speaker-0: All around my body, it's colors started to swirl around my body. I started to feel this upwelling of energy in my central channel, in my spine. It felt like I plugged into a a million amp, you know, outlet. Like my everything was on fire in my center. And as this energy seemed to be rising or expressing itself, I was just getting out of the way best I could.

speaker-1: Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is a long running series of conversations with spiritually awakening people. By long running, I mean this is our seventeenth season and we've done over seven hundred and fifty of If this is new to you and you'd like to check out the previous ones, go to batcap dot com where you'll see various ways in which the interviews are organized that are actually easier to navigate than on YouTube. This whole thing is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. We don't run ads or paywalls or all that, you know, we don't have a Patreon thing with special goodies. Just what you see is what you get. But it wouldn't be possible without financial support of appreciative listeners and viewers. So if you appreciate it and would like to help support it, there are PayPal buttons on every page of the site and a page that discusses alternatives to PayPal. My guest today is a very interesting guy named Keith Parker. Keith happens to be in Bali at the moment, maybe we'll ask him why during the interview. He's a teacher, author, and healing practitioner with expertise in the human energy field, contemplative science and the healing arts. Initially he used meditation as a vehicle to understand and refine subtle states of consciousness, and over the following decade he studied movement, breath work, body work, energy work, and other disparate disciplines. During this intensive period he had a series of breakthrough experiences enabling him to see the aura with remarkable clarity. He founded something called field dynamics in twenty eighteen to help individuals with their personal growth and as a platform to exemplify the potential of energy healing. He wrote a book called Radical Reality, which I read a couple weeks ago, subtitled How seeing the Aura Reveals Who and What We Are It's an exploration of how the human energy field informs our understanding of the mind body connection, consciousness, and reality itself. But in addition to that it's a chronology of Keith's spiritual journey, which I found fascinating. I really admired the way you explored various things and went right to the heart of them, derived what benefit you could from them, and then explored something else. Initially some people might say he sounds like a dilettante, a superficial dabbler, but you were neither superficial nor dabbling. You were really getting to the meat of things and taking what you needed, leaving the rest and moving on to something else and then opening up that treasure box of possibilities. And each one of these things added a significant ⁓ set of tools to your toolbox, I would say. Is that a fair representation of what you've done?

speaker-0: Yeah, you know, some people are able to take on one kind of practice or modality, what have you, community even. They spend their whole life doing that. I have this tendency to be when I'm very interested in something, to try and understand or distill the essence of it or the the kind of the core orientation or understanding the wisdom. And then in a certain sense I almost like need to start looking around a little bit after I feel like I've done that. And connecting the dots and collecting pieces of wisdom and understanding the connection seems to be a real natural inclination of mine.

speaker-1: Yeah, you know that saying dig one deep well rather than a bunch of shallow wells and then you'll really hit water. But another way of phrasing it might be to use maybe several different tools to dig one deep well, and each tool will have certain advantages in getting you deeper in the well.

speaker-0: Yeah, I'm thinking of ⁓ like the Amazon River and the idea of tributaries. So it's almost like I don't have access to the Amazon yet, but what I do have access to is the tributaries. So what I can do is learn to swim in each of the side rivers, get familiar, and then find my way into the next stream that gets me closer to the source. And so by doing so I'm kind of reverse engineering back to the origination of where these tributaries began.

speaker-1: Nice, and hopefully not getting eaten by piranhas in the process.

speaker-0: Hopefully.

speaker-1: There's another metaphor. Mirabi Star gave a talk at a conference I was attending entitled Bees in the Garden, and she talked about how bees would go from flower to flower. They don't just stay on one flower the whole time, but they take some nectar from here and from here, some pollen from here, and ⁓ move around and then go back to the hive with something to show for it.

speaker-0: Yeah, you know, this is very reflective of I think what's happening to us as human beings right now, which is the idea of us being isolated and cut off from one another in terms of our identity and our participation with life and each other is changing quite rapidly. And this idea of understanding ourselves, allowing our identity to truly melt and diffuse and connect to others and to see ourselves as a human rather than an American or an Indonesian or as a Buddhist or as a Christian, you know, these these identities are being asked to kind of be shed and to see the deeper connections between what makes us ⁓ human in the first place and then of course what makes us existent even beyond that.

speaker-1: That's interesting. Let's explore that for a minute. Because, you know, people say there's this loneliness epidemic and it's been exacerbated by social media, which you'd think would connect us all the more, but it's made people more isolated and fragmented and polarized. And you know, there's the there's the stereotype of thirty year old men living in their parents' basement playing video games and God knows what else that they may be doing. So when you said that, it seemed like the polar opposite of what I just described. Do you feel like there's a current which is uniting and connecting us that is possibly gonna heal the fragmentation I just described?

speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's a two edged sword. This is a big picture kind of way of thinking about things is we're experimenting in a way that we have absolutely no idea what's what's going on or what's gonna happen. We have a certain kind of sustainability and stabilization within our ecosystem and culture for a very, very long time up until certain kinds of technology, industrial revolution, etcetera, and we see certain kinds of changes, the rapidity of changes in the twentieth century. But the twenty first century now is is making that, you know, pale in comparison. And what's happening is we are being inundated with so much data, so much information, so much choice that it is out of control. And we have absolutely no idea what to do with this. We don't have traditions to teach us about it. We don't have models from our previous generations for how to sift through, edit, choose, curate our experience. And what's happening is people tend to fall towards their lesser selves very often. And so there can be very poor versions of how it is that a person curates their life at this moment. But at the same time More information's available, more empowerment, more education, more information's available, more connectivity is available. I just don't think that we're able to understand the enormity of this. We're able to integrate it. And it's likely that maybe even more, the majority of people fall to the wayside than are able to take advantage of it at the moment because it's such a strong shift. It's such a strong sea change, and it's an artificial one that I don't think that many of us are equipped to be able to handle this well.

speaker-1: Interesting. I attended my first long meditation retreat in the summer of nineteen seventy for a month, and the teacher leading it at one point said he was quoting Darwin saying, The pace of change is accelerating and survival of the fittest is the law of nature. And he he used the analogy of a donkey. He said, If the load keeps increasing on the donkey, either you're gonna have to lighten the load or you're gonna have to strengthen the donkey. And he said the way the pace of change is accelerating, we may not be able to lighten the load, so you have to become stronger in order to cope with it, deal with it, thrive or flourish in the midst of it. And I think that was prophetic. That seems to be what's happening far more than maybe even he suspected it would, because with the technologies that we now have didn't exist in nineteen seventy and now they're just accelerating exponentially. Yeah. Moore's law.

speaker-0: I think that there is a natural kind of principle to this, which is that when you pressurize a system, all of the energy in that system goes somewhere. And so what's happening at the moment is I think that there's so much pressure, so much change taking place in transition that I would say that maybe the majority or the the large amount of that flow of energy is being diverted into places that are maybe not particularly beneficial. But at the same time, those who are taking advantage of this pressure change, if you will, or this these changes that are available. are actually being able to lighten the load at that such a rate that it maybe compensates for. It's like the law of polarity, you know, that there's no point at which the shadow overtakes the light or the light overtakes the darkness, so to speak. They're a yin and a yang. They can't exist without one another. And so once you kind of create this thing where the stream gets broken into parts, if you put eighty percent of the energy towards the dark and twenty percent of the energy towards the light, if you will, that twenty percent actually has in its potentiation just as much power as the 80%, because it's more concentrated. It's less diluted, if you will. So there's something to that effect happening, I think, in that people who are interested in their own inner development, being more self-conscious, being more self-aware, are able to do so at such a rapid pace and in such a an interesting manner that wasn't available before, just as people who are looking to splinter themselves, disconnect themselves, isolate themselves, suffer more, if you will.

speaker-1: Teacher I alluded to was Marashimahesh Yogi, by the way. One of the things he always emphasized is that he felt that a even a small percentage of the population, one percent, if they woke up in their consciousness, could have a outsized effect on the entire society. You know, could help to create profound degree of peace throughout the the entire population. I'll just give you one example. So In a laser, if the square root of one percent of the photons become coherent with one another, the rest of the photons step into line and the entire beam of light becomes like one coherent photon. So he he used that kind of analogy to explain how a small percentage of the population achieving a higher state of consciousness could help to shift the entire collective consciousness.

speaker-0: Yeah, I'm I'm generally on board with that.

speaker-1: That you were alluding to something like that, right?

speaker-0: Yeah, that the particularly that word coherency you use, which is a technically accurate term, when coh in a in like a chemical solution, in physical reality, I mean physics and mathematics, but I also think in in mind and psychology and in emotion, there are parallels and correlates to these things and that if we're talking about a small percentage becoming coherent, that coherency will trump or create an orderliness that actually reorganizes all the decoherence stuff. Because decoherency doesn't have a lot of power to it because it's like literally doesn't have stabilization. Whereas coherency, the whole point is that it models itself or is based on the idea of maximal connectivity, maximal organization.

speaker-1: Yeah. Very well put. There are examples in physics too, such as superfluidity ⁓ you know, at very cold temperatures and things like that. Very good. There's a lot of very profound things that you have to say and and we want to get into that. But do you want to do a quick biographical sketch? 'Cause that's what your book does. It it traces the course of your path from being a music producer and musician in Brooklyn to going through so many different like ten lifetimes in in this one, you know, going through so many different phases and quite admirably in my opinion, being willing to let go of things that were you're really very cherished in your life, but you had a kind of a higher calling that you felt or saw and said, Okay, I'm just let that go and step on to the next thing. Maybe it could give people an overview of what you've been through over the last years.

speaker-0: Sure. I'll try and be brief about it and I definitely appreciate you reading the book and taking that in.

speaker-1: I really enjoyed it. Yeah, it was a good book.

speaker-0: Thanks, Rick. I do appreciate that. You know, I felt like I needed to write a book of of a personal story. ⁓ interestingly, I'm I'm doing a lot of the things in my life right now that I specifically on some level didn't want to be doing a while ago. For instance, I'm sharing a story, making it personal. Right. So the whole idea is about breaking down the personality and making things less personal. But the thing is, is I've realized at a certain point that people connect to story, people connect person. Personality and that is something you can't remove from the way in which a human being becomes interested in something. ⁓ I'm doing healing facilitation work with people, you know, quote unquote a healer, if you will, even though I would say facilitator. That's a term and a word that really I had a problem with for an extremely long time. The idea that I would heal somebody else. Again, there's this egoic thing about it, and the whole point is really dissolving the ego to the degree that you can and not not come basically not coming from that place. It's not that the ego doesn't exist. It's just not orienting from that place within the matrix of the self, if you will.

speaker-1: Let me just interject something there. You know, you use the example of the Amazon a few minutes ago, and one thing we think about the Amazon is the fecundity and the lushness of the f flora and fauna there because the environment is just so conducive to such growth and such v diversity and variety. In my experience with supposedly enlightened people, they have actually much more vivid, lively, entertaining. funny, interesting, intelligent personalities than the norm. And yet their subjective experience may very much be that their predominant orientation is impersonal, because the wave has realized that it's actually the ocean. But it doesn't cease being a wave when it realizes it's it's the ocean. In fact, once it knows it's the ocean, it can become a tidal wave. There's so much more water that it can incorporate and rise up as. So This whole thing of people becoming impersonal or more colorless or flat in their personalities as the ego is disassembled doesn't jibe with my experience, either personally or observationally.

speaker-0: Yeah. I think like you said, more vitality. You can fill up the cup with more of what this instrument is supposed to be. This ⁓ strain in a lot of spiritual traditions, this I kind of dissociative idea of like I'm not the body, you know, I'm not my ego, these separation orientations to get one to unity or to understand oneness or non duality or what have you. The thing is, is my my experience has shown me that.

speaker-1: There's the

speaker-0: It's all happening simultaneously, and the whole point is not to cut yourself off, separate yourself off from from any of it, because it's all happening simultaneously. So none of it's not true. It's just maybe more in the language of you know, the yogis, they'd say Purushian Prakriti, or maybe in the language of Einstein, he would say something like relativity, you know, time and space is relative, you know. So this relative self is is teeth, it's the ego, it's my this body, you know, speaking to you. But at the same time, an absolute self is something else. And the absolute level is, I think, where we share and or are one or andor are infinite. And then this relative self is this vehicle and the structure that's there that you cannot change in your life in the general sense of like you have an instrument, you know, you have a saxophone, you have a guitar. It's like made by Fender, it's made by Gibson. It it has a certain tone to it, it has a certain shape. That's what you get, that's what you're working with. And the idea that you want to negate that or basically like swap it out for something else is already some kind of dissociative unfortunate thing that is a maybe a ⁓ something like a vestige from previous iterations of spiritual traditions.

speaker-1: Yeah, perhaps recluse traditions that somehow influenced non recluse portions of society and and made them more ⁓ disinterested in relative life, which is not a necessary prerequisite for higher states of consciousness and in fact might be counterindicated for someone whose dharma or natural tendency is to be involved in the world.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. The the ascetic or the the renunciate traditions, particularly that massive influence ⁓ so many of us have experienced from the eastern traditions of yoga and Buddhism and Taoism, what have you. ⁓ although Taoism is not really as ⁓ renunciate as Buddhist and yogic tendencies are. ⁓ I think that those are very representative of the masculine tendency towards ⁓ spiritual work. Whereas the the feminine is exemplified much more in an in an embracing and an embodiment in the world, which is quite different. And we obviously don't have a femin a strong feminine representation in our spiritual traditions and in the way in which we're receiving these ⁓ kind of generational bodies of wisdom. So I think that's really important to keep in mind.

speaker-1: Yeah. One of the main themes of your book I as I read it is multi-dimensionality. And ⁓ what we're talking about here is not finding the most fundamental dimension and hanging out there to the exclusion of all the other dimensions, but actually expanding the spectrum of our experience so that it incorporates all dimensions. And when you do that, then like in the rainforest when you have really fertile ground, the trees become much more, you know, vibrant and lush. our our whole relative life can be enhanced once we're tapped into that universal energy field.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I I you know, ⁓ I work a lot in ⁓ the structure of the aura and use the aura and the energy field as a teaching mechanism and furthermore as a a healing mechanism. That's what energy healing is all about. It's about learning to make changes through your aura as the structure of change. You know, like a body worker works on the body, an energy worker works on the field. And they they ⁓ the the language is actually parallel in those two domains. There are palpation skills, sensing skills. Stuck energy, flowing energy, et cetera. There's just different content within somatic oriented approaches and energetic oriented approaches. ⁓ and what you said, there's a very simple sidestep or or parallel, which is, you know, let's just imagine, as a as a certain language that makes a lot of sense. Let's just imagine that we're we're not only physical, but we're also like light. Let's just imagine that. And if we're also light, it's very simple. You look at how light behaves, and you have white light, which contains all. And then you put white light through a prism and it has seven facets. It's very straightforward, whether it be a rainbow or a prism or you know, even the days of the week that our culture has inherited. So imagine that we're, you know, not only different colors, different facets, different aspects, different bandwidths of information, but imagine we're also the white light simultaneously, because the white light is contained or the source of all those different colors. And if you don't cut yourself off from those different facets, dimensions, aspects, Then you can realize that you're all of those things in every single moment. It's not a going to and separating from, but it's a all the time, all the things.

speaker-1: Nice. Very good. I'm reminded of the definition of Brahman in Hinduism it's considered to be the totality and sometimes said to be the eater of everything. And that's what we are, according to the Upanishads. So you you don't exclude you don't become this one thing, say absolute field and exclude everything else. You actually contain everything.

speaker-0: Yeah, that that would be the idea. I am I am nothing, I am everything, I am form, I am formless, you know, all those all that good stuff.

speaker-1: Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna try to talk less and get you to talk more. So ⁓ I wanna keep you going on what you began to outline there about the trajectory you've been on.

speaker-0: Yeah, so ⁓ it's important to, you know, ⁓ disclaim and I try and do this in the book a whole lot, which is like I'm trying to come from direct experience and ⁓ I may again like have a seeming confidence or you know, a certain kind of settled nature into the way I'm speaking about things. But the truth be told is I'm most interested in the idea that we can know ourselves certain things that are really important and rather than this disempowerment, which comes from the idea that other people tell us the truth and other authorities tell us the truth and specialists know and we don't know, is that actually the most important stuff we could possibly ever engage with in life are are things that we ourselves can learn for ourselves. And that that knowledge-based idea, like true knowledge, like Grecian knowledge, Gnosis, all of these things, that is the most empowering bit that I think that we can have. And I I fear that our modern world is really, really pulled people in a different direction where they constantly are outsourcing what they call truth to other authorities, other sources, et cetera. So where I'm coming from, what I tried to do in the book and where I generally come from is is the best I can coming from from a place of humility, even if I sound confident and settled in what I'm saying, really coming from a place of humility and saying, here's my best version of things. Here's my best map of things. And when it comes to field dynamics and energy work in the aura and these kinds of things. We call these working models, meaning they're they're hypotheses based on the best data we have available. And we're saying like let's just put something up there on the board and say this is the best we got ⁓ based on our interpretation. And if it changes, it changes. That's great. But at least we can move things forward. And and this is a quasi scientific approach in the sense that we're just we're understanding that models change and potentially improve, but we also have to have language to discuss what's the best version of things we have at the moment. And so I'm I'm trying to kind of straddle that that very fine line of telling things or sharing things that seem conclusive and at the same time being open to being completely wrong and also not to be ⁓ stressed if somebody says, You know what, you're wrong, I'd have a completely different point of view. I say, That's great. Thank you for sharing that point of view. So it's important to say that at the beginning.

speaker-1: love that. ⁓ Aldous Huxley commented that the most important innovation of the scientific revolution was the development of the working hypothesis. And obviously the scientific revolution ⁓ came right after the Middle Ages in which you could be burned at the stake for contradicting the imposed belief that the church or some authority was trying to ram down everybody's throats and so I really ad ⁓ resonate with what you said. I I treat all these ideas as working hypotheses, which doesn't mean you're just you're skeptical of them all. It means that some of them have less evidence to support them, some of them some of them have more, but they could always be falsified if there's some evidence came along to do that.

speaker-0: Yeah, and of course the Thomas Kuhn and the nature of scientific revolutions is that where is always going to be paradigm shifts and anybody would be extremely foolish to think that whatever the current collective paradigm is at the moment is going to stick. And it's very likely, with all the technology and science happening right now, that in the next two or three or four decades we're going to have an absolute paradigm shift in our understanding of reality from a scientific perspective. And I do think my my projection, my presumption is is that what it's going to look like in its in its next phase or next iteration shortly to come is that it's actually going to look a lot more like all the spiritual traditions talk about because we're going to get a a kind of a phase inversion ⁓ or an inversion of the paradigm, meaning it things are going to kind of turn inside out based on our beliefs. Like for example, this idea that we're, you know, materially based and that's the fundamental, I think is going to be shown to not be true. I think it's already been shown not to be true. But I think it's going to be settled science. It's going to be academicized, so to speak. In the not so far future. ⁓ and that's my hope is that this twenty first century isn't the century in which AI and technology gets out of hand and we go to outer space and all this stuff. I'm actually hoping that the primary thing that as we reflect back in hundreds of years if we're still around, that the primary thing we look back on in the twenty-first century is an integration of the hundreds and thousands of years beforehand, an integration of the spiritual and wisdom traditions of the world with the scientific technology that came in the few hundred years before it. I think that those two things fusing is the greatest thing that can happen in the next, you know, eighty years or so.

speaker-1: Absolutely. Yeah. It's it's very inspiring to hear you say that. I mean I it's one of my favorite things. I and Thomas Kuhn's book was one of my favorite books. but I I think we're very much in the midst of that paradigm shift right now, although you very often can't see paradigm shifts when you're in the midst of them. You know?

speaker-0: Right, right. ⁓ you know, I'm not that I'm not that up on like what happens in the academic world, you know, and and how a piece of, you know, irrefutable conclusive ⁓ study comes out and it's like, whoa, that just completely breaks down the current paradigm. How long does that take to actually work its way into the textbooks? You know, but we have things that have already happened in the past ten, fifteen years, and I mentioned some of these in my book that already show you that whatever model we're working with is just incorrect. You know, so whether it be the, you know, findings at the ⁓ large Hadron collider about like the amplitahedron and the nature of time and space being ⁓ unity based and ⁓ like that time and space is b effectively an illusion and that everything comes out of a single point. Or you know that in ⁓ the Blue Brain project, you know the brain modeling taking place over in Switzerland that already has conclusive evidence going back ten years ago That your brain doesn't function in three dimensions, that it's actually a higher dimensional interface kind of biological aspect, meaning we think that the brain must be something that coordinates length, width, and height in f in physical space, but actually the language of the brain is higher dimensional geometry. And w they don't know what to do with those findings, but they know that they're correct, because the only way the language of the brain works is to understand this higher dimensional orientation. And I'm sure we'll get to that in this in this conversation.

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, I I I hadn't heard of that and I want to hear more about it in this conversation. ⁓ that that's very interesting. And w I guess one of the main themes of your book, and we haven't quite articulated it, is that the the fundamental assumption for ⁓ who knows how long has been that c s the brain somehow creates consciousness. and when your brain dies, consciousness dies. And what what you're alluding to is that it's the other way around. That consciousness is fundamental and the brain is more like a transmitter receiver instrument that ⁓ interfaces with a ubiquitous field and the field doesn't get destroyed or snuffed out when the brain dies.

speaker-0: Yeah, the the right. The body would be an antenna of sorts, the brain being the primary kind of, you know, stick in the center there, and the nervous system being the main thing that coordinates the information that's non physical and non local to your physical body. ⁓ like we're kind of like walking radios, if you will. ⁓ and so yeah, that that idea is nothing is certainly not new coming from me, but I think there's a lot of stuff that that shows us this. And unfortunately our language has gone in the opposite direction in the mainstream. So so often people say things like, ⁓ my brain isn't working today, or my brain can't compute these things. It's like and it has nothing to do with your brain. It's it's called your mind. And your mind is not your brain. It's just they're not the same thing. And there's this confusion in our culture that brain and mind are the same. And there's there's nothing that suggests that they are. There's only correlation between the two, but they're not the same thing. Like the idea of it being the same is absolutely unproven.

speaker-1: Yeah, but the correlation is important. Like you drop your radio in the shower and it smashes and you would say, My radio isn't working today, I've got to get new radio or have it fixed. So, you know, the music th that you listen to every morning is still in the electromagnetic field, but y your radio can't pick up on it anymore. So, you know, drink a six pack and your brain isn't working very well and thus your mind, they are correlated.

speaker-0: Yes, the the correlation is there. ⁓ no no denying that. It's the the content itself is not the brain itself. And that's the thing where the the gap is and that ⁓ you know, it's it's such a significant thing and yet some things get adopted in this way very unconsciously where we s we kind of take on certain phrases and ways of thinking that we don't realize there's a belief behind it. And so when we refer to the mind as the brain all the time, what we're doing is we're concretizing this idea that we're just physical. And the whole point of all this is you said, this like kind of causal idea of like what causes what. You know, the yogis are very good with this, the causal body, right? It's how does causation work? And so is it from the ground up, meaning is it from the body to the mind to, you know, question mark spirit, or is it from something that all spiritual traditions everywhere from every corner of the world have always said, which is something more like it starts as spirit or something amorphous, infinite, what have you, source, and then it trickles down or descends, if you will, into mind and then matter, and matter is the end of the line in terms of the concretization or the densification of something more ethereal.

speaker-1: Yeah. Perhaps this relates to that research that you mentioned that's happening in Switzerland, but I've I've heard some people say that they think that memory itself isn't necessarily just stored in the neurons of our brain somehow, but it's kind of in the cloud, you know, the way we would back up our hard drive to the cloud. And ⁓ and this could account for past life memories and stuff like that, which, you know, we're having even though we have a completely different brain than we had in the past life.

speaker-0: Yeah, ex okay, exactly. So let's let's use this moment to to start talking about the aura a little bit. And I we will get to some ⁓ bi biographical stuff at some point, but

speaker-1: That's the way your book was anyway. You kind of segued between biographical stuff and cool philosophical stuff and then back again. So we'll we'll just do

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. So, okay. Forever there's been this terminology in certain esoteric traditions, this idea of a thought form that that thoughts have actual like structure. And there's a weird reference that I I like to make, which is that back in the beginning of the twentieth century, Napoleon Hill, this guy thinking grow rich, who's like kind of the Tony Robbins of his day, if if that's even fair. But the idea of like a self help guru, right? ⁓ He went around and he asked all these different very, very ⁓ you know, successful people in the world. He said, What's the secret? What's your secret? How is it that you're so powerful, rich, ⁓ successful? And he said, There's one continuity, one thread between all of these people's wisdom that they gave me. They said, The secret is that the mind is a is a structure, that th that that thoughts are things that that actually when you think, when you intend, you are actually creating in a particular domain that that What we see is physical reality exists, but what is a more of an energetic one is that the mind has a domain of existence that is separate and or connected to this one. And so your field is an electromagnetic thing. If we want to use basic language, we would say that you have a physical body, which is material and chemical, but you also have an energy field. The energy field is electromagnetic in nature. It's a very fancy multidimensional, higher dimensional electromagnetic field. But in the most basic sense, it's the difference between what we call matter and energy or matter and electromagnetic fields. Now, electromagnetic fields are non-physical. They're not they don't conform to physicality, they're not considered matter, they don't play by the same rules. And really, when you distill an electromagnetic field down certain things, you might get, for instance, the phenomenology of light itself, right? So light itself is an electromagnetic phenomenon and that determines what we call time and space. And you just go down the rabbit hole of like just considering this work in the road that says What if we're also energetic? And if we're also energetic, then what's that substrate of energy? If the substrate of energy is electromagnetic fields, and we were to just at least play with the idea that we're physical and electromagnetic at the same time, we have these completely different domains with different rules that are happening in coordination with one another. So let's just posit that the field is an electromagnetic object. It's a it's a fancy electromagnetic thing. And Given that it's an electromagnetic thing, ⁓ what is the what are the objects in that domain? So if you could see the energy fields in the way that I do, or if you look at any different kind of like clairvoyance or aura sears or spiritual esoteric traditions, you would see that they all talk about the idea that emotions and thoughts are things that you can see in the aura. You can quite literally see that at any given moment, all of the actions, all of the movements of mind have a domain of existence and expression and that is in subtler domains in energy. So your field is this big electromagnetic kind of turbine, if you will, and it really does look like a turbine. It looks like a toroi a tube torus, like a donut. And there's a central channel right through its center, a vertical axis. This is called the Shishumna by the yogis, all the chakras are along there, your spine is along there the line ⁓ along that that vertical axis. It kind of exce extends out to the side, kind of like a donut shape. And all the time it's circulating and moving. So if you could look in the mirror and you were to see your field, your physical body would be static, even though at a microscopic level you'd see that the physical body is undulating and moving, you know, at capillary level and blood flow and have you. But it looks static to our the level of resolution our eyesight gives us. But the field would just be circulating and moving nonstop. It never stops moving. And the flow of energy is up and down through its vertical axis, and it's every single angle that you could possibly imagine within a circle. It has that potential of being exploring every infinite gradation of angular momentum and movement within your ⁓ within a circle. So all of this energy that's flowing is reflective of the thoughts and emotions that you're having in every given moment. So imagine like you're thinking consciously or unconsciously, right? I'm thinking of lunch, I'm thinking of a memory of childhood, I'm having an emotion of sadness. All these things are literally blooming, creating structures in the field in every single moment that you're having them. And not only are you generating these things in every single moment, and those the generation of those things create ⁓ torsion and force and momentum in the field. They literally create structure, and then that structure flows into how the field is flowing. But also all of the information that has ever happened in your entire life is encoded and stored in that same field. Everything. It's like a recording device that has basically infinite storage. Talk about a fancy hard drive. So ⁓ you know. This is more of the reality of the field is that it is the space in which, you know, my I move my arm, I move my body, but I move my mind and my field has a structure that correlates with that. And all the time we're having mental movements as all meditators know. You can't control the fact that your mind is constantly kind of moving, kind of spewing out objects, meaning thoughts.

speaker-1: That was really great. let me probe a little bit on the electromagnetic field idea. So as as we know, the electromagnetic field has all these different frequencies, ⁓ from very slow to very fast. And you know, visible light is someone said that if you could if the electromagnetic field were represented by the Mississippi River, then visible light would be like the size of a turtle or something like that on the river. It was just a little small fraction of the entire spectrum. And ⁓ and cell phone signals, X rays, ultraviolet rays, all these different things are just different frequencies of the electromagnetic field. So you're saying that the mind itself is literally you're not using that as a as a metaphor. You're saying the mind is literally a part of the spectrum of the of the electromagnetic field. Is that what you're saying?

speaker-0: Yes, but it it does I it in my modeling and my hypothesis it gets a little bit complicated and also a little bit ⁓ daring in terms of why is it that we can't measure it? You know, why is it as simple as like if you could take the best spectrometer on the planet, which a lot of laboratories do, and you just expand expand the range of a frequency detection device and you say, Well, yeah, we can detect gamma rays and microwaves and all these different things, like you're saying, wouldn't we then detect thoughts and forms and all these things that I'm saying exist in these different frequencies. And the answer is nobody has done that yet because they can't detect anything because they're not looking they're not barking up the right tree. And this is where things get extremely complicated and weird and esoteric. And it's conjecture on my part, but it's my best guess and understanding. Okay. It kind of works like this. This is about multidimensionality. So multi-dimensionality means there's more than one dimension. We generally think of the idea of three dimensions, that being length width and height And then science posits this idea of a fourth dimension called time. That to me is the big gap. That's the big missing step. That's not understood that time is a single dimension. I don't think that's true whatsoever. I think what's misunderstood is that when we're talking about the fields, we are crossing over from the material domain, matter, to the psychological and emotional domain. And what that means is that we're actually exploring something that exists in a domain, in a format. that is basically not detectable if we think of it as matter. If we think of it within the domain of of matter and space. Okay. So have you ever seen ⁓ many people here will know about a Mobius strip. Sure. Okay. So a Mobius strip, right, just 'cause I'm explaining this for people who might not know. A Mobia strip is just where you an MC Escher is a famous artist who would do a lot of depictions of Mobius strips. So a Mobius strip is just simply where you take like a piece of paper, you cut a long strip, and then you twist the paper and put it back together. And if your eye runs along the the surface of the Mobius strip, you what you see is that your eye follows the the surface. And then at a certain point when it inverts, when it turns inside out, your eye kind of goes, What what just happened? I can't f I can't follow it. It like disappears, right? Now, that's exactly what I believe is happening in our energy system and this transition between what we would call physical reality. And psychological reality and the kind of the domain of electromagnetism that I'm speaking of, which is currently not detectable by instrumentation. And that is that when we actually go to measure things, what it requires to go to higher dimensions is that we have to be able to follow frequency curves, follow frequency activity, going from what we think of as the three-dimensional orientation of length, width, and height, to actually being able to follow the curve. Curve inversion where something actually turns inside out on itself through center. Now, this is our heart chakra in our energy system, where you have the equilibrium point between above and below. And it's the idea that can we like we don't even I don't I've never even heard of a scientist even considering this, let alone trying it. I wouldn't even know where to begin. But I can tell you from the from an experiential standpoint, this is what it it feels like to. kind of gain access or to open up to these domains. And it also makes a lot of sense from a logical standpoint. What we're talking about with multidimensionality, and here's here I'll do my ⁓ I told you I was going to do something really silly with graphics, so I'll do it. Okay. So look, I this is a really heady concept and this is not something that I just arrived at casually and it's gonna twist things and pretzels for people and everything, but I'm I'm gonna go with it because we're we're talking about it anyway. Okay. It it's it is very hard to describe these things. ⁓ but hopefully this gives us a sense. Imagine that we have this multidimensional system, right? And meaning the lower dimensions are what we call physical reality. Lower the lower dimensions, like if you if you say that there's a frequency band of information, and then the under underlying that frequency band of information is the construction or representation of something. Okay. And that something in the lower dimensions is called physical reality. And if people want to think numbers, it's really straightforward, think seven. Seven chakras, seven dimensions, okay. ⁓ the number seven has three above, three below, and one in the center. Okay. So the lower three are what we call physical reality. It's also, if I really were to push things, and this could be very confusing because the language can be very confusing, it's also what I would call space. Like t the the word space appropri is is appropriate to that. It's called space. Lower three dimensions. Now, here I am in space. Here's me. See this person? Yeah.

speaker-1: ⁓ Yes.

speaker-0: So it's like ⁓ very fancy graphics, very expensive stuff, right? Very high tech. Here's a stick figure on a piece of paper. Now if I bend the paper a little bit, there's three dimensions. It's length, width, and height. Okay. Length width and height. Now that's all of us. That we we all live and experience ourselves in this physical membrane where we look in a mirror and we see this reflection back to us and we go, ⁓ that's me, that's my body. That's it. I I begin and end there. That's all I know of myself. What we don't realize is that we're inside of a higher dimensional system. That actually that the physical reality is encoded, embedded within a more complex informational system. It's not as simple as physical, right? So if I take this stick figure on a 3D, so to speak, and then I fold it, and then I fold it, each fold is a dimension, right? And I keep folding it, the stick figure continues to see itself on those three dimensional membranes, but it doesn't realize because it cannot perceive based on its sensory apparatus, its natural sensory apparatus, cannot see that it's inside of a more complex system. It does not realize that. Now this is exactly what brain science has recently discovered in the Blue Brain Project. The Blue Brain Project in Switzerland, what they did is they took a bunch of data, they calculated as much as they possibly could through supercomputers, how does the brain communicate with itself? And very surprisingly, this is 10 years old now. Very surprisingly what they found is the communication language of the brain is higher dimensional Geometry. Now they don't know what to do with that, but what they're saying is that your brain does not coordinate in length, width, and height. It does not coordinate in physical reality. It's communicating with something different, higher dimensions. This is what your aura is. This is what mind is, so to speak, and this is that transition from lower dimensions to higher dimensions, from body to mind, and in this really weird way, and this is confounding, I think, from space to time. This this is like space time and this is part of what I get into in my book as like a grand kind of hypothesis towards the end is that ⁓ the mind itself is occupies time. That if if you really start to think about it, your body is in space and your mind is in time. And if we think of the objects of mind as being past, present and future, so to speak, that's the orientation, it's the configuration or the triangulation of time, past, present, future, just as length, width and height is in in space. And they're they're they're basically ⁓ what do you call them? A symmetry. There's like a a symmetry to it. The idea that they're parallel, correlate, connected, reflective. And everything, the more I keep working in this domain energetically, I see that everything that's happening psychologically is reflected physically. That they're they're actu that everything physical in a certain sense is a representation of a thought. And that all things physical are actually encoded kind of strings of energy kind of manifest and represented as something that we just kind of casually go, ⁓ yeah, that's a plant. That's a rock, that's an animal, that's a sky. And we just kind of are casual with it. But all of these things are actually in a weird way, they're they're they're kind of poetic. They're they're like an interpretation of a more psychological quality represented externally. And those things in that psychological domain to me are happening in more of the language of what I would say is time rather than space. Now I know that's not a complete explanation, but I'm starting to bark up the tree a little bit. So the language of of dimensions starts really with understanding the language of geometry, and those are what the platonic solids are. So all of the traditions in the world talk about geometry, sacred geometry as a really important thing. And I I go into this extensively in my book, right? All of the chakras ⁓ in the yogic iconography, what they're represented as are geometry number one, right? And so you have geometry meaning shape, or you have sound, or you have color. These are the three things, right? So color being the seven colors of the rainbow. The shape, which is the geometric aspect, or the sound, which are like bija mantras. Sound and light and shape are all conversions, all representations of frequency. So people like this might seem like a weird idea, but you can take a you know violet light can be converted into shape. Or the sound ⁓ can be converted into a shape. They're all just encoding information, and geometry is the most universal of all of them because it's so simple. And so what is the master form of geometry? Well, it's a circle. A circle contains everything, it represents infinity. And we started by talking about our field as this tube torus, which is a a donut shape. It's a circle. Right? If you think of a tube torus, a tube torus is like a donut, and if you looked at a donut from above, what would you see? You'd see a circle within a circle. Right? So it's infinity within infinity, so to speak. And the the center circle or the donut hole, which is in a sense empty. ⁓ that's where our crown chakra is and it drops down the center of the system and it starts from a circle which is infinite and then there are these different geometries that move down and get less and less complex in general as you move down from the higher dimensions to the lower dimensions. And each of those geometries are describing a frequency range. So just like you would turn on a television and switch between different channels and you know there's MSNBC and NBC and ABC and Fox and what have you, they're broadcasting a certain frequency band based on the specifications. The chakras are literally that. They are like the descriptions of the frequency bands of the different dimensions, the kind of information being broadcast through the different levels of the field. And so the geometry is a is a language that helps to organize these things. And ⁓ Buckminster Fuller did a really good job of showing us that you can start with very complex geometries like a dodecahedron in his in his thing called the jitterbug. Where you can take like a dodecahedron or icosahedron, which is what the platonic solids are at the upper end, meaning the ether, the ether element, right? We st we have the four elements and then the fifth element's called ether, or in the yogic tradition it's called akasha or space. So from space or nothingness is the formation of things, right? And in the sense of Buckminster Folder, he s he showed you that if you take that dodecahedron, that ether element, that space element, you can actually take the geometry and you can rotate it and fold it and it will pack itself in. to simpler and simpler geometries and it'll become a tetrahedron at the bottom, become just a simple ⁓ triangle at the bottom. So that's showing you that all of the lower dimensions fit inside of the higher dimensions. Just like the piece of paper that I was folding up, all of the lower dimensions fit inside of the higher dimensions. And it's again, it's like this iceberg idea. We look at reality, we see an iceberg, and we think it's just the tip of the iceberg because that's all we see. But actually the majority of reality is underneath the water. Just like we look at ourselves and we see our physical body and we think that's all it is, but where do we actually live life? The dominant amount of real estate or journey that we have in life is in the mental domain, and that's much, much bigger, much grander, much more elastic than the physical ⁓ domain is. You know, you can you can create, imagine, and be anywhere or anything at any moment through the mind, right? Whereas there's a significant constraints in physical reality, and I think that that's the the The training mechanism, that's the learning mechanism of the domain of of physicality, is to have this be a constraint, you know, and to fit your ideas into physical reality and find some congruity.

speaker-1: Hmm. The whole ocean squeezed into a drop, as one teacher once said. ⁓ let me ask another question about the electromagnetic field thing, and perhaps this will lead us into a description of your personal experience more. But ⁓ you know, we have instruments that can probably measure just about all the frequencies of the electromagnetic field, I assume. I'm I don't know for sure, but you know, the vast range of them can be measured by various instruments. But then when you consider ⁓ and I've always thought, well Maybe the reason these inst instruments can't detect the mind or s angels or you know other subtle phenomena, auras for instance, is that the instruments are really rather s crude by compared with the complexity of the human makeup. And I don't just mean the human physical makeup which isn't infinite which is incredibly complex but But as you were saying, all the all the subtler levels of the human makeup with all the different chakras and the subtle body and the levels of the subtle body and all that stuff, ⁓ when that gets enlivened and awakened, then you know we can reside on all these different dimensions ⁓ simultaneously and we can see beings which also reside on subtle dimensions but not on the gross, such as angels. ⁓ So that was more of a statement than a question, but ⁓ And and you said earlier that we're in an age where ⁓ and perhaps in the in the coming decades where science and spirituality will conjoin and supplement one another, co collaborate with one another to to gain a much fuller appreciation of reality. And I think that'll be what I just said will be part of it, that you know, we pos spiritual technologies, if you want to call ⁓ that, possess capabilities that scientific technologies have shown you know, incapable of of having. ⁓ s all the subtle stuff that s most scientists would dispute even exists, spiritual ⁓ explorers have been perceiving that for millennia.

speaker-0: The the caveat with measuring the aura is simple, right? There are two primary things I'm bringing up. I'm not a scientist trying to do this in a lab, but this is what I imagine they would bump up against. Number one, how do you invert frequency detection go by going through center, which is that ⁓ Mobius strip idea that I talked about? How do you how do you even do that? I don't have no idea. This is higher dimensional geometric measurement. I have no idea how that's done in a lab. I know how it's done within my own system. I know how it's done when other people are practicing kind of energy healing practice, but from to measure it objectively in a lab is something I have absolutely no idea how somebody would approach. You'd have to talk to experts in Clifford algebra and higher dimensional topology and things like that if that's even something that can be measured objectively. The other aspect that's also really confusing about ⁓ and probably a limitation in the lab is you'd be going from measuring the physical domain and things that we we would account for as being objectively existent to a psychological domain which is subjectively existent, which is like, what is that? How do you how would you even begin to measure that? What does that mean? You know, there's this limitation, the idea that the scientists can't remove themselves from the measurement themselves, because the act of observation has to be employed at some point to ascertain what is being measured, right? So all of a sudden we're hit with that really confounding issue, that bypass, which is all of a sudden the scientist's domain of perception itself is being put into what is being measured, right? So it's I it's totally beyond me. I have absolutely no idea. But what I'm saying is these are the reasons I think why the furthest we've gotten with ⁓ today's technology is called bioelectricity. And bioelectricity is simply ⁓ a a growing field of of knowledge that understands that your body can't exist without electricity. Right? If you shut your heart off, you're done. It's called me that sound, right? And so and so you're not existing outside of an electromagnetic ⁓ field component. It's just how significant is that? And bioelectricity seems to be starting to scratch the surface with measuring the most superficial interface in which the field and the body interact. But this higher dimensional model is where you get deeper and deeper and layered and layered. And it goes so many twists and turns from the physical interface that it's very, very far off by the time you get really deep into it. It's very inclusive. It's very broad. It it contains all of that which is below.

speaker-1: Explain how it is you got to the point where you could see auras and ⁓ and what your living experience is, what your day to day experience is. Do you see ⁓ when you're walking down the street? Do you see ⁓ when you're in the supermarket, or do you have to kinda like be in a special environment such as your your ⁓ craniosacral treatment center or something and really tune in before they become apparent? Okay.

speaker-0: This this is good. So I'm gonna I'll ⁓ let me hop into the biographical thing just a little bit. so ⁓ to get to that, to connect that those dots. ⁓ so I started off being more of like an atheist growing up and very interested in science and consciousness and ⁓ at a certain point what happened was ⁓ because of my own ⁓ inner discontent in life, I did what many people did is I started to look within and I discovered that meditation and being attendant to the present moment really gave some sort of an answer to my own sense of dis ease, very deep level of dis-ease. Despite however good or nice or successful my outer world seemed, I just didn't feel okay inside. And so I started to look at different things and particularly meditation and the moment was the thing. And I became really attracted to Buddhist and yogic traditions and I spent about this is when I was about twenty eight years old, I wound up spending about four or five years basically meditating like pretty much all day, like kind of practicing yoga, meditating, just like living a renunciate life where the only thing I did, and I was so energized and so attendant and obsessive about this, I basically just obsessed with getting clear about settling my ⁓ my mind, settling myself into the present moment best as possible, be be becoming somatically aware, becoming grounded, and just being able to be present con continuously as best as possible. And I went through all of these kind of deep trainings in meditation and samadhi and jhana development, kind of a Olympic level meditation skills kind of stuff, you know, where you really, you really go hardcore into meditation as far as you can. And I developed all these kinds of skills and, you know, abilities and what have you. And and my goal was the ending of suffering. My goal was like, hey, I wanna know what's going on here. Like what is this whole body mind thing? What's what is reality? Like what are these traditions talking about? Enlightenment and awakening. These are really cool sounding, you know, nirvana, like I liked the band in the nineties, but the Buddhist the Buddhist version of Nirvana sounds really cool, you know? Like what's that all about? Ending suffering, like realizing the nature of being, like what like what are these things? You know, the words on the page were in ⁓ interpretable from a from a like a I know what it means from a logical standpoint, but experientially I didn't know what that stuff meant. So ⁓ again, I did about four and a half, five years of this and absolutely obsessed, and and at a certain point something happened and I was ⁓ kind of back into the the world. I had spent three and a half, four years kind of leaving the world and I spent a lot of time in India. And then I wound up coming back, moving from New York to Los Angeles, and I started to do healing work with people. I started to learn healing modalities, craniocral work. I was teaching meditation and yoga at different studios in LA. And I had this evening where I was practicing asana and my energetic sensitivity had gone up significantly in the year or two prior because of training to do ⁓ body work with people and craniosacral work. So I started to get very interested in energy, but, you know, I could only vaguely sense energy. It was like a kind of a ⁓ yeah, I can sense something moving and what have you and ⁓ and I started to see kind of weird things around people sometimes when I would have them on the table, you know, distortions around their body, distortions around like when an emotion would arise, I would feel it empathically, very deeply all of a sudden, and started to have these very energetic experiences, but it wasn't clear. You know, it was but it was interesting. One night I'm doing a ⁓ a a yoga practice. I do a forward bend where I'm just, you know, bending straight forward with my my my knee over my thigh and I hear a snap in my s my sacrum. I hear this pop and I feel my whole sacrum go into place, like my whole pelvic structure realigned. And within thirty seconds I started to feel a burning in my coccycks and my in my lower pelvis, and I was like what was happening and it kept getting stronger and stronger and I was like starting to worry a little bit because it was what what is inducing this. I started to realize something very special was taking place. And I went and I stood in front of a mirror and I just said, let it let it happen, let it go, let it be. And as I looked in the mirror and just kind of just let go and just just stayed present, all of a sudden, like all around my body, it's colors started to swirl around my body. I started to feel this upwelling of energy in my central channel, in my spine. It felt like I plugged into a a million amp, you know, outlet. Like my everything was on fire in my center. And as this energy seemed to be rising or expressing itself, I was just getting out of the way best I could. ⁓ there were these series or stages of moments where I had to kind of say, Am I willing to let go now? Am I am I kind of willing to be okay with letting go? And the best way I can describe it is the letting go was this ⁓ full kind of reinforced sense of if you let go, you don't exist. And I don't mean it from like a, ⁓ I can watch myself letting go and not existing. It was literally if you let go into this moment, the sense of you that's choosing to let go will not exist. You you disappear. And I I just kind of went, okay, like let's go with it. Like fine. I'll be the guy who dies on the meditation cushion kind of thing. Like they'll find me in the room and I'll have died because of, you know, some kind of spiritual experience, what have you. So I let go and I just Poof, I kind of disappeared in a sense, or something changed. And then the energy would continue to change and rise. And there was this series of kind of sequence of things over the course of twenty or thirty minutes, and all of this auric energetic stuff was taking place. I was seeing orbs appearing in front of my body, this giant green s sphere appeared in front of my chest. ⁓ stuff was swirling around me. All of the lines of energy opened up in my arms and my legs. I could feel all the meridians, I could sense all of these weird little cups. cones coming out of the center of my body, the chakras, and it was just crazy. And it just, you know, kept kind of getting stronger and stronger. And in a weird way, it almost turned into something quieter and quieter as well as I kept kind of stepping us beside. ⁓ I had I had worked my way up to this experience in a way, you know, and this is traditional Kundalini stuff. And the next day I woke up and all of this was permanently in par in my experience. I I ⁓ you know, energy was swirling through me 247 ⁓ I was seeing weird stuff everywhere around people, around myself. my body was just overcharged, my nervous system was going absolutely crazy, and it was like this i incredibly energetic period for two or three years where I didn't know what was happening necessarily. I kind of knew, but I also didn't know, and my mind always wants to grab onto things and say, like, please explain, please put I want to put it in a box rather than being comfortable with the circle. And so I needed to study things. So I started to study all these very strange esoteric traditions. Was it bliss?

speaker-1: Was it was there a l ⁓ upwelling of bliss ⁓ associated with this?

speaker-0: ⁓ there was a very significant and profound amount of joy and bliss. ⁓ and ⁓ also I would say ⁓ a quiet a quiet kind of emptiness to it ⁓ was the pervading kind of feeling was that you know, the thing is is this happened and it was a flash, it was a it was an evening, but I also had spent years prior and had developed a lot of the the jhana qualities and and jhana samadhi qualities are like the stepping stones usually to this kind of stuff happening from a conscious and ⁓ cultivation standpoint. So I had kind of settled into a lot of rapture states in meditation and a lot of states of emptiness where on reflection some certain jhanas and samadhi had already kind of happened, if you will. But this was a ⁓ in my opinion, the Kundalini traditions, what they're describing is the underlying structure which kind of maps out traditional awakening and enlightenment because these structures, these things called granthis When these things come off, you have a permanent dissolution of the kind of frequency fences that keep perception open transparently all the time to these domains.

speaker-1: Grunties are like knots that have to be dissolved.

speaker-0: Yeah, they're called they're usually translated as psychic knots and traditionally there are three Granthis and the three Granthis to me correlate to the three the three ⁓ Danteons in in Taoism. It would be it would well usually the Granthis are positioned at at the root or the sacral, like pelvis, then the heart and then the head. Okay. ⁓ but but what they do is they split up your ⁓ they split up your ⁓ your bodies, if you will. So the lower Granthi opens up and it's basically your physical body. This is the lower Dantian, it's the vital body, those lower three dimensions, the lower three chakras. So your your perception of the energies underlying the vital body become extremely heightened if the lower Granthi opens up because the frequency range, the information becomes available for those lower three centers very clearly as opposed to before. Then if the middle granthi opens up, your heart opens up, that's the astral body, the astral domain. And then you have this clear perception of the astral, which is its own domain, its own weird paradoxical domain of the astral, and we'll get into that. And then the upper Granthi is what opens up to what is traditionally called the light body. And the light body is where we're talking about sacred geometry and pure electromagnetic fields are the organizational structure in the higher dimensions. That's dimensions five, six, and seven. Again, above, below, middle, number seven, right? Lower three is physical body, upper three is pure mental. And the middle is the astral, which is this transition zone. It's the it's the slipknot where the Mobius strip has to go through the center, your heart has to go through the center and it it has a phase inversion. And that's why the heart and the astral are all this very confounding paradoxical domain of experience when you get into astral stuff. Because it's like thoughts are things and things are thoughts and it's this weird in between that isn't one thing or the other. It's both at the same time.

speaker-1: Good. So keep elaborating on all this and and the kinds of experiences you had related to each of these main three levels. I have questions about ⁓ whether this ⁓ made you kind of spacey or less ⁓ less effective in activity or actually more effective and whether whether things you would do could dampen it down or enhance it and all kinds of questions. So you just keep rip keep going.

speaker-0: So ⁓ so I you know, people have these kinds of experiences spontaneously all over the world without ever thinking about spirituality or awakening or any of those things. It just happens to people. And that's one of those these weird things about the phenomenology of awakening, which is that many people experience this stuff without intending it, wanting it, or preparing for it whatsoever. So we have to trust Yeah. So we have to trust that there's some process happening, there's some something, right? ⁓ I was somebody who was cultivating it consciously for many years. So I pr I s I prepped my body, I prepped my mind, and in particular I was very I was very ⁓ f full on with meditation and that quality of being able to be quiet and observant is the number one thing to allow things to change. Sure. So when this happened, there was a certain level of destabilization I would describe, which is simply that There was so much more energy flowing through me. You know, I would say something like, you know, imagine my bio engine was running at a hundred CC's. You I was I was able to go like fifty miles an hour. Okay. All of a sudden I was able to drive at 400 miles an hour. It was just so much faster. And there was so much energy moving through me every moment, every day for at least the first two or three years that my nervous system had to catch up. And then in particular, I also especially the first year and a half, two years after this, I had to work through so much inner shadow work that I've never experienced before. So because the astral opened up the the domain adjacent to the physical, and the astral to me is where our emotions are being expressed. This is the model that we use in field dynamics. That the astral is primarily basically what we would call the juice of emotion ⁓ and dreaming and desire, what the what the heart expresses. And so when the second granthi opens up in general and and people have different experiences. Sometimes only the lower Granthi opens and then this pressure moves up the system and it doesn't kind of pop off the second Granthi. You have to build up more vitality, if you will. But for me I had all of them seemingly come off at once or probably the lower two came off and the third one came off about a year and a half later that I document in the book. And when the astral opens up, you are being given access to your shadow and your emotional center in a way that is completely otherworldly. So I spent a year and a half in this incredibly intense place in myself in that all of a sudden when I would drop in in meditation, within seconds I was able to access pure emotion, raw emotion, in a way that the sensation of emotion itself went up tenfold. And that meant not only within myself, but wi in terms of relating to others as well. So the intensity of emotion, the intensity of feeling. I called it hyper feeling for a while there because it was so beyond what I had ever experienced. ⁓ it gave me access to processing my inner stuff much more quickly. And this is sometimes suggested in certain traditions and by people is that that's the point, is that it in a stepwise kind of linear fashion. when you open up this Granthi, what happens is is you can turn over your emotional baggage so much more quickly, so much more efficiently, that, you know, that's in part why it's happening that you're you're kind of being given this access is to process that stuff, which you have to in order to be able to move forward with state stability. ⁓ so you said like, was I was I out of it? Was I sleepy? Was I dreamy? In general I was quite stable. Because I had done all this preparation, I was extremely vital in life. I was living very, very healthy. I already had an extremely you know, committed practice. And so it just simply diverted my practice and shifted things for me to conform to what my ⁓ what my attention was going to. So immediately within the first six months of this happening, I went from doing a traditional meditation and yoga practice and pranayama to all of a sudden starting to study all these kinds of subtle energy practices. Because When I would pay attention, what was happening was I could see clearly and directly that everything that was happening physically was actually informed by an informational energetic scaffolding behind it. This is the higher dimension, lower dimension model that we're talking about, where everything physical is encoded in higher dimensions. Like we understand this from computer science now and data. Like you look at a a screen. Right. You look at a computer screen, you see this organized template. It's like this app or this thing, whatever. But behind it is code. Right. So it's the exact same thing in your field in the sense that behind everything we experience physically, there's an informational architecture behind it that we call mind, that we call emotions, and has it has structure. It has ⁓ an an electromagnetic infor informational base at at bottom. And so I was just attending to, ⁓ what's the sensation in my right hip? And the sensation in my right hip was connected to some energy a foot and a half off my body to the right. And when I would tune into that and focus on it, what would happen is that the the intensity in the body would go up, the feedback, the correlation in the physical body would go up, but I would probe deeper into the psychological emotional aspects of what that was. So it might be a thought, might be a memory, might be an emotion. And as you kind of focus on it, what it does is it starts to ⁓ it starts to break apart that area. When when you when you bring intense focus, when you bring concentrated focus to something energetically, what it does is it starts to process that information immediately. It's like shining a flashlight on something. And anything put in the in the light, in clear light, what it does is it starts to process and it starts to become coherent. That that's a good way of putting it. Right? It's like there's like this laser beam of white light that is the source of us in a way. And that white light is pure and perfect. And so when when you have these kinds of traditional openings, if you will, in a certain sense what's happening is that that laser beam of white light can actually just kind of come right through your attention very clearly. And so you can just basically turn that flashlight and focus it on something and you don't have to qu technically do anything. But just by being concentrated and keeping the flashlight on something, what happens is the thing that's decoherent automatically starts to self-organize. It automatically starts to organize itself to a higher degree because you're just applying clear, present, coherent, focused attention on it. And so I was just doing this all day every day for years and all of my practices, like I said, were going from physically oriented practices to energetically oriented practices.

speaker-1: So you're saying that your subtle body is much bigger than your gross body and that there could be some th some tw some knot in your subtle body that's a foot and a half away from your gross body and you can put your attention there and you untangle the knot and it it resolves something. ⁓ is is that a it's probably a rather s crude ⁓ repetition of what you just said, but that that that's what I gathered.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. So like let's like this is this is really this is really key kind of information. So and this is what I spend all my time doing. This is what field dynamics is, is it's a practice of energy healing, which is basically how do I learn to start to focus and detect blockage in the flow of energy. That's like number one. It's just how do I start to perceive myself, not only physically, but energetically? And what is the language, what is the perceptual apparatus of sensing energy, right? And that is I place my attention somewhere and I notice the qualities of my attention. So just like I move my attention through my leg and I notice that the upper part of my leg feels comfortable and okay, I go through my knee and all of a sudden I feel pain in my knee, or I feel discomfort in my knee, or I even might not perceive my knee. Right? It's possible that I just I perceive my femur bone, but as I go into my knee joint, I go, I don't even perceive my knee joint. Like it's not, it's like almost like it's not there. Right. So when you start to Transfer this over into understanding how subtle energy works, what we're learning to do is we're learning to sense the quality, the texture, the opacity, the transparency of your field. And then you start to have this thing where you get the field body connection starts to come up. So let's say I have ⁓ a thing where when I'm growing up, my father is very disapproval, disappro ⁓ disapproves of me, right? And so I I build up this thing which I say, I'm not good enough. Right. Dad's always saying, You're not good enough. I I don't prove I don't approve of you. You know, you didn't succeed in class today. You're not doing what I say you should do. And I want dad's attention, I want dad's love, but what I'm experiencing is a constant sense of disapproval. And this this thought form is I'm not good enough. It's a belief that I start to take on. And that belief has a geometric structure in my field. My my brain correlates this just higher higher dimensional geometric ⁓ structure which encodes the belief, which is the structure of the belief. I'm not good enough. And I keep experiencing I'm not good enough over and over and over again in various ways. Directly, indirectly, maybe it's even ancestral. Maybe dad grew up thinking he wasn't good enough because his dad treated him that way. And when I was born, I already had a groove in my system and in my body memory and my field memory that had this I'm not good enough thought form in there. And just as you move your mind, you move your body, your body creates a habit pattern that creates a groove, right? Same thing with the mind. If you keep having the same thoughts over and over again. you're gonna start to create a groove, you're gonna start to create a crystallization of those thoughts. So I have this thought, I'm not good enough. And that thought form correlates to certain emotions, maybe sadness, maybe a a lack of confidence, maybe a deflation of a determination, maybe it saps my will, right? Maybe. And then those correlate to the different organs and tissues in the body. So for instance, the kidneys are connected to the will very often, or the liver is connected to sadness very often. So these thought forms in the field, which are beliefs, connect through emotional capacities, which then trickle down through the dimensions from mind to emotion to body, through informational pathways, electromagnetic pathways, and they wind up affecting how the information goes from mind to body ⁓ through different energetic stimulation. And it literally might dampen my kidney function, dampen my liver function, give me pain in certain joints that are connected to those things. And so I go to look at my right knee. Or my right shoulder, right? And I'm I'm tracking into it and feeling this pain. And I'm going, ⁓ okay, there's pain in my knee. And then it turns into its correlate in the field. And I go, ⁓ my God, that's a foot and a half to the right off of my body. And I start to focus my attention there. And as I focus my attention, the information starts to unravel. It starts to be metabolized. Like there's as though there's a toxin in my body that's being metabolized. There's a toxin in my field that's being metabolized because I'm focused on it. And as it metabolizes, I have to process, experience that again in some way. So I start to have the memory of I'm not good enough. I start to have the feeling of I'm not good enough. I start to have pain in my kidneys. I start to have discomfort and emotion in my liver until I maybe come back to a memory when I'm five years old and I go, boo, ⁓ man, there it is, gone, and pfft, it gets processed. And that thought form gets dissolved in my field to a large extent, or the really trapped energy at least gets diffused, and then I have more spaciousness, I have more openness, and I have more clarity of mind. Right. This is like a kind of short form description of the ideas that we're talking about here, which is by mind connection, emotion domain emotional domains, and in particular, how is ⁓ something that is quote unquote an energetic block, right? How is that then ⁓ structured over time based on life stimulation? And then how does it kind of break down a little bit when you get into healing it?

speaker-1: Okay, so this is all about you working on yourself, it sounded like. So when somebody comes into your office, if it's an office clinic or whatever you call it, do you see their whole subtle body as clearly as you just described, seeing your own? And do you see a a little knot here and a knot there or whatever, and you can actually put your attention on it and start to dissolve it, and as you do so they experience corresponding changes in their mind and physical body?

speaker-0: Okay, good question. It ca there's a zillion ways to t talk about this, right? So ⁓ number one, anybody can do energetic work. That's really important to say. And I again I don't want to make myself seem like ⁓ on a pedestal and special and like, ⁓ I can do all this cool energy work and stuff. It's fundamentally everybody can practice energy work, everybody can like access these things. It's just a matter of what language works for you and then what kind of depth can you go, but it's accessible by everyone, which is

speaker-1: It's like saying everybody can play the violin, but you gotta actually learn it and practice it and you know, then eventually you'll be able to play the violin, but some are still gonna be able to be better than others.

speaker-0: Yeah, of course there will be levels of facility, but the main thing is that there is no bar to entry. So if you're willing to show up and you're willing to practice, then yes, you'll start off on day one playing violin and you'll sound really bad, but you will start making sound with a violin and that's a guarantee. So it's really important 'cause I don't what happens a lot with energy work is that people, especially if I, you know, give these extraordinary stories of mine, right? They're gonna say like, ⁓ the only people who can do that are people who are seers of some sort or whatever and like that's or that's already separation oriented and I really, really want to be inclusive and to say, you know, anybody can do this if you're interested in this kind of work because this is the kind of these are the kind of people that I'm interacting with all the time is people who come to considering practicing things like energy work. And some people are are very insensitive, so to speak. There's something that's drawing them to doing this kind of work, but they say like I don't sense energy very well. And like doesn't that mean I can't do this? Don't you have to be a psychic or something, or don't you have to be extra sensitive? And the answer is absolutely not. Anybody can do this kind of stuff. And you kind of learn to develop your own inner maps and your own inner language based on feedback. And then you simply will take steps forward over time and it will change and you will become better and, you know, learn to play some ⁓ you know, some some beautiful music. So

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: Well, you're asking about what do I sense when when I'm connecting with somebody, right? ⁓ in particular, there was the sequence, and this is esoteric as though most of what we've talked about isn't or something, right? But what happened initially is that I was really, really pulled into this astral domain for a couple of years, and that's the level of the field that I needed to clear, okay? And the astral domain has a very particular quality and look to it. It's more of the traditional images and depictions of the aura that we're used to. And that is like where you see almost like aura photography where there's like blotches of color around people, you know, and like dark spots and things like that. ⁓ that's the astral domain. And for the first couple of years or so, three years or so, that's what I would see a lot of the time when working with people. And that was with eyes open, and that was on myself or with other people. And it just takes a little bit of tuning in, and all of a sudden there's this like ⁓ kind of locking into the vision state of it and I could see a lot of stuff. And yeah, there would be certain colors over here, certain colors over there, certain l a certain lack of flow in certain places. ⁓ also in this domain in the astral, there's also a lot of what we would call like beings and things like that. I don't know how else to call it, but there's a lot of things floating around. You know, just like if you were to take a microscope to ⁓ a cup of water and you'd see that there's just zillions of microorganisms The astral has just zillions of microorganisms. There's just stuff everywhere all the time. And I also had lots of encounters with weird stuff. You know, I I didn't know what I was doing. And I would be practicing all the time. And very regularly I'd have interactions with energetic beings, like things that came to me, so to speak, like would f kind of float over. You know, sometimes I would see them coming. Other times it would just be like a knock at the door and I would go like hello and there would just be this interaction and the and the the the communication was energetic. It was not language, although you can use language like like verbal language to express energy, so to speak, because the essence of what you're saying is energetic and nonverbal, right? But fundamentally what these beings or what that domain was about was about learning to communicate through feeling. And it was always about feeling. And so some beings have a very dark feeling. And some beings had a very light feeling. And there was this thing about not getting scared or fearful when dark things approached and being comfortable with receiving and sharing with light as well. And it was this kind of training ground of deep emotion, deep feeling. And this is what's something I experienced myself, but it's also what I was doing when working with other people. It was like I was mostly focused in this astral domain as a primary in terms of what my vision and perception was. Now, that changed over time. And what happened is after about two or three years, ⁓ particularly two years or so, when these the upper Granthi came off, and as my own system clarified as I really worked through a lot of this astral stuff, think of it again as these higher dimensions, right? The source of it is the higher dimensions, the highest that you can go all the way to that white light, right? So like your crown chakra is is higher, so to speak. It's a higher vantage point, it's a more inclusive place of orientation than your fifth chakra, the fifth dimension, or the fourth chakra, the heart, or the Second chakra, the the pelvis, like all these are lower and lower and smaller and smaller domains of information, not only in terms of information, but particularly and quixotically of identity. So like you as you go up the chakras and the dimensions, you're actually expanding identity, you're becoming more inclusive in your perspective of self, right? And so as this astral domain cleared, What happened is is I started to have a much more clear vision of the this this light body level in which everything was just sacred geometry and fields of fields of pure light. Like and I mean like really, really pure and clear bandwidths of light, and this is the classic seven colors of the rainbow and all that. And so that's more and more what came to the foreground of my perception, and the astral pretty much dissolved and disappeared from my perception going back for the most part the last six years or so, seven years. I I don't really perceive the astral. ⁓ presumably because I've kind of cleaned the mirror, so to speak, a little more. And it's like not where I'm resonating primarily. I don't know how else to put it, but like I if I practiced, I know that I could see it if I wanted to, but it's what not it doesn't naturally come to me anymore. What I what I see when I work with people is I immediately, without any effort whatsoever, I immediately have access to, 'cause it's always kind of transparent, ⁓ this geometric level of organization of their field. And it's the informational architecture. of the higher dimens d dimensions and if you're just simply present there, if you just settle into the present moment, right, what happens in the pr by being present is your field starts to spin coherently and clear perception a adds and accentuates that by basically shining a flashlight within that turbine. And what happens is is the information processes very, very fast. And so all I have to do in a certain sense is get out of the way, use my perception, notice where things are stuck. Notice where there's blockage and whatever that translates as, meaning maybe there's emotion, maybe there's memory, maybe there's just a sense of density, right? Whatever it is, whatever the sensing translates over for me is be present and allow it to change. And there's not a doing, it's a nondoing, it's it's an allowing. And it's like ⁓ you know, basically holding open or maintaining present moment awareness, which basically translates as the bottom of the bathtub, the the ⁓ the stopper gets pulled out and the water just comes out and it just naturally you don't have to technically do anything. You have to be able to get out of the way. But like you said about being able to play different music, your detecting ability helps. Like if you can be really keen on noticing where things are stuck, then you can basically turn over information much more quickly. ⁓ and yeah, people ha people experience it on their end in a number of different ways. Some people feel a lot, some people feel a little, some people have like rapid fire information processing taking place, some people will go to sleep, some people will go into dream states, some people will have a lot of emotions. It just just depends on the person and circumstance and every session and circumstance is different.

speaker-1: It sounds like when your upper granti cleared, ⁓ you shifted to being able to work at a subtler level and as with most things, the subtle is more fundamental and therefore more influential. You know, you have greater ⁓ leverage working at a subtler level. So I I would imagine that you were able to effect ch ⁓ transformation in people ⁓ at a deeper level.

speaker-0: I I think so. And you know what's an interesting parallel to that is that people actually feel less because it's so deep and it's so it's so ⁓ almost like belief like beliefs are the deepest thing. Okay. Fundamentally a belief is the deepest thing. And the deepest belief we hold is called I am. And that's a belief. That's like a it's a it's a it's a kind of a piece of clothing that we put on that we say, ⁓ yeah, I I am. Like I believe that, right? So as you go up the dimensions Each of those dimensions, so to speak, and the information bandwidths contain certain kinds of data. And as you get to the higher ones, when you have this traditional kundalini kind of snakes, right, what they do is they meet at the sixth crossing, the caduceus, right? The sixth crossing is I am consciousness called I am. So fundamentally, like opening your third eye up all the way is this releasing of the sense of I am. And that sixth dimension, right, is like an I am blank ad lib. I am blank. I am Keith. Although Keith is a lower dimensional representation of I am, pure I am is up here. But like I am not worthy. You know, I am capable. I am the best. I am the worst. Right. Those beliefs structure the rest of your field. They it you you create, you cast these beliefs out, and these beliefs at this very high level in your field, I am something. What they do is they mold and they create. potentials or limitations to what else can be created beneath them, so to speak. So the sixth dimension or the the the the third eye, so to speak, right, has this belief structure to it, and that's the ⁓ dimension where we can see in this kind of energy field ⁓ anatomy kind of way of thinking about things, that faces front to back. Right. So it faces horizontal horizontally, and that means it's in time and space. It's it's in in duration, if you will. But when you go from six to seven, right, you're switching from horizontal to vertical again, right? The root is vertical and the crown is vertical. And when you get to the crown, you get interpretations from the yoga tradition, for example, as like nothingness or emptiness or everythingness or stuff. And that's where we're going from anything in time, and we're now getting outside of time and space altogether, where there is no identity, the it is infinite, so to speak. The line is infinite, the circle is infinite, ⁓ the self doesn't exist, if you will, beyond that. And ⁓ you know, when people are having circulation of beliefs within their system, that is a very subtle thing. And so yes, very often when I'm working with people, I noticed that at the astral domain for years, it was like these explosive massive things that would happen with people because it was so intense emotionally. Right. But as you keep going deeper to subtler levels, the experience itself does become more subtle, meaning it's more refined and it's harder to detect for most people. But it's also deeper. It's it's more fundamental the level that you're working at, which is in this case, like I'm saying, it's basically working at like the level of the beliefs that hold all the rest of it in place in a sense. And again, I'm not like changing a person's beliefs, so to speak. I'm just helping for things that are stuck to start to have room to move because ⁓ of offering, let's say. a root of coherency versus the decoherence of certain kinds of negative ways of thinking.

speaker-1: Hm. Two questions. One is you're in Bali. Do you do this remotely or do people have to go to Bali? And the second question, which you can answer in the same response, is if someone were to watch you doing this, are you just kinda standing there or are you doing things with your hands and moving around like that?

speaker-0: Yeah. Good okay, good questions. Number one, everything that we've done for the last ⁓ six years now, field dynamics has been online. ⁓ we actually in this amazingly circuitous way started in Bali and opened up a first training for twenty twenty and then you know what happened. So we actually left we left Bali and we left our in person model and we decided to transfer everything over to online and that was never the original intention for field dynamics and what we did is we put forward ⁓ put together a training to be kind of comparable to the quality of professionalism and comprehensiveness that we saw other really, really high-level trainings out there. So we saw, you know, things like people getting master's degrees in school, or we saw people getting, you know, craniosacral biodynamics trainings for two years, or joining things for 12 months or 18 months and really studying something for a while. And what we found was energy healing didn't have that representation in the world, that it was mostly like Very short form, a couple of days, a weekend, you could, you know, maybe be a master or something very quickly, these odd titles of doing something for two days, right? Play violin two days and be a master kind of thing. ⁓ but we said, what is the kind of training, what's the kind of experience, what's the kind of container that allows people to learn something that re that is of great depth, but also to do self-transformation at the same time, which requires time. Like there's you know, the healing that people need to go through. in order to really be of greater service to others in terms of being a facilitator of any sort, takes a while. It's gonna be six months, it's gonna be a year, it's gonna be three years, it's gonna be three decades. It's going to take a while for you to learn to be present with yourself and to kind of work through your stuff. And nobody ever gets to a hundred percent, but we're all in different places within our own journey. And there's a big difference between twenty percent, fifty percent, and eighty percent, you know, of a if a person experiences inner peace and they experience inner peace 10% of their day versus 50% of their day versus 90% of their day, that is a a ⁓ a hugely different experience of life. And so if we want to develop and cultivate that inner peace, that ability to to be kind of in a loving present state more and more of the time, we need to do inner work and then we become more capable human beings, I believe. I think that this is our our calling. I think that this is like the idea of the soul and everything is to to really mature internally. more so than externally. I think internal maturation is the special sauce of life and that everything externally will follow, but your fundamental is the space in which you live and that is within yourself. And if that is a cobweb of decoherency and messiness, then whatever you're trying to create and express externally is going to often get quite distorted and gonna have a a real problem expressing it clearly, let alone the fact that Generally speaking, if we're not clear within ourselves, how do we actually know what we want? Like how do we actually align ourselves to what is truly real for us, you know? So the inner journey to me is fundamental in order to be, you know, better and better contributors in the world and also to find peace and true contentment in the world as well. So this kind of inner work takes a little while. And so we came up with a training that is long and the online version initially was six months, it's four months now. And ⁓ so we do an online version of this and we will continue to do that. It's called the EHT program, the Energy Healers Training Program, and it's four months long, and then there's a ⁓ a 200 hour we call it, and that's another six months. So many people spend about a year and a half on average doing the full program, and that's about right to me. That feels about right. Like ⁓ you know, about eighteen months, twelve to twenty-four months is a good range to commit to learning something and you'll learn quite a bit and experience quite a bit. So that exists, that continues to exist despite us being in Bali. ⁓ and we're in Bali now, six years later, and we haven't made many public announcements, but I'll I'll I'll share with you. Basically we're just at the end of ⁓ setting up a center here. And so we're going to now start to do in person work for the first time regularly in six years. And that in person work will not be the same as the online work that we offer, which is like kind of classical energy healing training, but instead The in-person work is going to bring other skill sets forward that are energetically oriented but have more to do with things in person. So for instance, like we'll be doing work with crystals more, you know, which is something that Christabel and I, the other founder of Field Dynamics, have a passion for is ⁓ crystal healing is Christopel is my wife and also the the co-founder of Field Dynamics. Yeah. And so ⁓ the kind of energy work we do, the training we do online, it's kind of

speaker-1: The Bill's your wife, right?

speaker-0: classical energy work. It's like ⁓ it it requires nothing physical. But crystals are arguably the best thing you can use physically to do make changes to your aura. They're incredibly powerful and just like energy healing, classical energy healing has very poor representation and is very poorly understood in general in the masses in my opinion. Crystal healing is also extremely poorly understood and poorly represented in the in the public domain. So we're trying to put forward that's one thing we're going to be doing here is like a structured crystal ⁓ training, for example, like really learning to utilize crystals in the way that they they can be used to do changes to your aura. ⁓ and we're going to be doing a lot of other things, like for example, like what is it like to work energetically with people hands-on? So, you know, there's just hands-on healing, palpation skills, where you're you're utilizing in-person touch, but the orientation is the energy field, not the physical body. So the physical body becomes the the linkage point, but it's like body work for energy healers, if you will. You know, kind of like that. So we're gonna also have things like that. And in general the theme here is ⁓ going to be things that are f are in person and physical, but work energetically, if that makes sense.

speaker-1: Yeah. So it sounds like mostly you're training people as opposed to treating them individually, but correct me if I'm wrong. And ⁓ well, must as well answer that one before I ask you another thing.

speaker-0: ⁓ so Christabel and I both split our time between trainings, which are ⁓ weekend intensive formats. We ha you know, like the EHT I told you about, that's ⁓ six modules. So it's like every f every few weekends is an intensive module and we go through different things like you know, starting off with foundations and ⁓ getting then getting into like multidimensional anatomy and chakras, and then we get into things like ⁓ the central channel and kind of like the beginnings of kundalini development and Things like relational fields, working with ancestral fields and relational fields and mom and dad and your fields. You know, this is one of the very interesting things I think that we do, which is you can actually use energy healing as a practice that not only can be about the typical things we think about, like, ⁓ is my chakra blocked, if you will? You know, like is my s is my solar plexus chakra blocked? And I use chakras only because they're by far the most well known and the kind of the centerpiece of an energy healer's repertoire and understanding of anatomy. But Also because people understand it, the language is very available to people. But the thing is that's structure. So, you know, your solar plexus is a structure, but the solar plexus contains content. So you can work at the content level explicitly in energy work, meaning, well, my solar plexus chakra might, you know, have certain stuff stuck, but what's stuck? Well, it's about my control issues in relationship to my mom, right? So if I know that I have a control issue in relationship to my mom, I can focus on the relational field with my mother. I can focus on the control issue and I can target the control issue. I can target the emotional issues with my mom as a relational field practice rather than thinking of it as a solar plexus practice. And one will get to the other in due time, but we can think of it, target and access this information in either direction.

speaker-1: Okay. ⁓ so can you see people's auras online or do you have to see it be in person with them? Can you see my aura right now?

speaker-0: So okay, ready? So the astral is something that is partially visible if one tunes into it. That's partially visible. And the reason is because it's at the interface of physical. So the the astral is adjacent to the physical, right? Again, this dimensional model. One, two, and three physical, astral four adjacent. And then five, six and seven is something else. And I said it's more like time and it's more like mind and more like thoughts and things like that. That is an inversion of a domain and so it's really non-physical anymore. And in general, the way I see the the aura through this kind of more geometric domain, that's not something that these eyes see. It's something that the inner eye sees. Right. And so at any moment, if I were to drop in, if we were to sit for like thirty seconds, I could, you know, read your system and start to tell you what I'm sensing. But I you I'd I'd rather not Okay. ⁓

speaker-1: Say yeah, do that, but I I respect your desire not to.

speaker-0: We could ⁓ this is the thing. The orientation we have is we, ⁓ Christopher and I do not take the orientation of traditional psychics. Meaning a traditional psychic tends to say, Hey, you've come to me and I'm gonna tell you about you. Mm-hmm. That's not the orientation we take. We take the orientation of ⁓ I'll be a spaceholder and I'm going to help you see you. And when you see you more clearly, you are empowered, you have insight and you have self discovery. in the places where you're able or ready or it are relevant for you to see. So if somebody else can just come and go like, ⁓ yeah, this, this, and this, and you go, What? I I I don't see that. I don't feel that. I don't know what you're talking about. We're getting into this disempowerment model where somebody else is the authority and they're telling you stuff that you can't verify or confirm for yourself. We don't we don't think that that's a good ground or a basis for people to really not only feel empowered, but a valid basis for people to trust what's happening. So we like to empower people to see themselves more clearly. So what I would do with you is we would sit and I we would kind of tune in and I would ask you certain questions and you would notice certain things and I might say, ⁓ okay, yeah, what if we focus here? And you go, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ that area. ⁓ that feels kind of strange to me right now. I go, okay, tell me more. You know, and I'm focusing with you and I'm noticing things maybe you can or cannot. perceive, but I'm helping your attention to connect to what's ready, if that makes sense.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm. All right, maybe we'll do that sometime. So do you do this stuff ⁓ I mean these courses and everything, y you're in Bali, you must have a heck of a problem with time zones, or d or is it somehow recorded and and it doesn't have to be live.

speaker-0: Everything we do is live. We only do live stuff. Nothing is ever pre recorded. and so ⁓ we have remedied the time zone thing here by being up at the appropriate time.

speaker-1: Okay. And ⁓ w roughly how much does these courses cost, if I may ask?

speaker-0: ⁓ the EHT one hundred is under two thousand for ⁓ four months of training, six weekends, ⁓ partner trades with your classmates and a session with Christabel or I. ⁓ and ⁓ that's where we start. Okay. It's they're they're commend they're commensurate with professional trainings of similar ⁓ ilk and scope in various domains. Yeah.

speaker-1: Sounds like it's get quite a lot of hours of instruction for for your money. ⁓

speaker-0: The general consensus on, you know, this is from testimonials and things like that is that on the one hand, ⁓ it's very transformational. ⁓ people tend to have it be a significant life experience to do our trainings and we keep the groups very small on purpose so that every person is seen and heard. It's generally about twelve people in a training with Christabel and I. So the student to teacher ratio, so to speak, is very, very ⁓ ideal for everyone being heard and everyone having an intimate rapport and that group field, that group community experience is very important to us and a big component of it. ⁓ but also ⁓ the the information itself, like the practices themselves, are extremely diverse ⁓ and ⁓ broad. So when people come out of those four months it's like, ⁓ I have a lifetime of practice I can do with this. So depending on where they go with it, whether they you know, ⁓ it's important to say as well that Fundamentally, the trainings we do are self growth oriented, you know. It it it they are professional and they are very comprehensive for people in integrative healthcare and or, you know, different kinds of modalities or people who have no background in any kind of healing work whatsoever. They can take it on and integrate it and or use it as a professional outward facing offering to the world. But fundamentally, and we're always clear with people about this, that it is a ⁓ an inner cultivation, an inner journey first and foremost. And that that's the space we're trying to help people cultivate. So it has that kind of dual purpose, but ⁓ fundamentally ⁓ self self development, self growth.

speaker-1: Okay, great. ⁓ so we have about fifteen minutes left. So what would you like to cover in our remaining time ⁓ that we haven't covered yet and that you feel is important?

speaker-0: Okay. I have the so this is this is important, I think. I put forward this word in my book called Cosmometics. Cosmometics is a term that I came up with that ⁓ is ⁓ mirroring the idea of biomimetics. And ⁓ many people listening will know this term biomimetic technology. Like you know, for example, like a a radar is basically the same as what bats use. You know, our technology of radar is basically what bats use. Or, you know, you can study how a gecko is able to walk on a ceiling and what it is is there's little tiny hair follicles that create these electromagnetic friction points, what have you, and that they're technically like floating on electromagnetic suction. And th they're they're hanging upside down. So we can make, you know, technology based on biology, right? Biomemetics. I came up with a term called cosmometics and cosmometics is from the term cosmos or like universe from Greek. And it basically is the idea that what I think we're stepping into is we're stepping into a cosmometic technological domain, meaning the internet, AI, and future technology is about whether we realize it or not right now, is actually about mimicking how the cosmos itself is structured. And fundamentally what this is about is connectivity. So what energy healing does immediately when you practice it is you realize that information is distributed everywhere. All information is distributed everywhere. It's a holographic principle, but it's also with if you test this by practicing energy work, it immediately validates or expl expresses this. This is also why some traditions call it the Akashic Records, right? Akashic records simply translates as the records in space, the information in space. What we are in is a reality which has this geometric structure where all the levels fold into one another as you go higher and higher until there's a single point of origin. And what that means in this profound and completely otherworldly, beyond human this kind of way, is that everything is interconnected simultaneously at every single point. And that is ridiculously complex to think of if you try and engineer it in your mind. But if we just start to think very differently about reality, and this is the beginnings of These very important insights in science that are happening, like the amplitron, you know? Like ⁓ somebody like I think his name is Daniel or sorry, Douglas Hoffman, right? He's a scientist who's going around a lot lately and what he's talking about is Donald Hoffman, thank ⁓ great. So he's saying like the big thing happening in physics is that everything is outside of time and space. It's like atemporal inquiry is now the thing that's been happening for ten years. Right? We don't have it in textbooks. It's not mainstream.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: It's not something that the common person thinks about because it's not part of the paradigm that we're living in. But science itself is ten, fifteen years into this foray into saying, holy moly, everything is interconnected in a way that is bafflingly more complex than we could possibly imagine. Now, this is exactly what all the ancients have been talking about forever. Indra's net of jewels is a yogic mythology that expresses this, where Indra looks at one jewel and there's a net of jewels cast Throughout the entire universe, and he looks at one jewel, and in the one jewel is reflected infinitely all of the other jewels. This is reality. This is holographic reality. And energy healing is something that makes use of that, where you can learn through intention and attention and working with levels of consciousness to engineer and create changes in your aura just by learning to access certain kinds of information. It's like the cosmic Google, if you will, because guess what? All information is distributed equally everywhere. And this has profound implications for us as human beings as we start to understand how we're connected, meaning you and I are connected at levels that are non physical right now, that are energetically based, in which we're exchanging information and energy non physically. And that's kind of like obvious, but it also isn't obvious because we don't think that way usually. But interestingly, I was watching some kind of a sports event the other day and this sports commentator watching a you know a basketball game, thirty thousand people are are watching the game and the commentator says, You can feel the anxiety in the room right now. And I'm going, you realize that if that's true, that means that there's non physical exchange happening all the time. And we say this commonly and casually in public discourse, and yet our scientific models say that that's not not real, not true. Right? So what's dawning on us in terms of the internet and AI and all of the technology that we consider the future of technology in my opinion is cosmometic technology, is technology that mimics how the universe is already structured. And how the universe is structured is that all information is distributed everywhere already, and it's all about making hyperconnectivity a reality. So that when you think something, when you're interested in something, when your attention wants to go somewhere and understand or sift through possibilities, you have access to it because it's all available. That's already how the universe is structured. Your mind does that. Your mind is in the cosmic Google automatically, consciously or unconsciously, all the time. Every moment, everything you think, every thought, every strain of subconscious, shadowy mental process is pulling and tugging on different websites in the cosmic web, if you will. Energy healing is a way to make this conscious and to use that knowledge to do healing work and to do change work that's really profound, but also very poorly understood. But I think that it expresses itself at this very dense domain called the internet and AI and all these things. They're moving towards this very same thing, in my opinion. Because naturally, once you look to upgrade how you're working technologically, you're gonna keep moving towards greater levels of information exchange because there's just too many advantages to it. That's basically what typifies what we're experiencing right now. Like I'm saying, I think that it's just modeling what the universe already is.

speaker-1: Beautiful. This would be how karma works. You know, p if people think how could karma work? It's too complicated. In fact it says in the Gita ⁓ the th that karma is unfathomable to human intellect because it's just so complex that every little thing you do is is somehow recorded and and there's ⁓ f some kind of feedback eventually from it. I don't know, that's what came to mind as you were describing that. But another thing which comes to mind is just the no notion of omnipresent, omniscient intelligence that would have to be kind of the characteristic of this fundamental field for all the laws of nature to be as orderly as they are and and the ⁓ all the cosmological constants to be as precise as they are to have given us a universe. We're swimming in a sea of intelligence. Would you resonate with that notion?

speaker-0: There is a knowing that you could call it intelligence. There is a knowing at the foundation of the very fabric of existence and penetrating into that knowing is a mystery. I like to try and do comparative not theology, but kind of comparative spiritual traditions and you can push perception to a certain degree. And that perception is the inner laboratories furthest extent of confirmation of any sort. So When you go the deepest that perception can go, and this is something that I feel I've investigated and can kind of account for quite clearly, but also it it dovetails with all these different traditions and all these different practitioners. And it is that when you go deepest into the present moment, there are two different dead ends, if you will, that present themselves. One is that everything is full. Everything is complete and total and whole, and if we used a language to describe it, it would be called white light. It is full. It it is, it manifests. It's like it exists and it is, the word is works. And white light is a good characteristic in the sense that it is something rather than nothing, but it is also whole and total. Conversely, there's this other quality that exists in that it's it it's it's negation, and that is that it isn't, and you could call it nothingness or emptiness or silence. And you can push the envelope of perception and see that both of these things are in some kind of relationship with one another. Wholeness and emptiness, fullness and negation, you know? And you can't penetrate past that. Like there's no beyond that in the sense of what a human can know or perceive because it's just mysterious. It's impenetrable mysteriousness because they're whole. They're total. There's there's not more, so to speak. But at that depth, there is intelligence. There is like a a knowingness to that field, if you will. There is a A bottomless intelligence and you know, to be humble and graceful in in that kind of mm relationship.

speaker-1: Yeah. They actually have words for that in Sanskrit Purnavada and Shunavada for the fullness and the emptiness. Kind of like two sides of the same coin in a way. What would you like to leave people with in terms of how they can interact with you? You have a website, which I'll link to on your page on batgap dot com. Do you have a YouTube channel?

speaker-0: We do have a YouTube channel that we post our podcast on. We do have a podcast. It's called The Future of Wellness. It's available on all major platforms and it's ⁓ it's ⁓ an audio based in the sense that we don't use video for the podcast at the moment, although who knows if that changes. And we do a lot of interviews with people and also do solo episodes as well.

speaker-1: And then there's your courses that you described and so people can find out about those on your website.

speaker-0: Yeah. People are who are especially who are going to listen to your podcast, which I'm very appreciative to be on here because years ago when we first started Field Dynamics, I said, ⁓ there are ways of connecting with other people in the world and podcasts are a big thing and I looked out and I went, ⁓ the Boudic Gas Pump is really cool. I'd love to get on there someday and then you know, and then ⁓ you guys reached out to me recently and I I had reached out to you guys years ago, but as at the very, very beginning of field dynamics even existing. People who are listening to this are in their own way seekers, are are looking for something and certainly in some way on the path of inner work and development. And I think that that strain, we talked about that polarity of dark and light. I think that that pull to do inner cultivation is so precious and so important that I just am so compelled by people having that inspiration within them. So follow that. Whatever that's leading you, follow that. It's so incredibly important. Be the difference that you want to see in the world internally. Be that difference internally. And then you can express it externally. And the more you can do that, the more I think that this world will continue to change in the in a in a clear and conscious manner. Our trainings are available through our website. We have one coming up in October, the next DHT. And we also have ⁓ workshops coming up in the fall. Also you can work with me or Christabel in one on one sessions online. And if people are interested in this kind of work, if you're interested in energy healing as a technology for change, then the EHT and field dynamics is something to definitely check out because I think we're doing something quite different in ⁓ in a twenty first century, very grounded and clear model.

speaker-1: Great. Well thanks, Keith. I really enjoyed this. As I said in the beginning, I really enjoyed your book and I would highly recommend it. I'm not just saying that, I don't say that all the time. But it it was it was very interesting following your story and ⁓ and talking to you today has been really ⁓ stimulating and I I am gonna start listening to your podcast 'cause I want to hear more of what you have to say.

speaker-0: Thanks, Rick. And it's been a real pleasure connecting with you and I very much appreciate this opportunity and hope to continue to ⁓ to stay connected in various ways.

speaker-1: Yeah, let's do. So th thank you to those who've been listening or watching and we'll see ya for the next one.