and just come out, slip, and there you are. you blow out your elbow, your shoulder. ⁓ You don't never know. That's why when people about all these players making so much money and this and that, I say, well, their careers could just like that. mean, they got to their money when they can make their money because you don't never know that's getting taken away. So you go to a job every day I mean you know it doesn't matter if you get hurt. I mean, could you still go to work? mean, those guys, they get hurt. They can't work. I mean, that's, and then their careers over. So I mean, they got a shorter, they got a shorter window to make money. And, I ⁓ I begrudge anybody. It makes that kind of mommy, man. They're going to give it, give it to me. I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah, mean that's, I that, know, I've always been a, I just ⁓ me you know, I did coming in, you know, high school and, and, behind the growing and all, ⁓ I mean, it, it, the, the, the different athletic movements that you do for different positions and, you know, I think it, it, helps train your body to do things. You know, instead of just focusing just on one thing, I mean, it's like, know, play different sports because all that stuff, all the athleticism and skills that you learn in different sports, it your body so much to be able to do that. I mean, I don't why you just want to lock yourself into just one thing. mean, unless you're just not any good as a hitter. I mean, if you're just not any good, then I get it. Okay, that's fine. I mean, Can you play basketball? Can you shoot basketball? Shoot basketball. I think a lot of today's injuries and stuff that revolved around, and this is just my opinion. mean, ain't nobody emailing or calling me asking what Calvin Culberson thinks about all the injuries in baseball nowadays. But I just think a lot of it has to do with. They don't take enough downtime when they need it. Because if you're not playing, if you're not doing something, then you're getting left behind. That's the viewpoint nowadays. Well, if I'm not out there playing, if I'm not out there doing it, know, colleges ain't seeing me. You know, pros ain't, they ain't seeing me. They play a hundred games. When's your body resting? When's your arm resting? You know, I mean, only got so many bullets in there to use or, you know, throws. I mean, that's all you got. You know, so use wisely. You know, I mean, your body needs to rest. Your body needs to rest. I mean, that's just my opinion. I mean, I just think everybody should at ⁓ downtime so that their body can heal and recover, you know, and ⁓ wait, train some and build up and then start throwing again later. I mean, you ain't got to do it 365. I I think that to a lot more of the injuries than some people think, but ⁓ that's my opinion. I'm not a big fan of the to run on second base and extra in games, but that's just not baseball. ⁓ know they do it. I understand why. It's ⁓ I'm just more of a purist. like this guy and I don't like, don't like the fact that in blowout games or something, they throw position players and stuff like that. You know, I mean, I I don't, ⁓ a big fan of that either. I mean, you got somebody, if you don't have somebody that in that bullpen, it can go out there and pitch. Then something's wrong. know, you, you're, you're number eight guy that bullpen. That That's the time that those guys get a chance to go out pitch. I mean, you're not putting your ninth guy in the bullpen in a three to two ball game in eighth inning. Not until they've shown you that they can handle that situation. In a 10 to one game, run them out there and say, right, go out there and get some outs and show me that you're ready to get into a game when it matters. I mean, they got guys in the bullpen that can go out there and pitch and get outs. we got to save them because you know what? That for one, that's your job. ⁓ in the big leagues. Go get somebody out. That's something that kind of irritates me is. They shouldn't throw position players in games. mean, to me, that kind of ⁓ a joke out of it. I don't care for that. mean, I'm a big fan of that. ⁓ Well, yeah, I I like to see Charlie out there pitching. But if you notice, when he went out pitching those games, he went out there and pitch. He didn't go out there and throw 60 miles an hour over the plate. He was being competitive. Now, if you're to a position guy out there and they're going to be competitive and they're going to come after people and get them. OK, that's a little bit different than going out there and going, oh. Here it is at 50 miles an hour. mean, had a good arm. mean, Charlie could run that ball in there. And he had that competitive streak. He didn't want to give up nothing. mean, I don't mind. Now, if you got a position player that you can put out there that can do that. Okay, I can take that but not just go out there and lob it over the plate and people are laughing and that just irritates me when they're out there laughing and doing stuff like that. It's like, come on, man. This is baseball. Be competitive. It is here there, but that's the way the game is nowadays. That's just the way the game's evolved over the years and that's okay. I mean, you just learn to live with it and smile and hey man, I still watch some here and there. Okay. Well, I mean, that I saw play or just overall? Never seen on play or whatever, probably Babe Ruth since he's the guy that everybody compares yourself to. Yankees. I've always been a Yankee fan over all the years except I mean, even when George was screwing them up all the time by buying all them All-Stars, you know, it just, the one thing he showed you though is that he wanted to win and that's what you want as an owner. a player, you want somebody that shows you they want to win and that guy wanted to win. Mmm. Oh, well, I did face Kevin Brown in college at Georgia Tech. That was tough, man. That was a tough go right there, man. Woo! You remember David Ivester that played at Darlington? He played up at Tech, but I don't think he caught that game, though. I think it was the next year when I played him. I remember facing Kevin Brown, it was a night game up there at Tech. He threw an inside fastball to me. didn't even see it. I just heard he hit the mitt and I looked back to see where it was. And I was like, that's not good. You gotta be able to pick that ball up, man. ⁓ was like, and it was an inside fastball with his two seamers? Man, was a tough go for me that night. ⁓ yeah, I'm telling you that ball came out in a hurry man. Yeah, yeah, I mean I I had coach Hodges and coach Bobo and they they asked me several different times when I was in weight weight training class up there to Why didn't come out and play and whatever and I was like, you know, I mean if thought I could get on the field and play every day maybe but I'm not going out there and being no blocking dummy for nobody. I'm not getting beat up for no reason to stand on the sideline, man. I mean, just, we had a stacked team. Plus my daddy wasn't real fired up about me going out and playing either. that was part of it too, daddy. My daddy, he wasn't a big fan of me doing that either. you know, they said something about me, you know, hi Jessica, man, you'd make a good fullback here Culverston. I said, yeah, that's okay. I said, I do all right throwing a baseball too. So I'll just stick to that. College would probably be... teammate. years. ⁓ played with a guy named Mike Mitchner that played with me. Probably him, probably my favorite teammate, probably Mike Mitchner. He ended up getting drafted in the third round by the White Sox, the year I got drafted. I would say probably my favorite, probably him. And then professionally would be, whew. I played with a lot of good guys, man. tell you somebody was a good guy. Dan Wilson, guy that caught for the Mariners, that's their manager now. He was my roommate in 90 when he got drafted by the Reds. He was my roommate for the last month and the months of the season. And then in Puerto Rico in 93, he was our catcher. He was a really good guy. I mean, he's a top-notch guy. Yeah. Yeah, he's a real, he's, but I mean, you know, he's just, wouldn't have known that he was a first rounder. He was just a nice guy and just went about his business and, you know, fun to be around and, you know, and he, he seeing other people have success. You know, he was, he liked other people having success and. remember one of the games I pitched down in Puerto Rico and he was catching. was playing Ponce and no, ⁓ was Juan. He playing San Juan. And ⁓ he out the mound. said, ⁓ Colby, he said, He said, when I put them fingers down, he said, you throw what I put down, OK? He said, don't shake me. He I said, man, I ain't got much on my ball tonight, Danny goes, you got plenty enough. said, if I got it, he said, I put down a one. He said, you just let it ride. He said, we'll be fine. I said, okay, man, whatever you say, I'm gonna do it. And he was just like that, he's like, just go with me, we're fine, just go with me. So I liked him as a teammate. of the catchers that I had, liked as teammates, cuz they was always like that with me. You know, the one book that I read a lot, especially when I was in baseball, was that mental of baseball or whatever it's called. I it with me every year. and would read it like you were talking about earlier when I'd go through slumps start questioning like, man, am I good enough to be here still? know, I mean, I'm not doing so well, you know? there was always parts of that book I could go to and read just go, you know what? What? mean, if I wasn't good enough, I wouldn't be here. You know, they'd already sent me You know, and I really liked that book. I think it's called The Mental Game of Baseball. It's been around for a long time and I always liked that book. It always gave me some good insight. It's kind of like a lot of things. If you go and read it again, you find something else in there that you might have missed or overlooked or you know, so that and... I know people like talking, but the Bible always helped me. When you have rough times, there's always things you can go in different scriptures you can look at and get some wisdom from. Those two books, if you keep those with you and read on, you always find something different that can help you. That's kind of what I did. That was my two go-tos. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You gotta learn the dissemination from what they're telling you and from what you're seeing and understanding with your body. Dissemination from what they're saying big. I mean, being able to take bits from what they're saying and not everything, but parts of it. ⁓ Boy, tell you, it hardest game to play, man. But it's a simple, it's a kid's game. And if you keep it a kid's game, it stays kind of easy, but we always make it too hard, It's human nature, man. Make it harder than it is. Yeah, I just saw that the other night, it was on TV. I caught it, ⁓ turned it on about the time that he said that, said, you know what you do tomorrow, Brooks? Get to play baseball. I mean, that's true, man, that's true. Ha Yeah, I tell enjoyed so much. I I wouldn't change man. The people that you along the way that you become friends with. Before we hang up, mean, like ⁓ when I was coaching down I don't know, it right before we consolidated. It was probably in 2000. ⁓ 13 or something maybe I was up at you know, the game complex up there in Cartersville and into Trevor Hoffman his ⁓ son playing on one of the teams from California they were in there playing and He come walking down the sidewalk and I was walking in and He saw And I was like, hey, Trevor. goes, man, hey, Kobe, how you doing, man? And we started talking like we never lost track of each other. such a good, ⁓ he's a good dude too now, I'm telling you, man. saw me right away and knew my still, which he easily just it off and not said nothing. But ⁓ he walked up, talked for a while, and... Shoot man, he was a good guy man. I like Trevor, he's good guy. Yeah, mean, because you'll never know, man. I mean, people that you meet along the way, I mean, it's just the friendships and camaraderie you build team to team and the friends that you can make. And I always say, baseball makes the world small, makes the world small. don't know how small the world gets when you ⁓ into people that you know or somebody knows that person and they know you and makes world small. Okay. I know it.