speaker-0: So, you know, as they were kind of cutting me open, the surgeon said to me, Lean forward and pull out your baby And I was like, Sorry, what? But I was like, ⁓ my god And obviously I was a bit drugged up but I leant forward and I pulled him out, which was amazing.

speaker-1: Hello and welcome back to Ready Birth Go, the podcast where I sit down with someone to talk honestly about birth, the good, the complicated and the completely unexpected. I'm Carly Sandland, doula and founder of the Doula Club. You might know my guest today as one of the UK's best known voices in wellness. Madeleine Shaw is a nutritionist and Sunday Times bestselling author. But today she's here as a mum of two with two births that could not have been more different. Her first was fast and unmedicated. Her second was a planned cesarean with a breech baby and nothing about it went as she expected. What I loved about this conversation is how honest Madeline is, about the pressure we put on ourselves as mothers, about how hard the recovery really was, and about what it takes to look after yourself when every bit of your energy is going to everybody else. She's warm, she's thoughtful, and she holds nothing back. Here's my conversation with Madeline Shaw.

speaker-0: We've had two babies and two really different births. So with my first, I had a natural birth, as in like a vaginal delivery. It was actually a really amazing birth. I went into labor the night before and was getting contractions, did all the things, had the bath, you know, like and then I was suddenly like, this is too much, I've got to go in. Went into hospital and I was eight centimetres dilated. So I was quite far on, I I know. So for

speaker-1: When it started to what time you went into the hospital, how long was that?

speaker-0: Maybe ten hours. Wow, okay. Quite is that quite quick?

speaker-1: Very good for a first.

speaker-0: I was doing a lot of reflexology leading up to it. Okay. So I was like, let's get this baby out on time. Yeah. And then yeah, I went into labor and pushed for about 40 minutes and then he came out, my first. And yeah, had a really amazing experience. I I had a little bit of tearing, so I did have a few stitches. But I feel like All in all, it was a really great birth. And I think just before it I feel like so many people had told me about their birth stories. And you know, it's really good to be informed, right? Because it doesn't always turn out that way. Yeah. And I was really lucky, but I had an amazing experience. I remember just like holding my son and being just like I couldn't sleep that night. You know how they're like, go rest. I was just like, Yeah This is the best feeling. And you get that like

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: Endorphins, don't you, where you just feel so great and that you could speak on. ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah, the hormones are wild. I also think that sort of wired feeling is that adrenaline still there from the birth. And even though you might not have slept for, I don't know, a few days in some people's cases, you're like, I can't, I can't sleep. can't sleep.

speaker-0: A friend of ours bought us like rotisserie chicken and a pecan pie. And I just remember pecan pie, like holding my baby being like, This is so great.

speaker-1: That's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's talk a bit more about this one. Second birth. So, taking back to the day it all started, what were you doing?

speaker-0: So I had a planned C section because he was the other way around. So this was a completely different birth. Yes. You know, I was so ready for my second natural or not I know natural birth sometimes sounds wrong because they're, you know, they're all natural in their own way. But ⁓ so I had a really different experience. I had a planned C section a week before due date. He was a really big baby and an upside down baby. So this was really different. Like I went in knowing I was gonna have a baby that day. Because I was like so low risk, I was the last of the day. So I was five o'clock and I wasn't allowed to eat or drink until then. So that was quite hard. I feel like eating was reasonably hard. Not drinking water was so difficult. Like I was so thirsty.

speaker-1: Yeah, were they not sips of water?

speaker-0: No I was only allowed a little bit just before I went in. I was really, really thirsty. Yeah. Not surprised. And you're just also you don't know what to do because you don't know when your time slot's going to be. It was a really different experience. It was magical, but it was different. But anyway, I went into the theatre. Mm-hmm. It was an all woman theatre. And they were amazing. They were like, What playlist do you want to play? It was a really cool experience. Anyway, lay back, they put in

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-0: Is an epidural? What's the technical is a technical

speaker-1: often people might end up in theatre having a caesarean they may have already had an epidural if they have then the anaesthetist will top it up if not then you would have a spinal it's the same injection in your back it just acts much quicker the spinal

speaker-0: Yeah, no, it was crazy. So it was literally all hands and deck. It was like, In, lie down. Anyway, so, you know, as they were kind of cutting me open, the surgeon said to me, Lean forward and pull out your baby And I was like, Sorry, what? Wow Yeah, so I literally And the real

speaker-1: Yeah. This hadn't been discussed beforehand because lots of It's a thing that more and more women are having what's called a maternal assisted cesarean or certainly requesting them and it is much more possible in an elective or know if you know it's happening. So it wasn't discussed.

speaker-0: And I I I felt I didn't even wash my hands. Like not that my hands were particularly dirty, but I was like, ⁓ my God. Like anyway it was a real shock and obviously I was a bit drugged up, but I leant forward and I pulled him out, which was amazing. And yeah, and did the like skin on skin, the f like the first feed. And I had that same with my first, that sort of like straight on the boob, straight kind of you know, sucking on the nipple, which I think was a really nice experience. I'd say the recovery of the C-section was so much harder. I really didn't I didn't know that much. Of course so many people told me like, ⁓ it's really hard, but I don't think I really understood just like going to the loo, you'd have to have someone lift you up off the sofa, you know, rolling from one side to side, holding your baby, lifting your baby. I think I didn't quite understand how difficult those two to three weeks would be after was I think with my first birth because it was so good, it was so easy. I was like off walking the next day. I think I had so much more freedom and I found the recovery so much hard with a s with the C-section. I just I don't think I had prepared myself for just the debilitatingness of not having I don't know, just that freedom to like sit up and go to the loo anyone. So it wasn't even like I was trying to like run a marathon. I was just Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that I found yeah, I think I found that quite challenging to be honest. Those first

speaker-1: When did you first find out baby was breech?

speaker-0: ⁓ really early on, like halfway through. And then they just monitored me. And also because he was quite big, I had scans every four weeks. Which was quite Yeah, it's nice to have that scan and you you feel reassured and you feel you know, you can kind of check in. But yeah, they were constantly checking me. Yeah. The jar because

speaker-1: Okay. It was, yeah. Often, clients will always say, ⁓ know, baby's breached. I'm like, well, baby's not breached yet. Baby just hasn't turned yet, you know, hasn't turned yet. And in a lot of cases, baby will turn. But obviously, pregnancy starts getting further along and obviously you're having more scans and baby isn't turning. And then, you know, by kind of 34 weeks, if baby is, you know, sort of the other way around, they're less likely to turn. Do all the things to try to turn.

speaker-0: Yeah yeah yeah. Did you

speaker-1: Bye.

speaker-0: I didn't. I was kind of just, I don't know. I was like, this is just the journey it's gonna be. This is the way he wants to be. Like I did have a lot of acupuncture and reflexology through it, but I just kind of felt quite at peace with it. Like I wasn't sort of resisting it. My mum always said to me, like, it's not your birth, it's the baby's birth. And that always stuck with me. I was just like, you know what, this is not about me, it's about what's best for the baby. So I I guess like I just always was talking to the doctors and the midwifes about what was the right thing. So that was kind of my like thought process through it. So I didn't particularly do anything specific and I felt that that was kind of the right yeah.

speaker-1: So for you, he was in the position he was supposed to be in, that's what you felt.

speaker-0: that that's what I felt for me. I did feel like I really needed to change it. And I almost felt like you know, they sort of say like happiness is like accepting what you have, not resisting to what's happening in your life. And I think I was just trying to allow for what was happening rather than change it or micromanage it or anything like that. So yeah, I just and actually it was fine. Apart from the recovery, it was a great experience and I feel Like I had such a good I felt really lucky I had such a good team behind me.

speaker-1: Did they offer you an ECV? So you know the external sphalic version where they at 37 weeks tried to turn the baby. I know you'd said that you were like, no, baby's in the place they went to be, but did any of these things come up for you?

speaker-0: They did, but to be honest, once they kind of had said this is what we think's the best thing to do, I was just quite set on it. So I just felt like I put my head around it. So I was like this is what I want to do. It just felt like the right thing. I can't explain more than just it was just like an intuitive

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean our instinct is so powerful and I think that instinct is even more heightened when we're pregnant and we know, we know what feels right I think for our body and our baby. Did they talk to you about vaginal breech birth?

speaker-0: Not particular. I think because he was also very big like eight and a half pounds when born, but just like big heads and he was still ninety five percentile now. So he was just constantly ninety five percentile like the whole pregnancy.

speaker-1: What was he measuring at? A lot of considerations are there when talking through vaginal breech birth and, you know, obviously bigger the baby and things like that.

speaker-0: Exactly. And they were sort of talking about the risk of brain damage and things like that. So I was just a bit like no I really didn't want to do to obviously have that. I mean no one wants to have that. But yeah, it just felt like it was the best option for him and that birthday. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, amazing. Because wasn't there something in your first birth, your first pregnancy where they were saying your son was going to be really big and that really freaked you out? And then actually he was seven pounds something.

speaker-0: 38 weeks. I think I went to the GP, which I didn't have the same timeline as with my first, but he was like, ⁓ it's a 10 pound baby for sure. I think I just showed really big. So I totally freaked out about it, like two weeks before. I think that's why I was on the reflexology, like to push him out before he got too big. But he turned out to be he was like seven pounds in a bit or something. Yeah, yeah. Quite like a normal birth weight.

speaker-1: Those scans are notoriously inaccurate.

speaker-0: But to be fair, he's been pretty on his percentile. So they were quite right for for this one. For this one. But I think it is, yeah, it's so nerve-wracking, birth. And you don't know when it's gonna come, you're waiting. And I think you're so sensitive to anything anyone says, aren't you? You sort of cling on to something and then you sort of let it rattle in your brain. And it's not anyone's fault, you have to be sort of strong enough to take on people's views. But yeah, I definitely got thrown by that, that's for sure. I think the last two weeks I was like, yeah, Googling everything and trying to figure out what the plan was for me.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Has the head ever really got stuck? Can I just go back to your birth you just had four months ago and just the picking your baby out yourself, I think more detail on this, this is incredible. So there was no discussion beforehand because I know so many women would ask for this and want this and would be told they can't do it.

speaker-0: Yeah, I didn't even know it was a thing, if I'm honest. Like I had someone on a podcast talk about how they did it vaginally, but I'd never heard of it in a C section kind of situation. But I'm obviously not an expert and I don't know, but it all happened like in a split second. Like I was lying there and then they said, lean forward. And I think it was like my surgeon's signature move. Like it was like her thing that she likes to do. So yeah, and I think obviously she felt like it was safe. It was something that she could do. I mean, it all happened very quickly. And I think it was like a day later that I was like, did that happen? Like, did I do that? Because I was kind of thrown. So I to be honest, I can't even remember. I know it did happen, but it all happened in quite a blur. And I think I was obviously still on a lot of drugs. But they sort of propped me up and then my arms sort of went they pulled down the tent and then I put my arms and then I sort of lift. So you left out of my belly.

speaker-1: Lift it about off your belly and straight onto your chest.

speaker-0: Yeah. Wow. It was pretty like, Do you want me to clean him up before? And I was like, No, not at all. No. Yeah, it just it just happened and like I went with it. But like I was not prepared for it. I wasn't imagining that was gonna happen. I didn't even know it was like a thing. And whenever I tell people that I don't think it's that common.

speaker-1: Opera. Not at all and I know women request it and it's declined, you know, and it's so the fact that you hadn't even chatted about it and they were like... Baby out, it's amazing.

speaker-0: No not at all. ⁓ It was really special and it feels like an empowering, cool thing to do. Definitely.

speaker-1: And then when baby came onto your chest, how long? Like was baby then just on your chest? Was the cord cut while baby was on you?

speaker-0: They put him on me and then we popped him onto the breast. With my first, he actually wiggled his way down, but with my second we kind of popped him on and then he kind of latched really easily. And that was yeah, that was amazing. I felt like it still felt like a really even though it was obviously quite clinical in like a sur surgery studio. Yeah. It feel quite magical and it still had that sort of beautiful I mean, look, you're always hoping for your little happy ending. with your baby and I I definitely was waiting for that first cry you know, you're waiting for that first cry and you're waiting for that first sound. But yeah, no, it felt really special. And even though he was covered in goo and stuff, he still looked very cheap. It's funny how you think your baby looks so gorgeous and you look back and you're like, ⁓ whoa But then on your mind you're like ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah, me and my husband always say that. It's like, I it's the hormones basically. They're there. So you think your baby's beautiful and then you look back at pictures, you're like, they actually look like a frog. Did you write a birth plan for your, for your caesarean birth?

speaker-0: Not at all. No, I don't think I wrote both either of them. Really. But I think probably what this all stemmed for was before I had my first son I had a miscarriage. Yeah. And I was pregnant and then I started bleeding when I was like eleven weeks. And then I went into labour, went to the hospital and like had to have like morphine because it was so painful. And then I had to have they were like pulling clots out of me and then I had to go and have the surgery as well the next day. So it was like a really traumatic experience and I think because of that I went like from probably what a lot of people would have imagined me of being like she's gonna have a home birth with like omning to like I was like I'm in the hospital not surgeons but you know like I really wanted in the labour ward, like I wasn't in the birthing pool, I was in the labour ward because I think, you know, when you go through a miscarriage and know it's so common for so many people, you sort of know what could go wrong and I think You know, it was quite a traumatic miscarriage in the sense of like the bleeding, then the scan saying there was no heartbeat, then the labour, you know, I'd never heard anyone go into labor when they had a miscarriage. I didn't know that that was a thing. And then, you know, you think it's sort of like you call up the hospital and, you know, they say like, ⁓ you've got to book it in. It was just really it was a quite a hard week and I think that really threw me. On like what my experience for what my birth was going to be like. I think if I hadn't had that experience, I think I would have been like, this is my birth plan, and I'm gonna listen to this music and be in the pool and you know, breathe the baby out. Whereas I think because I'd had this quite difficult experience, it wasn't that I had a lot of fear around it. I was just like, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I want to be like with all the medical team, with the blood transfusion if I need it and the this and the that yeah yeah and if I think it was a bit of a reality awakening of like you know really unfortunately things can go wrong and not the way you want it to. So I think I'd never had a birth plan with either of them just because I thought, you know what? Let's just listen to the professionals. You know, they know what's best. Of course, you know, intuition and you know I can communicate how I feel very easily but I just felt like I wanted to not have a plan because I think I would have got fixated on it and then, you know, maybe it wouldn't have gone to plan. So Yeah. So they say to have a birth plan, but my birth plan was just show up and get and walk home and get home with a baby. That was my flight.

speaker-1: through it. Yeah, I mean you have an experience like you did with the miscarriage and it sounds very traumatic. I think it does change how you approach any future pregnancies and birth, you know.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think it well I think you know, motherhood has opened my heart up to the most amount of love, but also the most amount of fear. I don't think I had fear before I was a mother. I just didn't really think about I think that especially not so much now, but at the beginning of when you have a baby, all the intrusive thoughts that come in and like, you know, like I wasn't prepared for that. And I wasn't even prepared the second time around. I'd forgotten how you're like walking down the street and you're like Imagine if that van crashed into me and killed me and my baby. And you're like, whoa, like you're like, that is so extreme. You know, you're just literally pushing the pram down the road. It's like this heightened sense of fear of looking after another human. I was not prepared for it. Both times I think it's just that shell shock to the system because you love them so much. Yeah. That there is that fear they are really precious and they are really little and you do have to take special care. with them. So I feel like that was a big thing for me. I wasn't really fearful of anything, I don't think, before.

speaker-1: Do you think you're more anxious now, generally, or not?

speaker-0: I probably never experienced anxiety before, but I also think probably social media is also makes me anxious. People will talk about anxiety and I'd be like, What the hell is that? And now I'm like, ⁓ I totally get it. I think motherhood's probably given me more fear than anxiety. I wouldn't say I'm naturally an anxious person, but I think I'm definitely that mother that will check that they're breathing. Like even my oldest who's eight, I'm like, is he breathing?

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean I still do it with my 13 year old. Yeah.

speaker-0: ⁓ it's just that like as if like on that moment that would save their life, you know, in that second. But yeah, I think I've definitely got that like, are you breathing? Are you okay? Instinct that I don't know, like you said, I don't know if it leaves you. My mum says that she still worries about us and we're all like fully grown adults. So I probably feel like I've just got to accept it's part of life. But yeah, I don't think I feel anxiety about the future, but I do feel that like okay. I am your mother and I have to take care of you. And like yeah, that li I've definitely got that lioness mother in me.

speaker-1: It's amazing, isn't it, how that just comes out the minute your baby's there and this tiger to protect this. It doesn't go away. Just going back to your, so after the C-section, you said the recovery really shocked you. What was it that, I mean, obviously, I know it's very different, but what felt so different about it compared to your first?

speaker-0: Anyway. think it was just the lack of being able to do anything. So obviously it's really hard having a newborn because you're learning how to feed them. You're learning each other, right? You're teaching him how to feed, you're teaching him how to sleep, you're teaching everything. But I feel like on top of that, to not be able to move felt really hard. So I think it was like just lying on the sofa I'd have to get someone to hold my arm. It'd be that like You cling on and then you're pulling up to sort of get up because you're trying not to use your stomach muscles. Going to the loo was awful. I mean, you know, that first poo for anyone, whether you've given whichever way you've given birth is awful. And you're taking latch lo what's it called? And then at one point I was like, I don't need it. And I was like really constipated. I just feel like your digestive system is kind of like off. like you can't go to the loo and even in the night like so like if he was crying like even though he was next to me like I couldn't just like roll over very easily and pick him up. So it was like everything I needed help with and I found that as a very independent person very difficult. I just felt kind of r relying on other people and to be fair I had so much support. My mum was there most days. I've got an amazing husband. Even my Sun helped. It's not like I was by myself in any way, but I just felt like I couldn't do what these normal things like standing up picking up your baby. Like I wasn't trying to like be super mum and make a I don't know, souffle. I was just like trying to do like the everyday basic things and I felt like I just found like I couldn't do them and that was I I really struggled with that. And also, yeah, just the pain of the incision. But I was amazed how quickly it heals.

speaker-1: I was going to say, so how long did you feel like that for? That sort of struggle with the movement and the loo and everything.

speaker-0: Say it was two weeks, but I remember like the midwife came, I think two days after surgery and just took off the bandage, and it's like all sealed. Like in my mind, it was gonna be like leaking, like like blood and pus. And it's like it just was a scar. Like I I honestly was so amazed by it. Like it was so incredible. Like The dis dissolvable stitches is the one I had. I don't know if that's what everyone has, but like I just couldn't believe it when she peeled off. Like I was like What what is that? Like I just imagine it was still open for some reason. Anyway, I was really lucky. It never opened up. I didn't have any kind of where I had to go back into hospital or anything.

speaker-1: Did they tell you what to look out for?

speaker-0: Yeah, they definitely did. And yeah, I feel like my post nasal care was great, but I was really lucky, like I didn't have any kind of issues with it. But yeah, definitely like being really tender over the top. And then also like the horrible little bulge as well that goes over the scar. I was not prepared for that one. Like I was like, what is this? Like this extra like roll of fat. I know I know it's not that. I know it's like inflammation, but I was kind of like, yeah, it was definitely like a bit of a shock, sort of in that recovery period of time. I mean, it's probably not good to look in the mirror at your belly during the first month anyway. No, I think it was the pain was really hard the first few days. Like I r I was taking the max painkillers and there'd be days where I just forget to take them and then it would get to the end of the day and I'd be like, 'cause They say stay on top of it, stay on it. You're Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you just forget, like, you know, suddenly you're two PM in the middle of the day because, you know, it's that blur of the first kind of few weeks. So anyone listening, definitely keep on top of your mess. Yes, yeah. You you think that you're doing better, but actually you really do need to keep taking them because the pain would just suddenly come on and I'd be like, And of course it takes time for the painkillers to work. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. What would your other tips be to somebody having a caesarean?

speaker-0: Definitely stay on top of it. If you can, if you've got an amazing mum, sister, mother-in-law, and I know I'm saying women, I know men can also be helpful, but there's something about a woman and a woman helping each other at the beginning. I think, especially when you're talking about your constipation and your bleeding and stuff. My mum stayed with us for the first two weeks. And that was really like I feel like I couldn't have done it without her. So I think if you can have anyone, just those first two weeks are the hardest. A hundred percent have everything cooked already. So, like, even if it's just frozen meals that you heat up, like don't be too precious on eating a perfect meal all the time. But I think having time to cook from scratch is just not going to happen. So, like having meals that you can just like reheat, the hunger of breastfeeding is so intense. So, like All the snacks, all the like nuts, seeds, you know, like things that you can just like grab, lots of fresh fruit already cut up, because I just got so hungry, like all the time, like those first that first month. So yeah, drinking lots of water, eating loads of food. And I think it's also just reminding yourself that it feels so all encompassing in that moment.

speaker-1: thirsty.

speaker-0: And then you get out of it and you're like, whoa. And you're in this next chapter, in this next phase. And you do miss it. It's like you're fighting for them sleeping through the night or them feeding for longer, whatever. And then you get to that stage, but then they don't fall asleep in your arms because they're not newborns anymore. So I think it's just enjoying the moment and it's so much easier said than done because it's such it is a really hard time. I don't think anyone can underestimate what a difficult time it can be, especially if you've got like a colicky baby or a baby that doesn't latch.

speaker-1: Your first son, had colic, right?

speaker-0: Re Yeah, like ri he had to go on medication. He was so bad. He would like latch, scream, pull off, scream. Like 'cause he would drink and it would hurt him. Yeah. So this newborn chapter was amazing in terms of he fed really well. You know, of course he woke in the night, but like a normal baby, not like a screaming, crying baby all the time. So I feel like I've had a nicer newborn experience this time around, just because yeah, I think when your milk is hurting your baby, it feels like the worst thing. And I know it's not my fault or something I did wrong. It was just the way his digestive system works, yeah. It was really, really challenging and my heart goes out to anyone who does have the refluxy colicky baby because it is a different experience to the experience of other people with newborns. Like I don't think that you can compare them. I remember I'd see other mums cafes and I'd be like, whoa, like, you know, my son, my first, wouldn't even lie flat in a cot. It because it would trigger him so much. So it was like I would just be like in the carrier. Like, ⁓ I would do like twenty-five K steps in the carrier. That was like all day long. That was like my life. But yeah, recovery from C-section.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

speaker-0: support water drugs and just remembering it's a phase and like you know I remember so distinctly like day five just being like ⁓ my god like I don't think I'm gonna get through this with like the pain the this and that and your body does heal and it is amazing like how quickly it does heal like in the scheme of things like it is kind of incredible.

speaker-1: How long was it until you were up kind of moving, yogoring again?

speaker-0: Moving like two days, I'd say two or three days, and like just really light walks. And I pretty much followed the recommendation of like probably I didn't go outside until a week, I'd say, but I know moving it is really important. Like it's that hard balance of like not too much, but keep it going. And I probably did the first school run two weeks in. Right. My son had like a school art show thing, so I went to that, but Yeah, I think that I didn't exercise until six weeks and I think that was like a good amount of time. And then yeah, I've mainly just been doing like Pilates just for that core kind of I didn't have any separation, luckily, that it all sort of came back together. But I did with my first. I don't know how come I got away with it second time round. Maybe I just did more lab work this time. But yeah, no. I think those six weeks things are really nice. Like it's like you don't have to push yourself. You don't need to like get back into that routine. I quite liked that like 'cause I probably in my body knew I could do it before, like I did feel fine, but I quite liked that I was like, No, I can't do it till six like I didn't have another like job on the list of things to do. Because that just chill.

speaker-1: Definitely. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell me something that no one warned you about.

speaker-0: I think it was the constipation post. Yeah. Because I didn't quite realise how awful that would be. And I found that horrible. I remember one day this being in pain the whole day. I think people warned about it with the vaginal birth, but I didn't realise it it happened the same way. I don't know why. I know it doesn't come out that whole, but I just I didn't in my mind I was like, ⁓ it's going to be fine because it's just up here in this section and not down there. I have no idea why I thought that. It does not make any sense at all. But yeah, I wasn't prepared for that. What was something that people didn't tell me? I think I just didn't realise how difficult the recovery of a C-section was gonna be. I don't think I had really like got my head around that. Because I think it's all that classic like too posh to push. And it's like, ⁓ my god, no way. This is like a way harder. This is a way harder.

speaker-1: This is not the easy route. No way.

speaker-0: It's so funny, like it's so painted as like you get a blow dry, you turn up in like your nice outfit, and then you get a baby. And it's like I just feel like it was so not that. And actually I think every birth is beautiful, but I didn't quite realise that the second chapter was gonna be a lot harder. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

speaker-1: So is there anything you do differently or anything you wouldn't change?

speaker-0: No, I wouldn't change anything. I think yeah, I think you have to flow with whatever life hands you. I think, you know, we're always gonna have a mixture of wonderful things and not so wonderful things in our lives. So yeah, I wouldn't change anything. I feel very grateful. And yeah, you know, I think for me, I didn't have a plan with my birth. I didn't have a expectation. I just wanted to, yeah, walk home with healthy babies and yeah, I'm very lucky to have had that.

speaker-1: And what did your births, births, pick whatever one or both, what did they teach you about yourself?

speaker-0: I think motherhood really pushes you. And I think the capability of your body, of your mind, of yourself, I'm always in an awe of that. And that's something I always say to any friends who are going through, whether it's birth or the beginning of motherhood, I always say you've just got to reflect on how amazingly strong you are because it's absolutely incredible. The sleep deprivation. you know, the birth, the experience, the leading up to it, you know, the journey. It can take people many years to get there. So I think it's just that capability of women to create new life is absolutely amazing. And you know, you walk down the street with a new baby and people are just like, but it is like you see a new baby and you're like, that is a new little person that has entered this world. And it is just magic. Like it is absolutely magical.

speaker-1: Okay, thank you. Right, I'm going to do a couple of quickfire questions. So describe your birth in three words.

speaker-0: Magical, peaceful, unexpected.

speaker-1: Lovely. And tell me one thing you packed that you used and one thing you packed that you didn't.

speaker-0: Ooh, snack bars. I packed loads of snack bars. I like ate all of them probably within like two hours. So hungry after the bath. What did I not use? Changes of clothes. I packed like three pajamas and I definitely just wore the hospital gown.

speaker-1: Who was the first person you called?

speaker-0: My mum.

speaker-1: And what was the first thing you ate afterwards?

speaker-0: It was like this bar. It's called like a fat bar. And it's really it's like coconut nut seeds. It's like a sort of like, you know, kind of health bar. And I just packed like I think I had like six of them or something. They're really delicious. They're really easy. And I just yeah, I had them on a nice yeah. The first birth I had pecan pie, which was a bit more elaborate. Yeah. I went with a snack bars the second.

speaker-1: Sounds lovely. Yeah, that sounds delicious, pecan pie. One thing that helped you more than you expected.

speaker-0: speaking to friends who had also been through C-sections, I think, because they are quite different experiences. They have different difficulty difficult moments. So I just messaged them loads of like, you know, when will the C-section bulge go? When will the pain go? And I feel like just having that support network of other people who had done it was so helpful. And I feel like this sense of gratitude. So whenever a friend is gonna go through that, I'm just gonna like be there for them because I do think you just have a lot of questions. And of course I know you can Google it, but there's nothing like a friend saying, I wore these patches and they were really helpful or like I did this and it just was not great. Like even we're all different, but I think just having a friend who cares about you giving you some advice, there's nothing better than that.

speaker-1: Yeah, okay, with that in mind, what's the worst advice you were given?

speaker-0: sleep when the baby sleeps. I can't nap. It's just not a skill I have. So I felt like almost like there was this pressure when my sons, both of them were napping that I had to nap and I was so bad at it that in my natural thing was that I didn't want to do that. So it wasn't good advice for me because then I was in that thing of like, I need to nap, but I can't nap another day. I must sleep right now. Right now

speaker-1: The pressure to sleep is the ⁓ And if you could send one WhatsApp message to yourself at 37 weeks pregnant, what would it say?

speaker-0: It would say you are going to have a beautiful, healthy baby boy and he will bring so much love into your life and there's gonna be nights where you'll be up and you'll be thinking, Why did I do this? But you know, it will all be amazing and you're so strong, you're so amazing, you're gonna get through this and Yeah, just that you've got this.

speaker-1: Thank you so much. I've loved all that. Is there anything else you want to say or add or leave us with before we wrap up?

speaker-0: I mean, I guess it's just to say that I think every person's journey to motherhood is different. And like whether that's you know, you fell pregnant easily, you went through IVF, you know, surrogacy, different birth that you have, I think we've all got these amazing different journeys to it. And I think it's really about not thinking that there's one right way of doing it and just accepting that there are so many different journeys. And being okay with that 'cause I think the more we resist what our life is or what our journey's been, the more unhappiness it creates for us. So I think accepting whatever the journey is that we went on to get there.

speaker-1: Wise words. Where can listeners find you?

speaker-0: I'm Madeline Shaw on Instagram. Madeline underscore Shaw underscore. There was already lots of Madeline Shaw's out there. And then I've also got a platform called The Glow Space, which has got movement, meditations, and meal plans. So it was very much kind of designed when I was a mum that I couldn't get out to like exercise classes or go and do things. So it's all about affordable, achievable health and wellness in a subscription platform that you can do from home.

speaker-1: Amazing. Thank you. Thanks again for listening to Ready Birth Go. Find out more about the Doula Club and the Ready Birth Go birth preparation course via the link in the show notes. I've got another great guest next week, so I'll see you back here then.