Matt: Okay, so games industry hot topic. Topic. we discussed the hot topic of the day and we tried to find a new angle on it. And today we are going to be talking about serious games and the use of games outside of pure entertainment. so we've got surgeons on sticks, you know, surgeons using video games to enhance their ability to operate. Those that's actually video games and specific simulators that have been built for them. and also beyond the operating room, so we've got drone pilots, astronauts, military personnel, massive companies using serious games as training as well. So gamification and simulations. Luke, Tash, what are your thoughts on this

Luke: I'm a big fan. I think it's awesome. and I love I love the idea of surgeons trying some software first before they cut me open or do some brain

Tasha: Mm-hmm

Luke: surgery on me to get rid of, I don't know, like a tumour in my brain or something. I love the idea that they're trying it fifteen, twenty, a hundred times

Tasha: Mm.

Luke: until they get the technique right. I think that's great. And and the and the gap between what a game is and what entertainment is and what training is is is is narrowing as well. And sometimes you you may use something or have an experience with something but it's it's it's kind of a mashup of all these different things. Like I know people that play truck simulator and for hours they play truck simulator. I know people that watch people play truck simulator. I know people that watch people that watch people play truck simulator. I know that sounds like a inception but

Tasha: Does truck simulator help you drive a truck?

Luke: Well that's well yeah it does. Yeah, because it's quite it's quite it's quite realistic and it's quite monotonous and and you have to go from pit stop to pit stop and stuff like that. And what I'm getting at is that it's it it's interesting that people wanna do like l mundane things or straightforward things in in in a a a three D world if you like. And then if you go back to the brain surgeons things, it's saving someone's life by doing these things over and over again or repeat.

Tasha: So what I'm curious about for that is the transversal. So you have the digital side, so you can practice and hone the cutting and whatnot. But you're obviously practicing the feed the world, so the resistance isn't there for you to feel the

Luke: Yeah.

Tasha: skin layers, the muscle, the flesh, the fat, any sinuous tendons. You don't know what any of those feel like. How does that translate over? So I'm wondering if there's a stage in between like tattoo artists practice on sketchbooks, then they practice on of plastic like oranges or pig skin to kind

Luke: Mm.

Tasha: of get the depth of the needles and to see how it feels on that before they start to tattoo people. Is there something similar for surgeons that you practice digital to get the fine art then maybe be used also start practicing trying to cut up I don't know pig cadavers to get that feeling of muscle sinuous tendon I don't know.

Luke: Mm.