Franziska Haydanek: And when it comes to nutrition, every one of us eat. So therefore, everyone feels like a nutrition expert because they might have solved their bloating by a certain diet. And so now they're claiming this diet is the diet for my XY symptoms, you should try it too. And the nuance is lost. The personalization is lost when influencers do that type of education online. Welcome back to I Did My Own Research. I'm Dr. Fran, and today I'm joined by Colleen Sloan. Colleen is both a PA and a registered dietitian and educates on the intersection of medicine and nutrition on her social media, Exam Room Nutrition. Colleen, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, Dr. Fran. I'm really excited for you and your podcast. This is really needed information, so thanks for having me today. Well, speaking of needed information, you really are probably the Maha movement's enemy because you not only are a medical provider, but you also have extensive education in evidence-based nutrition. Tell us a little bit, I think both educationally, how you got here and then how you got to sharing your expertise online. Yeah, I love my blend of nutrition and medicine and it started with nutrition. So I have my bachelor's degree from Florida International University in nutrition and dietetics. And so I've been a registered dietitian since 2011. I really worked in a variety of fields, inpatient and ICU. So I did nutrition support. And then I did my own private practice doing weight management counseling, and then I moved into pediatrics, a lot of specialized clinics with cleft and craniofacial cystic fibrosis. So a lot of conditions that needed high nutrition interventions. And then I felt like I wanted to do more on the medical team and I wanted to do more medical treatment as opposed to just the nutrition care. And so I went to PA school in 2015 and I've been a pediatric PA since 2017. And it's been a beautiful marriage of... medicine and nutrition. And that really is lacking, unfortunately, in the medical care that we provide our patients. And I think it's mostly due to the system. Most of us don't want to rush through a visit, and we're only given 10 minutes, and you can only do so much in those 10 minutes. But with the two hats that I wear, nutrition and medicine, I am really able to sort of bring that nutrition advice in in a relatively quick amount of time to where it's really impactful. Now, That's my, you day job, I like to call it. And then I created a platform online and my own podcast. And it kind of was birthed about three years ago after hearing so many of my patients just be given ineffective and, for one example, harmful advice. I had a nine-year-old child that I was seeing and I walked into the room and he was crying, which, you know, in pediatrics, that's not unusual because they all think they're getting shots. So I wasn't really surprised, but he, you know, he wasn't there for a well check. So of course I just said, hey bud, what's going on? Like, why are you crying? And mom had said that he was really upset because he gained three pounds. And she said, well, you know, the time before at his checkup, the doctor told him that if he didn't lose weight next time, that he would get diabetes and need to take shots in his belly. And so that messaging affected him so much to the point where... He had been weighing himself multiple times a day for the last several months and restricting his foods. So of course, this young child, when he stepped on the scale and he grew like he should have, right, he's prepubescent, he was just besides himself. He thought he failed himself, he failed the doctor, and he was really concerned with like what the outcome would be. And so at that moment, I went just like, you know, I'm sure the doctor meant no harm. You know, he probably saw that this kiddo was... his trajectory was elevated and he wanted to intervene. And he probably said that just kind of flippantly, because it was at the end of the visit, you know, we've all been there where you just are like cornered into just giving some kind of advice, but it really affected the child. And I thought, you know, I know so many better ways to educate and counsel patients with nutrition, and I know what it feels like to be the clinician. Why don't I start a podcast and a platform so that... I can really help my colleagues give better nutrition advice. So I like to say, not only do I spot misinformation and correct it online, but I really help guide the conversation and help the miscommunication of that information so clinicians can really guide their patients better. that is so interesting that you've seen it both online and in real life. And it makes me so sad for that little kiddo who should have gone through that. as much as I don't want to give anyone any credit here, the reality is as physicians, PAs, a nutri- like the work that registered dietitians do is not work that we are taught in school, right? We definitely are taught nutrition in school and the way that it relates to disease, how certain lack of nutrients leads to disease. But I would argue that that's true, that we are not taught to do the work of a registered dietitian in our training, nor do I firmly believe we should, because as you explained, the depth of your training that you had to be a registered dietitian and the type of work you are doing, it would be ridiculous to expect us to be able to do that and our medical work. I argue a lot online when it comes to this that we really, as healthcare providers, should be utilizing our other professionals when it comes to these things. And it's a little, I think, poor to demand that of physicians who are already doing more than they're really able to do in the short amount of time that they have. But at the same time, registered dietitians are hard to come by. insurance doesn't cover it. And it's a lot of work to go see a registered dietitian to keep a food diary and review it and come back. you know, lot of people aren't always going to do that, but they'll see their doctor. And so for us to be able to be knowledgeable and at least providing some information, some is better than none, but it does have to be correct. So tell me a little bit how you go about for the people who are listening who want to know how they can get your information, what are you putting out there that's helping us so that we don't cause that same trauma? Yeah, and you know, it's all out of like love and understanding. I do know how it feels when a patient, you know, you're at the end of the visit, you've probably already spent 10 minutes with this patient, you've hopefully, you thought you answered all of their questions, you shut your note, you go for the door and they're like, ⁓ I forgot to ask you, or ⁓ one more thing while you're here, you know, ⁓ what's the best diet? I wanna lose 15 pounds, what do I do? And you're like... This is a very big question and I don't have the time to unpack it. So in my content, I really help answer the questions that I'm getting in daily day-to-day life from my patients. And like, you feel cornered to either give a yes or no answer, especially with the influx of information. know, social media is just ripe with information, lot of but you're throwing so many things of like, ⁓ I saw this diet on TikTok. What do you think about this supplement? Should I do XYZ diet? And when you're rushing, when you're exhausted and you're burnt out, because this is your 35th patient of the day, sometimes it's just easier to be like, yeah, sure, it's fine. Try it. Maybe you don't know. And so I really try to think of the questions that I'm being asked in clinic and give a very succinct answer or teach you how to reflect back and even just ask better questions. Because you know what? We don't know everything. I'm not in women's health, so I might not be able to answer questions specifically about childbearing and post labor and delivery, right? Like, I can answer some, but how do you even answer that so that, number one, you don't look or feel dumb and your patient feels satisfied after the visit? Because none of us, you know, we all, it's customer service. We wanna kind of give the patient what they want. We want them coming back to us. We don't wanna just say, ⁓ I don't know, you know? And then you feel like... And then they go and educate themselves in the wrong spaces, right? They're upset with us because we couldn't give them the answers for right or wrong, good or bad. And then they go online, I think, a lot of the times. And I feel there is a lot of people online discussing nutrition who probably shouldn't. And I think that's important for people to hear too is that Colleen is a registered dietician. She went through a very lengthy schooling and training to receive that specific title. The title of nutritionist... is like, can be anyone. Like, I had another nutritionist on and she's like, my dog could be called a nutritionist. And it's like, that's true. Like, literally anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. And when they give themselves these like fake titles, people believe them. Do you feel like that's true? Do you feel like you're seeing, I mean, you know, our algorithms learn ourselves, but even as someone who doesn't like post about nutrition, I get, I see all this nutrition stuff online. 100%. And that terminology is very confusing. And your previous guest is totally right. Nutritionist is a broad term. Anyone who claims to be a nutritionist can be one. That could mean anything too. It might mean they went through a weekend course and became a nutrition coach, quote unquote. It might mean they have a little certificate through their personal training program. They might have like functional nutrition training and decide to call themselves a nutritionist. But the definition or the terminology registered dietitian, that is a legally protected credential, just like medical doctor. just like physician assistant. These are protected legally because there are steps you have to take in order to become one. So registered dietitians now have master's degrees in nutrition science. They complete 1,200 hours of supervised practice. So essentially, like in medical school, it's almost like residency, a fellowship. It's training in all areas under the supervision of registered dietitians. And then they have to sit for board exam. So they are state licensed and board certified. We also have to have 75 continuing education credit hours, I think it's every five years, to maintain that credential. Worse is a nutritionist, none of that applies. Nothing. Nothing. They can do whatever they want and there's no board to report them to. Exactly. so dieticians are kind of constantly battling the misinformation that's put out there. And the information that dieticians put out and even, you know, doctors and other med influencers put out, it's not always as sexy as the nutritionists. are putting out there, right? And when I educate people, I really help them spot the nutrition grifters, right? Because it's everywhere. It's endemic, basically, on social media. You really have to be careful who you are following. And that's not to say just because someone has a credential, meaning RD, MD, PA, they are also putting out accurate advice. Generally speaking, majority of us do try to put evidence-based information, but... you do have to be really cautious with who you follow because there can be so much misinformation easily spread. Yeah, I really feel like currently in like the state of like Maha that we're in, it's like exploding. you know, the seed oils are the devil. No one should ever eat Red 40 die. You know, raw milk is okay. It keeps being perpetuated from like the top down in our government. So of course, everyone feels emboldened to continue to say those same things. I don't have a lot of experience in... the research of nutrition. Is there a lot of, like, conflicting science? Is that why there's such a, like, a ripe environment for misinformation? Because, like, you know, say, for example, seed oils, right? I see everyone saying seed oils are bad. And then I see people who come on and say, let's talk about seed oils and the reality of what their research shows. Why is there such a divide or are people just taking advantage of, like, misunderstandings? Yeah, you know, you can find an article to support your opinion. on anything. Is that article well written? Probably not. You know, if you actually, you know, talk to PhDs who study how to study, you know, literature, a lot of that study design is not appropriate. And often they may take a nutrition grifter, may take a study or use that as their research. And when you really dig into the methods and the outcomes and even the number of people who are in it, it might have nine, you know, participants, or it was all men. So, and then they're extrapolating that to women. You cannot do that. Or it was an animal study, and that wasn't disclosed in the 30-second reel where they're scaring you about XYZ food, right? So there really isn't much conflicting, I would say, evidence, especially like seed oils. We have a plethora of strong, well-designed evidence that shows that seed oils are not... you know, as toxic and poisonous, as influence, yeah, inflammatory, just all the crazy claims that they say, we have great studies to prove otherwise. And, you know, no one is arguing that, you know, we are not saying that you should eat processed foods, just and drink, you know, gallons of canola oil. No one is saying that. You know, when we talk about seed oils are okay as part of a healthy diet, I'm saying, you know, it's probably okay if you drizzle it on your salad or if you cook a little bit of salmon in it, right? No one is saying to the amounts that you're claiming is toxic and is poisonous. And I think another reason beyond just using studies and claiming studies inappropriately, I think the good and bad thing about social media is that everyone has a microphone. And when it comes to You don't have to prove anything to talk about anything. No. I could flip my camera on right now and say anything that I want. And when it comes to nutrition, every one of us eat. So therefore, everyone feels like a nutrition expert because they might have solved their bloating by a certain diet. And so now they're claiming this diet is the diet for my XY symptoms, you should try it too. And the nuance is lost. The personalization is lost when influencers do that type of education online. is such a good point about the fact that everyone eats. I've never thought of it that way. Like, why is nutrition such a point? So many different types of people talk about it, but everybody eats. Like, you know, for OB-GYN, I always say, like, a lot of people talk about topics of OB-GYN because a lot of people touch point, have touch points with the field of OB-GYN in their life, right? Like, you either have a period or you have a baby. So, like, at one point, you're probably gonna see an OB-GYN, but now you put the whole rest of the population in too. And yeah, especially for the people who, like, figured out that they don't tolerate certain foods. If you don't have the experience to know that your intestines are not the same as the person next to you... But now you just have like a little bit of information about yourself and you think that you can help everyone else. That's probably where all these like nutrition coaches pop up and feel that they have the right to say those things. And it's dangerous, right? Not only are we different biologically, chemically, but also when it comes to access. And I'm very passionate about this because I serve an underserved population and they're hearing messages about organic being better. only give your family and you should only be eating organic and that's a personal choice. If you wanna eat organic because it feels right for you and your family and you have the finances to do so, that's great. But don't poo poo on a conventional apple and say that it's toxic and all the chemicals that are sprayed on it are harming your children. If that's the only produce my family can afford right now, you bet you I'm going to support that and encourage them to eat that conventional apple. because we do have plenty of literature that says nutritionally, conventional and organic are no different. It becomes a personal choice. And so that's why I really think a lot of that personal story and anecdotal evidence is very, very harmful. Yeah, I mean, it definitely comes from a place of privilege because there are a lot of people who don't understand what it's like to be hungry or for you to go hungry so your kids can eat. I too work in a very underprivileged population. We started a food pantry in our clinic because our patients were telling us that they didn't have food to eat. And then I post about it online because I was trying to fundraise for our clinics and there were several people who were like, ⁓ canned fruit, you can't even give them like fresh fruit. I'm like, no, I can't because I can't guarantee it'll still be here in a week or that it'll be good or that I'm not giving them moldy apples. And I'm doing the best I can. And I learned a lot from that situation actually. I learned a lot about what canned food goes further and how to make meals in bags and like which food. you know, is gonna be more nutritionally dense. And so I did learn a lot, but the people who came from such a place of privilege, it was like, I hope you understand I'm giving food to people who don't have any food. Not that I'm saying they need to have garbage, but they're eating canned peas. It's okay that they're not fresh organic peas from the garden. Like, it's food that's feeding them and is nutritionally dense. It's a very elitist attitude, I feel like, and it's harmful. You know, we live in a society where... There's not a lot of people that can afford that right now. Inflation rates are unbelievable. And the beautiful thing that dieticians do is they meet patients where they are with what they have accessible to them and what they're willing to do, right? Not every patient is gung-ho and excited to go from the American diet to a plant-based diet. We've got studies that show plant-based eating is really, really healthy and very beneficial to our health outcomes. but maybe they're totally not ready to give up their fried chicken and french fries. And you know what dieticians are great at? Okay, you know what? What are you willing to do? Can you have a salad with your fried chicken and french fries? Let's add in some of that nutritious stuff and then we'll work towards cleaning it out. But making those big claims and just completely overhauling diet rarely works for people. If it did, we wouldn't have the obesity epidemic that we do now. Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. It really is a place of elitism and online especially where things can get extreme. those like elite extreme videos tend to do well. I see it a lot in people who have like the 50 step morning routine of like their 14 supplements and their seven face masks and their jiggling plate and their red light mask and like, love a red light mask. So like, no shame, but like it's all these things. like, first of all, that is thousands of dollars that you're telling everyone is what they need to be well. And then second of all, who has that amount of time? We're all just trying to survive out here. Like, I don't have time for a three-hour morning get ready with me. I gotta go to work and get my kids to school. Yeah, me either. I think another thing that drives me nuts, but it's clickbaity. And it's fear-mongering, but it is preying on people who want a solution, right? We all wanna feel good, look good, feel confident. And when we see... ⁓ a man with his shirt off and he has an eight pack and he's eating raw beef and butter on a cutting board. I want, you I want that body or, you know, the woman in the supermarket and she's got the perfect fit body wearing her lululemons and she's going through picking out, you know, the Lucky Charms cereal and telling you that this is toxic and she would never feed this to her children. You feel so bad about yourself if that is what you are doing. And then you want to look like said person who is selling something for you. and to solve all of your problems. And so it's just very predatory marketing that really, really bothers me, and it is harming our patients who are seeing this content online. Yeah, and it really does change their behavior. I had Dr. Emily Fender on last week, and she has a PhD in health communication, and she studies that, that people who consume the social media, how it changes their perceptions and their behaviors, and it is harmful to us, even if we think that we're immune to it, we're not. I mean, like I said, I see those like... jiggling plates, I'm like, do I need one of those? And it's like, I don't, I don't. I need to go on a walk, I need to go eat some fiber, and I need to drink more water. But it gets in your brain even like when you know, like, probably not, but like you see the videos and then you see a bunch of videos and then it's a trend and it's a fad and everyone's doing it and everyone's saying how great they feel. When in reality, there's no evidence behind it and someone's making $30 from the TikTok shop selling you that. Novel ideas like that and you know, it's really present to our FOMO, that fear of missing out. Because like you said, You see one, you know, jiggle plate and you're like, ⁓ that's cool. And then you see so many and so many great outcomes and you're like, ooh, I wanna do that too, right? So it's just so easy. You know, obviously I see a lot of content online that has to do with hormones. And I still see that interplay with nutrition and hormones. Do you think that's kind of like just building on each other? The fact that like, again, women's health is complex and patients aren't always getting the care that they want. then they also aren't getting the nutrition that they want or need, like the advice that they want or need. And then it kind of is like mirrored that people are like, no one knows anything about women's health and all doctors do is throw birth control at you. And the root cause is that you should eat this estrogen boosting carrot salad. Like, do you think it's more of the same there that people are just like seeing the space that they can take advantage of because like that part of medicine is complex and people feel dismissed? think so. And, you know, that's another tactic that... misinformation kind of uses is just the claim that scientists don't want you to know, but, and then they come up with some outlandish claim and it's like, no, actually, if you've met scientists, want you to know, they would love to talk to you for hours about their research. I promise you, they are not gatekeeping anything. They're so passionate about what they do and they're not making any money from it. You know what I mean? Like PhD stands for piled higher and deeper, know, like their loans. are crazy and they do the research out of the passion for it, out of the knowledge and out of just the desire to advance medicine or nutrition or whatever they're studying. So, no, it's not that scientists don't want you to know, but that is the tactic that is used. It's works, right? Because people are like, ⁓ what don't they want me to know? And then you've watched four more seconds and now the algorithm has rewarded that creator and they're gonna push that out more. And like, that's part of like good content creation, unfortunately, is learning what works and what doesn't in your... early parts of your videos. That's why if you start to think about how you consume social media, you'll start to notice those trends. And I notice them because I'm making content, so I have to analyze myself. Like, why did I watch that video? And is it like a good reason? Can I use that in my own content creation? Or is that like sneaky and I don't like it, but I understand why it works. I actually love when quality content creators use those tactics, because sometimes I'm like, what are you... Did you go to the dark side? And then they're like, I got you, like I was just kidding. Because that hook does work. And so to go back to like what you were saying, like nutrition, hormones, women's health, they are really undermining and they're piling on the society's idea right now that there's a big lack of trust. We're in like a trust recession when it comes to credentialed professionals, right? We are all paid off by big food, big pharma, did all of our training. You know, all of our schooling is tainted, and our advice is just to keep you sicker and sicker, so we make all this money. And... Yeah, so we have more clients. I'm like, you do know that there's more of you people than of us people. There is no shortage of patients. There is a shortage of doctors. Like... 100%. Who wants to get in to see you or me, I have a very big, long wait list. Because I'm just one person, and there's too many people for us to take care of. So, no, we're not like... withholding good information to help our patients feel better. But I think that is what they prey on, prey on to really sell their miracle that no one knows about. know, our thousands of years of science and nutrition research, we're just now finding out these things. You know, I highly doubt that. Well, that's because the stuff that we know it works is boring, right? Like evidence-based medicine, boring. Nutrition advice that's like... steady and logical and like hits all the points boring, right? It's much more exciting to be like, you should only eat meat and butter. And it's because it's simple and it's like, there's something new and like exciting and they're gonna tell you why it's so good for you. But in reality, you know, having a balanced diet of protein and fibers and vegetables and fruits and blah, blah, you know, all the things, like that's boring advice and that makes for a boring video. does, 100%. And... like sexy cells, you know, and novelty cells. Like when there was this misinformation of fruit is like a sugar bomb that was going on for a very long time, they were comparing grapes to a Hershey's bar. And now it's comparing a glass of orange juice to regular Coca-Cola and the sugar is just causing glucose spikes and this is the cause of all your problems. When it's like, ⁓ there's so much science that's missing, that explanation sounds so simple, but really you're missing so much about chemistry and how food works inside our bodies and how they interplay together. And, you know, me just coming on and telling you, oh, you want to lose weight? Yep, just eat more protein. You know, pair your carbs with protein and have fruit or vegetables every meal. It's boring. You're already bored listening to me. You've tuned me out already. But that is, if we want longevity, bone health, cognitive health, heart health, those are the principles that we really need to follow long-term. And then again, people are just taking advantage of one, that lack of education that we're not always able to provide in the office or provide incorrectly, the lack of availability for our patients to go to those experts like the registered dieticians to talk about it. And then the amount of time that you spend online and the people who are able to package the misinformation in a much sexier, exciting way than we ever could. And that's forever the struggle for those of us who do make content online around these topics is trying to balance the getting people's attention, having a good hook, but then being able to spend the next 90 seconds giving evidence-based discussions of what we're talking about rather than just walking up and down a grocery aisle pointing out how bad trick cereal is when actually there are some benefits to it. And if you fit that into your diet, like in other ways, I think that's totally appropriate, but that's for a fun video. it takes practice. Like you had mentioned, like you've studied reels and, you know, clinicians who want to start doing the social media thing, We're pretty bad at the start, right? Like our videos are not great. don't go look at them. Yeah, they're not great, because we're learning all of the social media tactics and we're trying to appease the algorithm. And in 90 seconds, it's very difficult to give all of that nuance and all of the science that we actually have in our brains in a way that is interesting and fun to watch. So it's really challenging to put out really good content, and it takes practice. Yeah, it really does. Now, you said you've seen real-life misinformation or misunderstanding from, you know, a fellow physician saying something to a child. Have you seen in your practice the information that or the misinformation that people get online impacting your patients? All the time. Now, I deal with pediatrics, but I see up to 22 years old. So, they are young adults and they are the generation that was born with an iPhone in their hand, right? And a lot of times what I'm seeing are... it regarding two things. One is weight management. So kids, teens who do want to lose weight, and maybe they need to, you know, if they've got a really elevated BMI and their cholesterol levels are already elevated, I would support that. But one young man had lost, he had lost 45 pounds in like eight months. And that's drastic for his age. He was like 16 or 17. And he really didn't need to lose that much. He went down to like 140. And I asked him, I'm like, what's going on? Like, that's a lot to lose. What did you do? Like, you know, what style of eating? Are you exercising more? And he says, oh yeah, I'm eating less. I'm like, well, how much less? Do you know? Are you counting calories? He says, yeah, I'm eating like 800 to 1,000 calories a day. I said, oh my goodness, you know, I was taken aback. Like, that is too low for any person. And he's like, well, I saw online someone said that this was the calorie range that I need to get to my goal weight. I'm like, oh boy. So I re-educated and said, sweetheart, are a 16, 17 year old teenager. You need a lot of calories, plus your weight training. So we re-educated him in how you can build muscle, lose fat, but still nourish your body. Because what happens in adolescence is they follow these extreme restrictive diets, which is like just eating chicken and broccoli three meals a day and consuming like two gallons of water. Like these are the crazy recommendations. And it comes from... a 45-year-old bodybuilder coach, right? Who knows nothing about adolescent development? And so that's one, so weight management and extreme restrictive diets. And then two is athletes. So teen athletes are getting a lot of their information online. And what I'm also seeing is that parents don't understand sports nutrition, especially women and moms in their 40s. So think about the differences. You see those women, perimenopause, trying to lose the baby weight. So a lot of them do need to and do follow a lower or a low carbohydrate diet. They try not to have a lot of sugars, right? They're very cognizant of carbs. So they portray that message to their teen athlete, like carbs are bad. I had one soccer player say that her dad threw out all of their cereal, like all of their bars, like completely revamped their entire pantry. She was like, there's nothing for me to eat anymore. and I don't feel good. Like I notice I am not running as fast. I'm not performing as well. And I'm like, yeah, because actually for you, who's about to go run for three hours, your Rice Krispies treat or your Lucky Charms cereal actually is pretty good source of energy. And I give that the green light. And it's a very difficult concept for parents to understand that your nutrition at 40 is very different than your teen athletes nutrition. And a lot of misinformation when it comes to sports nutrition is kind of brought into the exam room, and I've got to tease that out for the families. That's so interesting. It's like generational at this point. Right. Like, you know, our generation is now raising children in that same environment. And like, for good or for bad, you know, I always ask my guests, like, do you feel the internet is like net good or net bad when it comes to our fields? And I want to say net good, but we have consumed social media, you know, most of our lives in one way or another. And that has permeated our brain and now our children are, you know, our parenting changes based off of what we have learned online. I've never thought of it being like such a generational thing now. Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of how you were brought up too. And sometimes it's the opposite. Thankfully, if you were brought up in a home that was the clean plate club, which I was, that was very much, you know, part of my generation was like, there's kids starving in Africa, like finish your food. and we had to clean the plate before we could get up. You sometimes swing the other way to where there's so much food freedom that your child kind of walks all over you. And neither of those are right, but we sort of just bring our own lived experiences and how we were raised into the household. And then it's complicated by all of the advice online. Yeah, I'm very thankful for the people who are able to make good, moderate... They don't go to the extremes for the views, but are able to parents, know, moms, teenagers, the, very basic but needed information to make, you know, either raise healthy children or be healthy ourselves. Because I myself go online and I, you know, I am a parent of young children. Sometimes I struggle with, how do I approach this? you know, the, you were saying the, you know, children in India are starving. So you should eat your plate. I do find myself saying that kind of, but in the sense of please don't complain about this home cooked meal I made for you because you have neighbors down the street who don't have warm food. So I don't do it like you have to clean your plate, but I'm trying to teach them gratitude. And I find that hard. Like how do you teach kids to be grateful for having a home cooked meal? So I'm always thankful for experts out there who like, here's how to approach this in the least harmful way. We're probably all gonna harm our children a little bit, but... There are ways that you can talk to them about food, about sex, about birth control, about any topic that we talk about in a way that's moderate and helpful without being like fear-mongering and extreme. Yeah. And, you know, I give credit to parents. It's hard. Like, parenting is so hard. I have a lot of discussions now, you know, about vaccines, and that's a whole nother topic, not nutrition, but parents are so scared right now because there's so much conflicting evidence, advice out there, and we've never really had such a... in guidelines and among governmental bodies. We've all used to be supportive and agree. Now there's a lot of disagreement. So I can see how his parents are like, who on earth do I believe and trust? And that's why it's so important for us to help them and kind of weed that out and just kind of tease that out with them. And I never come with an opinion of like, why would you not do that? Don't you know how harmful that is? Do know how bad that is for your baby? Like you don't wanna fear or scare your patients ever. You wanna come with a lens of curiosity. Like where did you hear about that? I would love to know like why are you nervous about a vaccine? Why don't you wanna give your baby formula, right? Like anything, come with curiosity first because then you can really see like, you know what? I can relate to that. I can see how hard this is to navigate. And I don't envy parents of young babies right now. Like, you know, it's such a hard time to be a mom or a dad right now. So I think that's the lens that we need to go through online or in your exam rooms is just start with curiosity first. And then that really helps soften the conversation to where you can give what the evidence says, but just ultimately know like you are the person that's there to give them that advice and that evidence and to support them throughout this journey. Yeah, that's such wonderful advice. I always say it's my job to give you my advice and it's your job to make a decision that's best for you. And I think that's similar, but finding, like, you know, meeting them where they're at, like you said, and really finding out, like, what they've heard and seeing, like, how does that apply to them, I think is, like, really great advice for anyone listening. I want to get into a little rapid fire with you, okay? Sure, let's do it. What one diet trend do you wish would just completely disappear? Carnivore diet. And I know I'm gonna get some pushback, but I am Team Fiber. Yeah. the way. And the carnivore diet just has no fiber in it. So I really have not seen great evidence that to support long-term health with the carnivore diet. So I wish that would go away. Do you think there's any overrated supplements? Probably melatonin is overrated. I think I support it, and I'm not anti-supplement at all. I think it can be really beneficial. But I think a lot of people should optimize their diet first. and really pay attention to the foods that you are consuming and when you are consuming them. And also we forget to talk about sleep hygiene, other helpful sleep habits. First thing I talk about with sleep is are you scrolling, doom scrolling in bed? If you are, stop. You are not gonna sleep great if that's the last thing you're doing. You don't need a supplement to fix that. Let's again, and influencers love this, let's get to the root cause of why you're not sleeping well. What is one nutritional myth you have to correct daily? Probably the myth that seed oils are toxic, inflammatory, harmful, it is a toss-up between that one and that fruit has too much sugar. I'm constantly telling my patients, no, eat more fruit, please. Like, 90 % of Americans are not consuming enough fruits and vegetables. Like, I promise you the fruit is not gonna send your body into like diabetic keto-atosidosis. So eat your grapes. Eat your grapes. Don't come to my house because of my children. Like, I can't keep fruit in the house because it is gone within two days. So, Mike, I don't need to listen to this podcast. What is your favorite fiber-rich lunch option? I'm a bean girl, so I like a bean salad. I think bean salads are quick and easy because, again, you can buy them pre-made, rinse them off, and throw a variety of beans together. I like to mix in some chopped up... peppers and tomatoes and make it sometimes a little spicy. You can throw some cilantro in there with some lemon. It's fresh. It stays really nice for the whole week. So even just adding beans to anything, it's kind of a sneaky thing. You can use lentils even as like a half and half in your meat mixture. And sometimes kids and adults won't even know. So great way to add fiber to your Sneaky. I've seen that lady on TikTok who makes like the dense bean salad every week. And I'm always like, those look so good. I need to make them. So all right, bean salad it is. What is one food group that is unfairly demonized online? Fruit, I guess. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I would go with fruit, but like, let's take it a step back, because I want to give your listeners something that we haven't talked about. I would say oatmeal or oats in general, because this was maybe like a year ago, was like, oats We're demonizing oats? Yes, we were demonizing oats for a variety of reasons, and it was like, do not eat oats and do not eat oatmeal. It's like what? It's cheap. It's accessible to everybody. It is shelf stable, especially Quaker Oats or whatever quick cooking oats you buy that lasts forever. And you can do a lot with it. You can make it for breakfast. You can make it into protein energy balls. There are so many great things. And oats are a source of whole grain and they've got good fiber. Fiber is a hill I will die on. We need more fiber, so do not be demonizing oats and oatmeal. Yeah, I was making oatmeal the other day and I was adding chia seeds to it and my husband's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm not gonna die of colon cancer, okay? That's what I'm doing. Exactly. Exactly. I put pistachio cream on it, but it doesn't negate the fiber. No, that's another myth that I bust a lot in kids and families is like, getting your kids Nutella with strawberries or Nutella and bananas is bad. And I'm like, no, if that's the only way your child is gonna get a strawberry today, go for the Nutella. It does not remove all of the nutrients. in any slightest way. So it is perfectly fine to do that. Perfect. Colleen, thank you so much for being here. I have learned so much from you. For those of you who are not following Colleen yet, where can everyone find you? Yep, I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn at Exam Room Nutrition. And my podcast is called The Same Thing. It's on Apple or Spotify, Exam Room Nutrition. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Dr. Fran.