Annie Pullar: Welcome to covered a podcast that helps you figure out what the hell is happening in the news and how you feel about it. Jodi Lee: Here to guide you through the biggest stories of the last week, we are your hosts. I am Jodie Lee, and this is Annie Puller. Annie Pullar: On this week's episode, we dive into... Jodi Lee: The unrest, looting, and rioting that's unfolded across France and now looks to be spreading more broadly across Europe. Annie Pullar: Also, a grilling in Canberra over breastfeeding, the protections written and designed for mothers should extend to biological men. Jodi Lee: And it's been a week of highs and lows for the Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle. She's landed a very flash new TV gig here in Australia, but at the very same time, her father is facing shock new abuse allegations. But before we get into those stories, let's take a look at our honourable mentions for the week. These are the stories that don't quite warrant a deep dive, but are still worth getting across. Annie Pullar: Yes, our first Honourable Mention this week, 43-year-old Brendan Nugent, that is the man accused of running down Victorian MP Helen Haynes, has apparently declared it was an accident and he acted in a state of panic. the 65-year-old was allegedly struck several times by Nugent's full drive and pinned against her car outside her electorate office in Wangaratta last week. Two anonymous sources have now apparently told the Victorian newspaper The A.J. that he denies holding any kind of grudge against her and he apparently previously voted for her. Haynes remains in hospital having had two legs amputated as a result of that incident. Jodi Lee: Still incredibly shocking news to hear. But moving to the Middle East, and Israelis have headed to the polls for the very first time since the October 7 terrorist attack and the war in Gaza unfolded. This election, however, has been left in a kind of deadlock. Current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his bloc haven't won enough seats to form a majority government, but neither has the opposition party. It means that either of them will need to work with the Arab parties to form a coalition and a majority. government, but that could still take some time. In Israel parliament is called the Knesset and 61 seats are required to officially rule and hold office. Annie Pullar: Well we won't be holding our breath for that election result. But finally, you are sick of hearing about mushroom murderer Erin Patterson, well sorry we have more news for you. You might remember on a previous episode we told you she was getting given ozempic behind bars. Now it appears she's getting more of a glow up than what we initially thought. Paramount Plus has announced a new six part TV series titled Mushroom Murderers. There's more to unearth. And apparently it's based on The fatal lunch that killed three of her former husband's family members. The actress, the Hollywood actress we should say, has already been named to play Erin Patterson. That is Emmy nominated Kiwi Melanie Linsky. She has won the part, no doubt a competitive casting process. And audiences will probably know her from TV shows like Yellow Jackets, which I'm currently hooked on, and movies like also Coyote Ugly. I have to say she's played a few psychological thriller type roles. So this fits the brief, I reckon. Jodi Lee: So it's right up her alley. Annie Pullar: Moving to our first story and I want to start in Europe. You have no doubt probably seen the horrific images coming out of the French capital Paris over the last couple of weeks. We have seen incredibly violent clashes between police and protesters, businesses destroyed, also high-end stores looted with stock kind of strewn across the streets. But it's important to note this unrest isn't just playing out in France, it's kind of spilling across Europe from Spain to Portugal, Italy, Greece and Germany. And I think depending on who you listen to, this is either the start of a major uprising and a reckoning or it's very timely and it's political pressure, almost this campaign mounting ahead of a huge year of election cycles across Europe. Maybe it's all of the above. But I think Jody France is probably a good place to start because what sparked this sort of wave of violence is very different to, how we've ended up now. Jodi Lee: Yeah, because I think the easy question or the most obvious question here is why are they rioting? What are they angry about? And the truth is there isn't any one single, simple answer to that question. It started as a student protest. So students, their parents, even teachers and the teachers union taking to the streets, marching against teacher shortages, classroom conditions, crumbling buildings in schools. So I guess you could say that's a really noble cause. And that was the start of it. But the reality was that's where they started in September. But by the start of October, things had really ballooned and escalated. And some are now claiming that the student protest movement has been hijacked by a number of other causes. If you look at the pictures, there are symbols and representations of a number of different groups, of far-left groups in France, of general anarchists who just want to see the entire system torn down. There are pro-Palestinian symbols. and Palestinian flags in amongst some of the chaos. So it's very difficult to pinpoint these marches and rallies to one single fight or cause. Annie Pullar: Yeah, and I think you make an important distinction They had every right to take to the streets and, you know, raise their voices about the education system that they said really wasn't up to scratch. that kind of opened the floodgates for this smorgasbord of agendas. think one thing is clear from all of this is that France's problems go far beyond schools and the education system. mean, having lived in Paris for a year, and I think I can confidently say this, the country is quite frankly ungovernable. And I don't say that to have a crack at the French. I admire their resistance to things. I admire that they get up and get loud about the issues that they're passionate about. But this comes at a time where the economy is completely shot. The country is pretty much broke. More than half of France's entire economy is government spending. So pensions are a really big part of that. Here, as most of us know, part of your pay goes straight into your superannuation account. And that's what you live off when you But in France, it's a very different system. There's essentially no pot of money waiting for you. What's taken out of workers pay today goes straight to today's retirees. So when people are living longer and there's not as many people working, the system's kind of starting to run dry. Jodi Lee: Yeah, and there are other issues at play here too. So it's not only the economy that's crumbling. You spoke about mass migration. The other thing is that Emmanuel Macron is at the center of this, the French president. So he was elected in 2017. A year later, there were riots over there were other riots that broke out. You might remember the Yellow Vest marches. And ever since then, his entire presidency has been marred by protests. Now, protesting it's a decidedly French pastime. they're almost a socialist country. And so fighting for your rights, you know, equality and your freedom, liberty is a part of the French way. I think that what we've seen here though has, you know, regardless of who you ask, it's undeniable that these riots and protests have got out of hand. What's interesting is that France will now shortly go to the polls. Emmanuel Macron can't be re-elected again. He's now served two terms since he was first elected, as I said, in 2017. So what this is doing, as we've discussed on the podcast many a time now, is sort of opening the floodgates for a new kind of leader in France. And the one person who is emerging as the frontrunner after the shitstorm that Emmanuel Macron has presided over, is Marine Le Pen, who is a far-right leader. So we've spoken about this. Annie Pullar: Mm-hmm. Jodi Lee: similar phenomenon happening in Hungary. We've talked about the rise of one nation here in Australia. You only have to look to the US and Donald Trump's Republican government. And now the question is could the same thing shortly happen in France as a result of this kind of wave of protests. Annie Pullar: Yeah, and it's really given the far right ammunition. know, Marine Le Pen has already come out and she's shielding herself as the savior of France, vowing to restore law and order in the country. It's a very convenient time to capitalize when you have a country essentially burning to the ground. You know, there was a town hall that survived two world wars set on fire. It doesn't exist anymore. So it's a very convenient time to be able to leverage off the anger. of a country and particularly young people who feel so disenfranchised by the system. But I think that the other broader context of this, and as I mentioned off the top, this isn't just France. This is becoming a broader European story because there is sort of a common thread among the protesters that we are seeing. Largely they are Gen Z. They are young people and they're people that are taking to the streets that feel like they're locked out of the housing market. They feel like they can't find employment. They're watching generational wealth, lock them out of a life that their parents once had and they feel like there's no hope left. You know, if you look at Spain and Portugal, housing is currently the number one issue and you might remember Jodie, but there was that elderly Spanish woman who was evicted from her long time home after an enormous rent increase. I think it was like over 200%. She died shortly after and that sort of become the symbol of the crisis there. Jodi Lee: Yeah, but it's not just Spain. As you said, it's Greece, it's Belgium, it's Germany, it's France. we talked on the podcast about Ceuta, the Spanish enclave in Morocco. it's obviously n bordering Morocco, I should say, it's not necessarily mainland Europe, but that was a lot of young people that were fleeing, that were jumping over the border trying to sort of find a better life. So there's clearly this glob this sort of almost global unrest that starts with young people and has clearly been hijacked. There was an interesting comment by this man, Gordon Sondland, who was a former US ambassador to the European Union. But I found this really interesting. It's a uniquely American take, so maybe take it with a grain of salt, but it's just an interesting way to think about it. He wrote this week that Europe has become better at protecting what already exists than creating new opportunities. And he blamed regulation and bureaucracy for this. So He's basically saying that Europe has always stood for the same things, it's always protected the same establishments, and rather than looking to the future and and trying to plan for and strategize for how it will evolve and create new opportunities, it's stuck in the past. Annie Pullar: Yeah, well, all you have to do is look Jodi Lee: Depend. Annie Pullar: at France to see that it owes apparently a record 3.6 trillion euros. That's more than its entire economy produces in a year. So how is it sort of diverting spending to areas like education, defense, health, when most of its money is going back to paying the debt? but if you look at here in Australia, no surprise, One Nation leader Pauline Hansen has been sort of using the footage to warn that similar riots could play out on our streets across the country if we continue with mass migration. Very convenient. Yes. Jodi Lee: Again, super convenient. super convenient politically, right? it just we they they walked us straight into that one. Annie Pullar: it is convenient, think she's also tapping into something that's quite a distant reality here. I don't see anarchy like that playing out on the streets of Australia. We're all too compliant for that to happen, quite frankly. Jodi Lee: Do you not remember COVID? Annie Pullar: Yeah, but we weren't setting bloody town halls on fire and looting Louis Vuitton in Burberry. Jodi Lee: Shit. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I just Yeah, it's it's a sobering thought to wonder whether if you believe the polls, Annie Pullar: Hmm. Jodi Lee: you know, Australia is being swept by this orange wave of one nation supporters. You only have to read the comments in the newspaper each and every day to see people that were staunch Labour and Liberal voters saying that next election they're shifting to Pauline Hansen's One Nation. So we are trending in the same political direction as a number of these European countries. So it's it's frightening. to think that we could follow in these footsteps too. Annie Pullar: Yeah, but I think with the migration discussion we also have to talk about integration because they work hand in hand if we go to the the rioters in France whether they are migrants whether they do come from radicalized background a lot of them did grow up in France. They could be the children of migrants. So at what point like why haven't they been out but it assimilate or integrate into that culture and I think it's a question that's going to obviously dominate the election when that comes in in six months. time. Authorities haven't sort of given a breakdown of who's been arrested but the fact is most are teenagers. So I think integration is a fair debate to be having now. Jodi Lee: Authorities I also saw really recently are warning people to protect themselves. So if they're unable Annie Pullar: Mm. Jodi Lee: to protect their own population, you've got to wonder, How much worse it could really get. But why don't we shift to our story a little bit closer to home and head to Canberra, where there's been, if you thought that was fiery, there's been an extraordinary exchange in Senate estimates about the rights of breastfeeding women. So Senate estimates is essentially where politicians grill government officials about their decisions and spending and what's happening behind the scenes. Now, this week, Australia's sex discrimination commissioner, Dr. Anna Cody, was asked whether laws protecting breastfeeding women also protect someone born male who then identifies as a woman and experiences medically induced lactation. Maybe Let's take a listen first before we discuss any more. Annie Pullar: I'm sorry, but you can actually see the kind of clogs turning in her head when she was asked that question, but then she obviously answers that quite confidently. Jodi Lee: I just find this astounding. There is so much to unpack here. First of all, and call me naive. I had no idea that even in a biological man, that medicine could induce Annie Pullar: Mm. Jodi Lee: lactation. That was the first thing I learned this week. I think it's probably worth going back to what the breastfeeding Laws are and why they were implemented before we then dissect how we feel about this, because I'm feeling a lot of feelings. Annie Pullar: Yes, yes, we'll get to that soon. If we rewind, so breastfeeding protections were basically introduced into federal discrimination law way back in 2003 and that was to stop women from being treated unfairly, in the workplace, in public because they were breastfeeding. It was affording them the protection to be able to be a mother as they should be. So those protections were strengthened in 2011 and the law specifically then referred to women. Then If we fast forward a couple of years to 2013 under Julia Gillard's Labor government, separate protections against discrimination based on, and I quote, gender identity were added. And it's the way that those laws now interact at the center of this controversy. Jodi Lee: Okay, so put aside the laws for a second and let's go to my dismay at the medical kind of detail here, because it is, as you said, possible. So it's basically through a combination of hormone treatments, medication, and stimulate, like physical stimulation, that someone born male can potentially induce lactation. And produce some kind of milk, but it's not necessarily medically known what the makeup of that substance or milk is and how it would or wouldn't benefit an infant child. So we're talking about a medically induced process. It's different, very different to female lactation that happens after a pregnancy. And there are still very much gaps in the research. So it's technically possible, but no one's saying it's easy. or viable or the same as, but it is technically possible. Annie Pullar: Yeah, and I think it's worth noting prior to answering that question in Senate estimates, apparently Dr. Anna Cody received advice, shall we say, from a communications consultant because she knew and the government knew Jodi Lee: Well shape. Annie Pullar: that this was going to cause an absolute uproar. But I think if we take a step back for a minute and accept what she's saying, how does that actually apply to everyday life? Like, example, the workplace. Jodi Lee: Exactly. Yes. So if you're egg well, that's what this is about. So discrimination is essentially about whether or not it's about it's about ev the everyday application of the human rights law. So let's say you're Annie Pullar: Mm. Jodi Lee: a small business owner, because a woman's right to breastfeed is enshrined in law, you have to provide an opportunity for your female staffer to breastfeed their child at work. Does this now also mean, given what Anna Cody has told Senate estimates, that a business owner could be held responsible for refusing a man who asks for Annie Pullar: Yeah. Jodi Lee: breastfeeding time? Like, why are we treating breastfeeding like a smoko? Annie Pullar: Well, you're not the only one asking that question. The coalition leader in the Senate, Mikaela Akash, actually went... Yes, well, Jodi Lee: yeah, me and McKelly at Cash Nice. Annie Pullar: she went on 2GB and I'm just going to let you hear it. It's just an absolute hotbed and you have to feel for small businesses as if they haven't already been through enough this year. Now they're left in this gray area. how, how do you, how does one know how to navigate a situation like this? Jodi Lee: Well, this is actually exactly like Tickle versus Giggle, which we've never discussed on the podcast, but this was a landmark case in Australia where this woman, basically Sal Grover, built a an app for f for women only. And she was sued by a man who had transitioned to a woman who wanted to gain access to this app but was rejected. The court basically found that she was wrong to reject this transgender woman and it has been upheld in higher courts. So it's bak people are basically saying it's now a kind of precedent for these kinds of gender-based discussions and legal fights. Annie Pullar: Yeah, and I'm pretty sure she has to pay significant damages now. it's really hard to weigh in on this because I feel like whatever I say is going to be criticised and it's going to be controversial. But for me, I think this whole discussion sets an incredibly dangerous precedent. I just have so many questions, even starting with the medical evidence. What do we actually know about the safety of induced lactation for babies? I have absolutely no problem with people doing whatever they wish to do with their bodies. They have the power, make decisions accordingly. No judgment there. But for me, this comes back to breastfeeding. That is something that women, have fought so hard to protect in the workplace, in life. I mean, just just think that now the very fact that biological differences behind those protections are being called into question just defies common sense. just, I'm just honestly dumbfounded by it all. we so determined to make every policy inclusive that we're losing the ability to actually, you know, determine meaningful biological differences? Like where does the line stop? I don't understand. Jodi Lee: 100%. The other question for me is, and you touched on it, just let's take it back to its core. What is breastfeeding about? Now, Annie Pullar: Mm. Jodi Lee: I've obviously don't have a child yet, and I've never breastfed, and there are a myriad ways to feed a child, and fed is best. I firmly believe that. And not every woman who does give birth to a child is able to breastfeed, and let's acknowledge how difficult that journey can be for many women. But at its core, breastfeeding, when you when it is sort of able to be achieved and is successful. is about nourishing a human. It's about feeding a baby. So if a biological male is unable to technically speaking nourish and feed a human baby, why are they being afforded the right to have that breastfeeding process protected? It's like facts feelings aren't facts. Just because you feel like you can breastfeed doesn't mean that you can. And I'm not Annie Pullar: Yeah, it comes. Jodi Lee: denying your right to identify as a woman. But can you breastfeed? Yes or no. Can you nourish a baby from your breast? Yes or no. And if it's no, then why are we trying to enshrine your right in the law? Annie Pullar: Well, it's actually astounding because this isn't just an argument playing out in Senate estimates. The same discussion has actually erupted in New South Wales Parliament in the last week. Apparently a breastfeeding policy was updated with gender neutral language, removing references to mothers and women. Now, New South Wales opposition leader Kelly Sloan took to social media and I think she summed it up really well. Jodi Lee: it's actually true that it is only a woman who can who can carry and birth a child. Now that doesn't mean that every woman can do that. There are women who can't for whatever reason. That includes women who might have been born as men and transitioned. You're still very much a woman. But again, if you can't breastfeed, because you're a man. Then the language should not reflect that. Annie Pullar: Well, interestingly, it didn't take long for the Premier of New South Wales, means to start backpedaling. He apparently came out and called the terminology strange and basically went back to restoring references to mothers. But federally, there's still a very big question hanging over the government because we still don't really know where Anthony Albanese stands on all of this because we haven't heard from him. Jodi Lee: Yeah, and the question is, does the government believe that Parliament intended breastfeeding protections to be extended in this way? Are they supposed to be all encompassing? But I feel like we'll have to wait and see this one unfold and see where it lands. But let's move to our very third and final story for this week's episode. Meghan Markle is coming back to Australia, the Duchess of Sussex. We love to hate her. This time she's bringing a kitchen apron and hopefully she has a tax file number because she is now going to be a work. Working member of society as a what do you call it? A judge, a co-host on Junior MasterChef Australia on Network 10. Annie Pullar: Yes, the reality TV star just clearly couldn't get enough. mean, she's only just moved to the UK and she's already packing the bags, but this booking isn't exactly random. So during that four day trip with Harry back in April, Megan dropped in as a guest judge on MasterChef Australia. You might remember, I think she spoke about how her children forage for food in their garden. It's all very wholesome. That episode apparently pulled the show's biggest Sunday audience since 2023. So it's no surprise. the network has her back this is very clearly a ratings play. Jodi Lee: Well, it's a ratings play by Channel Ten and also a play by Megan to earn some cash. we know that her and Carrie Annie Pullar: Mm. Jodi Lee: Are desperate for a job. We know they're not making any money from the royal family. They've had to pay for their own security. Her Netflix contract ended, their podcast dried up. So she's looking for a gig. And obviously she's come to Australia because we're happy to hand her one. The interesting point about Annie Pullar: you Jodi Lee: security, though, is that since Channel 10 made this announcement this week, the security debate has well and truly fired up. When Harry and Megan were here during April, we covered it on the podcast, there was absolute outcries about. Who would be covering their security? The palace was very insistent that they hadn't asked the Australian public to fork out. But New South Wales police at the time, they visited both Melbourne and Sydney. New South Wales police at the time acknowledged that they had to kind of enact some kind of operation because it was going to impact the public. So There was a petition that more than 40,000 people have signed, basically saying we do not want to pay for this. MasterChef films in Melbourne and Victoria goes to the polls next month in November. So both the Premier Ben Carroll and opposition leader Jess Wilson were very quick to say that under both of their governments, after the election, not a single Victorian dollar would be spent protecting the Duchess. Annie Pullar: let's hold them to that. I mean, it's no surprise New South Wales had to enact some sort of protection because as we know, when Meghan and Harry turn out, they're very much in the public domain. No doubt they have many threats against them made on a daily basis, but it certainly did raise eyebrows. I think the interesting question to ask this trip is will Harry and the kids be joining her? Because I think that really changes the security picture of this new, you know, Megan in Australia down under vibe. Jodi Lee: Yeah, because if it's just her going from her palatial mansion in Turak to the set every day, surely Channel Ten covers that like they would any like Annie Pullar: Yeah. Jodi Lee: n Nigella Lawson is a guest judge on Master Chef. Surely she has some kind of production funded security. Annie Pullar: Also, am I being naive? arguably, she is a big deal. I'm not taking that away from her. She's controversial and, as you said, we love to hate her. like, does it really warrant full Victorian police protection? am I being unreachable? Jodi Lee: I think we are un I feel like we are unmoved by her, but I think there are unmoved in in the sense that it doesn't ignite fury within us that would Annie Pullar: Mmm. Jodi Lee: warrant a threat to her safety, thankfully. But you've gotta you've gotta appreciate that someone with a profile like that who has, upended the firm, she Annie Pullar: Mmm. Jodi Lee: essentially has been seen by the world to have snatched, you know, the beloved Princess Diana's son away from his family and away from the crown. I dunno, I reckon there's some people that are pretty upset about it. Annie Pullar: Yeah. No, she has given a big finger to the establishment. But I think what's also interesting is that her return has largely also been overshadowed by news of a far more serious nature. Over the weekend, this headline broke about Megan's half brother, Thomas Markle Jr. He apparently reported their father to police in the Philippines, alleging that he found child sexual abuse images on his dad's phone and computers at his former home in the Philippines. So to be really clear these are still allegations. The 82 year old hasn't been charged. He has come out and flat out denied them telling the Daily Mail that he's really upset by the whole ordeal. He claims that these computers haven't even been in his possession since he left Mexico last year. Jodi Lee: Yeah, but the allegations are, being treated quite seriously by authorities. There's a specialist child exploitation unit in the Philippines that's investigating. police there obviously, as you said, have seized Thomas Markle Senior's computer. and the FBI has also said that it will support any investigation, given he's obviously Annie Pullar: What I find- Jodi Lee: an American citizen. Annie Pullar: Yeah, but interestingly, Megan's half sister, Samantha, came out and pretty much said that this was her stepbrother using another story as an opportunity to cash in. So it really feels like a family feud could be driving these allegations. I mean, they must be pretty serious if you have an investigation underway. But we have heard from the Duchess, she released a statement and she said that she's deeply distressed. Her thoughts are with any who may have been harmed. And I think the part that sort of stopped me was that she says a letter making these troubling allegations about her father was actually sent to London's Metropolitan Police and the Royal Protection Unit back in 2019 and then it was shared with her. So she says she was assured that it was being investigated. Jodi Lee: Yeah, so that was in 2019. I find this fascinating because you'll remember that Harry and Megan got married in 2018 and Annie Pullar: Mm-mm. Jodi Lee: Separate, but problems with her father had already started before the wedding. So she he was meant to walk her down the aisle, if you remember And then he is alleged to have worked with the paparazzi to have staged photographs for the press. And then she said, Look, don't come to the wedding. I don't want you to be a part of this. Then he claims he had a heart attack. And so they were sort of already estranged from before the wedding. But you're right, she has confirmed that she received this letter in 2019. It's been alleged that she cut off ties with her father last year and actually said to him, You'll never meet your grandchildren. Annie Pullar: and I'm saying this as someone who isn't a huge fan of hers, but you have to feel for her because when she was getting married... Practically leading up to that wedding, the whole thing was overshadowed by the fact that she hadn't invited her dad to her wedding. She was painted as this really cold daughter who had ostracized her family. So if these allegations are proven, you know, have to rethink how she was framed in the media. And maybe it goes to her point that, she has been treated really poorly by the press. I don't think that there's any hiding that. Jodi Lee: No. And the other thing that makes me think twice is that her brother, Thomas Markle Jr., who has allegedly gone to police with these claims, has actually come out in the press and apologized to Meghan and said I was supporting the wrong person in the family feud for the last nine years. So he very publicly sided with his father when Megan sort of distanced herself from the family. and now, in light of these, you know, alleged claims that he's made to police, he's publicly said, Megan, I was wrong about our dad, and I should have stood by you. Annie Pullar: Honestly, it feels like she really can't catch a break. Like, what's next? Jodi Lee: Well you can s I know, but you can understand what her and Harry have in common. their families are both shit storms. Annie Pullar: God, it honestly couldn't get any worse than this. they talk about, the reason they moved to the US was to be able to get away from the intense pressure of the press, that their lives were in danger. We've often spoken about how I find it really ironic that, you know, now they're hosting reality TV shows and writing tell-all books. But yes, I do feel for them and I'm interested to see where it all goes. Jodi Lee: Well, authorities are expecting forensic results imminently. They're not expected to take very long. And I think the encouraging thing to note is that the Philippines and the United States are parties to an extradition treaty. So if charges are likely to be laid and Thomas Markle Senior does have to be extradited from wherever he currently is, there's, you know, the possibility that that could take place. Annie Pullar: So in the past week she's landed a new Aussie TV gig. Victorian politicians have basically refused to build at Nobody's Sen and she's now entering yet another painful chapter of her life. Jodi Lee: Do I sense a little bit of sympathy? Annie Pullar: Listen, as we talk about this, I'm affording her some sympathy, but it might end by the time she starts hosting this new show. So we might leave it there. We hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Covered. As always, please hit subscribe where you get your podcasts. Always here to take any recommendations and we'll see you next week. Jodi Lee: Bye.