Annie Pullar: Welcome to COVID, a podcast that helps you figure out what the hell is going on in the news and how you feel about it.

Jodi Lee: Here to guide you through the biggest stories of the last week. As always, we are your hosts. I'm Jodie Lee, and this is Annie Puller.

Annie Pullar: On this week's episode we dive into

Jodi Lee: Former reality TV star Sam Wood is now facing up to six weeks behind bars over shocking domestic violence allegations with a court hearing his wife feared for her life.

Annie Pullar: Also, the disgraced Andrew Mountbatten Windsor has scored a major legal victory in court against the police who arrested him, what it could mean for the criminal investigation against him.

Jodi Lee: And US President Donald Trump has named a new conservative TV MAGA-loving woman as his latest press secretary. What does that mean? We'll break down all the details. But first, let's get to our honorable mentions. These are the stories that perhaps don't quite warrant a deep dive but are worth getting your head across.

Annie Pullar: Yes, and kicking off this week, Labour has had a bit of a week from hell with Treasurer Jim Chalmers forced to step in on a controversial decision by the Australian tax office. Now you may recall about 10 days ago, the ATO came out and announced that businesses would no longer be able to pay their tax bill by credit card, with that change coming in from December this year, saying that the card fees were costing it almost $200 million a year. Now it's worth noting that about 5% of small Businesses in this country pay their tax this way, and they often do it to actually manage their cash flow. It's the very same group that's already wearing the Reserve Bank's new ban on card surcharges, which came in at around the same time, with many now warning that having to absorb those card surcharges will force them to lift prices at the shelves. So businesses were obviously furious about this decision. Even it ignited a firestorm within Labour's own ranks. ministers unable to agree on whether the tax office was right. So basically Jim Chalmers has been forced to step in, delay the ban until the end of June next year. But it's important to note that it is just a delay, not a backflip. So we'll have to wait and see.

Jodi Lee: Our second honourable mention this week is that opposition leader Angus Taylor has been forced to defend his party's immigration policy amid claims that the Liberals are just trying to keep up with One Nation's Pauline Hansen and allegations that its policy announced during the week would actually leave industries like construction dangerously short of workers. At the moment, about 292 more people arrive in Australia than leave every year. But the federal coalition, Angus Taylor's Liberal Party, wants to pull that right back to about 100,000 people and then let it creep up to 160,000 people over four years. He's mostly targeting people on temporary visas, things like international students and short term workers. That target is actually very similar to Labour's plan, but it goes much further, although not quite as far or drastic as One Nation. Pauline Hansen's One Nation actually wants to see more people leaving the country than arriving, so a net reduction in overseas migrants for the next few years. She claims that that will drop rents right across the country by close to $3,000 a year. Opposition leader Angus Taylor is framing his immigration policy as the largest cut in history. He says this country simply can't continue to rely on what he calls a guest worker economy.

Annie Pullar: Well, another week, another migration shitstorm. But moving on to our last honorable mention, and it's been a really sad week in the Australian Defence Force, mourning one of their own, Corporal Brendan Hanum, was just 28 years old. He was a father of two, and he was killed on Monday when the troop carrier he was travelling enrolled during a training exercise south of Darwin. He had served nine years in the Australian Defence Force, including stints to Afghanistan and also Ukraine, and he's been remembered as a much loved junior leader. It's worth noting that five other soldiers were in that troop carrier when it rolled and two are still recovering in hospital. But this incident and his death is now prompting really difficult questions inside the Australian Defence Force about these training exercises because it's actually the third time in the last year a soldier has lost their life in a training accident. You might remember there was a truck rollover near Townsville last October and there was also a Parachuting collision at Jarvis Bay in May last year. So many questions still unfolding around what is happening. The army has paused use of that particular troop carrier as a pretty big investigation now begins, but our thoughts are certainly with his family. Just an awful set of circumstances.

Jodi Lee: Yeah, and every Australian who devotes their life and sacrifices themselves for our safety here. But why don't we move to our very first story of the week? No doubt you've read something about it, or certainly spoken with the people in your lives about it. most of you will know the name Sam Wood. He was the personal trainer who became The Bachelor on the reality TV series back in 2015, and he ultimately gave his final rose to a single mum from Perth by the name of Schneza. In 2018, they got married, and they've also had three daughters together since that wedding. They put forward the per the picture of a normal Australian family, and they were on a holiday in Noosa last week when Wood was charged with two domestic violence offences against his wife. He fronted court and he remains behind bars, but you were actually in court all week and following this story.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and I think I'm still shell-shocked by the allegations that were levelled in court. It's worth pointing out what those charges are. There was assault occasioning bodily harm and strangulation in a domestic setting. The Sam Wood that we saw appear in a Maruchidor magistrates' court was completely opposite to the Sam Wood Australia knows and Australia fell in love with. He was barely recognizable, he was sporting prison greens, he could barely hold his focus, uncontrollably blinking. at times he sort of was clenching his fists and had his head bowed, basically just unable to hold concentration. It was really clear that he simply wasn't coping after spending five nights behind bars. You have to remember that he had been in custody Since his arrest on Saturday night. So this is the first time that we had seen him. His dad had flown from Tasmania to be in court to support him. And his defense really did put up quite a significant fight. You know, they pointed to his mental state, saying that he had severe depression, that his mental health had been deteriorating. They used his father as his support person, saying that if he was granted bail, that he could go and live with his dad so he could help get him back on his face. But ultimately, as soon as the prosecution started to lay out its case, this all unraveled really quickly.

Jodi Lee: And I think the details of the prosecution case are incredibly Jarring and disturbing. So apologies to any listeners who might find this difficult. But these are the allegations against Sam Wood. So the court heard that the couple had been out for dinner in Noosa on the last night of their holiday, that they'd returned to their accommodation, and an argument had broken out about packing for the flight the following morning. Snejana apparently wanted to pack the bags. Sam Wood is said to have wanted to go straight to sleep, and so they began to argue. They've spilled out from a bedroom into the corridor, and that's when Snojana Snojana's daughter from a previous marriage, Sam Wood's stepdaughter, is alleged to have stepped in and said something along the lines of, stop yelling at my mum. That's when Snojana has stepped in the middle and tried to protect her daughter and separate her daughter from the argument. And police allege that Sam Wood then set upon his wife. They say that he began to strangle her, and that while maintaining hold of her. Around her neck has slammed her head into the floor. Eve, his stepdaughter and her daughter from a previous marriage is actually the one who called Triple Zero. And police have that Triple Zero recording as part of this, the evidence in this case. But I think what struck everybody the most and was perhaps the most harrowing to hear is that Snojana actually said in those moments she feared for her life.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and we're hearing it wasn't, you know, the first time that she had allegedly feared for her life. Sam Wood's stepdaughter and Snejana's daughter Eve had apparently detailed another incident that occurred back in Victoria about three to four years ago. She had told the prosecution or police after this incident unfolded that it was very similar in nature, that it involved alleged choking, that Sam Wood had apparently thrown Snejana into a wall and slammed Her face against that wall and also the floor. We learnt that police were actually called to that incident, but at the time no charges were ever laid because Snejana didn't actually proceed with a formal complaint. He denies that it ever happened. But also in court, what was quite harrowing is the prosecution said that, you know, Sam Wood's wife had pretty much been walking on eggshells around him ever since this incident, four years ago.

Jodi Lee: I mean, prosecutors don't raise a history like that or an alleged history like that for no reason. They present it to the court as evidence of what they say is an escalation of behavior. And I'm, you know, you would have also heard prosecutors tell the court that during his police interview, Sam Wood tried to minimize his actions, essentially minimize Snojana's injuries, and they actually called it victim blaming in the court, which is incredibly dangerous behavior. The fact of the matter is he's facing two years. Behind bars if he's convicted of these domestic violence charges. They're incredibly serious. And what was also taken into account is the fact that he has such a large public profile and he is so wealthy. He's a man of such means that he might be able to A, tamper with witnesses, so that means, you know, stand over them or threaten them in some way, or B, flee and never come back to the state of Queensland. So that's these were the claims that the prosecution was making Yeah.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and ultimately the magistrate agreed in favour of the prosecution's case. She called the police case very strong and she pointed to sort of a web of evidence. You know, that triple zero call from Eve Sam Wood's stepdaughter photos of Snejana's injuries, which allegedly show forehead swelling and markings to her neck, and of course that previous incident in Victoria. But it's worth sort of pointing out a bit of a distinction here around the bail laws because in Queensland, a domestic Strangulation charge actually reverses the bail conditions that are usually heard in court. So instead of police having to prove why Wood should stay locked up, he had to convince the court why he should actually be let out. And if you look at the comparison between Queensland and Victoria, where Sam Wood is from, Queensland is arguably a lot tougher on domestic violence bail than in Victoria. And some have actually suggested that had this Case been heard in his hometown back in Victoria that he might have been let out. It's sort of worth noting when that female magistrate you know did hand down her decision, there was sort of an audible gasp from journalists in the room that she had refused bail. I think it it really set a precedent that no one is above the law, that she had heard the allegations presented in court and she had determined that he was a risk and that he shouldn't be let out. So he's now sitting in Wake Hall in Brisbane. Correctional Centre. His next court date was set down for the end of November, but his lawyers are trying to reapply for his bail in a Supreme Court in Brisbane. But if that doesn't proceed, he could be facing the next six weeks behind bars.

Jodi Lee: Six weeks is insane. The reason why I think it's so fascinating that Queensland is so tough on domestic violence charges is because in Australia you are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. That's why the onus is on prosecutors in other jurisdictions to plead with the court and to make a strong case that you should be kept behind bars because it's presumed you are innocent until you're found guilty. But clearly, Queensland understands that strangulation is such a serious and dangerous charge that the onus Is then flipped. The one thing I have noticed, because I've been really deep diving a lot of the comments on this story on various publications online, and people are really angry at references to Snojana Wood as an alleged victim. And I think we need to explain why that is. That is exactly because of the same reason. Sam Wood has been charged with domestic violence offences, but he hasn't been convicted yet. That means that he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. That means that you can't call anyone involved anything other than an alleged victim because nothing has been proven by a court yet. And I know that that causes a lot of pain and angst for people, for people who might be survivors of. Of family and domestic violence for people who understandably feel incredibly empathetic towards all those involved in this situation, but it's legally speaking, she is an alleged victim until such time as one or both of these charges are potentially proven by a court.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and you've actually just made me think of an interesting point because we obviously have to adhere to really strict reporting when it comes to legal matters that are ongoing, but in a world of social media, anything can be said and done and no one is held to account. So we're living in an interesting time where news is so accessible online. But I think the most important part of this whole story is that anyone associated with Sam Wood was very quick to start distancing themselves from this fitness entrepreneur as soon as these allegations were aired. It's worth noting in back in 2022, Sam Wood sold that fitness empire that he had founded 28 by. Sam Wood for $71 million, a huge amount. He actually had agreed to stay on as CEO and really be that face and name of the brand still. And this brand was kind of never really about fitness. That was really it to its core, but it was also about self-improvement, empowerment, wellness. Really, his whole family image was wrapped up in that as well. As a devoted dad, a dad to young girls, as a husband. It was kind Kind of this whole holistic image. And then pretty much within 48 hours of this all unraveling, DGB Health, which was the company that bought this fitness program, pretty much terminated all ties with Sam Wood. They not only dropped him as the name and the face of the brand, they they pretty much terminated his entire contract. And he still had two years to go on that contract. So reports are that he's lost tens of millions of dollars. three dollars over that already.

Jodi Lee: Yeah, but put aside the money, I think you touched on something really poignant and why it sort of speaks to why this has been so difficult for so many Australians to swallow and comprehend is that the image he had curated publicly, him and his wife had curated publicly is so at odds with the image that we saw of him in court. I think people related them to them so much, not because they appeared perfect, but because they seemed to have figured out family life while still being really open about. Yeah. Hearing that it's actually so sad because

Annie Pullar: I know my eyes are like welling up. I I don't know why I'm so affected by it, but it it is just awfully sad. Like I just I'm finding it

Jodi Lee: No and it's I know, and it's easy, I think, to look at them and say they had all this money, you know, she's always dripping in beautiful jewellery, they drive fancy cars, they've got four beautiful girls, lots of photos, you know, around this stunning Kardashian-esque looking Christmas tree, you know, the rounded staircase, like they went on beautiful holidays. It's really easy to kind of look at them and think they had it figured out. But you sort of hear in an interview like that that there are, you never quite know what the inside of a relationship really looks like unless you are in it.

Annie Pullar: No, and I think, you know, we have sat in courts for many years as reporters and you hear allegations like this unfortunately all too often. But I think the reason this has struck such a chord with so many people is there is such a huge gap between the public perception of this couple and the reality. you know, we've now sort of been taken behind the curtain of lives that we really thought were seemingly quite perfect. There's still a lot to play out in this, but the fallout is just continuing and I dare say it's gonna keep unraveling. You might remember nutritionalist Tanya Monk was apparently the first to walk away from Sam Wood, ending a partnership, saying she doesn't want to attach her name to anything associated with him. We've seen Tiffany Hall, Tamman Sursok the actress. Jules Robinson who also rose to fame on maths and also Meal Brand Fox's Den basically just completely sever ties with Wood. He's also apparently lost a hundred thousand followers on social media. I think it doesn't really matter how this plays out in court. We still don't know what the outcome will be, and this will likely go on for some time. But Sam Wood faces a much bigger battle in the public court of opinion now. I I personally don't know how there's a way back for him after these allegations. Whether he whether it's proven or not, I just can't reconcile with him ever being able to build or rebuild that reputation.

Jodi Lee: I do question why people continue to follow someone. Is it just voyeurism? Like, are you just waiting to see what his next move is? Is that why people? continue to follow someone like this when something shocking like this happens to them. I don't know. I'm also not surprised by the public and corporate fallout. I think the in this day and age, companies just don't have any f they don't have any room not to move. I think it's risk management more than anything, particularly when most of their followers and customers are women. You have to you have to take a s you have to publicly take a stand. You have to say that you don't condone domestic violence, that you you know, distancing yourself from Sam Wood in order to save your own your own back, basically. I mean, the one thing that stood out for me is in his defense, his lawyer got up before the court and told the court that Sam Wood's career deserves an opportunity to salvage itself that because it's taking, and to use his words, a hell of a beating. I mean a

Annie Pullar: Hm.

Jodi Lee: terrible choice of words in a domestic violence case. left a shocking taste in everyone's mouth, but You know, look, I think the truth be told, the last thing that anybody is really thinking about is what will happen to Sam Wood's career. I mean, there is an alleged victim, as we said, at the centre of this, and that's where all of our thoughts are at the moment.

Annie Pullar: Yeah. Very well said. but let's move on to our next story and we're gonna pop over to the UK because quite wild scenes I would say have played out in the last couple of days. you may remember former Prince Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. He's been embroiled in scandals, I think, for my entire lifetime.

Jodi Lee: Ha ha ha.

Annie Pullar: but he has actually scored a victory that very few could have seen coming. So his ties with sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Have followed him for the past decade. He hasn't been able to really distance himself from that whole scandal, but he's actually won a major court battle against British police. So the High Court in London has essentially ruled that the police warrants that we used to search his homes last year were unlawful. They were illegal. It might sound like a legal technicality, and we're going to get into why they were found unlawful, but this could have very, very big. consequences on the criminal investigation against him.

Jodi Lee: Yeah, so just to backtrack, he was obviously very closely linked to Jeffrey Epstein for a number of years. In fact, there was that very famous photo of Guillaine Maxwell, former Prince Andrew, and a very young Virginia Duffrey, who was Well known and well documented to have been a victim of Jeffrey Epstein. She says she was trafficked to Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. He's always denied those charges, but he's never really been able to distance himself from the investigation into Epstein's web of lies and underage women. Police spent almost a week searching his properties in the UK last year, and they gathered a whole range of evidence during those searches: documents, electronic devices, and a range of other things. They still have all of that material, but Regardless of how valuable that evidentiary material has been for their investigation, it turns out they actually didn't have lawful warrants to seize those documents and information. So now the big question is whether or not it can be used as admissible evidence in any kind of court case. And it's really like Andrew Mountbatten Windsor's lawyers have really thrown a giant spanner in the works of this UK police investigation into his alleged conduct.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and I think to understand how we got here, we have to go back to what unfolded. And it's important to point out that these legal proceedings are separate to the Virginia Dufre allegations. So it was back in February 19 that Andrew Mountbatten Windsor was arrested on his 66th birthday. What a birthday present for the former prince. It

Jodi Lee: It was the best photo ever. Do you remember? He was on the front seat of a car, only one paparazzi got him. He looks like a stunned mullet and he's like leaning back on the front seat because he just notices the camera as he's trying to slide down his chair.

Annie Pullar: It was literally full deer in headlights moment and I don't think there's ever been a a bigger fall from Grace, but police arrested him at the King's Sandringham estate where he had been living. And the investigation centered on sensitive government information that he had apparently passed on to Jeffrey Epstein during his time as Britain's trade envoy. And basically, that role is representing business interests in the UK to other countries and spruking that. So he was taken into custody, he was questioned for more than 11 hours, then he was released without charge. Eight months later, he still hasn't been charged, and he has always denied these allegations against him.

Jodi Lee: Now, here's where it gets a little bit spicy, and this is where Andrew Mountbatten Windsor's lawyers have actually had a huge success. So the date, take your mind back, the day before he was arrested, British police went to London's old criminal court and they asked a judge for permission to execute warrants at his properties, to search his properties. The judge has said, yep, no worries, and signed off on those properties. And then cops have stormed his home, raided it, and as I said earlier, seized all this evidentiary information. They're probably licking their lips, patting each other on the back, going, job, job well done, boys. But actually, his lawyers went into court and argued that they'd seized a lot of private information that wasn't relevant to this court case at all, and that basically i it was unlawful.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and I think what's extraordinary about this is, I mean, it's a pretty typical process going to court. It happens here in Australia. Police go, they get the warrants, they execute the warrants. What happened here is they use the wrong law to actually obtain those warrants. So despite getting the highest, you know, judges' approval in the UK, this is kind of a major blunder on the justice system there. And it's raising a lot of questions now as to how this has happened. So Thames Valley police have come out with a statement. They are still maintaining that they followed the correct legal processes here, but really this is a fairly remarkable mistake in such a high profile case.

Jodi Lee: yeah, I mean this is the king of England's younger brother. Like, it's crazy.

Annie Pullar: It's crazy.

Jodi Lee: I mean I obviously understand that mistakes happen, right? It y you know, you nothing is perfect. But wouldn't you have thought that someone very senior at Thames Valley Police would have said, look boys, can we just sit down? Make sure that we dot our I's and cross our T's because we don't really want to stuff this up, this one up with the firm. And I think, you know, obviously the British tabloids and the British press have been all over this, but ITV's Chris Ship has actually clearly outlined just how damaging this could be for the police case.

Annie Pullar: and that last point that Chris Ship makes is really important because police, you know, the investigators involved in this matter are now basically wanting to go to another j judge. They're shopping around and they're saying, hang on a second, we want to keep this evidence that we seize, we don't want to hand it back. So now Andrew's come out swinging saying, I'm opposing that application, and a decision isn't expected to be made on that until next year. But if that evidence turns out to be crucial to the investigation, losing access to it. you'd have to think would be a serious setback here. Like how do you come back from that?

Jodi Lee: Absolutely. And you can understand why Andrew Mountbatten Windsor is probably seeing this as A huge victory, and he probably won't care whether or not it's ultimately seen as a legal technicality. The reality is that this is a member of the Britain's royal family who has stood up against the police, you know, an independent institution or force within Britain and won. And it's that, you know, British tabloids are saying this is the first time in over 400 years that a member of the royal family has been able to challenge a decision like this and walk away successful. I think, you know, winning a battle over police like this, over gathered evidence. violence is is is a real victory for him.

Annie Pullar: Well, of course, there's been absolutely no celebration from the palace. their response has been very telling. I mean, they're probably sitting there going, just when we thought Andrew was staying out of the headlines, here we are again, back in the spotlight, it's impossible to distance themselves from. But Charles's actions have actually been really interesting because during these legal proceedings against his brother, he's maintained a very straight line saying that, you know, the law must take its course, he's not weighing in. into it, but King Charles reportedly still provides Andrew with money. He still funds part of his life. I don't know if it's pocket money or if it's a a substantial amount of money. I just saw in the headlines as we record this today that he's paying for the repair of the the house that

Jodi Lee: Sorry, I feel like even Andrew Mountbatten wins his pocket money would be a very large sum of money to the average person.

Annie Pullar: Well, this is the thing. When I say pocket money, I think the repairs that, you know, King Charles is coughing up for his former house are like three point four million pounds or something wild like that. So it's it's a really interesting balancing act for him. On the one hand, you know, he this is his brother. This was the son of the Queen Queen Elizabeth who protected him under her entire reign. So he he probably still feels like he owes his brother some sort of protection. But on the other side of this he has to protect the monarchy and the police that are investigating this case actually answer to the crown so it's it's very bizarre dichotomy that he's dealing with

Jodi Lee: I think they call this a good old conflict of interest.

Annie Pullar: that's the word for it

Jodi Lee: And as much as it might be like a small win for Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, he is in a world of pain. Let's not forget that police, in addition to investigating charges of whether or not he passed sensitive information to Jeffrey Epstein, are also looking at claims of like sexual, misconduct on his behalf while he was a working member of the royal family, you know, as a result of his close ties to Epstein and Ghilaine Maxwell. So he's in a world of pain. I don't think he's getting out any time soon. but perhaps he, you know. did have a spot of whiskey with his lawyers and cheers to this very, very small success.

Annie Pullar: gonna say he really should take the wins as they come because they've been few and far between. but should we move on to our final story now? And of course this involves the US President Donald Trump.

Jodi Lee: yeah, we're right back to Donny T, our

Annie Pullar: Okay.

Jodi Lee: man the pres. the next time the White House has an important message to disseminate to the world, to the press of the United States, and to the world's press, it's going to come from a new face. His new press secretary is a woman who President Donald Trump has actually himself described as a devoted fan and a member of MAGA. Her name is Katie Zachariah. She's a 42-year-old mum of four. And she's also a regular conservative TV commentator who describes herself as a hardline Trump supporter. I certainly wouldn't expect any less. But now she is the new

Annie Pullar: Sorry.

Jodi Lee: face of President Donald Trump's cabinet, I guess, or his decisions as White House press secretary.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and you if you listen to the analysis in the US, apparently she is a little bit of a wild card, but we'll get to that really soon. I think for our listeners, it's probably worth explaining what a press secretary actually is, because it's a term that's sort of thrown out there, but I feel like most people wouldn't really know what that means. So, in this setting, they are basically acting as President Donald Trump's chief spokesperson. They, to a degree, are also the name and face of the administration because they run and spearhead the Press briefings from inside that White House room, you've probably seen, you know, they stand up in front of that podium, they take questions, everything from like the war in Iran to what's happening with the economy and tariffs. Literally a smorgasbord of topics. So it's probably one of the most visible jobs, you would say, in the US if you're working in politics.

Jodi Lee: it's incredibly visible and it's also a highly demanding and really large role. And it is that way, I think, because of the way the US political system is structured. Unlike in Australia, the US president doesn't actually sit in Congress. So he never has to front question time and answer questions from politicians about why he's done what he's done or why he's made decisions that he's made. So it really then falls onto the press secretary to front members of the media and field those questions about why and how and when and who a decision might impact.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and we do have press secretaries here, but I think the important distinction is that we probably we don't know who they are. And they certainly don't Yeah.

Jodi Lee: Very different. Well, we do, but someone at home probably doesn't.

Annie Pullar: No. Well, they're definitely not fronting the cameras, which is an interesting question because I feel like the reason the US administration works the way that it does is because obviously Trump is so busy. He he can't be expected to stand up in a room and face the world's media every day and speak to all of these issues. But here in Australia, the Prime Minister has a team of, media advisers, they work in groups. Every minister sort of has their own media advisors that answer to the media, and their job is To write statements, press conferences, react to certain questions that come from journalists. They also managing relationships is really important for them as well. So they sort of help shape and guide the message. Yeah, the only distinction is largely we don't really know who they are because we don't see them from a public perspective.

Jodi Lee: Yeah, they never actually deliver that mess message. And I think if they ever did in Australia, the criticism of a politician would be that they were hiding or that they had something

Annie Pullar: Hmm.

Jodi Lee: to hide, that they put somebody else up in their place. But the other the other key difference is the way our political system is structured. So we run off the Westminster system, which means that our politicians, both at a state and federal level, have to front front question time. And you would have seen it. It's those videos that come out of the off the floors of parliament where they have questions that they direct to. Members of the opposition side. They have to approach and speak and respond. There's a lot of argy bhaji. They yell at one another. But that is them responding to decisions or statements that they've made publicly. And then as Australians, we expect our politicians to front press conferences to answer further questions from the media.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and I'm just thinking as we sit here, Katie Zachariah has really big shoes to fill because she is actually replacing Caroline Levitt, who arguably has become a household name, or at least in a lot of households around the world.

Jodi Lee: Just in your house.

Annie Pullar: Just in my house, definitely in my house. but she became the youngest press secretary in history when she took this job at the age of 27 years old at the start of Trump's second term. And she really was, you know, his woman in the wings. She was his closest advisor. she she was quick witted, she was very defensive, she was very well known in the administration and across the media landscape in the US. She pulled the pin on that job. In late August after giving birth to her second child in May, and she has indicated that later this year in November that she's going to be starting a new gig as a contributor with Fox News. So

Jodi Lee: It's a perfect fit.

Annie Pullar: A perfect fit. No questions about that. but I think, you know, I I respect her decision because the fact that she was even doing this job with two little children managing the world's press, and let's be honest, that is no small job, and she's made the decision to put her family first. I think that that's honestly really bold. You know, she had probably the most sought-after job that you could have as a political advisor.

Jodi Lee: Katie Zachariah has four children, and her family is based in California.

Annie Pullar: I didn't know.

Jodi Lee: So it's going to be really interesting to see how she manages this very high-pressure job coming into the midterm elections based out of Washington, DC. But I think the whole concept of the press secretary and the way that different administrations manage them is really interesting. Like Trump

Annie Pullar: Right.

Jodi Lee: has had four press secretaries since he's been in office. To give you an example, Joe Biden only had two. And typically they're people that have extensive experience in Washington. People with degrees in government or communications or journalism. But Donald Trump, as you'd expect, like selects his press secretaries really differently. We've just mentioned that both of his, you know, previous one and now Katie Zachariah are young women managing young families. That's the first thing. But the second thing is that Trump, no surprises here, like highly values loyalty. He's looking for people who will fight for him, who will defend him, and he wants them to have a protection.

Annie Pullar: Protect him.

Jodi Lee: him at all costs and he you know he wants people who have a direct line to him and although Katie Zacharia does have experience in Washington in a variety of different capacities but it's evident that for for Trump experience in Washington kind of matters far less than that extreme loyalty to MAGA.

Annie Pullar: and you have to laugh because I was listening on CNN that you know, obviously this was a fiercely contested battle to get this role, but during the application process, apparently anyone who criticized Donald Trump was just out instantly. Just gone.

Jodi Lee: So you're out, sis. Dream job gone. Strike it off the list.

Annie Pullar: He also finds his advisors on TV. He clearly

Jodi Lee: You're back in, man.

Annie Pullar: he loves a host. So apparently, Katie filled in on Fox News and he actually sent her a congratulations text straight after. So you know he's clearly been surveying the field. It's almost like a casting for him, I would imagine. but there's yeah, there's a real pipeline to show that this is sort of a pattern of behaviour from from him because Katie obviously comes from Fox News and Newsmax, then Caroline Levitt is now heading to Fox. And really, you could liken it to what's happened here in Australia. We all, or most of us, know who Peter Credlin is. She faces Sky News, a very outspoken figure in the media at the moment. But she actually was Tony Abbott's former chief of staff, and she also coined the term. Remember when One Nation did that Fire the Liar campaign? That came from her show. So So yeah.

Jodi Lee: There you go. So it's not totally foreign to us in Australia. I think it is what would be foreign to us, though, is the fact that Katie Zachariah is currently working as a communications advisor at Truth Social. Truth Social is the social media platform that Donald Trump has founded. It's also where he announced her appointment. And I think if you ever saw that happen in Australia, that

Annie Pullar: Mm.

Jodi Lee: a prime minister elect somebody, you know, as a chief of staff or a press secretary from within their own business, I think there'd be a lot of, they'd have a lot of questions to answer.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, I I don't think they would ever escape that. but she's also someone who doesn't hide her politics and there's no surprise there. Earlier this year she apparently wrote an opinion piece claiming her California kickboxing gym bowed to what she called liberal bullies after members complained about her wearing a Trump 2024 hat to class. Honestly, the shit that goes down in the US, like you just it never ceases to amaze me. But that's just one side of her story. it really sort of gives you a sense of the woman who is now going to be taking to the podium. But I have to say I've learned a lot from this story. She is a very well-educated woman and it and it's disappointing that a lot of the comments in the wake of her securing this position has been around the way that she looks.

Jodi Lee: I feel like that's just America though. That's always gonna be

Annie Pullar: Mm.

Jodi Lee: the commentary about any woman in a position of power in America. I remember it very well when Hillary Clinton ran for office and all the comments about her appearance, and the same for Kamala Harris. the thing about this appointment is that the timing is really important. I mentioned earlier that the US midterm elections are happening next month. Trump's approval rating across the United States is at a record low. you know. A lot of people at the polls are basically saying that he's been running the country but doing a terrible job of it. And Katie Zachariah's role is really gonna be to step in and try and turn the tide and try and encourage people and help them see, you know, what she believes Donald Trump has been doing successfully in office.

Annie Pullar: and she's also coming in at an incredibly volatile time. You know, it's no secret Trump has been at loggerheads with mainstream media. We've

Jodi Lee: yeah, yes.

Annie Pullar: covered it extensively on this podcast. They've been taking him to court over him blocking him from these press house briefings. So it'll be interesting to see how she handles it. But something tells me she she won't be going down without a fight based on the history.

Jodi Lee: No, no, I'm getting the popcorn out. But I think on that note, that is all that we have time for. So thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Covered. We'll see you next week.