Daksha Nair: Namaste everyone and welcome to the Ramayana Odyssey podcast. And today's episode is one that's very, very special to me because we have Acharya Vivekji, who has been a very guiding teacher and a co-author in the Ramayana Odyssey project. has basically been helping us out on the vision of this work and supporting us in presenting the Ramayana in a way that really connects with a modern audience while remaining rooted in traditional wisdom. Vivek Ji thank you so much for being a part of the Ramayana Odyssey and for guiding us in this journey. ⁓ Acharya Vivek: is my honor. I love the Ramayana, so really I'm fortunate to be involved in all of these facets. ⁓ Daksha Nair: I would love to have a conversation with you about the Ramayana itself, its significance, its timeless wisdom, and why it continues to ⁓ people even today. ⁓ Vivekji, many people have heard of the Ramayana, but not everyone understands what it truly represents. So, if someone were hearing about it for the first time, how would you describe what the Ramayana is? Acharya Vivek: Sure. I appreciate your passion for the same. we first have to start understanding the Ramayana in terms of its etymology. What does this word actually mean? And so the literal meaning is ayana which means path or footsteps. And Rama is the divine ⁓ who ⁓ this path and took these footsteps. And most understand Ramayana in that way. And that certainly is what it means. But for those who are more self-reflective, those who are trying to engage in more self-development, then this really is ⁓ means, and Rama means joy. So it's a means to joy. So by understanding and by following, the way that and spoke and act, in this way, we too can become happier. We can find that ⁓ our is joy as well. Daksha Nair: I think that's a very in-depth explanation. Thank you, Vivekji. So the Ramayana is sometimes described as an epic poem, and sometimes it's described as a sacred scripture, and sometimes it's seen as a historical narrative. There's so many perspectives on how to see it. So how should we really understand the Ramayana? What kind of text is it? Acharya Vivek: Yeah. What you shared is all accurate. Based on how deeply you are involved in self-reflection and self-development, relatedly, that's how deep the Ramayana is. So let me give you a worldly example before I explain this more pertaining to the Ramayana. I've been married for almost 16 years, but when I first, let's say, physically saw my present wife, we... Daksha Nair: you Acharya Vivek: first started off as friends, then let's say we became girlfriend, boyfriend, and got engaged, and now we're married and we have our own children. So the more deeply we got into our relationship, the more our relationship grew closer. So now with the Ramayana as well, maybe less concerned with self-reflection, so the Ramayana is this epic poet. epic poet that is Rishi Valmiki Ji, Rishi Tulsidas Ji, who wrote these epic poems. But as you engage in more self-reflection about what's the purpose of life and am I happy, this goes from a poem to history. In Sanskrit, this is described as an itihasa. This happened. And there's documentation of this, whether it's through the Mandir in Ayodhya or the bridge to Sri Lanka. And now for those who really have made the purpose of their lives to be joy and to spread joy, that's where the Ramayana goes from poetry to history to one's own means. This is my means to becoming happier and happiness. So the Ramayana is all of that. we do understand this when it comes to people who go from acquaintances to friends to significant others. Daksha Nair: Okay. Acharya Vivek: the relatability or the same process happens with the Ramayana. Daksha Nair: I think that was the perfect analogy to use for this. So the Ramayana is traditionally attributed to Valmiki, often called the Adikavi, the ⁓ first poet. ⁓ could you us a little bit about Valmiki as the author of Ramayana and why there are so many retellings across India and even across other parts of Asia? Acharya Vivek: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We have to go back a little bit farther. The original thinker of the Ramayana would be Bhagavan Shiva, and the original student of the Ramayana is his spouse, Bhagavati Parvati. And this original it is ⁓ that this is one billion ⁓ I that with a B. Now the first one to document this, as in going from thinking to actually writing, as you've mentioned, is Rishi Valmiki. Now he wasn't always Rishi Valmiki. He wasn't born like this. He was an ordinary person. In a harsh way, he was a cruel person. But that he was challenged by life. He was challenged by a wise person that Is this your potential? Is this what you're supposed to be doing in life? And through this, he became extremely self-reflective. I've used that term many times in our sharing so far. And in his extreme self-reflection, he essentially became calm in body, quiet in mind, so much so that an anthill formed around him. And that's why Daksha Nair: Wow. Acharya Vivek: he came to be known as Valmiki, which essentially means or the one in an anthill or the one covered by an antil. Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: because he was reflecting so much about his life and happiness, that naturally got connected to Sree Rama He's the icon of joy, he's the icon of virtuousness. And so Rishi Valmiki Ji started to document what he was experiencing, what he was learning. And once someone had asked him, why did you write this? You already had it in your heart, but why did you write this down? And he shared a beautiful answer, and that is, I know what it feels like to be a dry leaf that's tossed around by the wind. In other words, he knew what purposelessness felt like and didn't want anyone to experience such sadness, such trauma. And so he wrote this down to help people find purpose, find peace. now you've asked, how come there's so many versions of the Ramayana? because there's so many personality types. Some are more in tune with learning in Sanskrit about responsibility. So they have a fondness for the Rishi Valmiki Ramayana. For me personally, have more of a fondness for Bhakti or dedication and learning in Hindi and English. So I followed the Shri Tulsidas Ramayana and is better or worse. They're just different. Daksha Nair: you you Acharya Vivek: Like if you and I went to Taco Bell and you got a hard shell taco and I got a soft shell taco, both flour or corn, but we have different personality types and preferences for what's tasty to us or what's good for us. And so the Ramayana is that malleable of self-development that is eternal and applicable in different languages, in different contexts, in different ways for people to relate to this. ⁓ Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. I think that makes perfect sense Vivekji. So Vivekji, Sanatana Dharma, often called Hinduism, so vast and it's a very beautiful tradition with so many scriptures and teachings. So could you help us understand the significance of Ramayana within this complex tradition? Acharya Vivek: Sure, sure. Dharma means infinite nature. And the implication of this is reality is Creation is infinity. You are infinity. I am infinity. And even these words of reality, creation, you, ⁓ I, is only from our perspective. Because from the perspective of infinity, such conditions and labels don't exist. There's not big infinity and small infinity. Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: There is only infinity, but we've very much forgotten that. We live by you and I and mine and yours, etc So the Ramayana is a map that encourages self-reflection about who really am I, what is my purpose? And for someone who's sincere with self-reflection, it leads to self-development. I start to practice virtues Sree-Rama like being disciplined, being compassionate, and virtuousness is equivalent to joyousness. So this is a very psychological reasoning for how the Ramayana is aligned or the trajectory is for Sanatana Dharma, for me to feel infinity is reality, that I am infinite. Now for some ⁓ or direct messaging, about freedom and emancipation is too much. Maybe one doesn't have that maturity or that inclination. So there's many cultural practices that come from the Ramayana. When my parents were growing up in India, as an example, every fall they celebrated the Ramlila, where people in the... Daksha Nair: Mm. Acharya Vivek: village, they would all dress up as Rama, as Sri Rama, and they would celebrate Deepavali, him coming back from Lanka. And through this, let's say the community came together. Through this, there is a practice in selflessness. So it's almost like the cultural aspect is an entry point into the spiritual aspect. So that's why this is integral. It's critical to the Daksha Nair: Mmm. Acharya Vivek: vision statement, the mission statement of Sanatana Dharma, infinite nature, self-development, study and discipline. And before you ask the next question, and I really like your questions, you're asking short questions, I'm giving long answers. I just hope I'm not speaking in abstracts because that doesn't really help me or the listener. I hope I'm being clear enough. Daksha Nair: Yeah. You are Vivekji. This is very, very clear. I've learned that the Vedas are considered the most authoritative scriptures in Hinduism, but we also have texts like Bhagavad Gita, ⁓ this is one that people see as very logical and very systematic ⁓ the world. ⁓ ⁓ such profound scriptures already existing within our tradition, why is the Ramayana so unique and important? ⁓ Acharya Vivek: Mm-hmm. You are right. The Veda is the original Shastra comes from the word ⁓ Shasana means to be disciplined, to be directed again towards one's potential, towards peace. Now, is extremely profound and direct. And for someone like me ⁓ who maybe is more distracted. For someone like me who's more worldly, I wanna have fun and I wanna build a house and so on, may not relate to the ⁓ specifically to the Upanishad, which is the knowledge facet of the Veda. So in our religion, in our culture, the scripture is alive. It is dynamic. Out of compassion, the scripture... was infused into that which is more simple, more personal, and that is the Bhagavad Gita. The teachings of the Upanishad and the Bhagavad Gita are not different. It's how they're expressed that is different. It's more rhythmic, the Bhagavad Gita. The context is more understandable in terms of a fight or conflict. Now, even the Bhagavad Gita for some, Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: This is not their entry point. They have more of a social personality, a cultural personality. want to see more action, let's say. And that's why I have learned that the Bhagavad Gita is the script and Ramayana is the play. So they're the same. This is the script and this is the play. So the Ramayana is the Bhagavad Gita being lived. Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Acharya Vivek: being shown in thoughts and relationships and so on. So here too, the point I'm making is the contents of the Ramayana are the same as the Bhagavad Gita, which is the same as the Upanishad. It's simply a different expression. trying to make this more relatable in a relationship, sometimes with my kids, I them, sometimes I hug them, sometimes I high five them. It's all affection, but how that affection is expressed is based on the mood or the context. Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So, Ji some people wonder if ancient epics are still relevant today, I feel. So would you respond to someone who's asking why we should study Ramayana today if it's such an old story? Acharya Vivek: Yeah, gonna start with making this ⁓ me. As someone who was born and raised in, in Niagara Falls, Canada, I grew having the same question as you're presenting. But it's only when I ⁓ actually this a master, ⁓ I learned Ramayana and had the inspiration to try. ⁓ Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: to practice some components of this, did I realize that this fundamentally is eternal? And that's why Mahabharata, which is another historical map in Sanatana Dharma, Ramayana, they're often described as puranas. The etymology of the word purana is pura, api, nava, which means it is ancient and also applicable. So it has its roots thousands, millions of years ago, but applicable to today and tomorrow and the next year and the next decade and so on. And for some who may not have this understanding of how can a scripture be like this, think about medicine, whatever Tylenol is made out of, and I have no idea. Hundreds years ago, that chemical helped with body pain and fevers. Now, 100 years later, it still does, correct? Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: You can call it Tylenol, you can put it in this shape or that shape, but that medicine was ancient and is applicable. So let's say Tylenol is for the outer body, Ramayana is for the inner body. Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah, that makes complete sense. one thing I feel stands out about the Ramayana is how deeply it goes into human emotions and moral dilemmas. So stuff like duty, love, sacrifice, loyalty and conflict. So why do you think the Ramayana is so powerful in helping us understand these inner struggles of human life? Acharya Vivek: that's reality. ⁓ don't feel that it's accurate that relationships are binary and linear, nor our jobs or our responsibilities. There's so many factors that go into making a decision. Factors that go into understanding. There's a ⁓ music band, they're an alternative rock group that I grew up listening to. ⁓ Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: called Live, L-I-V-E. And one of their lovely songs is The Beauty of Grey. Living is quite grey. There's always two sides to a story, correct? ⁓ one country, this is right, in another country, this is less right or is wrong. So the Ramayana is extremely accurate in that way. When a happening is happening and a decision needs to be made, the Ramayana teaches us to account for multiple perspectives. ⁓ Daksha Nair: Thank Mm-hmm. Yeah. This is Acharya Vivek: teaches us accountability, that when a decision is made, and if it's right, good. And if it's wrong, learn from it. I think a beautiful, potent example of this is when Bhagavati Sita, for a moment, let's say was distracted by this golden deer, but from that came so much learning, so, so, so much learning. It wasn't, why did you do this, and blame. There was, this happens, distraction happens. Daksha Nair: Okay. Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: What can we do to turn that distraction into focus? How can we make this a learning experience? So the Ramayana is very indicative. It's like a photograph, a video of our own lives and the way that Sri Rama thought and spoke and acted and Bhagavati Sita etc. It helps us to reflect more on how we should live our lives to be more holistic, to be more Daksha Nair: yeah, that makes sense. just before we conclude, Vivek Ji I'd like to briefly mention the Ramayana Odyssey Project. So this podcast and the upcoming book series that we're working on are part of an effort to present the Ramayana in a way that's accessible to modern readers and listeners by combining storytelling with reflection and practical insights that are applicable for everyday life. Vivekji, you've been a co-author and a guiding teacher for this entire project and we are so deeply grateful for your support and guidance. And as we continue this journey, what do you feel is the importance and relevance of a project like Ramayana Odyssey today? Acharya Vivek: Daksha you don't need to be grateful. fact, I should be grateful to you ⁓ to the team that is working on this because opportunities one gets ⁓ experience a or a map of self-development in a non-general way. Like the way that we're experiencing this is, I'm sure you've heard before, the devil is in the details. Conversely, divinity is in the details. It's the details of the facial expressions. And in our culture, whether it's Bharatanatyam or Kuchipudi, it's the details in the eyes or the hands that bring out the beauty of that art form. The same goes with scripture, with maps of self-development. Daksha Nair: Yeah. Mm-hmm. This is. Acharya Vivek: So the vision of the Ramayana Odyssey is, as you've mentioned, there are many, many, many renditions of the Ramayana. From the original thinker that is Bhagavan Shiva, and then you have many authors in many periods with many political backgrounds or social happenings. How can we have an offering? How can we have a platform where people are not overwhelmed? on where to start or what is the main message that is being shared. How can we bring all of this together and distill it in a relatable way, in a practical way, at the same time not diluting? Because if it's diluted, then it's not going to have an effect on us. We're not going to become better people. So how do we make this authoritative applicable? So the Ramayana Odyssey is an effort. ⁓ Daksha Nair: Okay. Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: to bring that which is authoritative and make this applicable for all sorts of generations. As an example, I'm a second generation seeker. My parents were born in Bharat or India, but I was born in Canada. Now I have two kids who are also Canadians. So the third generation is coming in. And I'm describing this as an offering or a platform because like what we're doing right now, there is a podcast, there are songs, are... Daksha Nair: Mm-hmm. Acharya Vivek: books section of the Ramayana. There will be workshops, there will be study groups. It's an immersive experience. The really is a catalyst for Ramayana to go from theory to application. So these are some sentiments about the Ramayana Odyssey and it's so big and really I've just shared the tip of this bigness. ⁓ Daksha Nair: You Vivekji, thank you so much for sharing all of these insights with us today and for guiding this project. For our listeners, this conversation is just the beginning of our journey through the Ramayana. ⁓ we hope that you will continue exploring these timeless stories and reflections ⁓ us throughout the Ramayana Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening, and we look forward to continuing this journey together. Acharya Vivek: Thank you, Daksha. Be well. Daksha Nair: Thank you.