speaker-0: Hello and welcome to the Nomess No Magic Podcast with Monica Hay, a podcast for writers. Today we have my dear colleague Beth Barani Barani.

speaker-1: Barani.

speaker-0: I'm always messing up people's last names, I feel like. It's always last names that I'm like, I can't. My memory is really terrible with like certain verbiage. We have Beth Barani joining us. I'm very, very excited. Welcome, Beth.

speaker-1: Thank you, Monica, for having me. This is so fun.

speaker-0: Yes. So Beth is an award-winning science fiction and fantasy novelist, runs a successful business as a coach and consultant for authors, and has taught hundreds of students through her online school and in person for organizations and conferences. She hosts the podcast, How to Write the Future, sharing tips and tools for fiction writers and forward thinking organizations. She uses her creativity to serve others and bring joy into her life and into the lives of others and collaborates one on one with writers as well as in groups. And we are going to talk about well we we had kind of two topics in mind and the topic we kind of settled on is for me selfishly because talk about this with my clients and they roll their eyes and I mentioned this to Beth before I start recording. we're gonna talk about why it's never too late to pursue a creative dream. And we'll also probably talk about how to be creative in the midst of a chaotic life, because I think that's just part of life. But Every time I talk to my clients who might be, you know, people who are older than me and like I'm 35. And so people see me and they're like, you're just like, you know, when I say you can do it like when you're lit that when you're old, they're like, Hmm, okay, Monica. So I wanted to talk to somebody who actually can bring wisdom to this top this conversation, especially because you did some cool filmmaking recently. Is that correct?

speaker-1: Right, that's right. And for reference, I'm gonna be 58 in a few weeks. And I started my filmmaking, like actually doing the film like four years ago. So what was that? When I was 54. That's when we were actually starting and doing, and we're still doing. We're still in the middle of the first little tiny proof of concept film. and I encounter a lot of women my age and older working on film, which is so wonderful. I have been searching them out. I've been actively working them out and finding women who are like, well, I'm 70 and I'm working on my first documentary. You know, well, I'm gonna be 65 pretty soon and I'm I'm doing the hustle and I'm loving it and I'm going until I can go no longer, you know, and and they're doing their thing and they're they have so much. Some of them are starting out like me, some have been in the industry on and off for years, some have been in it for a very long time and still do things. It's amazing. I I can tell you stories.

speaker-0: I love it

speaker-1: But everything women have met in film, yeah.

speaker-0: I love it. I wish there were lists. I don't want 30 under 30. I ever again. I want to see lists of like, you know, 50 over 50 or like people who are doing amazing things later in life. That's what I want to see. You know? I find that stuff inspiring because I think so much I don't know. I guess our our c our culture is very obsessed with youth. And I think it causes a lot of pain because people freak out that it's too late. Like People like, Well, I can't do this because I'm not twenty five anymore.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean ageism is a not I mean we receive it on the outside, but then we incorporate it internally. And I too have been asking myself, am I too old? But not from a I guess I have a bit of a what is that called? A rebellious streak. I'm not really there is so much to learn. So that's it's like, my god, how do I learn all these things? Well, actually filmmaking turned on for me this deep desire and love to be team team building. So I don't have to know everything. I just know I just need to know the most important things about running a team. Yeah. Which is fostering everyone's amazing skill set, having the vision. Well, I already had the vision, you know, and then team building is something that I didn't realize I was competent at, but I been craving for a long time. And then I was starting to do things with teenagers in film and helping out at a film camp. For girls and non-binary kids. And I got a compliment, like, Beth, you're really good at making sure everyone is included. And my first response was, Of course. Of course, everyone needs to be included. But I didn't realize that I had a very, I was very gentle. I wasn't bullying the kids. I was just like, hey, you over there in the corner, come let's hear your opinion on what on what we're gonna do here next. Or reminding the group, hey, you know, this person over here who likes to work solo but also wants to contribute, let's inc include them. Yeah. Because I know and maybe it comes from all the classroom teaching I've done of young adults. I taught English to non native speakers, English as a foreign language. So and also just myself. I know what it's like to be on the outside. Yep. And I I know what it's like for people to not invite me into the circle because my natural i my natural inclination is always to be over there in the corner reading a book as a kid.

speaker-0: Yeah. Wait, your birthday's in a few weeks. When is your birthday?

speaker-1: Yeah. The seventeenth.

speaker-0: Seventeenth of June. Nice. I love it. mine's a few days after that, June twenty fifth.

speaker-1: Cancer. Yeah, I have some n nephews and around then lots of cancer nephews. Nine nephews.

speaker-0: Little emotional babies, I imagine.

speaker-1: There was

speaker-0: okay, I I'm very curious. So you've been a novelist, an entrepreneur, teacher, podcaster. What made you decide to do filmmaking when you decided to do it?

speaker-1: long journey, guys, long journey. I actually wanted to s get into film almost right when I started my business. and I started dabbling and meeting people and trying different ideas. And my goodness, I wanted to do my Henrietta the Dragon Slayer then. And this filmmaker I met was like, No, no, you can't. It's too expensive. Choose something else as your first film. So I tried to do a documentary around Brandy Chastain, who's a soccer American soccer player who was famous for taking off her shirt when they won the World Cup and showing off her awesomeness, you know, in her sports bra. And then I found out, I met her and I found out that HBO was working on a biopic. And but I used my network to to get to her. That was really cool. That was really cool. yeah. And so I also realized I had to put it aside at that point because I was new to my business and I needed to focus. And I realized, you know, I could either be a filmmaker or I could be a novelist and writing teacher. Could not do both. especially on the on the professional side. So I tabled it, but I I did not, but I really I actually declared out loud at a conference, I want to make a film, Henrietta the Dragon Slayer. And so that's like 2007. And you know, and then about 10, 12 years ago, I heard an opportunity to volunteer in a film camp for teens for girls in non binary. And I'm like, this is perfect. I can go volunteer. with my story knowledge, I'm sure they're gonna need a story person. I don't know a damn thing about film. And but I know that I can learn alongside them. And so that's what I did. And I'm still involved with that organization. And so I got to volunteer in the room and I got to do what I was unconsciously confident about, which is help the teams that was the adults' job was just to help them stay on track. Yeah. 'Cause they made a movie in five days. So and then I could ask I knew how to ask good questions to help develop story. It's all on them like Adults are not telling them what stories to do. Yeah. You know, so I could ask a question. So who's your main character? What do they want? You're like pulling. Yeah.

speaker-0: the the gold out of them. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-1: But they're doing all the work. And and that was great because then I got to learn alongside them what's a wide shot, what's this, what's a that, you know, lighting, sound, storyboarding, talking about story the way film industry talks about story, which is different than the fiction. industry does. So I just got to I did that for a few years and I would come in and then after a few years I would just drop in and be the story consultant and and and I was talking to the coordinators a few years ago and I'm like, hey, I have this idea. because I've been working on spri scripts as well. Like I would take the summer and go hi one time I hired a script writing coach. Another time I just, you know, I have critique partners. They can read my scripts because they write scripts occasionally too. So I was working on stuff in the background. And then As you can see, there's little pieces of things happening. I would go for the summer week thing and I would talk to the coordinators who are in their 20s and say, I'm thinking about someone, some random guy that I would meet at my local cafe told me to make my film. So how do I find my location? And then we had a few conversations that didn't go anywhere. And then the next summer, I again asked the coordinators and I'm like, so I want to pick your brain about making my little short. I have a a five-page teaser for my TV show. And she's like, let's do it. She said to me, let's do it. And I'm like, what? She's like, Yeah, I w I've never made a little fantasy story. I want to do it. And then she was amazing. And then I went and I said, Okay, let's that's great. Now what? Now what do I do? And well, actually, I knew I went and talked to the other two coordinators in the room and I asked them if they were interested. I was like, Hey, Yasiman is saying yes to this. Are you interested in joining? What's your skill set? What do you love to do? And then it turns out she won. wants to be a director. Then I asked the other one person, what do you love to do? And it turns out they love costuming. And I'm like, wow, you have a diverse. And the first person who said yes is a pr a production designer. They designed and which is amazing. Sh they did an amazing job with my set. so right there I had three people who were saying to explore and one of them, Morgan, she's still we meet regularly. She's my co-producer now. She's the one who holds the line for me. She went to film school. She's got that know-how. She's, you know, in her twenties, but she's, you know, very solid. But there's no but she's got a lot of youthful enthusiasm and know-how from her college education. And I just have vision and a whole bunch of other things. Yeah, yeah. So it and then from there I said, What do we need next? And they're like, we need it, we need someone to be the director of photography, you know, the DP. I'm like, who do you know? And they all looked at each other like, well, not me, not me, not me. I'm like, well, who else do you know? Not you all here. Who else? And then, there's a student who just finished the the young adult training program. And, you know, who was 18 when we when they worked for us, but eighteen when I was talking to them. so we just got our whole crew through connection. Yeah. the sound person and you we need a production assistant. what about this person? What about that person? I was trying to get a stunt coordinator and in the end that first person didn't work out because their specialty didn't include the the stunts I had in mind. Yeah. And it turns out one of our actors ha is a stunt performer and he ended up being our stunt coordinator. Yeah.

speaker-0: So you you said you were interested in two thousand seven or that was what you had wanted in two thousand seven and you chose to shelve it for a while. How

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: what was that decision like at that time? Did it feel really aligned or was it painful?

speaker-1: It was like I had done as much as I could on my own. I tried to recruit people to join with me. including my sister who's very creative and had already written a script when she was like twenty years old. but I didn't get a lot of yeses. And so that was kind of a signal to me, like, okay, I can keep trying to do this on my own, but I know I really can't, 'cause filmmaking you can't I mean you can do you by yourself with today's tech. But why? Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah. And

speaker-1: You want

speaker-0: the team aspect it sounds like that was that you craved.

speaker-1: I crave the team aspect very much. And I remember distinctly, because I had a nice little folder with all my notes and everything. I was like, well, I'm literally gonna shelve this because it's having an open project that isn't moving forward, even though you wish it were moving forward. I I mean, I by then, yeah, I was like on by the time I opened my business, I was on my third novel or something. So I kind of I knew, plus I have other writing experience, journalism stuff. When a project's not moving forward, then it's time to shelve it. There's it's not saying no forever. It's just no for right now. Right now. Because I'd already experienced when a project is really alive and wants to move forward, it kind of just shows up very easily. So I already knew this particular project. It wasn't sh easy. And I have an obstinate obstinate what is optimism. Like I wanna I I w if I want something, I know I'm gonna have it. I just don't know when.

speaker-0: Fair. I l I think artists kinda need that attitude a lot of the times in our world. Yeah.

speaker-1: And especially when there's no evidence of it happening. Like even now, I'm like, I want to make a TV show. And I'm like, Beth, you want to make a TV show? Like, well, I've gotten this far. Look at all the other crazy things I've done. Yeah. You know, I mean

speaker-0: Why not?

speaker-1: I feel like I'm three to six steps removed from the people I need to know to make it happen. It's a matter of know-how, but it's actually it's a matter of finding the right people who want to be with you. Yeah. Really is what it's about for me.

speaker-0: And so you started kinda getting more serious you said about ten year ten, twelve years ago is when you started making the thing the the the forward movement to make it happen.

speaker-1: Well, it was really because of this woman who had the film camp for teens. I saw that was happening. It was local here in Oakland, California. I could go and meet her, which was important. I went to an event that a f someone else was speaking, but her organization was, I think, like marketing it or something, or or it was a fundraiser for her event and I went and gave them twenty five bucks and went and met her and won a T shirt and you know, just showed up. Yeah. I knew I might I knew I needed to meet her in person and that would get my dream moving. Like if she knew and I knew her, then she could vet me and she could say, yes, you can come and work at the film camp. And I knew that's how you make things happen. Yeah. Yeah. They stuff. Yeah. It was dependent on somebody else. Right. You

speaker-0: It was

speaker-1: know, like I needed to wait for the environment around me to be easier to access the resources and people I needed. That's okay. I mean, it's just like when we go to writers' conferences, right? We go to meet people and be in the or their orbit and then have serendipitous meetings and you know, put ourselves in front of an agent and like do the things. But we we didn't create that conference, someone else did it. We just put ourselves in the path of all that amazing knowledge and people. So Yeah. Yeah. How

speaker-0: What did it feel to be a beginner again in this type of

speaker-1: My God. partly hard, especially script writing. my goodness, script writing. You're like, wait, what? No interiority? What does that actually mean?

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah.

speaker-1: What how do you translate that? And it took me years to figure it out. And you know, willingness to just write scripts and show them to people and have people go, nope, no, no, not like this, like this, rewrite my sentences, just like with fiction. I had to have people rewrite my sentences to show me, like, I didn't know you could do that. and Yeah, it was there are some things that have been really challenging to go, my God, I have to learn I have I don't know. And then to be humble enough to ask for help and put myself in front of people who know. Like I had to jump over that hurdle. and the harder thing though is that this feels so personal, this project. And so I wonder if sometimes I'm the bottleneck because I'm like, I'm gonna show people this thing. That I really want to be amazing, but right now it's not amazing. Yeah. It's really crappy. And will it ever be good? And you know.

speaker-0: All those those typical artist thoughts and I feel like writers have all all those thoughts all the time about their books and

speaker-1: yeah. Yeah. Filmmakers too. And this is my IP too. So it's like on top of it's like, this trilogy I wrote. And okay, now a new story. And like and my actors look different than maybe what your care your readers imagine them to look. Yeah. especially I had an open casting, so my my care main character, I love her, Henrietta the Dragon Slayer. She's Filipino American and she just brings it, just But I'm like, that's not what she looks like on the cover of the book. Well. Maybe at some point we recover the books, you know, who knows? But I'm so I don't know. So all the little doubts, right? Yeah. How will it be received?

speaker-0: Yes. Well, did you have those doubts, you know, when you were writing fiction and you were putting out your books? Yeah.

speaker-1: yeah. Especially this book. This was my first novel, Henrietta the Dragon Slayer. It was very tender, very difficult to figure out how to mark it in a way how to mark it at all. Yeah. Period. Because it felt so tender. It's like she's my heart walking around in the world, you know, separate from my body. Yeah. In some way. I feel that.

speaker-0: Yeah. I am curious, what would you say to somebody who thinks they're too old to start pursuing a different creative dream?

speaker-1: yeah, that's great. And I I'm I wanna tell you, I have worked with a lot of older writers. I've had clients in their seventies and eighties. Like I I noticed that when you want if you want to start a creative career, a creative project later in life, you have so much to bring that we don't have when we're younger. Yep. So much life experience, so much wisdom, and probably already a network of people who who already know and and love you and support you and are interested. If you tell someone that you're d writing a novel or making a movie and and your your career's been way over here in some other field. People are nine times out of ten gonna go, wow, that's amazing. my God. You know, and then if you keep telling them about your project and they're they're just gonna be blown away. So it's the beginner's mind is a good skill to practice as we age. Being humble, being open, open to feedback, and taking it step by step. Probably people later in life some degree have more patience. although as a menopausal woman, I'm like, my patience is very thin, but but I also know how to manage my own tantrums way better than you know I used to. so usually by the time people get to me with writing fiction, they're already pretty committed. But if you're on the fence, I would say get with get with the young people. Learn when learn with those learners, you know. Other you know, get get into the spirit of like be with kids actually. Kids is the best thing. Whenever I want to learn something new, I open a children's book. You know, like be with little kids who are super wide open and be in a l that they will have that will help you remind you what it's like to be open and and a sponge and just asking all the questions and yeah. And just being right, it's totally normal when we're five to go, well, but why? And how do you how does this work? Yeah, we're not dumb when we ask those questions.

speaker-0: Right.

speaker-1: I'm like, wait, what? What's how angles? What wide angle? What you know, over-the-shoulder shot? What wait, what? I actually did a pretty good job. I asked a lot of dumb questions of my crew, and they were all willing to help me and teach me. And and they also didn't know everything either. So we're all learning together, and that's actually the beauty. of working with a young team and all my team was in their twenties except for like two other women and it was great. So put yourself with in in the with other people who are learning. So I'm in my fifties, my crew's in my twenties. We're all doing this as a learning experience. Yeah. And I was very front about that too. So it's nice to be with people who are like, yeah, I don't know. Let's learn together. Yeah.

speaker-0: And it also sounds like you brought humility to this issue to the whole thing, which made it so you were asking questions and you weren't acting like, I know, because you didn't know. You were learning with them. And sometimes I think people who are older are afraid of admitting that they don't know something because they don't want to look dumb or or whatever it might be. And but, you know, you were just honest about like your knowledge and what you needed.

speaker-1: Yeah. And it was challenging. And also I'm like, I know how to do a production queue. Like I know how to move things through production. So that's what we're doing. okay. Like I would calm down about it too when I realized, we're just moving things through a production queue and it's gonna get quality control pretty soon. Just like the editorial process and I which I know really well for fiction and I my stuff goes through tons of edits. Yeah. Like give me feedback. Exactly. You know? I love

speaker-0: Exactly. Love it.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: What were some of the fears that came up when you started pursuing this this dream?

speaker-1: well, really like how to get from where I was to the next step. Like having a script which was somewhat easy in that I could understand, I could sit down and write, but then but now what? Every time it was like now what? And so part of me was I didn't know where this would go. I didn't sit down to write the script intending to shoot it. I just wrote it because I wanted to play in the new medium and it's always been my dream. Henrietta the dragon player on screen. So I'm like, let me try, you know. Yeah. fumble around in here. I mean, now I've already expressed like my current fears is how will it be received? Yeah. and when I was starting out, I was also like, How do I find my place here? You know, in a in an industry like film, it's like, well, I know story, but how I think of story is different than how screen writing screenwriters think of story. So where's the crossover? Yeah. So I was like Things for the translation key, you know. and and in some things there aren't translation keys because film is visual and words on a page, you know. Yeah. So still I had to figure out how do I take my know-how and transfer it over. And it wasn't easy. And it it's, you know, so I had to like slow down sometimes and like do lots of YouTube searches and like, okay, what is this and what is that? Yeah. and even now I'm like. intellectually I know that I'm the one who needs to go out and get investors eventually. And also right now I'm the one who needs to go and and raise money, some more money for the film. And part of me is like, can I do it? How will I be received? Sounds familiar? You know? Will people like me? You know am I gonna be I mean, th I don't really think I'm gonna be laughed out of the room because I'm gonna make sure I create I join rooms that are supportive, but I'm gonna encounter skeptics, I'm gonna encounter I might even encounter other ages, people are like, You can't do that, you're too old. I'm like, Okay. You know, yeah. Other people projecting upon me about the way it should be done. people are always telling you how it should be done. Yeah. But that but who don't know anything about it. I love that

speaker-0: Well it's that what it sounds like is you're not internalizing their skepticism or their judgments.

speaker-1: No, no, I'm constantly purposely looking for examples of creative people doing wild things, unexpected wild things. And also, you know, people who do I don't know, I had the good fortune of being at an Ariana Grande concert recently. And I was blown away by her artistry and her passion and how sh it's like her vision. You really feel this is her vision. And her voice and her messages. And that stadium had, I don't know, 50,000 people, maybe more. I was like, whoa, look at all these people who love her. I mean, love her. Yeah. And I just, you know, when I see that or other other fandoms, you know, I'm just like, wow. You never know. So I'm constantly making sure I am reminded that the artistic visions that we have, they can find a home. Yeah. I have to believe that. Otherwise I'd give up. Yeah. I have to believe that, you know. And I write like cross-genre niche stuff, and I don't know how it's going to be received, but working with the young people, sharing my ideas with them, they were positive. They liked these ideas. They resonated with my character. They enjoyed the process of creation. There's different things about the how we're telling the story visually that are really fun and campy. And you know, people are responding positively. yeah, that's what. So I know that people will people the will it will find its audience. So I just have to remind myself that and and I need to give myself almost daily reminders. Yes. Yes. That's artists there's an audience for us.

speaker-0: Yes, I think a lot of times and I say this with love toward the industry because I I know that a lot of people who are in like the publishing and film industry get jaded, right? Like they're they get tired, they get jaded. And I understand why. It's not necessarily that I think it's like a personal failing. But I think a lot of times the messaging just like sinks back to the artist of like, this isn't possible. Most books don't find their audience, like all these all this messaging of what you can what's what's possible and what's not possible. And honestly, the people who you seem to make it are just people who are just delusional and just sort of like, I'm gonna make it happen. Like this it's gonna work for me. And I'm gonna believe.

speaker-1: That's right. You gotta believe and then you gotta take action. I mean, I'm constantly reminded, like, I could do more, like with marketing for book marketing, you know. Yeah. You know, yeah, I forgot about that, or yeah, I need to put some more attention on that because it's easy to give up. It's easy to think that our past evidence of low or no responses is the way it is. Yes, that's just then. Let's go out and make some noise. See what happens. Yes. That was and the world is constantly changing. And it's like fast moving streams and of rivers and et cetera. Like you can't step into the same river twice, guys. Yes. You know, last year is not the way it is right now. It's

speaker-0: Right.

speaker-1: so different. Everything is changing. It's gonna continue to change. So I even just realized I hadn't the way I marketed Henrietta the Dragon Slayer 15 years ago, I could actually come back around and do another version of that launch. Yep. Yeah, I could do a new launch. In fact, I'm going to because I'm re you know, this whole brand the brand of Henrietta the Dragon Slayer I'm preparing to do a big launch because I want to make a TV show. Yeah. So there's a lot of behind the scenes cleaning up and everything and getting ready. And it's going to take us little while, but I could do what I did before, which was give away books to moms and grandmas and aunties and who had a teen who might be interested. But now I know my audience a bit better and I know different pockets. Yeah. People, young military women, because my heroine was former military, you know, still mid middle age women. but also now I know that the twenty somethings they resonate with her as well. Yeah. Because I So I I'm like, I just need to do the hustle to get it out there. You know, and new ways, you know, new tools exist that didn't exist then. So Yeah.

speaker-0: think that's something that's really this is an interesting conversation because I do think that businesses do this better than artists. Like businesses will have a bad launch and they won't be like small

speaker-1: Let's throw away the whole

speaker-0: business. They'll be like, okay, let's do a new another launch and like try it again. Whereas I do think publishers and some you know, artists are like, God, if I launch this and it flops, like it's dead in the water and it's never gonna nothing's gonna happen. That's not the case. Like you you just try again. And you do it again. And you just keep iterating, right?

speaker-1: Yeah. Try new things, talk to new people, go learn something else new, try a new technology. Yeah. Try something you've never tried before. Like I did a lot. I mean, because I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years and I launched my novel maybe year five of that business, but I had also written and launched nonfiction. before that, I I kind of knew and I'd had some flops. Hey guys, I'm offering a class. No one signs up. All right, that's trying something else. Yeah. You know, you deal with the rejection. And then you're like, okay, how else could I do it that maybe is more fun? Maybe that wasn't in complete alignment. Let me try something that's a little more in alignment. What does that that even mean? Yeah, you know, trial and error. Yep.

speaker-0: Yeah, I was it's funny, I feel like every episode of the podcast I mentioned Amy McNee because I love her. She's inspired to write on Instagram if and people who are listening to the podcast are like probably blowing their eyes because they're like, You talk about her in every episode. But I mention her because sh I think maybe a year or two ago she relaunched a book that she had published. I don't remember what year she had published it, maybe twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. And she was like, This deserves another launch and I'm relaunching it. I'm relaunching the whole book. And she like did this whole push and it really increased her sales. And she was like, that was like such a good experience and a good decision for me, both as an artist and as a business owner. And it was like, you know, you can do new things with your old art. Like it's not like it's just like, okay, it's over. And I I love that you can do that and that people are are understanding. that when you do something for the first time, sometimes it doesn't work out because it's your first time. Like I don't know if is it Brene Brown who was it her first podcast episode that she was like, this is gonna be shit because it's my first episode. Right. And then she kept going because she's like, Yeah, it's my it was my first fucking time. And now I'm just gonna get better and better. And so you there's like so many opportunities to change and shift. And I think it's also empowering that you you seem to have like a very I can do this attitude, which I think makes all the difference.

speaker-1: Yeah. It it's again that like obstinate optimism that I just came up with today. that I've always had. Yeah. and a little bit blinders on, a little bit like la la la la la, you know, like whatever you say, world, I'm doing my best.

speaker-0: Did were you raised that way? Have you always been that way? Or is it something you

speaker-1: I've always been that way. I think it was a survival mechanism, like a lot of creative people who hide in books. You know, I'm like, whatever you all are, drama, drama over there. It was my way of dealing with the drama in my world. Yeah. You know, and being in my books and kind of, but mom's like, no, you popped out that way, Beth. You know? Like I I've always had a a mind of my own. I always had a sense of like, this is what I want, and I'm gonna go for it, even when it was hard, you know. I have born with a physical disability. I'm like, yeah, so what? Like when you're born with something what I have, you know, without all my fingers and couldn't hold a crayon my hand, you know, until mom put it in their hand and whatever. You're like, okay. Like you don't know any different. I had tantrums, I'm sure, because I the way kids have tantrums, but and there is a little bit of like it's kind of coming back around. I'm studying jujitsu, y'all. Just started jujitsu. Love it. I love it. It is of all the martial arts I've tried so far, it's it's scary, but it's also feels very grounding and very much like you're on the ground, you learn how to grapple, you don't know how to fall and get up and crawl and move on the ground. And I was like, yeah, I walked late. I must have been on the ground a lot. Yeah, I totally weird, right? Crawling, crawling, crawling. So I was there an extra year. So I'm like, this feels really familiar. So that to say you know, there's a persistence I think that's built in. And I think anyone when we're very small, we have it. We all have it. That's how we learn to walk and talk and and do things in the world. We all have this level of like, what is this? And then fall down, get up, fall down, get up. You know, and I I did have a nurturing environment. I absolutely I felt, you know, art was in the house, creativity, music, languages, diverse foods. It was like A playful a playful space in a lot of regards.

speaker-0: Yeah, I love that. I it's this is reminding me I need to be Dululu. I feel like my my husband is and John, you're probably watching this, hello. Because he does my edits. My husband's a very logical person, right? And you know, he's an engineer and I'm like the one who's like, Let's dream all these crazy things, and he's like, But logically how how can we make it happen? I'm like, I don't care!

speaker-1: Yeah. I mean

speaker-0: Which

speaker-1: That's good.

speaker-0: is which is very funny because he's always just like life is ever boring with you. And I'm like, would you want it any other way? I am curious when when you started, what surprised you like because filmmaking and writing have a lot of similarities, but a lot of differences. What did did filmmaking reignite anything for your writing life when you started doing filmmaking?

speaker-1: Yes. I started writing my first drafts look more like scripts and which was really fun. And I got really enamored by wide shot, medium shot close-up. Yeah. Which if you're you know, and I started incorporating into my teaching for to writers. I love that. And yeah, and being able to say, you know, you're missing a wide shot here. And they're like, wait, what? And I'm like, this is what it means. This is a wide shot. Yes. you've got too many close-ups. Pull back, pull back the camera. And I could also use that kind of language with writers because we were all watching TV and films, you know, like moment when you see the whole valley from above. Yeah. That's wide shot. You're missing that. I don't know where we are in relation to the other things. So I I'm using the language of film and it's so fun. So, so fun. I did not anticipate that. Yeah.

speaker-0: It's so funny because now I'm thinking about when I've been watching Outlander and how when you're you know, when you're watching a movie, at least as somebody who doesn't know a lot about film, I'm not usually thinking, that's a white shot, that's a close-up. That like you're just sucked into it, right? And yeah, like I'm thinking, yeah, that was a white shot of like before it like I just started to know I just as you were saying it, I was thinking like that was a white shot and that like it it grounds you in the space of like we are in this particular area of the world and then it grounds you into the characters and it's it's so interesting.

speaker-1: Exactly. So

speaker-0: Yeah. Wow.

speaker-1: useful. Yeah.

speaker-0: So

speaker-1: yeah, go ahead.

speaker-0: I was gonna ask you because we we're both entrepreneurs and I feel like I can't end this conversation without ask without asking how do you How do you manage your creative callings when you have a million other responsibilities? That is question.

speaker-1: Yeah. This is of course a whole topic. Yes. I every day is a reset. I reset every day because my to do lists are all over all over the place. And I'm okay with I mean they're in a few different specific places and I'm okay with that because that seems to be my style. Yeah. And I have a few rituals that I use to ground myself. That I keep, I feel like I'm still in practice mode with them. I'm like re-recovering certain rituals, grounding. and some are new too, like, and really conscientiously using journaling as my grounding tool.

speaker-0: I love that.

speaker-1: I have a post-it here, it says, the answer is right. I just wrote it yesterday because I was doing some major resetting yesterday. So the answer is right. And it's like, I did some brainstorming in the last few weeks and I'm like, what is the thing that has seen me this far as a novelist? it's writing. Yeah. I know there's only one thing you need to do as a novelist, right? We need to sit down and write or edit or whatever is this story is calling to do. We need to just sit down and do that. Yeah. Not tomorrow, not yesterday, right now. That's all. We just need to be focusing on the right now. And I when I realized, wow, I've spent all these years really learning how to do that. And it's the same with my business. It's the same with everything. It's still writing. It's and I needed to like bring it down to its like essential one word, right? Beth, if you can come back to your writing every day and do your I have some little rituals that I do in the writing process, plus it's like permission to say anything and everything, the to-do lists, the rants, yeah, the rituals, the grounding rituals through writing, sometimes through talking. in my voice memo that helps too but really trying to re-groove the brain into the writing.

speaker-0: A bit of an anchor. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah to anchor totally myself, the self talk. And I've really realized how much it's easy to abandon oneself when the world is telling us we should be different than who we are. Yeah. And so I've really been noticing how I have all these built-in self-abandonment rituals that I've learned from being a person in society that don't serve me. And at this age, I'm I finally like, not only you know, abandonment issues from childhood, like we people have various degrees, but I wasn't an incubator for those first two months. So I developed certain habits I of mind. That meant like, being alone is the way to be, but also being alone means no one is there, but it's not true. I don't know. I've been through lots of layers of this whole abandonment thing. But I realized, I have I how can I be with myself? Yeah. And for me it's journaling and walking and a little meditating and a little bit talking to myself. You know, so that's how I handle it because the to-do list is always gonna be there. Yep. And so I'm noticing that part of me wants to avoid all the work. Hooray games on my phone, you know? Part of me and couch and TV shows one after the other. But it's like, okay, I can I can do those things, but I can also come back to myself. Yeah. It's always been about that. Coming back to myself. And how does that look? How does that show up? And how do I make that simple? So Someone, some people have asked me in the recent years, do I have ADHD? And I'm like, well, I guess, but I I never let that stop me. Yeah. I mean, like, I I was never diagnosed as that, but I I have all the symptoms. Yeah. Because I have 10 million projects. I'm like, well, of course I have 10 million projects. I'm a creative. Yeah. You know, but it's like I'm noticing also with age. And the whole thing that happens as your brain changes in in menopause, that I need my grounding rituals more than ever. I need to re-commit to them. I need to re-groove the brain. And I need to like re I'm in a in a phase. I'm hitting my second Saturn return. Like, yeah, I need to polish off all the things that work really well and recommit. Recommit and that's all I can do. Yeah.

speaker-0: What were when you started your grounding practices?

speaker-1: well, I went to the Berkeley Psychic Institute in my twenties. So I had a phase there where I was like meditating every day for like 20 minutes to an hour. so in my twenties I started. I think I really started, I remember when I was 2020, I was dating a tarot reader who was reading tarot cards on Berk on Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley. Yeah, very complication. And he would meditate and I was like, So I was meditating before I joined the Berkeley Psychic Institute in my I think it was like twenty six when I did that.

speaker-0: Nice.

speaker-1: so I was reading Tarot and doing all of that starting like twenty, twenty one, twenty two. And yeah, so long time trying different things, transcendental meditation, in the body meditation, which is what I do now. Yeah. Versus I'm not trying to quiet the mind. I'm just trying to let the body ground. Let the body ground. It's very different. Yeah. In fact we We I might start putting out some of these meditations because we're doing them in my small groups. that I'm coaching in my Creative Entrepreneur Incubator group and my and especially. So yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0: I think it's really interesting because as somebody who is diagnosed ADHD, that's probably one of the hardest things for me is just grounding and not self-abandoning. Cause my mother and I both have a type of ADHD where we tend to just go go. And I was raised that way. Like at she was always doing something, she was always getting stuff done. 'Cause that's how she was raised, right? She was raised to you get stuff done and you do what needs to be done. military family, all that stuff. And My mom, you know, I she never really rested when I was growing up. She would just like do what she had to do. And now I have to catch myself and be like, I can journal right now. I don't have to like do the dishes this second or do the sweeping this second. Like it's not an emergency. You know, is it's like I can do this in in a few minutes after I've done my own work with my own self. And that sounds very simple. But it actually has been very helpful to remember that like being with myself is a way of of self care. And I don't say self care in like the like, you know, just like have lots of boundaries and never see people kind of self care. I mean like the self care of being with yourself as an artist, you know.

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. One of my favorite practices these days is to sit on my patio with my coffee and just listen. Yeah. And notice and the birds and the sky and 'cause I had, especially because of the pandemic, I was like always listening, like listening to music and YouTube and blah blah blah was a way to handle the stress. Mm-hmm. And now that well we're in different stressors, but like not that stress. I'm like, you know, I wanna, I just wanna listen. I just want to listen to the birds. I have a lovely the Cornell Merlin bird app I just downloaded. Love that. so I can be obsessive about birds, which I have been since I was a child. But you know, I can just commune with nature and watch the bugs, and my cat will come sit on my lap and just marvel at the beautiful world I live in. And yeah, you know, so that's a meditation in itself, just being keen with. we're part of nature. We are part of nature. We are nature. And to really enjoy that and be in nature and I take walks. I take pictures of flowers and you know, everything like we're this is this is our home. I'm a sci-fi writer and fantasy writer and so the sci-fi is off the planet. And so I'm constantly like thinking about the planet, thinking about this marvelous blue marble. Yeah. And that's a meditation too, you know, and I look at the stars and I'm like

speaker-0: I know.

speaker-1: It's amazing. We don't we don't know a darn thing. I mean, we know a lot, but we still don't know so much.

speaker-0: Yes, exactly. So where can people find you, Beth, if they want to learn about your work?

speaker-1: Yes, well at Beth Barani is my handle everywhere. B

speaker-0: E A R A N Y for anybody listening and doesn't know how to spell it.

speaker-1: Thank you. At Beth Barani, B-A-R-A-N-Y. And my website, Beth Barani.com, is is the main hub. if you look on on Amazon or any of the book vendors, you'll find me under that name, all my fiction. I do have an author site. Author.betbarani.com. everything's under one umbrella. Love it. I gotta keep it simple. No pen names. That's for me. That I decided no. No pen names. Yeah. And I'm accessible. You can DM me on although DMing me will take some time. It's best if you email me. I prefer email. Fair. I DMs are gonna get lost and whatever and del whatever delayed. comments on one of my Substack things. We do weekly Substack lives, Gala and I, another writing teacher. I'm out there. I'm out there and I'm right here. Also, I'm right here. Love it.

speaker-0: Well, thank you so much, Beth. I really love this conversation.

speaker-1: Monica, thank you so much for having me and for helping writers. And I'm so glad that you're there and and here and doing your wonderful things from halfway around the world. And yeah, so so glad to be here and writers, be with yourself. Be with yourself. Yes.

speaker-0: After you stop listening to this.

speaker-1: Be with yourself. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, I love it.