speaker-0: The closer we are to embracing the mortality of death, the more we actually live. If something bothers me, will it still matter in the grand scheme of things? Are we consistent in the thing that we're doing? And can we do the thing over time? An amateur does it to get it right. A professional does it so they never get it wrong. And if we see things as a lesson, then we're more likely to lean into discomfort versus if we see it as an obstacle. We're likely to avoid the discomfort.

speaker-1: what do we optimize? What should incentivize us? Like what do we optimize for? Like what are we building for?

speaker-0: I would encourage you to explore that. Where is this coming from? Why is it showing up? What is it leading me from and leading me to?

speaker-1: Today's guest is David Prosper. David is known as the Clarity Guy, and he helps high achievers understand why success can still feel empty and what to do when they know something needs to change. In our conversation, we discuss how to stop measuring life only by achievement, start making decisions around purpose and service, and find inner peace. If you get value from this conversation, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. And now please enjoy my conversation with David Prosper. David, thank you so much for being here.

speaker-0: the honor is mine.

speaker-1: Sweet. So David, a lot of the people that you work with and and speak to are not obviously struggling, right? They have the business, they have the title, the family, the income, the reputation, or whatever version of success they were chasing. So from the outside, it looks like things are working, but internally there's a quieter tension. There's something that just feels off. So why is it that some high achievers get to that point in life where they look successful, but internally they still feel stuck?

speaker-0: Hmm, that's such a great question. I would say the biggest thing, what I've seen, just the patterns, and there's anomalies in the system. But what I've seen the patterns is a lot of high performers and successful individuals, they've chased the position versus develop their purpose. And the biggest difference is chasing the position, you get there and then you realize, hold on, wait, this is not what it's all meant to be or what it will look like. It's like growing up for me. I I grew up in a project in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And I remember going to Burger King all the time because I would see the commercial, the Whoff, the the Whopper. And I would see this Whopper and I was like, man, this is gonna be so amazing. This is gonna be so big. Like, we don't eat a lot where I'm grown where I'm raised. And I would go to Burger King and I would say, I want the Whopper. And I would open a bag and I would see this, this limp burger. and I was like, that's not what I saw on the commercial. So It's the same thing. We we aspire that the position will bring fulfillment rather than focus on what are what is our purpose? What are we created to do in living from that place?

speaker-1: Yeah. What I'm hearing when you when you say that is like we're we're putting the the fulfillment that we're seeking in something outside of ourselves. Right. It's like fulfillment is going to be found in me getting that position or in me making X amount of dollars, right? That's when I'll feel fulfillment. So we seek fulfillment in in things outside of ourselves. And it sounds like what you're saying, fulfillment is a journey of something that you find within you, no matter where you are. Yes.

speaker-0: Yes, yes. A hundred percent. You said that better than I did, so that's clearly why you're the host.

speaker-1: I love it. I've try and just try and like repeat things back just to make sure that I understand it. But yeah, no, I think that's very well said and a really good insight. Like, why do you think that's kind of the the default mode, I guess? Like why why is it that people I mean, I I know that I I'm not perfect in this, like I definitely seek fulfillment. I definitely have this narrative in my mind that, once I achieve that thing, then I'll be happy, or then I'll be at peace, or then I'll feel fulfilled, or then I'll feel, you know, X, Y, and Z. Like once I achieve X, Y, and Z. Like why is that the the common mode that that we all kind of settle in?

speaker-0: Yeah, that's a good one. I I would say we all are striving for significance in one way or the other. And when we're pursuing significance, like I wanna be important, but I don't know what important is, then we get caught in that comparison trap that keeps us in a loop. so and so is doing it, then I have to strive to do that or that one up. And I remember growing up in a time where MySpace was a thing. Now we've moved away and it's social it's Instagram and and TikTok and all that. So we're constantly looking outside of us to say, okay, am I enough compared to so-and-so? So when we're in that social comparison trap of am I enough compared to so-and-so? And we're we often compare our chapter one to somebody's chapter 10 versus who am I becoming in this process versus what am I doing as a result of this?

speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's another good insight, right? Like you're it's a natural human thing to do to like compare ourselves to other people. and like look at where you are in your journey, if you will, right? Looking at your chapter one, your chapter two, and comparing that to somebody else who's on chapter ten of their of their own story. And then I would imagine like just if I'm applying this to myself. I don't know what the right way to say this is, but it's it's not trust necessarily, but it's like an imposter syndrome. I suppose it's like, why would I feel like the answer to these questions that I have or these solutions to my lack of purpose, lack of fulfillment would be found within me? Like, why would I look within me to find the answers to these questions? Like it has to be something that I'm missing, that's that's outside of me that I haven't yet achieved in this social hierarchy. Game that we play, right? There I feel like there's almost something there. It's like the belief in yourself, or like, I don't know. What do you think that is?

speaker-0: That's a good one. So when I hear the imposter syndrome, I I used to wrestle with it. And then I became obsessed. Like, why do people feel this? Why do I feel this? And the imposter syndrome is comparing again the chapter one versus chapter 10. But going further, did I take the proper steps to become the person that I am? And if the answer is no, then it's just like, will somebody be able to? peel the curtain back and look and say, he he cheated, or he cut the line. Or and so when I think of the imposter syndrome, I I think of, because you're saying belief and trust. If somebody exercises every single day for the next 10 years, and then somebody comes off the street and says, hey, you look like you exercised, the person's gonna be like, thank you. Not, no, I don't exercise. No. I've done the work. I've been consistent. I've endured The the pain and I've seen the gain. So when when it comes to confidence or belief is I see it as are we consistent in the thing that we're doing and can we do the thing over time? And that's the thing that separates successful athletes versus unsuccessful athlete. I heard a quote and I'll end with this. I heard a quote that says the difference between a professional athlete and an amateur is an amateur does it to get it right. A professional does it so they never get it wrong. And that is the biggest distinction of how the imposter syndrome is like I've done the fundamentals so long, I can't get it wrong versus I've done it only to get it right.

speaker-1: Yeah. And this reminds me of a conversation that we had on the show yesterday with Laurie Smith. And we talked about the idea of when in athletics or really in any endeavor, right, in the moment of performance, like in for an athlete it'll be, you know, game time. In the moment of game time, it's the it's the training that you fall back on that will enable you to just get out of your own head, stop being so cerebral and just play, right? Just let like the artistic element of play and performance just kind of come through you, come out of you. So you get out of your head and you're just there in the moment, letting your intuition, your the artistic side of performance just kind of take over. And it's just leaning back on the the the work and the training that you've done. And I think that insight of professionals train and practice and rep, get the reps in so they never get it wrong. So in that moment of performance, they don't have to worry about thinking, right? They can just do, they can go act, they can you know, shoot, they can do whatever it is, they can swing, whatever that moment of performance is, you're gonna fall back on the training that you do. And I think your your point about, you know, how can you overcome that imposter syndrome? It reminds me of an idea that Alex Ramosy talks about all the time, which is like outworking your self doubt. Right. Like you have to to overcome the imposter syndrome, you just have to give yourself an overwhelming body of evidence that you can look back on. To say, no, I do deserve this. No, I have earned this. I have done what is needed to do to put myself here, give myself this opportunity, achieve these things. I love it. And going back to this idea of seeking fulfillment in external things, accolades, positions, money, external things versus seeking fulfillment within you. Obviously, everybody's pretty familiar with the idea of seeking fulfillment in external achievements, signals, whatever that is. But me personally, I'm not as familiar with. The process, like what does seeking fulfillment within you in your own journey what does that look like?

speaker-0: Hmm. it looks like cause I played college football and one of the things that I appreciated, even when we were losing games, like the cheerleaders they were always on, they were just like, Let's go, let's

speaker-1: Let's go defense.

speaker-0: defense. And like sometimes we were killing and other times we were sucking. But one of the things I I noticed is the cheerleaders kept on encouraging us to continue to perform at a high level. So fulfillment looks like I believe in us is how often are we celebrating the things that we're really good at? And then fulfillment looks like how often are we using our gifts, talents, and treasures to serve someone else? Because and then seeing the result of that. And then that impact becomes this loop of, okay, I'm creating fulfillment because I'm creating impact. I'm creating fulfillment. And it becomes it it talks back to us. And then The the next thing is what does our self-talk look like? And oftentimes we're the worst critics of ourselves. So we often look at one of my favorite books is The Gain in the Gap by Dan Sullivan. And we often focus on the gap versus the gain. And fulfillment looks like, what's the gain? How much progress have I made up until this point versus what progress I haven't made? So if we start practicing those things, we start. To see more of those things and then we start celebrating those things in us.

speaker-1: Something that I think is worth underlining is something that has come up in the in conversation that I've had here on the show before. But one thing that you mentioned, or at least it sounds the way that I interpreted it, is that fulfillment is something that you find in service of others as opposed to found in successes that you have for yourself, or like these accolades that you find for yourself. Is that directionally correct?

speaker-0: A hundred percent. Let's like it like you're phenomenal at at synthesizing and paraphrasing it to like create these nuggets. So I just wanna highlight and say I see that and I appreciate that.

speaker-1: I love it. Thank you. I'm trying to trying to get better. You know, we got this is episode I think fifty-six now. If we go back, rewind the tape in you know, episode one of this, you can you can notice the the gain that I've made in in fifty or so episodes, conversations in this, but I appreciate it. so how have you seen that in your own experience, I suppose, or maybe in the clients that you've that you've worked with and kind of helped coach through this evolution in finding that fulfillment in the service of others and Noticing and recognizing that the popular definition of success in achievements for yourself can be kind of hollow. Like how does that show up? Like why why do you think that is? Why is fulfillment found in the service of others?

speaker-0: I believe we're created to connect with others. And I believe we're created to serve one another. Then we we get into this realm of what's in it for me. When Facebook first came out, on the top of the feed, it says, What do you want to share? And Tony Robbins talked about the six human needs and contribution being one of them. Like when we have something good, we want to naturally share it with others. So that's where fulfillment comes from. But oftentimes we're just like, But if I give it to somebody else, then then I'm not gonna have something for me. That's the scarcity. So I remember talking to one of my clients a couple of weeks ago. And she was like, okay, like I'm making the money that I want, and a lot of things are going well, but I feel like something's off. I feel like I'm missing something. And I was like, are you serving anybody outside of your job? She was like, No. And I was like, huh. So What would it look like if you started serving people? Whether it's a nonprofit, whether it's something on your own, are you serving somebody outside of the thing that you're getting paid to do? And she was like, Huh. And I was like, go try that and let me know how that feels. She did it and she was like, I actually feel so good. And I was like, that's a thing called fulfillment when you're serving somebody else. Because we can do a job. We have this transaction. Then there's another side of it. Like, how am I using other gifts and talents to serve the people? So for myself, I serve at my church. And then I also serve on the as a board member of a nonprofit here in Salt Lake. And I serve the youth. So like that brings me fulfillment even more than coaching clients, building software. Those things are great. But those things are just like, that's meaningful things that I'm getting to do.

speaker-1: Yeah. And just purely for the purpose of serving, like without trying to get anything back. And this again reminds me of an idea that Bob Berg shared here on the podcast. He's the co-author of the book called The Go Giver. And it's just this whole philosophy, this whole reframe of how you can approach business, right? And trying to build a business or sales or really any application, right? Entering every opportunity. That you have with the person with the idea of not, hey, what can I get from this person? But instead, what can I give to this individual? How can I serve this other person? How can I help them? And there's a funny paradox thing that happens that if you approach and you live following that philosophy, the amount that will come back to you is a funny signal from the universe, I think, that like, hey, that's that seems to be the right way to go about it, right? Like if you just authentically or without like trying to put on a facab, like if you actually just so enter every situation with the frame of I just want to do anything I can to help serve and help this person. in every interaction in business and personal life, that way of living and that way of being tends to be a a pretty successful path to 'cause it's just gonna come back to you. Right. It's it's pretty awesome how that works.

speaker-0: Yeah, and that's one of my favorite book series, The Go Giver. But I was telling my girlfriend the other day, I was like, Do you notice the the wealthiest people, not not just financially, but the wealthiest people and the happiest people and the most fulfilled people are the most generous people? She was like, Yeah. I was like, I want to be a generous person. I want our relationship to be generous. And I told my team, I was like, I want us to be a generous organization that we're gonna give. We're gonna give more than we actually receive. And by the definition of giving, we're gonna receive a lot more. And one of my favorite sayings from Jim Rowan's, if you help enough people get what they want, you'll eventually get what you need. And I was like, okay, if we do that, like you said, the go giver effect, it comes back.

speaker-1: Yeah. In the conversation so far, you've brought up social media a few times. Why do you think social media has kind of distorted our view of like what we optimize for, what we cheat seek, what we chase? Like what role has social media played in kind of straying us off the path, if you will?

speaker-0: it's it's like our brains are are not created to to dissect so many things at one time. Like and and it silos things. Like if we're driving, we're only focused on a few things. But if we're focused on so many things, we become overwhelmed. So social media becomes this overwhelming force of everything's urgent, everything's important, everything is a highlight reel. So when we're constantly on that, and if People should know that they can actually create their own algorithm to to suit them a little bit better. You just don't have to accept what you see. You can put not interested, not interested, and it figures you out. But when we're constantly being inundated with and we're consuming, then the natural thing is to start comparing. So that's the default loop I often talk about with my clients. But how do we know we're not we're living by design is when we start creating. From what we consume. Because we're humans, we're going to consume content. Like you have the acquisition dot com from Alex Ramosy. So you consume, I'm assuming, his books, the $100 million offer, all that, all that great stuff. And then you go create something of your own. So that's how we can start using optimizing social media to our benefit versus just consuming and comparing.

speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, I think that social media is pretty toxic for a lot of reasons, but it's also like an incredibly powerful tool. You know, that's the current reality for most of the technologies that we create today is hey, this is extremely powerful, a lot really helpful in a lot of different ways, but there's a lot of negative side effects that we never anticipated. A great book that I don't know if I've recommended on the podcast yet, but one that was just fascinating, was it's called Technopoly by Neil Postman. And it's this whole study and accounting, a recounting of the history of technology's relationship with human culture and how much we have kind of conceded the direction that we're going is like what we optimize for and what we value in human society to technology. It's really fascinating. But anyways and then another thing that has kind of clouded my judgment on or not clouded but hit me in the face on the the dark side of social media is the social dilemma, that documentary. So social media definitely has a lot of downsides to it. But as far as like why does social media distort our things that we optimize and what we it's just like, you know, our our society, I mean my generation, younger, like social media really started to hit us when we were in middle school. then it wasn't until like later high school, college that it really became like a big thing. Like you care about how many followers you have. You are looking at how many likes your posts getting, right? So it's just like the social media game rewards, seems to reward the flashy, nice things, you know, the cool cars, the great vacations, looking happy, you know. It does seem like there has been a movement of more of that like authentic, real not hiding behind this shine and glam. That's starting to become more and more popularized, but the algorithm definitely plays a big role in like what we see, and then what we see informs what we want to become. So I can't say I have a very well articulated opinion on on it, but I hope that made sense.

speaker-0: No, that makes perfect sense. And I like when you said it distorts the way like by the likes that we have or how our post is doing. And going to our conversation a little bit earlier, talking about looking for fulfillment outside of us. And if we're constantly outsourcing our fulfillment, our identity, our worth, we're constantly gonna be swayed and moved by the algorithm. And I was listening to a commercial recently and it was like 26 years in business. And I thought about it, I like, why do businesses highlight and celebrate how long they've been in business? And then it hit me because it's about consistency over time. And when we look at s social media, it's like we think instantly it's supposed to happen, Instagram, Instapot, right? We think it's supposed to happen naturally and organically. And we said, it's an overnight success, or I'm gonna be a, I'm gonna go viral. It's just like, no, how long has it taken and actually to become an overnight success? And And that's the endurance piece that leads to fulfillment.

speaker-1: Yeah. And I think I appreciate you asking this question because now my mind's just racing on it. But the idea too of like social media, if you make a post, like if you post something out there, you're you're putting yourself out there, right? And again, it's just kind of like a natural human thing that if you put yourself out there in front of everybody, right? You you make this post like you're putting yourself out on stage, you're like, look at me, right? What kind of version of yourself are you gonna put on in that situation, right? You're gonna want to try and put on like the most Buttoned up, nice, polished, well shaved, you know, the the happiest version of yourself, right? Which is just not who you are. And then for the people that are just constantly online, like wanting to put themselves out there all the time. Like there is that that dopamine hit of like, okay, you put yourself out there, you put yourself all buttoned up out there, and then you get rewarded with like the dopamine hits of likes and engagement and you know, people messaging you and like all the comments like, my god, no way, like that loose all the So you get all that. So it's Yeah. So I guess like that's kind of that game. But because it's hard and uncomfortable to kind of put the authentic version of you out there because it's it can be ugly and it's uncomfortable. Like you you don't want people to like you wanna make it seem like you got it all figured out. Yeah.

speaker-0: And no one does.

speaker-1: So no one does. Yeah. No one does. But and then you just see that. Like you see everybody putting stuff on there that makes it feel like that they want everybody that's putting content on there. Maybe not everybody, that's a it's a strong word. But the content that you see is everybody trying to make it seem like they have it all figured out. So you just see all that and then you're like, I don't have it all figured out, they have it all figured out. Like now I'm behind. Now it just creates this this tension. It's like, okay, well now I need to go and try and achieve what they're what they have because they seem to have it all figured out. So I should get the car, I should get the house, I should get the nice job, I should start a business, I should do these things. Because it seems like, hey, they have it all figured out. So I should just go get what they did and then I'll have it all figured out too.

speaker-0: Yeah. And and the other side I see it too. So that's like the dark side of the comparison. I see it also like inspiration. Tony Robbins often talk about success leaves clues. If we can study the process and the strategies, like I grew up on Tony Robbins, but I've never met him in person. But a lot of his strategies, his systems, Jim Rohn, and now I listen to Myron Golden all the time. And I'm listening to his social media stuff, like on Instagram and TikTok. So The downside is saying, okay, I have this and they have this. What's what's happening? The upside I see is like, okay, they have this. How did they get this? So if I can understand how they got that, then I can I can study their systems and their strategies because it becomes timeless. And eventually I can get something either the same or something similar. But I see it as as is a blueprint for for the right stuff. And then I see it as a deterrent for the thing that's called noise.

speaker-1: For sure. And again, I think just to kind of dive into the idea of okay, you see somebody, success leaves clues, right? And I think like when you're reading or you're consuming that content, are you so much looking for how can I achieve that external thing that they achieved, right? Like the success, the money, that, or are you trying to kind of reverse engineer because this person achieved Inner peace, right? They achieved, they, they, they found their purpose. They're doing something that they love every single day. Is it more so you're looking at finding people who have achieved those things as opposed to like lots of money, really big business, big house, big cars, like that kind of stuff? Like you're almost looking to reverse engineer the process of how somebody stepped into who they truly were born to become. It's more that than like the the external stuff, right?

speaker-0: Yeah, a hundred percent. I I've come from nothing. I grew up in the projects in Fort Lauderdale. So money, all that stuff. The the crazy thing about all of it is all of us will die and none of us will take any of that with us. So if that's the pursuit, that's a losing game because I've talked to millionaires, six figure earners, coach six figure earner and millionaires, and one common thread I see is it's not that they have the money. But they they need purpose, they need fulfillment. So I've achieved this, but now I got it. And I was like, what else do I do with this? So it's a game. But looking at what are the systems or strategies and who do they need to become? So when I interview six-figure earners, people who are doing great things, they're used to saying, you know, how did you get this wealth? How did you get this idea? I don't care about that. To each their own, I can find that on LinkedIn. I asked, who did you have to become in order to get what you got? And they're just like, it gets a little bit deeper. I had to I had to sacrifice some things. I had to create some new systems in my life. I had to create some new routines and rhythms in order to stay sustainable. And I'm still evolving. That's what I care about.

speaker-1: Hmm. It's a good segue and it's a good question. So, David, who did you have to become to be the person that could coach others in finding their purpose and walking a path of fulfillment?

speaker-0: I had to become empty of the things I thought I knew. And I had to become curious about the things that I I had to become curious about what was important to others. So being obsessed with what what gets people from point A to point B, it's the clarity gap. And and people often associate clarity and they're just like, you don't need clarity to take action. That's foolish and that's stupid. Clarity is your next right step, not the outcome. I know what I'm supposed to do next, just like taking a GPS. If I'm going from here to Wisconsin, I only know the roads in Utah. And then I figure out the roads in Wyoming and then so forth and so forth. So I've had to empty myself. It's not about the David Prosper show. It's about how do I serve humanity? How do I fill in the gap? How do I come alongside as a guide from the side, not a sage from the stage? And help people get from their next step. So I can honor my mother who passed like 10 years ago, today, and and and fulfill that dream of her saying, I wish I did enough. So my mantra is I never want somebody to say, I wish I did enough, because my mother said that as she was passing. So if they know their next right step, their clarity step, it compounds like the book, the compound effect, and they eventually live a life by design versus a living life by default.

speaker-1: You don't want to get to the end and say, I wish I had done enough. How do you think you do that? Like how do you get to the end and feel, you know, I did it?

speaker-0: Mm, it's it's living every day with intention. One of the things I ask my girlfriend and I ask my team all the time is, what's your intention for today? And if we can do that consistently enough, then we're knowing we're setting our day with the right focus. So today my intention is embrace. And I went to the cemetery to reflect. I'm like, one day I'm gonna be in the ground. What am I doing today? That is gonna impact tomorrow. Cause when I'm gone, I'm gone. So setting the intention becomes setting my my equilibrium, my compass to face in a direction versus letting the day create my intention and I'm reacting. So if we do that long enough, consistently enough, we'll live a life that when we get to the end, we said, Hey, we did the best that we could versus I wish I did enough.

speaker-1: Yeah. You've brought up the reality and inevitability of death a couple of times. And that's something that I that resonates with me. it was, you know, I was in college trying to figure things out and I just happened to stumble upon some books on stoicism, like all of Ryan Holiday's books. I got Memento Mori tattooed on my wrist, the idea of the inevitability of death, like you could leave your life right now, the reality. So what has the understanding and your recognition of the inevitability of death brought to your life?

speaker-0: So much joy. So much joy. Like I was talking to my girlfriend today about it. I was like, I think about dying all the time. Not in this like, he's gonna write a s note or whatever. It's just like, no. But the closer we are to embracing the mortality of death, the more we actually live. So being in being at the cemetery today, I'm like, I don't need to hold on frustration any longer. I don't need to hold on resentment. I don't need to hold on. If something bothers me, Will it still matter in the grand scheme of things? Okay, how can I release this so I can start stepping into? So the closer I embrace the thought of death, the more I actually live.

speaker-1: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Right. The the reality and the understanding of the inevitability of death really underlines and underscores the the great impermanence of everything. Right. It allows you to just kind of look at the things that you're holding on to that don't serve you or just, you know, in day-to-day interaction, right? This is a combination of the reality and understanding of the inevitability of death and also the practice of mindfulness is just the rec the recognition of the impermanence of anything, the feeling, the thought, the situation, the station you're in today. And it really It's just kind of like a great letting go of worry of again those things that don't serve you. And it's just like a a forcing function to bring you here now, where your feet are at in this present moment. And it is just like a very joyous thing. It's like, hey, I'm not there yet. I'm still here today. Let's go. Like what do I what do I want to do? Right. Then like, okay, you get through that and then but then you're faced with like the question of, okay, what do I want? Right. Then what do I want to do? What Because in life, all you should do is like what you want to do, right? Like whatever that is for you. I think Naval Ravakant and he said a lot of similar things and I'm gonna butcher it. But anyways, like my favorite quotes from him is the greatest test of intelligence is whether or not you get what you want out of life. Right. So then in order to do that, you need to first answer the question, what do I want out of life? Which is the hard question, right? So how do you figure out what you want?

speaker-0: Mm. That's that's a deep one right there. putting some guardrails around it, wanting it without impeding on someone else's freedom. Yeah. And or impeding on someone else's freedoms or or or needs, because there's a lot of people who want things and that's a great that's a no-no space. But as far as when I think about what does somebody want or asking that question, the the biggest thing come to mind is what brings me joy? What refreshes me? What can I do while losing track of time? And how are my gifts, my geniuses being cultivated, celebrated, and facilitated in the lives of those around me? And if that's the if that's the question, then it's like, what do I want out of life? I want to make the lives of the people around me better. And in turn, my life becomes better.

speaker-1: Yeah. So what you want or what you're striving for in pretty much any instance of your life is going to be shaped by what you're incentivized by, right? What you're optimizing for, right? That metric, that outcome, the thing that you're optimizing for. Right. And I think one thing that I've noticed and it'll rhyme with a lot of the things that we talked about here today, is that if you're optimized, if you're optimizing for, if you're incentivized by money, that is going to very oftentimes lead you astray, right? It's going to lead you in a direction that isn't connected to your purpose or is going to fulfill you. So if we were to explore the idea of, okay, if we don't want to play this game of chasing money and optimizing our entire life for the making of more money and material things, what replaces it? Like what do we optimize? What should incentivize us? Like what do we optimize for? Like what are we building four. Does that make sense?

speaker-0: Mm-hmm.

speaker-1: So what do you think the answer to that is? Like if it's not money, what is it?

speaker-0: it's it's so cliche. It's purpose and service. And and purpose is how we serve. So it's like when someone says I'm living in my purpose, I mean I'm I'm living in service of others. And in service of others, we're in our biological design lifestyle. We're created to create. So if if we're focusing on that, then like I love how Steve Jobs. He was always obsessed with the user experience and innovation and technology. He wasn't obsessed with necessarily making a lot of money. It was just like, how can we, how can we, you know, own the market? How can we advance technology? How can we advance humanity? same thing with with Elon Musk. He said, I remember hearing him in the interview, it was like, You could take all this money away from me. I still would want to pursue like, you know, g getting humans to Mars and t you know, traveling space and then Creating a better world. And he said this recently at a at a forum. He said, with the neural links that connect to the brain, he was like, We're doing some Jesus lap level stuff. Like R restoring control of people who are tetraplegics and restoring sight, I think are pretty pretty big deals. Those what I might call like sort of Jesus level sort of technologies.

speaker-1: Miracles.

speaker-0: Virgils, yes. People are walking and talking like in some of the trials. So it's it's focusing on how the thing we're doing is helping the community that we're in. And if we do that long enough, consistently enough, it helps the the greater community. So

speaker-1: I love it. Yeah, that's definitely a better, more concrete answer than we got to. Instead of optimizing and incenting for incentivized by like how can I make the most money? It's how can I serve the most people? Right. Because then when you are exploring and you're you're incentivized by that, how can I serve the most people? It's naturally going to guide you through like to the place where you are most uniquely gifted or qualified in the service of others. Like how can I serve help as many people as possible? That does seem like the the metric that will lead you on a path closer to fulfillment and closer to purpose. Yeah, I love that. Thank you for that. That kind of brings me to an the next question, which is the difference between fulfillment and purpose. So I probably use them a little bit too interchangeably at times, but what do you see is the difference between fulfillment and purpose?

speaker-0: Fulfillment is how does this make what does this do for me? And purpose is what does this do for you? And the beautiful Venn diagram that I see is finding what feels good for me and how it makes you feel good for you. And that's the synergy that I see is just like if we can tie those two up, those would be a beautiful place. So yeah, fulfillment is how does this make me feel for me? And services, how does this make or purposes, how does this make you feel for you?

speaker-1: Hmm. What do you think about this? Cause as as I was listening to you answer that, as you know you naturally do, the brain starts just racing in a thousand different directions. But what do you think about the idea of like fulfillment is almost like a sensation that you feel when you're moving closer to your purpose or you're when you're when you're walking in alignment of your purpose? Right. Purpose is almost like the the reason for being, right? Purpose is the reason for being why you are here. This is your calling. This is your unique gift, your unique contribution that you're here to make. And then fulfillment is almost a sensation that you feel when you're acting that out, when you're walking in alignment with it.

speaker-0: Mm. I like that. So as you're talking, I I think of fulfillment as the mile markers and the confirmation that you're on the right path to get that or you're on the right path for that purpose because it feels good for you. And you said earlier, coming from that authentic place and how the world is changing, if it feels good for me, that joy is gonna naturally become generous and is gonna overflow to you versus someone who is not living in fulfillment and they're doing something, you feel like something's off. They're doing all the right things, but it doesn't seem like it matches. So I like that. And as far as like the confirmation, that's huge.

speaker-1: Yeah, I love it. So for the people that are the high achievers that are listening and you know, they something just feels off. However that shows up, right? Like maybe they they have the success, they're making good money, they have a great business, they have the family, they have the things, right? But something feels off. Whether that shows up is like it's hard to get out of the bed out of bed in the morning. They find themselves kind of numbing themselves by just like with content. They just don't feel very engaged with life and the things that they're working on. However that shows up, right? Something just feels off. Where would you call for people who are in that situation to start? Obviously get in touch with David here, the clarity guy. Links in the description. But if they had, you know, something that they wanted to do today when they're listening to this conversation, what would you ask them to do?

speaker-0: Hmm, that's a good one. And and being in that space, sometimes it can feel like forever, and then sometimes the weight can feel just unbearable. I would say if someone's in that space, this is gonna sound counterintuitive and it's gonna sound weird. That's a beautiful place to be because your life, God, the universe, like something is telling you something's not right. So I would encourage you to Explore that. Where's this coming from? Why is it showing up? What is it leading me from and leading me to? Because pain and suffering and adversity is teaching us something. So I would ask the question even more so, like, what is this supposed to teach me? And where is it supposed to lead me? And when we start using that filter system, it becomes We see everything as a lesson versus everything as an obstacle. And if we see things as a lesson, then we're more likely to lean into discomfort versus if we see it as an obstacle, we're likely to avoid the discomfort.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm. I love it. I think that's beautiful what you said, that it is a or it is a beautiful place to be, right? That recognition that something feels off. You want to make a change. And it makes sense. That is a beautiful place to be because everything in life starts first starts, every change that you want to make in life first starts with awareness, right? Awareness that there's a problem. And I hope this conversation today can help kind of stir that awareness in others who might be in that situation. but then once you have the awareness, right? Just like once you have the idea. Then the hard work actually begins, right? Of actually taking action to make that change. And in the work that we're talking about here, which is trying to live a life more aligned with your purpose and and a more fulfilling life, that is like the biggest work you can do, like the most important thing that you can do, but it's also going to be some of the hardest things that you can do. Right. Another I'll bring it up again, but Paul Graham wrote an essay called How to Do What You Love in the early two thousands. It's a great essay. I'll have it linked in the description. And one of the points that stuck with me in that is that out of the billions of people that have existed over the last hundred years, right, maybe a few hundred thousand people have really truly found their purpose, like lived a life that they love, found the work that is uniquely for them. so it is a uncommon thing to find. But when you do find it, everything else in life just happens naturally. Like you're gonna be happy, you're gonna be successful, you're gonna, you know, have the impact that you wanna have if you can truly find it. And I've been on this seeking journey and the things that I have noticed in my own process of trying to find this for myself is I find that I make the most progress when I do take time in the day to just just be like I don't know be still. I guess that's also like a pretty cliche thing. But when you find that moment of stillness throughout the day, you can hear your intuition speak to you. and that intuition is going to be the thing that guides you on the path. Cause that intuition is God is the universe that is, you know, it's your soul kind of calling out to the direction that it wants you to take. And it's something, you know, like I have a few things that in those moments of stillness I've heard all the time. And I'm I took action on it for the first time yesterday. Like I want to start writing. Like I want to start writing, and there's other things that I want to talk about and learn about that will require writing. And I finally did it for the first time yesterday. Like I just sat down for 15 minutes, just like, let's write. Uh-huh. But it's just those moments of stillness. Is that something that you you recognize in your work as well? It's just like the awareness is one thing, you want to make a change, but then then a part of that journey is creating those moments of stillness.

speaker-0: Yeah, hundred percent. And the greatest teachers you talk about stoicism. The greatest teachers, Marcus Aurelius, Jesus. All of these teachers show us one thing. When we remove ourselves from the noise and we can hear ourselves think and process things, the greatest ideas come from from that. And yeah, I do it literally every day. It's just like if I can't find time within my schedule, I usually have my assistant schedule like A session like I do a recovery session. So I do red light, do some type of modality that forces me to get present, help my body heal so I can show up and be sharp. But yeah, it's it's essential. And if we don't do those things, find those moments of stillness, that's when burnout happens. And it's like we burn out because we're not pausing long enough or we're not resting and recovering. So I like that.

speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. And I don't imagine burnout, like in my experience is with burnout for sure. Like it comes from when I'm not taking those moments of stillness, you know, working out, getting in sleep, that kind of stuff. But it also can be a good signal that like something I'm working on isn't really energizing me, you know, it's not something that that can be a pretty good signal as well that a change needs to be made, whatever that is. But David, thank you so much for the time. Today I have one last question for you. It's a recurring question that I ask every guest. But before we get to that, how can people get in touch with you?

speaker-0: Wow, the honor is mine. Thank you for having me in. you can find me on all social media platforms at The Clarity Guy. I live mostly on Instagram, but all social media platforms, The Clarity Guy.

speaker-1: Cool. We'll have the links to everything in the description. Go get connected with David. if anything that we talked about today sounds like something that you are struggling with or you want any help in building a life more aligned with your purpose and a more fulfilling life, highly recommend you get in touch with David. David, my final question for you, as I mentioned, is a recurring question I ask every guest, but if you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for ten seconds, what would it say and why?

speaker-0: Every day find clarity, every day make progress. And if we pursue clarity and we make progress, that ultimately lives leads us to a life of fulfillment, leads us to a life of purpose, and then leads us in a life of impact.

speaker-1: Mm. Every day find clarity. Every day make progress. I love it. David, thank you so much for the time.

speaker-0: the honest man, thank you.

speaker-1: As the metric in which you measure success in your life, it's going be really easy to be taken off course. So, what should replace money as the metric and how we s measure our success in life, right? Or what should be the metric that we optimize for? And we came to the conclusion like how many people you have served, right? How many people have you been useful for? How many people have you impacted in a positive way? Right. If you set that as your metric to replace the amount of dollars that you're making, it will keep you. on a path and more aligned with something closer that will feel like fulfillment, right? More aligned with your purpose and your unique reason for being here. If you want to get connected with David, you can find the links to his social media and his other services in the description of this episode. And if you're on a coaching program, course, or mastermind and you want to make it easier for your clients to get results, download the free program execution system toolkit in the description. It'll show you how to install what I call execution infrastructure, which makes it easier for clients to follow through and get results. Thank you for listening and I'll see you in the next one.