Phoebe Bridgers's Line: This is Flyover Film Country. Let's ride. Isaac: Welcome back to Flower Film Country. This is a podcast about places set in, about movies set in places oft forgotten by America. Hollywood. I'm so tired. And today we're talking about reminders of him, which is set in Wyoming. ⁓ Some pretty good vistas. I would argue it could veritably be ⁓ a Flower Film. based on the standards that we used to hold on our podcast. So yeah, what do you guys think? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I mean, I think so. Who's ever been to Wyoming? Doesn't anyone know anyone from Wyoming? Is that a real state? Okay. Shame: No. I have to just say something upfront. I didn't know the movies in Wyoming because in my first time since I've joined as a co-host of Fly Over Film Country, I did not watch the movie that we're talking about today. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Huh. Isaac: Whoa. Shame: I know I had a streak going I'm not gonna ruin my be on the episode streak because I want to keep that going forever But I didn't watch the movie and I'm going to punish myself I have to pay penance for not watching the movie and I'm gonna do something that I haven't done since college So in the spirit of st. Patty's day because we're recording on st. Patty's day I'm going to live on the podcast right now drink an entire bottle of Jameson Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm. ⁓ my gosh. Okay. Isaac: No you're not. ⁓ but it's a tiny one. Yay! Shame: Here we go. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: It's a tiny one, okay. Hey, I have ⁓ a Guinness here, so cheers. Isaac: I'm honestly jealous. I'm really jealous. Shame: This does not come out of this fast at all and it's really hard to drink, but I'll drink it by the time the episode's over. Well, I was gonna chug it, but I figured out this neck is too small. I would be sucking on this like a baby, sucking on a bottle, and I don't wanna do that. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Wow, I love that so much. Isaac: ⁓ like over the course of the episode? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mmm. An alcoholic baby bottle pop. Isaac: Well, that was a great intro. I did not know where you were going with that. And I thought initially it was a Guinness that you were gonna chug or that you were gonna do an Irish car bomb, even though that's not PC anymore. You can't say that. But Olivia, you do have a Guinness. So you followed up my expectations. Shame: Yeah. That was the goal. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I do have a Guinness in a Coop L-Works class. very, Coop is a local brewery. Isaac: Nice. Shame: We... You should try to split the C. You know about this on the Guinness? You should try to split the C since you don't have a G. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: ⁓ yeah! Should I try that right? I don't know if I should do that. I don't know if that's a good idea. don't, that, I mean, so, that's a decent amount. Shame: Hahaha Isaac: Said a lot. Shame: That'd be a decent amount to drink all at once. Isaac: That'd be a couple glugs. God, I wanna get this really bad right now. Shame: A few glugs. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hey, listen, I've already had a few. Shame: Me too. Isaac: A few Guinnesses? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: a few small beers. Isaac: I've had a A few small beers. I love them. I love them. Shame: You like beer senator? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: ⁓ I love them. Let's see how many random things we can quote before we actually start talking about this movie. Isaac: I would prefer to talk about the Oscars as opposed to reminders of him, but you know what? This is the bed that I made, so. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: This is the bed that you specifically, you made. Isaac: to sleep in with both of you. ⁓ Like two bugs, like two bugs in a rug. I think we decided to do reminders of him. It was my idea, right? Nice, okay. The listener at home, he's pouring the shot. That's like, is it about two shots? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: We're just gonna get real snug. Snug as a bug. Shame: Yeah. Thank you, thank you Savannah. Yes, it was. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah, yeah. Why? Shame: That's more than a shot. That's more than a shot. Yeah. All right. Cheers. I it wasn't a shot. I drank like I'm telling you nothing would come out of this bottle. I've never drank out of one of these before and nothing would come out of it. But to my Irish brethren out there. Cheers. Happy St. Patty's Day. St. Patrick was a really cool guy. Cool story. But he did not drive any snakes out of Ireland because they've never existed there because it's too cold. But cheers. Isaac: But you already drank a shot, right? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Cheers. Isaac: Be like a little trickle. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: That's right. Isaac: Cheers, and may God bless you on the rocky road to Dublin. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Update I did it. Shame: Woo. ⁓ wow, that was really good. Isaac: ⁓ did you? Nice. How many glugs was that Olivia? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: split the C. It was actually not that hard. It was just like two. And it was two small ones. It wasn't even two big ones. A few small, a few small beers, a few small snips. Isaac: Okay, a few small sips. I do want ⁓ to say congratulations to One Battle After Another for winning Best Picture and congratulations to Ryan Coogler for winning Best Original Screenplay for Sinners and Autumn Durald Archipaul, the first female to win Best Cinematographer in the History of the Academy Awards. was ⁓ 98 years of really, really amazing achievement. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: 98 years. Shame: Wow. Isaac: I feel like that's all I really want to say about the Oscars and Michael B. Jordan for best actor. Shame: I... Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hey, I was very excited about all the winners. felt like this was a such 20, 25 was such a good year for film. And it was so fun to see all of those people win and be genuinely excited. Like the discourse we see online is so annoying because PTA and Ryan Coogler and Chloe Zhao, like they were all very excited for each other. It was, it was really, really cool. And so. Shame: Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I had a great time watching the Oscars this year. Isaac: I didn't know this until today but Yocum Trier who directed Sentimental Value and Worst Person in the World, Chloe Zhao and Ryan Coogler were all at Sundance at the same time. So they're like homies which is really cool. And they were being pretty supportive of each other that evening. So anyway. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: That's really cool. That's really sweet. That's awesome. That's Shame: It's awesome, yeah. Last, I would love to shout out Irish actor, Jessie Buckley for winning because she deserved it. She swept all the major awards and she's an incredible performance in Hamnet. She deserved it. Even though I loved Emma Stone's performance in Begonia as well, but. Isaac: Indeed. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Ugh, she was so good in begonia. Shame: Yeah. But yeah, Jessie Buckley is great and she's Irish and it's freaking St. Patty's Day and Isaac's not wearing green and I would pinch him if I was there with them right now. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: That's right. Isaac: It's true. I'm not wearing green. I wore green yesterday. I feel like that would be fine. I feel like the Irish Saint. So yeah, yeah. No one pinched me today. I was at a civic engagement thing like all day. No one pinched me. I did tell one person, if you pinch me, I'll sue you. And they laughed, so. ⁓ Speaking of lawsuits, should we talk about? Shame: That's not how it works. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: hahahaha That's good. That's really funny. Let's do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where do we start? Isaac: reminders of him. I don't know how to start this off other than, okay, wait, wait. Let's start with the casting crew, because I put in some effort to put this, ooh, nice, you are getting, this is gonna be me this weekend. I'm gonna have a few small beers this weekend. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Is that a long drink? Nice. I had one of those earlier too. Shame: Yep. We're feeling good. I was telling Livia, I had a really long day yesterday. I had a really, really long day yesterday. Yeah, that turned out to, I was going to Fort Lauderdale for work and I flew through Atlanta. So I flew to Atlanta, woke up at 3 a.m., flew to Atlanta and my flight got canceled to Fort Lauderdale. Isaac: ⁓ yeah, your trip! Shame: and what I needed to do for work was at a specific time and all the rest of the flights to Fort Lauderdale would get me there too late. So I flew back to Little Rock. Awesome day of work for me yesterday. Isaac: You know whose fault this is. Shame: Who? Isaac: Pete Hegseth. Shame: That's true. That's true. Isaac: It is. It is. Anyway, so, I don't know how to sequent from that. I'm sorry, Walter Walker. Sorry, buddy. That's not fun at all. I did have to do that in September. I woke up at 3.30 to get to the airport, except I was able to get to St. Louis, which is where I was going. I didn't have to wait and then come back because of a connecting flight issue. So, sorry about that. Shame: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah. Thank you. Isaac: ⁓ reminders of him, stars, ⁓ okay, is it Mika Monroe? Did anyone get to the bottom of this? Mika? I've been saying Mika this whole time. ⁓ Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I think we just stay with our, you know, be consistent, stay with what we've been doing. Stay the course, man. Isaac: Stride and true. Okay. Michael Monroe, Tyreke Withers, Rudy Pankow, Lauren Graham, Bradley Whitford, Lainey Wilson, and it's directed by, whoops, hold I did not copy over the... Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Her first name is Vanessa. just, I don't know why I remember that. Hold on, hold, hold. Vanessa Caswell. We got there. Isaac: Vanessa Caswell, Love at First Sight and ⁓ Little Women miniseries. I wonder which miniseries she worked on. But a couple other people, so. Lauren Levine co-wrote with Colleen Hoover. Colleen Hoover produced, Lauren Levine also produced, and she was a producer on Bridgette Arbithia. And then Gina Matthews was also a producer, and she worked on 13, going on 30, and isn't it romantic? This film has a pretty good score that's gonna come up here and there as we discuss, but. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Classic. Isaac: I want to know one thing. like, don't, I think I'm not as like, like I know this isn't the type of genre that any of us love to discuss or watch in our free time. But the thing I was like, my brain was just totally activated by how much I like wasn't responding to the movie. And I wanted to, I think this is a good place to start. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaac: I wanted to pose to you guys the question of like how much of the stuff in Walker didn't see this movie, but I'll ask the question anyway, how much of this the tropes of rom-coms are acceptable when you're dealing with really heavy issues like accidental death your child being taken away from you and living in poverty Shame: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Isaac: Because to me, that's like what I, I was just like, I feel like this can't be excused. I feel like this film deserves a lot more ridicule than it's receiving because of the way it predicts either like in too brief a, you know, explanation like being like lactating in prison. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaac: and because you can't feed your baby, which is like really sad, but then moved on from like immediately. ⁓ And then, you know, struggling to find a job and then being separated from your child. I don't know, I don't know. Do you know what I'm trying to ask, Olivia? I feel like this movie can't be forgiven for that and. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Isaac: and I think it deserves some marks against it. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: There are... And part of that, I think, is Colleen Hoover as a writer. So, full disclosure, I've never read Colleen Hoover. I don't know anyone who has really loved her writing. Of my friends who have read anything from her, the only, like, any sort of positive feedback that she has, her writing has gotten is for the... Shame: Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: What is that new movie coming out? Verity? Yeah, that book is, which is more of a psychological thriller. And so I think that also matters. But the rest of her writing is, I haven't heard great things about it. So now I've never read it, so I can't really say much about it. But as far as this film goes, which of course is what we're talking about is the film, is, Isaac: Verity? Yeah. And that's like a different genre too. Shame: Yeah. Right. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: That, that. It wants so badly to touch on these really significant and difficult topics, like heavy topics, Like what you were saying of... an accidental death that leads to someone being put in prison, having to go through pregnancy in prison and giving birth in prison and then having to give your baby like is taken from you because that's where you're at and dealing with lactating while you're there. that, the prison system obviously is very flawed and there's a lot, especially for women who are in that system. And I can't even imagine, begin to imagine what that experience is like. And... Shame: Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I even... I think what I'm getting hung up on is that it wants to be more serious than it is, but also wants to kind of be sort of... Isaac: Hahaha Shame: Mm-hmm. Isaac: funny and like charming and like slapsticky. Or not slapsticky. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah, yeah. And so if it were to lean into Little Woods, that film by Nia da Costa, right? Little Woods. It could have that same feel to it if they really leaned into that sort of thing, but they don't. And it could be sort of at all, like at all. ⁓ Everything is Isaac: Good movie. at all. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: It feels like the actors are phoning it in, which the cast is good. I really like this cast. mean, you know, most of us probably know Micah Monroe from Long Legs. We've talked about that. You know, Isaac and Walter did an episode of her Long Legs. I watched it later. And so we spent some time talking about it on an episode. ⁓ You know, we talked about Tyreek. Right. ⁓ I love Lauren Graham. I mean, Shame: Mm-hmm. Isaac: Tyreke Withers is pretty good. Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Most women my age know her from Gilmore Girls, but also she's in parenthood. ⁓ She was in one of my favorite movies that I watched growing up called The Pacifier with Vin Diesel. And so, love The Pacifier. It's a movie that my family still quotes today. And Bradley Whitford, we love Bradley Whitford. He's so good. So great cast and I don't think... Shame: ⁓ yeah. Isaac: I remember the pacifier. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Like, I just don't think that anyone was trying that hard. And I don't know. So it's just... Isaac: It felt like everything was filmed with one... one take. Yep, that's good. Let's move on. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: That's good, we did it. Moving on. Isaac: ⁓ yeah, go ahead Walker. Shame: was just saying, well, that's something you want people to say about your movies. But I think what you're talking about, Isaac, and describing is like really one of the biggest criticisms of Colleen Hoover and her books and that, you know, they often depict really, you know, I mean. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hahaha Mm-hmm. Shame: a lot of times abuse and trauma and a lot of crazy events and then it's not taken seriously at all. mean, I don't know if you guys remember this. There was a big when it ends with us first came the book came out. There was this huge drama because they Colleen Hoover planned to release a coloring book like based on that book. Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Isaac: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: What? No, I don't know anything about that. What? Shame: Yeah, that was a huge thing and they ended up not doing it because of the backlash because of course like this is a movie about domestic violence and you're gonna release a coloring book about it and I think that you know, there's I Mean at the end of the day there's no way to get away from that like when you're making when they're making her moot her books into movies like that feeling I think is always gonna be there because yeah Isaac: Wow. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Isaac: crazy. Shame: A lot of times she doesn't take these things as seriously as they should be taken and so there's this weird just feeling around them. And I know that even not have seen, I haven't even seen the movie, you know? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Isaac: But I wonder, you know, I'm thinking about a couple other things I heard today just in terms of, know, younger people are going to see movies and studios are really trying to... predict what people will want to go see and that's why so much money is being pumped into Avengers and Marvel even though, ⁓ especially the big ones like Doomsday because in avatars this way too where these big big movies they're banking on people who usually don't go to movies coming out, just like a ton of them going out to see it during Christmas and then that will get them a ton of money. Shame: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Isaac: And so I guess like are the people or like, you know, primarily women, I would say, and their boyfriends who are going to see reminders of him just like. Like, these sorts of, this is like, calling Hoover's the new Nicholas Sparks. Nicholas Sparks movies are not rom-coms, they're just roms, like romance, like drama romances that are not like super funny. ⁓ This movie has, like tries to be funny a couple times and I don't think it really works. Unintentionally. Shame: Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: the Phoebe Bridgers needle drops are really funny. Because they're like in pretty poor taste, I would say, both times. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: That yeah, okay. I want to talk about that real quick. Yeah, yeah. So the scene that Isaac's referring to is that Micah Monroe, who plays Kena, is in the truck with Tyreek Weathers, who plays Ledger. And she's talking about how she doesn't listen to music because all songs are sad, which is not true. Isaac: Okay, I wanna come back to that. I wanna come back to that because that made me just like snicker to myself so hard. was like. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah, which is not true, but also kinda funny. Isaac: What if someone didn't like music? Genius idea calling Hoover. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah, yeah, very, very cynical, very, but not like really saying anything about anything. And the very first, he goes ahead and plays, plays the song, turns on the radio. And the first song that plays is a Phoebe Bridgers song, which Phoebe Bridgers, for those of you who don't listen to her, is known for just being a, like just being super sad, which is one of the reasons I love her. I personally love sad music. And the song that she, that is Isaac: It's just dumb, yeah. Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: playing is Funeral by Phoebe Bridgers and the line is, Jesus Christ, I'm so blue all the time. And it made me laugh out loud. Yeah. And she's like, see? And that was funny. And no one else in my theater laughed, just me, because I was the only person under the age of 35 in the theater, probably 40, honestly, besides the 10 year old boy who was there with his family for whatever reason. Isaac: She goes, see, see? That was pretty funny. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Don't know why, why you'd bring a 10 year old to see that movie, but whatever. Anyway, also what's funny about that is that would not, that song is not, I don't know if that song's ever been played on the radio, especially in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming. Shame: Yeah. Yeah, didn't it come out in 2017 too? Like... Isaac: So, okay. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: So yeah, it came out when we were in college or when Walker was in high school. And so like, it's... Shame: I graduated in 2017. I could have been in college if it came out later in the year. Isaac: Here you go. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: And I could have not been in college actually, I guess. So, so who's to say truly. But yeah, so it's an, it's, it's just funny cause it's like a song that definitely would not be on the radio. Anyway, Isaac, back to you. Shame: Ha ha ha ha. Isaac: Okay, so, big yawn. The other needle drop that made me just laugh ironically was she's thinking about ⁓ what's her fiance's name? Played by Rudy Penkow. Scotty, who we know is dead because the movie starts with him like, yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Big yawn. Mm-hmm. Shame: Can ask you a quick question? Sorry to interrupt. Isn't a key plot point that Tyreke Withers is this guy's best friend? But okay, because they're engaged and she didn't know that? Yeah, please. Okay, okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yes. Isaac: Okay, let me get to this. I'm about to go moon, like Walter moonfall on you. Hold on, hold, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna do the hold on thing, cause that infuriated me, but like, yes, this plot does not make sense at all. But real quick, the needle dropped it. She's thinking about Scotty, cause she like writes letters to him, even though he's dead, cause it helps her, apparently. It's just so dumb. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hold on, hold on. Yeah, go walk her in Moonfall. Shame: You Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hahaha Shame: Right. Yeah. It's like me. I text Kobe every once in a while, but you know. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Okay, Jason Tatum. Shame: Hahaha. Isaac: Whoa. My sister has a dog named Kobe and that's I thought of it first That's my my fatigue addled brain ⁓ But anyway, so it cuts to a flashback it but it starts with the Phoebe Bridgers Lord Huron Collab on the night we met which is an amazing song but I was like Why play this? in a Shame: Yeah, I text your sister's dog Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Great song. Shame: Mm-hmm. Isaac: flashback that's like way over saturated. looks like the sun is like blinding, blindingly bright coming through this store. Yeah, yeah. It's not a night. And that's the other thing too. I was like, this is not the night they met. They've known each other for a while and it's daytime. So anyway, okay. This is the plot of the Walker. She gets out of prison. Shame: You Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yes. Not a night. Not a night. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaac: She stops a cab on a long stretch of rural road and she says, the, yeah, she is in a cab coming from a prison and it is like, there is not a prison back where you're coming from. Like that's the first thing I was like, there's not a prison, this is too beautiful. ⁓ She stops the cab, she goes over and knocks over, she kicks over a cross that has Scotty on it and she takes it into the cab and leaves the flower strewn everywhere. Shame: A cab? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: A cab, a taxi cab, not an Uber, a taxi. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: And then she goes to try to find a job and like there's this rundown motel or motel that's been turned into apartments and she's like, she tries to get a, she signs, this is what it is. She has cash, she signs the lease. Shame: Mm-hmm. Isaac: then she tries to go get a job, she's like walking around different parts of downtown, and you're like, okay, this looks like the street where the motel is on. But then it cuts to like a different part of town, and you can tell it is like a different town. you're like, this is a completely different place, and so for me I'm like, okay, that's really annoying. Because it's like, okay, I'm walking in a downtown setting, I'm walking on a long road with like agricultural, ⁓ Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: Ha ha. Isaac: processing like rice mills and stuff and it's like, okay, how far have you You've been walking like all day for hours and stuff. Shame: Right. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Which- Yeah, that's okay. I to add to that Walker, just so you have like a better visual of this. It looks like there are three roads this whole in this whole town, but they're all like miles away from each other. There's like the downtown area. Go ahead. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: And they ca- and they... Yes, they shoot multiple scenes at, like, throughout the movie at these, same locations. It's like they're somehow connected, but you don't know how. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yes. but it all looks like it's like one like very long road that just goes for miles. Cause it's, for sure trying to give you that small town feel, but it definitely is like, are you just bouncing from one small town to another? And you're just like driving like 20 miles down the road to get to the next small town. Because like, so like, like Ledger, Tyreke Weather's character lives across the street from ⁓ his, his best friend's Shame: Right. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: parents who are raising the daughter ⁓ and their neighborhood looks like it's in a completely different town than the downtown area. Shame: Right. Isaac: It looks like it's in a Georgia ⁓ suburb. Yeah. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah. Which this film, this probably was filmed in some sort of Georgia, you know, set back lot somewhere. But yeah. Shame: That's it. Yeah. Isaac: Yeah, Georgia and Wyoming. then, okay, she finally, she doesn't find a job, but she spent like, because no, okay, no one will hire her, and there's like, they're at a diner, and they need help really badly, and she's like, we don't hire people with a record. Shame: Hehehe Phoebe Bridgers's Line: because they won't hire her because she has a record. Shame: Okay. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Which is not true. Have you ever worked at a... Have you ever gone into a Waffle House? I guarantee you every single person who's ever worked at a Waffle House. And I say this with the utmost respect for Waffle House employees. They are truly the unsung heroes of America. They are doing the Lord's work. They're doing God's work. What have I told you guys? I'm going to tell you guys a story about my experience at a Waffle House one time. Isaac: Not true! Shame: It's like, yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Isaac: So Shame: Yes. Isaac: They're doing the Lord's work. Shame: They're doing God's work, yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: This was, this was in my adult life. This was living here back here in Oklahoma. I went to Waffle House one night after, after a great pickleball run with some friends, with my friends, Tyler and Scott. And it was like 11 o'clock at night. And we're the only people there. And the Waffle House employees, if someone comes in and it looks like this is another employee and they all just like leave for a smoke break. Probably not just smoking a cigarette, probably smoking other things, but hey, again. Shame: Hell yeah. Isaac: So sweet. Shame: Right. Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: unsung heroes. And so they just leave us unsupervised in this waffle house. And we were like, can we go back there? Like, what are they going to do? We didn't, but we really considered going back behind the counter because we were just like, what if we got another waffle? What are they going to do? Nothing. Shame: I guarantee they wouldn't have done anything. Isaac: My Waffle House claim to fame is that I've eaten the steak and eggs and I didn't die. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: ⁓ and you didn't die. Shame: Isaac, I've eaten the steak and eggs at Waffle House. No! ⁓ my gosh, yeah. I ordered the steak one time, because I was just like, I have to see what it's like. It was literally gray all the way through. I don't even know how it's possible to cook it the way they did. Isaac: Have we talked about this? ⁓ Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Whoa! Isaac: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: ⁓ So, would not recommend? Isaac: It was like DUN DUN. Shame: Yeah, and it just tasted like pepper. So if you like pepper. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Okay. Isaac: I had some chewies for lunch today and the way that they cook their steak is bizarre because I looked at it and I was like, I'm gonna get some of this but it looks like it is completely overcooked and dried out. it's like, the steak they use is like rib eye. It's like good stuff. I like pulled it out, bit into it and I was like, ⁓ this is like very juicy. Shame: Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: and tender, but it was like not rare. was cooked through, well done, but not dried out. ⁓ Chewy's is the only place I know who can cook steak like that. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: interesting. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: Interesting. Yeah, what a weird cannot. Can I tell a quick Waffle House story real quick that I always think is so funny? So I went to college at Henderson in Arcadelfia, which is a small town and like right outside of Arcadelfia is this even smaller place called Cato Valley. But there is a Waffle House there. So that's where the Henderson and OBU students will go late at night. And we're there one night. Yeah, yeah, we always knife fight each other in there. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yes, always. Isaac: ⁓ yeah, go for it. Mm-hmm. and have knife fights. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: It's West Side Story. Shame: Yeah, exactly. We all come out snapping and... ⁓ I legitimately though have been at Waffle House at like 2 in the morning and seen OBU students asked to pray for their waitress like but yeah Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Isaac B Real, was that Jess? Isaac: Jess is... no, Jess is too... she's not the type of... Christian with the personality to pray for someone in public. I think she would agree with that. Shame: Right. You know what? That's a that's a good that's a great thing in my book. I know that was not the story. It's real quick. So one time. So one time we go to Waffle House very late at night ⁓ and they bring out our silverware and mine was like. It had not been cleaned at all, like someone had eaten with it and they had given it to me. So I tell our waitress, hey, my silverware is dirty and she goes. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: fair. I didn't think it was. I didn't think she would do that. Isaac: Can I tell... Wait, did you tell it? Was that your story? Okay, okay, I figured you weren't done. Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: No, Shame: Okay, and then she walks away and I was like, I guess like she's not gimme she comes back with a cup of hot water and Picks my silver up and sticks it in there and walks away Isaac: That's incredible. ⁓ Shame: You Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Did she bring you clean silverware? Shame: No, that was what she told, she expected me to eat with that after putting in the hot water. That she cleaned it. Yeah. Isaac: That's hilarious. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Amazing. Isaac: so, okay, I have a quick, my Waffle House story is pretty quick. ⁓ and then we can get back to Kenna's woes at not being able to be hired due to her horrible, horrible, horrible record. And the fact that she was in prison, ⁓ went to Waffle House with the girl I dated in college that, ⁓ Olivia knows who I'm talking about. And we sat down, were you here for this Olivia? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don't know. Tell the story. I don't know. I was just thinking, did we ever go to Waffle House together? But I don't know. Isaac: You may have been, ⁓ she goes... She goes, I order, and then she looks at the waitress and goes, yeah, could I have a pancake? And the waitress just looks at her like she wants to kill her. She goes, we only have waffles. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hahaha! Shame: ⁓ And that and that's when Isaac knew That's an Isaac knew it wasn't gonna work out Phoebe Bridgers's Line: You No, but I remember you telling me this story in college. Isaac: And she goes, I'll have a waffle. Yeah. She's so sweet though. I'm like, I'm not, it was just a, it's like, aw. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I'm honestly surprised that the waitress didn't just bring out a waffle. Because I've heard of people ordering pancakes. Like someone else we went to college with... I'm not gonna say who it is. Because I'm not positive if it is this person. there was someone else we went to college with... I'm not gonna put him on blast. Who ordered a pancake and they just brought her a waffle. So... As they should! Isaac: You know what, I'm put him on blast. Shame: You know what and as they should that's their right as Waffle House employees if you're ordering a pancake They can they'll bring you a waffle. You know what you you should be happy about it because it's It's good. It's delicious Isaac: players. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: You're gonna waffle. It's the same thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So back to Kenna. She does not get a job at the diner because she's got a record. And so she wanders into this bar that used to be a bookstore that's owned by land or ledger, not Landry. Isaac: ⁓ Yes. And Ledger is, we know that, I mean, from the trailer, you kind of know that he's Scottie's best friend and that they're the ones who gonna be together at the end of the movie and raise the daughter and everything's gonna be fine. we don't know how he came to be back here, but. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Isaac: there's a really weird, like the first time we see Ledger, he gives one of his employees a mug and it's a Denver Broncos mug and I was like, what? And then like, I'm not kidding you, like 30 or 40 minutes later, they explain like why it was a Denver Broncos mug and it was because he was older, I think he was a year older than Scotty and he went to go like from high school to go play for the Broncos. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Isaac: and he knew this, okay, this is where it's like, this is just not, this is so dumb. Like a 12th grader or a 12th grader could have like thought through this plot to make it a little more airtight. He never knew what Kenna looked like, even though he like, he said like, well, I lost touch with Scotty. It's like, okay, but even if you were losing touch with her, Shame: What? Yeah, well- Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Isaac: if he was your best friend and you were only gone for like six months or three months or whatever, you would have got pictures of this girl. And he said like, well, I did see pictures of her, but she looked way different in her mug shot. And so that night in the bar, the first time he comes in, he's like, you know, they're flirting and there's chemistry and stuff. he asks her out the next time she comes in, I think. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: See, okay, yes. Saw a mugshot. I saw one single mugshot is what he said. I saw one mugshot. Mm-hmm. But she knew exactly who he was. Isaac: but she knew who he was I think the next time, because. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: No, I think she knew who he was from the beginning. Isaac: But that's the other thing is like, Scotty never showed her a picture of Ledger? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: So okay, I have a question for the fellas because that's stuff that we ladies would have figured out immediately. As soon as I get a first name or even first and last name, if I have both, I'm for sure looking him up. So like with guys. Isaac: playing for the Broncos? Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: And this is not like early 2000s, this is like, they are using smartphones. Shame: Okay. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Right. So like, yeah, is that not something you guys share with each other? I feel like that's that's like pretty common, right? To be like, yeah, this is right. OK. Shame: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Isaac's right 100 % that he would have got pictures. Also, can I point out that you cannot it is against the rules to graduate high school and then play professional football in the NFL. It's not that like it's rare. It is you actually cannot do it like you can't. It's not possible. Sorry. Not happening. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Right. You... It doesn't happen. I didn't interpret it as that though, Isaac. Like I just assumed they were just like completely forgetting to include that he went to college somewhere. I assumed that they were older because they all look like they are in their late 20s, early 30s. But you know, that's also how it's always been, know? you know, Beverly Hills, 90210. Isaac: Yeah, maybe I am understanding it wrong, but if, yeah. They don't mention college, do they mention like, oh you're working, like he decided to work, but you know, I went to college and I, well maybe the book goes into more detail on that stuff and that's where I'm trying to give it like the benefit of the doubt, but I'm just like, no, he would have known what she looked like. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I don't think they ever mentioned- now that you said it though, I don't think they ever mentioned him... Yeah. They don't ever mention it. Sure, maybe, and who's to say? Cause yeah, cause- Because, yeah, the NFL, you have to be in college for two years? One year. Shame: I think it's at least two. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: think it's at least two, because I think that's the reason why Johnny Manziel didn't go earlier, is that he had to be in college for two years. So, ⁓ and then is that Johnny Manziel? Yeah, in the NBA, it's one year of college. LeBron James, his class was the last class to go straight from high school. ⁓ I think the MLB, you can go and the... Shame: Yeah. Isaac: Dude, remember Johnny Manziel? Is that Johnny Manziel? Shame: Right. Now, yeah. Yep. Yeah, you can get drafted out of high school for baseball. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: The NHL? Yeah, I think you can for hockey too. I don't know that for a fact. Anyway, not the point. Shame: The idea that a high school has a hockey team is just so far out of my brain that... Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Sure. Yeah, that's that's northern flyover country. That's not that's not where we're at. So so they meet going back to this movie, they meet up at this bar that he has bought. It used to be a bookstore. That's why she went there. And it's no longer a bookstore. And and he is very into her. Again, doesn't recognize her, which is mind blowing to me. Shame: Right, right. Yeah. Isaac: It's a different middle of nowhere. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: But whatever, part of me was like, maybe this is just guys. I don't know. But I don't know. No, just like, just don't talk about things. Shame: I think Isaac: Women, they all look the same to us. Shame: Yeah, they're all... Isaac: You Shame: Well, let me say this. Right. Like I have no idea. Like Isaac has talked about his job, but I really don't know what it is, to be honest, you know, like, and I've never asked either. So that's a great, you know, that's on me. But. Right. But I'll say this, that if my best friend that what were they like in a I don't even know 100 percent, but my guess is they're in a car crash and she had had some drinks or something and he died and she lived. Isaac: ⁓ that's true too. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. So guys, just don't ask questions. Shame: Is that what happened? Okay, so. Isaac: Yes, okay, and then more implausibility coming, coming soon. We get one scene where she's, okay, the scene with Lord Huron and Phoebe Bridgers the night we met, where he, it's like they're meet cute, but you can tell that he knows her and he's trying to ask her out. And it's like, I was like squinting at the screen because it was so bright. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Basically, yeah. Shame: Right. Mm-hmm. Ha Isaac: I was like, then it's like, and then a little bit later you get another flashback and it's his birthday and. They're having lunch or dinner with her parents and you get the sense that they're just not comfortable with her because she's like little like she plays it fast and loose and she's kinda, you know, like definitely not acting it, ⁓ acting like she's like that, you know, but kind of dressed like it and they're just kind of like, ⁓ we just don't approve of this girl, you know. Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: And so what ends up happening is, I think Olivia went to go get another Guinness. ⁓ What ends up happening is that they go to a really beautiful Wyoming freshwater lake and they swim naked and they take a gummy. They each have a gummy. He is pressuring her to have one. She's like, no, you take it and then I'll drive us. And she's like, no, I can't do it by myself. Shame: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Isaac: They're driving, and I need Olivia to correct me when she gets back, but I'm pretty sure what happens is they're driving back and they're both conscious and they're fine, but they hit a huge rock in the gravel road and it doesn't damage the car or anything, but it just makes them, and she's driving, and makes them go off the road and crash. Shame: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Isaac: And then she gets out, she can't feel a pulse because on his arm, and you find out later it's because his arm is broken. And so she's like, okay, I gotta go see if I can go get some help. But she thinks he's dead. And there's a scene, there's a bit where the first truck we see her encounter on the road ignores her. It just keeps driving. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: Which would never happen because she's like covered in blood and like someone would be like, ⁓ my gosh, what is going on here? You know, like that was the one thing. And then she walks and walks and walks and then she like falls down, walks through the rain. And then it basically happens like you, you left him and you were, you left him. Did you know that he was still breathing? Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: when you left him and she gets sent to prison for like seven years and then has their baby in prison. And they say like, can hold, you can have your baby for 48 hours before we took it away, which is a true thing, which is a real thing. I looked it up. That's like pretty standard procedure. I think that there are some ⁓ prison systems, cause I think there's one actually over at UMS here in Little Rock. Shame: Hmm. Isaac: where they have a maternal ward where they, can like nurse their babies, which I think is like what it should be like. Uh, but I was uncertain, but I looked it up and apparently it's like, you get the baby for 48 hours after it's born, but then she doesn't get to have her baby because she was born early and her lungs were still developing. So they took her off to the NICU and they never brought the baby back to like see her, which I don't think would happen. So yeah. Shame: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I Phoebe Bridgers's Line: So one, I went to the bathroom and I texted you guys that. Two, it was his parents, it was Scotty's parents, not her parents that they were with. You said hers. And yeah, idiot. Isaac: ⁓ did I say her parents? Damn. We don't, she's, she's homeless or she's not homeless. She's an orphan. She doesn't have parents. It's probably why she's like just the way she is. Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: She's an orphan. She's an orphan and homeless. Well, and like, yeah, so they make it seem like she's just like, like, or his parents are like kind of uppity, which is funny because Scotty looks like a stoner. Like, and again, no judgment. And he is because he takes a gummy. ⁓ And also the Carrick scene I thought was interesting because they hit, they don't hit a rock. They hit a pothole. Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and he is, I guess, right? Isaac: Yeah, likes having those gummies. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: and and it's like the pothole i guess was deep enough that it caused the car to flip which is wild to me like Isaac: It was just like an implausible crash. It was implausible. I told Wok, yeah, you... yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: It just, yeah, also, also Isaac failed to mention that Coldplay's yellow is playing through this whole scene. And it was such a wild, the needle drops in this film are fascinating, just wild. So, so yeah, so he's, know, Scotty is in the passenger seat, passenger princess, stoned out of his mind, singing yellow. Shame: What? A bottle? Isaac: yeah! This was another, I was like laughing out loud. Shame: ⁓ my gosh. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: very poorly, which like, hey, we've all we've all been there. ⁓ So so he he's singing and then she starts singing and then hits this massive pothole that flips their car. And and yeah, she can't feel a pulse. So she thinks he's dead. And I would just like to say. Because his arm was like pinned. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: It was because his arm was broken, which I don't... I think you would still be able to feel the pulse. Just like basic anatomy to the... Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I think you would still be able to fill a poll. I don't know. I don't know. I've never. Yeah, yeah, please Google that. And yeah, so she's, I mean, she's she's been in this really bad wreck and she's covered in like blood. She looks disheveled. And I would like to say it is not surprising to me that people just drove past her because I've listened to enough true crime docs or podcasts where they've talked about like women who've who've come out of the woods and have been Shame: You know what, I'll Google that. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: in really horrible situations and walked for miles. So that wasn't, that was the most believable part of this whole movie, honestly. So. Shame: I would like to confirm that the majority of the time you can feel a pulse if someone's arm Isaac: Not to me. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Okay, all right, thank you. Isaac: I think what they said was like the circulation was cut off, now that I'm thinking about it. But still. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah, his arm was pinned. But still. ⁓ Please do. Shame: Can I, I wanna say something too. I don't, like, I don't care. Like, what is she gonna do for him if he's alive? What do they expect for her to do? The best thing for her to do is to go get help, no? What was she gonna do that kept him alive long enough for some random person to find them apparently on this remote road? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Right, exactly. Right. Isaac: So, yeah, they... Phoebe Bridgers's Line: right. And they were in middle of nowhere. I think the issue is she stumbles, somehow gets back to her apartment, question mark, or his apartment, and they find her like collapsed on the floor. Now, my guess is she was probably in shock and the adrenaline was what kept her going long enough to get to her home base. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: And as soon as she got in through the door, she probably just passed out. ⁓ So she fled the scene. of course that looks suspicious. She was high and that was probably still in her system when she was arrested. Please do. Shame: Yeah. Well, let me ask you a question real quick. How long do we think after she took this weed gummy, was she found by the police? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: They make it seem like it's pretty soon after. Shame: Okay, interesting. Isaac: Yeah. Because the sun's like setting whenever they... Phoebe Bridgers's Line: So, but who knows? Yeah. Isaac: Yeah, yeah, or canoodling. Shame: That I'm just curious because like, know, I there's this lawyer that I've seen, I used to see. Yeah, THC can be in your system like you cannot have smoked in a month and you can test positive for DHC. Like, but I was asking because there's like this lawyer that I used to see on TikTok who's really funny, who would post videos after he would get someone off of like a DUI and would like selfie video outside the courthouse like. Isaac: Those stay in your system for a long time too. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Shame: This person crashed into a minivan full of kids and I just got them off. Like literally, I'm not joking, real lawyer. And ⁓ he would give people advice. if you are drinking and driving and do some, like he would say like, if you're drinking and driving and you crash your car and then like you should leave. He's like, what you should do is leave and then come back. And when the police were like, Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Wow. I would believe you. Mm-hmm. Shame: Are you drunk? You're like, yeah, the wreck stressed me out so much. I went and got drunk and came back and he's like, and they, cannot do shit about it. He's like, they can't do anything about it. You're good. So I was just seeing her defense attorney was not that good if he didn't get her off. So. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Ha ha ha! That's really funny. That's hilarious. No, I don't think she had a good lawyer. It very much seemed like she was very poor, had no support whatsoever, and his parents did not seem to like her at all. ⁓ At all. And so, so yeah. Isaac: She was going to jail. Shame: Hmm. Isaac: Aww. They even say what are the, I think Lauren Graham says. You looked so unremorseful that day in the courtroom. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Well, so no, no, Ledger says that to her and he wasn't even there. He was like, yeah, Scotty's parents said you looked like you said like his parents said this, the the, you know, lawyers said this and the the jury said, like everyone said that you looked unremorseful. And and she's which is crazy to say about someone who was in a car wreck that killed your boyfriend, like. Isaac: ⁓ yeah. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: She's still in shock. I don't know. People don't understand grief very well. And so I just, I don't know. Shame: Right. Isaac: Yeah, I mean like the whole thing just, the whole movie just feels like this feels like a privileged white woman's fantasy of like getting herself into a situation so that she can get out of it in a way that she wants to happen. Someone who's wealthy and strong and owns a bar and has integrity and there's like an enemies to lovers dynamic and it was just... Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Isaac: Yeah, a little embarrassing, but. Shame: Well... Phoebe Bridgers's Line: wasn't even a very good enemies to lovers dynamic. you know, listen, here's how I feel about a lot of stuff. Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy. If you really like these sort of cheesy books, great. That's fine. Isaac: there. right. I'm not, yeah, not making you feel bad. It's just how I... Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I think that a lot of people who are fans of Colleen Hoover act like she is God's gift to modern literature. And I would say she's probably not. I don't know who is. I don't read modern literature like that. it just it's yeah, it feels like she's trying to say something without actually saying something. All the criticism I've seen about Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: about one battle after another, feel like is actually what should be said about Colleen Hoover's books. you know, people are just, so it just, feels lackluster and empty. Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: Yeah. Shame: Yeah, I So all of that right to say I would 100 % know what the woman who was in a car crash that killed my best friend looked like And as she walked into my bar, I would immediately recognize her even if I had never seen her You know before the car wreck, I would definitely know what she looked like afterwards and to It is I like stuff that I know is not Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah! Right. Isaac: You Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: the most amazing world-changing art, but I like it, and that's totally fine. So you can like Colleen Hoover books and also recognize that they also kind of are shitty and she can suck in different ways. That's fine, both can be true. Not everything you like has to be world-changing and beautiful, incredible art. I love Vanderpump rules, and that, it actually is world-changing. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaac: Good night. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hahaha Shame: But it's definitely not beautiful art. know, it's shit to your reality TV and it's awesome. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I was like, what were you gonna say? Isaac: It's S tier, S for shit. Okay, okay, there are two like icky things that I remembered that I was gonna share to see what Walker's reaction is. The first is that like they have sex for the first time after like it builds up and builds up and they have sex and he wakes up in her bed and it's raining outside. Yeah. Shame: Yeah, literally. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: What? An air mattress, by the way. The first time they have sex is on an air mattress, which feels... It could have been on the couch. Couch to air mattress. Isaac: It's an air mattress that he gave her. Well, it may have been on the couch. Shame: I Isaac: I think it started on the Couch to air mattress. Have you had sex on the air mattress? Shame: I'm gonna wait to say what I was gonna Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Please wait. Shame: Well, no, I was gonna say, haven't, but I have slip on an air mattress. I think having sex on it would be pretty hard. I don't... Isaac: ⁓ yeah, who among us? ⁓ yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I don't feel like it would be fun or enjoyable. Isaac: Um, you could do it to save, don't it? Gives me an idea. Shame: Yeah. You want me to get it out of the closet and blow it up? You want me to report back? Like, is that what you're saying? Isaac: So she's writing in her notebook and she has like these stacks of like composite notebooks. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: thought you were sa- I'm sorry. When you said writing, I thought you said RY-DING. Yeah, and I was like, okay, I guess we're gonna talk about it. RY-TING. Isaac: ⁓ you meant like RIDIG? Shame: Hehehe Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Isaac: She's writing when he wakes up and in the composite notebook and she, Olivia's gone. ⁓ She, he goes, what are you writing? And ⁓ she goes, you're not gonna like it. And he's like, he says, no, come over here and read it to me. And she, and I kid you not, this is how it starts. It's like one of the letters to Scotty. And she goes, Shame: you Phoebe Bridgers's Line: ⁓ my gosh. Isaac: Scotty, I just had sex with your best friend. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: That's how it starts. Isaac: And it is like just so, so icky and weird and messed up. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. And she goes on to say it wasn't as good as it was with you. Shame: What? Like, what is the message of this movie? doesn't like- Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Who's to say? I don't know. I... What? Isaac: I was hoping Olivia could tell us. I was hoping Olivia could tell us. You like, you know people's brains, you know? Shame: You Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I mean... Well, so, I mean, you included this in the agenda that you put together for us. ⁓ There are attempts at themes here, you know, talking about motherhood and forgiveness and redemption. And there are just little flashes of that where it's like, you know, this could have been so good. ⁓ Isaac: or at least like interesting. But if you only dedicate one scene to it, then that's not enough and it just feels like, it feels lazy. Shame: Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah. And I don't, I don't know. I haven't worked in DHS, so I don't know this for sure. I don't know if her rights would have been terminated as a parent just like that. Isaac: I think they would have. Like I think most, especially conservative states, yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I, not for an accidental manslaughter. Now, if she had straight up killed him, like that's a different story, but like this is an accidental manslaughter case. And yeah, it was seven years and she got out early. She got out two years early. Shame: Yeah. Right. She got 7 years for accidental manslaughter? Isaac: It was seven years, right? Yeah. Shame: Okay. Isaac: Okay, the other thing I was gonna, go ahead. Shame: I feel like I've seen cases where it's pretty clear that someone killed someone, but they have to do manslaughter for whatever reason. And it's like way less than seven, it's like two or three years, yeah. That's interesting. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isaac: like two years. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah. Isaac: Yeah, I mean, so, okay, the other thing that I was gonna tell Walker was ⁓ she starts working at the bar and how you find out that, and this is like a lot longer into the movie than you would think it would be, where it's like, okay, why did he come back? And we haven't even talked about like, Shame: Mm-hmm. Isaac: DM their daughter, which is like a stupid name. Like, sorry, I think it's a stupid, stupid name. Makes me mad. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Stupid name! Every time they said DM, I was like, what does DM stand for? I thought it was like D period ⁓ like DW from Arthur. It's D-I-E-M. Yeah. Shame: Hehehe... Hehehe... Isaac: but it's D-I-E-M apparently. So you don't know why Ledger has come back. You don't know why Ledger's come back, but there's two things. She starts working at ⁓ the bar and she comes into the waiting, or like the office that's kind of small, but they're like hanging out in there. And she goes, what are all the mugs in here? Shame: Wh- What? Mm-hmm. Isaac: and he goes, because there's like dozens of mugs nailed up around the wall, on the walls, hearkening back to like the very beginning of the movie when he opens that Denver Broncos mug. he goes, every, Olivia help, yeah, his buddy, Ledger's buddy, he goes, every week I'm sober, he buys me a new mug. Shame: Mm-hmm. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: His buddy, his buddy, not, not Tyreek Withers. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: And Mike, Mike, I'm a drug just goes, huh. It's just, it's like all they say about it. There, there's like one other scene when he's like, is before she started working at the bar. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah. Isaac: Ledger and his buddy have a exchange and he goes, she's a bad person, she left him to die. And then he goes, hey man, maybe you're being a little hard on her. I was at my worst and you gave me another chance. And then he goes, what are they doing out there, Olivia? They're like out in the back and they're not smoking. They're not. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I don't know what they're doing. He's like cleaning something. ⁓ yeah, he has some sunflower seeds. Isaac: ⁓ yeah, he's like, want some sunflower seeds? And then he like goes back inside. And that's what changes Ledger's mind about her. Cause he goes, you were there for me and my horse. Hey man, you need to just take it easy. You want some sunflower seeds? That's like it. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Which is like, not right, we are very much just putting these two male characters in a box and we're not adding any sort of depth to them. We're attempting, I think, but we're not really adding depth to them. Like, could not be more like, this is how guys talk, right? They don't actually talk about anything. And so it's just, it's so annoying because it's like, we don't know how they know each other. Shame: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: Yeah Phoebe Bridgers's Line: We don't know their background and not that I think we need to know every single thing about their history, but it's like, is this his brother? Is this his cousin? Is this one of his buddies? How did he like, there's no like, hey, remember when I was at like, there's just none of that. And it was so annoying. Shame: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, know, buying. Right. That's interesting. Isaac: ⁓ and they work at a bar too, and he's like sober. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Which is like, that's not the first time I've seen something like that. But another piece of medium I've seen that in is in One Tree Hill, where one of the characters in that show who comes in later in one of the later seasons works at a bar and he's sober. So it's like not the first time I've seen that and that's whatever, but it's just like... Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: You're just gonna give them sunflower seeds and move on. Isaac: Okay, and then. Shame: Yeah, that I would appreciate a little bit. I would have appreciated a little bit more explanation about the mug. Like we need to know the backstory of the mugs. Like I have friends. Right. Well, and I have friends who are sober and like am happy to support them in that journey. I have never bought them a mug to celebrate. it feels like that means something specific. Like that's not like Isaac: for coffee, for hot chocolate, like. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: What does it mean? Who's to say? Shame: You know, it's not like, ⁓ I've got my one year sober chip. Like we all know what that is. That's like, we understand that. But like a mug that's so specific and it's like, there has to be a story there and I want to know what it is. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Right. Mm-hmm. Isaac: It reminds me of the, think you should leave sketch with the, ⁓ the zip line. she, she's like, what's waiting for you at home? And he goes, I don't know. She goes, you don't know? He goes. Shame: Hahaha Isaac: What is the bug for? I don't know. Okay, we can wrap up here in a second, but what ends up happening is like, and I roll my eyes so hard when there's a revelation that ⁓ he's building his house by himself in this beautiful area overlooking the valley. And you're like, okay, they're gonna get. Shame: Yeah, I don't know. Isaac: together and work it out and DM's gonna live with them and they're gonna be a family. It's like, that's what's gonna happen. We know what's gonna happen. But the way that the parents find out that she is, that they're in love, is they have sex again. You don't see it this time, but you just see them like wake up on the floor in the house that's unfinished. Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Super sexy, by the way. Isaac: and he turns to her and says, what happened that night? Shame: Hehehehe Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I need to know what happened. Isaac: and she's like I don't want to talk about it and she tells him and after she tells him Bradley Whitford comes into the house yes that's what happens no it's after Phoebe Bridgers's Line: No, you're con- these are two different- these are two different scenes! They have sex multiple times in that house. The unfinished house. Those are two different scenes. Shame: on the unfinished floor. Isaac: ⁓ I didn't pick up on that. Okay, well, I thought it was a say. Who's to say? Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: And then either way, it's stupid. Bradley Whitford just walks in unannounced and he sees them together. At first he just sees Ledger and is like, ⁓ my bad. And then was like, what is she doing here? And he gets super, super pissed. He storms home. They go back to like find him and he drops Kena off. Yes, Isaac. Isaac: Yeah, naked. Okay, and so this area is overlooking the valley and the next scene where ⁓ Bradley Whitford punches him in the face for hooking up with her, he punches him like multiple times. That happens in their neighborhood and so you're like, did he follow him for like 30 minutes back to civilization, like back to this suburb? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. multiple times. Shame: Damn. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: I'm Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Isaac: to like have this all, it's just like so jarring. So that's what I'm just like, I can't not think about the commute, you know? Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah. Yeah. It the the the way you if they had just not shot these wide scenery shot like scenes shots then then we wouldn't be sitting here going how long did it take them to get if they had just made it more more like tighter shots more compact we would not be like Did he did he take 30 minutes to drive 30 minutes to drive Kenna back to her her motel apartment Isaac: The 30 minute commute! Shame: Yeah. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: another 30 minutes to drive to his house while Bradley Whitford is out in his front yard at what 3 a.m. Who knows what time of ⁓ night it is. It's still dark outside. Punches him in the face. No cops are called. No, no one hears the commotion. No cops are called. The next morning he goes and it's like, I think it's like sun, like the sun is rising. He goes to Kenna's apartment and he's got a Isaac: Ha Repeatedly. Shame: Right. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: you know, his face is all busted up and and he Isaac: Ken is like, I have to leave. She can never, because he's taken, he's like become a father figure to DM, like, ⁓ yeah, we didn't even tell you that. Like, he's become a father figure to DM. She was like, I can't ruin this for her. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah, she's like, I guess I have to leave now. And he's like, what are you talking about? Yeah. So yeah, because he wasn't there for Scotty. He's he's there for Scotty's kit, which is sweet. And I can I can appreciate that. Like, I can appreciate that anyway. So, yeah, so she's like, I'm to leave. So this doesn't ruin anything between you guys. And you can still be a part of her life. He steal while she's like packing up, he steals the journal that has the entry of the night that Scotty died. He gives it to Scotty's parents, Lauren Graham and Shame: Right. Yeah, that's nice. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Bradley Whitford, and Lauren reads it. Lauren Graham reads it, goes to Kenna and is like, you can meet her and I can't promise anything past that. And then they're fine. Everything's great. Yeah. Shame: That's it. Isaac: I have dinner, Lauren Graham cries. and then they get to live together in the house and she goes, the reminders Scotty, the reminders of you now only make me smile or I know it's been a while since I've written you bullshit like that. So that's the movie. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Shame: Wow, I'm so sad that the power was out at the Cinemark and I couldn't go see this. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yup. Isaac: Five star masterpiece. Ha Phoebe Bridgers's Line: You've really missed out. Shame: I Isaac: If we had all seen it together, would have been incredible. Shame: Yeah, that would have been a good one. I would have probably drank a real full-size bottle of Jameson to be honest. Isaac: Not since- ⁓ yeah. Not since Madame Webb have I seen a movie so like incoherent and nonsensical. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah. I would rather watch Madame Web. Isaac: Me too. Shame: Can as a little palate cleanser before we finish and wrap up can I read you guys an excerpt from? ⁓ From my favorite excerpt of Colleen Hoover's writing Okay, so this is from her book ugly love so here we go Thank you for this baby she says from the backseat. He's beautiful. I laugh You're responsible for the beautiful part Rachel Phoebe Bridgers's Line: So. Yeah Isaac: Yes. Shame: The only thing he got from me was his balls. She laughs. She laughs hard. ⁓ my God, I know, she says. They're so big. We both laugh at our son's big balls. Also, all those pauses, there's so many commas in that, but that's my favorite ⁓ Colleen Hoover piece of writing right there. Isaac: Olivia looks aghast. Shame: You Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I... someone said that Emerald Fennell was the Colleen Hoover of directing. And now that you've read that, because I've seen a couple pieces, like, excerpts from her writing. That, I think, is the worst of them, though. So, honestly, that's insulting to compare Emerald Fennell to her. Shame: Hahaha Isaac: ⁓ She's a cut above. Shame: Yeah. It's Yeah. I knew Savannah showed me this and I was like shocked. I was like, this is the New York Times bestseller Golly Newver. And do you guys know about her new book? Have you heard about it? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: think I have, but I've locked it for my memory. Shame: Yeah, so Colleen Hoover has a new book that is out. Let me look up the title real quick. It is called Woman Down. Woman Down. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: ⁓ yes, I do know about it, I do know about it, I do know about it. ⁓ Shame: Yeah, this book is about ⁓ an author who had a book that was made into a movie and it received a lot of backlash and she's figuring out how to navigate that. Isaac: ⁓ yeah! Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Her character is, she hasn't had to deal with that. Shame: Right. Yeah, the person, the character in the book, the main character of the book, Petra Rose, be exact. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: main character of this book, Woman Down. Petra. Shame: That's like another thing. Isaac: I wonder if her- Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Which, hey, I don't know if this matters to anyone. Petra is the name of a character in Jane the Virgin which Justin Baldoni was in. Shame: ⁓ that- no, that means everything to me. Isaac: hilarious. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Just a little something something there. Isaac: I if our editor reads this and like, it doesn't matter what changes I make, it's going to make me so much money. I wonder if they have, no, here's second draft, no, here's third draft, we gotta keep working on this, or it's just like, sure, send it to print, we're gonna make so much money. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: You We're gonna make a ton of money. Shame: Yeah, I don't think there's anything they can do with amount of commas in that one little sentence or that like three sentences about how big those characters sons balls were yeah, the editors really Yeah a child Yeah, yeah, she's an interesting person and I was there anyone with the last name of a flower like related to flowers in this cuz I Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah. This is a baby they're talking about. Isaac: And he's like, he's like a month old. Shame: Petra Rose and then the main character and it ends with us is Lily Bloom and she owns a flower shop. So the only two things I know, like characters I know about calling Hoover, they have, are related to flowers, so. Isaac: Let me look at the... Let's look at these. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I don't. Isaac: No. they name- Shame: Okay, so she didn't do it for this one. Good for her. Good for her. Isaac: Henna Ledger. Yeah, she loves flowers. ⁓ Phoebe Bridgers's Line: What is DM? ⁓ Carpe Diem. Idiots. Isaac: Should I wrap this up for us? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Yeah, well yeah, let's land this plane. Shame: Yeah, let's do it. Isaac: Okay, yeah. Let's land this plane and not hit any potholes. Thank you. Yeah. Shame: I have to, real quick, I've hit some big potholes in my life, some really big ones. Like don't know if there could be bigger ones than the ones I'm a dumbass and I've hit. Never come close to flipping my effing car. I mean, what the hell are we talking about? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Mm-hmm. Isaac: I don't I honestly can't remember how they end up in the ditch. I thought they hit a big rock or something I could It's hilarious and maybe was supposed to like bust the tire and then they go that careens them out of control But that's not what I remember. I just remember like that That sent them into the ditch off the side of the road anyway Phoebe Bridgers's Line: No, was a pothole. It... yeah. right. Yeah. Shame: Yeah, it's pretty wild. Isaac: Thank you for listening, please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Share this with someone who is a Colleen Hoover fan so we can infuriate them. Shame: Please, please, please. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: Hahaha Isaac: And our next art music is by Korden Jocks. Our art is by Sean Cohen. And thank you to Walter Lyle for producing this episode. Hopefully we get the last 15 minutes back. Sorry about that on the Lego movie episode. ⁓ Everyone, that was unfortunate, but shit happens. So sorry. And our next. episode is Project Hail Mary, arguably the first great movie of... No, there was another one. ⁓ But first great movie we're covering on the podcast this year. Shame: I... Yeah, what are you talking about? Phoebe Bridgers's Line: What was, what are you talking about? Isaac: We didn't cover the Bone Temple, but the Bone Temple came out the first week of January and it is gonna be in my top 10. It's an incredible. Shame: ⁓ Yeah. I have to say about Pride to Tell Mary, I'm so pumped. I've got my tickets for IMAX at 7.30 on Saturday. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: I'm seeing you Saturday. So excited. Shame: Let's go. I'm seeing it with like all of Savannah's family and Savannah's not gonna be there because she's gonna be in Nashville. but they, she is, who would have guessed? My sister's actually, but yeah. So I'm so pumped. I read the book last year. It's amazing. I'm excited. Isaac: might see you there. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: ⁓ okay, is she going to a bachelor party? All right. Nice. Isaac: She can be boot scootin'. Phoebe Bridgers's Line: It's gotten really good reviews. Shame: Yeah. Isaac: I'm pumped. Let's do it. All right. Thank you guys for listening. We will catch you on the flippity flip.