speaker-0: I am really glad that I trusted my instincts, my body, and just allowed nature to take its course as much as I did. Ten days over by the end, but there was nothing wrong in that. She was healthy, she was £8.8. In fact, it meant that I just got a little bit of rest in that time. Hello and welcome to Ready Birth Go, a new podcast from me, Kai Sandland, founder of the Doula Club. This podcast is dedicated entirely to birth experiences: the good, the complicated, the unexpected. And I'm really happy that my first guest has so many great stories that you'll want to hear. Amy Walsh is best known to millions as Tracy Metcalfe on Emmerdale, a role she's played since 2014. Born in Bradford, she got her big break in Hollyoaks later. Since then, she's made it to the final of Celebrity Master Chef, fronted ITVB's Drama Queens, and more recently co-founded Walsh Academy North, a drama school for kids, with her husband, the actor Toby Alexander Smith. She's just stepped away from Emmerdale on maternity leave after the birth of her second daughter, and I am delighted to say she's joining me on the show today. Here's my conversation with Amy Walsh. So nice to actually meet you. And then I feel like I know you. My whole pregnancy. ⁓ that's so nice. Yeah. So you've just had a baby in March? I have, yes. Baby Nell. We kind of couldn't quite decide, so she's Nell, like officially, but we call her Nelly as well. Yeah, that's lovely. My daughter loves calling her Nelly. Her middle name's Rose, so she calls her Nelly Rose in a really cute voice. So we w nearly went with that because Barney loved it so much. But we kind of thought Nel might be more cool when she's older. So she's got the option. I love the name Nell. That was on my list, Nell. Was it? Yeah. What have you got? I've got a Theo and Emmy. ⁓ Emmy is short for Emmeline, like Emmeline Pankhurst, but we call her Emmy. And Emily and and Acer. A little boy called Acer. ⁓ very fun. ⁓ I ⁓ yeah, I would have had four, but yeah. Or do you Ollie wouldn't. So Well, I feel like I would have three now, but I don't I think I'll be fighting a losing battle there as well. Yeah. Which is weird 'cause after my first I was like, never again. ⁓ including after the labour of my first compared to the second. It's quite interesting. So ha so is it Bonnie, your older daughter? Yeah. Okay. So and how old is Bonnie? She's four, four and a bit Yeah. Do you so I think we'll talk about this the nails birth, but are you looking just to do a little kind of headline of of Bonnie's birth, like over the first Yeah, I actually think that's really important to discuss because it kind of influenced my second labour quite strongly. ⁓ yeah, definitely. ⁓ to start with, I was group B strep positive with Bonnie. I don't know how much we know about that in this country, not very much, but weirdly, I'd just heard of it through ⁓ my sisters actually and ⁓ they'd kind of done the home kits and tested for their babies 'cause they'd how funny is this? My elder sister Sally had seen something on this morning discussing it and it was about a baby who had contracted it through ⁓ vaginal labour and actually ended up I don't think they survived. Anyway, it was this horrible story that you see on these T V programmes and Doctor Chris at the time it was 30 fifteen years ago when she was pregnant with my first nephew, he just said, Listen, if you're pregnant now and you want peace of mind, get a kit, the X amount, do it at home, just for peace of mind. And she did, and she was negative. Anyway, long story short, my sister's had four kids, and three of her pregnancies, she was negative, but her last one was positive. ⁓ great beef strep, and she was pregnant just before I was with well, we were pregnant at the same time. So just by default, I kind of was like, ⁓ I better just rule that out. And I got a home kit as well. Anyway, I ended up being positive, greatly stressed. Which I think influenced kind of a knock on effective intervention with my first labour. So on in that regard, I ⁓ had low fetal movements a couple of times throughout my pregnancy with Bonnie, but I think I was more highly anxious anxious because I had like personal experiences of friends going through quite traumatic things with that. So I was very acutely aware. And we went in a couple of times. But anyway, the last one was the day before her due date. So when I went in with them, she was fine and she had been moving in, she was fine. Yeah. But they were like, ⁓ she due dated group B strep positive. Let's just induce you. And I'd done enough reading to kind of know that I could push back on that if I wanted to. Equally, it was my first pregnancy. And to be honest, then I didn't really have a strong opinion about induction. people I knew, friends, sisters had had to be induced, and it hadn't been that bad. so and ⁓ yeah, certainly wasn't like no way, but I did feel like it was a bit of a like a extreme decision in that moment. Cause I was like, there's no way I felt ready to give birth. Like then. I just, you know, I didn't feel ready at all in terms of like I didn't feel the baby was ready to come at all. You know, they said they'd induce me that day. Bearing in mind it was day before Christmas Eve and it was 2021. So we were at height of COVID. Well kind of the back end of it of the main bit. But so they kept us in ⁓ in a side room. My husband could stay with us and we're gonna induce us and then they never came ⁓ all night. had a horrible night's sleep and then they came the next morning and basically said, yeah, we're gonna do it w later on today. And I was like, No. I i if it was that important, you'd have done it then. So I did push back really and I I checked with various people and ⁓ I got ⁓ monitored again and then my cervix checked and I just said like really honestly, I said, Do you think I'm anywhere near needing to get this baby out to one of the middle and they were like, I really don't like go it this was Christmas Eve. Go home. You know, have a nice Christmas. Come back in the morning and be monitored. So that's what happened with that. and then I'll try try and skip along. But she was fine Christmas morning on the monitoring, but they did say let's g give you a sweep and just get her out. Yeah. So I had that and then my waters broke at home on the Boxing day, a trickle, went in, again, they left me for ages because of the staffing issues. Yeah. And then it was a pessary induction hours later, cut to them going, ⁓ no, it's been too long. A drip induction, ramped it right up because it was over the twelve hour window that you allowed with the group of strat. And then I had an epigeral that didn't work, it had come out, ⁓ and no one knew. So I was like, This is with an epideral, why is it so beautiful, horrific? So they had to r put another one in, ⁓ which was awful 'cause I was like transition like I don't know what I was, but I was going through big, big compressions at the point. And it's so you have to sit so still. It's so impossible. Yeah. So I'd done that twice. And then it still didn't really feel like it was working. and then it went to pushing, which was just impossible. I just felt like she was not ready. Like it was just impossible to get her out. Like there was no natural pressure or urges or anything. And I was just being I'd also just had COVID, so was full of cold. And like I just thought my head was gonna pop off. Like I was like, I'm gonna die here. ⁓ it was really quite dramatic anyway. I think the I was just going back over my text messages my husband sent to our family group just to try and remember that one. And it was ⁓ it seems like the epidural's kicked in now. ⁓ and then two hours later she was here. But I thought I had a epesiotomy, a hemorrhage. It was like not fun. Yeah. So I had to kind of put the context there for you to know why I was the way I was with my second. So this berth. No. So this birth, ⁓ so they routin routinely test you, obviously, ⁓ for group B strep the second time if you've carried it. I didn't actually know that you could have it and test negative. So I could have potentially had it anyway. I tested negative this time. ⁓ and I was really relieved because I did think that played a bigger part. you know, in my story. It might not have been, it might have been the Love Beetle movements from what you've just said. So who knows. But I did test negative. I went to Judy and there was no no signs of anything really. and then I was offered like a sweep on my due date and I declined 'cause that had got things going on with Bonnie. But again it was like it just it just seemed like it had got things going too early for me. I don't know my walkers broke broke but they didn't break. They just trickled out and I just felt like nothing was happening really. Yeah. Sorry what Is that why you declined it? Because of the first experience with it? I thought, what is the hurry to get I think I've done loads more research. I follow people like yourself and various others and I just thought, what is the hurry to get them out? Like d dead on the due date. ⁓ I think I think the first time round there was this theory of, well, they're fully cooked, you know, and they're healthy. Get them out while they're healthy. Yeah. Which is very true probably. But I just thought I'd I'd rather wait and see w if she can tell me when she's ready. You know, I I'm not opposed to intervention or medical advice, God, like I think, you know, we're so lucky to have the access we do to a the NHS and the level of ⁓ science that we've got, you know, in our day and age. But I just felt like, I don't know, the more I the more I'd seen of people like you, it just made me think it's the most natural thing in the world. There's no reason why it can't be. Like why meddle that That soon. And because I'd had a really low risk pregnancy, I was like, Yeah, do you know what? I d I don't need it on my due date. Like I I'll pass for that sweep type thing. And I think as well, because sweeps are an induction. Like they didn't play down as ⁓ just a little sweep, you know, but again it was an induction. It was also horrific the first time round. Really? Like, really bad, but it was a male doctor. ⁓ and I've been told that they can be a little bit less sense too with their pressure. ⁓ yeah, I nearly shot off the end of the bed with that one. And I have to say, just so people aren't petrified of having sweep, the second time round, when I eventually did have a sweep, which I'll tell about, ⁓ it was not as horrendous. So like it was no worse than a smear test or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, But yeah, it is an induction and I'd not thought of it like that. That's the first step of induction. I think I did a lot more reading this time. I think the first time round I just read about hypnothing, thinking, yeah, I can breathe my way through it. I think this time round I wanted to be more clued up on all the things that were gonna be offered to me. Instead of just going, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also because we also know that due dates don't really mean anything. Yes. Exactly. They're based on a very kind of old s formula theory that doesn't make a lot of sense really. and and it's, you know, it's the least likely day of babies to come. Four or five percent of babies come on a due date. Yeah, I think I saw you talking about that about my due date and I was like, Wow, don't want to hear that today. Yeah. so before we get into the birth, just So tell me what surprised you most about this birth? What was the thing that surprised you most about it? well. surprise well, my waters broke naturally in the kitchen on on the kitchen floor, which I actually just thought happened in movies. So that was like ⁓ my god. My four year old. Was it a pop and a gush? It was it c it was more of a gush, I'd say. It was a double it was too it was like a It was a strong like release and I was like, what was that? And then it was a douche gush. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No I won't necessarily say Yeah. I think it is. We always say it's not like the movies. I th I think probably in all the years I've done this, I've seen once where the waters literally went like. Really? Honestly. I I was laughing because I was just like, it was Mother's Day. My mum was here and she was here to be around to look after my daughter if we had to go in. We knew I had the planned induction on the Monday ⁓ straight after that, which I'll discuss again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we were just making brunch, literally about to sit down for Mother's Day brunch, and that happened and my daughter was playing fancy dress, so she ran down in one of her outfits to show us all, running round the kitchen island and literally nearly slipped on the water. But it was comical. But I just loved it because I was like, Yeah, like something's happened naturally. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ that moment of have I wet myself or that or it wasn't. It was I I literally said to my husband, I think I think my waters have just broken and I so graphic, but I actually pulled down my pajama bottoms to see and he was like, Are you sure? 'Cause there wasn't like and then it gushed like and then he was like, ⁓ yeah, yeah, that is that. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, it's funny. I was like, get a towel. So if we go yeah, tell me about the bus. So were you at your so had you gone past your due date? So yeah, ⁓ so I ⁓ kind of declined the sweep on the due date and then I had a an appointment with my midwife ⁓ the week after, a whole week after. And I think it was there that I was offered another sweep and I thought, okay, I think I don't know why. I think the not knowing and the childcare thing was starting to like s like make us struggle a little bit and I just thought my mum's here now. She'd come up and I was like, it would be good if it happened soonish now. So, you know, I've le let her cook for another week and let's see. ⁓ so I did. I went for it. I don't know what made me really, you know, make that decision, but it felt like the right one. So that was the Friday, and then had a pretty normal weekend, had reflexology on the Saturday, went and got my nails done. People were like, You must be ready to pop pop. What are you doing out and about? And I I was just fine. I just felt fine. And then the Sunday morning, that's when the waters broke. And at the time I thought, yay, everything's just gonna happen now, and no, you know, issues. But obviously, once your waters break, then there's risk of infection. nothing happened after that that quickly. Anyway, long story short, th we went into hospital, they checked me over, ⁓ and s and said, Go home, if you're not contracting, go home, rest, ⁓ enjoy your mother's day. ⁓ which I did. We went out for Sunday lunch still with my mum, 'cause my mum doesn't live locally. She lives in London. So ⁓ we took her out and then on the way back from ⁓ Sunday lunch, so they they broke at like half nine on the Sunday morning, about Five PM, I started feeling something and I was like, ⁓ because I never really felt normal contractions in the last one either. So I didn't really know what contractions felt like 'cause they were so intense from the induction. Anyway, gradually throughout that evening, I was like, mm, and it they were very intense, even though they were far apart, like and my mum, who's had four children, was like, seem that normal that they're this bad for you. Like

speaker-1: Doesn't

speaker-0: I was really stopped doing my tracks and had to properly breathe through it and hold on to things. but they were so far apart. I ended up downloading a tracker app thing for them and just went through the night. I think I slept till like eleven. ⁓ no, one-ish. And then when I woke at one, I was like, on the side of the bed, like, you know, and I thought, ⁓ I'm just gonna keep everyone up. I'm just gonna go downstairs and kind of like just move about a bit. ⁓ my husband was like, I think we need to go in. I think we need to go in. And I was like, again, this is not like me 'cause I'm not really I'm a rule follower and if someone like recommends that I do something, like you know, I would I would take their advice 'cause what do I know? ⁓ and you know, obviously probably some people would think that they needed to be in hospital at that point. But I had done enough research and re seen enough of your reels to think I don't need to be in hospital. It'll probably slow things down if it's gonna do anything. And I just wanna be at home with my I think having another baby at home, four year old. I just wanted to be here as long as I could. I wanted to be here in the morning if I could be before then going in for the planned induction. So by the way, when I was overdue, they provisionally planned me a ten day day ten induction. I don't know if they do that everywhere, but Leeds policy is they'll offer you a seven day one over which I declined and and then I said, I'll push it to ten days and then I think there's more risk, isn't there, after ten day ⁓ after yeah, ten days a bit. So I said, I'll see how I feel on the day, but yeah, let's provisionally book me one in on that Monday. So she actually came the day that I was booked for the Yeah, it happens sometimes that. Doesn't it, yeah. It's funny, isn't it? And it so happened to be my grandad's birthday, who's no longer with us, my mum's dad. And I'd always said, Imagine if she comes on granddad's birthday. And then she did, which is really lovely. so yeah, so I was up all the night and about half five I thought I'd better ring them 'cause they're so intense. Like they were really painful and I'd consider myself not like particularly week when it comes to pain. and but they were still like sometimes 30 minutes apart, sometimes 15, sometimes 20. Then I'd have like two in a row quite close together. It was just a bit sporadic and random. Anyway, when I rang back, they were like, stay at home, just you know, keep doing what you're doing. There's no point in you coming in unless you want to be. And I was like, okay, that's just that seems risky. But she did say, you know, you're coming in anyway at half nine, regardless. So just come just come then. So that is actually what we did. So I was labouring all night. My daughter got up, I French plaited her hair. I don't know how I did that now. In the middle of it, I was feeling over, going, Mum, Mum, just distract her, going onto the step like crawling up the steps, like so she couldn't hear me screaming out. It was like white bad. To the point where I couldn't speak through it or you know. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ and that's when they say if you can't talk and you can't move, you're probably a bit further along, but they were still so far apart. Anyway, we go to the hospital. We couldn't park, of course, so I had to get dropped off. And I went to the reception and I said, I'll just walk up through And I'll meet you at Mac. ⁓ and I had to stop on the way. I thought, ⁓ my god, I'm gonna have it in the foyer of this hospital. People were looking at me like she's about to have a baby because it was so bad. Anyway, I didn't. ⁓ but they got started getting closer together. And once I finally basically found out where I needed to be, I'd gone to Mac, but apparently I should have gone to the delivery suite for this induction that I was booked for, but no one had told me. Ended up getting meeting the midwife, getting to the ⁓ delivery suite. And then they were still discussing inducing me. Yeah. So I said, ⁓ but I think it's happening. Like they've been really bad. And they were saying, Well, it's too long since your autos broke. You know, it's now past twenty-four hours. This is like half ten by the time I've You were a labor. I know. I know. But because my Induction was so horrible the first time, I really pushed back on it 'cause I thought, No, I'm not doing this again. So I said, I d I really d I don't think I need it, you know. Anyway, they they checked my cervix by eventually. ⁓ 'cause when I had the sweep on the Friday, the midwife said I was two centimetres then. Yeah which is a surprise. But I think it can be in a in a second because you're always on it before your cervix is stretched. You could put you if you'd have had an exam at 36 weeks, you might have been two centimetres. ⁓ really? So you never really felt that. Yeah. So by the time they actually checked my cervix, it was about ⁓ like eleven o'clock. and I was four centimetres, but I was still in immense pain. Yeah, so I said if I'm gonna be induced, I need one, but if I'm not, I don't really want one because I really wanted to be mobile and I really didn't really feel the benefit of it the first time around, mainly 'cause it didn't work. But also like I just didn't feel any natural urgies and and that was just my experience. And I just thought that's what all lepigerals must be, that you just can't feel anything. So I didn't really want either. But I was never gonna be like, Don't give me the drugs. Like I was never gonna be a martyr about it. I just thought it might be so much more bearable this time and I'd already, you know When the gastonaire was helping anyway, then to get to four centimetres, I'd been in a hell of a lot of pain. I'd had paracetamol, I'd had gastonaire, and I'd had one other like tablet that was like a paracetamol but a bit stronger. But that's it. And when they checked me and said it was four centimetres, I was like, ⁓ my gosh. So they came in and to give me the epigoral after much discussion. But this is in between like bad contractions. So you don't have your wits about you, which is why it's so important and which so many doolers will say, won't they, that like and midwives that you have to your birth partner has to really know what you want to to speak for you in those instances. And he did, but he didn't know how you know he can't say what I was feeling in that moment. So anyway, they came in to issue the epigenoral first. But they couldn't come for quite a while. So I'd gone even longer without it. And ⁓ and they said, Hi, Amy, ⁓ so you've requested an epigeral. And for some reason, the way they said it made me go, No, I haven't. Like, I don't know if it was a shame thing that I couldn't do it without it, or 'cause it's just not me. I didn't need it to be a natural, you know. But the way they phrased it just made me go, No, I'm only having it if I have to have an induction, like in my head. And I properly like panicked and I was like, ⁓ and then I went into another contra ⁓ contraction and I was like, ⁓ I can't they gave me this leaflet to read, you know, the the the figures about it. I couldn't read it. I was literally This is the last thing you can take in, isn't it? Yeah. I couldn't even hold it. I was grabbing on, like for dear life through the pain. So that I sent them out. I said, Can I just have a minute? I can't deal with this right now. we went out, but I was very aware, you know, they're waiting like they're needed in the hospital. So I was like aware of that and I was like, I'm so sorry, I just can't make that decision right now. Like it feels like it's gonna happen any minute. Like, is there any point basically? Anyway, my husband did give me a bit of a not a stern word, but he was like, babe, it could be hours more. Like, I ⁓ we asked our midwife, who was amazing by the way, our midwife. I loved it a bit. ⁓ and we said, you know, how long could this be? And she was like, It it could be six hours, like you don't know, you know? and he said, You can't do this for six hours. Like the level of pain you're in is ridiculous. And I thought, ⁓ yeah. So I conceded and had it, but it was so hard for them to get it in. And I could tell they thought you were only four centimetres, keep still. Like I really felt Like there was this really northern guy helping the anethic an I can never say that word, an ethist an ethotist. It's got She was lovely, but he was like, All right, keep still then. And I was like And ⁓ now look I can't I can't I'm gonna have to do this one 'cause they were coming quite fast then. So I'd go through the contraction and I'd be on gas and air and so I'd be a bit spaced out and then he'd be like, Are you done? We need to get it in and I'd be like, Okay, is it not in yet? Like, I just didn't know what was going on. Anyway, they eventually got it in. So that was at one thirty-seven. I've just checked on my WhatsApp group to the family that my husband said, Okay, Epigeral's in, thank goodness. Amy's done so well, but she's been in so much pain. they're gonna check her again in two hours or something. And Five minutes later he text saying, ⁓ no, she's coming and my my sisters were like, Who is that the baby? And he was like, Yep, she's pushing. So went from four centimetres to ten to pushing in with less than two hours. Even from this conversation with you, I knew that's what you were gonna say. Is it? Well the more people you speak to, the more common you realize that is. Honestly, I can't believe as a second timer who's had a baby before, who's having the strength of contractions you've had Who n who we all know the the number of your cervix, especially in a second, doesn't mean anything, you know, like even so you can literally go from two to ten in about t twenty minutes, which is what you did. So the fact that that wasn't even mentioned to you, like no it's like no one was looking at you and being like, This woman is clearly, you know. ⁓ Did the epidural actually even have time to no My neigh drive said, Don't tell anyone you have had an epigar, because it never kicked in. I never even got to getting the catheter in. Like I literally could feel everything and was walking around seconds after, like, you know, just nothing. It just didn't it just didn't work. And actually, afterwards I said, It didn't work at all, like nothing. And then they weren't sure if it might not have even been like fitted right again. public salads being around so much. So I was like so three epidoles in my life I've been Okay, wow. So so so I went from she's pushing, I think I did it in about five pushes. The pain was unimaginable, like, but but I loved the feeling of knowing what my body needed to do. So even though it was so painful and I was like you know, I was making real guttural noises that I didn't even know was possible. And it's mad because I've read so much about like don't Don't make those noises, you're wasting your energy, you know, breathe through it and but I had to. It was like animalistic. ⁓ the gas and air saved me. But it was really, really intense, but I just loved the fact that I I was listening to my body. And at first the midwife was like, I think you might be doing involuntary pushing. Or something. And I was like, what's that? No. And they just didn't believe that I could have got that far, obviously. ⁓ and then I was like, I made that push. And I did. And then she came and and then no tear. Well, tiny, tiny tear, but nothing that needed stitches, no apesiostomy, like the most amazing recovery, no hemorrhaging, you know, like last time. I felt completely normal afterwards. Like I Could not believe like before I couldn't even sit down, like for days, you know. And then this time I'm fine. Like I hate to say it's for people that haven't been so fine. But I'm also just celebrating the wins, because although it wasn't without its kind of trauma, it was, you know, pretty good considering I feel pretty lucky to have how ended up like that, you know? I mean amazing, you know. Yeah. And

speaker-1: shit.

speaker-0: What was the other thing I was gonna say about that? ⁓ they compare me into last time, but now I can't remember. I've just lost my train of thoughts. What did you think the birth was gonna be like? Did you think it was gonna be like your first birth? Is that kind of what you thought or ⁓ I really hoped it wouldn't be like I was really and I you know I'm not that spiritual or whatever, but I am like about positive energy and stuff, and I was really trying to manifest like it Sorry, she just burped. ⁓ manifest like it just being you know, I kind of hoped it would be in water and I breathed my way through it, but I knew that was very, very unlikely. I just hoped it'd be better than last time. And I really I didn't want an induction and I really hoped to not have to have a cesarean, mainly because I've got another one and I just didn't want to not be able to hold her and carry her and you know, I just thought that would be so much harder and I am really grateful now for that. But I didn't really know what to expect, to be honest, because it was so alien the first time round. It was so like nothing I thought Labour would be. I mean even the contractions the first time round, I was like, I just feel like someone's slashing me across across the back with a hot poker. That's what it felt like. It felt or like slicing my skin open. Like it felt like that. Since then I've thought, could that have been the needle, the epigoral? Like, because I did get that pain briefly this time round, and my husband was like, maybe that was an epigoral thing. But I never felt like what a contraction felt like. And even this time, it was all very much kind of up, ⁓ like pressure up, like more like my period pains are, as opposed to like my stomach contracting. I've never really had that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. It's just interesting, isn't it? 'Cause everyone's so different. It is. And I think every labour's different for for ourselves. You know, if you had another baby, it would be a different experience. You know, it is it is crazy. Did you feel safe? Did you feel safe? Did you feel No, I really did actually. ⁓ Like I say, I had one midwife like for the whole duration, which was amazing and she was so lovely and I I I felt really lucky to have that. the first time with Bonnie four years ago, it was in London actually, and the midwife was amazing, we knew her, but in terms of like just procedure and the covid thing and everything, I felt a little bit like It felt frantic. I didn't I don't remember I I thought like I'm gonna die. Are you telling me to do something? I'm like my head's gonna explode. You know, I didn't feel particularly safe this time. I felt like Yeah, I just I felt like in good hands. I did. And I you know, I'm really grateful to ⁓ Leeds General Infirmary because I just think they're amazing. Yeah. It didn't feel like a freak experience. It felt like, ⁓ yeah, labour's never gonna be painless, is it? You know? I I'm feeling it. I'm I'm I'm getting to experience it. And I really did want that. Yeah. That ⁓ yeah, I I really wanted that experience this time around 'cause I felt almost cheated and I know so many people are, but I felt a bit cheated out of the first time because it was just like torture. I think it it can be the second birth, depending obviously on how it goes. can be quite a healing experience. Yeah. Do you know what that's what I was gonna say? I started really crying when I got the gas and air. It was out of nowhere. I was sobbing, ⁓ like a real whale and I couldn't help it. And it was like that thing when you're drunk and you're crying and you kind of don't really know why you're crying, but you kind of need to just go through it. And then I'd come out of it and I'd be like, sorry about that. I don't know where that came from. And then after a while I was like in the contractions while I was crying, I was crying it's reminded me of the first time PTSD. Yeah. Yeah. And it was almost made me realise how traumatized I was by Bonnie's bear. Which is why, you know, when you reached out to talk about it, I was like, I really want to talk about this now. I think so many people are so scared of going back there sometimes if they've had a bad one. But I feel like I need it for therapy. Like You know, I'm fine, but I feel very grateful that I've had like that cathartic experience with her to kind of undo what was taken away or whatever. Yeah. I think it's so important to talk through the experience, however it went, you know, it's all part of processing it definitely. in in the labour, did you ⁓ would did you was there a moment you thought I can't do this? Or did you to I think again, I I think I'd done enough like research, and I talk about research in the loosest way. I watch your videos on Instagram, ⁓ like stuff, but I'd done enough of that to know that that was a very common thing. Like, so I n I kind of knew that if I got to that point, it meant I was close to the end. So I think there was times that I was like, ⁓ I feel like saying I can't do it, but I know that I can and I have to, and that's like where I'm at. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ and obviously there was times bef before the epigural was put in that I thought I can't do this without pain relief for sure. And I was like, this is so bad. And then once it wasn't working, I was like, when's it gonna kick in? Like I can't go I can't do another one. And actually I remember thinking once she had come out and they said, Okay, one more for the afterbirth. I knew there was an afterbirth butt and I knew you had to push that out. I didn't realise it was a painful contraction. I think I just thought it like fell out. ⁓ I didn't realise now the sheer size of it. I saw I saw it afterwards. I was like, no wonder. But that one I thought, no, I haven't got any more in me. Like to do that. And I had her on me. I was shell shocked. Like I talk about it now so like nicely. In fact, I've just been with a load of mums at a coffee morning. I I was being so positive about it. And then I was like, Don't you know? Don't get me wrong, it was not without its like absolutely petrified moments. And yeah, when she was put on me, I remember thinking, Don't give me a baby, I'm about to die. You know, I keep saying I'm about to die, but like I just felt so shell shocked, like t utter shock. Like if I'd have been stood up, I'd just crumbled. That's what I was gonna ask actually, what do you remember about those first few minutes after birth? Yeah. Just like the feeling of what the hell just happened. If you as if you'd just been beaten up on the street by a stranger and you didn't know why. Like it it felt like what 'cause it was so quick. Yeah. You know, like it So primal. Felt so yeah, primal, but just so fast to be going from that train of thought and discussion and chat to that. It was like and I just there's a video of me and I look at my husband 'cause he took a video of her coming out and like pans up to me and I just look on another planet but I look at him like what the hell did you just witness? 'Cause that was that was bad. Yeah, and I think weirdly you know yeah. And I think you know, nobody wants a really long drawn out labour. No, well I was very called because there is a thing Yeah, but I think there is a thing ⁓ like of a fast birth, you know, and there's a lot to deal with in a fast birth, you know, they're too fast and there's like what the actual just happened. Yeah. With Bonnie I was pushing for ages and she just kept going back in. So they go, there's the the head, we can see the head and I'd feel and there was no head. It was like one of those things at the from fair. You know the the whack a mole. Whack them all and you know that was really hard and the pushing and the pressure and because I was really covety I was like so hard to push and just relentless and ⁓ like forever. This felt controlled, it felt measured. I kinda knew when the next one was coming what I needed to do. And it was it was too quick, but I was grateful that it didn't go on for what I think was hours with Bonnie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then scary. Like I remember it felt scary with Bonnie. Like I remember my husband looking at me like, You really have to go for the They wheeled in the trolley of ⁓ equipment to do Von Two, sort of four sets. And he knew I didn't really want that. He just saw he said it was so scary, they just wheeled in this thing and I thought, What they're gonna do to you? And he went, You really have to go for this one, go for it. And he hadn't mean like that pushy very loving and caring, like and gentle like ⁓ and he did and as soon as i heard that turn in his voice i was like all right it's now or never because i just didn't I didn't want it as cesarean then either so that was my name fear but ⁓ it's scary for partners a lot you know because they're obviously not experiencing it in the same way but they're watching and they're witnessing and they carry a lot of fear and trauma I think into second neighbours. It it's it was so hard for him the first time round. Like, you know, I mean, to the point where I mean, we've even he's written a film and made a film about ⁓ like postpartum depression in in men, like ⁓ and not that he particularly had it, but he had, you know, really dark moments and we've discussed it quite openly, like ⁓ but you know He's done loads of research now and works with some amazing charities about it. So he's learnt loads more for this time around. But then he didn't know what to expect. You know, that was the f that was basically the first day of it, wasn't it? The first day of fatherhood, you basically see your partner w what seems to be nearly like dying. You think they're gonna die. You think they're gonna die. They they're more the baby and it does. Yeah, and it's absolutely petrifying, exactly. Yeah. ⁓ the baby thing as well. That was scary for him this time actually. And I remember hit it it was that voice again he used because they were going, we're losing they were monitoring her like quite intensely because of the time that the waters had been broken, I think, more than more than anything else. I'm not sure. ⁓ and they couldn't keep the monitor thing on my tummy because I was moving so much through the contractions. And there was quite a lot of panic about that. And they were like, We're losing her, we keep losing her and they were like, You need to get on your back and I just wanted to be on my side. and then I wanted to go on all fours and they were like, We can't get to the baby, you know, we need to get to her heart rate. And he did that voice again where was like, try and get on your back, try and get on your back, you have to And I was like, I can't, I can't so in the end they ended up going up into her head. Do you know that? With the fetal scalp monitor. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't know anything about that. So I was like, What? You're gonna put a needle in a head? What? I was like, Well and he just looked so panicked. He was looking at the monitor and he just saw it like drop out and so he was petrified and he like, Yeah, yeah, just do it, just do it. Yeah So that happened as well in all that commotion but like just another like really scary thing for him to go through. Which can have things when there's so much focus on the monitoring and then when baby's so low and it happens the heart rate, you know, and it's kind of the moment. Yeah, for everyone in that room. Even though it's generally fine, it still is quite, you know, yeah, it's still quite panicky. Is that quite common, that scalpel thing? ⁓ it's not really. I mean it's it's not like a standard. So the standard for continual monitoring is is the you know, the what you have on your belly, like the round, you know, monitors. That would be kind of the standard. If they are can't get the you know, if they can't you know, they work they're losing it or they just can't keep a trace of it. ⁓ or for example, you've got twins, so they kind of want to separate the heart monitoring, it would be. So I've I've in all I mean I've you know in all the births I've supported, which is a lot now, ⁓ I've only ever seen it a few times actually. Really? Yeah. Yeah. yeah. And it's I think they often people sort of like they sort of like we're just gonna put a little clip on baby's head, which is how they describe it, but it is actually you it like you say, it's a needle, it's kind of a minute. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ baby. What did your birth teach you about yourself? think that I am resilient actually. I mean, I think getting through that first part of Labour on my own and I told Toby to stay in bed because I knew I I was envisaging like two whole days, you know, in Labour like last time. So I was like, don't get with me, you know, I'll just go and do it on my own. And I was very happy to do that. But, you know, it wasn't easy, but I think I am quite strong in that respect of just getting on with things by myself. And then I guess I mean, I think Labour taught me that I've got a really low pain threshold because it was so painful. And I'm just like now because the first time around when it was so painful. I was like, it's because I was induced and it's because the epidural didn't work. And then when I experienced basically natural labour t up to a point I was like, okay, no, it's just really, really painful. But some people do this without anything, without guessing it. Some people breathe them out. Some people do it in the car on the way to the house. But like I just, it still blows my mind that it can be that easy for some people and not others. Do you know? I mean, if from what you've described to me, it sounds like you did amazing and coped very well, you know, those hard labours. Honestly, like that's you know. But yeah, you're right, everybody does experience it differently. I think no matter what you do. How how you know it's it's quite a unique ⁓ thing in how our body experiences the sensation. Yeah. But it sounds to me like you absolutely smashed it. Well done. okay, I've got some quick fire questions for you. ⁓ describe your birth in three words. Quick. Painful. But ⁓ I wanna say uneventful, which is the wrong word, but ⁓ like not traumatic, but it was. I can't think of the the third word that it needs to be, but I think uneventful, I think 'cause there isn't there's there can be so much event still in something that's uneventful. Yes. That's what I mean. Yeah, I guess. But there was always less, yeah. There was less events within the event. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the one thing you packed that you didn't use? Good question. That's so funny because I was gonna do a reel of stuff that I did use because I found it's I took so much stuff. What did I not use? I'll tell you one thing I did use that I I haven't mentioned for payment leaves the TENS machine that got me through the home bit. And then actually when it was on me and I was in the hospital, I was like, Get this thing off me. It's like buzzing me when I'm in rest mode. ⁓ what did I not use? Flipping like loads of things. like yeah, yeah. I I I'd taken the same hat that my mum knitted for Barney and taken it, but it was ta ⁓ too small for her head. Is that good enough? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Playlist or silence? ⁓ do you know what's so funny? Toby had done for a surprise a six-hour playlist for me. of all our songs and my favourite songs and we only listened to about 40 minutes of it because it was so fast. But yeah, definitely music. It really got me through. In fact, I vividly remember the song that was playing while the epigaral was going in and I was looking at him like, This is so funny, 'cause it was a stupid song from a musical. But everyone's thinking, what is she listening to? But also I bet you could never listen to that song in the same way. Well, we're such a big family that we converse over WhatsApp as I've been to. The family WhatsApp? My my family were on the hotline through the WhatsApp group and Toby's obviously were the same. So yeah. So all my sisters, my brother, my nephew, like my brother in laws, they were all in on it at my mom. And ⁓ they were literally when he said, She's pushing, they were like, Go Ames, we're here for you know, and obviously I didn't see it at the time, but it was so nice to like look back on. And weirdly, I was looking just for like details to talk about today 'cause my brain's so frazzled. And I searched Epijaural in the in the chat search and there was like three messages of the recent one and then it skipped up to Bonnie's one. So then I was like reading those conversations as well and I was like, that's so weird, four years apart, and it's all just still there. ⁓ amazing, I always think like WhatsApp, like hist WhatsApp history messages on my brain, on my memory. Yeah, it's like a diary. ⁓ yeah. Some 'cause like when I support births, I always write it up afterwards. And but sometimes I forget and I don't do it for ages and I have to sort of go back. To the what apps I'm sending my husband going, ⁓ she's at the pushing stage now. I shouldn't be too long. Or like she was like, I said, So we have you the whole time? 'Cause I didn't know what it'd be like, like non COVID time. And she was like, Yeah, hopefully. I mean I I clock off at seven PM, but if you get her out by then, yeah. And I was like, ⁓ yeah, one o'clock. There you go. It's a good reason, isn't it? ⁓ can I just say this? The poor woman tripped over some wires right at the beginning of my labour. She was like really stoic about it and was like, ⁓ I'm just so clumsy. But she went with a right fall. And she came back like when she was leaving. She's his wife. Yeah. Yeah. So she did my whole labour. Then once Bonnie ⁓ not Bonnie, now was born, she went off to do other things and cover breaks and stuff. And then she came back to see us and take us. down to the ward and she was hobbling and she apparently went to A and E after that because she'd hurt her ankle so badly. And she did a whole shit. Did she? Well, I still don't know. I need to find out and I need to say ⁓ wow. What an amazing what what an amazing woman to do. I know she so was. I really like I'll be forever grateful that she didn't just go home. So yeah, anyway, it was really nice to have like the constant. Mm. That's lovely. I know and it is it it is I think, you know, when you've got a million sort of shift changes over a very long labour, it's quite hard and it is a bit of a lottery as to who you get. But yeah, when you kind of in and out and you get the same person, it's all the sort of stars align a bit, don't they? It did really feel like that this time, you know. Okay, last if you could send one message to yourself at thirty seven weeks, what would it say? Trust your body. Yeah. I am really glad that I trusted my instincts, my body, and and just ⁓ allowed nature to take its course as much as I did, you know? She was ten days over by the end, but there was nothing wrong in that. Like she was healthy, she was eight pounds eight. ⁓ she was t I was totally comfortable as well. Like Think it's different if you're going through a horrible pregnancy. But I was fine for it to be in that. In fact, it meant that I just got a little bit of rest, like in that time, because I don't think I really stopped until my due date. And then I was like, okay, I kind of have to chill out a bit more now. ⁓ that's nice. That's a good good message to end on. Thank you so much. I've loved our chat and I'm so sorry about all the techie stuff. ⁓ I don't worry, me too. I'm sorry about the fine baby, but you know, it goes with the Is there anything ⁓ no, I love I love hearing the little noises and the breastfeeding noises. I love it. ⁓ is there anything else you want to say or add or leave us with before we wrap up? Probably, there's probably things I'll think of afterwards. But no, I'll just leave it there. I just want say thank you to you because you really did guide me in those last few weeks. I was just so happy to stumble acros across your page. And it did just give me the strength that. you need to just push back a little bit or just trust your instincts or just know to ask more questions about everything that's been offered to you. I think that's the main thing, isn't it? Yeah. you know, not to just accept what you offered straight away without just asking. Yeah, without questioning, yeah. ⁓ that's so thank you. ⁓ and where can listeners find you? Where where do you where are you? Where am I? I gosh, that's a good question. ⁓ On Instagram, Amy V Walsh, and I'm just a bit of an idiot on there. I do bits of cooking content because I did Master Chef a few years ago. You were a finalist, right? I was. Thank you for mentioning it. Runner up, I'd like to say. Yeah, and then just baby and family stuff. ⁓ I'm obviously well not obviously but I'm on Emma Dale, so I'll be back on the T V in a year's time. Or whenever off with your daughter on screen?

speaker-1: Right.

speaker-0: ⁓ yes, we've we've gone away for a bit, but ⁓ we can come back whenever we want. So that's kinda nice. So I'll just kind of see how I feel. Yeah. Yeah. And then I am on TikTok, but I can't ever remember my TikTok. Lovely. Well, yeah, it was great to chat. ⁓ thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Thank you. And take care. Thanks again for listening to ReadyBirth Go. Find out more about the Doodle Club and the Ready Birthgo birth preparation course via the link in the show notes. I've got another great guest next week, so I'll see you back here then.