Tasha: was in Glasgow this weekend. Yeah, I went home to see my mum and to introduce her to the new fella. So that was nice. ⁓ Matt: I'm Where are you? Aww. OOOO Luke: They haven't introduced us to the new fella. Matt: Yeah, why haven't you introduced us to the new fella? Tasha: I mean, you weren't in Glasgow. That's why you were in Greece. Luke: ⁓ so we've got to go to Glasgow. Right. Matt: Well, you could send him the link to this podcast recording. Does he? Hi. Miss. Miss. was going to go with Mrs. Tash. Luke: Yeah, tell him to like and subscribe. Nice. Hello, Mr. Tash. Tasha: He listens to it. He does, he listens. Yeah. Hello. Hi Mr Tash. Mrs. Taff, mean, hey, 50-50, easy. Luke: Well, why not? Yeah, give it a go. Matt: Okay, so like, okay, so dish the tea, what's happening? Tasha: So, you know, we went to Glasgow, met my mum. It all went well. I met my friends, went around a couple of my old haunts. Yeah, ⁓ yeah, he definitely passed it out. He is a very charmed person. There was never any doubt. He is very socially, very charismatic. And he can just tailor any situation. It's really great. So means that I don't have to do it. He does. Luke: Pass the test. Nice. Good. Good. Matt: ⁓ Okay. Ugh. Luke: Hmm, sounds good. Tasha: It was really really good and I showed him some of my old haunts ⁓ Matt: Yeah. So you used to be a ghost. Or you still are a ghost. Tasha: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm the ominous ghost that lingers. Yeah. Luke: They haunts or dives? That's the question. Yeah. Yeah. Sticky floor. Matt: It's Glasgow, so I it probably dives. Tasha: Hauntz is probably better. Hauntz is better. What we do, like Glasgow does have a pub called Nice and Sleazy's. Yeah. And Sleazy. No, we went to a bar called Slouch. It's somewhere that I used to drink when I was younger. It was really nice, really chill. The music was good. Stuff that I recognised, because, you know, apparently over 35, I didn't recognise all the new stuff coming in. Luke: Nice, classy place. Matt: Hahaha Luke: Mmm. Matt: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Tasha: Then I found some other bars, but oh yeah, I used to drink here and here. We need go back to these places. But Glasgow is just, there are pubs everywhere. There's a really nice place like a beer garden called Sloan's, Beer Hall Beer Garden type idea. And then there's one called Tabac that they're a really nice drink called Panther Milk, which is like a white Russian, but not. But it's made in Glasgow. It's like specifically like Glaswegian. Picked up a bottle of some Glaswegian gin. Luke: Wow. Tasha: So, Glasgow gin. ⁓ So, bottled and distilled and made in Glasgow. So, got a bottle of that. So, yeah, was a really nice trip. Flying visit. went Friday night, came back on a Sunday. Luke: class we did. Matt: Nice, like that. Luke: Yeah, it's a wild night out in Glasgow. I've been there a few times. Tasha: We went and done karaoke in a wee old man pub and it was fabulous. Matt: I don't think I've ever been. Luke: Yes, it's mad. You can go to the most calm looking place and it's still mad. Yeah. Tasha: yeah, absolutely. It was really good. Matt: ⁓ The games hot topic, discussed the hot topic of the day, ⁓ AI, unemployment, sexism, etc. And and find the new angle on it. ⁓ Today, we're going to be about work, ⁓ life balance and crunch culture. is it? Is it a force for good in the industry? Has it seen its day ⁓ and is on the way out as a ⁓ broad culture within games? Tash, Luke, what are your thoughts? Tasha: We dislike crunch. No, no, I dislike it. Luke: Or do we? Or do we? Or do we? Matt: Or do we? Devil's avocado. Luke: So I think when there are deadlines and when there are big milestones to hit, if the team are dedicated and really love what they're doing and want to be part of it and like really committed to it, they will offer to work over time. won't be, they won't go to the point where they're being forced down the road where it used to be in the early 2000s, 90s, et cetera. Tasha: So you've gone from forcing them to... What can I only think of, like really sneaky, if you're really passionate about this, you will offer to work in your spare time on your weekends and your evenings. Only if you're really passionate about the industry though, right? Luke: But people do. Matt: Mm-hmm. Luke: But it's not necessarily that people are asking that, they're not saying that. it's that they know there's a deadline there. But it's also what other industries do as well. Tasha: No, but that's really insidious. You're just kind of hoping. No, no, it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean it's good just because others do it doesn't make it good. If I jumped off a bridge with you as well. Luke: But if... depends what's at the bottom of the bridge. Matt: That depends. Yeah, I was going to say that does depend. Does it look fun? Tasha: Hmm. I feel like, what? Luke: Yeah, am I attached to a bungee cord? But what I'm saying is that if you love what you do and you're really passionate about what you do and you're with people that you consider your friends and stuff and you're working together, having fun and stuff, a lot of people spend a lot of time at work and working on things that are creative, something they're working on that they're hugely passionate about. They're like, yeah, we've got to hit that deadline. We want to hit that deadline. No one's asking us to. Sometimes as a producer, I've seen that and gone, guys, you can't. Tasha: Yeah. Luke: You can't be putting this many hours in because you burn yourself out. Get home and put the effort in tomorrow. But you often see people that are really passionate about finishing something stick about. that's not technically crunch. know crunch is more when you sort of, everyone has to work. We've got a milestone. You have to hit it. It's in your contract to work overtime unpaid. That's different. That's how we were. Tasha: Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a couple of great areas there, right? Really passionate, really up for what you want to do and you want to do these things and finish the work. Great. That's on you. We've always told you don't do it for don't do crunch, don't put in the effort, you'll burn out. That's absolutely correct. However, when you phrase it in the frame of mind of if you really love something, you'll put in the hours, you're no better than the person saying we have a headline to hit, get it done. Matt: Well, let's let's go attach. Sorry. Luke: Mm. Yep. Tasha: that's no better. What you should be doing is striving for a balance and encouraging people that you might be passionate about this, you might want to do it, but do take a break from the computer, go enjoy your life, you have a life outside of this. If you are hitting crunch, you're having to hit deadlines, then that is a result of poor planning, not being able to cut back your scope, looking at scope creep, and not really having a stable model for your project, whatever you're trying to do. That really highlights deeper root issues but you shouldn't be encouraging crunch saying sentences such as if you're super passionate and you love what you do you'll do this so we can hit the deadline or hope for it. No I know I'm just saying the way that came across is how that came across like that is a really insipid way of insinuating that. Luke: That's not, yeah, that's, yeah, that's not me saying that to those people. That's, yeah, yeah. That's, hmm. No, no, no. No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. No, that wouldn't be me saying it. Matt: Well, let's just take a step back for a second because I'd like to define what we mean by these different terms. So over time is one thing. Crunch is, as you referenced earlier, Luke, crunch is an entirely different thing. It's almost like. Tasha: . Luke: Mm. Matt: like you've almost got this kind of like spectrum of, okay, I put in an extra hour or two one day this week because I was in a flow state. I absolutely, you know, and I just felt like I was so close to the solution that it was worth me putting in a little extra time. You know what? I rocked up the next day, like a couple of hours later, just to kind of compensate for it. Like that's, that's a very healthy balance. But then you've got all the way up to and including, ⁓ Luke: Mm. Yeah. That's healthy. Mm-hmm. Matt: essentially what boils down to a sort of enforced months long 60 to 100 hour weeks to try to like you were saying Tash hit some kind of deadline, whatever it may be. So there's always going to be nuance. There's always going to be times where you can look at it objectively and go. Luke: Mm. Matt: Is this needed? this important? ultimately, is this short lived? And there's going to be genuine cultural issues that are, if not introduced by leadership, are absolutely allowed by the leadership to manifest. So where's the line? Luke: Mm. Mm. Yeah, it's a thin line and it's tricky line. And like I say, it comes down to that level of healthiness of working a few hours over time here and there to hit deadlines, working together, like everyone's in it together type feeling. like that, teams typically like that. Like we're all working towards a big release together and it's a big push. And I think that's healthy. And some of the greatest games out there have had a ⁓ heavy push at the end, but not... Tasha: Yeah. Luke: Like the crunch, it used to be in the 2000s and stuff where it was like, everyone's working till midnight and we're going to keep working overtime until yada yada. And that was very unhealthy. And me and you went through that map back in the day with testing as well. No doubt. Tash has been through it as well. Yeah. Crunch. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. Matt: We did, but... Tasha: overtime and crunch? No, I refuse. No, I 100 % refuse. I don't know. I think at one point there was one of my previous studios, ⁓ long, long time ago, said that you need to come in a Saturday because the team are doing overtime. was like, for what? And it was like, is the only time I ever done it because it was a contractor and he needed the cash. After that, nah, no. Luke: Mm. Mm. Tasha: have a life outside of this. have friends I want to go see. I have plans. have training. have competitions. And trust me, you want me to go do my training for my mental health and your safety. Luke: Hmm. Tasha: do not interfere with my personal life, my working hours and my working hours, if it doesn't get done between then it can either way tomorrow we have to reassess scope during working hours, 100 % no. And I don't encourage my team to do it either, like do your work, go home, if I need to reduce the scope, they need to reduce the scope for me to consider what's going into the release and actually assess whether this is needed or 100 % like that. Matt: Mm. Luke: Yeah, it's almost like it was expected. Matt: That's good. mean, it's interesting because the times that Luke was talking about there are like very long time ago. And A, I was a lot younger and had the energy to do things like that. These days, I'd be very much more like that, Tash. I mean, it was actually quite a laugh hanging out. Because the line between Luke: Yeah. ⁓ And it was fun, wasn't it? Yeah. ⁓ Tasha: Hmm. and Yeah. Matt: Certainly for us, the people that we were working with back then, the line between work and social life was very blurred. We absolutely hung out after work all the time and in work. it was a very different situation. What I'm liking about the games industry at the moment is that it is becoming less and less. Luke: It was, yeah. Hmm. Yep. Tasha: Mm. Matt: in terms of companies enforcing overtime because people can talk openly and freely about whether it's happening on a particular project or not. There's various examples of overtime leading to some excellent games. I Red Dead Redemption 2 is one where crunch happened for a very long time. But the reaction to that... Tasha: Hmm. Luke: Yep. Yep. GTA would be the same. Matt: was overwhelmingly negative. Like A, great game, but B, don't do overtime. That's ridiculous. But Cyberpunk 2077, like vast amounts of overtime went into that, and it was ⁓ absolutely fucked on launch. Luke: Mm. You killed people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tasha: ⁓ they're so bored. They should have just waited, legit, just wait, release something that's functional. Luke: Or go back to what you said earlier, cut back on features and polish the features you've got. If you cut back on features, yeah, you can, the less features you have, the more you can polish them. If you try and stretch it out and have lots of features, they're all going to be roping. Tasha: Yeah, make sure what you're throwing out actually works as well. Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Hahaha Tasha: Mm-hmm. Well, this is it, right? Like, so you can say, for example, big, games, AAA, like you read that in GTA, right? And hopefully, you say, OK, that's fine. You encouraged over time. You're going to listen to it. Give yourself a longer project time, a longer roadmap. This does not mean increase the amount of features. We're literally increasing this to cope with what we're doing. This does not mean add more. but that is quite often what happens that people add more because, well, we've got time, we can do this and we can do that. And it's like, no, no, no, that's not how this works. ⁓ it, behave yourselves. Matt: No. Luke: Yeah, we're ahead of time. Let's not stop over time. Hmm. Hmm. No, you're right. You're completely right. Hmm. I guess, I guess, I guess where it's gone now is that going back to what you talked about there, Matt, where people, we were socializing. So we'd work extra hours with socialize and after work we'd often go for a beer, even if it was still late. Like, and, and that's, there's a lot of people still doing that, like, and some of the younger generation, because they, they maybe not have kids yet and stuff like that. they're there. Matt: You Yes. Luke: They're a bit more free. The people they work with are the people they hang out with. And it's a real social thing. And when they go to the pub, they talk about the problems they're working on in work. And they talk about how to fix things. They're designing things together. And then when they do it the next day, they're... So it's kind of organic in some ways. I I've said that word a couple of times tonight, but it's kind of like that. And that's what happens. I think that's healthy, but it's not healthy for a long time. It's not something you can keep to, stick to. For passion, right? Tasha: I don't know. The whole drinking outside of work and socializing outside of work, that's a strange one. Well, socializing, right? So I socialized with my old team in Ubisoft. Outside of work, we would go rock climbing and dinner and stuff together. But there was a clear division of work and actually having mates in there. We still keep in touch through this day. The drinking outside of work with your coworkers, feel, is just that. Matt: Hmm. Luke: Forget the drinking, think socialising. Tasha: there's no separation there. You're literally just drinking your sorrows or commiserating with the work and overtime in the same place. There's no separation there. So it still feels like you're on the clock. And there have been times where I've done that and I've just come along like, I feel so exhausted because I haven't stepped away. The conversations are always still about work. You're not doing anything else but drinking. So how does that separate it? Luke: Hmm. Well, the good news is that alcohol is far less popular than it used to be. So the socializing in the games industry now is they might go to the pub, but it'd be one pint as they play board games together, one pint as they do a quiz night, one pint as they have long conversations and stuff, or they might not even go to the pub. They might go to a burger place. Tasha: I think our worlds must be different. I don't see board games, prisoners, and I see loads of pipes being consumed, but I don't see anything else. Matt: Well... Luke: But yeah, in the areas and teams I've been to recently, there's a lot of socializing that's not about getting drunk. Tasha: Okay. and Matt: There was, think, know, 26, 20, well, 24, 23, 24 years ago, there was nothing else to do apart from drink. Tasha: ⁓ Glasgow, I hear you. Yes. Luke: Yeah, but it's also like it's not cool to get drunk anymore and it's very expensive ⁓ to get drunk as well. Tasha: It is, that is the thing, it's what, six pound of pint? So you have what, yeah, like 10 drinks in, you spend like 70 quid maybe, 80? It's not cheap. Luke: It's crazy, Yeah. So, so not only is it, it's not cool, it's unhealthy and it's not cheap. So why wouldn't you just... Matt: If you're lucky, you know. ⁓ Tasha: Drain your sorrows commiserate. don't know people some people just like to Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Luke: chat with people. So, but going back to the point, I think a lot of people bring in that social element into working overtime with people. Tasha: It's not a compensation. That's not right. So we've kind of touched on it before, but the compensation for overtime and crunch doesn't line up with what you're asking. You want all the people to get to your deadline, working time, but now they're what is your compensation? Are you going to get time back in lieu? Are you going to get a pay rise? Are you going to get double time? No. Pizza? Beer? Sure. How does that equate? Luke: Yeah. so, yeah. So back in the back in my time at EA, the one of my jobs was to encourage people to work overtime and we would get buffet food in, we'd get quite good buffet food in and you turn up and you'd queue up and you'd have a plate and you'd get good food. And that would be one of the selling points. We're to get good food. We're not just getting shitty pizza. So was like, we're all in it. The developers are sticking about. So the QA you have to stick about as well because you got to You got to retest the things that they're fixing and stuff like that. We really want to get these numbers down to zero. We've got 500 bugs now. Let's see if we can get it down to 400. And I'm sort of selling them and I feel dirty. I feel grubby doing it feels wrong, but it was still my job to do that. And, and we did have fun doing it, but there was like, there was 20 % of me that just felt wrong. Like I'm convincing people to burn themselves a little bit. Um, and they, and they ended up getting like, Matt: Hehehehehe Do it. Luke: some days in Luz, they get some free holiday days, but they didn't get paid extra. was like, when we, when we finished the milestone, everyone gets two days off. Okay, cool. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be things like that. Yeah. Yeah. And it was grubby. It was wrong. ⁓ but we hit some big deadlines and the games were fairly good. Matt: Okay. Yep. Tasha: Is that it? For all that overtime and all that effort, that was it? Ugh, that's disgusting. Matt: Well, I mean... Tasha: That doesn't, that shouldn't justify it, Matt: I mean EA was... Luke: It doesn't justify at all. Matt: EA was at the heart of ⁓ overtime and crunch, becoming something that people... It used to be just the games industry kind of knew about it and we all just accepted the fact that it was a thing and we just go on with it. But it was the sort of ⁓ EA spouse, ⁓ the letter ⁓ that they wrote and published. Luke: Yeah, we did it. Matt: essentially that started to shine a spotlight on this. And I do think that that was instrumental in the culture starting to change. know, there's other, you know, examples of people started to highlight that and that, you know, in the social media age, that is easier and easier to do to go, actually, we're all burnt out because of the overtime. And it's, you know, if it if it has to happen at all, it has to be monitored incredibly carefully. It has to be for incredibly short periods of time because ultimately it doesn't actually work. It introduced, I did my podcast voice. you catch that? That's good, right? It doesn't actually work. that's, I don't know. Like let us know if you find that irritating or not, podcast view. I'm just, this is a, this is an open. Luke: Hmm, it doesn't actually work. Tasha: Yeah, it's been work. Luke: No, I like it. I like it. I like it. It was an observation. It wasn't a criticism. Matt: open call to anyone watching, listening, or a combination of the two. ⁓ The point is that overtime doesn't work. All of the evidence points to the fact that it introduces more issues than it actually fixes. So you put these extra hours in to try to solve problems that were introduced much earlier in the process. Luke: form. Matt: And all you do at that point is introduce more and more issues. It's like it's the equivalent of like your car breaking down and you trying to fix it by finding the biggest wrench that you can and repeatedly hitting yourself in the fucking nuts with it. It's just it's the absolute antithesis of a solution to a problem that you have introduced. Tasha: Correct. you Luke: Yeah. You just triggered a reminder for me there, Matt. I remember over the years, I've seen that people justify working overtime or working crunch because it took three weeks to sign a contract. ⁓ But hang on, it still took three weeks to the contract. Timelines move to when you sign the contract. We're already three weeks behind. No, you're not. No, you're not. We start at the start. No, we're three weeks behind. No. Matt: You know No. Yeah, we started at the start, but the contract took three weeks, which now means the start has moved, which means that we're now three weeks behind. Luke: Yeah. Yeah. Tasha: You're now behind, yeah. Christ almighty. Luke: Yeah, it's just like, so we're to be on the back foot for an entire project. Awesome. That's a great feeling. Really good anxiety for the entire team and me as the project manager producer. Thanks. Matt: Yeah. Tasha: But you're not going to breed animosity or resentment at all. Nah, not at all. Nah. Luke: That happens so often, that conversation. Matt: No, no, no, no, you're not going to damage the various different kinds of health of the people that you are supposed to be looking after who are in your charge ultimately. Luke: Hmm. Tasha: Yeah, so many health problems that people have come away with, like so many anxiety, stress and health related issues due to crunch over time. It's insane. Matt: Mm-hmm. Yep. Luke: and unnecessary stress. And then a lot of time, features change and things get cut and bugs get waved. You know, like I've put all that effort into that thing and you're just looking at it. Yeah. Matt: What's the, there's a lot of ⁓ studios moving to a four day week that have been pretty successful. Like what do you guys think about that as a potential? Yeah. Tasha: Yep. four day work week. Yeah, bring it on. Give me a three day work week if you can please. Luke: Yeah, I need a four day weekend. That's the plan for me. Yeah. Matt: Ha! Tasha: I do know what 100 % support the four day, I am nowhere near four days and I have one day to do life admin, do GP, like just some life admin where people are open when I am not having to work. Amazing, give me that three day week, give me a four day work week, that would be great. Luke: I would argue that we don't even have seven days as a week. We make up whatever weeks we want. Tasha: I'm not sure how that would work. But legit, you could be so much more productive in three days than you can in five. Because you're sitting there, by the time you get to Wednesday, you're like, so done. Thursday, Friday, you're so dead. It's like, why are we still here? Why are we not? You're ready for the weekend. Luke: We should just have weekdays that are called one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. And we work five days and then five days off. Tasha: I think you could still do five on five off if you just had one to choose your words. Matt: I'm listening. Luke: Yeah, five on five on. I don't want to call them Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I think that's got a bad stigma. Let's just get rid of the names. Just get rid of the names completely. Don't need it. Make up new names. Ask AI to give me new names for the days of the week. Don't need it. It's great. We're so tied down with what we believe is facts. No, it's not. These are just made up names. Matt: Ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Mmm. I I know I can, I do remember like Wednesday is named after Odin, like Odin's day. Thursday is named after Thor. Like, so they're just, I mean, these are all just fucking, everything's made up anyway. Just change it. It's fine. Exactly. Borders were sort of just, mean, you know, England, like to a certain extent, you know, but borders are just, borders are all just made up anyway. And England is to blame for that. Tasha: Yeah. Luke: Mmm. Yeah. Mmm. Just like countries, they're just bits of land, they're just names. Caused a bit of chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Matt: Yeah. I feel like we've drifted somewhat from the topic, which as far as I'm concerned, means that I'm ready to bend this off. But go on, Tash. Closing thoughts, Tash. Hey. Tasha: We have, but. Well, I promote the four day work week. I absolutely promote it. There are so many benefits to having a four day work week. Your people be far more productive because they have an extra day. They'll be happy to have the day to spend with four children, doing their admin. Embrace it. We're not designed to be your workhorses. We're designed to kind of live. Luke: No, I like the idea of a four day work week. And what we should do is we should crunch for all four days as well. I that's really important. Now close the topic. Now close the topic. Tasha: ⁓ look, you have to read it, didn't you? Matt: BWAH! Tasha: It was this close to telling you to shovel. Matt: I'm with Luke, I'm with Luke. Four days, but it's a 12 hour shift. In fact, it's four days on, one day off, four days on. There's your four day working week. Luke: Yeah, four days crunch. That's crunch. Everyone works double time because we're working four days. Tasha: Do know what? I could crunch. Luke: Yeah, boom. Tasha: I could crunch, but what I'd be crunching is your body into a ball. Luke: Just crunching my head into your pocket. Matt: Ha ha ha! Tasha: Yeah, come see me after my championships. Matt: Ha ha ha ha! Luke: Yeah. So yeah, that's what I believe. Matt: ⁓ good luck with that. All right. Fantastic. Closing thoughts on overtime, crunch, et cetera. Anybody? Tash, Luke, what do you think? Tasha: It's not necessary. It's not needed. It's detrimental to health. You might get a good quality at the end of it, but it doesn't justify how you get there. Better planning doesn't mean shove more features and work on what you've got. Make it robust, make a good quality, properly assess your scale and scope. Take a slower approach to releases. Appreciate that there'll be things that you can't move out, but make it somehow fit. If you have to reduce your scope down your releases to make something better than do so, but Forcing crunch only affects your team worse. Luke: Agree. And if you are doing overtime, it should be healthy overtime. That's optional, volunteered. Tasha: Mm-hmm. Matt: Yeah, lovely stuff. on that note, actually, there's a very good clip of you talking about backwards planning that is available on all of our social medias, wherever they may be. Lovely stuff. All right. Yeah, I'll put a graphic in somewhere here. Sorry. Right. Luke: You can see it up here, right? Up here. Sit up there. Yeah, up there. I can't get my hand where your head is, Matt, but that'd be where it is. Yeah. Matt: Moving True or, Flay's three games. Two are real. One is fake. Currently the reigning champion. I will make sure that we do the play along in the YouTube channel. So if you do want to play along, go to the YouTube channel, which I think is at GameProdPod. yeah, play along. True or Flays, game number one. Tash, Luke, are you ready? Luke: No. Tasha: We're not done with this part of the show already. Matt: You Luke: It's great start. Matt: I will brook no descent as far as this segment is concerned. It is the best. ⁓ Tasha: Bye. Luke: At the bond of recount. Tasha: All right, get on with it then. Come on. Luke: This is the only reason Matt does the podcast. He doesn't really want to listen to us, he just wants this bit. He just wants the winning. Tasha: I know, right? Matt: That's pretty much the only reason I do the podcast. Yeah. I don't really give a shit about games industry or production challenges. I just want to come up with stupid fucking game ideas and force you to listen to them. That is my fucking raise on debt as far as this is concerned. All right, fine. Game number one. Tasha: Ha! Luke: Yeah. That's all it is. Life goes. Tasha: Adios! haha Luke: Falsse. Matt: Ha ha ha ha! Tasha: Yeah, let's just call it out now. I'm too done with it. Luke: Yeah, we should. Pollux, it's false. Next. Matt: Okay. ⁓ Game number two. All right, hang on. Come on, I spend like, I spend up to five minutes doing this. No, no, I write these all. I do these all myself, man. These are all genuinely, ⁓ absolutely and utterly made up by me. Game number one. Wax heads. Luke: Game number two. It's true. Tasha: True. Luke: Four minutes with your agent. Tasha: Yeah. Luke: Okay. Matt: Waxheads is a cozy punk narrative sim about working in a struggling record store. Chat to quirky customers with unique tastes, explore a handcrafted record collection, fall in love with bands and their drama, or just slack off with your colleagues. Whatever gets everyone's groove back. That's game number one, Waxheads. Game number two, everything is crab. The animal evolution road, I ask. Luke: Yeah Matt: The animal evolution roguelike hunt, flee, scavenge and thrive in a living ecosystem. Choose from 125 plus evolutions and specializations for unique creature combinations in every run. Adapt to survive the natural curve in order to beat carcinization or get Darwin trying. Game number two, everything is crab. Game number three, Drayton incorporated. Luke: Wow. Matt: Newspapers don't write themselves and they don't print themselves either. You've been hired to manage the factory that does just that. Walk the floor, keep the team working hard and get the news out on time. Can you keep the lines rolling or will you have to stop the press? Game number three, Drayton, Incorporated. Luke: See, Tash, number three sounds so crap. It's probably a real one. Tasha: Yeah everything, the last two just sound so bored in. Luke: What was the crap there? crap one was just a bit meh. Tasha: It's weird. don't know. So what, we trying to find the false one or the true one? Luke: I like the way we ask the rules every week as well. Like, what is this game again, Matt? Which one's false? Is it two false, one real? Matt: There was, I believe there was only one episode where I got it the wrong way around, to be fair. But in doing so, I have confused you. So I will reiterate, three games, two are real, one is fake. Luke: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Tasha: Hahaha Luke: Yes. Okay. Yes, okay, so we've got to find the doozy. Tasha: One is we're gonna find the fake one. Matt: Yes. Tasha: I don't know everything is crap. Luke: That's gonna be crap, because it sounds like a crap game. ⁓ Tasha: Wahahahaha Matt: Final answer? Luke: No. Tasha: No, I don't know. All of the above? Luke: Can we just like tell us which one's the fake one? We'll go with that one then we win. Tasha: Right, look, wait, look, we'll pick one each, right? So you pick a number, and I'll pick a number. Matt: Uhhh Luke: Let's try something else, Matt, I want you to look into the camera and say the titles of the games. Matt: interesting. What do you think this is going to help with exactly? Luke: Just do what you're Tasha: Just do it. ⁓ Matt: Alright, game number one, Wax Herds. Game number two, Everything is Crab. Game number three, Drayton Incorporated. Luke: Oh, he didn't phase task. What do you think about his poker face? He's not blinked. Yeah. Blunked, blanked. Mice, mice's. Sheeps. Tasha: Mmm. Matt: Blunk. Blunk. Blunked. Mace. Shoop. Yeah, the plural of sheeps is shoop. Tasha: Blanksees? Luke: Shoes is... Earrings is... Shoes. Shoes. Tasha: Shoops. Matt: Yeah, the plural of sheep is shoops. Shoops! Tasha: Look at the shoe! Look at these choupsies! Matt: Back in the room, pick a game, come on. Luke: Back in the room. I think I'm going to go with the crap one. The one that sounds really dull is the printing press. Tasha: Choo-toos! Okay, you're gonna go with the printing press. I, I, do you know what? Just because one, I'm going to say wax heads. Luke: Yeah. It does sound...dull. Which one you do? Tasha: I'm gonna say wax heads is fake. Luke: Is that the first one? Tasha: We are fighting the fake one, right? Yeah, I'm gonna say that's fake. Luke: Yes. Let's go with that then, because the crab one sounds relatively meh, but probably is a game. The paper pressing one, whatever it is, sounds so dull, it probably is a game, which leaves the other one out that we forgot. Maybe it's that one. Game number one is the doozy. Go, Matt. Tasha: Okay. Waxheads, I'm Rumbunbawaxheads. Matt: Oh, you were so close. It's actually Drayton Incorporated. It's the newspaper one. What was the fake one this time? Oh, it took everything in my power to fucking keep my poker face, guys, because you were absolutely... You were nanoseconds away. Luke: Wow. Tasha: ⁓ Luke: Wow, that was good. Tasha: I did say to go with one each. I said I was going with one and... Matt: Yeah, well. Luke: I'll do... yeah, well let's do that then. Let's go with one each. I'll go with the paper one to actually go with the first one. Tasha: Yeah, there you go. Matt: wish. I wish. I didn't make the rules. ⁓ OK, I did. But I ⁓ enforce them. ⁓ ⁓ Yeah, well, don't we all. It ⁓ gets worse as you get older as well, Taj. ⁓ ⁓ so sorry. But yeah, wax heads is real. I think that was out this ⁓ Luke: You did. But that was your previous map. It's a different map. Yeah. Tasha: Don't live in the shadow of your former self. ⁓ Luke: He's a glowing shadow at the moment. Matt: possibly this week, Everything is Crab, it's also fairly recently released as well. Drayton Incorporated is the one that I just completely made up. Tasha: Man, your imagination's bored in, if that's what it came up with. Matt: ⁓ you say that, however, or was it a tactical move on my part to throw you off the scent? Tasha: No, don't say it was tactical. You just sat there and went, ⁓ look, a newspaper. Newspaper frame. Luke: He's like, this sounds incredibly dull. They won't, they're going to think this is a real game. Matt: That's exactly what I was thinking when I wrote it. I will write something that sounds so mundane that they will just think it's a real game. Because when I was... Yeah. ⁓ Luke: What? Some of the games have been real. Tasha: Next, it's going to be a game about a tape measure. Matt: Maybe. Interesting. Yeah. Luke: Do you know what we should do? We should actually, we should do a session where we play all the games that we guessed incorrectly for a laugh. Matt: Yeah. Okay. I do want to I want to start kind of no, I don't want to make I just want to make them. I don't want to play them. Tasha: No, why? Luke: She's like, I don't want to play games. I don't like games. Tasha: I just want to go to the gym and lift the heavy stuff and go home. Luke: Alright, let's go lift some heavy weights with Tash if you play the crappy games. Matt: Fair enough. Yes. All right, cool. I like to straddle both worlds, so to speak. I go to the gym and I lift heavy things, but I also sit on my ass and play video games a lot as well. Moving on. Luke: Ying and the Yang. I bet you do. Matt: ⁓ dub ⁓ the, round it all off by trying to name the episode based on the conversation that we had. ⁓ And no, we can't have cat on the roof or whatever it is you pitched earlier. Tasha: Yeah, but that was the only fun thing though, that one's like, what's our catchphrase? Luke: was on the roof. Cat was on the roof but you missed it. Matt: We've had cats in the cupboard, so we can't have more cat related. Yeah. Tasha: from the roof. Fine. Luke: We can only have one cat for the whole... What if we get to like 300 episodes back? Are you going to be looking back and saying, well, we can't do that topic again? Are you? Okay. I need 300 unique topics that we have to cancel. Wow. Matt: Yes. Tasha: Ha Matt: I've said this repeatedly, I'll say it again, but my attitude as far as the games industry hot topic is concerned is one and done. Yeah. One and done. Luke: One and done. Tasha: I dub thee one and done. Luke: One and done. One and done. Matt: No notes. What? Luke: So the... Tasha: No nuts? Fantastic! Great! Matt: Ha ha ha ha ha Luke: So this episode will shall be called No Catchphrase. ⁓ No Catchphrase. Matt: No catchphrases? I think that we need catchphrases. I think that it will endear us to people. Luke: She's saying. Matt: I don't know. got no fucking idea. Luke: No. Tasha: I'm plenty endearing, what earth do you talk about? Luke: I think it just happened and you go, oh look, we didn't force it. Tasha: You Matt: My... I think you have to force, I think you have to force catchphrase to start with, otherwise it won't stick. What do mean why? Yeah. Luke: No. That's such a marketing way of thinking. But that's not creative, that's just elbowing it. Yeah. Matt: Marketing is creative, but it's like it's enforced creativity. Tasha: and force-creed mandatory creativity. Luke: You will be creative Stevie Wonder! Matt: mandatory K2. You will. ⁓ Tasha: Waaaa Luke: Maybe there's the episode named Spinny Heads. Spinny Heads. I was spinning. Wavy heads. Bobble heads. Tasha: Bubblehead. Matt: Spinny heads? That was wavy heads, not spinny heads. Spinny heads is like that. No, it's not bobble heads, that's trademarked. I don't think we'd get away with that. Tasha: Weavy heads and bobble heads. Luke: Yeah, I know. Just wobbling heads. Tasha: You Matt: If you are listening to this, then we were... Is this thing on? I'm happy to go with... Is this thing on? I'm happy to go with one and done. Luke: I was just still recording. Are we still on? Is this thing on? ⁓ Tasha: Yeah. I dub thee, is this thing on? Luke: Is this thing on? Tasha: One and done. Luke: One and done. Matt: Alright, I dub the one and done. Tasha: and Done! Luke: Done. This is done. Matt: All right. OK, that's enough of that nonsense. Right. All that is left to do is to thank Luke Timms, Tash Natani, and you, glorious listener, for tuning in. Feel free to reach out to us at GamePodPod at proton.me or follow us on Linktree or whatever the fuck Linktree does. Do a Linktree. There you go. Luke: Thank you. It's a page of links. It doesn't even look like a tree. Tasha: We're, we have a thing, we follow the trends, but we're past the millennial stage, just like, whee. Do what I like to. Matt: Duelinktree at Game Prod Pod. I liked her last album. Luke: Yeah, like and subscribe. Matt: No? All right, cool. We'll be back next time with more topics, maybe a production challenge, more true or flays, of which I am the reigning champion and much, more. We will see you next time. Don't be like, don't be bad losers. Luke: Click the bell. Uhhhh Matt: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Game Prod Pod. going to be talking ⁓ games industry hot topic, and we're chatting about work-life balance and crunch culture. ⁓ Then we're going to play a quick game of true or flays. Will ⁓ intrepid producers find the pig at the disco that is the ⁓ fake that I completely made up? Then we'll round it all off by to name the episode. ⁓ And that's it for this ⁓ Fortnite episode. There we go, lovely stuff. Welcome.