Annie Pullar: Welcome to covered a podcast that helps you figure out what the hell is going on in the news and how you feel about it.

Jodi: Here to guide you through the biggest stories of this week, as always, we are your hosts, journalists Jodie Lee and Annie Puller. On this week's episode, we unpack the Prime Minister's national address on the fuel crisis that had most Australians asking what the hell just happened and Australia's most wanted fugitive Desi Freeman is dead.

Annie Pullar: We will also pull back the layers of a nasty court battle that's unfolding between two radio heavyweights, Kyle and Jackie ⁓ But kicking off firstly, I think we need to address the elephant in the room or perhaps the elephant in the country ⁓ that was the Prime Minister's national address. It's hard to really know where to start with this one. It's one of those moments where you'll probably remember where you were when you first heard it because if you're anything like me, you probably sat there for three minutes waiting for the actual announcement and then realised, yep, that was about it. So let's take a recap now.

Jodi: in.

Annie Pullar: Hmm, some great advice Beth.

Jodi: Okay, the first thing's first. Yeah, look, it's great advice. But the first thing that came to mind as a former TV journal and now a media trainer is like, he's put the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllables to quote the great Will Ferrell. Is it Will Ferrell? I can't even remember. Maybe it's not. But I'm like, someone needs to sit down with him and explain, no, this is the word that we're emphasizing in this sentence. This is where your tone needs to drop. Anyway, bye the bye.

Annie Pullar: I literally thought, sorry to interrupt you there, I literally thought it was AI when I first started watching it and then I had to tell myself no they wouldn't be that stupid. Anyway, carry on.

Jodi: Well, it did all happen on Wednesday night, which was the first of April being April Fool's Day. So you'd be forgiven for thinking that this was some AI bot. But if you missed it and have been living under a rock, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese became only the fourth prime minister in Australia's history to actually command every TV and radio station or network in the country simultaneously. So this was a national address. It means that he beamed into lounge rooms right across the country at exactly the same time. everywhere. And it's, as I said, only the fourth time that an Australian PM has done this. The last time this happened was Scott Morrison, ahead of the COVID pandemic in 2020, alerting Australians that we were going to experience that dreaded term of unprecedented times. Before SCOMO, Kevin Rudd had done this in 2008 during the global financial crisis and John Howard before him in 2003 committing troops. to the Iraq war. So these addresses carry the weight in history of wars and pandemics. It's serious stuff.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, so we can't be stupid for thinking that something significant, something big was going to happen. He kind of had the country on tenterhooks from 11am in the morning when this national address was first announced. And that's exactly why people were so anxious because there is a genuine crisis that we're living in here. The war in the East has now entered, I think it's gone into its 30th something day. ⁓ can't give you the exact figure there, it's been going on for far too long and it's directly affecting what we pay at the pump. We know that we're living in this fuel crisis, I hate to use the word unprecedented times but that's really what we're in once again. And again I hate to sound like a broken record but the Strait of Hummus, which is this narrow stretch of water between Iran and Amman where about 20 % of the world's oil passes through is still effectively shut down. I mean in the last week alone, petrol hit, I think it was over $2.59 a litre across the country and then in some regional areas that pushed past $3 a litre. So this crisis is very real. People have a very fair reason to be worried, to be anxious and that's exactly why this address needed to deliver far more than it actually did.

Jodi: Yeah, but fair to say it went down with most Australians like a lead balloon. The reaction to Albo's national address last night was swift and quite savage, if I'm honest. I mean, some of the headlines that we saw in papers across the country were laughable. The Daily Telegraph's headline was essentially WTF, what the has happened. or was that the Batoota advocate though was my absolute favorite. Almost everyone I know on social media reshared this at some stage and it was a photo of Albo, a screenshot of that national address and it said, yeah, that could have been an email. I'm sure every person in corporate Australia was thinking that very same thing. Opposition leader Angus Taylor, the head of the Liberal Party here in Australia called it a rerun with no plan. And essentially he's just used this same format, as you said, that was used during what was a real crisis being the COVID pandemic by Scott Morrison all those years ago, you know, or on the eve of a war, you know, John Howard, and he's basically telling us to have a great Easter and essentially catch the bus if we can.

Annie Pullar: Like it really is hard not to laugh because it's so ridiculous but the situation itself is far from humorous. Basically it was a media release dressed up as something far more pressing, far more significant. ⁓ It went for just over three minutes. It was extremely scripted. It felt very orchestrated, very AI like. and he delivered this from Parliament House. Albo actually urged people not to hoard fuel, not to panic buy because we've been seeing those scenes. He asked us to think about, you know, the tradies, the farmers who really need the diesel, who are feeling this the most, which is all fine advice. I agree with all of it. I think it's very fair, but it's far from a plan. ⁓ I think just to deliver a for a coordinated ⁓ national response, which is what he also did during this national address, ⁓ really exposed the irony, the hypocrisy. ⁓ of the situation that's currently on the ground. We really wanted to make a point of this week. In the last week alone, if we just look at what states and territories are doing, Chris Mintz, who's the Premier in New South Wales, has set up his own Emergency Fuel Operations Centre in Parramatta. Meanwhile, in WA, the Premier there, Roger Cook, well, he's activated emergency powers and appointed his very ⁓ fuel controller, whatever that means. ⁓ Victoria and Tasmania have made public transport free while New South Wales and Queensland have both refused to do that. So at least for me, this is giving real flashbacks to COVID. Once again, it's every state and territory sort of fending for themselves, going out on their own, trying to help their people, but then again, not really getting aligned on one national plan. And once again, kind of just making us feel very disjointed.

Jodi: Yeah, well the whole thing sort of seemed like a giant kumbaya moment. It was almost like he was trying to rally Australians and encourage us not to panic by. He wanted us to get behind each other, get behind the people that need the fuel and diesel most, as you said, being the farmers and industry. And it was almost like this subtle signal to state and territory leaders like, we also all need to be singing from the same song sheet. But I think the timing of this is also really interesting in addition to the medium he chose.

Annie Pullar: You

Jodi: This announcement dropped like 12 minutes after Donald Trump claimed that the US would be out of this war between in the next two to three weeks time. So I'd take that obviously with less more than a grain of salt. I take it with a mountain of salt. ⁓ know no one has a crystal ball and one ever knows what Donald Trump is or isn't to do. ⁓ But it does look like Albo in this instance wanted to be responding or seem to be in lockstep somehow with Donald Trump.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, I think we've spoken about before on previous episodes how ⁓ Trump and US politics more broadly is starting to influence and infiltrate into other countries. And I think Albo really wanted to have his moment in the sun here. He wanted to claim the stage. But the reality is there was actually something concrete to speak about in this moment. And he completely missed the mark, undercooked it and undersold it. So the fuel excise cut actually kicked in that same day that the national address was If you're not familiar what a fuel excise is, it's a federal tax that's put on every litre of petrol and diesel. So normally that's around 50 cents a litre ⁓ and halving it saves about 26 cents. Already we're starting to see the impact trickle through across ⁓ service stations from states territories. Some here in New South Wales ⁓ dropped by more than cents on a single day. So ⁓ I think it's safe say ⁓ we're heading in the direction. and promising signs. But that's kind of exactly the practical information that would have been helpful for the PM to lead with to kind of deliver some sort of promise to the public. Instead, we got this kind vague reassurance. ⁓ When Australians, ⁓ I think the reality is we kind of want to hear the hard truths. We've been really hard times in the five years with pandemic. We know what that looks like. ⁓ Why don't you come out and call a spade a spade? the that we are sitting on around 39 days of petrol reserves, which is well short of that 90 days ⁓ of the International Energy Agency recommendations, I think people can actually handle the reality here. They're living through this tough time. They want to see an approach, a way forward. ⁓ And Albo just failed to deliver that. He failed to give any kind of promise ⁓ or plan to fix what's broken.

Jodi: I also think though that had he done that and highlighted his government's albeit small wins in cutting the fuel excise that could have been done, I dare say in a press conference. So for me, the mode that they chose being a national address is actually key to all this. And although it was clunky and it was giving like the queen on Christmas day, I actually think there was, yeah, right. It was giving.

Annie Pullar: Mm. That's so true. The great old Christmas day. That's exactly- He should've... Should've got out of-

Jodi: Queen Elizabeth in like the worst, in a not good way. He should have got out and done the wave. But I actually am going to go against the grain and say, while I think it was awkward AF, ⁓ I actually think it was very calculated. And I think Albo chose this mode of communication to send a really clear message, less about fuel and what Australians should or shouldn't do, but about himself and his own leadership. So no prime minister.

Annie Pullar: you you

Jodi: They certainly have a team of policy advisors and very smart, know, media savvy people. No prime minister is going to call a national address for no reason. You know, you only have to look at Scott Morrison, who was very famously over that summer in Hawaii with, you know, remember Jenny and the girls. And he chose not to come back to Australia during that bushfire crisis. And that sort of sent a really clear message to the public that he didn't care. It wasn't important and he wasn't available and sort of at the wheel when we needed him most. so Albo's team, no doubt using my, you know, crisis comms and PR hat. Albo's team has clearly sat down and said, what is worst case scenario here? And worst case scenario for Albo as a political leader and the head of the Labour Party, worst case for him would be that this does, this situation does get worse. And Australians turn around and say, well, Albo, you did nothing. You were asleep at the wheel. So I think what he's done with this national address is go look, it can't go wrong all that badly. If I get up in front of 20 f**** for, you know, odd million people. Maybe we'll have a crack at it. Let's get the auto queue rolling boys. You know, tidy up the office behind me. I'll have a crack at reassuring the nation that I've got this. I might look a bit clunky. I might give, you know, the queen, but at least if it goes pear shaped and Donald Trump really does, you know, make a mess of this continually for the next few months and Australians really are doing it tough, at least then no one can say that.

Annie Pullar: You Amen.

Jodi: I wasn't present and I wasn't doing everything I can. So it's for me a very coordinated PR stunt. It was clunky AF. I'd love to get him in the room for some media training, but you know, I think he's just covering his own ass essentially.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, I 100 % can understand what you're saying. I just think if this was his chance to show steady leadership, someone that we could trust, someone that we aligned with, yeah, I just, don't think it could have gone worse for him. It literally felt like a big group hug for the country. That's how I felt towards the end of it. I don't think people want like vibes right now. They want clarity, they want specifics. They want to know what's being done. don't want, cool, everyone head off for Easter and make sure you fill the car up and just to the right amount. ⁓

Jodi: No, no, no, catch the bus. You can catch the bus. Did it motivate me to ditch the car? Like, no, I'm sorry, Albo, it didn't. But props for trying.

Annie Pullar: the bus. I've been driving around all day today. Sorry to the farmers though. I should actually really cut back the driving. ⁓ But yeah, honestly, that was what was missing for me. There was barely any detail on any of the measures already in place to ease the pressure. The fuel excise got a passing mention. also something ⁓ kind of puts this into context makes this whole situation just I honestly felt baffled by it when I saw it in the paper today. ⁓ So just hours after he handed down this national address, Bloomberg actually reported that the government is preparing a billion dollars in interest-free loans for businesses hit by the crisis. That's tangible. That's something that's going to impact small business. That's going to be something that's going to make them feel seen. Why the hell do you not lead with that?

Jodi: Spoken like a true TV journalist, you always lead with your best grab. In the event that people switch off, which I think many Australians did last night. Look, we'll never know why Albo made this decision. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. I don't have a crystal ball, but we will be watching how it plays out for our fierce leader. But we will park this story for a moment to shift to our second story because after 216 days, of Australia's or arguably Australia's biggest manhunt

Annie Pullar: Yes, your best angle.

Jodi: has come to an end. Accused cop killer Desi Freeman is dead in the state of Victoria.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, look, I don't think anyone expected it to end this way, but for those who may not be familiar with the scale of this manhunt, it's worth going back to the very start. So Freeman had actually been on the run since August last year. That's when he shot these two police officers who ⁓ had arrived at his property to serve him a warrant for child sex offences. ⁓ Senior Constable ⁓ Neil Thompson was just 59 years old. He was days away from retirement when he was killed. ⁓ And Senior Constable ⁓ Vadim David Attar was just 35 when he died and honestly this still breaks my heart. His brother at his funeral referred to him as my superhero, my Batman, which is just, it just exposes the daily realities that police officers go through and you know what their families now have to live through. And then also a third officer was actually injured in this shootout but he ended up surviving. So as for what happened to Desi Freeman, well he vanished, he bolted into the bush and apparently Apparently, ⁓ really interestingly, police intercepted a call just days after he had disappeared. He had been on the phone with an associate and he'd actually said to this associate, I fucked up. but they couldn't track the location of that call. So then begun this massive manhunt. So the fact that they got so close, or they could have been so close to him, but they couldn't intercept that. ⁓ Since then, we've seen hundreds of police, dogs, helicopters, they've spent months searching. There was even a $1 million reward, which we believe is the largest in Victorian history. There's been thousands of sightings, more than 2,000 sightings. Even one, I think, was someone reported. that they may have seen him in South Africa, which we obviously know now not to be true. But by February this year, police pretty much believed that he had taken his own life. They thought that they were searching for a body, that there was no way that they were going to find him in a situation alive.

Jodi: Yeah, but he was alive and this is where it gets really interesting because there are differing views about how police were able to catch him down. Channel 9 in Melbourne, Jill Lanteros, who's a gun journo, was reporting that police tracked traffic camera footage that showed one of Desi Freeman's associates traveling back and forth between this remote property and another area and they were able to trace that. But I actually was, funnily enough, speaking with an old police contact from Melbourne today. And he said that there's some chatter in the police circles that what happened was one of the people who was allegedly aiding Desi Freeman to survive, ferrying him supplies at this remote ⁓ outpost where he was living, decided to cash in on the million dollar reward and dubbed him into police. So we don't know how they tracked him down, but essentially,

Annie Pullar: Wow.

Jodi: There was some kind of tip. Victoria police have tracked him to this remote property. It's over 100 kilometres away from where Desi Freeman was living and where that initial shootout took place. It's near the border with New South Wales, just outside of Albury. And that's where they found him hiding this week.

Annie Pullar: Wow. God, there's going to be so many theories and police no doubt will be working to backtrack and filter through all of them but what we do know is that around 5.30 on Monday morning, a police negotiator actually made contact with a man inside a shipping container on that property. ⁓ They had ordered him to surrender. They had asked multiple times, ⁓ telling them that he wouldn't be harmed if he did comply. During those conversations, apparently this man said things only Desi Freeman would know. So that was kind of their final confirmation that they had their man, they had their target, ⁓ which would have just been I can't even imagine being a fly on the wall in that scenario. You're hunting for someone for more than 200 days and you've just realised you've locked down the location and he's right in front of you. So Freeman emerged from this container. The pictures were incredible that some of the news outlets were running post him being found. But he apparently emerged using a doona to try and shield himself from the police flash bang grenades. ⁓ As we mentioned, he was told to surrender. Instead he actually walked out in this doona, he was armed, he raised a pistol which he'd actually stolen from one of the officers he killed last year and again even in this moment he tried to fire at police.

Jodi: It's actually chilling to even sort of describe it out loud. sounds like a thing from a horror movie, but I found the police commissioner in Victoria said it really plainly when he said ⁓ Freeman was given the opportunity to peacefully surrender and he chose not to. ⁓ The first people notified according to authorities after this shootout with Desi Freeman were the families of those slain police officers who were killed back in August. You know,

Annie Pullar: and

Jodi: Closure is a really awful term and it's rarely used in contexts like this and I wouldn't even dare to say that but it does, it must, you'd have to think, bring some kind of an end or perhaps it's the start of a healing and grieving process for them. You know, we can't even begin to understand how much greater their pain would be having lost a loved one knowing that the person police say is responsible was still potentially out there, be it alive or dead.

Annie Pullar: Mm.

Jodi: But I also think as, you know, we sort of spare a thought for the slain police officers, devastated family and friends, that there is a bigger conversation that we need to be having here about the sovereign citizen movement. So Desi Freeman was a self-described sovereign citizen. These people don't believe that the law applies to them. And he, according to authorities, had used really ugly and dark and hateful language describing police. in previous court appearances as Nazis and terrorist thugs. So, you know, he'd been posting anti-authoritarian content for years. Interestingly, I read an article that was written, an op-ed by a woman who used to know Desi Freeman. She said she met him at these sort of, I guess, for lack of a better word, hippie gatherings over the years. And she said at first he was full of optimism. And then when she reconnected with him years later, he had changed and her words were a bitterness had set in. But I don't even think that's harsh enough to describe the way he spoke about police. ⁓ And there are other so-called or self sort of self-titled sovereign citizens out there. It's very clearly they have a distrust of and a disdain for authority. And it has ended with extremely dangerous.

Annie Pullar: you

Jodi: and tragic consequences. And I think as a community, need to be asking the question about what more we can be doing to identify these people and intervene.

Annie Pullar: and Yeah, and just building on that, I think the one thing that should really unsettle everyone is even since Monday, even since the shootout, within hours of Desi Freeman being killed, apparently these sovereign citizen sympathisers were actually online celebrating him. Someone actually wrote, ⁓ the sovereign citizen movement now has its first martyr. So these are people treating a man who murdered two police officers as a hero. ⁓ which, yeah, for me it's just chilling, it's unsettling, but most of all the cost to these families is just enormous. They were fathers, they were partners, they were sons. Neil Thompson, as we said, days away from retirement. He'd been chosen apparently for that warrant because he'd previously dealt with Desi Freeman and had a rapport with him, and that's the part that just sticks with me. An officer who is dufully doing his job so well, he's been sent in there because he's been able to... ⁓ build this rapport with an unhinged man and this is how it ends. Yeah, I just, I can't. There'll be so many questions as well ⁓ about who helped him because as we know someone must have known something for him to end up in that location.

Jodi: Well, it's also you mentioned the pictures that were coming out of this remote camp after he was shot dead by police and you see, you know, authorities are reporting there was more than I think it was two or three camp chairs. There was a new ventilation installed on this camper van cum shipping container that it's alleged he was living in. There was apparently a new ladder leaning up against this makeshift home and apparently there were beers at the campsite. So someone clearly knew something. Someone was clearly assisting him.

Annie Pullar: Mm. Yeah.

Jodi: What I find really difficult is that because he is dead, he will never face court and the details of what he did will never come to light in that way. ⁓ But let's park that manhunt because we do have a third ⁓ very interesting story this week.

Annie Pullar: Yes, let's change pace. This one is a little bit lighter, but it is genuinely one of the wildest stories to happen in Australian media in a very long time. And we'd like to give a salute or a thank you to the Australian Financial Review for getting its hands on nearly 300 court documents this week, because we now know what's actually happening behind closed doors with ⁓ two of Australia's biggest media giants, Kyle and Jackie

Jodi: Yeah, so we'll start with the basics just to bring you up to speed. Obviously, we're talking about about Kyle Sanderlands and Jackie O. Henderson, they're the dynamic duo that have sat at the top of the radio charts across Australia for almost 25 years. They have been for a time Australia's highest rating radio duo and they signed a record deal $200 million. So that's $100 million each. to stay on the airwaves for 10 years. And they only signed that deal with the Australian Radio Network in 2023. So it's fresh. And by all accounts, their partnership was incredibly strong when all of this unfolded.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, we're just 14 months into this deal and it's all blown up in the most visible way for everyone to see because obviously it all played out on air. So I want to play you a part of that recording now. ⁓ I think we'll leave it there. It's so awkward, isn't it? Like, it's just, ⁓

Jodi: I just want to crawl into a hole and die when I hear that.

Annie Pullar: It's just so uncomfortable to listen to but that really is their forte. It's kind of nothing out of the ordinary for them but just knowing how this is all escalated and listening back it just oh god I just I want to like block my ears. But it's worth giving a little bit of a backstory as to how they got to that. Jackie was apparently trying to connect Prince Andrew's involvement. Stick with me here. She was...

Jodi: It sounds so ridiculous when you say it out loud, but it is actually characteristic of her and her interest.

Annie Pullar: This is actually what happened. So she's super into horoscopes and she was basically trying to connect Prince Andrew's involvement in the Epstein scandal to his astrology, I just can't, to his astrology chart and clearly Kyle wasn't having a bar of it. He wasn't in the mood for it. He went off at her, told her she was off with the fairies, said that she'd basically... ⁓ not been showing up to work in the right way, wasn't focused in the way that she usually is, has no idea what's going on. And that exchange went on for about 10 minutes. Jackie reportedly left the studio stormed out in tears and then it's obviously all ended up in court. So a lot to unpack there.

Jodi: Yeah, it's gotten way worse since then. Essentially, ⁓ Jackie is now suing their employer, the Australian Radio Network for $82 million, saying that she made a complaint about her well-being at work on the back of that exchange and that subsequent to making a complaint, she was sacked. That came a week after Kyle filed his own suit against the same company, ARN, for $85 million for what he alleges is wrongful termination of his contract. His argument essentially is that he was hired to be a shock jock and to say provocative things to get a rise out of, you know, both his co-host and his guest and that ARN has been on board with that the entire time. That's the premise of the show. And now suddenly things have changed and they terminated his contract after this exchange. So, The network says he breached his contract with serious misconduct. So they've both filed individual lawsuits and ARN is certainly up against it.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and if we just do the maths on those numbers that you ticked off earlier, basically ARN is dealing with $167 million in claims when you put these lawsuits together. At one point last week, the company's entire value dipped to around $98 million. So the lawsuits are actually worth more than the company itself. The company's lost about 40 % of its value in the last three weeks. There's even been wild speculation and talks about Kyle buying the network, which I don't know whether you buy into that or not, whether it's legit or not. It kind of tells you everything about how badly this power has shifted.

Jodi: Yeah, but you touched on the Australian Financial Review's investigation into these lawsuits and the fact that they were able to get their hands on 300 odd court documents. We're obviously not going to bore our dear listeners with all of the legal detail, but there are some points that I think are really worth pulling out. ⁓ ARN's lawyers accused Kyle, and I'm going to read it here so I'm accurate, of making comments that were, quote, calculated to offend and distress Jackie.

Annie Pullar: Mm.

Jodi: And ARN has accused him of persisting despite Ms Henderson being visibly distressed and embarrassed. It's pretty strong language from the company that had agreed to pay him a hundred million dollars.

Annie Pullar: And I think Kyle's lawyers have been having a field day with that language. They fired back instantly with a very compelling argument. They kind of pointed to his contract specifically, which set out ⁓ and even endorsed what they called and in inverted commas, his robust character. ⁓ And also the fact that ARN actually employed ⁓ dedicated censors and these people, specific job was to monitor the show live and cut it when went too far. you might have actually been familiar when you're listening to Kyle and Jackie O. There's a sound that sort of plays when the censors cut and that's usually when they've said something controversial that they don't want to go to air. So that role was written into the contract. His legal team is essentially saying if you hired censors to manage his content how can any individual segment be serious misconduct? This is kind of the behaviour that they've encouraged throughout his entire entire employment at ARN and now they're flipping or you know they're changing their tune. ⁓ They knew who he was, they kind of built a whole business and show around it. I think from at least where I sit it's hard to understand how you can rewrite the rules now because it suits you or it suits your legal argument.

Jodi: Yeah, there's one detail though that I thought was very telling and it speaks to just how fractured the relationship is now between Kyle and Jackie. Jackie allegedly told ARN that quote, direct contact with Mr. Sanderlands is now untenable. So that's 25 years of what has, by all accounts, been an incredibly lucrative partnership that has, you know, all but ended.

Annie Pullar: Mm. Yeah, and Kyle's lawyers are actually pushing really hard to get him back on air. He wants his job back. Last week he famously stood outside the federal court in Sydney. I think this is a moment that will go down in media history where he sort of reiterated that he has a mortgage to pay too. He's just like all the other Australians during this cost of living crisis, despite the fact that he's been on a $100 million contract. you know, feel for him what you will. But the whole thing goes back to court on April 24. And honestly, both arguments are, they're both strong, which tells you this is going to get really messy before it's resolved.

Jodi: Yeah, and obviously I'm not a lawyer and I don't have a crystal ball. So I won't even try and ⁓ guess or predict how this ends. But you touched on Kyle's appearance outside court and that is something that you and I know a little bit about. And I thought it was a masterstroke from his crisis or PR team. So if you haven't seen it, Kyle rocks up to court on the day of his hearing, which by the way was a procedural hearing. So his lawyers could have showed up. He didn't need to be there. He could have been sitting in his track. He's on the couch and it wouldn't have mattered. But he showed up and he showed up in a suit. And there's a woman on TikTok who does an amazing breakdown of this appearance and I wholeheartedly agree with her. She says, ⁓ and she's right, that showing up in a suit is meant to send the message that he holds the process of the court in very high regard. He's very respectful of court proceedings and he did that. And then he was asked, as you can imagine, there was a swarm of dozens of journalists and they were all chasing after him and they asked him all manner of questions. And as you said, he said, look, I just, you know, I wanna get back to work. I've got a mortgage to pay. And this is the guy that not two minutes ago, you said there's been, you know, reports that he wants to potentially buy the network. So I don't think he is like every other Australian that's ever lost their job, but he said that specifically to appeal to the everyday Aussie and sort of say to them, Hey, I'm just like you, I've been wronged here. So it'll be interesting to see how the court and the court of public opinion really look on, on Kyle throughout this process. thought that was a really smart, very interesting move. And I'm really curious to see basically where he lands.

Annie Pullar: Yeah, and obviously this has been playing out for nearly a month now. Another thing that I sort of can't get out of my head is that I can't help but think ARN signed this $200 million deal with the duo without actually... And I might be dumbing down the process of this, but without actually really thinking about what happens when it all goes wrong, and now we're kind of seeing all sides paying the cost of that. ⁓ actually in an interview not long ago that the closest man in her life is Kyle, ⁓ second her dad. So ⁓ it's secret that this has been a really enduring testing but very strong relationship and ultimately ⁓ I help but think ARN has had a role to play in kind of digging this wedge ⁓ further them and turning this fight into ⁓ one legal battle potentially to get out of this ⁓ really contract that they've signed up to. ⁓ I'm no legal expert, I'm no finance expert. ⁓ If I was going to pick a side, I'd probably be putting my money behind Kyle and Jackie ⁓ in this situation.

Jodi: Yeah, I think it'd be a pretty safe bet. And what are these? What's that saying? The way you come into the world is the way you go out. feel like for a pair that made their fortunes on drama and tea, it's kind of unsurprising that they're going out in the same fashion. But there's plenty more tea here. That is all though. We have time for on this week's episode. Thank you so

Annie Pullar: Hehehehehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehhehheh

Jodi: much for joining us on covered. We'd love to hear from you. So get in touch. are covered.podcast on Instagram. Otherwise, we'll see you next week.