Jasmine Jain: Welcome back to another episode of Pushing Over the Box. Today I'm so excited to be talking to Jonathan Chmelensky. Jonathan is a principal dancer with the Royal Danish Ballet, for his technical precision and expressive performances. ⁓ is also the recipient of the 2022 Royn Mart Award Best Dancer. ⁓ I'm excited to talk to him, so let's get right into it. ⁓ Hi thank you so much for being here today. Jonathan Chmelensky: Hi, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Jasmine Jain: So when did you first start dancing and did you fall in love from the beginning? Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, come from a family of dancers. ⁓ my grandparents on my mother's side were dancers. And first memory of dance was basically me watching my grandmother giving class to young ⁓ kids. And was in the corner. And I was waiting my grandmother to be done with her class so that we could go home. And ⁓ I... Jasmine Jain: Mm-hmm. Jonathan Chmelensky: all of sudden had the urge to try to imitate what was being done and then stood up, started sort of practicing. My grandmother looked at me and was like, well, if you want to do it, then you have to do it properly. And so the next time, next week, joined class basically, and it was more out of curiosity, not necessarily with this sort of objective it becoming a more serious thing. I think it grew on me with time. But more than just being sitting watching other people dance, I felt I wanted to dance as well. Jasmine Jain: What did your training journey look like? Jonathan Chmelensky: So first started with my grandmother as I said, slowly surely when I got to get to perform I started loving more and more the craft and understood what it meant to be a ballet dancer ⁓ and very much started enjoying more and more to the point where I started doing editions for better schools. So I got to a pre-professional sort of program called Jasmine Jain: Yeah. Jonathan Chmelensky: and a school that's called Stanlova in Paris. Then eventually I joined the National ⁓ which is called CNSM, Conservatoire National Supérieur in Paris, where had some really, really great teachers. And when I was 18 years old, I joined the Ballet School of Cuba, where I trained there for another year and a half. And then of, I was lucky enough that out of that I directly got a contract to join the Royal Danish Ballet when I was 19 years old. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And when did you first discover that ballet could be more than just an after-school hobby? Jonathan Chmelensky: I think for me what really made the difference was that I enjoyed performing. don't think some people... Even young, I had this great souvenir, really being on stage, seeing the lights, seeing the audience behind the curtain. And at that moment when that happened, when I... realized, wow, I'll end up in it and we did the show and then the show finished. And then all of a sudden I was so full of energy and it was such a special feeling that I said to myself, wow, this could be something. And on top of that, would hear the stories ⁓ my grandmother and grandfather about their traveling around the world, performing and to different theaters and And for me that was a huge, it was a sort of dream because they had like souvenirs from Japan, souvenirs from here, they would tell me the stories and I thought it was so fascinating and so interesting that if you're good enough, can go around and dance and the world, which was amazing. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. who were your biggest inspirations growing up? Jonathan Chmelensky: My inspirations were, of course Mikhail Baryshnikov for me was a huge inspiration. He was the of masculinity, also of brilliant technique and really... pushing the boundaries of what was to become a ballet dancer. And then I was very inspired by multiple Cuban dancers I was young, which is why I pursued to try to go to Cuba. For instance, ⁓ José Manuel Carreno or Carlos were huge inspirations of technicality ⁓ and being good. both on stage presence but also strength and athleticism. then later on when I became a professional I was very inspired by some of the principles that were in the Danish that I was seen perform as a young member in the company such as dancers as Mads Landstrup which was a principle at the time when I joined and ⁓ Kenneth was another great example of artistry ⁓ Jean-Luc Hermas. So those three, when I joined the company, were the established stars ⁓ they had a huge impact on me and my vision of what meant to be a principal dancer in a company like the Royal Danish. Jasmine Jain: you stay in in-person school throughout all of your training or what did that look like for you? Jonathan Chmelensky: ⁓ So I would have most of my days I would have morning training, either ballet and then school in the afternoon with other people doing extra curricular activities such as there were football players, were some tennis players, there were some musicians. So for the first part I had ballet school in the which was extremely hard for me. and then training in the afternoon and then school in the afternoon and then later on it switched around so I had school in the morning which was much better for me and then ballet in the afternoon. me that worked a lot better. I being extremely tired and I ⁓ had hard time getting into the ballet mode early in the morning so yeah that was that. Jasmine Jain: what was it like first getting into the Royal Danish Ballet? Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, it was a kind of a dream come true. I got this invitation from the ex-director from the World Dance Ballet called Frank Anderson. Frank Anderson saw me when I was studying in Cuba and was very kind, saw me dance in the school and actually approached me and I sort of approached him to present myself and he was like... Why are you from, Jonathan? I can hear you're speaking very well English and you don't have a Cuban accent in that sense. said, well, actually I'm French. I'm studying here. a person. Yeah, I wanted to do an extra year to like perfect my technique. I felt like I needed that to ⁓ really a professional company. then, and nothing. He said, well, there you go. why don't you come to Denmark? Denmark is much closer to France than Cuba. ⁓ how the connection was made. Then I was to come and take a sort of two-week period class with the company. And already I think, four days taking classes, watching rehearsals, they offered me a contract full-time to be here. ⁓ And that was of surreal in that sense because all of sudden, They offered me a contract and said, when can you start? I said, well, straight away. And they were like, well, we need a boy and you would be perfect. So why don't you go back to France, Paris, where I was based, I lived with my parents, pick up your stuff and then come and join the company. And like that, I became a professional. So I almost have time to overthink it per se. Jasmine Jain: Mm-hmm. Jonathan Chmelensky: It was this, I always say it's a very, it's very different to be a student in a school and then become a professional dancer because all of a sudden, ⁓ know, when you're in school, your schedule is made for you. ⁓ You teachers that correct you. You have this whole coaching and you have this exam at the end of the season where being in a company, you're much more left by yourself. And so I think It took me some time as well to get used to that because I was always used to having a teacher or like ⁓ coach or know, part of the class where all of a sudden I was just like thrown in this professional life and I to learn repertoire. I had to be cover for big numbers. For instance, my first big ballet where I was a part of was Swan Lake and I was one of the Voss boys and I was a reserve in... being a, as being as a reserve, you need to learn every single spot. I being like, ⁓ my God, I'm living the dream, but at the same time, where do I even start? So it took some years and I got better at it as a, and so I had some very nice colleagues who helped me go and learn and taught me how to be in the court ballet and learn how to work with everybody and learn the repertoire and. Jasmine Jain: Thank Jonathan Chmelensky: good ways to prepare before rehearsals to make sure that I was up to speed. then, yeah, and then slowly over years, all of a sudden I wasn't just the reserve, all of a sudden I had my own spot. And then two years later I was doing really only frontline work with a little extra solo, whatever, and then perhaps went over and did a little double tour at the end, and then I became like soloist. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. Jonathan Chmelensky: the soloist dances and slowly but surely I grew in the company and yeah, the company Rue L'Angleterre has really been also sort of second in a way because I learned here how to be a real professional and I slowly but surely made my way and eventually became a principal dancer almost 10 years ago now. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. Yeah. what was it like getting your promotion to principal? Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, I got promoted at the end of my premiere of Swan Lake, which was, of course, first of all, in a way I could feel there was a special energy in the room on that day and people were kind of winking at me a day before, two days before the show. I was also doing opening night. So it was a big deal. And all of sudden the... And then I honestly, at that point, I had done a lot of principal work. Of course, it was in the back of my head. Of course, it was my dream to become a principal dancer. And I had made sort of peace that the title is amazing. And of course, I take that with great pride and honor. But I had already been doing the work. So that's what I say to also lot of my colleagues. I was enjoying doing the lead in Donkey Shots, I was doing Basileo, I had done Solor and By Adair, I had done multiple in ⁓ Gennaro and Napoli. And I didn't want to fixate that my objective was to become a principal dancer, I just wanted to do my best in that performance and show that I brought best of me and brought the... ⁓ did my best for that performance and not necessarily, my god, maybe I'm getting promoted after this show and everything because ⁓ became otherwise I felt it could become very quickly, it would become scary almost. It would be, I would get overly nervous about like if I don't do this series of double tours well, ⁓ then they're gonna re-question it. I decided, you know what, I'm just gonna tell the story, I'm gonna do the full ballet, I'm gonna do my best each and every section that I can, not letting it. affect my performance and just do I rehearsed and ⁓ again tell the story and then I really had a great time during that first so many and all of a sudden at the end of the show my director at the time Nikolai Hube came over on ⁓ and my partner Jean Dorger was like squeezing my hand at the bowels and I was I I almost didn't put, I actually thought somebody else was getting promoted. In my mind, there was also a very good friend of mine on my right who was doing Rotbart, Jonaxel who is also principal now. And I actually was, yeah, he's probably getting promoted. And I couldn't hear what he was saying because I was so exhausted, so much adrenaline. And I just like this peep, ⁓ like this in my ear. was just like beeping and then all of sudden I understand again in Danish and that's why tonight I'm promoting Jonathan Chmelensky to principal dancer and I was blown away and yeah, was then at that moment I was just very grateful. Everybody stayed backstage for a good while after to celebrate me and it was very special. It was very, very special and I'm very thankful for that memory. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. Yeah. And how do you deal with pre-show nerves? Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, pre-show nerves is a thing that every professional deals with differently. Some people the other day, some of my younger colleagues asked me, do you still get nervous? And I'm like, of course I get nervous. If you're ⁓ a certain extent, nervous at excited and have this sort of adrenaline rush before, yeah, I don't think it would be normal. think it's absolutely normal to have this sort of anticipation before a deal with it by having a very strict routine. ⁓ During day before, the whole day, the night before even, I would have a specific sort of dinner that I know will give me the right amount of energy. During the day, I will drink a certain amount of water throughout the day. I will warm up... Two hours before the show. An hour and a half before the show starts, then I do my makeup. Then I go back and warm up some more and I sort of... break down every step the way until the performance so that I know that I have just had this routine and now I'm gonna put on my shoes and I'm gonna try them out. Okay, I feel good. Then I'm gonna put, you know what I mean, and start to do my makeup. Okay, I have the perfect amount of time to do my makeup. And then instead of focusing on, my God, this performance is happening, I get into a sort of ritual mode which calms me down and then I feel like I'm at the best place when the show starts. Jasmine Jain: Do you have a favorite ballet to dance or to watch? Jonathan Chmelensky: Mmm. Well, right now, I mean, I'm doing Giselle on Saturday, and it's a ballet that I've now done three different occasions. And I really love this character of Albrecht. think Giselle ⁓ a really beautiful story that can be interpreted in many different ways. And I know that each time that I've come to this role, I've brought something new to the table and I've tried to change a little bit the meaning of my character. so that's when I get the opportunity to sort of... ⁓ put a little bit of myself and who I am right now into a character and shape that character a little bit more joyful or a little bit more reserved and sad or that is the moments where I have the most fun. that is very much the case here with Albrecht. ⁓ ⁓ enjoy doing that and it's I'm really having a lot of fun. My other big big role that I love is Gennaro in the Battle of Napoli. It was my first full length of Borneville. I just love because it's a very colorful character, very happy in life and very joyful. ⁓ of ⁓ there's this sort of story that happens around it and it ends up with a happy ending, which is always nice. And ⁓ there's this famous dance, which is the Tarentell. where all the dancers are dancing around and he's sort of leading with Teresina, his partner, ballerina of that ballet, doing sort of a joyful dance of expression of happiness and getting married. And every I do that dance, I have to myself almost because it's so much joy and it's a happy ending, which is not that often in ballet. And I just love a good happy ending. ⁓ That puts everyone, can see the audience. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. Jonathan Chmelensky: smile and everybody's happy on stage so that's another special one for me. Jasmine Jain: have you ever gone through a major injury and if so, how did you deal with that? Jonathan Chmelensky: So that sense, ⁓ been to stay clear of major injuries. I always like to say knock on wood. I have the wood table or knock on wood. So I have ⁓ smaller injuries along way that have kept me away for a month or two. Two years ago, I a really bad sort of injury in my back, which... got to the point where I couldn't lift my leg in arabesque. wasn't spinal, but it was like overuse of my back muscles, which ⁓ of radiated to my leg. And I started to doing all types of treatment ⁓ I went to physiotherapy, went to chiropractors, I went to so many things. Until ⁓ one of coaches and very... trusted person that I that I listened to told me but Jonathan maybe it's just your body saying that it needs a break. And that was extremely hard because I'm ⁓ that will try to find a solution for something I will maybe if I try to do this exercise then it's gonna help and then and having to learn to step away and not do completely nothing for two months because it did take two months for it to get down I think in the aftermath, they think that I pulled a muscle in my back. And so I just needed the time to rest and to restituate. But I was at a point where, yeah, I couldn't just dance And I trying to find solutions, but it was, and it was extremely hard. And that ⁓ was extremely challenging for mentally, but it forced me to make sure that I took better good care and it taught me me and then eventually after those two months from one day to the other two months later the pain was completely gone. I didn't feel anything and it kind of this thing of sometimes you have to listen to your body and there's exercises sometimes that can help something if that's happened and injuries are a big deal a big part of ⁓ dancer's and it's unavoidable, but it's always how you come back after an injury and how do you come get back into on the horse per se of, of dancing. So yeah, it's, it's, ⁓ it's, it to everybody. Different degrees, but, rehabilitation and taking things seriously and not letting things grow out of proportion is something that, I've learned along the way as well. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And how do you deal with tough days when you're not feeling up to it? Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, days happen to everyone. Um, was that because, you know, you, you're tired from the day before a performance, uh, or, you know, something just isn't working, um, in a step and you feel frustrated or, you know, you, there's new choreography, which is not necessarily easy to learn or choreographers that are very tough to work with and demand a lot. I always try to focus on the smaller things. Try to focus perhaps on... How do I get, maybe not the whole, if some, for example, I have a really hard time with a piece of choreography with a piece of technique, I will sort of break it down and just focus on if today I manage to not climb Mount Everest, but if today I really manage to clear this section of the mountain, if I just really focus on that. Even though it's a hard day, even though I'm not up for it, even though I will be so happy tonight and then it's gonna... it will nearly always change the tide into making it something that all of a sudden feel is achievable again or I feel, okay, you know what, I was tired but I pushed and you know what, that bit I'm really proud of what I did on section today and I can base that and take it with me and then... then I can start the day the next day with that feeling of, wow, okay, but you know what, even when it was hard, I managed to do this. So today I can do it as well. And you know, like, as they say, if you look at big mountain, it might seem like it's unachievable because it's so high, but if you slowly but surely, you know, keep on walking and keep on climbing slowly, but not overrushing, but slowly. every day achieving a certain amount, then all of sudden you're in the top of mountain. And that's how I deal with it on a bad day. That's my thought process, for instance. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And yeah. And how did you find the pandemic? Was that hard for you? Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, it was, it really was. I think like for every dancer, every professional dancer, all of sudden we were about to have like a huge premiere literally the next day where I was doing the lead in a ⁓ of John Neumeyer called Third Symphony. It was the lead man and it was going to be one of the highlights of my career. And when the pandemic was announced here in Denmark, the prime minister came on TV at 8 p.m. and announced that the whole country was gonna go on lockdown. And I had just finished an evening call, literally an hour before, and I had decided, okay, I'm just gonna go home and I'm gonna shower at home. I was literally standing there watching TV. My friend texted me, are you watching this? I was like, what? And then I go online, I turn on the TV and I see the prime minister saying, and I literally look at myself and I'm still sweating almost from the rehearsal. with eyeliner on, still under my eyes, watching this and I said, but we have a premiere tomorrow, is going on? Like, ⁓ can't just close a country, why does, we have a show tomorrow. And ⁓ did I know, literally, we got an email from the ballet director saying, well, the premiere gonna get postponed, we didn't know how long it was gonna be at the time. ⁓ It up being longer than any of us would have expected it to be. And it forced me somehow to rediscover who was Jonathan with our ballet. We all ballet dancers, just as yourself, we start very early and it's such an essential part of who we are. I always saw myself Jonathan the ballet dancer. It is part of my persona, of who I am as a baggage, as a... package I'm Jonathan the ballet dancer and I'm John it's such an essential part all of a sudden the ballet dancer element was taken away and I would wake up and think what am I gonna do today I can't train I yeah I can do bar in my living room and I did that but I was left alone with those like really hard thoughts perhaps that everybody gets maybe later in their life and their career of Oh, and now I'm done dancing, who am I? But all of sudden it forced me to be like, well, if I don't have to train first thing in the morning, I do have to, will train, but what would normal morning look for me if I wasn't a ballet dancer? And it took me a couple of months to find that out, but all of sudden I was in a very bizarre way. It also forced me to have these thoughts about, well, what does Jonathan like to do if it's not... going, because I love going to studio and I love my job and I love everything. I love my friends ⁓ work as well. And it's also my social circle, but it made question all these things. And it was at the end of the day, think as terrible as this whole situation was, I learned lot myself during that time and who Jonathan was without the ballet, which I think is going to be useful for me later on. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And how do you find balance outside of ballet now? Jonathan Chmelensky: So that was big thing with finding with COVID was that was with a lot of my colleagues and dancer, a lot of my friends that were dancers went back home to their home country or stuff like I actually connected with friends from outside of the ballet and That occasion of being not as busy and not as physically tired allowed me to make some friends outside of the ballet world through, you know, walks around and all of a I heard somebody talk and we were, I was at a cafe sitting outside because everybody needed to be distanced. But I could hear all of sudden I met some of the French people that were in Denmark because... Yeah, it was at two o'clock. I was having a coffee outside just to enjoy being outside. then I found a group of friends on the outside. And actually, I really rely on these friends nowadays exactly the career a dancer can be very stressful and very overwhelming at times. I found great in these people. these friends that are from other world and all of sudden tell me their daily life and tell me their stress it's almost so like a it gives me almost a side of okay ballet is very important but there's so many other things that are also important out there everything i have some friends that are architects and they have deadlines that they have to bring with new map new designs that they need to fall in their stress about that. And it sort of gave me this sort of hanging out with them and hanging out with people from different environments made me sort of calm down a little bit of saying, well, it's not just, used to love to think that, but Ballet Dancers were extremely stressed and we are because we're live performers, but everybody is and... having this sort of perspective of other friends that tell me like, yeah, it was a really tough week. I had to deliver this project and it's an amazing project and they show me what they're doing. And it gives me like this fascination of, wow, ballet is important, but that is also important. And it makes me feel a little bit more if that makes sense and more that everybody has their craft. and everybody's passionate with something and that's the most important thing. And having these people, not only from the ballet, sort of represent this idea of passion, but also commitment and also work is really relieving because then I can disconnect and hear about their stories of how their work is and how ⁓ exciting is at the moment or this. So I really do value my... friends from outside the theater nowadays and I hang out with them as soon as when I can when I don't have a premiere or you know they always say I always say I'm a ⁓ friend but with a special schedule because of performances but that's what it is. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And what do you do to recover after a long day of rehearsals or show? Jonathan Chmelensky: I drink a lot of water. I a pair of boots, ⁓ inflatable boots, that also of help me get ⁓ fresh and up legs for the next day. I make sure to always bring all the nutrients I need. I have a very sort of... routine when it comes to calories and when it comes I always eat make sure that I have enough food in my system and ⁓ ⁓ energy and water ⁓ I cannot say it enough it's ⁓ super to be honest. It's finding this time that even a stressful moments even after a show Trying to force myself into getting into very strict Sleeping pattern where to make sure that I have eight hours of sleep nine hours of sleep Nowadays is essential because otherwise again the next day Doesn't work if don't have that and that's something I realized as being a part a professional because when I was younger I could probably do with, you know, a little bit less sleep and it didn't matter as much, but nowadays I found out about myself that if I really don't get my eight, nine hours of sleep, I'm not gonna have a good day at work. So it's a huge part of my, I don't, ⁓ try not to watch anything on TV or watch my screen. I read before sleep and I make sure to have that side of the routine very tight. And it me to. Red be come back the next day, even if tired, but rested, if that makes sense. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And do you have a favorite post-show meal? Jonathan Chmelensky: ⁓ I do. I love a good... good plate of pasta. I really love. I'm lucky enough my body takes gluten very well, so I know not the case for everybody, ⁓ but there's like a nice plate of pasta after a show. I usually do before the show, ⁓ but I always a little extra so that when I come back after the show I can eat... I can eat that basic pasta, nothing really fancy, just with like some Parmesan and the light sauce. But it's something that calms me down and reheating it after when I back makes me, it's part of my ritual when I got home after the whole the adrenaline, ⁓ need to find sort of calmness to calm myself before I go to bed because if I know that if I try to go ⁓ straight away to bed, Jasmine Jain: Yeah. Jonathan Chmelensky: I'm still thinking about the show, so I sort of, how do you call it, unwind by doing these sort of simple things, reheating the pasta, eating it in my, right here, where I would be eating my pasta, thinking about the show, thinking about what happened, how I can improve for next time, what did I achieve, and then slowly making myself ready to sleep. That is definitely my go-to pasta. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And what advice would you give your 13 year old self? Jonathan Chmelensky: Wow, What advice? That's a really great question. I would say... Be open. Be open to all the teachers. Know that the teachers that are sometimes the toughest are the ones that have the most to bring you. Know that... It's a hard career and it's a hard... It's gonna be a hard path, but... Take it one day at a time, do your best, and that's enough. let... Yeah, trust your teachers that they know where you're going and if they tell you something. It's for a reason. You know, ⁓ the teachers that I thought were the toughest ⁓ the meanest at times, in retrospect, I think are some of the teachers that brought me the most. Because after a couple of months, I first got with a new teacher, for instance, I used to feel like, ⁓ that teacher hates me and they really don't like me. And then ⁓ but surely I found out that actually, no, they saw potential in me and they wanted for me to do well. And not to get this desperate because I used to think, ⁓ my God, this teacher just doesn't like me. And I think I'm misunderstood sometimes that teachers. intention and I'd say follow advices, follow the right advices, work, ⁓ the work on a daily basis and things will be alright. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. how do you define success and has that changed over the years of your career? Jonathan Chmelensky: Absolutely. think when I was younger, when I wasn't a principal, I thought that being principal was going to be the final, the end game per se. ⁓ when I'm going to be a principal then everything will make sense. actually, the work that deliver is what makes sense. As I said, don't think being a principal is the end game at all anymore. I think the state, the performance that you give at night, the process, your investment in the process and your ⁓ of character and maybe giving new or a new inspiration in the character on stage is... my endgame now and is actually should have always been not focusing on what does it mean if I don't manage to do this pirouette. Well the pirouette is very important of course. But want embody the character as well as I can and if I manage to do that, then that's my endgame. That's my new thing ⁓ that think is the most important as a ballet dancer ⁓ to a story, to make the audience feel something when I'm showing the desperation. And if I manage to... move somebody in the audience, not just wow them because of my technique, but make them feel something that they hadn't felt in a long time and make them forget their trouble even for 10 minutes, then that's success that I wish for myself. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. And my final question is, where do you see yourself in 10 years? Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, that's a... that is a... interesting question because I have a couple of years left in my career now. As the... in the Royal Danish Ballet we go into retirement when we're 40 years old so I still have a couple of years of dancing to go. I... leaving myself a little bit open doors per se about what my future will look like. I love dancing and I love the world of theater. So having to do and giving the knowledge to the next generation is something that I really like doing. giving all the knowledge that I because I had really amazing coaches, really amazing teachers. I think in a certain way it is my duty to perhaps give that knowledge, my experience to the next generation and I'll help them achieve the best dancer that they can become. But that is something that I would love to do. I'm not closing the opportunity of perhaps also going back to school ⁓ ⁓ learning a new skill perhaps using that new skill with my ballet education and my ballet experience and perhaps with this combination of new skills, staying within the arts and within the art form, but a more administrative way, I think could be extremely interesting. that's where see myself happy for what I've done in my career, at ease with not being dancing anymore, but still being involved in a way or another in the art form. Jasmine Jain: Yeah. thank you so much for coming on today. I learned so much. Jonathan Chmelensky: Well, thank you so much for having me and thank you for a great podcast and thank you for a great interview.