Annie Pullar: Welcome to Covered, a podcast that helps you figure out what the hell is going on in the news and how you feel about it.

Jodi Lee: Here to guide you through the biggest stories of the week. As always, we are your hosts, journalists Jodie Lee and Annie Poet.

Annie Pullar: On this week's episode we dive into Pauline Hansen has had a chaotic week where unpacking her domestic violence comments UK trip and what it all means for Australia's migration debate.

Jodi Lee: Disturbing story in Queensland, AI has allegedly been used to create nude deep fakes of unsuspecting women, and we look at why the law is struggling to keep up.

Annie Pullar: And the Commonwealth Games has finally kicked off in Glasgow this week, even though it was supposed to be held in Victoria, but we'll get to that very soon. First, let's go to our honorable mentions. These are the stories that don't quite warrant a deep dive, but are worth getting your head across this week.

Jodi Lee: Shock Jock, Kyle Sanderlands has dropped the trailer for a new Tell All interview. It's called At Home with Kyle, and it's his first real interview since he broke up with Jackie O on the KISS FM network. Kyle is set to dish all the dirt on his lawsuit with his former employer, ARN, and spill the beans on why the Kyle and Jackie O show ended all together. He seems to become emotional when he talks about his former co-host and says that they will always be friends. There is always a catch with Kyle, and this one is that this exclusive interview will drop on his own app, along with his new breakfast show that's starting very soon.

Annie Pullar: I can't wait to listen to that on Monday. our next honourable mention, if you haven't been keeping abreast of politics in the UK. Well, you should probably know that Britain has a new Prime Minister. Andy Burnham was sworn in on Monday. Now he's the seventh person to hold this job in just ten years. Not a great track record going there. He's the former mayor of Greater Manchester, which is a city in the north of England, but he isn't coming into the job completely green, having served in cabinet under a former Labour government. He's obviously left-leaning and has built his whole career on this idea that Britain is too centralized. around London and needs power and money spread out to some of the regions. Since taking over this week, he's already making some big promises, pledging some of the biggest economic changes the country's seen in more than 40 years. And on migration, which is obviously the biggest flashpoint in the UK at the moment, he's surprised a lot of people by taking a tougher stance than expected, backing new laws to crack down on illegal immigration and boat crossings. Let's see how long he lasts.

Jodi Lee: Everybody's biggest flashpoint at the moment. But our third story is one I'm super excited about. You might remember that a couple of weeks ago we brought you the court case involving Rebel Wilson. She was being sued for defamation. Well, the Hollywood superstar has actually had a massive win in court. A judge has thrown out the defamation suit that was brought against her by a young actress by the name of Charlotte McKinnon. If you can't remember what happened, a very brief overview. Rebel Wilson was producing a film that Charlotte was starring in. Rebel took to social media to claim that Charlotte had accused one of the producers of. Of making her feel uncomfortable in a bathtub in Bondi. Charlotte's then said she never said those things, and Rebel claims that Charlotte backtracked on her claims to help her own career. The judge, as I said, throughout the defamation lawsuit, Rebel Wilson has since taken to social media once again to thank the Australian legal system and say that she's already moved on from the whole hullabaloo.

Annie Pullar: I mean, completely ironic that the first place she went back to was social media, which was at the very core of these allegations. But let's move to our first story now. And I hate to say it because I feel like recently we've been starting every episode like this, but we are once again talking about Pauline Hansen. I know we've spoken a lot about the rise in the polls when it comes to One Nation. Also the the headline-grabbing comments that we've recently heard from Pauline Hansen around monoculture. But this week, I personally think she really crossed a line.

Jodi Lee: She did, and the comment that's probably caused the most backlash and upset, rightfully so, right, across the Australian community this week was some comments she made about domestic violence when she was on Brisbane radio station for BC. Let's have a listen.

Annie Pullar: Sorry. I just the the point to really pick up is the words that she used there. A two-way street. I Don't think that this comment can be justified in any way, but let's kind of break down exactly what Pauline Hansen was saying here. She's framing domestic violence as something that both partners, male and female or same-sex, completely contribute to equally. And she's putting this all down to cost of living pressures. In this interview, it's worth noting that she also said women experiencing abuse should just simply leave, pack up, walk out the door, and that police spend too much time. crime on family violence and in her words not real crime.

Jodi Lee: It's sickening and I think that in this country we have come so far to accept that there are some things that are simply universal truths, and that is that domestic violence in any form is never justifiable or excusable. What I find also equally frustrating with these comments by Hansen is that national data directly contradicts what she says. 78% of family violence in a s family violence offenders in Australia are male. That's per the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics figures. So she's been debunked there. One woman is killed on average every 11 days by a current or former partner. It's not a two-way street. That's not to say that there aren't outlying cases. We know that nothing is 100%. There are always, you know, individual females that might be perpetrators of domestic violence, but the statistics and for a very long time in Australia have told us, sent us a really clear message, and that is that 78% of domestic violence. violence offenders in this country are men. It's just gendered

Annie Pullar: Yeah and I

Jodi Lee: violence. That's that that's what it is.

Annie Pullar: I I don't I don't think that these statistics in any way can be disputed. If you speak with police officers, the biggest jobs that they're turning out to are domestic violence right across the country. I think my personal issue with this, and if you listen to that extended interview, she goes on to say that domestic violence is a scourge, and then the word but there is no but here. This is a full stop. We can't start to excuse domestic violence in our country. You know, if you sit in courts as we have done previously as journalists, you see protection orders, AVOs, DVOs, put in place every single day, specifically because these courts have have recognized that someone, whether that be male or female, is at a very real risk. These orders are breached constantly. You know, in different states across the country, Queensland, New South Wales, we've seen coercive control, legislation. Recently introduced to criminalize controlling behaviors that ultimately lead to domestic violence abuse. Her framing of this kind of flies in the face of all of the wins that we've had in that space.

Jodi Lee: Yeah, and you make a really good point about AVOs and DVOs. She touched on a really dangerous idea, which is that female victims should just leave. And I think that perpetuates such a fallacy about the way these crimes typically are carried out. you know, there are the the Paulino brothers in Melbourne have become really famous. I don't know if you're familiar with them, they have this account called Yeah Next Door, where they used to post beautiful videos of their elderly neighbour passing them food over the back fence, this beautiful older Greek lady. But their story has a really tragic undertone in the in that their mum was Mm-hmm by their dad in the garage of her parents' home two years after they had separated. So her mum, their mum had moved out, she was living independently with her parents. And I think it was just before their their divorce was finalized through the courts that their dad actually murdered their mum. And they took to social media after Hansen's comments and just said, basically, like, shut up, Pauline. This idea that women should just leave is ridiculous. Their mum did leave and she was still killed, and there are countless others just like her. So this isn't an abstract problem. This is happening every single day. And I think the fact is that this year thirty-eight women have already died through violence across the country and we're only in July.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and you pointed to we could recite many cases, but the case that comes to mind for me is also that of Hannah Clark, which you I think everyone remembers. I think that's forever etched in our history. That was a beautiful mum in Brisbane who had left her abusive partner. Many red flags had been raised by families, by friends. She had been in a situation of abuse for many, many years. She did leave, she took her three children with her, and ultimately one morning he basically ambushed them and killed them all and then killed himself. So advocates have consistently said in this country that it's when women, when victims leave, that that's when they're at the biggest danger. So for me this is just Pauline Hansen being completely tone-deaf, but more than that, it's it's taking this slogan throwing that we've historically seen from her to a dangerous new level.

Jodi Lee: Yeah, and there's there's a dangerous precedence with one nation when it comes to domestic violence. Barnaby Joyce, who's obviously a member of the party, actually made his own comments on domestic violence just before Pauline had her say on 4BC. He has said on radio that men should just walk out the house and cool off before they lose their temper. I mean Well, that's

Annie Pullar: Great advice. Great. Like

Jodi Lee: just ridiculous. The whole I mean, and it was actually the host on 4BC then actually raised Barnaby Joyce's comments with Pauline and asked her to respond.

Annie Pullar: Right, that makes sense. So he was clearly trying to get an answer out of Pauline in response to comments already laid by Barnaby. But I think

Jodi Lee: Yeah, because if you think about it, just to backtrack, in politics, one of the things journos is they try to make sure that politicians within a party are all singing from the same song sheet. We try to determine because politicians can come out and say outlandish things all the time. The key is to try and understand whether that's policy for them or whether that's just them, you know, firing from the hip. So the four B C presenter very rightly said, Look, do you agree with this? Is this a one nation stance on domestic violence?

Annie Pullar: Yeah, I mean if you listen to Pauline Hansen and Barnaby Joyce, they've come out and said that this is you know, that the comments have been taken out of context, that this is a witch hunt, this is mainstream media having yet another jab, but It's very clear that these are completely offensive comments. But I think it's important to explain the timing because it's been such a freaking big week for one nation. It's hard to keep up with all of the dramas here. But these comments came off the back of a trip to the UK, which also generated a lot of controversy. So basically, Pauline Hansen went over to London. She did this big tour meeting up with you know, Reform Party members over there, and she gave this speech. At a conference that tore directly into Australia, saying that the country has been flooded with migrants, that we've all gone completely woke, and that none of us should really apologize for being white.

Jodi Lee: I'm actually just n I I can't even go there. So we're just gonna let that one go straight through the keyboard. I can't. I I just

Annie Pullar: Sometimes there's just yeah, we don't have a response.

Jodi Lee: cannot. But the thing is that she was being filmed while she was in the UK for an Australian TV special. It was obviously on the Seven Networks spotlight. She sat down with a journalist and I would say that the key focus of the piece was on her migration policies. She used Britain as a bit of a cautionary tale, saying that Australia really needed to try and avoid falling into the migration traps that Britain has succumbed to. There were some really interesting moments in the documentary, but I think the one that stood out for me was she went to an Islamic school in Australia and had the opportunity to sit down with three Muslim students who I will say off the top were incredibly well prepared, very educated, and very measured. in the way that they spoke with Hansen. one of the girls was in a full face covering and Hansen and this young lady had an interaction about whether or not she would ever wear a bikini to the beach, which Pauline Hansen said was, you know, a very Australian thing to do. And then she sort of quizzed the young woman on whether she wore was un whether she was forced to wear the face covering. And the young lady said that no, she actually it was a choice she made that helps her feel more connected to God. I'm so curious to understand to to hear what you thought about this This place.

Annie Pullar: I mean, the fact that that school even agreed to let Pauline Hampson in is staggering to me. This is the first time she'd ever visited, you know, an Islamic college before. I thought that those students almost made a mockery of her, particularly with that bikini comment, because she actually said to that girl, why wouldn't you wear a bikini? And then one of the other girls said to her, Well, is that your measure? of what being an Australian is, wearing a bikini to the beach.

Jodi Lee: It's a good question, because when we talked about like this is the question about what is monoculture. If monoculture is all

Annie Pullar: Mm.

Jodi Lee: of us living by the same ideals, i.e. we drink, you know, a VB down at the beach in our bathers, like that is just fraught with danger. Obviously, Australia should be we should have a shared set of values. But that's not what Hansen was talking about when she sat across from these girls.

Annie Pullar: No, and I think I think what was different about this situation is so many so many times we've heard Pauline Hansen get up in front of the media, do press conferences, stand up at the press club, and make comments around monoculture, around subscribing to Australian ideologies and values. This was a setting where she was very clearly put in front of three very well-educated young women. And it was almost like she was scared to fully cross the lines that she'd crossed before. I mean, she's obviously a career politician, she speaks her mind, that that's what makes her different to our two major parties, and it's why, you know, she's having such a big moment in Australia right now because so many disenfranchised people are resonating with that fighter rhetoric. But I personally think none of it landed.

Jodi Lee: The one thing I'll say, and we've got to move on because it's not the only abhorrent thing that one nation

Annie Pullar: Yeah.

Jodi Lee: has done this last week. But the one thing I will say, I just that I couldn't help but think of the irony that migration is all anyone is talking about at the moment, be it in the UK or in Australia. It's just the hottest topic on everyone's lips. At the very same time that the World Cup was being played, and we were hearing about, you know, Spain obviously won, and I just could not let go of the image of I think his name was Nico Williams. He is a Spanish player of African descent who ran to the sidelines to give his trophy or medal to his mum. His mum walked two thousand miles while seven months pregnant with Nico's brother. She walked from Ghana to Spain to give her family a better life. Like That is a migrant story. And I find it so ironic that when a migrant is doing something great that you appreciate, aka winning a World Cup, it's like, woo, Nico. But

Annie Pullar: Yeah.

Jodi Lee: when the migrant is being framed as someone who might steal your jobs or not abide by Australian values, it's bad migration. I just the timing of everything for me has just been really interesting to to to view. I I haven't been able to sort of hold those two images in my mind simultaneously.

Annie Pullar: Well, you're a hundred percent right, but let's round this out with something that happened this week that is equally funny and worrying. Barnaby Joyce, who appeared on ABC's seven thirty to defend Hanson's UK trip and it took a little bit of a turn, if we can call it that.

Jodi Lee: You fast. You fast.

Annie Pullar: It just came out of nowhere. Like I I d I I don't I it's hilarious, but I'm like where the where the hell did that come from? It was like an outburst.

Jodi Lee: Okay, I have a controversial opinion that I haven't actually seen anywhere else. There was no dog. He's if the dog was there, you would have heard the dog barking or rustling around. there was no dog. He was buying time, he was being asked an uncomfortable question that he didn't have an answer for, and he tried to deflect and buy time. That is my professional and personal opinion. You cannot make me change my mind. I've had my dog in here before while we've recorded episodes and it's been a nightmare. You can hear and see her, no dog. That's the official verdict.

Annie Pullar: All all are stunt to make a swift exit out of that question.

Jodi Lee: it was I just don't think it was a stunt. I think he was just he was just desp he was just you know, grasping at straws. He was desperate. He was trying to keep his head above water, didn't have a response, and he was deflecting.

Annie Pullar: Yeah. Well, I mean, I'd be deflecting too if I was Barnaby Joyce. Should we move on to our next story?

Jodi Lee: Yes, let's definitely do that. So this is a story that we've usually avoided. AI is a really tricky topic, I would say, and one that's incredibly detailed and nuanced. But this one is worth digging into because it could affect any one of us at any time.

Annie Pullar: I think the catalyst of bringing this story to light for us has been a case that we've seen unfold in Queensland, my home state, this week. There was a 52-year-old man charged with 43 offences, and the allegations are honestly kind of disturbing. He apparently police say used AI, essentially weaponized AI, and superimposed everyday women's faces onto explicit sexual images, and then printed them out as posters and then splashed them around town. But these Posters actually included really personal information. He allegedly exposed phone numbers, workplaces, social media accounts, and then branded them as sex workers. So police say that some of these women were apparently getting calls and they had no idea that any of this was unfolding. We should say that this case is before the courts, so everything is an allegation at this stage.

Jodi Lee: Literally can't think of anything worse. I think what struck me about this, there are eight alleged victims in this incident and it j it it is massive when it comes to the geography of the thing. So it spans from Harvey Bay, which is correct me if I'm wrong, like four hours outside of Brisbane, right through Brisbane's western suburbs. So it is a massive geographical area. A lot of these women didn't know that this was happening to them until a member of the public called them. Because their numbers were on these posters. The wildest part is that police believe that this alleged criminal activity could have been going on since as early as 2021. So for five years potentially, some of these victims details could have been out there and what looked like sexually explicit photos of them, but it wasn't them. It was just their face superimposed in into compromising situations.

Annie Pullar: It's wild. And they were put up, you know, in public places like shopping centres and parks and public toilets. but I think that why this story struck a chord with me is historically when it comes to deep fakes, I think that they're often or have been associated with like celebrities. This case is completely different. This is people like you and me just One day, you know, walking outside and seeing our face imposed on the body of a prostitute with our personal phone number attached to it. Like

Jodi Lee: It's just it's a level of depravity that I think in my daily life I just Forget exists, or I like to I I try to believe doesn't exist, but the truth is there are people out there who do this. there was an Australian Institute of Criminology survey of like more than 16,000 people, which found that 6% of the surveyed population said that someone has already shared a private image of them without consent. And 41% believe that AI-generated revenge porn is common. Revenge porn, by the way, is a criminal offense. So this isn't a freak one off, some person who's just, you know, on the fringe of society and done the wrong thing. This is far more common than I think I personally had, you know, given thought to. And it's sort

Annie Pullar: But it

Jodi Lee: of terrifying. Like it makes me want to come off the internet. I say as I record a digital podcast.

Annie Pullar: Well I know, I mean the contradiction, but I was I was also gonna say it kind of makes you think about, you know, how you are showing up online, what photos you are putting up, whether you're on private, whether you're on public.

Jodi Lee: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. That's the whole point. It actually doesn't matter. Because if you have stopped posting photos of yourself in bikinis and you only post respectable images of yourself fully clothed, it doesn't matter. They can still chop your face off and whack it on a porn image. It actually doesn't matter what you post.

Annie Pullar: I know, and it's funny until you actually realize the weight of all of this and the ramifications of you know these posters being shared, or or in other cases, online images being shared. But can we sort of get to the legal landscape here? Because this is the part that I think is really interesting. The laws only sort of started catching up in the last couple of years,

Jodi Lee: Well, yes, so I think what's most interesting about the legalities of this is that there are multiple jurisdictions. So states and territories have all their own laws around this as they do around many other things, and then there's also federal law around you know, AI images and explicit images that you share or create of somebody else, and that is an offense. And it carries a maximum sentence of up to seven years. but there's obviously a loophole in these laws, like there are with so many others, and it's built around digital sharing. So that's when you use like a fo they call it in in courts they say using a carriage service, which is basically like a phone or the internet or emails or computers. So physical posters like the ones that are alleged to have been created without these victims consent sort of falls inside a grey area. The question is like, is this covered by the legislation?

Annie Pullar: Well, I think that's why the states have stepped in and essentially enforced their own laws, because there's sort of been this pattern of inconsistency where the same behaviour can can can carry a completely different penalty depending on where you live. So recently in Queensland, I think they're latest to adopt these new laws. They've announced, you know, a maximum penalty of three years for this kind of behavior, which is very similar to Victoria. I'm pretty sure New South Wales is even tougher than that. The maximum penalty goes up to seven years, so in line with what the feds have done. But it's a pretty sort of damning reflection on how slowly this area of law has moved. I'm no expert in the AI space, but I feel like deep fakes have been a problem for longer than the last two years.

Jodi Lee: Well, the other issue is that it must be incredibly hard to prosecute. I'm obviously not a lawyer, but the statistics are wild. So it seems like reports of this kind of abuse are up by 550% since 2019. That's enormous. And yet there's only one Australian who's been prosecuted under federal law. That was a 19-year-old in South Australia. So you talk about it being slow to kind of catch up and and this area of law to move. Like it's really difficult when they introduce new legislation. it's To fi to sort of find its its real world application and I think that's what we're seeing here.

Annie Pullar: But if we just zoom out a bit, because obviously this is not an issue isolated to Australia, and we look at the US, remember that case with Taylor Swift? I think that was a couple of years ago. There was this massive deepfake scandal, and there was one image of her that was orchestrated in a similar sort of landscape, and then that was seen apparently 47 million times by many of her fans who had alerted her to it. But it wasn't removed until the platform essentially gave in after all of this public pressure. So it was still seen forty seven million times, which is

Jodi Lee: I mean, that's worse, right? Because of the size of her public profile. There's much more interest. If you get a nude image of Taylor Swift, I dare say you're far more likely to circulate that to the people that you know rather than just see a poster of what is effectively a stranger advertising sexual services. So I yeah, it's definitely worse if you have a public profile, but I don't think it's any l less damaging. I in fact I In fact, I would argue

Annie Pullar: No.

Jodi Lee: it's more damaging if you don't have a public profile because

Annie Pullar: But it But I think it also for me, it comes back to if Taylor Swift, who's literally the most famous person in the world, can't enforce these platforms to remove content like this quickly enough before everyone catches up to it, then what hope do the rest of us have? Like what hope do unsuspecting everyday Australians have? Or, you know, in this case, people in Queensland?

Jodi Lee: So you're saying that the onus needs to I understand what you're saying. It's less about prosecution and more about the onus being on the owners and the on the apps themselves to regulate

Annie Pullar: Yeah.

Jodi Lee: negative content. That's interesting. I remember the eSafety Commissioner in Australia actually like effectively bullied out of the country a number of these sort of nudify apps that I think would help you basically undress someone using AI. So you post a fully clothed image and it strips them of their clothes. and they were basically pushed out of the country. But I agree with you obviously the owners should be on the apps. I think the reality is they are just so reticent to play ball on anything. Why do

Annie Pullar: Yeah.

Jodi Lee: Why why should they?

Annie Pullar: Yeah, I mean, They have all the cards. But I think my biggest concern is if this is happening now, at the pace that AI is moving, you know, we've just seen ALBO set up this office of AI in Canberra that's trying to enforce more regulation and also expand the AI footprint here, then what's it gonna be in five years' time? Like no one can even keep up with AI at this point. It's Putting people out of jobs, how are we gonna enforce regulation?

Jodi Lee: It's a good question. Look, I risk of falling down the AI rabbit hole and ending this podcast right now for fear that it could be manipulate manipulated on the dark web. let's move to our third story. So if like me you're in experiencing a bit of a FIFA World Cup. Come down. Never fear, there is fantastic sport to be watched in the form of the Commonwealth Games. There are so many great Australian stories, and we will unpack a few of them on this episode. But the best thing I think we need to talk about is that these games were supposed to be in the great state of Victoria. This was not meant to be happening in Scotland at all.

Annie Pullar: Well, trust you know, Daniel Andrews to leave an absolute shitstorm in his wake. but I actually have

Jodi Lee: Spoken like a true Queenslander.

Annie Pullar: I have to admit though, I was so distracted by the World Cup, and this sounds so unAustralian of me, I completely forgot the Commonwealth Games was actually happening. So if you're in that same boat, let's just do a little bit of a recap because Victoria actually won the hosting rights for the Commonwealth Games back in 2022. And at the time it was sort of being billed as this big regional game. So it was gonna be spread right across Victoria. Places like Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Gippsland. They were all gonna be staging events, but the opening ceremony was going to be held. In Melbourne, similar to what's sort of being pitched for the Brisbane Olympics, being spread across the state. So this Was billed at a cost apparently of $2.6 billion originally. And Daniel Andrews came out spreoking jobs and infrastructure, income that the Commonwealth Games would bring to the region as they always do. Then a year later, the government pretty much walked away from it entirely, wiped its hands cleaned, and said that, you know, the costs were too high, it had blown out to six billion dollars, and the whole thing was unattainable.

Jodi Lee: Yeah, so the wildest part was, just keep that figure in your mind, the Andrews government said it was going to cost six billion dollars. That's billion with a B. Then the Auditor General did a review of that in twenty twenty four and found that it was actually going to cost the state of Victoria only five hundred and eighty nine million dollars, not six billion. So They were grossly overstated estimates. Their Victorian government was accused of not being transparent and no one really knows kind of what happened there. But it wasn't entirely free. The current Commonwealth Games taking place in Glasgow are actually being funded in large part by the state of Victoria. So Victoria paid $380 million compensation to the Commonwealth Games Federation. And then a large portion of that money was passed on to Glasgow when it decided to save the day.

Annie Pullar: I mean, thanks to Gladstone. Like without them would we even be having a Commonwealth Games right now. It's important to note that Glasgow actually did host the Commonwealth Games in 2014. So I think they had a lot of the infrastructure in place to be able to pull it off. They stepped in at very short notice, and it's been a little bit of a rocky road to actually get here because this Commonwealth Games is probably unlike others that we've seen before. Usually there's about 20 sports across the slate. I think that's been paired right back down to 10. So, you know, sports like Badmington, hockey, cricket, rugby seven, squad. Gosh, none of that is on the cards anymore. So a very different Commonwealth games to what we're used to.

Jodi Lee: And they're actually saying that this could be the blueprint for Commonwealth games moving forward, that it isn't such a big budget production, that it's done at sort of a more affordable price. Interesting to see how it plays out. I did find it really interesting though that at Thursday's opening ceremony, the game's chair George Black, got up in front of a packed stadium and sort of took a swipe basically at Dan Andrews and at the state of Victoria. He said that, and I'm just gonna read this, so it's a direct quote quote, said that Glasgow's a city built by people who believe that when something matters, you step forward. And that when the game's future was uncertain, Glasgow didn't ask can we, it asked when do we get started.

Annie Pullar: I just go George. I'm I'm a huge fan of the Scottish government at this point. Seriously though, like what the hell would have they done if they didn't step up?

Jodi Lee: It's wildly characteristic of the Andrews government. It's it's arrogant, right? We'll make a commitment to

Annie Pullar: Wow.

Jodi Lee: something, we'll get all the kudos for it, and then we'll just we'll

Annie Pullar: Yeah, yeah, all the applause.

Jodi Lee: back out of it later.

Annie Pullar: Okay. Well, anyway, let's leave the politics aside and get to the actual sport. there is an emerging story. An elderly grandmother has been taking center stage. Talk to me about her.

Jodi Lee: I'm obsessed with this. This is so good. So Jackie Hudson is 75. I feel like in today's day we don't really call 75 overly elderly. Do we? Like my dad's 72. I wouldn't call him elderly.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, that's true. That's true. yeah.

Jodi Lee: Anyway, by the by, she's a grandmother of five and a great grandmother of two. And the critical thing here is she's actually legally blind, but she is competing for Australia in the lawn bowls. And she's really bloody good at it. She's the world champion. So she actually hadn't been playing bowls for very long. Apparently, her husband, Tried to her husband Rob dragged her to a game of lawn bowls and she realized she was really good at it. she's making her Commonwealth games debut. What I love about old Jackie is she come well, she's actually got a lot of sporting stock in the family. So her grandson plays NRL for the Cowboys. and her son was a Sydney Olympics Ollie Roo. So I'm gonna be watching Jackie and the Lawn Bowls. Come on, Jack. Get around, Jack.

Annie Pullar: Runs Go Jack. Runs runs in the family. But also I really want to watch her now. Like

Jodi Lee: Yeah.

Annie Pullar: leg legally blind and now doing lawn bowls is incredible. Also

Jodi Lee: Yeah, I actually read something that she sometimes obviously struggles to see the end of I don't know, do you call it a pitch? The bowl's pitch. Struggles to see the end of the pitch. So

Annie Pullar: We'll call it a pitch.

Jodi Lee: yeah, so sometimes she has to have I think they call them a director. Anyway, she has like a bit of a a guide that will stand with her and sort of talk her through the the topography, if you will, of the pitch so that she can to help her nail the shot, basically. What a badass. Very jacky.

Annie Pullar: My god, the precision. She must have amazing instincts. Anyway, some pretty other crazy stories emerging out of this Commonwealth Games. Also for Scotland, representing Scotland, I should say, is Sean McCann. He's 21 years old.

Jodi Lee: Yes.

Annie Pullar: Yes, he's the younger brother of Madeline McCann. So he was just two years old when she disappeared, which is a pretty amazing success story. you know. Considering just the emotional trauma that that that poor boy has been through in the wake of his sister's disappearance, that family have just been put through an absolute media storm. Obviously, she was never found. So the fact that, you know, parents Kate and Jerry get to hopefully sit in the stand and support their young son in this way, I mean, that warms my heart, because you can't even imagine what they've been through.

Jodi Lee: And the the reports are that he's like really going hard for a place at the LA Olympics. So Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Annie Pullar: wow. So he must be pretty good.

Jodi Lee: yeah. He's amazing. But I feel you know what the wildest part for the Commonwealth Games for me is? And again, a little bit like the moment I was explaining I had with the World Cup and migration. you know

Annie Pullar: It all comes back to migration.

Jodi Lee: Well, less about migration and more about this idea of colonization. It's also a real hot topic

Annie Pullar: Mm.

Jodi Lee: and flashpoint. We hear this word thrown around a lot. We were talking about Australia Day on last week's episode and whether or not January twenty-sixth is the right day to be celebrating a country that was colonized. and the Commonwealth games are effectively a coming together of nations who were colonized by Britain. And I just You know, I just find it used to be called the British Empire Games. It seems a little

Annie Pullar: Yeah well

Jodi Lee: on the nose as a concept, and I just find it strange. Obviously because it's sport, which is the national religion in Australia. I feel like all is forgiven under a sporting flag. But it doesn't it feel it just feels a bit on the nose for me, like Charles and Camilla, I don't know.

Annie Pullar: I mean, we will support any sporting event that gets put in front of our faces, but I think you're bang on. I mean, they were front and center, Charles and Camilla, at the opening ceremony. But when you look at, you know, the countries that participate in the Commonwealth Games, some of them, like Jamaica, are moving towards becoming a republic, also Barbados. So I think there's a lot of questions being asked around the future and what the future of the Commonwealth Games will look like if you know, future hosting countries might look at this paired back games and go, okay, well, maybe that's that's the way forward. Maybe we don't need this big spectacle. I mean, my opinion is I'll back any sporting event, any stage that our athletes can stand on, and we can all get around them as a country. I think why not?

Jodi Lee: And honestly, like the big power brokers are probably in the same boat as you. Gina Reinhardt is of obviously offering cash bonuses for Australian swimmers, as she's done for many, many years. There are big cash prizes on offer. and I was reading that she doesn't actually pay swimmers through swimming Australia. She pays them directly. So look, I don't think we're gonna see the end of the Commonwealth games anytime soon. But yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe it's just gonna be a more budget-friendly.

Annie Pullar: Mmm. A fast fashion.

Jodi Lee: Maybe it's more Kmartcom games, you know?

Annie Pullar: well anyway, we hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Covered. As always, please keep us informed with any stories you want to hear next week.

Jodi Lee: We'll see you then.

Annie Pullar: Bye.