Danielle: today's guest has a tagline on his studio's about page, small by design. Sean O'Beacháin is the founder and creative director of So Studio based in Dame Street and Dublin. He has spent years at some of the most significant agencies in Ireland and the UK. Laminarin in London, ImageNow, Creative Inc., now CI Studio, Slater Zero G. Brand Union, now true story, and Richards D and the public house. It kind of reads like a who's who of design. After this, he decided to move on though and step away from it all and build something entirely on his own. And he started So and So Studio with a design pal, and shortly after, he went solo to So Studio. The work that has come out of So Studio is extraordinary in its range, from naming to packaging, brand identity and strategy, and much more in between. What I want to talk to Sean about today is what creative confidence looks like when you are the whole creative team, how collaborative partners that he has developed feed into the projects that he works on, and what it means to choose to stay small in an industry that constantly equates scale with credibility. I had the pleasure of meeting Sean when he took part in the first bounce challenge back in 2025, and it was great to have him part of the team and on the project. So Sean, welcome to Rough Drafts. Sean O'Beachain: Hey, Danielle how's it going? Thanks for the nice intro. Danielle: No problem at all. You might start then by kind of bringing us through your beginnings and how you kinda got involved in design. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, yeah. So I guess the big thing for me was I didn't really take the traditional route into design. I have no formal training in it. It took me kind of a long time to figure out that design was what I wanted to do. I guess looking back in hindsight, there were lots of clear signs there, there was lots of evidence, but I didn't, I wasn't really able to put my finger on it at the time, I guess. I think back now when I think of my kind of childhood box bedroom and it was covered, every inch of it was covered with design related details. Like I was always collecting millions of different things. I was collecting beer mats. I was collecting matchboxes from around the world. I was collecting jokers from card packs and I had them. plastered all over my walls. So I think that was probably a fairly clear sign that I had an interest in design. That kind of moved as I got a bit older. I got into club flyers and all that kind of stuff. Unfortunately, I don't have any of those anymore. I don't know what happened to them, but I'd love to have kept hold of them. So anyway, so that's the kind of early background, but Danielle: Mm. Sean O'Beachain: I guess I always knew I wanted to do something creative, but... I was the youngest of three. My eldest sister, Dara, Dara Nivakon, she's a graphic designer as well. And part of me thought, God, I can't follow in her footsteps. You know, I have to do something a little bit different, which in that sense was Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: a bit daft. But yeah, so I knew I wanted to do something creative, but it wasn't going to be graphic design. So in my head, I sort of latched onto the idea of working in multimedia. and I wanted to study multimedia in college but at the time, this is going back to 96, there were no courses in Ireland in multimedia, none that I was aware of. So for me I kind of thought the next best thing to do would be to do computers. So I ended Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: up going to Trinity and I studied computer science. which didn't go so well. spent a year there. just didn't, know, I Trinity was great fun. We had, you know, there were lots of sad people and all that, but the actual experience, was just heavy maths, heavy programming. Wasn't for me. I left that after a year and then I... kind of as a glutton for punishment I did and went to another course in Trinity which was called ICT. It was the first year of was information and communications technology. Stuck that out for three years and then left before finishing. So I kind of came out of Trinity four years spent but nothing really gained and didn't really know what I was gonna do. But that. By that time, Ballyfirmat were offering a one year multimedia course. So I went and did that. It was based up on Dame Street and it was a good course. It was quite basic, but through that, I got a position with a startup web and a digital design company that were based on Georgia Street. So I was in there for the best part of a year, but actually... The big opportunity that arose for me there was we were sharing a building with a company called Micromedia, who are still around and they used to do all the flyer deliveries when there were still flyers, but they would drop the flyers around to all the shops and cafes and bars and all that. And I kind of struck up a friendship with one of the guys in there and through that, I started getting sort of freelance gigs doing club flyers. So I loved that. was just, I guess at the time I didn't realize how lucky I was, you know, I was getting to do design without the experience but in an area that I was particularly interested in and it was a real buzz and thrill going out to clubs like The Kitchen or The Temple Theatre and seeing your work up on the walls. So that was kind of a big kind of point for me and I guess through doing that I managed to cobble together a bit of a portfolio. You know, the portfolio was, you I'd love to go back and was mostly flyers. And that was all kind of going well. I didn't last long in the web studio, but I kept doing flyers. then actually my sister, Dara, was working in Red Dog at the time. And she had a word with Mary, and Mary kindly gave me a short placement. So I went in there, I think it was for about three weeks. it was the first time I'd been in a proper design studio. seen the ins and outs, you know, and I loved it. It was great. It was brilliant. And then after that, again, my sister Dara, so she was very instrumental in me getting these opportunities, but she would have been good pals with Scott Burnett. of AID and WoE, but Scott was in ImageNow at the time. she had a word with him. He set up a meeting with myself and Darryl Kavanagh. We ended up going for, I think it was coffee and Eddie Rockets on Camden Street and chatting. And ultimately Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: Darryl offered me a position as a runner. So basically it was a, I don't know if the position really exists anymore or that kind of opportunity exists anymore, but it was really just a... coming in and doing all kinds of jobs. I was in there emptying bins and doing all odd jobs. But at the same time, they were great. I was sitting in on meetings. I was getting to see how things were happening. I was getting a chance to work on projects, but in a very low pressure capacity. They were letting me take part, but ultimately the responsibility wasn't resting on my head. So I was lucky in there, was Aidan Grinnell, who the creative director and the two of us really struck it off. We just clicked straight away, we kind of had a shared sense of music and I always kind of say, looking back, that working with Aidan was my formal training, you know, before I was working with him I didn't know anything about Swiss design or... or Joseph Muller Brockman or any of that. I kind of always fondly look back at my time in Image Now. It was just good fun. was a really good team in there. There was Dave Torpy who's still there. was Johnny Kelly who's gone on to great things. Wayne Daley, Sinead McDevitt, Maria Hynes. They were all really talented designers but everyone was young and there was a lot of fun. And Daryl was really kind of supportive of me. So yeah, so that I was I was in there for the best part to two years. I kind of I felt I sort of pushed my way up from being a runner to being more of a junior. I guess when you go in at that level in a studio like that, you kind of reach a ceiling, or I felt that you reach a ceiling. So I kind of started to eye up the next move, you know, and actually I ended up meeting someone in London on a weekend over and we sort of had a relationship back and forth for the best part of the year. And I finally just bit the bullet and moved over to London. So London was the sort of opportunity for me to, I guess, step up a little bit more. pitch myself more as a junior to mid-level designer. So that was kind of the beginning of the proper career, I think. that was, yeah, that was the beginning of the proper career. So at the time I went over without a plan. I didn't have anything lined up. So I kind of took the first job that I got offered and that was working in-house with a well-known high street fashion brand, which was interesting. It was working on everything from window displays to branding buttons, to working on T-shirt designs, to working on point of sale. Yeah, all that kind of stuff, everything that sort of came with a Fashion Brand that had a high street presence. But it wasn't for me. I didn't last very long. I was in there for about three months. The culture was just, yeah, I just didn't fit with it, you know. So I left that and then luckily got a job with a really nice studio called Identity, who were based just off Oxford Circus. So I was in there for the best part, two years. And that was a great experience. They were lovely guys. hadn't heard of them before and I guess you know when you hear of all the well-known agencies they're not as well known but they work with amazing brands we worked with a lot of sort of premium brands like Bonhams Auctioneers who deal with fine art and modern art and car sales they do you know really high-end cars that kind of stuff we also worked with Academy of Arts, some of their exhibitions, were Aston Martin was another good one. you they were all of a very certain level. And then we did a lot of property projects. So actually quite a few of the projects were sort of working on developments that were designed by Norman Foster. So they were all of a kind of high standard. And I really enjoyed it, but. Again, after two years, I think I just got itchy feet. It's kind of a common theme. I stay in places for about two years and then I tend to move on. So I left that and I went freelance again, but I had a plan. And one of the first gigs I got was going into Lambie Nairn. to work on an iconography project for O2. was kind of a, it was a three day booking that turned into essentially two years of working in there. So I was never full time in there, but I was in and out for the best part of two years. And yeah, and again, that was great and a very different experience because they were, you know, they were part of WPP at the time, huge business, you know, I'd never worked in a studio with so many people in there. were. you know, because of the size of the projects you could find yourself working on something quite small for a long time, you know, which was interesting as well. You know, I guess different studios work different ways and the larger the studio, the larger the project, the more, you know, the more the team can be divided down to specific tasks, you know, so that was, that was a great experience and I met nice guys in there. worked, aside from O2, we were working with Sainsbury's, BBC was a big client of theirs, so we worked on little bits of that, know, small enough capacity. But again, what was really interesting there was they did a lot of motion. Up to that point, motion wasn't really a thing that was on my radar, but they would have done all the idents for BBC2, like the remote control too. I guess the background of Lambie Nairn, what they were most famous for at the time was the Channel 4 branding, the original Channel 4 branding. So Martin Lambie Nairn would have designed that. Now he, in Lambie Nairn, he was still there, but he was more kind of, my understanding was after WPP took them over, he was more of a figurehead. So he was kind of... He was coming around checking what was on your screen and just chatting with everyone and it was lovely to sort of get to know him and get to meet him, you know, so. Then I, yeah, after Lambie Nairne spent some time with different studios, a little bit of time in ad studios. I always felt more comfortable in design. And ultimately after sort of six or seven years in London, the two of us, myself and my partner, we... kind of got fed up with it. Karen, my wife, is from Glasgow, I'm from Dublin. We didn't know which one we wanted to go to and ultimately we ended up back in Dublin. So that was that. And again, back to not having a plan. I reached out to the guys in Dynamo and Richard Seabrook was in there as creative director at the time. So he got me in for a chat. I ended up coming in to cover someone's mat leave and then stayed there for... two years. yeah, Danielle: Two year itch. Sean O'Beachain: the condensed seven year itch. So yeah, and again, the time, you know, in Dynamo was brilliant, you know, such a nice team. And I think it's a real testament somewhere like Dynamo that, you know, there's a lot of designers who have been in there their entire career, you know, they're just Danielle: Mm. Sean O'Beachain: some of the guys that I was working with, that they're still there. that can only be a good thing. It can only say good things about a studio. So Richard was there. Richard was kind of coming to the end of his time in there. He had set up Offset with Bren B and there was three of them. he set up Offset and then so he ended up leaving. And that was also around the time that my My first son arrived, so I kind of wanted to free up some time and be a bit more flexible so that coincided with two years, so I ended up leaving. to go freelance, I ended up doing a little bit of work with Richard on Offset and that's when I got a real taste of the Dublin design community. kind of worked with, like you were saying at the start, I worked with Creative Ink, was amazing because I always looked up to them. I worked with Zero G a couple of times, a couple of long stints and it was great work with Ciaran there and learning quite a focused discipline. Slater were amazing. I guess of all them, the one that I kind of spent the most time in was Brand Union, who ultimately became True Story. But Brand Union kind of were a huge global entity, you know, with their office in Dublin wasn't quite as big a setup, but you know, we were exposed to some pretty big clients. So all of that was great experience. I guess kind of when it came to the end of that, I don't know how many years I did that for, I kind of felt, I think this time it was a little bit more than that, but I think only because Danielle: Was it two? Sean O'Beachain: I was jumping around. But I definitely got to a point where I think freelancing has changed a little bit now, but freelancing then was a last resort for studios. You were taken in if they were under crazy pressure, and you were coming in kind of firefighting. You know, there was definitely an element of that, but I... You know, which is fine, but I guess I found out for a few years, I was just getting a little bit tired of kind of not being around to see projects out. You know, you'd have these lovely ideas, or you'd come in halfway through a project where you didn't have as much ownership on it, that kind of thing. I suppose over time, I built the relationships with some of the studios where they brought you in because of your set of skills, you know, but there was a bit of that too. I kind of felt, look, I can't keep doing this. have a young family, I can't see myself going back full time into a studio. So I almost think my hand was forced a little bit to set up on my own. So that's kind of where So&So came about. So initially I tried, I was also kind of, I guess lucky that I met very supportive people along the way. One of the last places that I freelanced with was with the Public House, the ad and Design Studio, but our agency. And they were only setting up at the time, but Colin there, you know, again, I hit it off with him and as they moved from office to office, he always offered me a desk space. So I always kind of, even though I was on my own, I was always around people in, if that makes sense. And yeah, so, so, so yeah, set up a studio and then I guess I was sort of trying to balance freelancing for studios and doing my own projects, but I found it too hard. kind of... couldn't be available for my own clients if I had committed to freelancing. So I had to kind cut the cord. And guess I was lucky being able to do that because there was two of us at home. One had a steady job and I kind of had that security to be able to take a bit of a risk. So I set up so and so. Shortly after setting it up, an old design pal of mine, Clara Fitzgerald, we'd met for a coffee, ended up kind of, guess deciding we'd team up. So we partnered and we were together for about three or four years and we just, I think it went really well. We did loads of really nice work. We've got opportunities to work on really interesting projects. We did the branding for the UX Design Institute, which was a great one. mostly online learning. That in turn ended up leading to loads of kind of online learning type projects. So it was a good one. A lot of the people share similar board members, so your name gets passed around. So we did that. We worked on my first packaging job, because my background isn't really in packaging. guess it was primarily branding. But we developed a brand for set of essential oils called the nature of things with Benoit who's a French guy who had spent years living in New York and had moved back to Dublin. So we got to design the brand on that and a whole range of packaging and I just, there was something about working on packaging that I loved. just, it was reconnecting with print. I guess there was less and less print over the years. So much design is digital, it's online. and just getting to work with something physical and spec nice files and finishes and choose paper stocks. I just really enjoyed it. So that was the beginning of that kind of path for me. We did other stuff. We shared our office with a record label called Faction and one of their artists was All Tvvins So through them, we got to do a whole series of album and single covers, working with Miles Shelley, who was a brilliant photographer. So it was very varied and it was going really well. We I guess we were about three, four years doing that and we kind of built up, I think over a short time we built up a decent reputation. But ultimately we had, you know, I guess different aspirations and different interests and maybe different ways of working. And Clara was really interested in pursuing performing and acting. So yeah, at the end of 2019, we decided to go our own way. So we parted company and it was kind of back to the drawing board. I knew I wanted to keep designing. And like I said, I had kind of struck up a... friendship with Richard Seabrook and by that time he had set up Tenth Man and I had sort met him for a coffee and you know he was great at, it's always great I think reaching out to you know your contacts and just having a coffee with no pressure and just chatting to them about things but ultimately he offered me a desk space in Tenth Man while I was getting set up. and I even used them for Benson, kind of naming ideas for the new studio, because that's quite a hard one. ultimately we landed on So Studio and that was the beginning of it. So in 2020, launched So Studio out of a spare desk in the Tenth Man up on Camden Street and things took off and they were going really well. I was working with some of the older clients. I was working with the Gate Theatre. Things were kind of... Yeah, things were kind of exciting. And then COVID came. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Sean O'Beachain: COVID just sort of pulled the wind out of everyone's sails, I guess. And particularly, like as I was building that relationship with The Gate, know, live performances, that all stopped overnight, you know. So, yeah, so it just dropped off and it went quiet. So that was kind of, that brought me up to 2020. Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: That's kind of a snapshot of my career. So well up and down. Danielle: I think I i it's incredible. It's actually like it's like you should plot the timeline because like the people that you encountered along the way are like the best of the best, you know. You had like mentorship from like Richard Seabrook, you had Aidan, you had Daryl, you know, all these people along the way. So I think you you owe your sister your sister so much, you know, she really Sean O'Beachain: No. Danielle: puts you in touch and Scott and and and you know, everyone else that you mentioned, like you know, it really did I suppose kind of steer you in a in a direction. And just as a total aside, and I I I I I didn't realise you had designed so many club flyers, people ask me what this is beside me. This is a two-meter framed framed picture of club flyers from the nineties. So I knew I bet Sean O'Beachain: Already I wonder if any mine are there right Danielle: Your work is in here. I c I collected them as well and then I had a shoebox of them and I like, What to do with them? They're too beautiful to do Sean O'Beachain: I know. Danielle: to to hide. So I I put them in this big huge frame. But anyway, that's a toe. Sean O'Beachain: I've done the same with all my concert tickets, but I had thousands. Honestly, I spent all weekends walking around to the jean shops in Temple Bar collecting flyers. I had them all up on my wall and I Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: don't know what happened. think there was an overnight clear out where my parents took Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: everything down and they got dumped. There was a book came out there recently of clothes and wires, yeah, but Danielle: Yes. Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: it stopped just before I started. Danielle: Okay. Sean O'Beachain: I know if I got the picture in that. Well, I didn't get the picture in it, but maybe in the next one. Yeah. Danielle: But it's it's interesting you're like you're you had this kind of confidence, you know, to while you say you kinda didn't have this formal training, but you also just moved when you weren't when you knew the fit wasn't right. Do you know what I mean? Like that's actually takes quite a lot of confidence to kind of say, mm, this isn't really working for me. I think I'm gonna go. I think I you know, and I know that kind of that like moving around is maybe is is quite a scary idea for a lot of people, you know, and some people I think might like feel like, I'll just stick this out for a certain amount of time and see how it goes. But I wonder, do you think is it is is that type of background, that type of flexibility to kind of jump continuously still something that is available to people now or i you know is that kind of idea a little bit harder to come by? Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, I guess in preparation for this I was kind of thinking about that and I think, well I think number one there were opportunities that I had that don't exist now and I don't think it was all being lucky but I think you look at internships and there's so much competition for internships now and they're generally, people have come straight out of college, this opportunity I've got with Image Now. I'm not sure that's there anymore. I don't know. I don't know what I think about people moving or chopping and changing. I kind of get it until you're sort of settled, then that's kind of okay. I think moving around is fine. I guess if you're seeing. three or six months since lots of those then maybe it's a little bit of a red flag but I think two years or even a year at a place can be okay because I think it's important to find a place that works for you because ultimately design is, we're lucky because it's something that we take quite personally and it's... sort of calling, but it's something we're lucky to be able to enjoy, you know, so I think you have to enjoy the environment you're in doing it, know, so moving around, Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: don't think it's such a big deal. Danielle: No. And I think like so you know, there's a you know, there's a huge amount of learning on the job for anyone, regardless if they're coming through college or not. do you think you would have gotten to the point of setting up So Studio if you maybe had have gone through like a formal, you know, design course, four years, all that kind of stuff? Do you think you still would have ended up being an entrepreneur setting up So studio wanting to work for yourself, do you think it was always in you to kinda get get to that point? Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, I think it probably was. I I spent a long time thinking, should I go back to college? And then thinking, Danielle: U Sean O'Beachain: god, I'm too old to go back. And at the time, I wasn't too old. hindsight's a great thing. I guess I've always sort of drifted a little bit here. But I've always felt that not going to college, you miss that opportunity for risk-free experimentation and to be amongst people who are like-minded, that kind of thing. But I think I probably was always destined to do my own thing. I think that's my personality. Use the word entrepreneur. I don't see myself as an entrepreneur. I see myself as a graphic designer who works for himself. And maybe, yes, the definition of entrepreneur is spotting opportunities or whatever it is. But yeah, maybe I was always destined to do it. I mean, right from the start, I was doing my own, working on my own projects. I'm always struck by how confident I was back then, but it's maybe the arrogance or ignorance, know, it kind of, I had no problem going into a room full of suits and showing my work. it's funny, I always felt that London, kind of, when I was in London, I came back after London, a more confident designer, Danielle: Mm. Sean O'Beachain: but possibly a less confident presenter. And I don't know. what that is, you know, because I definitely went over being confident, you know, but, you know, I think over time you sort of, you develop that and I think as you work for yourself, you have no choice but to, you know, to build your sort of one-to-one skills with people and that kind of thing. But yeah, was I always going to set up my own thing perhaps? Yeah. Yeah. Danielle: 'Cause it's not for the faint hearted, you know, it's the kind of you know, you're you're meeting the clients, you're getting the work, you're doing the work, and then you're trying to invoice for the work as well. So it's kinda is that jack of all trades kinda idea really. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Danielle: it's something that a lot of I suppose a lot of freelancers are doing anyway, but they could still call themselves freelancers even though they are essentially you know, just self employed. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Yeah. All it is is like, mean, all it is is really sort of stopping to present yourself as a single person and starting to present yourself as a sort of studio. I mean, you learn all the lessons along the way, you know, of course you make mistakes and of course you ignore red flags and these Danielle: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sean O'Beachain: things. So I always found the sort of early experiences of working on flyers for clubs, you know, would that probably get me a good grounding in dealing with maybe some chancers you know, and sort of in hindsight, why did I allow that, you know, those debts to rack up, you know, when somebody was slow paying you all that kind of stuff. So I guess there was a little bit of, you know, I was a bit more prepared, you know, but it is, you know, it's still I'm doing I'm so studio now. was it six years? Yeah, six years. So you're still fine tuning and learning and learning as you go. Danielle: And do you think so that you mentioned about, you know, kind of freelancing wasn't what it is now? The kind of the almost the cultural shift in in, you know, being freelance, you know, and the kind of freelancers maybe seen as more more freedom to get it i get involved in more interesting jobs along the way where maybe, you know, if years ago when when you were freelancing, it was almost just like you were taking what was around, you know, there was a kinda total a total shift in the last few years and freelance I think the vast majority of people do operate in a freelance capacity now. Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, no, 100%. And I think the role has changed a bit and it's almost strange, like calling the people that I work freelancers, that they're not, they're collaborators, and I get them in, like I work with them, like I depend on a sort of a team of freelancers and collaborators that I've been working with since the start. project comes in I know what's right for a particular designer, know, so they are essentially the extended team, you know, so it's very much saying, right, I've got a brief for you, here it is, rather than, you know, there will be times where I need to dig out on something and I'm swamped or whatever, you know, but I think freelancers... don't know if I can speak for the wider industry, but I think for me, it's they come in and they take ownership of a project with me kind of overseeing, you know, so I think it's a, I don't know, I think it's a nicer. a nicer experience for them now than maybe it was, you know? But Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: yeah, so many people are freelancing and you know, I think it's a brilliant thing. understand the flexibility, the autonomy, the ability to sort of take time off when they want, you know, there's a lot of attractive things, I guess, as somebody running and trying to build a studio. It's hard because you're looking for full-time senior talent and people... you know, there's this nice option out there for them so they're less keen to settle down. So that's kind of a big issue we're kind of experiencing at the moment. Danielle: Okay. So let's talk about the collaborative partnerships then. How do you how do you kind of start them? How do you find the people that you need? is it word of mouth or is it just working with them? What what's kinda the background to that? Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, so it is word of mouth. I mean, there's different kinds of collaborators. mean, again, as a small studio, I've always been wary of small studios that say they can do it all, you know, so I'd rather just say, look, branding is our thing. We're not a digital agency, but if a project requires digital, we can bring someone in. So our strategy, we don't do heavy strategy. We do strategy life, I guess, as we call it. But if a project needs heavy strategy, we have people that we work with who we bring in. So there's those kind of collaborators who are... bringing in different skills and then there are the designers who mostly come through word of mouth and the nice thing about it is you get to test them out, know, so if it's not working out, know, so be it, you don't work with them again really, but I've been lucky, you know, I'd say there's about five, six people that I've been working with since day one who are just, brilliant, you know, and... David Pakenham, don't know if you know David, he's just a brilliant designer, his motion skills are amazing, he works really closely with me on loads of projects. There's, God, I'm in them all, but there's people who would be amazing for the guideline stages of projects, know, and they would come in and take a system that we had worked on and then sort of build it out. But it is mostly word of mouth, you know, and... Again, I really believe in chatting to the people within the community, know, chatting to other design studios who are going through the same thing. you know, there's none of this. Nobody's cagey. I think everyone's happy to share, you know, and sometimes when you've got a really good designer and someone asks you for a recommendation, you're almost like, God, you know, but for that person, you want to share their name and you want them to sort of... grass and be successful as well. So that's kind of that that is the kind of the thing for us, know, collaboration. That's kind of a cliche, but it's a fact for for us. And I think I was kind of touching on it with you beforehand. But for me, the irony is actually working in such a small sort of studio. I've almost forgotten how to collaborate within the studio on projects. You know what mean? Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: Because you're so small, sometimes you have to give someone a project, you know, whereas in the likes of Lambinaire, there was loads of us working on a project, you know, and I'm trying to sort of recapture that and do more of that. And for me, that's why I really want to sort of build a more permanent team, you know, where we can collaborate in studio, you know. So, Danielle: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: so yeah. Danielle: And then I suppose being able to bring in this, you know, this these people that are specialists in particular areas really kinda can can help you get those bigger bigger jobs, you know. how do you find competing for a business against maybe a studio that has a bigger headcount? like How what's your your thoughts on that? Do you think that you guys do do well or as good as the larger agencies or you know, how do you feel you compete against them? Sean O'Beachain: I don't ever feel really daunted about that. feel like I've worked in the big agencies. I know how Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: it works there and I know what goes on when they're getting ready for pitches. One of the things we say on the website is, you know, a big agency experience, small studio service, you know, and it is that. So I feel we're just as well equipped to take on the big projects. with the team of collaborators, we can scale up as required. You know, I don't think we miss deadlines. always, you know, sometimes there's times where you're swamped and you've got a lot of work on, you know, but, you know, I don't find that we work late nights or anything like that. So I think we can offer the quality of service. and actually a more personal service. I think what I love is the sort of one-to-one, know, ultimately it would be nice to get someone into the studio who can help with some of the admin, but I don't ever see myself pulling away from sort of directly being in touch with the clients because I love that, you know, and I think such a big part of what we're doing is building relationships with them so we can understand what they want to do, you know, one Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: of the day. So, yeah, I don't really feel daunted. I do think there are... skills in house that we don't have sometimes, you know, and I think sometimes, you know, while we're a small studio, we have less overheads, so we can compete kind of price wise, but then when you're relying on outside collaborators all the time, that can be expensive as well. So it's not the most, not always the most streamlined way of working, but. Yeah, guess to answer the question, don't really feel daunted. And then the more you do it, the more you feel kind of validated. We've won some big projects going up against big agencies. So that kind of reassures you a bit. Danielle: glad you mentioned that now because I want to start with the project that you won for Barry. So Barry's tea is a huge, huge client to to win for your studio. so you maybe you might talk to us a little bit about how that came about. were were you the underdog in the process, you know, and maybe like maybe Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, I think we were the wild card. Yeah. So there was, we don't tend to do many pitches. You know, we kind of win work on our credentials a lot and, you know, pricing that kind of thing. But Barry's approached us. and asked would we be interested in a paid pitch process. I thought, God, initially I thought, God, they're too big for me, you know, and maybe I'll say no. And then I had a call with Camille, who's the head of marketing on their side, and I just really liked chatting to her and I said, look, I'll do it. So I put together a big sort of pitch document. Again, I guess one of the reasons that I don't really pitch is, and I think it's a less, people do it less and less now, but. starting out, people used to do fully formed creative answers to projects and I never really got that. I mean, it's how can you answer the question without understanding the question, you know? And so I didn't want to do that in the deck, but I wanted to talk about my understanding of what Barry's was all about. You know, it's the only Irish owned tea brand. It's got a real strong family background. So it was talking about that, maybe identifying certain areas that I felt could do with a little bit of a modernisation, put this all into a deck. I focused on kind of key areas that using other brands as examples, know, people who are doing it well. I showed examples of, I guess, heritage brands that have managed to update their brand without losing that story, you know, so. I went down, I had a meeting with Camille and a few of the other senior guys in there and the presentation ended with some sketches. I said, look, here's some sketches here. These are top level but potentially some ways that you haven't thought about that maybe you could go. So I kind of won. the pitch based off that presentation. But I also, I just got a really strong feeling about the company. It's a really interesting company and I got the tour of the factory and they brought us into the warehouse where all the bags of the kind of... fresh tea have come in from all around the world and it's almost like the warehouse at the end of Indiana Jones, know, and like it's amazing and then you get told about how they blend the tea and there's a guy, Dennis, up there who's in charge of ensuring consistency of flavour and you know you really buy into it. what they're all about, you know, and there were lovely little things like moments where they all stop at, I don't know what time, 11 o'clock and the whole company has tea together, including the seniors, you know, and it's, yeah, Danielle: Really? Wow. Sean O'Beachain: it's lovely, you know, really, I just, you know, I sort of fell for it. So that was nice. And then when they awarded us the work, was, you know, it was daunting, but initially, you know, but exciting. And it was such a big one for. Fo So studio, I remember one of the guys that I work with just said, no pressure, know, it's like you're redesigning the national flag. But, you know, it was great and it went so smoothly, you know, you know, we obviously, Barry's have a lot that they would be very protective of in terms of a brand. So. You know, our process is very different depending on the client, but a big client like this, we thought, look, we need to make sure we're all on the same page. So we said we'd do an exercise where we looked at a range of designs, but concepts, know, early concepts, no more than the front of pack. And they would kind of go from a nudge to a push, you know what I mean? Sort of see what their appetite for change was. So we did a range of designs. They landed on one pretty much unanimously. Funnily enough, that that one linked quite closely back to one of the early sketches. So obviously on some kind of intuitive level, I had already started to crack it. But that was it. And we kind of jumped off at that point and really got into a process of refining. Well, the project was a brand, you know, was branding, brand refresh brand world, the wider brand world, to show, you know, to develop how they show up across comms and all of that. And then packaging. There was an urgency on getting the packaging done because ads were booked in and stuff like that. So we focused on the packaging and developed everything on the pack. with a kind of an eye on the wider picture of how are these going to be adapted to work on socials, that kind of thing. But yeah, once they picked a general design, we got into crafting it and I had sort of taken their Barry's logo wordmark and I had done a redraw of it, of pointing out ways that. I felt it could be simplified details that could be taken away without really losing the overall feel of it. When they were happy with that we got Bobby Tannum involved who's amazing. I'm not sure if it was the first project I worked with Bob Young, but we worked on quite a few projects together and that was great. And he just, he's, he's got such an eye for details. So he tidied up the word mark, recrafted little details and made it all feel a bit more considered. And we spent a lot of time figuring out what would be the valuable sort of distinctive assets for them, you know, so we developed this whole, what we call the leaves, which is the curve device. And the idea there was really to communicate the depth of flavor, depth of flavor, depth of story, know, tying into the heritage and everything that sort of makes Barry so unique. We developed an iconography style and then all these things came together to form the pack design and genuinely that process was really smooth. just sailed through. worked that across they had, so we were really focused on their black tea range which is their kind of their core range so there was within that there's gold blend which is the red pack, there's the original blend which is green, decaf blend which is blue and then they're sort of more premium offering which was master blend. So we looked at how that translated across the packs. Master Blend kind of got a bit of a different treatment because it's slightly more premium. They got their own version of the leaves and that was it. We've been working with them two and a half years now. It's been great. They're so nice to deal with. The marketing team there is Camille and Dolores and we have regular calls. You were still rolling out the brand across. you know, everything from like the catering packs, you know, to the smaller formats and all of that. But it was a really good learning experience, you know, dealing with some of the print processes that we might not have dealt with before. the printers that do a lot of the packaging for them were amazing. So I spent days in there, you know. and making sure everything was absolutely spot on. know, such a big thing for Barry's is their colour. know, even before we kind of worked on it, you know, when you go into a supermarket, they stand out on shelf because they have such prominent colour blocking, you know. So one of the things we couldn't touch was the colour, you know. So was trying to figure out how we could give a... update the design, but a compromise and sort of shelf stand out. That was something we absolutely had to get right. So we were using special microscopes to make sure that the red was exactly the red that had been done previously. So it was a lot learnt. What I was daunted with at the start was things like critical paths. I never did any of that. We never really had worked on that kind of stuff. But big learning curve, but it all went smoothly. It's nice now because we're looking at how the band then sits on things like limited edition collectors' tins and all of that. Danielle: And what do you think like having having a big client like that, what do you think that does to like your own kind of confidence in in, you know, your approach and in the studio? Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, obviously it sort of gives you more confidence. It sort of confirms that you're able to do it and you're able to take Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: on the big guys, you know. You know, I run a studio, you know, I love the small startup projects and we still will always do those, but I quickly learned you can't really build a studio on that. You know, I wasn't able to, you know, because it can be on and off, you know, depending on, you know, global current affairs, people get cagey and they don't want to set up a new business. So for me, having... I guess a client that I would see as recession proof gives you a lot of security and lot of safety and confidence as well. No, no, no, no. Danielle: Yeah. Particularly in Ireland. I d don't think tea is ever gonna go out of style. Sean O'Beachain: So I'm trying to think of the next equivalent client. yeah, know, but as a studio, it's nice to keep that balance as well. You know, it's just that sort of working with big guys like that. Danielle: Mm. Sean O'Beachain: And as long as the experience is pleasant, that's really important to me. It has to be an enjoyable Danielle: Well Sean O'Beachain: experience. Fair enough, there'll be times where you're stressed and you're thinking about something, but if you're ultimately doing it for nice people, I think that makes a big difference. Danielle: completely and it seemed like the you know you you had a very smooth you know process for for the guys and it was they were kind of easy to work with and you know what you kind of presented in your that that initial presentation even though you said you you think you came back with weaker presentations from the UK but it seemed to you know you got it Sean O'Beachain: No. Danielle: and you know you've were you were obviously the just the right fit at the right time for Baris so yeah Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Danielle: it is and and you know from the external optics, other clients looking at your studio, seeing Barries, you know, that's a real kind of I suppose market credibility for for So Studios. Sean O'Beachain: I think so and I don't think we've made the most of it in terms of a studio either yet. That's one of the things about a small studio is like this case studies, there's so much work that we're sitting on that we want to talk about. We just haven't had Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: that opportunity, you know, so you put little teasers out on social media Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: and you do little reveal videos, but actually getting to talk about the work. it takes time to do it and I just need to carve that time out and really promote it. So I feel while we did do berries and people know about it, I haven't really capitalised on it yet, if that makes sense. Danielle: totally. It's that thing, isn't it? The cobblers the cobblers kids have no shoes. Like do you know what I mean? Yeah, Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, yeah. Danielle: you kinda it's really hard to kinda you're you're telling clients that they need to kind of promote themselves and talk about all the great things they do, but you're not doing it yourself as Sean O'Beachain: No, I know. Danielle: much as as you should, because you're chasing then, you know, with a small studio, you're chasing the next thing and then, you know, and and trying to kind of, you know, get the next client in. But do you do you think that because a a lot of your work has appeared on things like the 100 Archive, a lot of your work has won awards. Do you think that provides a lens of visibility that kinda does that little piece for you, that kind of promotional piece? Yep. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, no, really does. I mean, the 100 archives is amazing. Danielle: Mm. Sean O'Beachain: I think it's such a great service and such a great archive and I think it's such a good resource, I guess is the word I'm thinking of. yeah, I mean, that has definitely been a huge thing for Visibility Awards. I know some people think awards aren't the be all and end all, but they are important to me. I guess they give you validation and they also give you visibility. You know, one of the big ones when I was kind of thinking about projects for us was during lockdown, one of the projects we worked on was for a company called Calix. And Calix came to me through a shared contact. was a lady called Alana Smith, who was based in New York. she had a business which was based around helping... social housing projects kind of get off the ground, you know, and her background would have been in sort of funding and helping them with the development stage. she came to me with this brief and we, you know, it been COVID, we had lots of Zoom calls and we clicked and there were just a lot of things were aligned and turned out to be such a nice one. We were both keen to avoid the stereotypes of property development identities, so she wanted to do something different. And right from the start I had an illustrator in mind. There was a Hungarian illustrator, Anna Kavecsis, I think is her name, but she's an amazing illustrator. And I mentioned her to Alanna, and funny enough her... child, Alana's kid, had a book of Anna's illustrations. it was like, she was like, okay, yeah, let's let's go with this. the whole idea what Calyx is, the word Calyx, I didn't know at the time, but it's part of a plant, the part that supports the growth. that was kind of that. Once she explained that to me, was like, okay, well, here's the idea, we're sort of growing communities and that became the positioning line. So, and everything came out of that. So the idea with the illustrations was we wanted to do really simple illustrations of flowers, but houses growing on them, you know? So I did a really nasty, rough drawing and I shared that with Anna and she got it and she came back with this amazing suite of illustrations that were just... Gorgeous and so different to what the other similar companies were doing. So that was kind of the, yeah, it was just the first idea and it happened fast. And I guess with COVID and being quiet, I had the time to really craft it and work on the tone of voice and the messaging. So everything was about sort of putting down roots. Everything was to do with. you know, the language of plants. And that went on just the link back to awards that went on to win the sort best new brand category in the IDIs that year. So that was my first taste of awards and it was great. And it was a real boost for us because the IDI, you know, they're great at publicizing. you know there was an insert in one of the weekend newspapers and I people, friends from school getting in touch saying they had seen it you know so it was nice and it kind of gives you confidence so yeah so that was so awards yeah to me are great for visibility and absolutely I want to enter as much. as I can. We decided this year that I was going to take a step back from it just to focus on, because so much goes into applying for the awards. You want everything to be absolutely as perfect and you want to describe it as perfectly as possible. So it can be kind of tiring. For us, the big thing is we want to work on our own brand refresh at the moment and get those case studies out. So I just consciously decided this year. I was stepping back from entering stuff to focus on that. But we're halfway through the year and I still haven't had a chance. But we'll get there. Danielle: Well I do know the IDI are are changing their timelines for for the next award session. So you've loads of time, so you're fine. But but Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, okay. Yeah, so next time. Danielle: the Calic's identity though, it's it's absolutely stunning the the visuals that the illustrations that Anna Covexis I think you said Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Danielle: created. They're just absolutely stunning. And you're right, they cr they really create a an entirely new kind of voice for that kind of sector, you know, and like I I I I'm interested, so you said you you knew of her illustration style and then you kinda married it with the client and said like, you know, and she had the kid had the book and things like that. You know, that's kind of that really is a kind of gut feeling. You know, you kind of say, I think this will this illustration style and this company and the I think there's gonna be a really nice kind of coalescence between the two here. Like do you feel like you kind of rely on like your gut a lot? And and are you constantly Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, yeah, my sister. Danielle: kind of looking for references that you'll kind of bank and think of, I'll use this for something, you know? Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, no, 100%. I think, I don't know, is it corny, but a huge amount of design is empathy, I think, and looking for a connection. So yeah, I mean, like there's an intuition as well and a bit of an insight, know, so you're instinctively on some level when you have the good conversations with clients, you build up an understanding of their. You know, the personality, are they willing to be more reverent than you might expect? they quite straight-laced? know, so I think, yeah, you use your insight. It's like I said earlier, you know, we're not really a strategy agency, although we do, you know, some strategy, but I think so much of what we do is based on insight. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Sean O'Beachain: and just sort of understanding. So such an important part of the process is getting to build that connection with the client. And Danielle: Mm. Sean O'Beachain: that's why said earlier, I don't ever want to step away from that. It's nice and it's nice joining them when they're at different stages of the process as well. Obviously Barry's are very established, Calyx are only getting up and going. I kind of like to build those relationships, yeah. Danielle: Hmm. And it and it's it's very apparent when you look at your your work that you don't So Studio doesn't have like a house style. Do you know what I mean? Like so you know that sometimes you can kinda set see like where that that came from or who was behind that. But it it's so each project is so distinctive and appropriate for the client themselves. It it doesn't it doesn't it never feels like like when I s when I see your work I don't always know mostly know it's coming from So Studio. Do you know what I mean? Like it's it's I ha Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Danielle: I have to find out where it's from. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Danielle: which I think is is fantastic. Is that a a concerted effort to do that? Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: Yes, yeah, very much so. guess my kind of... Yeah, I just think, you Ireland's small and, you I don't know. You look at some UK or US or Australian studios that have very much of a house style and maybe have a... You know, that's brilliant. I really admire that. But I think... to make yourself attractive to as many clients as possible. I variety is key and it kind of gets boring if you personally I find it bit boring if we were just doing versions of the same thing all Danielle: Mm Sean O'Beachain: the time. But I also think it's down to the designers you're working with as well. They have different styles as well. And I think when you're collaborating, you can back and forth and back and forth and develop something kind of unique. ultimately, it has to be appropriate for the client. While you're designing, you want to produce something lovely and you want to be able to show it off. It has to feel right for the client. So you're dealing with different personalities. So it's only right that the work has different personalities. Danielle: And then I suppose I'd love to talk about the work you did for Hollow Leg because that's I suppose that's an entirely different category, non-alcoholic wine. It's you know it's quite a new category, I would say. Sean O'Beachain: Yep. Danielle: and trying to move into that visual territory. it kind of means like you're discarding the kind of conventions of the alcoholic wine category, but being able to have the freedom then to create something entirely new. So you might maybe talk to us a little bit about that project. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, yeah, so that was a, again, just a really interesting, fun project to work on. guess it started, was two guys, Jamie O'Toole, who's a restaurateur, owns Featherblade and Mr. and then Ronan O'Farrell, who runs WineLab. The two of them have teamed up with a guy in Galicia who had developed a method for making non-alcoholic wine that actually tasted good. know, the process was, you know, it genuinely tastes like decent wine. It had the mouthfeel, all of that. So they wanted to bring that to market, but they were very conscious that up until that point, non-alcoholic wines... were almost apologetic, you know, it was sort of, know, they were big on their advertising the zero percent and it was sort of, it was almost this idea that people were only drinking it because. they were driving or they were only drinking it because they were pregnant or whatever. So it was almost sort of an excuse, but they wanted to get rid of that and just sort of let it be its own thing, you know, and let it not be apologizing for having no alcohol in it. So that was kind of the brief and the two of them, you know, having run their own businesses, you know, and sort of brands that they were on. knew there was a strong appetite for good design, you know, so they were lovely to deal with. It started off with how do we name this? So it was kind of a tricky one. We had loads of ideas, just, know, naming can be a funny thing, you know, it's like people come to it with preconceptions and that name reminds me of someone I went to school with or this or that, you know, so you dismiss things. But what I always try and say is that sort of names are like almost brand, band names, you know, like sometimes you hear a band name, it sounds bizarre, but when in a few months, you know, it's totally normal, you know, and you forget all the baggage that you bring to it. we went through a few options, but ultimately the one that landed was Hollow Leg and the idea behind Hollow Leg was kind of playing on the fact that, you know, when you say someone has a hollow leg, they can drink as much as they want and they can still stand up. So this was kind of saying. Yeah, you can keep drinking this, you know, and it's not going to have an effect on you, you know, a negative effect on you. So there were a couple of shortlisted names, but that's the one that won out. And we went with that. And then that informed all the creative. So, you know, depending on the project, like more and more now when we're working with startups, we try and sort of do enough funneling that we can focus on one route, you know. With the understanding that if that one route isn't right, you'll go back to the well. But with a hollow leg, we thought, look, there's two ideas here popping into my head. So we'll look at those. one of the ideas was around having a label that, a die cut label that wrapped around the bottle and where the label joined the... the space would form essentially a leg silhouette, so a hollow leg, you know. And then the other one was about sort of, it was kind of influenced by op art and sort of optical illusions. And it was all on sort of, you know, Bridget Riley type tunnels and stuff like that. So we presented the two ideas and they loved them both, which is great, but also like, okay, which one do we go with? So we decided to go with the leg silhouette. And we developed that to kind of a highly finished stage. It was great. I was really happy with it. And ultimately we kept coming back to the shape of the leg. You know, is it right? Is it, are there connotations of body images? They're all kind of a little, just, you know, you're checking yourself the whole time, but ultimately what we realized was... that the bottles we were using, were slight variations in circumference on those, which meant if you were having a label that wrapped around to form a leg with a negative space, that leg would always be a different size. So that wasn't going to work. Danielle: So y it was gonna be skinny leg or thick leg. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, exactly. So that was kind of the nail in the coffin. we kind of we sort of shelved that idea and went back to the one that was more op art inspired. And yeah, that was great. It was so much fun to work on. I loved, you know, again, the guys just having that sort of experience in sort of high end business. We got to spec such. you know, really nice finishes on the label. You know, there was a blind embossing, there was debossing, had sort of fluted holographic foils. It was just a really nice, nice piece. One of the distinctive parts of the design was having no cap at the top of the bottle. So you could actually see the cork and the cork was printed with that pattern. So it became quite distinctive. Yeah, yeah. Danielle: that. I absolutely love that touch. I just think it's great. Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, it's actually changed since because there were just from practical reasons, operational reasons that no longer exists, which is a shame. yeah, practicality is the most important thing. But yeah, it was a great project. And again, David Pakenham, who I mentioned earlier, he just brought another layer to it. He worked on building out the set of illustrations and actually making them. move, know, so we had lots of fun creating these optical illusion animations. We tested it out with just pure blocks of colour, we tested it out with messaging and words kind of disappearing down rabbit holes. So it was great and again it was another project that got us a lot of recognition which is nice. Yeah, but it's kind of, like I said, the first packaging project that landed on my lap was in so-and-so and I find I do more more packaging now, but I just personally really enjoy it. I like the tactile side of it, but I would always say that we're not necessarily a packaging studio. It always starts with the brand, the brand first and then the packaging comes out after that. Danielle: I absolutely love the name. I think it's just so Irish. Do you know what it's like? But it's it's just Sean O'Beachain: Good. Danielle: really it and and it's so premium as well. And I think that idea that you're, you know, the alcohol free version is because you're driving, etc. That I think that really has that mindset has shifted and a lot of people just simply don't drink anymore. And the op they're having those up options. I think that that area is growing, you know, really, really quickly and there's a lot Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Danielle: a lot more you know, kind of premium brands entering that that area. So it's it's lovely to see an Irish an Irish brand like representing that that kind of that sector too. So it's great. Sean O'Beachain: And from what I can see, they're doing well. mean, they're being stopped in the States as well, know, and internationally. yeah, so more power to them. Danielle: Yeah, yeah. And then from from the alcohol world to I suppose the kind of the agency, the c the concept agency of bricolage, maybe you might speak to us a little bit about that project. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, so Bricolage, that was an interesting one. Bricolage are a cultural insights agency. So we would have worked with Viv Chambers, who is kind of the head of Bricolage on several projects in the past. And I had a good relationship with them. And every project we had done with them had gone well. They were involved in berries. They were involved in the UX designers sheared way back. You know, so there was a good rapport there and eventually they just came and said, look, time to refresh our brand. So, so, so we got involved. So Viv is just, just an impressive character. You know, he's just this wealth of knowledge and information, but he's really keen to challenge you, you know. So ultimately what happened there was they, because of what they do, they had done a lot of the strategic stuff and they came to us with pretty much a fully formed creative brief, which is fine. There's a girl, Jude Gullay, who works with Breckelage, and she had done a lot of work. they landed on a positioning line of in-culture creation, which was the idea of, know, sort of... within culture is the opportunity for creation. that was kind of their line and they gave it to us and gave us a mood board of stuff that I guess because they're an eclectic agency, everyone wanted to have a say. So they all had sort of contributed images and there was this sort of massive mood board and we were like, how do we distill this down? So anyway, we got to work and we landed very quickly on a really, really simple idea, you know, just that Brickalage was the viewfinder. through which culture was viewed. So really simple. We wanted it to be primarily black and white. It wasn't that the brand was gonna be a black and white brand. It was gonna be black and white, but the colors would change depending on the projects and case studies they worked on. So there was a lot of color in that ultimately, but it was really just a simple idea and they bought into it straight away. I think because they had done such a... you know, a good job on the strategic work beforehand, you know, so we had loads of fun with that. Again, David, who I keep mentioning, David just went to town with the motion. You know, he came up with a whole series of really lovely motions that were all about interaction, intersection, connection, you know, and that was it. was great fun. But one of those... one of those solutions where Viv and the team saw it, said, yeah, that's that's right, when can we launch it? you know, there were different, that was a good example of, you know, a wider team, you know, obviously the guys in Brickalage worked on the strategy, we worked on the brand and the design and the motion, and then we got Post involved. because we don't do digital, but they're obviously amazing at that. So they took on the website. We had arranged calls every week or two weeks just to keep in touch and make sure was kind of, everything was aligned with what we had done in terms of the brand. And they did a great job and everyone was happy. it was a nice project to work on. Danielle: And what a great like like positioning statement in culture creation to jump off Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, it's working. Danielle: as a jumping off point is like it's so rich, like it's it's fantastic. And ha and working with those Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, no, it's nice. Danielle: guys and being handed, I suppose, such richness, you know, do do you feel like that kind of gives you more scope to come to those ideas quicker because it seems like you kinda you arrived at a solution quite quickly because you had a really probably a really good brief to begin with. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, yeah, Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: and I don't know if it's luck as well. don't know, because sometimes it can be daunting when you're dealing with experts, know, real experts, you know, the people that you really admire and you're Danielle: Yeah. Sean O'Beachain: like, right, I don't want to drop the ball here. I want to do as good a job as possible. I think, yeah, no, absolutely. The good creative brief went a long way. Yeah. Danielle: Yeah. And that ability then to pull in, like, you know, posts and get the guys there to kind of work on the digital aspect of it again just kinda brings it back to that idea of collaboration that So Studio Sean O'Beachain: Yeah. Danielle: is is definitely all about and bringing in the specialists who really have that those skill sets to get the the parts of the job done that is outside of of the studio itself. Like so it's it is it really kinda is I suppose it's becoming very apparent that that's how every project kinda operates, you know, within within the studio. Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, yeah, very much so. Danielle: And then I suppose one of then the the last project we might actually talk about is Everstead. And you might just kinda yeah, you might just this Sean O'Beachain: Yes. Danielle: wasn't this was naming as well, wasn't it? This was naming and Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was kind of a full circle one. This is one of our more recent projects. So Everstead is actually Alana again through Calix, so New York based business. But this time she's teamed up with a partner, Mike Callahan, whose background would be in capital. So they have they've started a consultancy to help. So a lot of. A lot of social housing projects don't get off the ground because of the complexity of the paperwork and the funding and all this kind of stuff. they kind of deal with social housing projects, they deal with charities who have money that they want to put into these projects. It's a consultancy where they offer kind of the collective wealth of knowledge that they have built up over the years, but they also have developed an AI engine that helps. to, helps the whole process, helps with the paperwork, helps all of that. So they came with a sort of working title, so they asked us to help with the naming. And again. That process, there's kind of a tried and tested process we have, but at the same time, it can be quite loose as well. So we kind of created three territories that we felt were appropriate and came up with a huge list of names. But I kind of never really believed in presenting the client with 200 names and getting them to pick. So what we did was we built that down to sort of a short list and a medium list and sort of expanded on the ones we felt were more interesting. So ultimately we landed on the name Everstead. which just, I guess, sounded solid, sounded permanent, sounded positive. So they were on board. They loved it. Luckily, we could get Everstead.ai, which was perfect. So that happened very quickly. And then we got into the creative process. again, like I sort of hinted at earlier, what we found now... our processes really instead of going off and doing multiple routes will look at three distinct creative territories. So three ideas, know, the three sort of metaphors to hang the brand on, you know, and I still don't know exactly how I feel about mood boarding because you're using existing imagery, you know, but the idea is to sort of steer them. to get a sense of their appetite and it's kind of a jumping off point but we did these three territories descriptive in text and then supported by some imagery and they landed on one in particular which was all about sort of strong foundations and layered structures so and we got a sense that they were again knowing a lot. she was up for doing something that was a little bit different. She wanted something very colourful. So, yeah, we just got stuck into that. The whole brand is built on layers. It's the layers of process that go into a project like that. And it's also about the actual physical foundations and layers of buildings. So the idea was about taking something from 2D and turning it into 3D. So taking something off plan. to reality and the line we came up with was from plan to place. So from flat to physical. And everything kind of came out of that. The animation was about taking a flat shape and gradually revolving it around so you get the three dimensional element to it. And that carried through into the logo, it carried through into the type treatment. And ultimately the colour palette was one of the more unique things. It's quite a warm palette, you so I kind of feel that there's nothing cold about it. their business, know, while it is property development, it's for a good cause, it's social, you know, it's social housing, so it should have warmth and we developed layers of imagery, you know, that would talk about the planning stage, about the process stage and about the end result, you know, so that's one again, we haven't really had a chance to put out there, but we're still in the stages there, the app is built, we're working with them on... help them with some of front end details. They have a kind of holding website that they did themselves, but they need a proper, full, you know, all singing, all dancing website. So we'll figure out how that's gonna happen. And yeah, it's nice, you know, but it's lovely when a client that you worked with six years ago comes back to you and they have a new project, you know, and they're kind of keen to work with you again. Danielle: Yeah, and it's it's it's kinda a lot of your work is that that way, isn't it? That someone's coming back to you and working with the same people. time and time again, even in terms of the clients that you're working with, not only the collaborators that you're designing with, you know, you're kind of your your cli clients are repeat customers, you know, that they're coming back with new projects, which I suppose really kind of shows how talented you guys are and you are. Sean O'Beachain: I mean, there's Danielle: for new Sean O'Beachain: times, there are times when, you know, I guess like the first step, the first project that we, you know, when we work on it, the idea is to give them everything they need to, Danielle: Mm. Sean O'Beachain: and not feel they have to depend on us, you know, it's to set them up with all the assets and all that. And sometimes you do have clients where you get them set up and then, you know. they want to work with maybe a freelancer or whatever, know, and that does happen, but you know, that's absolutely fine as well. That's totally understandable. But it is nice when they come back and it's kind of, it means, it sort of reassures you that you, they've enjoyed the process. Danielle: Yeah, exactly. And and the experience of working with you has been something that they want to repeat, you know, and that says a lot too. But just I suppose because the the podcast is called Rough Drafts, I'd like to know do you have any future kinda or current rough drafts, that maybe, you know, an idea that you is percolating that you need to kinda look at further, a client that you want to work with, the project, a type of type of type of job you want to get. Is there any rough drafts that you can see in the in the So studio future? Sean O'Beachain: I think the big one for us is, and again I sort of touched on it earlier, refreshing our own brand. It's sort of an ongoing project. We were lucky enough to work with a lady called Moe Doyle who would have been, she would have worked in Bulletproof for years, Bulletproof in London, who would work on Johnny. So she relocated to Ireland and actually lived through brick-a-lage thought it would be worth us chatting at some point. I reached out to Mo and she did a lot of work helping us sort of redefine what our offering is. know, so we've done all the kind of strategic work, we've done the verbal stuff and now it's just realising it and turning it into a brand but it's fine in that time. So that's kind of big one that's on in my mind at the moment is just getting that live because a lot of work has gone into it now. It's just sort of pushing it live. Danielle: And are are there is there any clients that you'd like y is your kinda you know, is your North Star, is there any clients you'd like to work with? Sean O'Beachain: Yeah, I kind of think about that a lot. Like, I kind of, I'm going to sort of dodge the question because I don't know if there's an answer to it, but I definitely, when I set up, I remember writing a list of these are the clients I want to work with, you know, that I'm interested in music and hospitality and culture and stuff like that. So these are the ones I want to work with. that still stands, but ultimately. If they're up for doing interesting work and challenging work, then I'm really up for working with them. But I think I would like to do, I'd like to continue to do sort of packaging more in the premium realm. I'd love to work on a... you know, more alcohol brands, I'd love to do a high end whiskey bottle. You know, we've had projects that we worked on that very nearly sort of saw the light of day and for whatever reason got shelved, you know, but I think working, amusing, identity would be amazing as well. So there's a whole load of stuff that I'd love to do and hopefully we'll get the chance to do eventually. Danielle: Amazing. Sean, thank you so much for your time today. Small but mighty, maybe that's your new your new strap line. No, not that. Don't use that ever. But no, it's been fantastic. It's great to see the ability for you to, you know, work on such big clients, stay so dedicated to the craft of what you do and stay so close to it and and really show that. idea of true collaboration. so it's fantastic to have a look at your project. So now get your website sorted and put all these out there and start Sean O'Beachain: Yes, yeah, no, will. That's that's that's that'll be done before the end of the year, hopefully. But no, it's been great. It's been really enjoyable chatting to you. Thanks for having me on.