Annie: Welcome to covered a podcast that helps you figure out what the hell is going on in the news and how you feel about it.

Jodi: Here to guide you through the biggest news stories of this week. As always, we are your hosts, journalists Jodie Lee and Annie Pulla.

Annie: On this week's episode, we dive into the controversy engulfing the Carlton Football Club and the conversation it sparked about men's mental health.

Jodi: Comedian Reba Wilson is back in Australia, this time to front a federal court judge. We break down the details of her defamation lawsuit.

Annie: Yes, we're also diving into the world of negative gearing and the capital gains tax. So what changes could be coming in the May federal budget?

Jodi: first, let's look at our honorable mentions this week. These are the stories that are worth getting across but perhaps didn't warrant a deep dive. And the very first one is a story we brought you a couple of weeks ago. Victoria Cross recipient Ben Roberts Smith has broken his silence after he was arrested on war crime of murder. He's fronted the cameras, called a press conference and basically vowed to fight back and clear his name. He says this has been a decade long campaign against him and he's looking forward to writing record.

Annie: There's also calls for schools to teach the Bondi massacre to students in primary and high school. Federal Education Minister Jason Clare said the Anti-Semitism Education Task Force is currently reviewing the curriculum and how it can be included in lessons on anti-Semitism and social cohesion.

Jodi: And the big supermarkets are again in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Woolies is under fire for allegedly offering customers fake discounts. ⁓ The ACCC alleges that the supermarket raised the prices of at least 266 products before slapping a prices dropped label on them, meaning that the alleged or so-called discount was actually higher than the original price. But let's move into our top story for today. To preface this, this is an AFL story on the surface, but it's also a story about safe workplaces and what we ask of young men in Australia who are in the public eye and more than anything it's a story about men's mental health.

Annie: Yeah, so for those who aren't familiar, Elijah Hollands is 23 years old. He plays for Carleton. Last year, he actually took personal leave, not once, but twice. And when he came back, he was really transparent and honest about why. He'd been battling with his mental health. He was quite open about the issues he had had with alcohol and substance abuse. Carleton, essentially, on the back of that, delisted him at the end of the season with a year still left on his contract. And he fought his way back through preseason. He basically earned his spot back on the list and had played every single game this year.

Jodi: And then Carlton played Collingwood last week and things really started to unravel. It started on social media. Punters who were at the MCG, there were 85 odd thousand of them in the stands, started posting videos of Elijah Hollins to social media. At first there was one video that showed him missing a set shot before the first bounce, but throughout the game he looked distracted, he was kind of disengaged and at times he was seen to be drifting off from play. The clip spread really quickly on social media, not because people were piling on, but I guess everybody collectively was asking the same question, you know, which was what is going on here and how is this bloke on the field, let alone playing for three quarters of a game.

Annie: Yeah, he's pretty

Jodi: Thank

Annie: Yeah, that is really hard to listen to now knowing how this story has transpired. That there was Carlton coach Michael Voss, also a Brisbane Lions great, who gave those comments about Holland's game in the post-match press conference. ⁓ But this story very quickly became clear that it was far more than an off game, far more than a player who had seemingly disappointed his teammates. The following day, Carlton actually acknowledged ⁓ it was a mental health episode. The club CEO Graham Wright then came out in a subsequent press conference saying that he could only rule out alcohol or substances and I say in inverted commas at this stage. Four days later, Hollins was then admitted into hospital ⁓ and now we're sort of at the precipice of this story where WorkSafe Victoria is assessing whether the club breached its obligations under occupational health and safety laws.

Jodi: I mean, yeah, it's like a five day arc that just got progressively worse and evolved day on day.

Annie: Yeah and honestly over the last week I have just kept coming back to one single question and that is how didn't someone at Carlton know? I mean you do not miss what was visible to people sitting in the nosebleed section. Fans were literally sitting hundreds of meters away in elevated stands filming his erratic and somewhat distressed behaviour on their phones and uploading it to social media in real time. just, if strangers could see this in the crowd, how couldn't the staff on the very field? We're talking about a pretty big team of staff. There's ⁓ line coaches, there's midfield coaches. We understand that two doctors and a nurse were part of that coaching team. I mean, he recorded one disposal. for the entire match. was wandering away from play, he was throwing his hands in the air, he was visibly not present, and yet he played not one, not two, but three quarters of a football game at an elite level. Like, it's just not credible to think that that behaviour could have gone unnoticed.

Jodi: I think for me, and that's a really common question that's been asked a lot is how does, how did Carlton miss this? and Voss did another press conference today, actually, where he said, you know, the commentary is bordering on bullying, like the criticisms of the club. For me, the entire conversation kind of misses the point. The question is not, you know, for me, how did Carlton miss this or why did Carlton miss this? It's why is a 23 year old elite athlete in that state of mind in the first place? Like. You know, this is a country where we prop up sports people and athletes to a level that is reserved only for them. They're national heroes, they're role models, they have very lucrative contracts and brand deals. They're, you know, for all intents and purposes, celebrities in Australia. And we're very quick to talk about their physical health. Every alleged injury misstep is scrutinized, you know, on radio and then on panel shows and then in the paper the next day. Why is no one asking the simple question? Are you okay? Like any failure of the club to have noticed that he was having, you know, struggling with his mental health for me is just reflective of a broader national failure in this country of us, you know, failing to ask a simple question of the people we allege to admire and respect so much.

Annie: I mean you would have to have thought that someone in that team did ask that question because it's worth noting that his brother is on that very same team and there were teammates towards the end of that match when they do those post-game interviews that they you could see on their face that they were aware something was wrong whether they flagged that with the coaching staff or whether they didn't it's still unclear but what is clear is that someone made a call to keep him on that oval and I just personally feel like Elijah Hollins has has really been let down by this football club that was supposed to be wrapping their arms around him. And historically, when you look at it from a broader sense, and when you look at the league, it seems like when players seem to tell us that they're not okay, we just love to move on to the next story and completely forget about it.

Jodi: You're bang on. is a pattern that's emerging that I think as a country, not only as Carlton supporters, but collectively as fans, as administrators, as players, we need to stop and take note of. There's a charity by the name of The Man Cave that really eloquently summed up what could only be called a crisis. And I think a warning for listeners that, you know, this subject does touch on men's mental health and the very difficult topic of suicide. But if you look at the statistics inside the AFL alone, In the last 18 months, Troy and Adam Selwood, brothers, we've lost within three months of each other. Jamarra Yugal-Hagan spoke really openly about his own mental health struggles. Bailey Smith has spoken about his own mental health struggles. Last week, Adelaide captain Jordan Dawson lost his brother to suicide. These aren't isolated incidents. You know, suicide is the leading cause of death for men under 25 in Australia. Seven men will die by suicide every single day. every week we have young girls and young boys, more importantly, watching footy, watching codes like the AFL, learning how, you know, their idols, how men are supposed to handle grief, loss, adversity, pressure and pain. And, you know, A number of these players, Bailey Smith, know, chief among them has now on the back of this Elijah Holland situation come out and said enough's enough. We need a mental health round in the AFL.

Annie: Hmm. Yeah, well it's never been a more pressing time and I just think when we put these ⁓ athletes on a pedestal and we idolise them and we make them our heroes we have to look after them when they tell us that they're not okay. It's worth pointing out that Elijah Holland's birthday is actually this weekend. He turns 24 on Saturday. Right now he's sitting in a hospital and I just have to say I think We're both thinking of him. If this reaches his family, his friends, his community, we want everyone to know that we're all behind him and nothing is more important than his wellbeing. It's worth noting that his dad did put out a statement on social media this week and said that they're obviously standing behind him, supporting him and will be with him every step of the way.

Jodi: Absolutely, but if anyone listening to this or someone they know or love does need help you can call Lifeline at any time on 13 11 14

Annie: Moving to a slightly lighter and more bizarre note now, our next story is also about workplace issues, but this time it's actually centred around the set of a Hollywood blockbuster. It's a little bit showbiz, a little bit lore and a lot messy. Also a whole lot wild. ⁓ At the centre of this is Australian actress and comedian, Rebel Wilson. Morning everybody. Thank you for coming. I'm so happy to see you all.

Jodi: It is so wild! to my party slash my ⁓ court hearing. So obviously.

Annie: It's honestly like she's rocking up to like a family celebration and she's like, hi everyone, haven't seen you in a while, greetings.

Jodi: So obviously it's amazing. so for people who don't know what's coming, you perhaps didn't find that quite as bizarre as we did. So let's unpack it. That is obviously Rebel Wilson not arriving to a family barbecue, indeed showing up to the federal court in Sydney this week. As you saw there, she was all smiles, spruiking her new feature film, The Dev. Make sure you go and see it kids. Now inside the courtroom, things were very, very different and they took a decidedly less sunny tone. She was essentially labeled a bully.

Annie: Dan O'Gret. Thank

Jodi: Rebel Wilson is being sued for defamation.

Annie: Yeah, and it's worth just reiterating what defamation is. So defamation is when you publish or say something about a person that damages their reputation. And in Australia, defamation law is really powerful and it's very tightly held. The main defense against it essentially comes down to proving that what you said is true. So the burden of proof really sits with the person who says the damaging thing.

Jodi: Well, in this instance, Rebel Wilson is the one who's alleged to have said this allegedly damaging thing. Basically, she's being sued for defamation by a young actress by the name of Charlotte McInnes. She's 25, she's also Australian and she hails from WA and Charlotte kind of got her big breakout role starring in this film that Rebel directed called The Deb. Now it was shot back in 2023 and since then there's this massive legal stash that's unraveled, but the whole thing traces back to a very bizarre incident involving a bathtub and Bondi Beach.

Annie: Bath tub in Bondi Beach, just, it sounds like a story that I want to know more about. I would say bizarre is an understatement. This whole thing is absolutely mystifying. So during filming back in September, 2023, the producer who's called Amanda Ghost claims that she had an allergic reaction to cold water after a swim at Bondi. It's actually a real condition. I'm not even going to try and attempt the name of what it's called because I literally don't know how to say it, ⁓ but Charlotte helped her back to the penthouse where they ended up staying together and that's where they ran a bath and decided to both warm up. So both women somehow ended up in this bath, worth pointing out that both were apparently wearing their swimmers cups of chamomile tea were had, but Charlotte's lawyers have been very clear on this point that at no point in that bath were they touching.

Jodi: that things get very convoluted to stick with us. So Rebel wasn't actually at the apartment at the time of the bathtub incident but she claims that Charlotte, the young actress, came to her and complained about the bath situation saying that it made her feel uncomfortable. Charlotte alleges a very different set of circumstances. She says that that conversation with Rebel never happened and she didn't feel uncomfortable. A text message that Rebel sent to Amanda Ghost, the producer who was allegedly in the bath with Charlotte at the time, was shown in court this week and in it, Rebel wrote, Charlotte says all good, she just meant it was a bizarre situation, not that she personally felt uncomfortable.

Annie: Yeah, I mean, you just can't believe this is happening. Like, in the context of a set of a Hollywood movie, you would think that there would be so many other parameters ⁓ in dealing with situations like this. for 10 months after that text ⁓ interaction, nothing really happened. was it. It was seemingly end of story. But behind the scenes, Rebel. ⁓ Amanda Ghost and other producers were actually falling out over writing credits, budgets and the film's release. So Charlotte's barristers have really come out swinging saying that Rebel began using that whole bath situation, bath conversation as ammunition in her own business fight.

Jodi: So the alleged defamation happened on social media. In July 2024, Rebel Wilson accused the producers, including Amanda Ghost, of inappropriate behavior toward Charlotte McInnes. Rebel Wilson has 11 million followers on Instagram. She posted four times and each one she essentially accused Ghost of sexually assaulting Charlotte in the bathtub. And then she claimed that Charlotte backtracked on her own story in exchange for career help from Ghost.

Annie: Right, so she's basically publicly telling her tens of millions of people that Charlotte was harassed, complained about it, and then flipped her story to stay in the good books or stay on the good side of a producer who was advancing her career professionally. But here's the thing that really changes this, at least for me, from advocacy into something far more calculated. Rebel apparently took out... a defamation insurance policy about four months before making that first Instagram post. So Charlotte's Barrister is basically framing this as well, hey, she's done all of this so she can absolutely have a free for all and go ballistic online.

Jodi: Well, interestingly, Rebel obviously hasn't been afraid to talk on social media or with the media more generally. She actually sat down with Tara Brown from 60 Minutes on the set of The Deb. Let's have a listen.

Annie: Charlotte? think and when it gets into the the details in court I think I mean I don't think anyone in their right mind believes that a medical incident occurred and that Amanda Goh's needed the body warmth of an actress to save her life. I mean I it's just not Yeah I ⁓ Listen, when it's said out loud like that, the bathing thing does sound very peculiar. But I have to be honest, this is where I kind of struggle with ⁓ Rebel's position because even if she genuinely believed Charlotte was uncomfortable at some point, she's now saying under oath, I was not harassed. I never made a complaint. Please leave it here. Like if you're truly advocating for someone and you're showing, you know, the female empowerment that you want to show to support someone in what has framed to be quite an uncomfortable situation and that person is kind of begging you to stop, I just don't understand why you keep going.

Jodi: Yeah, and hopefully that comes out during this trial. The thing that stands out for me is who is funding this lawsuit for Charlotte McInnes? She's 25 years old. The details of some of her employment contracts have been aired in court. One of them was in the vicinity of like, I think it was $154,000, a record deal. Like that's very good, impressive money, but she's by no means making millions of dollars a year yet as a Hollywood actress. And yet the woman she has defending her in this defamation suit is arguably the most successful defamation barrister in Australia. Sue Chrysanthor has represented some of the biggest names in Australia, Lisa Wilkinson, Geoffrey Rush, and she charges astronomical fees. I mean, it's been reported that when she was working with Lisa Wilkinson to defend her against Bruce Lererman's defamation case, she was charging Wilkinson $800 an hour for discovery and administration and $800 thousand dollars for every day that they were in court. So I'm really curious, is this just a case she's taken on pro bono because she likes Charlotte and wants to help her cause or is there somebody behind the scenes who's paying for this?

Annie: you Well, my first reaction is we have entered the wrong industry. Maybe we should all go back and study law. It seems like this isn't a game you get into unless you're really confident that you can win. I found these ⁓ statistics really interesting. ⁓ Three out of four cases in the court over the last 10 years have gone in favor of the person suing. So someone ⁓ must be backing this and they clearly think have a shot. It's worth remembering ⁓ that because this is a defamation case, it's being heard by a judge. ⁓ not a jury. So I am personally very curious as to how all of this plays out. ⁓ I am no lawyer, but Rebel Wilson not only has to defend her reputation, she has to prove that that private conversation where there was no witnesses and no recording is true. And my mum who is a lawyer says that that's a very difficult position to defend from.

Jodi: Well, if Beckpula says it, has to be true. She's who I choose to defend me in any situation in court. But looking ahead to the remainder of the trial, Charlotte McInnes is currently giving evidence and Rebel Wilson is also due to give evidence. So this is definitely one that we will keep an eye on. But let's move on to our final story, which is a little out of left field for us.

Annie: I'm sorry. ⁓ Bye! Yes, Jodie and I, think we'll be the first to admit that we tend to sort of glaze over or avoid when a story starts with the words capital gains tax. But many of you have asked for help getting a handle on financial news. So we really hope that this story ⁓ brings you some insight and it is a big one.

Jodi: Definitely, and it's important because the federal budget lands on the 12th of May, which is just around the corner. And in the weeks leading up to it, there are two key terms that we keep hearing more and more everywhere we turn. That is obviously negative gearing and capital gains tax. If you own property, if you invest in shares, if you're trying to buy your first home, this story really does directly impact you.

Annie: Yeah, and even if none of those things do apply to you, this is still a conversation about who gets to build wealth in this country and who doesn't. So I think it's worth starting with the basics here. What exactly is capital gains tax?

Jodi: Okay, so capital gains tax or know colloquially known as CGT is a tax you pay when you sell an investment. Whether that investment is a house, whether it shares cryptocurrency or a business. Let's for argument's sake say that you buy an apartment for $100,000 and a few years later you sell it for $200,000. You've made a hundred grand profit. That profit is what the government calls your capital gain and the government treats that as income and so it taxes you on that at the same rate that you pay your income tax. And for every one of us, based on what we earn, we pay a different rate of income tax. The only investment that you don't pay capital gains tax on is your primary place of residence or your own home. And there's no suggestion that Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers is looking to change that element of this policy.

Annie: I think the part that's really controversial here is that there is a discount on the capital gains tax. So currently if you hold an investment for more than 12 months, when you go to sell it you can get a 50 % discount. on the tax. So instead of paying tax on $100,000 you pay tax on $50,000. We get it, we're giving you a maths lesson today. But that is a pretty big concession when you think about it because you've halved your tax bill just by holding onto it long enough.

Jodi: Yeah, and that Discount on the capital gains tax has done a few things what it's incentivized people to do is to hold on to their investments like property because you need to have had it for more than 12 months to Get access to the tax discount but more than anything it's attracted a lot of property investors to the market That's meant that there are a lot more people vying for the available homes That means lots of competition and competition inevitably drives up prices. So That's one of the reasons why the government is considering changing the capital gains tax because as we've talked about on the podcast before it's never been more difficult for first home buyers and for Australians in general to crack into the property market.

Annie: Yeah, and it's still a bit fuzzy about what's actually going to happen. We don't really know what the government will do to the capital gains tax, but a few options have been put on the table. So the first is getting rid of the CGT discount altogether, so it's wiped out. The second is reducing the discount from 50 % to 30%. But there's strong indication at this stage that any changes would be grandfathered, I actually love that term, meaning anything you already own stays under the current rules. So only new purchases made after the change would be subject to this new discount.

Jodi: Thank Yes, so that's kind of CGT in a nutshell. It obviously helps investors with their tax once they sell a property. There's another tax break that's also on the table come the federal budget that helps people when they own a property. So CGT is when you flog it or you sell it. Negative gearing is what helps you when you actually own the property. So when you own an investment property and the costs of owning it, so that's your mortgage, maintenance, might need any, you have to pay council rates, all of those things up to more than the rent your tenants pay you to live there, it basically means that you're out of pocket So basically you're making a loss on paper. That's negative gearing.

Annie: Yeah, because my immediate reaction to all of this, I must admit, I'm kind of, as I said, I really love to avoid these terms, but I was like, why do you do that? Like, why would you hold onto something that's actually costing you money? But this is the bit that clicked for me. So hopefully it will click for you. Negative gearing actually lets you take that loss and deduct it from your salary. So your taxable income drops, meaning you pay less tax. So the government is basically helping you fund your loss in the short term while you wait for the value of your property to go up

Jodi: Yes, it's a super smart strategy if you can afford it, but it particularly benefits people who are on high incomes because obviously the more you earn, the more tax you pay. So if you have these negatively geared properties, as you very rightly said, it brings down the amount of tax that you owe the government. Now, combined negative gearing with that capital gains tax discount that we just talked about, where you get a 50 % tax break if you hold on to the property for at least 12 months. Together, those two policies make property an extraordinarily lucrative investment. So you're basically subsidized while you hold on to it and then you're taxed at a discount when you sell it. So that's the kind of combination of two policies that go hand in hand that a lot of critics are now saying has turbocharged investor, I guess, interest in the property market and made it really difficult for homeowners or people looking for a primary place of residence to break in at all.

Annie: Yeah, and I think what the government is trying to do is kind of level the playing field here. They're looking at changing how many properties you can actually negative gear. Right now there's no limit. So the change is being modelled on a two property cap.

Jodi: Yeah, so you could negatively gear up to two properties. You can own three or four or five or 50, but anything after your first two properties, you can't write those losses off against your income. Come tax time.

Annie: Mm. Yeah, okay. If you're still with us, I just want to say well done. It does sound a little bit dry, but I think it is such an important story. It's a lot to wrap your head around, especially if you don't own an investment property like me. But what caught me off guard is this isn't just a property thing. ⁓ CGT applies to every investment asset you hold. that's shares, businesses, bonds, crypto, which Kinda means any change to the discount flows straight through to superannuation, which affects every Australian.

Jodi: Yes, and this is kind of where it gets a little bit tricky. The property industry with respect to property is saying that if you pull these incentives back, investors will walk away because it becomes really difficult for them and there's not that much incentive. And if there are fewer investors offering rental properties on the market, then rents will inevitably go up. So it's challenging there. It's also likely to impact our superannuation. which means that the rate at which our super grows will likely slow. So no one's saying that this is a quick fix, but it certainly these are two of the levers that the government is considering pulling come the May federal budget.

Annie: Yeah, and it's also probably worth pointing out who wins and loses here really depends on where you sit. ⁓ The budget, as we mentioned, is May 12, just a few weeks away. Nothing has been legislated, but this one ⁓ is one of those conversations that's been building for a really long time, and it feels like we're hitting this big inflection point, and a shift could be coming. Anyway.

Jodi: It's possible. Having said that, nearing every federal budget, these two policies in particular have been hot topics and have been on the table and so far they haven't been tweaked with, but anytime will tell.

Annie: I was going to say how many topics are spruiked ahead of a federal budget and then it comes to budget hand down day and like you don't see any change at all. But I have to say I think I'm about done for the day with this financial literacy. We hope that you got something out of it and feel covered across the week's biggest news.

Jodi: And if you are enjoying listening to covered, we would love to ask you two very small favors. Please follow us on Spotify and Apple podcasts and make sure to rate us five stars. Thank you so much for listening. See you next week.