Annie: to covered a podcast that you figure out what the hell is going on in the news and how you feel about it.

Jodi: We're here to guide you through the biggest news stories of the week. As always, we are your hosts, journalists Jodi Lee and Annie Pullar

Annie: And on this week's episode, we are picking up exactly where we left off last week. The ISIS brides are home. A group of Australian women and their children have landed in Australia after more than a decade overseas and years spent living in a Syrian refugee camp.

Jodi: Our second story this week is around croc wrangler and Netflix star Matt Wright. He's been denied early prison release, meaning he's about to miss the birth of his third child. How did he get here and what does the law actually say?

Annie: The Queensland Ministers at the centre of a very salacious affair scandal hid their relationship from Cabinet while making decisions that directly benefited each other's electorates. But first let's go to our honourable mentions. These are the stories that don't quite warrant a deep dive but are worth getting your head across.

Jodi: Yeah, and the first one is a suicide note allegedly written by the late Jeffrey Epstein has been released by a US judge. reads, investigated me for months, found nothing. And then it says it is a treat to be able to choose one's time to say goodbye. What you want me to do? Bust out crying. No fun. Not worth it. Epstein's former cellmate says he found it in the cell a week after Epstein's body was found elsewhere in the New York prison.

Annie: Our second honourable mention, former Queensland Premier Anastasia Palaszczuk has been forced to cancel her book tour after her partner, Brisbane surgeon Dr Reza Adib was charged with three counts of rape. The memoir, called The Politics of Being Me, actually speaks glowingly about their relationship, describing him as a loving partner. The timing couldn't have been worse. Palaszczuk was asked about his arrest at a tour event on the Gold Coast and she said she had no idea. Three terms leading Queensland and yeah, this is how the comeback tour ends.

Jodi: our final honorable mention, Reserve Bank of Australia has put rates up again by 25 basis points back to 4.35%, which means that every cut they made since February of 2025 has now been reversed. It's all been undone in three swift rises. Inflation jumped sharply in the month of March and that was kind of enough for the RBA. If you've been enjoying slightly lower ⁓ interest repayments on your home loan, it seems that that window has unfortunately closed.

Annie: Yeah, a very grim financial climate that we're in. But I want to go straight to our lead story this week, which is probably one of the biggest stories of the year considering political climate ⁓ our country is in right now. As we sit down to record this, the so-called ISIS brides have touched down back in Australia. ⁓ That's a cohort of 13, four women and nine children, wives and families of Islamic State fighters landing in both Sydney and Melbourne tonight after more than a decade away and years locked in the Al-Roj detention camp in Syria.

Jodi: Yeah, and if you listen to our episode last week, we really outlined just how we got here. The federal government saying it wasn't doing anything to repatriate these women and children, but ultimately issuing them with Australian passports. We talked about their years in those detention camps in Syria, about the children who are technically Australian but have never set foot in this country. Today, it actually happened and incredibly ABC journalist Bridget Rolison was on board the connecting flight with those women and children. She spoke with some of them in Doha airport. Have a listen to what she filed from onboard that flight.

Annie: Yeah, I mean Syrian children with Australian accents, don't know if that quite adds up, but what is clear in this story is that this was far from a welcome home party for this cohort. AFP officers were essentially waiting at both airports ready to pounce. This was a heavily planned meticulous operation that has been in the works for many, many years. A group of men were apparently in Melbourne to escort these women through a throng of waiting media and it would have been an absolute frenzy. The group came in, as I mentioned off the top, on two separate flights. The Sydney flight carried one woman and one child, believed to be Janai Safar, a former nursing student who left Australia back in 2015, and actually gave an interview to the Australian a few years later in 2019, saying she would never step foot back in Australia because she didn't want her son growing up in a non-Islamic country where there are, and I quote, naked women on the streets.

Jodi: opinions loosely held, it's incredible to think how quickly someone like that can change their opinions and their views when the circumstances on the ground in Syria change are not for the better. But Janai Safar is one of three women who is expected to be arrested on arrival here in Australia. The AFP has indicated that she could be arrested for entering or remaining in a declared terrorist area. The other two women who are expected to be taken into custody are grandmother Kausa Abbas and one of her two adult daughters. The pair has been accused by two Yazidi women of keeping them as slaves during their time in the war zone. we said at the time of recording tonight, these women and children have only just touched down here in Australia, but we are expecting a press conference from the Australian Federal Police ⁓ tonight and we'll bring you those updates in next week's episode.

Annie: Yes, as we say, a very fluid situation, but I think it's worth pointing out that the women who arrested tonight or in the coming days, they necessarily off the hook either. Some are still under active investigation under the watchful eyes of ASIO And then to that, there are still nine children. part of this situation and this is the part that I think I find genuinely difficult to process. Most of them, as the ABC journalist alluded to, were born in Syria. Some of them have never been to Australia. They've never stepped foot in Sydney or Melbourne up until tonight. They are not facing any charges, they're also kind of not walking out of this plane and into a normal life either. They'll go through no doubt integration programs, support, no doubt countering violent extremism programs. ⁓ New South Wales the Minister, Chris Minns weighed in today and he said that the parents here made their choices but the kids had absolutely nothing to do with any of it and I think me at least that's the one part of this whole story where many Australians, whatever they feel about the mothers and the wives, ⁓ actually agree on.

Jodi: Yeah, what's interesting is earlier you referred to them as Syrian children, but they're actually Australian kids. We touched briefly on this last episode, but a child born overseas to Australian parents is naturally a citizen of Australia and the federal government can't simply remove citizenship away from somebody if it means rendering them stateless. essentially the Albanese government's hands were kind of tied on this issue. ⁓ Personally, it took me a really long time to come around to this repatriation, but I now firmly believe that we are better off having these people here in Australia, mothers and children together under the watchful eye of our own authorities than the potential other situation which some countries have chosen to do, which is repatriate children but keep their parents abroad. I think it's difficult to comprehend. ⁓ There is a lot of complexity that comes with it but I firmly believe we're better off with them here than we would be with them anywhere else.

Annie: Yeah, I think I have to agree to that on an emotional level. think where I find it difficult to reconcile with the Australian government is just how many times their position has seemingly changed on all of this. What I found really interesting is there was this Sydney doctor at the center of this story who's come under fire a lot this week. You may not have heard of him. His name is Dr. Jamal Riffey and he's been advocating for this group's return for many years. He actually flew over to Syria. himself to help them get their travel documents sorted and to make sure that they actually ended up on a plane. What makes this political is that he's actually a close friend and supporter of Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke. There was actually this video that emerged of him at Berks Federal Election Party last year in May with the minister's initials spray painted on his head dancing in a Labour shirt. So the opposition has obviously been really quick to pick this apart. But here you have a situation where the Home Affairs Minister is trying to distance himself from this story and say, we're not here to help, we're not here to hinder. But the very person who's ushering these women back is someone who appears to be a close ally.

Jodi: Yeah, he's got a man on the inside. It kind of brings me to the next question, which is like, where do we go from here? It's been widely reported that monitoring a single high risk individual, that would be just one of these women alone, could cost the taxpayer up to $2 million and involve the participation in the efforts of up to 300 police officers a year. So while I said we're better off having them here on home soil, we need to understand the consequences

Annie: I'm

Jodi: and the cost of a decision like this. We know those who are arrested will also face court. We have to look at the costs of public prosecutions, potential use of legal aid services, and keeping people incarcerated is incredibly expensive also. No doubt if the mothers are taken into custody, the children then become wardens of the state throughout that process. The New South Wales Police confirmed this week that child protection agencies will step in straight away. There's so much to consider here and you can kind of understand just from a financial point of view why no one in Canberra was really willing to put their neck out and say that this was the right thing to do.

Annie: you The last thing they're going to want to do, because we know there's going to be so many questions over the coming days, particularly when it comes down to the cost of all of this. And here's what makes that conversation even harder, is there's still 21 more of this cohort still in Syria. This is just the first wave of the 34. So the opposition has already flagged that this Sydney doctor, who I mentioned earlier, is already working on a plan to get the rest home. everything we're talking about tonight, the arrests, the kids, the costs, the political football and blame game, I just have no doubt that this is a conversation that we are going to be having over and over and over again over the coming weeks. ASIO has said that the threat level here in Australia will remain unchanged. The AFP says that they're sort of standing by ready to act where they need to, but that in itself costs money. yeah, it just, I think, It's very convenient for Anthony Albanese and Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke to sort of stand back and say that, you know, we had nothing to do with all of this. But yeah, there's clearly a big cost involved here and one that can't be avoided.

Jodi: Yeah, yeah, it can't be avoided. And this is also an issue that I think will stick to this government like glue. This is seven months after Australia's deadliest terror attack. And we've now repatriated 13 women and children coming from what was war-torn ISIS-controlled Syria. The Albanese government spent a really long time trying to distance itself from this issue, saying it wanted nothing to do with it. And yet on the Labour government's watch, these people have arrived back. So however you feel about this issue,

Annie: I'm gonna...

Jodi: I don't think any Australian is going to be able to divorce this government from what's taken place. It will certainly be about how these women and children are integrated or not integrated back into Australian society that dictates whether or not the government can survive this.

Annie: Yeah, a lot more to come on all of this and we'll make sure to stay across it. I want to move though to our next story, which is one that Jodie and I simply cannot get enough of. It centres around crocodile wrangler and Netflix star Matt Wright and his, I think it's fair to say his dramatic fall from grace over the last few years. was actually just, memories popping up in my head as we were pulling this story together because I actually flew to Darwin to cover his arrest back in 2022 and it felt like the most frantic trip at the time and even then I don't think anyone could have foreseen what was coming.

Jodi: No, so Matt Wright's been behind bars since December of last year. He copped another blow though, very recently, just this week, when he was knocked back after he applied for seven day early release. It means that he will miss birth of his third child. His wife, Kaya, is actually now overdue in her pregnancy.

Annie: It sounds brutal. think to understand... why this thing so much you really need to know who Matt Wright is and get a sense of him he's basically built this huge career doing genuinely like audacious and dangerous things in remote Australia and somehow making it look easy think like the modern day Steve Irwin he's the crocodile wrangler helicopter pilot tourism operator across the territory he's really built a tourism empire there basically National Geographic found him then Netflix came knocking and he's managed to build this massive international following. think his following base overseas is probably bigger than here in Australia.

Jodi: Yeah, but it kind of all unraveled back in February of 2022. To understand why Matt Wright is currently behind bars, we need to talk about the crimes he's accused and been found guilty of committing. he ran, obviously, as you said, a helicopter fleet and two of his mates were using his helicopter to snatch crocodile eggs from their nests in Arnhem Land. His best mate, Chris Willow Wilson, was hoisted from the base of a helicopter using a sling and he was the one trying to scoop up the eggs when the engine of this helicopter failed. Pilot Sebastian Robinson released the sling but unfortunately that fall just wasn't survivable and Chris Willow Wilson died instantly. Sebastian Robinson was so badly injured that he was rendered a paraplegic. Now Matt Wright wasn't even on that flight but it's about what he did afterwards that landed him behind bars. Thanks

Annie: think it was ⁓ a few after this crash took place, he was charged with two counts of attempting to pervert the course of justice. basically lied to police about the choppers fuel levels ⁓ and then visited Sebastian Robinson. ⁓ the pilot. of that chopper that day in hospital. And for context, this is a man who had just come out of a coma. He was heavily sedated. He still had tubes everywhere. And apparently Matt Wright sat at his bedside and asked him to manipulate the flight records. He also asked to go through his phone and delete things.

Jodi: Yes, and the sentencing judge didn't mince his words in discussing that conversation between the two mates in hospital. Justice Alan Blow said that Wright showed callousness in pursuing that request when Robinson had just learned that he'd never walk again. Wright went home briefly after he was found guilty of these two charges, but he was taken into custody in December and sentenced to 10 months behind bars, suspended after five months.

Annie: I mean, it shows the desperation of this situation, doesn't it? That you're going to someone's bedside and them to falsify a story for your own benefit. I think it's worth understanding what this has also cost ⁓ separate families because ⁓ guys weren't just coworkers, ⁓ and Chris Willow Wilson were genuine mates. They had a decade of friendship. They built their profiles doing outrageous things, pulling outrageous stunts side by side across the territory. And now Wilson's wife, or I should say widow, Danielle, is suing the man her husband considered one of his closest friends. She was in court every single day of that four-week trial. And she's still fighting, taking on Wright his company Hellibrook and the Civil Aviation Authority in the federal court over her husband's death. ⁓ there's still work safe charges apparently at play here and potentially a coronial inquest. After the verdict was handed down, Danielle actually gave a statement to media. She said that ⁓ it was a significant step forward, they still had a really long road ahead, which I think firmly cements where she stands in all of this.

Jodi: Yeah, part of the statement she said was that it was coming up on Father's Day at the time. This is back in September and it was the fourth Father's Day where their two little boys would be without their dad. But on the other side of this, you have Matt Wright's family and his wife, Kaya, who's been pregnant throughout this entire ordeal with the couple's third child. She has over 100,000 followers on Instagram and she's quite literally been trolled throughout this entire court proceeding, calling it hellish at times.

Annie: and

Jodi: the abuse that they've received. you'd forgiven for thinking that when Wright went to jail that all of this was over but unfortunately there was more controversy to come.

Annie: Yeah, so within, I think it was a couple of weeks of him actually getting put behind bars, he gets moved into this complex behavioural unit at Darwin Correctional Facility. This is like a specialist housing separate from the general population and what I found out this week, it's fairly luxe. It has air conditioning, there's a library, music rooms. Apparently there's like state-of-the-art gym and recreational facilities, there's also a really long wait list to get in here. the word was that his public profile got him there, while other ⁓ were sweltering in overcrowded conditions without any running water.

Jodi: Well when this transfer happened, the Department of Corrections gave absolutely no comment. They basically just said that all prisoners are housed accordingly and appropriately. But as you've sort of mentioned, understandably people were furious. What I find interesting is that while his public profile is alleged to have helped him get into a more cushy or luxurious, if you can call it that, area of the prison, now he's been knocked back from seven day early release and people are saying that's also because of his high profiles, so it seems somewhat hypocritical or contradictory.

Annie: and if we get into the legal aspect of it all, so under the Northern Territory ⁓ Services Act, the Commissioner ⁓ the discretion to release a prisoner up to seven days before their formal release date. ⁓ apparently cleared that he was, you know, an A standard prisoner. He applied for the seven day early release to be home for the birth of his son. ⁓ then he gets knocked back. And then we find out this isn't the first time he's been knocked back. This is the third time that he's basically been blocked from some form of early release. The two before that were for home detention. He was apparently formally approved, had his household inspected. He even had an ankle monitor booked in and then that was pulled at the 11th hour with very little explanation.

Jodi: think what's really clear here is that Matt Wright is being made an example of. Throughout the trial, we heard that things like tampering with the fuel meter in helicopters and changing flight records were actually very common practices in the Northern Territory. So Matt Wright isn't the only person who's believed to have been done this, but I really believe because of his profile, he's being made an example of. And I think that's what you see here as well with the denial of his seven day early release. For whatever reason, the commission has gone not Let's throw the book at him. you know, ironically, it's by all accounts, he's said to have been a model prisoner. Like I'm not showing empathy for him, but I'm just saying in the grand scheme of things, what is seven days if somebody has done the time is legally eligible to apply for this and has on compassionate grounds proven that that release would would really benefit them and their family? Like, why not just give him seven days?

Annie: Yeah, so I'm on the flip side of this. I feel like I'm not entirely in his corner because I feel like this is a man who, you know, sat in a hospital and basically tried to convince someone who'd woken up from a coma that he needed to change his story. And he was found guilty in the courts of that. ⁓ I just think there's a real precedent question here too. Prisoners have babies every single day in this country. If you spend just a couple of days sitting in ⁓ a magistrate's court, you will hear ⁓ many different case studies of this. ⁓ I feel like ⁓ they clearly made decision to conceive ⁓ knowing that were heading into a criminal trial knowing what was on the line. ⁓

Jodi: Interesting. mean, the other thing you hear weighed up in courts a lot is how much of a risk is someone of reoffending? Have they shown remorse? Have they done their time? What kind of behavior did they exhibit in jail? you if you go off what we're reading, he behaved well in prison. I can't speak to his likelihood to reoffend, quote unquote, but, ⁓ you know, it actually comes down to whether or not he's considered a risk. And I guess that's up for the commissioner to decide.

Annie: Okay. Well, moving from one moral question, can I say to yet another moral question? It works.

Jodi: Sorry, what a segue, incredibly different morals, but yeah, please go Wright ahead.

Annie: ⁓ I want to take you to my native state, Queensland, because the government there is dealing with a crisis of the heart. Don't mind the pun. This will all make sense very soon. Two of Premier David Crisafulli's ministers have been caught in a relationship drama that has played out so messily, so publicly, and in front of the media, also in front of Parliament. Very awkward, extremely embarrassing, and what started as a personal story has become a really serious question about ministerial conduct.

Jodi: Yes, and about what should remain private and what is in the public interest, I guess. We're talking about sport and racing minister Tim Manda and child safety minister Amanda Kam. Now let's talk about Tim for a second. He was by all accounts happily married to his wife for 44 years. A father of four children, he was also named Father of the Year in Queensland in 2005. But... ⁓ just how these two colleagues turned to lovers and more importantly the decisions that they made while their relationship was still secret have really come under the microscope this week.

Annie: I just have to laugh for a second because I feel like when any scandal happens we love to dig up things that have happened like 10 years earlier. Like the Queensland flower of the year. It's just not going down well now.

Jodi: Nothing is sacred. In the age of the internet, nothing is sacred. You should know that by now.

Annie: No, but let's get down to the important facts here and that really is the timeline in this story because the pair say this affair began in June 2023 while both of them were married to other people. They say the affair ended almost a year later. Then stick with me, six months after they allegedly separated, they were both then sworn in as ministers in Premier David Crisafulli new LNP government. So this has all happened in the background. The relationship then resumed seven months into the job, on again, off again, on again, off again. But then they didn't officially disclose it to cabinet for a number of weeks.

Jodi: Sounds like the clincher, but wait, there's more. What happened two weeks before they disclosed their relationship is really what has a lot of people asking some very serious questions. Tim Mander's sister-in-law wrote a letter directly to the Premier's office telling him about the alleged affair and claiming that they'd been seeing each other in secret for two years. Two weeks after that letter landed, as you said, the pair made their disclosures.

Annie: out.

Jodi: Suddenly they'd followed all of the right parliamentary processes and channels. The other question that's hanging over this entire timeline is when Mander met with the integrity commissioner back in late 2024, as all incoming ministers to cabinet do, he won't say whether he disclosed this privately during that meeting then or not.

Annie: if you look at the ministerial code of conduct, it actually requires ministers to declare personal relationships that ⁓ create a conflict of interest. It opens with a message ⁓ the Premier himself promising to hold ministers to account not just on performance but on standards of behaviour. Now, Mander says he sought all the right advice from the integrity commissioner, made all necessary declarations, got the green light there. But the timing just raises some very real questions. It's all a bit shady.

Jodi: Yeah, well, you might, you know, listeners might rightly be asking like, surely what you choose to do in your private time and who you choose to do in your private time arguably should remain private. But it sort of moves when you're in public office from this uncomfortable personal story to a genuine integrity issue. When you look at the decisions that they made while in government, but while the relationship was still a secret. So ⁓

Annie: I'm going to Thank

Jodi: You know, as Olympics minister, Tim Mander agreed to move the 2032 Brisbane Olympics sailing competition events from one electorate to the Whitsundays, which is Amanda Camm's own electorate. Then in the 2025-26 state budget, Manda's sports department committed $50,000 to a surf life saving club. also in Cam's electorate and you can now naturally understand why people are saying, well, hang on a minute, did you do that because it was what was generally required or is that because you had her in your ear?

Annie: Yeah, it just sounds very close for there not to be like any personal invested interest here, but it also runs the other way too because in the same budget, Amanda Camm's family's department directed a 3.1 million capital grant build new facilities for the Dixon Men's Shed in Manders Everton electorate. So now individually, you could argue that any of decisions just happened on merit, that it was the right location, ⁓ right community group. But think when you combine it together, it really paints a picture that's hard to look at this with ⁓ a face ⁓ and not leaving you questioning how this all unfolded. ⁓

Jodi: And this is exactly why there exists a ministerial code of conduct. Because when ministers are in an undisclosed relationship and then make state decisions, it has the potential to seem like those decisions were compromised. The key word is potential, Wright? It's all about the optics. We'll never know about the reasons why those decisions were made. just plants a seed of doubt in the public's mind. And I think that's why it's so dangerous. To be fair to both ministers, they've both said that they played no part in that Olympic sailing decision. Tim Mander said he had no part in it and the Premier has backed him up saying it was a decision made by the Games Independent Infrastructure and Coordination Authority along with the Deputy Premier. Geez, that's a really big mouthful. But neither minister would say whether they declared a perceived conflict of interest

Annie: Thank

Jodi: when that decision came before cabinet. See, that's the other thing. When the decision came before their colleagues, they actually could have said, look, I do have a conflict of interest, but neither of them will say whether they did that.

Annie: They chose to be sheepish. think they're just not going to live this down anytime soon. I mean, you have the opposition leader Cameron Dick calling them the Ross and Rachel of Queensland. I think there's going to be so many more labels and I want to make this clear from the outset. I do not condone marital affairs, but I have to say they are not the first people I would say in parliament to cheat on their partners and they won't be the last. But if you're, think it's just worth Pulling this apart though, because if you or I started a secret relationship with a colleague while married and then made financial decisions that directly benefited these particular individuals, we'd be bloody out the door. There'd be no way we'd be sticking around in the same job. Somehow when you're a minister, rules seem to bend or work differently. And I think what really gets me here is that they didn't come forward themselves. It took Mander's own sister-in-law. ⁓ writing to the premier David Crisafulli to the lid on it. Like you can't even imagine the personal ⁓ dilemma that ⁓ like in a person. It must have been reaching boiling point in that household. ⁓ I don't know if I'm being too straightforward about this, but you got caught. Just own up to it.

Jodi: did read, which I found fascinating, Tim, Manda's sister-in-law, claims that she didn't seek the permission or approval of her sister. before going to the premier about her brother-in-law's alleged affairs. So I don't know if that's a decision I would make without my sister's permission, each to their own. But just to correct you on something, you claimed that you think there's sort of a double standard, if you like, that state government ministers are able to keep their jobs despite engaging in an extramarital affair, but you know, the everyday man like you and I would lose our jobs. What about Gladys?

Annie: Mmm, true, true.

Jodi: Yeah, so she was obviously the premier of New South Wales, also a liberal politician like these two up in Queensland. She was forced to stand down after the corruption watchdog announced that it was investigating her secret relationship with Wagga Wagga MP Daryl Maguire. And ultimately, after that IBAQ investigation ran its course, it found that she engaged in serious corrupt conduct, allowing $5.5 million worth of grants that Maguire had personally lobbied her for to go through. she never disclosed the relationship with Maguire, she gave all kinds of reasons about why she kept it private, but old Gladys lost her job thanks to her bedroom antics.

Annie: from. and Yeah, she did pay a huge price and I have to say I've kind of been caught out here because I actually felt really sorry for her at the time. So, that just shows how two-sided I am. But I think it's worth coming back to David Crisafulli because he's really the center of all of this and he's under intense pressure to detail what he knew and when he knew it. He spent weeks refusing to hold a press conference, refusing to face the media in Brisbane after that letter did become public he's now saying he was only made aware of all of this when the pair formally disclosed their relationship to cabinet in July last year. then you have journalists reporting in the last 24 hours that this was an open secret in the Liberal Party as far back as February 2022. So I don't know which which way is it?

Jodi: Also, the question of whether or not these two politicians should lose their jobs, which I imagine is what most fair minded Australians and certainly Queenslanders are asking themselves, in my view is actually kind of two separate questions. The first is, did they as independent ministers breach that ministerial code of conduct? Were they in breach? Simple question. The second is, does the Premier have a case to answer about what he knew? You know, the phrase the fish rots from their heads certainly stands here as leader of the party and leader of the state. At what point does he need to, you know, take accountability for something like this unfolding? Because if he was warned in December 2023 and did nothing, that's a very different story to the one that he's telling the media currently. This week, under mounting pressure, both ministers finally faced the media, albeit separately, of course, and they basically said that they advice that they received from the integrity commissioner and explained what they say they were told to do. It was an incredibly significant moment but I think for many people it was, dare I say it, a little too little too late.

Annie: Yeah. Yeah, it was almost like they were backed into a corner and this is what they were forced to do as opposed to just. fronting up and electing to deliver the information that Queensland probably deserves to know. It is worth noting that an integrity expert has already called on Queensland's corruption watchdog to investigate all of this. We don't really know where that will go, how long it will take, but we do know that a code of conduct was signed off by this Premier promising to hold his ministers accountable ⁓ that's now being tested in the most public way possible and there's so many opinions on this one. So far the accountability, I don't know, it seems like it's been nowhere near as swift as the spin but like all good stories there will be plenty more iterations of this one to come. It's been a jam-packed episode so we hope you feel covered with the week's biggest news.

Jodi: as always, thank you so much for tuning in week in and week out. If you like what you have in your ears currently, please follow us on Spotify or Apple podcasts and we'll see you next week.