speaker-0: What is it that you actually want? What feeling do you get to avoid? What feeling do you think you're gonna get from doing that thing? Everything you do or don't do is because of a feeling. What's the story I'm telling myself? Is it true? Is it serving me? And if not, what does the story need to be in order for it to serve me?

speaker-1: Today's guest is Jessica Smarrow. Jessica is a licensed therapist, life and mindset coach, and the host of the Unblocked podcast. Her work focuses on helping people understand the thoughts, emotions, and patterns that keep them from following through on what they know they already want. In our conversation, we talk about why knowing what to do is often not enough to make you do it, and how the feelings you avoid and the stories you tell yourself can shape the actions that you take in your life. We also get practical about how to become more aware of those patterns. And choose thoughts and better practices to help you to create the momentum and move forward. If you get value from this conversation, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. And now please enjoy my conversation with Jessica Smarrow. Jessica, thank you so much for being here.

speaker-0: Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

speaker-1: For sure. Excited for our conversation. So Jessica, one common theme from your work is that you talk about the idea that a lot of people aren't stuck because they need more information. People know what they want and what they need to do, and they still struggle to move and take the actions that they know that they need to take. So why is it that someone can know exactly what they need to do and still not do it?

speaker-0: So two things I would say. One that kind of surprises people where I start is I check in with what is it that you actually want? Cause sometimes if people aren't taking action on something, it's because the goal or the thing that they've said that they want to achieve is actually something that's like social conditioning or societal expectations or something that their father-in-law wants them to do. Right. So sometimes the issue is a desire issue. The other one that surprises people. Is that it tends to be, and I just like I want to hold people's hands when I say what I'm about to say. The other piece is it tends to be an underfeeling issue. Okay. And what I mean by that is if someone knows, like, I know that I want to be going to the gym every morning, but to do that, I have to experience a period of discomfort. It's more comfortable to stay in my warm bed. It's easier to hit snooze, but there's going to be some discomfort to go. Get yourself in the cold and go outside and go for a run or go to the gym. Similarly, when people are like, I know I shouldn't be, you know, face down in a pint of Ben and Jerry's when I'm not even hungry. Again, it's not an overeating issue. It's an underfeeling issue, right? Like what feeling do you get to avoid when you do that thing, right? If you overeat, what what feeling do you think you're gonna get from doing that thing? So those tend to be the thing if you find yourself thinking, I know what to do here. Why am I not doing it? I would invite people to check in with. What's the desire? What is it you actually want? And what feeling do you get to avoid by not doing the thing that you want to be doing?

speaker-1: Mm. Okay. Yeah. Underfeeling is a new idea for me. I'd love to kind of dive into both of those ideas, right? The checking in with what you actually want and making sure you can find or you like you're connected with the desire that you actually want and it's not something that you just picked up from subconscious conditioning. And then the idea of underfeeling. So to start with finding that desire, how can we find what we actually want?

speaker-0: Yeah. So I love to ask a good, you know, it's interesting. I'm a licensed therapist by trade. And when I was a junior baby clinician, they're like, don't ask why. Like that can be very confronting. As a coach, I'm like, we're gonna ask why relentlessly. Right. And so it might be a little confronting, but it helps you kind of excavate. So if you ask, you're like, okay, I want to make, you know, seven figures this month in my business or whatever, right? Why do I want that thing? Like, what do I think having that will give me? And then let you know, like, it will give me financial freedom. Okay, why do you want that? because then I can I can take Fridays off and like pick up my kid from, you know, kindergarten at noon or whatever. and what will having that give me? satisfaction and fulfillment. So when you kind of ask why and what will having that give you, that lets you know, here's the thing that I really want. Here's why it really matters to me, right? Like I want satisfaction and fulfillment. I really want to be able to be a present parent and make a lot of money in my business and have this big success. And the reason that that's important is because then when you're, you know, to your original question, like I know what I what I need to be doing and I'm not doing it. Sometimes that surface level goal isn't compelling enough, right? You're like, we'll work on that revenue goal later. But if you're like, yeah, but the real reason I want this. It's because I want to be a present parent. The really reason I want this is because I want satisfaction and fulfillment that I'm using my time, energy, and talent in ways that matter to me. Now you're like, okay, now we've got the fuel source that's gonna have me actually showing up to my life, that's gonna have me actually showing up, it's gonna have me be like a zealous advocate for my desires when you have a little more juicy fuel for it.

speaker-1: Yeah. And how can we because I've gone through the process of, you know, thinking through setting my goals, right? Really digging into why is that number the number that I want, right? Painting a super clear picture, right? As many of us do at the start of a new year, right? We set our goals, right? We kind of have this whole energy, this jumping into the new year with all this enthusiasm and clarity on what it is that we want. And then pretty quickly that just kind of disappears, right? Like we still have the memory of Going through that process and clarifying and articulating what we want. Like for me, right? Like I have a very specific number that I've took a couple hours kind of sitting through and really mapping out what I want. But how can we stay there, right? Stay in that enthusiasm, stay in that energy, that desire, right? How can we continuously tap into that fuel source that you called it of chasing our true, true desires?

speaker-0: Yeah. So a couple things I will say on that. The the number like the first thing that I help people with is tapping into the who before the how, right? So when you think like what's the thing like going to the the version of you who has created it, right? And thinking about, okay, that version of me who makes seven figures consistently. Like listen, we're just going for abundance here, friends. All right. We're making seven figures consistently every month. It's fine. Join me in my abundance bubble. Thinking about The version of you who've has already done that, like what is that version of you thinking, feeling, and doing? How does that version of you show up to their goals on a Tuesday? How do they think about the boredom or the ambivalence that comes up? Right? How do they think about the discomfort? If you presented the thing that you were like navigating today, where you're like, it was exciting on January 1, but now it's like February 23rd, and I'm like, blah, blah, blah, I'd rather go play with my dog. Right. If you presented that problem to your seven figure earner, like how is that version of you gonna approach that? Like what are they thinking? What thoughts do they have about it? Like how do they feel towards that? Like what actions are they taking? And a lot of people are like, this is like made up stuff. I don't know. But here's it's like some I tell like, test my test my math, right? Like try it. And I promise you that there's going to be some wisdom that you're gonna glean from that. And if not, then You got you're like, let's just suss out the blocks. Like, what is the thing that's blocking me from accessing that version? Because here's what I like to think. We're gonna get a little, we're gonna like wax poetic for a moment. Like I like to think if you have a goal or an idea, I I think of it like a seed, right? It's like like an acorn seed has everything it needs in order, all the ingredients, all the makings, everything it needs to become an oak tree. So I like to think of if you have a desire or an idea or something you to create. You have that seed, which means you have everything that you need to create that, which that might mean, you know, I I have all of the commitment and determination and tenacity and perseverance. I have all of the willingness to fall on my face and keep taking belief fueled learning fueled action. I have a willingness to ask people for help when I need it. I have a willingness to continue to keep the eye on the North Star even when things get hard. Whatever it is, you have that in you. And if you're not accessing it. Right. That means you're just not tapped into the part of you who is the version of you who's gonna create it. Right. And this is where I get like really geeked out about goals, because goals can seem sort of like sterile and boring, honestly. But what I think is super exciting about it is it's the who you become in the process. Right. So when it's again, it's a it's a February 23rd and you're like bored about it, you're like, yeah, but what am I gonna get to know about myself that I don't yet know? What's like some dormant? part of me that's like tucked away in my armpit, like some part of me, some skill, some talent, some idea, some gear that I have in me that doesn't get explored, it doesn't get used, it doesn't get expressed. And l except for when I'm going after this thing or until I create this thing. And then it starts to get a little exciting. So I'll stop there before listen, I'll just talk for days about that. But yeah, I'll just pause there to see

speaker-1: I love it. Yeah, just staying excited and enthusiastic about the process of striving, right? And going towards and becoming that version, the who. I like how you called it the who before the how, right? Becoming that version of you that is a capable and is accomplishing the things that you want to accomplish. I like that. So then obviously you can do that once, right? You can kind of paint this picture, you can im imagine the version of yourself that is accomplishing whatever it is that you want to accomplish. But then is there some kind of daily practice that you encourage to continue to step into that? Right. Again, like, you know, anybody that's listening to this that has read all of the personal development self-help books, right? There's the idea of visualization, positive affirmations. Is it is it that or is there anything more to it?

speaker-0: Yeah. Okay. I love this question. So, okay, listen, sometimes I say this and my clients are like, what do you mean? Here's what I'm saying. I'm not a huge fan of like affirmations, but here's what I mean by that is that a lot what I teach when we are like learning to believe something new or we're like tapping into our future self is I use a tool called the thought ladder. And this is like actual neuroscience, cognitive behavioral-based stuff. Affirmations are like, imagine if you're if you're like at the bottom of a of a ladder and you're like, I am wildly incapable and you're like, I'm totally capable, or I hate my body to I love my body. Right? Like if you're on a ladder, you're like at the bottom rung. Eight, you're trying to grab for something 18 feet up in the air. So when you're saying these affirmations, your brain is just discounting them as nonsense. Okay. And so this is, you know, I just said I mentioned feelings a moment ago. And this is, I get it, like high achievement folks, ambitious folks are like, we don't have time for feelings. I promise you you do, because. They're the fuel in the gas tank of your life. Like everything you do or don't do is because of a feeling. So when you're trying on a new thought or you're like trying to build belief in something, you have to actually try it on like an outfit. Like, like, you know, you see an outfit on the rack and you're like, that's cute. And you put it on, you're like, absolutely not. So if you think like, I am a capable business owner and you think that thought and you're like, I feel absolutely nothing in my body, that means it's not believable. Right. So then you gotta go down the rung of the ladder and you're like, Okay, the thing that I want to do, I want to have a seven-figure month. Is that have other humans done that in the world? Yes. Like we are not building a ladder to Mars. Okay. I mean, listen, although that might not be so far off in the future, but at this point, right? But you're like, this is something that is humanly possible. Okay, I happen to be a human. Yes. Yes. Okay. So if I happen to be a human, other people are humans, and this is something that is possible for a human, is it possible that it's possible for me? And you're like, yeah. And like even saying that right now, like I feel a little effervescence in my chest. Then you're like, okay, now we have some of that fuel, right? Like, okay, it's possible that I am capable of doing this thing because I'm a human and humans can do these things. And since I'm a human, maybe I can do this. Okay, got it. And that's where you want to hang out for a while. Like, okay, I'm a human. It is possible for me. If that feels better or less terrible than the original thought, like. That's where you want to start taking action from. Okay, from that place, if it is possible for me, then what are 15 ways I would go after it? And that 15 might be a lot, and you're like, my gosh. But I promise you, by the time you get to like 14, you're like, here's an actual good idea I might go take action on. Okay. And that's like the rinse and repeat because our human operating system is thoughts create our emotions, our emotions drive our actions. So if you're looking for what's the daily practice, it's Okay, can I get into the thought world? Can I get into the belief of what I'm trying to do? Can I think like the version of me who has created it? Can that actually generate a vibration in my body? That's what an emotion is. Can it vibrate that can it create that vibration in my body that has me taking consistent action? Okay. And sometimes here's what I say: like so many people come to me and they're like, I want to feel confident and excited, enthusiastic. And motivated, that's when it comes up. And I'm like, those are sometimes, first of all, motivation is like a sprinter, right? It's not a marathon runner, right? Sometimes the fuel that's gonna get you there is like a little grittier, right? It's determination, it's perseverance, it's tenacity. So these are some of the daily practices as you're exploring what are those feelings that actually have me taking consistent action towards the thing that I want. And listen, we could talk about actions, but I'm gonna pause there before I can, you know. I'm gonna give you like a whole TED talk here, Ian, so I'll just go ahead and pause.

speaker-1: That's what exactly what we're looking for. So it seems like that mechanism, right? Kind of the ability to control our thoughts might be this a s little bit of a strong word there, but the ability to be aware of the thoughts that we're having, which are driving our emotions, which then lead to our actions, right? So it's able to kind of take a couple steps back and not just looking at the actions that we're taking, but what are the thoughts that are creating the emotions which are creating these actions? So like that ability. is kind of the core ability that we need to ha have on a day to day basis to kind of fuel the pursuit of our goals of whatever it is that we want. Right. And I would imagine so like I guess how can we build that muscle of being able to become aware of the thoughts that we're having or look at the actions that are taking place in our lives and investigate a little bit further to identify the thoughts that are creating those emotions that are creating those actions. So tough question. I don't I don't think I phrased that very well, but

speaker-0: Listen, no, it's not I have the exact thing for you, Ian. Actually, this is such an easy question. And first of all, I would say you're like, control might be a strong word. There are so many things in life that we cannot control. Our thoughts, we can. But here's how I would qualify that. So our I like to call our brains thought generating machines. Yeah. Like science will tell us there's something like 60,000 to 80,000 thoughts a day that our brains produce. And you could tell by the rate at which I talk, mine is probably 120, right? They come fast and hard. Okay. So our brains are generating a lot of thoughts. We might not be able to control the like all of the thoughts our brains generate, but we absolutely can control the ones we anchor into and hold on to. Okay. So one of the tools that I offer up, and I talk about this in my book, but also I have a freebie and unblocked journal on my website, on my socials that walks you through this. So I call it a thought download. Okay. And this is like super unsexy and unsophisticated. A thought download is you're gonna set a timer and you can start small in the beginning, set yourself up for success. But maybe you set a timer for five minutes. And during that time, you are just going to free write unedited. You're not picking up your pen. You're not worried about grammar. You're not crossing things out and starting over again. You are just eavesdropping on your brain. And in the book and in the unblocked journal, I put I give some prompts, right? That's like, what do I think about this? Why haven't I created it yet? What am I telling myself about myself? What am I telling myself about the other people involved in this? What am I, right? You're just like, just hear it all out. That's how you start to create the awareness. And listen, if you're the, if you're like, I have never thought about my thinking a day in my life, this is where grace and little self-compassion comes in. You're like, yeah, I'm gonna be a beginner. I might kind of suck at this. And like my brain's gonna be like, I don't have any thoughts. I don't know what you're talking about. Write that down. That's great too. Okay. Like that's start where you are. And then so you're gonna do a thought download, you're gonna set your timer five minutes when you're gonna you're not picking up your pin until that timer goes off. And then you're gonna look at that and you're gonna take one of the thoughts, like which one feels like stickiest or most activating or juiciest. And then you're gonna take that and you're gonna plug it into the steer model. Okay. So this is the tool that I use because I love I love an acronym. If you follow me or you read my book, you're gonna be like, holy cow, the number of acronyms, they make me happy. Okay. And they're easy to remember. And I like the idea of kind of kind of steering your brain. So steer stands for situation, thought, emotion, action, results. So situation are those are like the neutral events that happen in life, right? Like your spouse took out the trash and didn't put a trash liner back in, totally neutral. Your boss says words, that your client said no. It's 114 degrees in the shade, right? Like these are just the the president is whoever the president is. These are neutral things that are happening. And that that in and of itself can be like, you know, mind blowing for some people. But that's totally neutral until you have a thought about it. Okay. So you're gonna take your thought download, you're gonna pick one of the thoughts, you're gonna put that in the T line, the thought line of the model. And you're gonna be like, okay, what are the facts that I'm having this thought about? So you can get this situation. When I think that thought, what is the one word emotion that I feel? If you try to put a sentence in the emotion line, it's another thought, friends. Okay. You can also, I got a feelings wheel, I'll send you like I'll give you all kinds of free things. So here's your thought. What's the emotion that that thought creates? And when I think and feel those things, what do I do? What do I not do? What is my cognitive behavior? Right. So all of my actions, inactions, and reactions. And then when you look at that, you can see, yeah, what result do I create from doing that? Right. So when you're like, okay, how do I bring awareness to my thoughts? Thought downloads. How can I see what the impact of those thoughts are? You're gonna run a steer model. And I encourage people in the beginning, everyday friends, do this for a while. Thought download, do what I call an unintentional steer model, and then do an intentional one. Same situation, one different sentence in your brain, one other thought. If I believe that thought, how would I feel? And if I thought and felt that way, what would I do? And if I did that, what would I stop doing? What would I start doing? What would be the results that I could create? You can also reverse engineer the steer model. What's the result I'm going after? What do I need to do to get there? How do I need to think and feel to get there? So you can play with that on all and all sorts.

speaker-1: direction. That is a sign of a great framework, the ability to kind of go both directions through it, right? Kind of be able to reverse engineer the results that you ultimately want to create and then work it back through the framework. So yeah, we'll have the links to everything in the description to your website to that freebie download that you talked about, your s your social media account. So people can find that easily. So just write in the description, go check that out. So it sounds like this practice that you've created of the thought download and then plugging that into the steer model. is one way that we can kind of intentionally create this practice of like exercising this muscle of becoming aware of the thoughts that we're having and the impact that it's having and the results that it's creating in our life. So then that awareness, like building the muscle of awareness, and awareness both of the thoughts that we're having and then also the implications that those thoughts are creating in our life is going to twofold. One equip us with the ability to just be aware of the thoughts that we're experiencing, the emotions that we're having on a day-to-day basis, like throughout the day. And then also second, it's going to create the awareness of how impactful those thoughts and emotions are, which will then kind of hit us in the face and be like, okay, this is where we got to start. This is what we got to change.

speaker-0: Or if you're like, why am I not doing like I you say I I want to stop gossiping? And then you're at the water cooler talking about Gary and accounting, and you're like, why am I doing this thing that I said I want to stop doing? Well, you put the action in the A line of the model, and then you're like, okay, how was I feeling? I was feeling like a little bit insecure. And the thought was, I want to fit in, right? Or I mean whatever, right? Like you're whatever your brain actually offers up, right? So you can see. And then also if you're like, I've been working on this goal, why have I still not created it? Okay, well, let me see what's happening in the action line of my model. I take one action and it doesn't turn out the way that I want, and then I quit. Okay. Like, well, why am I doing that? Right. Like, because my worth and my value is contingent on this, or I have stories about failure. I take one action and I'm calling that failure. Right. So there's just so much you can glean from this. If you're like, yeah, why am I doing something I don't want to do? Why am I not doing something I want to do? Why don't I have the the results that I want? You're gonna go upstream and see what it is. Like This is the value of like I call it causal coaching. Like I'm not when you come to me, I'm not just going to give you A-line strategies. Like, here's some actions that you're going to take. I'm going to show you the operating system so that you can take whatever the actions are that are required. And you're like, this this model will help me see exactly to your point. Like it brings the awareness not just to your thoughts and feelings, but yeah, how do I show up when I'm doing that? Like, am I getting the results? And if not, I know the levers that I can start tweaking.

speaker-1: Mm. wonderful. Well we all know Gary in accounting sucks, so talking bad about him doesn't doesn't mean anything to us.

speaker-0: Yeah. F that guy. Yeah. Right. You might like your reason. That's the other thing, right? Is like when you do this, this isn't just about creating awareness of the things where you're falling short, right? Like this also helps you see, yeah, I actually really like my reasons for talking about Gary and accounting, right? Like you might be like, yeah, he needs to be called out. Or when you're like, I really am winning in this area, or this thing really worked. Okay, how do I keep doing that? Like we know for success, one of the first things we want to look at is. Well, what are your winning results? What are your winning strategies? What things are working? And so you also want to bring awareness to that model. When I think this thing and I feel this thing, then I do this thing. This is the result it creates. This is an awareness tool that also helps you see what's the thing that's gonna get me there too, not just what's kind of standing in my way.

speaker-1: Nice. Okay. Yeah. So when you identify those things that do work for you, those winning strategies, you then I would imagine attempt to cultivate moments in the day where you can kind of invoke those emotions or invoke those thoughts, invoke those feelings. Is that an idea then too? Like are there ways then that you can invoke specific thoughts or emotions?

speaker-0: Well, listen, I gave you my disclaimer about how much I love acronyms. So I call these PDTs because the the title is terrible. I need to come up with a better one. That's a thought. Thoughts aren't facts, but my story is it sounds terrible. But I call them purposefully derived thoughts. And so yeah, when you are practicing this new thought, like so it's a couple different things. One is when you're running your model and you're like, I tried on that thought and it actually feels good, then like, I want to repeat it because from neuroplasticity, we know that repetition Is what starts to reinforce it. Also, you want to look for evidence of how it's true, right? So if you're like, I'm a human who is capable of doing these things, yeah. Then our thoughts and our questions are like directives to our brains. Like, I'm a human who's capable of doing things. Let me look throughout the day and pay attention, right? Like tell you, like test your brain will give you eviden evidence of what you tell it to look for. So you're like, go look for ways I am capable of doing these things. And you're like, okay, that starts to fuel some of that. Now Where the PDTs come in, the purposefully derived thoughts, kind of a mouthful, hence the PDT, is when you're trying to access it, cultivate it, exercise the muscle of I sometimes I like to think that as if there were like two halves of our brain. I mean, there are two halves of our brain, but as if there was like a place in our brain that was filled with like on this side, this is with all of the information you do have. Here's everything you do know. Here's where you are a yes to these this thing. Here's where you have full belief. And then there's this other part of your brain that's like, nah, dog, this is where we are in fear all the time. We're a no to everything. We don't know anything. And we don't believe anything is possible. So the PDTs are it's a skill that helps you stay in this side of your brain. Right. So this is where you're asking yourself questions, like, okay, well, where am I on board with this? Where do I believe this like to be true? What do I know when our brains are like, I don't know. Anytime we're doing something, I don't know. That's what my brain's like has a whole toddler fit. I don't know. I don't know anything. But what do I know? So that's another one of those practices where you're actively getting yourself into the mindset. You're you're like that, you're training your brain, hey, I want to hang out in the part of my brain where I have belief in the thing that I'm doing, where I have belief in myself, where I am capable, where I do know things. And like you're just like constantly, you know, directing yourself back there. So that's a lot, right? If you're listening and you're like, holy cow, we just drank from a fire hydrant, you did. But like your your audience is probably wildly capable, so they probably got all of them.

speaker-1: Yep, and we'll probably, including myself, for wind that back and listen to it a few times. and I hope I can be the the muse to unpack it a little bit further as the role as the the host here. But I think one thing that came to my mind when we talked about the idea of, you know, starting to intentionally think those thoughts of I am capable. Again, and like you can say that and obviously like I I mean I a hundred percent believe that any human is capable of literally anything, and I would imagine that an anybody would agree. But I think when as soon as you apply it then to yourself, like it's easy to think those things, think those thoughts about other people. It's like any individual is capable of anything. But then if I look at myself and I start to step in and start asking or saying these things, it can maybe feel a little bit uncomfortable, which might be going back to the idea that I would love to dive into, which is sussing out those blocks. But it's like if I step into that idea of like I am capable, right? The ideas of, you know, imposter syndrome and just, you know, it can feel uncomfortable. Right. And it's like, I don't know if I do believe that about myself. So is that tying back into the idea of sussing out the blocks that we have of being able to think those things about ourselves? Or is that a different direction?

speaker-0: Yeah. So one of the first steps in the freedom formula, I like to call it, is see the blocks, right? And that's what so I mean the title of my podcast is unblocked, right? It's like all about bringing awareness to the blocks that stand in the way. And so even before you ask that question, that's where my brain was going, is that when you present a thought to yourself and you notice some pushback, you want to get curious, right? Like I'm capable and you're like, other people can be, but I'm not. That's where, like, get curious. Why? Why, why is it that somebody else would be capable of this and I'm not? And that helps you see what's the story I'm telling myself. That helps you see the limiting beliefs. And that's great because that gives you direction. That lets you know, here's one of the things I need to work on as part of my intentional strategy to go towards the goal that I want. One of the things I'm gonna have to actually work on is this limiting belief. And I have to practice unbelieving it and learning to believe in new thoughts. So the mechanism of that is, okay, so you're like, I'm capable. And your body's like, absolutely not. That's not true. Like, okay, what is it that I think? No, there's something inherently wrong with me. I'm not as good as other people. I'm not smart enough. I don't have the right degree. I don't have the right parents. I don't have the right background. If I was capable of this, I would have done it by now. Purt at all. Okay. Mostly from myself, right? But other people like wildly successful people, their brains offer this up too. So one of the first things that I would invite you to to sit with is. Those are just thoughts and thoughts are not facts. If there was a mantra I would want people to carry around with him, it would be that. Like that's a thought, and thoughts are not facts. So when you see this litany of limiting beliefs, all of the reasons that you don't think you're capable, this is also like where your thought, that's essentially thought download. Like this is all the reasons I don't think that I'm capable. And you can look at those and see those are just sentences in your brain. Your brain has 80, 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day. You're like, that's one sentence my brain has. And the fun thing is to know and to remind yourself is it's possible that because I have 80,000 thoughts, there's possible that there's another thought my brain's gonna offer up that is different than that. And this is what's really cool when you're like, I'm not capable for all these reasons. As soon as you start writing it down, you're gonna hear another voice in your head that's probably like, yeah, but that one time, but mm-hmm, okay, that's not quite true, right? Okay, you're just hearing the all those 80,000 thoughts come through. So that's why it's so important to do it because we'll stop at the first ones that come through, the most habituated, right? Because our brains love a good habit track. So you're gonna hear those first. But if you keep listening, you're gonna hear what's underneath it. But if you don't, and you're like, I just have a bunch of hot dumpster fire thoughts about myself and why I'm not capable, you're gonna remind yourself those are thoughts and thoughts are not facts. Right. And so And then there's a lot of different things that you could do. There's a lot of different directions you can go here. One of them is which if you take that thought and you see, well, how do I feel when I think that thought? And then you see, what what do I do? What results do I create? So you can see, does that thought serve me? If the answer is no, even if you think the thought is true, if the answer is no, it's not serving me, well, because it's a thought and thoughts are not facts, they're optional. I can choose again. So this is where like the self-leadership and self-supervision comes in, and you're like, okay. I am looking at that and I see I'm thinking a terrible thought. It doesn't serve me. I might think it's true, but even if it's true, it doesn't serve me. And it's an optional thing. I'm just choosing to pick up. Why am I doing that? How what is the upside of doing that? Right. And who would I get to become if I stopped, if I set that thought down, if I gave myself permission to believe something new? Who would I become? What could be what could be different for my life? What could happen there?

speaker-1: Yeah. That's good. I think as you were explaining that idea, it tied back to exactly what you opened it opened with, which is like, okay, why can we know what we need to do and not and still not do it? Talked about tapping into the who before figuring out the how. And I think it's just now hitting me that in every session that I've had of like laying out the goals that I have for my business or for myself, I've only focused on the how. That's the only thing that I've taken into consideration. I completely neglected the person in the process, which is myself or the people on our team of like, who do I need to become in order to achieve that? Which is something that I've heard before. But I think in our 30 minutes of talking so far, we've gotten really specific on what that actually sounds like. And one of the core mechanisms of transforming the who in that process of achieving the how you're going to get to whatever it is that you want to accomplish is Building this mechanism of self-awareness and the ability to be aware of these thoughts that you're having. And like I'm sure you could explain it a lot more eloquently, but the idea of like it almost seems like every goal set or pursuit of goals should involve some transformation of your ability, of how you see yourself, how you think about yourself, how you think about the things that you're doing. Like the whole thought The whole domain of thoughts and the thoughts that you're having seems to be like a critical piece in in any goal set, right? Like that's something that needs to be taken into consideration.

speaker-0: Right, because your thoughts drive your act your emotions which drive your actions to create your results. Right. Like that's and why I call it like supervising and directing your brain. Like that's what you're really talking about. Because listen, our brain, unsuper, it's like a toddler with a knife. That's how I tell people like you've got this really powerful machine, but it is like a toddler with a knife. You want to supervise it. And to your point about like overfocusing on the action line. And listen, again, I work I tend to work with like high performing, high achieving people. We love a good A line. Like the name of my Facebook group is do the thing. I love a good action. Okay. I'm here with you. I'm right in the pool. But here's the analogy I like to use. If you think about the model and you, I want to think about the action line of the model like a fire truck. And your thoughts and emotions are the people that you put in your fire truck. So imagine you've got this state-of-the-art fire truck and you put kindergartners in it and you send that fire truck with the kindergartners in it to a fire. You're going to get a result. Okay. But now imagine you have that same state-of-the-art fire truck and you put trained firefighters in it, you're going to get a very different result. Right. So again, if we're only thinking about the action and you're like, why isn't this working? Well, who are the people I'm putting in my actions? If I'm if the the belief I'm carrying on is like I'm not capable, this is never gonna happen, but I'm like going through the motions, that's probably gonna create one result. But if you're taking belief-fueled action and you're like thinking about your why and you're thinking about the value of what it's gonna bring and thinking about what's possible on the other side of it, and you're taking action from there, you're gonna get a very different result. You mentioned imposter syndrome and it just It's one of the things that hurts all my feelings, okay? Because imposter syndrome continues to be ranked as one of the top barriers for high achievers. It's a barrier that exists between our two ears because imposter syndrome or imposter phenomenon is defined as persistent self-doubt despite evident success. Okay. So what that means is it's a mindset issue, right? You're like, despite Success and evidence of capability and having done things, my brain is to like, you're a fraud. You're gonna that was a fluke. You're gonna be found out. You don't belong here. Again, that's another one of those bring awareness and redirect your brain. Cause your brain can be focused on, yeah, but there's so many other people who are so much better than I am at this. Right. And then what do you miss? All of the stuff that you're capable of, right? It's like the book, The Gap and the Gain, right? Like you can always be focused on the distance between where you are and where you want to be. Versus where you are and where you've come. You could always be focused on how much more you could grow and how many other people are better than you, but you're totally gonna miss that, yeah, Jane might be better at this thing than you, but that doesn't mean that your version is no value. Right? It's also possible that somebody could be better at it than you and you are still the most qualified and the best person for this particular thing for these particular people. So just to kind of like underline what you were saying, so much of this is a mindset thing. Right. And it and it's stuff that we make a big deal. And the other thing I want to say about imposter syndrome, because if any of you listening have her have experienced this, us included, I just want you to like give yourself a round of applause. I want to say congratulations. Because if you have experienced imposter syndrome, it means you're doing really cool stuff. It means you're experiencing success. It means you're not being complacent in your life. You can't experience imposter syndrome when you're laying on your couch watching Netflix and eating cheese cheez-its. So That would be my reframe for for imposter sick.

speaker-1: Yeah, and that cut pretty deep where it's like despite success, it's just like it doesn't stick, right? Despite people saying great things about the things that you do for them, it's like, Yeah, okay, but they just don't see it. They don't see what I see, right? They don't know, they haven't found me out yet, right? But eventually they will find me out.

speaker-0: If they only could see like the wizard of walls, if they could only see the man behind the curtain, right? Then I'd really be found out. But think about that. What's the consequence of that? When you think like, my gosh, if they just saw behind the curtain, if they really knew, then I would be found out, I'd be defraud. Like, what is the consequence of that thought, of that belief system?

speaker-1: I mean it's preventing me from doing like doing even more, doing better, right? It just gets in the way of me having the energy, the enthusiasm of like the which I've had in moments of like my mind is just always churning and running on new ideas and coming in with these new things and like doing my best and like doing better. So like that thought definitely gets in the way of me providing a higher quality service or a higher quality product. Which is that's where my

speaker-0: What a freaking tragedy.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: Right? Like what a tragedy. Like, think about like that's one of the questions I ask people specifically when I'm talking about imposter syndrome is what are you missing out on? What are your people missing out on? What is your community, your family, the world missing out on when you let imposter syndrome, the voice of the imposter syndrome, get in the way? So much. And I just think, and ultimately, I'll get like existential here is like, so what you miss out on is you, right? And I just think. The an unexpressed human is one of life's greatest tragedies, right? You're like, yeah, we miss out on the full expression of Ian. Like, what a freaking tragedy.

speaker-1: Right. Yeah, thank you for that. Going back to the idea of and this might be a kind of a tough question, but how do you find the nuance or the balance between the idea of okay, you can look at these thoughts that you're having, right? Like maybe imposter syndrome, these negative, these thoughts that don't serve you, and then you have this realization that, hey, thoughts aren't facts, right? These aren't real. But then you replace them with a new, more positive thought. How do you not have that same reaction? It's like, Well, that thought's not a fact either. So like that like ha ha ha how do you respond to that idea

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. So this is why I like to anchor it into this deer model. So, four questions I like to ask people. What's the story I'm telling myself? Is it true? Is it serving me? And if not, what does the story need to be in order for it to serve me? Okay. So you're like, yeah, this new stuff, it's just a made-up story. It's also not a fact. But does it serve me? Right? Do I feel better? Do I show up more aligned in integrity with myself, with my goals? Do I create the results that I want? Right. So yeah, it might not be a fact, but you're like, is it, is it the fuel that I need to get? You're like, yeah, I can put bubbles in my car. It's not gonna get me very far. But if I'm putting gas in there, it's gonna get me where I want to go. And so you're like, yeah, like we can get caught up. Like and that's what a lot of people will say to me, like when we talk about thought work and believing new things, and they're like, I don't wanna gaslight myself. I don't wanna well, I don't wanna brainwash myself. And I'm like, Yeah, but the thing is you're doing it all the time. It's just usually the harsh inner critic. Right. It's usually the negative self-talk that negativity bias wins out. So it's like, yes, on some level, that's what people get scared. They're like, I what if I let myself believe that I'm capable? Yeah, what if? Right? Like the what if boogie monster comes. And that's the thing. So often, like we'll our brain offers the question and we're like, yeah, what if? I'm like, no, answer it. Right? Answer the question. Like, What if I let myself believe that I was capable beyond my wild wildest dreams? You're like, I don't know, but it sounds pretty exciting. If I believed that, I would do bigger things. I would take bigger risks. I would ask for what I want. I would not stop at the first no. I would be relentless in my pursuit of my highest self, of my biggest dreams. And you're like, that doesn't sound so bad, right? You're like, okay. I mean, that's the consequence of letting myself believe something, right? And then here's what's fun is like, then you go prove the thought true. Instead of proving the limiting belief true, you go out and gather evidence to prove the new thought that is not a fact, but you go out and you prove it true. Because the result is always going to be evidence of the thought. And if you're like, what if I am capable? What if I was made for things? Like somebody said to me the other day, she's like, I just feel like my whole life, I do actually guide. She's like secretly, she's like, I do kind of believe, like I said, like a gold star over my head. Like I really am meant for more, like I'm just sitting on this treasure treasure chest that I'm not using. Like, yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, what happens when you go out and live from that place? Like you're gonna do really cool stuff. It's gonna feel really good. Right. So you're like, if that's the consequence of believing something that might not be true, then then this is where you make decisions. You're like, am I willing to take that risk? Make

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: the decision. And then while we're talking about decisions, then you also get to decide because we are engaging in self leadership and self awareness. You're gonna decide how am I gonna have my back on the other side of that? Right. If you're like, my gosh, I could let myself believe that I'm capable. And what if I fall on my face? Okay, great. How am I gonna have my back in making that decision? Well, the two little prompts I like to give are I'm so proud of myself for or I'm so grateful that. Like, man, I'm so proud of myself. for going after it and living into my stretch zone and not staying in my comfort zone. I'm so grateful to the version of me who was willing to go for it and do hard things and feel uncomfortable things just to give us the chance to have what we want. Right. And then you're like, okay, I missed the mark, but like, I'm kind of a badass.

speaker-1: Right. Yeah. So at the end of the day, no thoughts are going to be facts, right? But you might as well choose the thoughts that are going to serve you that are going to serve as the best fuel, helping you to create a life and go get the things that you've taken the time to think through and say that you want. So no thoughts are going to be factual, right? You can have the negative thoughts or you can have the positive thoughts, not to use like too buzzy of words, right? And again, you could probably explain it a lot more clearly. I'm just trying to kind of repeat it back to you. No thoughts are facts. You can have the negative thoughts that are just gonna continue to bury you and weigh you down and just be just like put a cloud through everyday life, or you can have the positive thoughts, again, which aren't factual, but neither side of the spectrum is gonna be facts. But those more positive thoughts that serve you are going to help you to create the life that you say that you want. So you might as well choose those thoughts, right? And just kind of getting over my

speaker-0: It's an option. I'm never here to tell people right how to live their life. It's just an option. And so you're just like, here are the two options, right? Like you could take take things, you can think things that feel terrible, but they feel practical, they feel responsible, they feel true, right? Right. Like it feels like this is the so many people like to hedge their bets, right? And they're like, I would rather think something really negative so that I don't end up being disappointed. That's an option. Like, go forth. Like you can totally live your life that way. It's also an option. To choose again. Yeah. And I would just say I would like caveat asterisks like no thoughts or facts. I mean, listen, if you're like the sky is blue, that if that's the thought I'm carrying, like there might be, you I mean you like might you might choose to to think factual things. Like, so I just want to kind of clarify. But yeah, if you're if your brain is pushing back, like, but it's not a fact that I'm not capable. Yeah, your options are, right? Okay, I can see what that thought creates in my life. Yeah. Do I wanna keep thinking it? You're the boss of your life, right? Do I wanna keep thinking it? Yeah. And it's also an option if you want to choose. To believe something new that might be more useful.

speaker-1: Right. Yeah. And I think it's when we say thoughts, we're talking about, you know, thoughts about yourself or interpretations of events, right? You talked about the idea that event itself is neutral. It's our interpretation of that event which creates our reaction to it that affects us. so it's a thoughts about ourselves are our interpretations about things and events that happens in our day to day life. When we say thoughts, that's what we mean, not like actual facts. So okay. my final question for you before we get to like my podcast themey question. is this idea around fear, right? You talked about the idea that, you know, and I'm sitting next to this book, this book, A Return to Love by Marion Williamson. I'm not sure if you've read it, but I'm a big fan. I picked it up for the first time earlier this year. It's pretty mind blowing. But on the back, there's this iconic quote from the book, and it's this idea that our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. Why would we be scared of the idea that we're powerful beyond measure?

speaker-0: Yeah. my God. I'm so like you gave me goosebumps. Listen, I for the last 10 years, every morning before the day starts, I have gotten on a call with I call it my spirit call, and we read A Course in Miracles, which is what we're trying to like, Marion Williamson is all about. So love me some Marion Williamson. I use that quote often. But like, yeah, that's the thing is that so often this is why I coach a lot of people on success intolerance. Like so often What we're really afraid of is the vastness of what we are. And like, why is that scary? Because in this limited version of ourselves, what's familiar is limitation. And that's the thing about our brains is like, this is why I geek out on neuroscience, is because our brains clock familiar as safe. And those are not the same thing. Right. But it's like, this is again our brains still think it's 750 BC. And it's like, familiar. Go to this bush and eat those berries. Don't go to that bush and eat those berries. That equals death. Right. So, but what but now you're like, it's just familiar for me to play small. And then your your brain and your nervous system is like, that means safe. So when we step into the great unknown of our potential of Do we think that we came into these life, into these human flesh suits to like follow all the rules and just stay under the radar? I mean, I don't know. I I don't I don't know all the rules of the universe, but like I don't think that's probably why, right? But like that's the familiar and safe. But you're like, if I want to start exploring the uncharted territory, like the bigness of me, like what I'm capable of, that feels scary because it's so here's what I think. It's like, You know, listen to like if we're quoting spiritual text now, you know, somewhere in the Bible it says something about like the peace that passeth understanding. And that's the thing. Like when you try to understand your full capabilities, like I think it's beyond human cognition. That's what she's talking about. It's like, no, you're it's it's actually like the bigness of who we are that we're afraid of because our brains are like, we can't, we can't contain that. We can't wrap our brain around it. So I don't know if that was useful. I feel like I just went down a rabbit hole. So I don't know if you if you gleaned anything out of that or if that even answered your question. But that's what comes up for me when I think of Marian's quote. And honestly, my brain doesn't offer up the question, like, why is it scary? What I cut become present to is that when I read that quote, what I notice in my body is something gets excited and expansive. So sometimes, like I like to say, it's really important to ask high-quality questions. So it might so maybe it's useful to understand like why are we afraid of it? But what might be more useful is how do I feel when I hear that? When I hear that actually what I'm afraid of is my light, not my darkness. When I think that that I'm powerful beyond measure, how does it feel when I hear that thought?

speaker-1: Yeah. And me personally, like I recognize that latter point of powerful beyond measure. It's like I instantly can that resonates where it's like, I am. Right, I am. And it's like Yeah. That kinda hits and I feel like that's where that kind of expansion comes from, at least for me internally, when I read that quote and when I read many other parts of that book, is just the resonance of these ideas. Like they feel

speaker-0: So can I just can permission to just like a smidge of coaching? I usually don't do non-consensual coaching. So this will be like coaching. Yeah. So just to illustrate some of the stuff that we've been talking about. So when you think that thought I'm powerful beyond measure and you're like, that resonated, that's what I call an activated belief. Right. So you're like, that generated a vibration in my body. That means that's a believable thought. So now part of your work, your daily practice is write that thought down somewhere. That you can see on a daily basis, I'm powerful beyond measure, right? Allow yourself to feel that thing in your body and take action from there. And also direct your brain to look for evidence of how you're powerful, powerful beyond measure. Right. When you're like, holy crap, I just created this product that did not exist in the world. Like sometimes I think about that, like, you know, I wrote a book or like when I even when I record a podcast episode, I'm like, that did not exist in the world before I just recorded that. Like, how cool is that? I am powerful beyond measure, clocking that as evidence. And that's the actual application of this work, right? Yeah. Find a belief that resonates, feels good, write it down, repeat it, look for evidence of how it's true. Rinse and repeat.

speaker-1: You know, we got through three core questions prepared for our conversation today. And we went through the first one and it took us 50 minutes. We'll absolutely have to have you back, Jessica. But I think just to bring the first question back home. So it seems like maybe the way that I'm interpreting this idea of okay, we we can set these goals, we know what we need to do, but we still fall short in f in following through and doing it. And I realize that in the goal sets that I've created for myself, it's only focused on the how. Right. It's only focused on the actual tactical things, the tasks that need to be done to go and accomplish that without taking into consideration the kind of the person that I need to become, the changes that I need to make to myself internally in my thinking mechanism, which then creates those actions or creates the possibility for me to take those actions. It almost feels like then for every goal set, every time that I set goals, right, I need to be thinking about right, what are those beliefs that I need to reinforce and kind of put my mind and my brain to work in recognizing and finding evidence for, right? Every time you brought that up, that point of like, if you give the brain something to find, it will find it. Right. The I keep thinking about the famous clip of, you know, Tony Robbins on Theo Vaughn's podcast where he has him to look around the room and see all the things that are red, or like that whole idea. So it's almost like with the goal set, should we also have like certain beliefs about ourselves? that we need to reinforce and we kind of put our mind to work in finding evidence for that in addition to the tactical hows and things that we need to do. Is that directionally correct?

speaker-0: Yes. Yeah. And the thing I would just punctuate that with is, and it makes the process so much more enjoyable. Right? Cause I work with a lot of people too. It's like, okay, I've done the how, I have the strategy, I go to thing, and I achieve the result. And then you're like, okay, now what? Like that didn't feel the way I thought it was gonna do, it was gonna feel, right? And then most of the high achiever were like, I guess I just need a bigger goal, more money, a bigger house, a hotter wife, a faster car. Okay, do that. And then they start doing it and then they're like, huh. Still didn't okay, it's still not fulfilling, right? And then sometimes it gets really disillusioning and you know overwhelmed when you're like, I did all of those things. Like, why do I still feel dissatisfied, longing, unfulfilled, like empty, right? It's because you didn't bring the who, you didn't become the who along. So yeah, you're like, it certainly makes the whole process more enjoyable, which is why the title of my book is in pursuit. Like how do you actually go after the things like be in progress, be in the sacred mess of the becoming, be in the messy middle of the goal and still be lit up because you're like, it's all of the other stuff that we talked about that's part of it that's like super exciting and not just getting to the finish line. And then when you get to the finish line, you are actually equipped to experience what you thought the finish line was going to feel like. Because you brought the who along so Mm-hmm. Yeah.

speaker-1: Amazing. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for the time. I have one final question for you. It's a recurring question that I ask every guest. But before we get to that, how can people find you?

speaker-0: Yeah, thank you for asking. My website is my name, Jessica Smarrow.com. And I tend to hang out mostly on Facebook and Instagram as also at Jessica Smarrow. Come check me out. That's where you get a lot of info. And I will say, if you're like, okay, I'm trying to try on new beliefs and like how do I do this? Every Tuesday I send out a thought of the week email. So go to my website, sign up for the email, and I'll I give you a a thought that like has come up for me and I kind of share, well, here's how I feel and here's how I show up differently. Try it on for yourself and go find something that's gonna work for you.

speaker-1: Amazing. Yeah, and all the other resources that we talked about in our conversation you can find on Jessica's website, but we'll have everything linked in the description. So go check out her work if anything that we talked about today resonated with you as much as it did with me. So Jessica, thank you for that. my final question for you is Jessica, if you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for ten seconds with like one message to the world, what would it say and why?

speaker-0: Ooh, the first thing that came up, and maybe because I literally have a button sitting here. I don't know if it's backwards. I don't know if you can read it, but is you matter. And and I think and the reason why is because when you think that thought, at least I'll speak from the eye, for so much of my life, I was looking outward to like external authority figures, to like the capital R rule book of What is the thing and how am I supposed to live my life? And I like checked all the boxes and I'm like, I'm gonna be valedictorian, first in my family to go to college, like get nominated person of the year, go to the White House, all those things. And then I was like, why is this unw what is this? This doesn't feel like why does it feel like I'm living in black and white and a half-lived life? And part of the answer is because I wasn't looking here, right? Because the thought wasn't I matter, right? It was like what matters is approval from other people. What matters is winning and accomplishing. And so Life gets for me so much juicier and satisfying and fulfilling when I remember I matter, you matter. And so when we think that thought, then we're gonna look within and see, okay, what is it that I want? What do I wanna create? What are the gifts and talents and all the the the things that I came with? And if I put all those together, like what can I do with that? And so that's what I would put on a billboard.

speaker-1: You matter. Amazing. Jessica, thank you so much for the time.

speaker-0: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Ian.

speaker-1: Thank you for listening. My main takeaway from my conversation with Jessica is that when I know what I need to do and still don't do it, the root of the problem is a lot farther upstream, if you will, than the lack of taking action, right? The action or the lack thereof in itself. Right. The thought that I'm ha having creates a feeling, and then that feeling shapes what I do next, right? So something that I've written in my journal a lot is your beliefs create your thoughts. Your thoughts create your emotions and your emotions create your actions. Right. So the actions are like the lagging indicator of something that starts all the way back in your beliefs. Right. So a lot of this work where something that I struggled with a long for a long time, where it was really hard for me to just follow through and do the things that I know I needed to do. And I just kept beating myself up, beating myself up, beating myself up over the fact that I wasn't taking these right actions. I needed to actually look back and it sounds like super woo woo and ethereal and stuff, but like looking at the beliefs that all of this is founded in, right? Like what were the beliefs that I had and for me, a lot of my beliefs were around the idea that like what I was doing wasn't very valuable, right? Like it didn't like people didn't actually need it. And this is just a completely irrational belief, right? 'Cause I've had dozens of clients tell me that they're, you know, extremely happy and grateful with for the work that I've done for them. So have to work to reshape that belief, which will then create different thoughts, which will create different emotions, which then has led to more productive action for me in my life. So yeah, when you're struggling to do the things that you know that you need to do, don't get hung up on like the action or the lack of action itself. Obviously it's a problem that you want to change things, but you don't change the action really. Like you need to change the the beliefs or the thoughts or the emotions that you're experiencing. So you kind of like work backwards in that equation, if you will. Thank you, Jessica, for that. If you want to get connected with Jessica Smorrow, you can find the links to her website and all of her work in the description of this episode. And if you're an author or a coach and you want to make it easier for your clients to get results and engage with your ideas, I put a free resource in the description that will help you build more execution support into your program without adding more to your plate. Thank you all for listening, and I'll see you in the next one.