Franziska Haydanek: There's so much on social media now that sees intervention as inherently evil rather than a tool to use when something is going different than we thought, to get us back on track. You can decline intervention all the way to an emergency C-section, but you can also thoughtfully choose tools from your toolbox to help us get back on track. Welcome back to I Did My Own Research. I'm Dr. Fran and I'm so honored today to be joined by Jen Hamilton. Hi, Dr. Fran. Hi, Jen. Jen earned her BSN from Liberty University. She started her career in the emergency department before transitioning to being a labor and delivery nurse. And she continues to work bedside while being one of the most influential healthcare voices on social media today. With over 8 million followers across social media, she was known for blending humor, advocacy, and evidence-based education for millions of followers. Yesterday, I watched her fart on camera to prove her point. Through viral videos, public speaking, and national media appearances, she has become a leading advocate from informed consent, maternal health, birth trauma awareness and equitable obstetrical care. She is also bringing her expertise to paper with her new book, Birth Vibe, which comes out tomorrow. Jen, thank you for being here. Hi, Dr. Fran. I'm so excited to be here. I do want your listeners to know how we got here this morning. Can we talk? ⁓ yes, please. Yes. OK. Yes. So I woke up feeling the need to poop. You know, sometimes that hits you. And while I'm on the toilet, bra-less, wearing a shirt. with a chicken on it who's wearing a Santa Claus hat that says, making a list and chicken it twice. Dr. Fran texts me and she said, hey, you know, just making sure you got the link. And I was like, yeah, girl, I'll see you at 10 a.m. And she's like, actually, It's right now. Right this minute. Yeah, right now. So I did send her a picture of myself on the toilet, bra that's wearing a chicken in a Santa Claus shirt. So I... I said, lucky for her, I rarely do anything to get ready. So I did put on a bra for you. Oh, you didn't need to do that. And I brushed my hair. I'm brush and broad. You're brush and broad. You know, I'm going to keep that picture that you sent me in my back pocket for when I need to bribe you to come back for another episode. You can show it. You can put it in here. You can show the people. Oh, good. Oh, I have. OK. We're going to put it in the video. Everyone has to go watch on YouTube. Okay, you and I have been social media buddies for at least four years. And I went back and looked through our DMs to see the first time that we DM'd, was back in 2022. So I have been following you for like quite a long time. But I think when I started following you, I was already like in the upswing of Jen Hamilton. And so I want to get like a little into like the lore of Jen Hamilton. Like how did you start... I assume you did not one day wake up and go, I'm gonna fart into the camera today to make a point about this wellness grifter who's trying to say that you shouldn't get your blood drawn in pregnancy. like, how did we start this process? So I got on TikTok when the pandemic happened, which I feel like that's when a lot of people did because we had nothing else better to do. I didn't start out making videos. I started being a lurker, a watcher. And as the algorithm like learns who you are and what you do, I started getting a lot of like labor and delivery content. And at that moment in my life, I was a new labor and delivery nurse. Cause my, my past self was ER for six years before the labor and delivery. So I still was kind of like learning how to be a labor and delivery nurse. And I saw a lot of our patients, I'm saying our patients, like people that have babies in hospitals, retelling their birth stories that to you and I sound very normal, but they were experiencing it in a traumatic way because they didn't know what to expect or weren't explained what was happening to their bodies. They didn't feel a part of the process. And so it kind of gave me a new perspective going into work, like getting to see the other side of it, like how the way that I interact with my patients can be traumatic for them. And so I started trying to be like the opposite of that at work. and then started sharing the kinds of things that I would see people come in believing that they saw on the internet. And I was like, ⁓ Lord, ⁓ Lord, where did you hear this? They have, show me. Yeah, show me, show me the evidence on that one. So I started making like a little bit of labor delivery content, but I'd say that most of it was like me as a person. So like chicken stuff, mom stuff. My very first like viral series was called Homemaking for the Modern Mom. Because around this time, like, Nara Smith was big, and I was like, ⁓ Lord, that's not me. And that's not I'm not wearing a bra right now. Right, exactly. I'm probably not wearing a bra. So I wanted to kind of satirize, if that's the word, like, the low effort kind of mom that I am. And so I would do Home Making for the Modern Mom, which was just me talking awkwardly into a camera about... a tradwife-type thing that I was doing, whether it was like making dinner or, I don't want to say that's tradwife thing, making dinner. I made dinner last night, am I a tradwife now? I took things that I saw very aesthetic people doing aesthetically, and I would do it the opposite of that. So if it was like doing laundry, I would talk about leaving it in there for three days and then re-washing it and then leaving it in the dryer for four days and then... putting it on my bed so that I would make myself fold it. And then it's time for bed. Pushing it. Pushing I was gonna say, I just put it on the laundry chair. It's like one step ahead of that. Yeah, laundry chair. Exactly. Laundry chair. I tried to like force myself to fold laundry better by putting it on my bed. It doesn't work like that. No. It doesn't. No. So that was a viral series that I had, like my publisher... I just wrote a book about birth and it's doing really well. And so in talking about allegedly maybe a second book. allegedly. Yes, girl. Exciting. We were talking about like, well, know, you're a labor and delivery nurse on the internet. Like, because I was talking about I want to go broader than birth. And they're like, well, do you like a labor and delivery nurse? Like, would that not work? And I did a poll. and asked people why they follow me. Is it for labor and delivery or something else? And the split was labor and delivery 13%. ⁓ interesting. 87%, something else. Chickens, 80 % chickens. Parting into the camera also. Yes, good. OK, perfect. So your reach really is much more than labor and delivery, but I think that's how many of us, maybe I, because I too, like the algorithm learned me, and they're like, you a must watch. videos by Jen Hamilton about, and you know, at that time, when I started watching you back in 2022, I think a lot of us were making very direct content like this is what folic acid is and why it's important. This is why vitamin K is important. I remember, you know, there was a lot of videos and that's still important, but I do feel in some ways that your content has shifted over the years, right? When 2022, 2023, 2024 was still very much you chatting into the camera, talking about why we recommend things, talking about how patients can advocate. for themselves, those kind of things. And I feel it has shifted into like a broader discussion for you over the years. Definitely. And I found that like, you know, there's some people that make content that's very like aggressive and stuff. I, whether it's like a wellness person or whatever, like your doctor doesn't want you, you know, like that. And so I found that when you talk to people like... like they're like they have sense and they, know, that you are just here to give them the information that they need to make decision. And you kind of take that pressure off, like you must do X, Y, Z. I feel like people, people hear it easier and hear it better. Cause I know that I don't learn stuff if somebody's yelling at me. So I kind of wanted to be that like space in between the hospital. and the wellness grifters, where I recognize that you want to do things, you know, naturally, and I recognize that you want to, you know, keep your baby safe. Like, all of these things are very valid, and how can we get there safely? So, I think that the way that we talk to people is so important. Yeah, when it comes to you, like, sitting... Because when I watch your videos, it feels like I'm, sitting with someone who is just gonna, talk your way through it. I think... for those of us who take care of patients, and especially in the office, feels, know, I'm not very much on a time crunch. So like I have to get through the information quickly and make you feel like I gave you everything that I could. And I feel like something with your content, it's just sitting and chatting. Yeah, yeah. And it's the thing that we all wish we could do in the moment, you know? There's one thing that I have the benefit of that you as a physician do not, which is that when I'm in the hospital, I'm usually caring for one person. And I talk about that in the book that, you know, your doctor is caring for so many people, you know? And so you may expect them to be able to like spend time with you during the day and be there for you like you wish that they could, but you don't have that benefit of that time that you can give to everybody. So a lot of times your nurse can spend more time with you, but even if your nurse isn't like, wanted to be the kind of person who could pregame with you before you go into the hospital. talking about these things. The other thing is there's a lot of new nurses who may not even have the background knowledge of what, I don't want to say of what we're talking about, but like there's a lot of why that takes a long time to fully understand. I don't think I'll ever understand, like we all learn, know, like every day we learn new things. And so I hoped to kind of also be talking to nurses. vicariously through the patient conversation to kind of give language to how we can talk to people in a way that doesn't make them feel stupid, but kind of gives them the more context about what we're talking about. I think the thing that I've loved about social media is that I feel I've become a better doctor because of it. Because of all the different type of people I follow, labor and delivery nurses, doulas, other obstetricians. And when I learn... from them, because in residency, you learn from your same 10 attendings, right? You have your residency classmates, and that's kind of it. And you only learn your way. So I learned my hospital's way, and that was it. And once you step outside of that, either with a new job or with social media, you learn more and you become better. So there are things that I've learned from all different members of our team. when it comes to taking care of patients that I wouldn't have otherwise. And I think that's like one really important thing for anyone in health care is that you can, if you can step outside of just like your physical space, the space that you work in every day and learn from other people and like maybe there's different ways that you can place a Foley ball. Maybe there's a different way that you can consent to patient. Maybe there's a different way that you can talk to a patient as you're rolling them back for a stat. because no one taught you to say, you know, like you have a very many quotes that I'm sure many labor and delivery nurses now say, you know, like, I'm not scared and you know, all those kinds of things. No one would have learned that if it wasn't for like you scrolling through TikTok that day. So I do think it's really important that you can use social media as a way to educate yourself on how to be a better like healthcare professional. Yeah, and I think it's important that we're on social media. I know that you've said this before, because there's gonna be other people on social media. We might as well be there too, you know, because... There's so many people that, and you're right, I've learned so much. I mean, not just like what I talked about with learning from the patients themselves, you know, how this experience affects them, but also like other specialties, like you're saying, like pediatricians and, you know, MFM docs and anesthesiologists. you know, I've become so much more knowledgeable about things just by these little bite-sized... pieces of information that I can also give to my patients. So I'm very grateful for social media for that. Yeah. And I think, you you really make a voice for labor and delivery nurses, but also give them a voice and also in a way teach them. And I know you've gone to many like A1 conferences and have spoken at a lot of places. And I think your book, Birth Vibes, is an extension of that. Now, I remember... I think I was there kind of for like the birth of Birth Vibes. I remember you, you were talking about people's birth plans and like my preference for that is I like the word birth preferences. And think that's kind of where you were started with Birth Vibes. So tell us a little bit about like what Birth Vibes the document first was and how that has now transitioned to this like incredible book for patients and for birth workers. Yeah, so I started to see both online and in the hospital how... Very strict birth plans can cause sometimes trauma, disappointment, grief, and even like low self-esteem, self-worth. Like if things are not going how you wanted them to. I'll give an example of I had somebody one time who had in her birth plan that she was not going to push, that she was going to have the fetal ejection reflex and the baby was just going to come out. Well, we stayed completely dilated, completely dilated, unepiduralized for 10 hours. No, ow. So, you know, the whole time I'm helping to update her on information, you know, like, hey, the longer we don't have a baby, like, your chances of not awesome things happening, both to you and your baby increases. And so we had to have this moment of, you know, letting go of some of the... expectation, you know? It wasn't that anything bad happened, anything wrong happened. It was that she had seen online this expectation from people who maybe have only had two babies themselves and it just happened that way for them. So they set it up as an expectation for someone else. But we had this, you know, emotional moment of like, my body failed me. No, babe, it did not. It absolutely did not. I saw that, I saw that side, and then I saw that you could also have birth plans that go completely to plan. Every single thing checks off on your list that you wanted. But then hearing stories of people online saying like, I wasn't heard, I didn't feel supported, my environment sucked, like my support person left me. And what I noticed was that it was so much less. about the checklist of what happens or what you want to happen and so much more about those extrinsic things, those intangible things that can either create or destroy a positive experience for you. So that's when I started talking about birth vibes and just meaning like this cocoon of safety around you so that you have space to adapt to new information if it comes. You may... come in and everything is exactly how you wanted it and that is awesome. And also it is a good idea to be thinking about how you need to be cared for as a human in order to feel safe. So that's where the birth vibes thing came from. And I started having people tell me like, hey, this is how I went into the hospital. I told my team what I needed and it went awesome. But then they go on to explain like. I had like ⁓ an emergency C-section, and then they're telling me that it was such a good experience. I'm like, this is different. Like this, normally, they're like, yeah, that wasn't fun at the time, but I knew that my team understood what I needed as far as like communication, support, et cetera. So I was like, hey, I think I'm onto something here. And so whenever it came time to write a book, that's just kind of what I wanted to talk about. know, you have shown parts along the way of writing a book. It seems... Like a daunting task. How did you even like think about where to start with that? Like are we, like did you start like, okay, we're gonna go with the medical things first. I'm gonna tell you what rupturing your bag of water means. I'm going to talk to you about how an epidural is placed or is it really coming from like a place of advocacy and this is like how you're gonna talk to your team so that you can get the best vibes that we can. Yeah, so... For me, in writing Birth Vibes, it came from my own experiences and seeing births that went different, but ended up being positive, transformative experiences. So, I wanted to start with that. I wanted to show that this is what can actually happen even if things go different. So, the whole first half of the book are stories. They're HIPAA-compliant stories of things that really did happen in my... presence in my work. You know, I would take like two, three, four patients and kind of mesh their stories together to kind of weave a new story. And in each of the first few chapters, it's talking about a different vibe that can be seen within that chapter. like communication, like how does that impact your experience or like your support people, who is there for you and what are they doing? Because that has a really big impact on your experience. The first, the whole first half is just showing you what's possible. And then the second half is like, ⁓ easy to digest information that I wish everybody knew coming in. Like what is an IUPC and why might we think that that might be a good idea? Because I think that there's so much on social media now that sees intervention as inherently evil rather than a tool to use when something is going different than we thought. to get us back on track. Because I tell people all the time, can decline intervention all the way to an emergency C-section. That's exactly where it goes. But you can also thoughtfully choose tools from your toolbox to help us get back on track in using those thoughtful. Of course, we don't open our toolbox and throw every single intervention at somebody who's spontaneously laboring and everything's going awesome. Like that's when things can get caused in negative way. But thoughtfully choosing things that exist for this purpose can absolutely protect your experience from unwanted intervention down the line. Yeah, I always think of it as using the smaller intervention to prevent the big intervention, right? So sure, we could, we're trying to, your labor is starting to slow down. We could just wait, but eventually maybe your baby tanks or you tank or whatever. And then now we're all of a sudden at the big intervention of a C-section when we could talk about the intervention of pitocin instead, see if that helps your uterus and then get you towards the goal of the vaginal delivery and avoiding that much bigger intervention. And another example of that is like, and I know that you've seen this all the time too, is that induction is inherently evil, you know? And sometimes I see people who decline induction all the way to 42 weeks and then they come in ruptured with thick mech and lates and we're not even in labor yet, you know? And so then there's this grief of like, hey, I thought that waiting to 42 weeks was gonna be fine because my body's doing it on its own. And so then we're starting labor in a not awesome situation. So then if we keep going, you know, it can get... So, yeah, I think that thinking of things as tools and not as good or evil, you know, it just depends on the situation. think that, like, especially for inductions, you know, obviously I talk about elective inductions a lot because I needed to have an elective induction so badly for myself that when there was a chance I was not gonna get it, I, because of, like, staffing and stuff, I was, like, losing my mind. And... I, and I hear this from patients too, because I think people like don't like to talk about elective inductions online as much because a lot had one. You did? Yeah. Oh, I don't think I've ever, I didn't know that. thought you had preeclampsia. can talk about it. I did for my second one. Oh, with your second? I was... Okay, tell us about it. Yeah, so... Why did you want an elective induction? I didn't even know that was a thing. So, I, and my doctor's retired, so I feel like I can tell the story now. But, so I had an awesome pregnancy for my first... baby, everything was fine. At the end, I was like, I'm tired of being pregnant. I was not a labor and delivery nurse at the time. I was an ER nurse. So whenever I went in, I was telling my nurses, like, please do not treat me like a nurse, because I have no idea what we're talking about here. So it was, my due date was January 5th, maybe? I don't remember. It was something in No, you're right. I don't remember my due dates either. I would have to, calculate it. So I went into... one of my later appointments and my doctor was like, do you want an induction? Like before the New Year's and get like a tax deduction. I was like, I haven't thought about that. Taxes, that's important. But he's like, yeah, there's an Ava Brothers concert I want to go to. ⁓ my God. I mean, I love the Ava Brothers, but that's kind of funny, but also terrible. He was that kind of guy that would like joke around this stuff. He's like, you know. We just get you delivered and then I'll be free. But I was very down for that. I was very down for that. was like, hell yeah, man. So did someone tell you about it beforehand or they were just like, you want to have a baby? And you said, sure. you got signed up. bro. I showed up and learned about it in the moment as it happened to me. Awesome. Yeah, but I had a really good elective induction experience. So we did like one of those midnight inductions where you go in at midnight. did... We don't use this anymore. I don't know if y'all use it. Servadil. guys use We took it off formula. It was too expensive. Yeah, same. Same. Yeah. So I got a Servadil. And then in the morning time, they started pit and broke my water. And then I had a baby at 1121. So it was almost 24 hours. There was nothing in that experience that implanted as traumatic to me. I was just like rolling with the punches. I did. I did think that I was gonna go without an epidural because my mom did. I thought that just being related to somebody who did that was enough. My mom is very, has a super high pain tolerance, very chill. And so she said she just breathes her way through it. And I was like, me too, girl. That's what I'm gonna do. Now I passed out getting my ears pierced. So that probably wasn't ever in the cards for me. But I got to about three centimeters and my dad... came to visit me in the hospital. And I didn't know that he did because he walked in, saw me, and walked back out. It was like, there's an exorcism going on in there. ⁓ God. I wouldn't want my dad there when I was in labor. No, no, was very clear to me. I think he thought since I was like early, like all was well. All was not We would be chilling. All was not well. All was bad. And so it was, but... It was right after he broke my water. Like that was the turning point for me. Whereas like one contraction, we're chill, we're fine. He breaks my water. The next contraction, we're not okay. That was the moment. So, yeah. Do you think though now, reflecting on that, one, obviously I'm assuming you feel that you should have been told a little bit more about what this process is, right? And we hear this from people... online a lot. No one told me what this was. No one like gave me true informed consent. No one told me the risk benefits alternatives of this. Like I'm so happy that you had a positive experience with your induction, but many people don't because no one tells them like when we break your water, it could get more intense. product, ⁓ inductions, if you're starting at zero centimeters, this is going to take three days on average. You are going to get a servidel. You're going to get six-sided techs. You're going to have fully bum balloon. And then maybe we'll talk about Pitocin. Maybe. And their faces when you tell them that is like, Yeah, no one told you. Especially the dads too. They're like, oh, get cozy. Yeah, get cozy, bring in your gaming system. Oh, yeah. I'm sure you've seen many dads bring in their whole gaming system. We had somebody bring in like a 50-inch TV. Because their gaming system wouldn't hook up to our TVs. Oh, my god, get a switch. left, went to Best Buy. came back with the 50... I don't even know if that's the... a huge TV. Brought it in, got it out, the screen was cracked. was like, karma. That's what you get. Yeah, I think I would have a lot to say if my husband was bringing in a 50-inch TV to play video games for three days. I my husband was charting when I was laboring with He was, he was. He was like doing his inbox and I was like, whatever, I don't care. Like, I don't... This is my third baby, my epidural's failing, it's fine. No, your epidural's failing. No, it's terrible. But the point being, I feel so strongly about elective inductions that people understand that it should be an option offered that you should have full informed consent about it, because you shouldn't go into it being like, I'm just gonna have my baby in six hours. Like, you're very unlikely to do that if you're a first time birthing person. But I do believe that everyone deserves the option and I... I get so much pushback on it on TikTok with people are like, you're the reason that there's maternal mortality in this country and we never do this in Denmark and whatever. It's like, that's fine. Don't have an elective induction in Denmark then. But there are many people who want an elective induction and feel that they can't talk about it or feel that they're ashamed because they aren't doing it naturally or go into it knowing they want it. I knew what I wanted. Break my water, give me Pitocin, put that needle in my back. Those are the vibes that I was going for. And then people are like, well, you weren't informed. was like, Babe, I was an OB resident. I lived and breathed in ductions. Like, there's probably not a lot of people who are more, like, knowledgeable about this right now than myself, so... I am pro-choice, you know? And that includes people being offered options that maybe somebody else wouldn't want. Oh, that's okay. Like, I think that we sometimes infantilize women by saying, like, okay, well, we're not even gonna make this an option because someone else doesn't wanna, you know? And that's not, I mean, we need to know that we're big girls and big boys, you know? We can make decisions for ourselves. And so one of those decisions for me was an elective induction. Another decision for me was my blood pressure is 180 over 110. Oh my God, Jen. So... Yikes. I probably should have a baby today. So yeah, with that one, what woke me up on the day that he was born was... that I could count my heartbeat in my fingers. Oh, that's a new symptom. I don't know why I would do it someone came to triage with that complaint. I would be like, what? Yeah, it was like, could feel my heartbeat everywhere, my face, like, everywhere. So I got up out of the bed and I was like, I should check my blood pressure. 180 over 110. I called my doctor and they didn't call me back. Were you a labor and delivery nurse at this point? Oh, you still weren't? Neither one of them was I labored. Yeah. So my youngest is nine and I've been a labor and delivery nurse for eight years. So... you go into labor and delivery because of your own birth experiences? I did. I did. that and also working in the ER, couldn't do it anymore. I was just like, I can't. It was too... The last year that I was in the ER, I was the assistant director. It was too much. It was too much. And especially with the family and everything, I was working all the time. I was like, I can't do this anymore. So I had Are you watching the pit right now? Or have you watched it? Is it giving you, like, PTSD flashbacks? I'm the worst person to watch it with because I'm just guessing what's gonna happen. My husband is also a nurse, so he, like, gets it. You know, somebody came in with, like, yelling at the skin, and they were, you know, asked her, do you drink or whatever? was like, I wonder if that's nash. He's like, what? I'm just, like, make, you know, just guessing stuff that I've seen before. I congratulate myself too much whenever I get it right. You know, I'm like, did you hear me? I said that. I guessed that. I guessed that. So your own birth experience. So you were a labor and delivery nurse. Life is hard. You have two young babies. Did you like love the idea of being there like for birth? Or was it more like an advocacy thing for you? So what I have to be honest, what really drew me to the labor and delivery position was a schedule. I would just, at that point, I would just to anything else. You could have had me. sign up for a squirrel dialysis nurse. And I said, I would say that's right there. So it was because it was a weekend position. So was like, ⁓ man, that sounds amazing. So I saw that position on a Friday night. I shadowed on labor and delivery on Sunday, two days later. And I walked in. And first of all, there's like maybe, I don't know, 10 patients on the board. There's 15 nurses in huddle. I was like, who are y'all, why are y'all don't need to be here. There's only 10 patients, which means there should be two nurses, you know? So- ER staffing model. Yeah. So I was very confused, but then I realized that, you know, there's a low nurse to patient ratio. I was like, that's awesome. And then I got to see these nurses be involved in people's most impactful days and how they, you know, comforted people and they were there with people. like emotionally, spiritually, physically, in all the ways. And that's something that I never could do in the ER. There just was no time, you know? And it was like everything that I ever wanted to be as a nurse, I saw it happening in real life. And I was like, this is it. I can't believe they pay y'all to do this. This is awesome. Can I pay you? Yeah. What is going on? This isn't a volunteer position. So, yeah. And then I made the switch, like... I had accepted the job by the next week and then, you know, had to transition. But I had such positive experiences with my nurses that I wanted to be that for somebody else. Like, they made me feel so seen and so loved and like that there was nothing that I could do that was embarrassing. Like, they were the ultimate girls girl. And that's how, that's what I wanted to be for somebody else, a girls girl, you know? you could put a turd directly in my hand, bare-handed, and I will be here for you. I will be here right for you. I mean, I do love that about our world is that it's really just like girls taking care of girls for the most part. We have a couple men and we love them, but for the most part, you know, like, I think like 90 % of OB residents are female, you know, the majority of us at this point. know, almost all of our nurses are female. There's a couple men out there, but it's girls taking care of girls, you know? You know what, even those men... I consider them girls girls. I do. I I'll walk up and like, hey girls, yep, I mean you Parker, you're a girl today too. That's okay. And I think that they embrace that too. Absolutely. I want to talk. That was all really positive. Thank you for sharing. But also. content creation is also hard and you, as I, have been threatened with being like, I'm gonna report you to the board of nursing, I'm gonna call your hospital. Like how often is that actually happening? Has anyone actually reported you to boards or your own hospital? Yeah, I got so, back whenever I was explaining that, you know, taking away healthcare from people is probably not, like as a Christian myself, hey, it's probably not what Jesus would have done, you know? taking immigrants away from their families and put it, like that's probably not where Jesus would have stood on this issue. Didn't read that one in the Bible. Yeah, so what I did was I got my Bible and read Matthew 25 and then put up things that were the opposite that people were celebrating. And that one got me in the mostest trouble. I'm not even gonna say trouble. I got an email from the Board of Nursing that said, hey, just so you know, you're being reported a lot. And we just wanted to tell you that you're being reported a lot, just so you know, you're not gonna, there's no investigation, but just to be aware. I've had people call my work, like when I was, ⁓ I was raising money for World Help in like, what's it called? The kitchen, World's Kitchen for Gazans, like I was raising money for food in Gaza. And they took that as me being anti-Semitic. So then I got people calling my hospital saying that I hated Jews. I was like, what is going on? I'm trying to feed people. Like, what is happening? It always awful for sure. But I try to, and I know you try to, we try to live our lives in a way that like, if it got reported, what are you reporting me for? Like correcting misinformation, you know, or like, you know, raising money for people or calling out, like advocating for healthcare, you know? So... There's always gonna be people that want to cancel you. But my question to myself now is, I'm gonna be canceled, who do I want to be canceled by? And the people that are trying to cancel me, I'm okay with it. They would be canceled by MAGA. Yeah, it's always like the thing where people say like, if the people who are talking about you, if you wouldn't go to them for advice, then it doesn't matter what they're saying about you. And like, you know, there's gonna be people who disagree with you philosophically, religiously, any of those things. But if it's... if you don't even align with them anyway, and you know in your heart you're being a good person, and like what you're doing is trying to feed children or trying to make sure that, you know, people feel seen and heard, like in the end, the right people will stand by your side for them. But I do think it's hard when you're a content creator, and especially when you're an employed healthcare professional, because like you still work at the bedside. I mean, you financially don't have to. but you do, do you find that that's an important thing for you to remain in that space? Yeah, I have no desire to stop. I have no desire to slow down. I know that in this next season of my life, as I'm doing like book tour stuff, like it's gonna be very difficult. There are some times where I'm like flying somewhere Thursday night, speaking on Friday, flying back Friday night so that I can make it to work on Saturday. So I'm only taking like a couple weeks off during like the... the craziest part of the book tour. ⁓ But I don't want to stop. It's not become too much for... I mean, sometimes it is too much, but I just kind of push through. Yeah. Move some things around and you make it work. I mean, I've seen you talk, like, buddies coming in, like, really, you came in early and they came in early and you make it work. I have the same, you know, I'm going to DC with Figs in May for advocacy work, talking to Congress. And one of my partners was like, yeah, I'll take your calls. Like, well, let me know what call like to take for you. She's like, no, this is important. And I was like, that is like the kindest thing that like anyone has done for me in like the last year. Cause like it's a lot to go to like pick up a call for someone. Mostly we switch, so it's even, but I just thought that was so kind for them to like put out their life a little bit so that you can pursue like... these crazy things that we do through social media, which I think is really kind. But my friends and colleagues are so supportive and I find that, like, I'm just so thankful for that. Because, it could be the opposite, right? Like, you could have your bosses be like, nope, you can't have off, no, you can't come in early to, like, relieve someone early. Like, no, you can't ever talk about work ever again, you know? I think it's hard to, like, still be working and having to be, like, shifts that you have to show up for, especially when there's a lot of cool opportunities. I imagine you are going to a lot of cool places for your book tour. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of places, and it's still kind of in the works right now, but I'm going to like New York and LA and like big places. I'm like, ooh. Yeah. Ooh. What do I wear? I know. Right where my Christmas trick and shirt is. Yes, I'll put a bra on. But advocacy for you, it has been a big part of your platform as well. feel especially over the last couple of years, it really has like picked up and it's not just always like healthcare advocacy. It's, know, tell us about... the man that you met on the airplane the other day. So I was flying back from LA and it was a direct flight from LA to Raleigh and I was getting settled in the plane and I happened to be able to sit in first class this time because I had credits from a canceled flight or a canceled trip the year before had four days to use it. So I was like, hell yeah, girl. Let's first class. Yeah. I'm gonna fly first class. So I was getting settled and I heard some commotion. And on a plane, I'm always on alert, you know, because I always think it's gonna go down. That's just my anxiety, you know? I'm always chill on the outside, but I'm always thinking like, what was that noise, you know? That and is someone having a medical emergency. That's always on me. I'm all to look for. I mean, I do want to ask you, is it your biggest fear or your biggest goal to deliver a baby on an airplane? It would, okay. You give me somebody term. You give me a term person who just like water breaks and they go into labor and have bit, hell yeah. I know, it's my biggest dream. Oh, I would love that. If you say, hey, I've got this 23-weeker, you know, who's... Yeah, no, I don't want to be part of that. Oh, geez, that would scare the crap out of me. But yeah, that happened recently on a flight I saw that somebody delivered a baby and I was like... People live in my dreams out I know, it really is my dream. But we'll see someday. Dang, I know. Anyway, so you're on the plane, there's no one birthing, but there's commotion. Yeah, heard a commotion, heard people yelling, saying like, this is not right, I can't believe they would do this to us. I'm like, what is going on? So I like, look over and I see this family, it's ⁓ two older people and what looks to be like a middle-aged daughter. And they were... I didn't hear this guy saying there's this thing in there's this thing called the Americans with Disabilities Act that says that I can have my service animal. I was like, surely these people are not giving this man trouble about a service animal because I look over and the man is wearing sunglasses. So context clues I'm getting he is blind and they keep going and there's like this argument. So this this family has what they call a service animal and I can't I can't say for certain. that it was or wasn't. If you do have a legit service animal though, that dog should not care that there's another dog anywhere near them. Like that, they're trained to not care. It's very extensive training for these dogs. Yeah, exactly. So they had another dog and they didn't want to be anywhere near this man with his dog. So they called over a flight attendant. The flight attendant sees that it's like something that needs to be escalated. So he escalates it to what they call a red coat, something like that, like a Delta person. And I was like, what is the problem here? So I pipe up and I was like, I will sit with him. Like, what did, because I'm across the aisle. So I was like, that is an honor. I would love to sit with him. And so I traded places with the family that was upset, or at least one of them, and got to sit beside the coolest dude ever. And we talked, like, I don't like talking on a plane. ⁓ yeah, I'm not a talker. No, this is silent headphone time. I want to put my headphones in, close my eyes, and I'll see you when we get there. So, but, I was so, like, enamored with this man who we talked about, like, obviously what just happened, you know, like that was crazy, we kind of debriefed from it, and then, you know, we kind of got to know each other. And then I found out that he was the head of accessibility at GitHub, and so he is responsible for making sure that... people who live with disabilities have access to technology. I was like, how cool is that? And while I'm sitting next to him, he's got his phone out, which by the way, the screen is completely black. And he's like, beep boop, beep boop, beep boop, boop, beep, boop, boop. And I was like, you have to tell me how that works because I don't see anything. So he made his phone accessible to me by turning on the screen. And then he showed me like he has different commands and stuff on his phone that he knows what is, what it's doing without, you know. So I was so impressed. And I think that because he lacks the ability to see his other, I don't want to say senses, but it could be senses, but his other faculties kind of are heightened. So he listens to books at 600 words a minute. Oh my God. Yeah. And I was like, excuse me. words. So he let me hear it and it's like... I was like, how do you... I couldn't even put that in mean, barely listen to a podcast at like 1.3. Like I was like... And then sometimes I have to like slow it down, go back and slow it down. know? Yeah. I was so impressed with him. So I still keep up with him. We're doing a fundraiser right now, which by the time this comes out, it'll probably be over. But we're raising money for the seeing eye. And so we're just trying to put out good in the world. I mean, how much money do you think that you have fundraised at this point? Over a million dollars. That's amazing. I mean, you really should be proud of that. You know, like, all the other work that you do is obviously very important on, like, an individual basis for everyone who sees your videos when it comes to making decisions for their birth and their babies, and your book obviously will be so impactful on an individual basis. But this fundraising that you do kind of, I mean, not just kind of, like, but truly out of, the goodness of your heart, like, changes, like, lives in so many different ways. And I just want to, like, you know, congratulate you for that. I that's really incredible. mean... I think it's hard to find how do you take social media success and try to translate that to good for other people. And I think not a lot of people have quite figured that out the way that you have. Yeah, I think that I felt a sense of responsibility in the world. And it's kind of why I talk about hard stuff too. It's like, you know, I have this platform. Why would I not talk about health care problems? You know, even if it's political, you know, like, I think that at some point I had to like... take a stand and let people know where I stood, even if that made people feel isolated or like they weren't on my side. I'm just, you know, letting you know where I stand on stuff. Yeah, no. Well, I just so congratulate you on that work. I think it's incredible. I want to go a little lighter for the last couple of minutes and do a little quick rapid fire with you. You and I are now both, I like market designers. You have worked with them for years. You were the reason I started wearing their headbands years ago, because... They're so wonderful. My collection just came out by the time this is recorded and published. I'm so excited. It was so, so much fun to think about, what do I want to make specifically for, like, my labor and delivery girlies, my OBGYN girlies, my gynecology-only girlies. And so it's been really fun. Of all the headbands that you have helped design, which one was your favorite? I know which one is my favorite of yours. man, this is so hard. Do you know how many? ⁓ my goodness. Okay, so they took... I like to paint. I don't do it very often, but they took a mural that I had made on my wall in my kitchen. They had me take pictures of it and they put that on a headband. Yeah, I love that headband. I have that headband. I love it. I thought that was so cool that they could do that. Yeah. My favorite one of yours is the green one with the chickens on it. Yes. Yes. I think it's the henifer. I think it's the one that they called it. I think it's really cute. Okay. What's your favorite vaccine? Oh, I'm to be funny. Okay. That'd be funny. Vitamin K. Because it's not a vaccine. Because it's not a vaccine. But everybody thinks it is. Yeah, it's a vitamin. We love vitamins. But past that, from a personal note, the chicken pox one. ⁓ Dr. Beachjump said the same thing. Because I, in the eighth grade, got chicken pox and thought I was going to die. ⁓ no. I... was so miserable for two whole weeks of my life. I've got scars from it. I don't know if you... Oh, you do? There's one right there. yeah. But, yeah, I have scars. It was so awful for me. And to know that my children won't have to experience that, Ugh, I love that. Um, okay. What has been your favorite benign insult that you have used? And I'll give you an example of what I mean. My favorite of yours is ⁓ unfrosted pop tart. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What is your favorite that you have called someone? There's been so many. I think that my favorite thing to do is give them benign, like, wishes, terrible wishes for them. Right? Yes. I I have enjoyed that new shift. Yes. I'm gonna put crawfish in your tennis shoes. I'm gonna put shrimp in your heating vents in your car. I don't know why I have such an affinity for shellfish in my... Is that a Southern thing? I don't know. I don't know. Because we don't talk about crawfish in the North. No. They're like little baby lobsters. I just imagine punching your toe. Yeah. And also, insults that people have called us. I know that you have some too. Oh, shit. A whole list. I love making merch from things that people meant to be mean to me. So, I got called a science skunk. Oh, I did love the science skunk. That was by... I don't remember his name, but that was fun. He was talking about how, you know, babies never need vitamin K. And also had asked him for his evidence and he used this paper that was like, more and more families are refusing vitamin K, whatever. That was the title. He didn't read it and said the whole paper was about how doctors can be better communicators of science to ⁓ increase adherence to vitamin K. But anyways, that dude called me that. I got called a dumb whore with a degree. That was a good one. I made merch out of that. There's someone who called me a godless woman who believes in science. So I put that one on a t-shirt. So there's also just believes in science version for my god-believing people. But I was like... This is like, wow, you really like saw me for who I am there. And I appreciate that. There's a good like, I mean, I feel like our haters are our best understanders of who we are. Yes. Thank you for seeing me. You know, truly. OK, last one, Will It Swaddle? Who was the or who or what was the hardest to swaddle in that series? OK, I had a cat named Oliver who is grumpy. He was one of those smooshed face cats. And he was so angry. He was singing the whole... Yeah, he was the hardest to I thought you were gonna say like your husband. That, I mean, that was hard for different reasons. You know, it's hard to find a blanket that big. Because he's like a tall man, right? He looks big. He's six feet. But yeah, he was at least very cooperative, you know? ⁓ yeah, not like all over the smushed back cat face. And being able to swaddle something real good. What was your favorite to swaddle and all of that? My little baby chickies. I'd take like, it was one of them, I had like glasses. What do call it? The little thing that you... The cloth, the glasses. ⁓ like a glasses cleaner? Yeah, like just the cloth that's like the special fabric. Like microfiber. one those and that was the perfect size to swaddle like a little baby chick. had a group of eggs that only one of them hatched and so it was so lonely all the time and it would, it needed love and so if I held it, would just like snuggle up in my neck. I would swaddle it and it ⁓ my God. I saw the cutest little video. This child must have been like five years old. I don't know how he got to making a TikTok. He's like holding the phone up and he goes, guess what? And then zooms over and there's a little chicken in I saw that one. chicken butt. I was like, these kids are hilarious. I know. ⁓ my God. All right, Jen, for the two people listening who don't follow you, where can everyone find you on the internet? And where can we find your book? Yeah, if you look up Jen Hamilton, you should be able to find me. There's only one other Jen Hamilton and it's... should be very obvious that we're different people. And then if you're looking for my book, can look up Birth Vibes anywhere you get your books, and that's where it'll be. We're so excited for you, Jen. Thank you for being here on I Did My Own Research. Thank you.