Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Hello, this is the Coaching Method podcast, and today we have with us the Catherine Lorde, Master of Social Work and a community and partner engagement leader at ICF. Hi Catherine, would you like to add something to your titles? Katherine Lord: Sure. let's see. So many titles. The most important one probably is Mom, as well. But for these purposes, yes, I'm the director of organizational member experience with the International Coaching Federation's Coaching and Organizations group. with that role, and we'll probably talk more about that in a little bit, but ICF being the a global body for professional coaches, we have an area that is focused specifically on organizational coaching programs. And so I work with companies that are running that kind of program in-house and am also a coach myself. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Awesome. I am really happy that you joined us, Catherine, because I think you can give us a particular view of coaching being employed by ICF on one hand and being a coach yourself on another hand. And I also know that we are I guess in the similar stages of our coaching career, right? So it's also interesting to have someone more of the beginning of the coaching career journey and compare and maybe hear different perspectives of people who been a long time in the coaching and people who started not that long ago. So I I'm really curious to know why why did you decide to become a coach? Katherine Lord: So The first part of that story is that I got connected to ICF. I worked on behalf of coaches before I became a coach. I have been tied to helping professions through my whole career, from hospitality and event management to later social work, as you mentioned. And About 10 years ago, I started working with associations, and I've worked now for three. And that coincided with a move that I made from Colorado to Washington, DC, where I live now, which is a hub for association work. And having worked in associations, I found a tendency to be really inspired by community engagement and supporting people professionally but also. Personally through their own journeys, which is what associations are so great at doing. And about two years ago, I joined the International Coaching Federation, which, as we mentioned, is a about 60,000-person global association for professional coaches and the coaching profession. And when this role came up, specifically for organizations and as this member experience director, it seemed like the perfect fit, very much aligned with where I was and I'd say maybe two or three weeks into the to the job, I said, okay, I'm all in. I love coaching. This sounds great. Sign me up. So fortunately ICF is really supportive of our staff pursuing coach education and pursuing coaching. So I was able to go through a coach education course. And now I am continuing to pursue the the first credential, the ACC We've almost racked up enough coaching hours to sit for the exam, so that's next on the list. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Awesome. I really find it interesting that you said and it makes sense being master of social work that you've been around like helping professions for a long time and you worked with coaches before you became a coach yourself. So what your opinion do you think there should be more coaches in the social work and helping professions or more coaching skills? there or people use coaching skills without knowing that they do coaching there. Katherine Lord: Great insight, and it's it's one of the the platforms that I'm building that I think should be socialized. So I appreciate that that question. I now having gone through coach education and and doing nearly 100 hours of of coaching practice. I believe that it is an industry and it is a skill set that is valuable for anyone. And I think there are a few of those. If you go to law school, if you go to social work school, if you learn these kinds of things that just help you in how you walk across the planet and commune with other people are really valuable. And I think coaching skills fits into that category. Beyond that, I think coaching skills are leadership skills. I think they're interpersonal skills, I think they're empathy skills. And so integrating coaching behaviors particularly, open mindset, leading with curiosity, empathy, et cetera. These are so valuable in any profession and especially in helping professions. I've said before that I finally learned how to ask a question when I went through coach education, despite having lived a number of years and gone through social work school. The main difference with things like social work and psychology and psychiatry, which are of course incredibly valuable professions and helping people. it comes those typically come from a pathological perspective. So looking for a diagnosis and even learning, looking for a solution. Sometimes I think in those in those scenarios, either appropriately or maybe not, the professional is looking for a problem to solve. And yet what I find with coaching is that it's more about being with a person. at ICF we taught we call it thought partnership and I think that partnership signifies an ability to co-create, an ability to be innovative, and actually leaves room for more possibility than a pathological approach. So to wrap that up to answer your question, yes, I think there should be more coaching, whether direct coaching or just the integration of coaching skills, because I find them so valuable and powerful. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah, I mean that's a very interesting topic on where else the coaching skills can be brought and not necessarily by a certified coach but just by a trained person. As you mentioned, learning to ask questions it's a very powerful tool. And while I was getting my coaching education, the educator Which is amazing Corey from the coaching academy for leaders. Corey, the coaching educator who taught me, mentioned that coaching also changed the way she often communicates with her kids. Katherine Lord: yeah. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: so I wanted to ask you about that. Did the coaching change you communicate with your kiddos? Katherine Lord: Yeah, so I have a four-year-old son and a two-year-old daughter. And I had I mean, I still really don't have any idea what I'm doing. I'm just trying to make good choices and be a good model for them. but yes, I would say I didn't have a lot of time. do things differently before I learned about coaching skills. But this one example I think demonstrates just the a shift. So my son goes to a school that's within walking distance of our house. So we walk him to school in the morning and walk him home in the afternoon. And I when I started coach school I was challenging myself to stay with the thread of questions. So we as humans and certainly grown-up humans and maybe even more so as parents really want to give the answer. We really want to say, here's the problem, let's find the solution, carry on. So, mama, what is this? That's a dandelion. We move on. But I started challenging myself for the whole walk home from school to not provide an answer when these questions would erupt and actually just keep asking questions. So this was like a 20 minute walk home with my four year old of just asking him questions. So rather than saying that's a dandelion and move on, he'd say, Mama, what's that? I'd say, well what does it look like? Well I think it looks like a flower. What kind of flower do you think it is? it It's a yellow flower. Ooh, what do you like about the color yellow? And just keep asking. And first of all, I think it helped my question asking muscle of coming up with questions that weren't, I don't know, not that interesting because I needed to stay engaged in the conversation. But also just hearing Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm-hmm. Katherine Lord: what this little mind had to say was so illuminating. And I I gleaned so much information that I never would have received had I just answered, that's a dandelion. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Wow, that's brilliant. I should remember that when mine are older can speak and ask questions. This is lovely. Katherine Lord: And that's the thing too. It's of course it's it's age appropriate. I can't do that with my two year old. She's very much in the like mine no stage of life. but still practicing some of those questions. I mean, it's an easy audience. They're forced to live with me. So I can Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: See what see what questions I can I can try out and and what kind of response I I can get. Less so with my husband, I'd say, you know, they th those ones really close to us can see through it and and sometimes he just needs instruction. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. I find out that I ask my husband if he comes with some problem from work, he wants to share. I will ask him do you want a coach Olga or you want a wife Olga? The same with friends. Katherine Lord: Right, exactly. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: I'm like, do you want me to answer like a coach or like a friend? Katherine Lord: Yeah. And I think it's so important for ourselves and for those around us to to know that distinction. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: I also think that holds the coaching space This Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm. Katherine Lord: is my word, but it co holds that space sacred in a way and also the other role in a sacred space. So that wife Olga Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: gets continued to be wife Olga and Coach Olga. There there's probably a blend in there at some point, but Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah, well gives the choice, you know. S Katherine Lord: Right. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: sometimes when we have a problem we don't want to go through it and find a solution, we just want compassion. Right? Katherine Lord: And and vice versa. I mean sometimes it's hey, we need a babysitter tomorrow night. I don't wanna hear, well what what value is being energized by needing a babysitter is like, no, I just need to be called somebody and get a Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: baby sitter. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Right? Or doing chores, something like that. Yeah. Katherine Lord: Yeah. Yeah. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: So I think it's interesting topic and I'm sure that there certain amount of people in the similar shoes that we are that are women in the up like Approaching the coaching while they're in the early stages of the motherhood and being I would say the age of a career pivot. I'm not sure how old you are, Catherine. I'm 37, and on one hand, I many years ago would expect myself to be very established professional by this time, but here I am changing my career to coaching in the last couple of years. starting the family with kids. How was that for you to navigate this space and if you have anything to say to other women in this position? Katherine Lord: So I am proud to say I'm 40. And I had a pretty significant awakening as I approached my 40th birthday. I had this thought to myself of and it it starts it started out a little negative, but I I I turned it around. The first was what regrets do I have from my last 40 years? And there are a handful. And then I pushed that forward and said, what regrets don't I want to have when I'm 80? I have another 40 years, so what can I do now that I would look back on, you know, without regret. And I I landed on a on a few things and I have begun to pursue those things. And part of it I think is that, and this maybe is is some. bit of the coaching mindset that some coaches say we begin with the end in mind. And so if you are thinking out, and this is a coaching, obviously a coaching tool to say, okay, imagine you're 80 and think about this, you know, we we do this scaling forward sort of thing. That's the invitation. And that there that length of time can be any length of time. What do I want to look back In a week from today, and witness. What do I want to look in 10 years? Look back. What do I want to witness? And on and on you can go. And so I too have had both from my own initiative and from outside sources forcing change upon me had to reevaluate my life and say this is the path I'm gonna go down now that My invitation to particularly women Who are managing career children, often aging loved ones, aging parents, aging in laws, and also much more transient than we used to be. So far from family, far from those networks that we were raised in, is that the ability to stretch and think. backwards from the future can help bring some possibility, enrichment, energy into that decision, even when it's challenging. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Wow. I I mean it's it's really close to home everything that you said and it's so easy to lose the track of that as you said like the end in mind when you have young kids, as you said, aging parents, in laws, you need to keep the home decent and the kids alive and fed and clean and work and you know the daily grind becomes So overwhelming, yeah. I don't think at least for myself, I don't think I have a lot of moments when I just stop and think, okay, what's gonna happen next? What do I want to look back at 60, 70, 80, and so on, you know? So I think it would be so excellent to remember that sometimes, and I think. It's great that you had that moment of the realization closer to your forty and not closer to your sixties or seventies. So congratulations. Katherine Lord: Well thank you. And and I I I've done some some work with with older adults in in talking about, you know, what the what do they want post retirement? What do they want in this in that chapter of their lives? And it's still valid. That's that's the piece is I think people are quick to say, well, I don't have enough time for that. I'm I it's too late. I'm already forty. I'm already fifty. I'm already eighty. And Can you hold both and say, all right, I've got okay 40 good 40 years left. What can I do with them? You could have that outlook of understanding our own mortality, and a lot can happen in 40 years. A lot can happen in a day. This also ties to something I'm very passionate about, which is core values. the core values being the things that we have so deeply in us that serve as the compass for our decisions, whether we're overtly aware of it or not. And Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm. Katherine Lord: so when we get clear on those core values, Thinking from the future and back and making decisions can become a little bit easier because we have some guideposts to say, well, this is what matters most to me. And so I'm going to make decisions in line with that. I have found that helpful because of everything you just described about the life of a 40-year-old mom, which is bonkers. which is exhausting and exciting and wonderful and emotional and we have all all these things going on. And so I I joke sort of lovingly about I I have to outsource so much from my brain now. That's why I'm grateful to AI in many ways. but Not that understanding my core values is outsourcing, but it's getting clear on what I know deeply matters most to me. So I can sort of push everything else aside. It it gives me clarity on where I'm going. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: I think it's also age, I mean thinking about myself, that the older you get, the more clear you become on what truly matters and what doesn't. Katherine Lord: Yes. And and it can can shift. I mean we we see these studies on what people say on their deathbeds, which is like, Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: I should have been with my kids more. I should have told my kids I love them more, I should have spent more time with my mom. Whatever. It's it's typically not I should have made more money. I should have I should have worked more. Yeah. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: I should have worked more hours. Katherine Lord: And so, you know, I see I see people who make decisions or fail to make decisions because of fear, because of a scarcity mindset, because of the idea that it's too late. And I feel like if you can hone in on what does matter most, that invigorates decision making, that allows you to then sort of amid all of the chaos, still keep doing what you wanna do. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: I think for many people, particularly women that I know at least, having kids, looking kids grow up and actually wanting a good life for them, it's such a strong catalyst, okay, I d I have to do something. I have to do what I want, I have to get better life, better better anything. There are men who also experience that motivation but But pretty much most of the mothers I know definitely got super motivated by that. Katherine Lord: And it's probably like there's probably a shadow side to that too, of I I Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm. Katherine Lord: want to do so much for for my kids. I also want to prioritize being with them, not always doing for. And I also have recognized that doing for myself is actually doing for them. So you may feel this. I I nearly every day when I drop my two-year-old off at daycare so that I can go to Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm. Katherine Lord: my job, the it stings a little. And there's guilt. for some reason less so now with my son, because he's older and so he's like in school and needs Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm. Katherine Lord: to be there. But with with the little one. particular you she both my children went went to daycare when they were four months old because I went back to work. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm-hmm. Katherine Lord: And I hold that guilt and I hold that I get to tell them Mama was on a podcast, Mama went to this conference and spoke, mama does this. You know, they they know my boss. They know that I you know, I refer to him as Bobby and they know when Mama needs to talk to Bobby. And so so that's like I'm While I'm not them with them every day, what else am I giving them? And It's giving me something. I enjoy it. So they see me enjoying, which I think is really valuable too. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: percent and I had to also like tell myself that there are many different ways of motherhood and to be a mother. There's not a one single recipe that should fit all. There are women who are stay-at-home mothers and they enjoy it and they love it and that's great. and women who work and there are many many many different options as far as you have a choice which one to go Katherine Lord: Right. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: for. And you choose based on your values, as you said, and not purely on the financial standpoint, which is a big factor, of course, as well, right? But I think that's valid. And I wanted to continue this conversation into the values because you talked about them understanding what your values are, and I wanted to ask you. If you have a particular framework that you like to use for that Katherine Lord: Great question. So and I can certainly provide the link in your show notes. So there are a million values frameworks, you know, as as you can imagine. I learned about These ironically I learned about these values cards at a job where I was not valued and did not see a lot of value. No one saw value in me there. and then was fired. let go. So but this was the this was the silver lining that I got in touch with with this value thing. And there are these it's like a deck of cards and and there's a whole process that you go through of don't know, it's a hundred something values on cards and the the value is on one side and the definition is on the back. And so you go through and it's sort of a sorting process. You sort all the ones that resonate with you, push the rest aside, go through again and say, okay, yeah, these ones feel right. and then you sort of categorize them and by whittling things down and grouping things together, you land typically between three and seven core values. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm-hmm. Katherine Lord: Mine, if you're interested, are leadership, integrity, and joy. And once I went through that process and labeled them, so many things became clear to me, Olga. The first thing that came clear was like, that's what I'm chasing, are like those three things. That is what I am trying to cultivate in my life. Joy, probably being paramount. integrity underneath that for me is is justice and understanding and kindness and truth. And then leadership was an interesting one because perhaps people might say, it's because I want to be a leader. It's not just that. I value leadership in others. And people talk about like small acts of kindness, like that this is wonderful. When you see someone pick up a piece of tr trash on the street or help an elderly person across the road, those are small acts of kindness. I also think there's small acts of leadership. And and I love that. I love this. Let me lead by example. Let me lead with my heart and with that joy and love and integrity. And so that's what leadership means to me. this is what I find also so juicy about values is that it doesn't really matter what joy means to you, Olga. I'd be I'd be curious, but if my value Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah, yeah. Katherine Lord: so the definition Just has to resonate with me in the way that I frame it. So those three work with me. So that's the first is things became very clear about how I've structured my life to follow those three things. The other piece that became clear is that when my values, particularly those three, aren't in alignment with a person or with a situation, that's when I feel icky. If someone is Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm-hmm. Katherine Lord: really not acting With integrity. If if I am looking at and saying you are not holding to your word, you're not leading with love and empathy, which I find is integritous, it I don't like it. It makes me angry. Same with leadership. If I see missed opportunities for people to lead in a good way, really frustrates me. So I was like, this is when I get mad at things. Okay, good Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: to know. And so when I start feeling that tension, feeling that trigger, like, okay, which which one of the three is being challenged and then what is my choice? It just gives me that space to say, I see what's happening here. Let me now make a decision. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Very interesting. Do you offer your clients also to go through through these cards? Katherine Lord: Depends on where they are. I certainly bring the conversation about core values in a lot. with one client, yes, I've done the work specifically with her and and she's identified those those values that are are central to to her life. And I think it's been very powerful. It's something I would love to do more of with my clients. I think, you know, particularly when you get into the PCC, MCC level of coaching, those being the credential next to credentials with ICF, those the focus of that kind of coaching really is about the person and about those values and motivations. ACC tends to to be a little bit more around solution finding. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm-hmm. Katherine Lord: a great foundation but as you move forward and progress and strengthen your coaching skills it ends up getting back to more of the being with instead of doing for and Being able to integrate those values can be really powerful. Do you have an idea of what your core values are, Olga? Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: I'm very curious, I actually wanna do that Katherine Lord: Okay. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: fr workshop or something now. I'm gonna look if Katherine Lord: Yeah. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: I can get this deck of cards. but I'm gonna I'm not entirely sure right now. I can tell you a little anecdote that happened to me maybe three, four years ago I was just some ta from time to time interview for different positions, see what's out there, you know, in the world. And I applied for a position HR related in the company that actually produced software to test applicants or like candidates. And of course, they use their own software to test applicants, candidates for this position. And there were some questions like IQ type of testing, attention type of testing, which Which already felt a bit icky to me. I have a master degree. Why do I need to answer this question? Obviously, I am intelligent enough, you know, to I graduated high school. I think we are beyond those types of tests a little bit. but there was a part on the values, the values of the company, and some of the feedback I got after is that my values don't correspond with the values of the company. And I think one of the Values that I chose and was like strong for me was respect. And for me, it's not only respect for me, respect for others. I guess as you said, it's included for integrity. So for me, integrity is included in the respect in a way, right? So I was like, well, that is very telling on the company, and I don't want to work in a company where value my values don't correspond to their values. Katherine Lord: Yeah. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: So That is that was a good part of this test. It showed me that that's not a good much. And probably if I could give them a feedback, of course I'm not gonna name the company, I would leave that part of the testing. I think that was pretty nice and important. Yeah. Katherine Lord: Right. Even better if you remove the IQ question. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: Yeah, and that makes me wonder. The importance of working with organizations or being in relationship with people that have shared values. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm-hmm. Katherine Lord: One of the things when I do this work is say I say every value is valuable because it's valuable to some someone somewhere. And I'm thinking about in in my own family, you know, with my husband, it's like a Venn diagram. There's so many shared values and my values, my core sort of integrated into his. We the one we share is joy. and that makes a lot of sense. And if you came into my house, I I name that my my the house environment with my kids is joyful chaos. And that is what it is. So that's central to our relationship is is that seeking and embracing of joy. There are probably people Whose values are antithetical to mine, or at least in their outward expression of them. So just knowing that. But I wonder if in an organization it actually serves the organization to have. Not necessarily competing values, but complementary values. So you might not have scored whatever they were looking for on respect, but what did you score high on? And so were they really your values weren't theirs? Was it an incompatibility or was it a difference that actually could serve the organization? Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah and I mean I hope that they've thought about it, right? I have no no Katherine Lord: Right. We hope they were looking at them. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: idea about the process inside a company. But I think Katherine Lord: Right. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: what you mentioned it's very interesting approach because on one hand I wanna say that someone can have completely different values to mine and it doesn't mean that they are wrong, it's just that different people and it's beautiful. Katherine Lord: Exactly. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: the more different varieties of values people have the better, you know, the It's amazing. Katherine Lord: Right. Right. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: And of course I think the organization values should be somewhat close to your values, at least there should be some connections. Because I think it's also depends on which role you're coming, right? And if someone values a lot individualism, he will not be a good team member that has Katherine Lord: Mm. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: to work with a team of teamworkers who love the teamwork and collectivism and I'm not sure like if there is a particular value named like that, but you understand like what I'm saying, right? But then Katherine Lord: Yeah, absolutely. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: if if someone actually has to work super independently, make a lot of decisions individually is might be perfect for them, and then someone who values a team, work, and collectivism will be really struggling in there. And I think that's very powerful part like of self self-exploration, self-uh knowledge that I wish People can bring with them to their work and personal life and this is how the coaching can help them. Katherine Lord: Definitely, and I I think it's actually a great question as someone if you're interviewing for a job to say, tell me about your organization's values and how are those portrayed? So if this organization that you're talking about, they organize they value respect, okay. Well tell me what that looks like. What does valuing respect look like in your organization? There are a lot of great buzzwords on organizational websites. We're a family. I've Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Always, of course. Katherine Lord: had major problems with that, but you know, Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Katherine Lord: we're a family, we we're supportive, we have a leadership culture. It's like, okay, don't just tell me that. What does that look like? And that's a coaching question. Tell me tell me what that looks like. and so getting clear with this organization's. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Yeah. Hundred percent. So you know, we have like This part of our conversation, that's your perspective as a coach, and I wanted to actually ask you this question. that again we both are more at the beginning of our coaching session. I'm as well just pursuing my ACC certification. And is there something that you would like coaches with 10, 15, 20 years experience to know? Or if something you want to ask them. Because I have some of these people coming on the podcast as well. Katherine Lord: Great question. I love this. I love the like pass it forward questions. let me think. I guess it's a c it's a question, actually have a lot, but the the one that that I'm landing on right now is tied to my work with with ICF, working with these organizations that have an internal coaching component. These organizations are, you know, always looking at the the money. And so coaching programs are under Scrutiny might be too too harsh a word, although some probably are, but are certainly having to make the case to continue their program, either to start their program, continue their program, scale their program. And so organizations look for a traditional ROI. What is the return on investment for this coaching program? And the conversation at ICF, certainly from our CEO, Magda, and and we as coaching and organizations tried try to get this message across that you can look at ROI, there's some ways to do that, and in fact ICF is is developing a tool for that. But what does it look like when you examine ROE, such as return on expectation or return on experience? And how might me we best measure those? This gets into the qualitative measurement arena. But my question to the to the PCC and MCC, these coaches that have been in this a long time, is that that question has been asked, I think, for a long time. We've been trying to crack the code on ROI of coaching for for a while. And even some experts say it can't be done. It's too subjective. It's you just can't do it. And then the other group of people saying, well, it's kinda hard, but we'll give it a go. What is the next question? So we're Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm. Katherine Lord: looking for ROI, but bringing this back to value. So we're trying to assign a monetary value to something that might not have a monetary value. So if the question isn't, what is the ROI? What is the question? And my hypothesis, or maybe even my hope, is that it actually has less to do with money and more to do with people. But that ties to the value. If an organization values its people, and we have tons of research that says coaching is valuable for people, just care about your people and do it. Just like having air conditioning in your office building. Like it just makes it better. You don't have to. What's the ROI on it? Is anyone measuring the ROI on air conditioning? No. But if the air conditioning is off in your factory, you're gonna have problems. So, how how might we get what question do we need to ask to actually get us over the hump of asking for the monetary value of Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Well, I think that's a very, very good question. the whole conversation, the whole forty minutes I think can be talked about that. I'm sure I will carry it forward. Katherine Lord: Please do report back. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: and ask that and we getting closer to the end of this conversation, even though I believe we could talk for another forty minutes on and on, I would like to ask you what is your one favorite thing about coachig? Katherine Lord: Let's see, my favorite thing about coaching. is that it's twofold. I'm gonna use a like semicolon. Questions lead to connection. That's what I hope. Number one. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Mm-hmm. Katherine Lord: And what I'm after is connection in life. Being in relationship with others, getting to know people deeply, side note, and I just I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge this. I just spent two days with a friend of my sister's who's his name is Sam Wells, the Reverend Sam Wells, he's a world-renowned theologian and author. And while his perspective is From a Christian lens of being with, he talks about that. That's sort of like the whole thing, either from a Christian standpoint or otherwise, just like being with people, being with, being in relationship. That's the that's the deal. And it and it resonated so much with me because that's that's been essentially what I have sought in in my life is connection with others. And so finding the peace that coaching leads to questions, which leads to connection is like a new trilogy. It's like a new it's like, we just have to ask questions. That's that's the ticket. So that's number one. Questions lead to connection. The second that I love is that simplicity works. When you go through coach school, you learn a conversational arc for a coaching engagement. You establish rapport, the client tells you what they want to work on, you create an experience helping them figure that out. You set some kind of goal, you offer appreciation and move into action. And every school has some flavor of what that conversation looks like. At times the simplest question gets the most profound answer. What is it that you want? No fancy words there. What do you want? Or what are you valuing? How might that? It takes the elitist jargon. sort of out of it. It's like you don't have to come up with the most fluid, beautifully written, dramatic, theatrical, artistic question. Just ask the question clear. And the simplicity actually can draw out the depth of truth that will best serve the client. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: I think that's an excellent answer, sorry. the connection and the way your face la light up when you were talking about the connection and the simplicity of it. And I just wanna before we wrap up, Just put an emphasis on what do you want? Because we've been talking about being a working mother, changing a career, busy household, and any working parent or any working professional, you have you need to do this, you need to do that, you need, you have to, you're responsible, this is due. What do you want is a question. No one really asks you anymore. So it's really powerful to hear that, even when it's from the coach, or to remember to ask that yourself and then shut up the internal critic who says no one cares what you want. Buckle up, buttercup Yeah. Katherine Lord: But you can't want that. Yeah. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Like you wanna sleep? Well good luck, you have a crying child. Katherine Lord: You can want it. Olga Kuvshinova Shahzeidi: Well at least you're allowed to want it, right? thank you so much, Catherine Lord, and that have been the coaching method and see you next time. Katherine Lord: Thank you, Olga.