speaker-1: Hello and good welcome to the Self Builders podcast sponsored by Mayflower Mortgage and Finance. I'm your host, Mike Pauley. I'm flying solo today. Sam's off sick, the usual co-host, but I'm sure he'll be back for us next week. Today, I am really excited because we're speaking to Charles, who is a client of Mayflower's, who's building his own property and he's kindly. Spared some of his time to come on to share all the do's and don'ts about his project and hopefully we can help someone out there who's listening. How you doing Charles?

speaker-0: I'm good Mike, thanks for having me on today.

speaker-1: I'm written. I like I said, I am genuinely really looking forward to it. So why don't we start by, tell us a little bit about the project, paint the picture, sort of what the house is like, the finish, you know, the outer skin, is it brick? it, yeah, Vision in that, in their brain.

speaker-0: It's really a simple one. It's, I guess a lot of people dream about doing this, which is it's an old barn conversion. ⁓ So it's a Victorian, old Victorian stone building with, or it was with some derelict pieces to it and some pieces that basically needed rebuilding completely. So imagine your archetypal Cotswold barn front and back. It's just like a picture postcard. but it was basically in ruins when we found it. So it's quite an exciting one because it took us about four years to find it. I guess that in itself was a sort of a really interesting learning experience because you go into these things thinking, oh, great, I'll go on a right move and find a property. And you start looking and it was a decision that my wife and I made that once the children reached a certain age and really They were no longer here at home all the time. We'd look to move out of where we were close into London, move a bit further out and that holds sort of change of pace a little bit. I have the ability to work remotely. So as long as I've got a good internet link, and I'm sure that's the same with so many people now, ⁓ I can get into London. So long as I can be in London two or three times a week if need be, ⁓ that was really the criteria I set myself. we were pretty tight on what sort of criteria we set to find the place, which is probably why it took us a long time to find the ideal property. The other thing was, yeah, yeah, I mean, the other thing was quite honestly, it's real gray hair, it's not dye.

speaker-1: Charles. ⁓

speaker-0: Right. But the point being that actually I felt and my wife felt that it wasn't practical. We'd known people or we'd read about people and seen lots of television programs about people who lived in mobile caravans on site. And quite frankly, we didn't feel that at our stage of life. We really wanted to do that. ⁓ So we wanted to find something that fitted that bill as well, that allowed us to find a property where actually Or we could do something and we could live in a property and then do the build from there. So, so that was really the criteria is quite a, quite a tough criteria to find. And we, used, we used, I mean, we used all the regular sort of, outlets, right? Move Zoopla all of these places. And, and really the, the interesting bit about those was that we were able to look at, ⁓ the types of properties that came up within a range and types of a sale of. plots even that came within a range sort of which we felt was geographically ⁓ suitable for us. So that was where we started and then we started narrowing down sort of hotspots of where we were interested in. And at that point we start, I think that was probably the time I started discovering things like, know, build that the build hub and which is an online community and build door and a couple of the other sort of sources that there are for these plots, plot finder.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah.

speaker-0: Another one and obviously your own Mayflower plot finder service. And so we started looking at those as well. And finally, two years ago, actually just over almost exactly two years ago, two years ago, October, we were one of the alerts I had on right move funnily enough, pinged me, we saw this and it was only actually the third plot we'd been to see over that four year period. So that was

speaker-1: There's only those three that met the criteria that you guys set pretty much for you.

speaker-0: So we were really tight on that. Now obviously other people can be looser in their definition, but what I'd say in the tip that I've learned from that Mike is you do need to be really mindful of what you want out of this. If you go in and you say, I'll just take anything. Sure, I'm sure you can, but it's you've got to think what you want out at the other end. So we were very, very, very sort of, we were quite tight on that criteria. And so, and so that's really what we found. And two years ago, this thing pinged up. We came and saw it and knew immediately, literally, we just knew driving down the road. It was one of those, wow, this is it. ⁓ Plot amazing. ⁓ Yeah, just what we wanted. And ⁓ it came with planning permission.

speaker-1: read my mind I was just about to mark the time of the planning game. so did it have a full permission Charles or was it with a class Q?

speaker-0: Now it had full permission the big problem we've had and this is a lesson again This is one of those big lessons that we've learned is that it's it's actually whilst the building itself is not listed It sits within the grounds or the ex grounds of a listed farmhouse. Yeah now that that causes because it's classified as to curtilage that causes problems because as far as planning is concerned that's considered listed it's not as far as I'm concerned or anyone else is concerned. But as a result, it does mean that when we've interacted with planning, which we've had to do because of the fact that it's it's a big build, ⁓ it's, it's time consuming, it's confusing. And really what we've ended up doing now is we've engaged a consultant who acts on our behalf for us with planning because actually, this is, this is the truth. See the truth of this is that. Local planning authorities don't really know very much about listed buildings and Heritage England who have that part of it and the conservation people, it's all very complicated and it all overlaps. And you throw into the mix that actually planning doesn't understand about the other critical element which is building controls, i.e. for each other. And they don't actually understand. So planning will say, yes, you can put a bedroom here, for example, in this wing.

speaker-1: They don't speak to each other very much.

speaker-0: You get a building control and they go, well, you can't because there's no window and you can't put a window in because it's listed. So, you know, this is, this is the type of thing that you end up in this sort of circle of doom if you let yourself. ⁓ so you have to find, you have to be creative. You have to talk to lots of people. And again, this is where the consultants really come in because they, as long as it's somebody who's got local experience of dealing with local planning authority, local building control people, they can have those discussions. They can talk to you and they can also let you know what's realistically likely to fly or not. ⁓ and I think that's what I'd say is biggest tip. If it's complicated, if the, if the planning is looks complicated, don't wait, get a consultant on board, go and find someone and say, look, what's it going to cost me? Because as a, as a percentage of what you end up spending and the time and money and time and effort you end up spending spinning your wheels. Remember, each time you submit a planning application, it's potentially a three month. So, you know, we've learned probably a couple of thousand just on planning applications and we've. Burned so, you know, probably nine or twelve months now, because we started putting these things in and we didn't realize initially this was the type of thing. And even to the point where we've had planning permission granted for things, then we've realized that planning haven't talked to.

speaker-1: before they respond.

speaker-0: listed buildings.

speaker-1: Yeah. Which is obviously more time, more value. It's interesting you say that because if you A.B. test life, obviously everyone would go, you know, you'd know which way to go, wouldn't you? But yeah, anecdotally, you hear it a lot doing what we do. You know, when people go, oh, we should have got this planning consultant at this point or this PM who's been brilliant and took, you know, taking over the project and really. delivered on what we can do and or someone else can do. Yes. So you guys, you've obviously changed planning slightly to what was agreed.

speaker-0: We've just a very so we when we when we got planning when we when we bought the plot, I mean, ⁓ it had had full planning for a conversion of the agricultural building ⁓ into, you know, into a into a four bedroom house. So we had that, you know, that in writing. But but obviously, when you look at those plans and you start thinking, well, this is a self built, this isn't I'm not buying a wimpy. There's nothing wrong with a wimpy home, but I'm not buying a a box, a box which I'm going to live in. I want to actually live in something that I want to have an influence over. So we changed one or two of the things on there. And I think that, you know, there was some that that again caused delays. But the interesting piece about this is that there is a piece that links into the financing side of it as well, which is that you need to make sure that and quite frankly, I cannot fault either. either yourselves at Mayflower who arranged the funding for us or Harpenden building society who are our lenders.

speaker-1: They understand the space as well.

speaker-0: Yeah, and whilst they're not the fastest and I'd say, they're not if you're used to dealing in the sort of click and click and go.

speaker-1: The traditional.

speaker-0: This is not and the reason it is is very simple you have to remember that everything is a personal approach they look at everything and I think there are people you know that there are people when somebody says it's gone in front of an underwriter, you know, that's not a computer that's to algorithm says no, it's a it's a person and you know, you know that the comments that come back are from people they're actually from people so

speaker-1: us.

speaker-0: So, and that's absolutely, that's so important. And again, this again goes down to the fact that your lovely Glenn Chandler, who is one of your guys, who has been phenomenal in holding our hand through a very, very complex.

speaker-1: really nice it will I'll tell Glenn we'll get a snippet for Glenn

speaker-0: And you know what? have to say something else, Mike. I'm on a lot of these forums for self-builds and stuff. His name is actually on quite a few of those. There's a big tick against it. So there you go. Seriously, before I chose Mayflower, I actually spoke to the major self-build lender and another independent. And quite frankly, was when the major, I explained what I was looking for. I found a property and the major self-build lender said, ⁓

speaker-1: TIFF.

speaker-0: Did you say that the barn is next to the barn, which is a part of a farm is next to an equestrian business? And I said, yes. Oh, our lenders won't lend to a place that's close to an equestrian business. And I went, I think the call's over. Thanks very much. Bye bye. It's that the computer says no response that I got out of those other people compared to the actual hands on real, real feeling that went into finding the right funder for this project and also the right funder for us. And then that's what came out of Glenn and Mayflower. So really nice.

speaker-1: Yeah, it's easy for us to say it is more nuanced and complex than sort of your traditional purchase product. think it really is. And having someone that does it every day does make a difference. I think it's nice to hear it from.

speaker-0: No, no, you are absolutely right. And I'm absolutely mean it. It's totally, you know, I bought, you know, in my fifties and we've bought moved house a few times in our lives. And I've had probably four or five different mortgage products at least. And quite frankly, you know, if you're buying a semi detached house in the middle of a rice lip or something, then that's fine. You've got, you've got the ability to take a standard off the shelf in a box package. That's not what we're doing here.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: ⁓ And and quite frankly, there's so many complexities about this It's really nice to have somebody who really understands it and has been through it before so a good example of that is when we came to actually There was some confusion about levels of insurance on on the plot. You need plus insurance. need need site insurance And you know, makes your head spin because you also need contents insurance where you're living and you can't quite work out what's what it's a

speaker-1: started to build at this point in time either.

speaker-0: That's exactly it. Your eyes are popping out your head and you've got a builder and say what insurance do you want from me? you don't know because you've never been through this before but having somebody there who just goes right This is what you need. These are the steps Yeah, breathe deeply keep calm. It's all okay. Here's what you do and having that is just Phenomenal it's just so encouraging to have that side of it If you have to borrow money to do this type of project, which most of us do, having someone who understands that process and actually has experienced it and can walk you through it, it's priceless. It really is. It's worth all the money. So I'm a big fan of Glenn and what he's done. And that continues this day. We still have emails between each other and how's the family and all this sort of stuff. So it's really about a relationship that you set up. And it continues through this process. And where we are now, do want me to talk about Alex?

speaker-1: Yes, please. I was just about to ask, so where are you in the build and sort how involved you've been and those sorts of things?

speaker-0: Okay, so, so, I mean, I think, like, like most people, we went through a process of we initially went out to tender and eventually found ourselves with a with a builder that we were really comfortable with who had done a lot of local work. And that and then then we were due to sort of we were discussing times to start sometime middle of this year. ⁓ This is towards the end of last year, the very probably December last year and. literally at the last minute he had a client pull the project from him. ⁓ So he him and his team became free just before Christmas. And so we went from wanting to start the project in probably March, April, probably May time to actually kicking off ⁓ at the very end. We literally had scaffolders here in between Christmas and New Year last year. So suddenly and we'd only we'd only really completed because of complexities, legal complexities, we only actually completed on the property sort of early December. So we, yeah. And and and we're lucky enough to live on site or unlucky enough comes pros and cons with ⁓ You know, well, yeah, we'll look at that in a moment But I mean you might hear the beeping of the dumper out literally outside the front here Reversing backwards and forwards, you know doing drains But the point is that that we were able to accelerate that process and jump straight in ⁓ It was a good thing and a bad thing as well, but it was really a good thing hadn't actually finished sorting out the mortgage at that point so we had to self-fund some of the beginning of that build. ⁓ We'll come to numbers, I'm sure you'll want to talk about numbers later.

speaker-1: Don't mind that, really interesting I think.

speaker-0: Okay. Yeah, it was a I think the numbers are come to the numbers in a bit because I think the project to walk you through the project process where we are the state of this it's a We have you know, must be very careful again. Imagine your dream Cotswold barn. Yeah, lovely. Great. Wonderful. Everyone goes on on barn Beautiful, you know, there's all those beautiful things that you imagine ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah. or is it sort of a one and only?

speaker-0: It's a story and a half. we've done it. We've made it. We're making it so that this is one of the things we changed. We didn't want to lose the barn feeling. So we've effectively created a very, very big sort of open plan area in the middle of the barn where you between the two, the entrance and the back, if you like, which is a huge reception area. And it's vaulted and it's nearly seven meters high. So it's huge and it's got the, and the bit that we really loved is all the timber work inside. Now this is the bit where I'll link back to where we started from because actually we loved all that and we've designed all this to to retain the Barney feeling as we say. ⁓ But when we started, we knew that we were going to have to do some work because the roof was falling in and some of the big trusses had rotted. We knew that there was some engineering work. We had a structural engineer on board. Again, top tip, make sure you've got a really good structure engineer if you're do something like this. He's been invaluable. ⁓ Again, costly. It does frustrate me every time I have to sign the check for all these professionals, but quite frankly, need.

speaker-1: Yeah, I would imagine is very important.

speaker-0: If you see the work that they've done, basically we ended up having to, rather than repairing a few roof timbers, which is what I thought we'd do and re-tiling and replacing some tiles, we eventually had to take the whole roof off. So there was a point and then one of the gable walls fell, partially fell down. So we literally in February, by February, my wife and I stood here in our cottage on site going. What have we bought? We've bought three and a half walls of Cotswold stone and nothing more.

speaker-1: Really tough with conversions though because sometimes you don't know until you get going what you're

speaker-0: That's one of the tips I'd say, Mike. ⁓ I think if I were, you know, to be totally candid, I think that we were very naive to believe that we could do this within the defined budget that we had, even though we'd allowed a 25 % contingency. We were very, very naive because, ⁓ you know, the contingency, because we ended up having to take the roof off, we had to replace every single roof timber except the main trusses. Two of those out of five, we had to repair. So because it's listed as well, you have to be incredibly careful. You have to use original materials and scarf joints and everything else. So and it was Elm. It just blew you my mind how much it costs just to put the roof back on. So so within, you know, within three months, which is pretty much the time when we were sort of getting the mortgage together, we pretty much blown straight through our contingency. ⁓

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-0: Just because it's a really costly job. can't, you know, hiring cranes and taking bits off. And as my as my builder says, you could have built ⁓ a nine instead of building renovating three and a half thousand square foot. said you could have built a nine and a half thousand square foot house for this. So.

speaker-1: just said really tough though you you budgeted on what you expected and so you don't know sometimes until you get going does happen a fair lot a fair amount of time with existing older dwellings ⁓ i've been there and you get going and it's just

speaker-0: And it just every time you do something you use a number of other things that need to be done to make sure that you know, ⁓ we're gonna replace a roof timber. Well, that means you're gonna take the roof off. ⁓ well, that means you're gonna replace every single one of the tiles because all of them are broken or in a state where you can't put them back. Now. ⁓ right. Okay. Well, actually, ⁓ look, the gable walls fallen down. So we're gonna rebuild the gable wall, you know, and that and that theme is is one that continued for the first really the first half of this year. Whilst we were sort of repairing the fabric and replacing the bits that needed replacing. know, there were some walls in place. They became very clear that whilst we'd surveyed them before, that actually when it came down to it, the weather changed. If you remember this time, sort of in beginning of this year and actually the end of last year, we'd surveyed the property in the summer of 2020, whatever last year was, 2023, when it was dry, wind forward six months. The weather has been soaking for three months. We came to start looking at the building and looking at the foundations and building off the walls that were existing. And the engineer turned around and said, there's no foundations. They're just going to collapse if we build on them. So, you you go, ⁓ no, ⁓ what are we going to do? We're going to have to go to planning and talk to planning and tell them what we're going to do. And then we're going to have to rebuild everything. More time. So that's the type of thing we need to, I think everyone needs to be aware that The best plan in the world and I had every single detail of this plan of this build down to a you know I mean like where the light switches were going to go the cost of the lights which is everything that side of it's really easy It's just the bits that you don't see as you just said Mike that you can't the bits that you just don't know It's the unknown unknowns if you like

speaker-1: Exactly that on existing dwellings is always the... So I always ask the guys as a sort of standard operating procedure, if you like, when we're speaking to people that are renovating sort of older barn buildings, normally we get quite a lot of those, ask if there's a structural report, because at least that gives a good baseline understanding of what the structure's like, because it can really unfold a little otherwise later on.

speaker-0: We were lucky we didn't have to underpin the main barn so that much wood that saved us a hundred grand. Yeah. If you can say it like that because exactly as you say. Yeah, that we were it was a touch and go situation with as I say the with the state of the of the ground because it got so saturated we were worried about it. But as a result of the saturation we then had another problem we had water.

speaker-1: Yeah. Is Yeah.

speaker-0: And that was the other thing that I would say, watch out for drainage. And I know everyone says drainage is that unknown. But actually, it's one of those things where, ⁓ you know, we bought, on the plans, there was a drainage plan. And the drainage plan had it all set out. There was main drains connection, which is unusual around here, ⁓ which had been done. ⁓ And there was all the flood water or the rainwater. ⁓ drainage had already been, apparently had been connected. We couldn't understand why we had a lot of water coming in until we actually dug the foundations of one of the wings. And we discovered that at some point in the last 30 years, someone at some point had cut through the connection between this property and the next door, which used to be part of the same farm, they'd cut through the flood drain. So basically, all of the water from the roofs of every single property around here was ending up at the front of our building and just going straight through into it. ⁓

speaker-1: So ⁓ unknown, isn't it? That's not something you can build in.

speaker-0: You can't is again. It's another example of one of those things where your contingency needs to be big enough to deal with that Yeah, and if it's not then you you're gonna you're gonna run struggle But you need to make sure that and again, we were lucky We've been able to dig into some savings on top of what our budgets were and so forth to take that hit But you know, we also had to tank but as a result of that we've tanked we fully waterproofed the whole building So the whole building now is tanked and there's we today they're putting in the sump pumps to make that so Where we are in the bill, which is probably where you want to get to is is we now are ⁓ we're just glazing. We're finishing the glazing this week and we'll be so we wind and water tight effectively ⁓ and the ⁓ screen and underfloor heating will be in by Christmas. So we are hoping that during January, we can actually switch the pump on and actually start drawing the place out ⁓ and then.

speaker-1: internal you know you superstructures all in ground works you're playing sailing really I would say yeah

speaker-0: That's exactly it. mean, once that I think I look at it a little bit like long, you know, forecasting how much you're to spend on a project like this is a little bit like long range weather forecasting, the further away from a point you are, the less accurate you are in that. Yeah. And you've got to have that flexibility in your budgeting. And again, again, big tip, make sure your funder is flexible, because if you need to draw money down, you know, tomorrow or whatever, you need to be able to call them up and go, Help, I need some money. And actually, Harpondone have been really, really good. I think you need to make sure you give all lenders enough notice ⁓ to do that.

speaker-1: in interim inspection. Sometimes they do want one. Yeah.

speaker-0: It's one of those, I think there's a sort of almost like a tick box exercise with some people that need them. It's not like we haven't, if you were to borrow against this as a finished property, the loan value will be very low because of the amount of equity we put in. But even so, some lenders just sort of almost a peace of mind thing, just to say, we just make sure you're doing the work, I think.

speaker-1: on the drive or something like that. the reasons. Can I ask you about some numbers, Charles? Just look at what to sort of... where you guys are... So what did you originally budget if you don't mind?

speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. So. Yeah, the original budget was around 700. We'd agreed to borrow

speaker-1: That's about £200,000 a square metre.

speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. exactly. 200 and I think it was working out about 220 pounds a square meter is what we sort of 200 to 220 square meters.

speaker-1: 220 square foot, that would have been.

speaker-0: a square foot, yeah, two and a half.

speaker-1: Yeah

speaker-0: So somewhere around there was what we sort of budgeted for. I think what, and actually, funnily enough, that has been the most accurate, that's been the most accurate sort of budgeting exercise, because we've actually, because we've changed the plans, we've expanded the footprint a little bit. We haven't expanded the footprint, but there was a carport which

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-0: was actually completely surplus. is a, you we've got acres of land and a massive great farm yard and we have no intention of putting our cars in a carpool. It's a beautiful building. I'm not going to build a, I'm not going to build a hundreds of thousands, millions of pounds worth of property to put my, to live in with my cars next to my bed. So no, I'm sorry. I don't mind building a detached garage or something like that, but I just didn't want to be, have this car thing in the house. So. No, so we've changed that. we've got rid of we pushed out that we've applied for and we've had planning permission agreed and we're just waiting for the final tick box, but it's all agreed. So that we effectively have pushed out the square square meterage a little bit. I think we gained about 30, know, that was it. It must be probably about 35, 40, 40, 35 to 40 square meters. So it's.

speaker-1: ⁓ you still did not figure anything.

speaker-0: Yeah, so it's we're all in the same envelope. Nothing's changed. Everything's been agreed. So ⁓ it's just that obviously that there's a little bit more cost involved in that, but it's not it's not major compared to what we've budgeted and what's already been spent. ⁓ So that again is something you need to be aware of it, particularly with a project that is like this or anything that's a renovation, I suspect you do tend to. You can't be a hundred percent. Whilst everybody, I mean, I came in with an absolutely fixed concrete plan of what we were going to have and work with the architect to produce that in a format that would be acceptable to everybody. And then as things unfolded, we just had, you have to be able to have some flexibility in that, in a building like this. You're not building from a set of plans that is, It's just not possible to do it in a building like this where you have this changing dynamic and the fabric of the building is in some ways is not as secure. It's just not secure in certain places. And, you start.

speaker-1: you get going. You didn't know there was a common wee neighbour 40 years ago that dropped into the pipe.

speaker-0: Exactly. It seems like that way. say, well, okay, well, as a result of that, you've got to put a drain underneath the building and you've got X and Y. And it doesn't matter just really what you do. You've got to have a bit of flexibility and that costs. There's always a financial impact to that, as you know, when you change the plans. So having that is where we've come out at. But I think we budgeted for around, let's say, for around 700. We'll, we'll end up around on I'm going to say about eight, 800 to 825.

speaker-1: with the additional works it's not a huge percentage you know

speaker-0: Really? mean, it is and it isn't. And when people say, well, what's it worth? And I think that's always the thing that people say, what's it worth? It's our own home and we build our own home. And when somebody says, well, what's it worth? I'll say, it's worth the fact that I know I put in a dog bath in our utility room so that when they come in from the fields, I can bathe them. Yeah. What? Yeah. And people look like, I'm mad. You don't need that. No, I don't need that. But I built my own home.

speaker-1: and so I'm going home.

speaker-0: And a motorbike, but if I built my own motorbike, maybe I put an extra on the motorbike. Yeah, I don't know. No, it's it is it we built what we want. I mean, and that's the beauty of this. And that's the user choosing. You're not putting up with what somebody else has done and what they've said you need to have. know, there are certain limited certain regulations you need to comply to. But effectively, we wanted an environmentally sustainable home. So we've built it with considerably more installation than we needed for the. for building regs purposes. We're running an air source heat pump. Initially, I can't afford the solar panels, but we're putting a battery in so that we'll be able to charge everything overnight on the cheap rates and run it fairly ⁓ cheaply. The estimates that we get from the heating that's going to be in there from an electric heating perspective will be, it'll be less than half what we're spending in our little tiny cottage, two-bedroom cottage at the moment that's got no insulation in it. ⁓ So, you know, I wanted to do those things. We wanted somewhere that's got a beautiful view. It's got all those things that you asked for.

speaker-1: That's pretty much it, isn't it? When you build a place you want to be, it's about sounding too cheesy.

speaker-0: Yeah, it is. Sorry, it is cheesy, but that's what you you want to, part of what this is, and this is the whole point about what you do and what Mayflower does and what we've been involved in is it's a lifestyle choice. know, is it, I know that some people say, well, is it good or is it bad? Well, it's not really a good or bad situation. There's a certain pain that goes through this. You have your highs and you have your lows with this, Mike. And I'm sure that you what you want to hear about that probably too, don't you?

speaker-1: Well, it sounds like you've given us a lot of the low lows to be honest with you.

speaker-0: I think we have, think the highs, the highs are actually when you, it's getting up in the morning, it's days like today when the sun is shining and I walk out the front door here and I have this, the sun is coming through all of the glass that's there and there's this incredible vista and I think, and sometimes when you have your lows you have to, I keep a diary but I also keep a photo diary, a photo journal. And when things have been really, really low, when the drainage, I think the drainage when we had, actually I thought we were doing a reenactment of the film 2017. Have you seen the film, Mike? Have you seen the film?

speaker-1: Is it where the big flood comes in?

speaker-0: No, it's the Somme. It's in the Somme. No, 97. In the Somme. I swear that I kept thinking that I was going to see someone pop a little helmet come out from underneath one of the trenches. We had two meter trenches all the way out in our garden, dozens of them, whilst we were trying to sort out the water. And I think that to me was the lois point ever. He was like, oh, what have we done?

speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓

speaker-0: because basically we were flooded and we were trying to get rid of water. And that was obviously a big problem. you have to consider that in the grander scheme of things, and again, I think with the advantage of age, you realize you can step back a little bit. One has to step back and just reflect on where you've come from with a project like this. And this is the same for any self-builder, I think. You look at that.

speaker-1: Good advice in general

speaker-0: Sorry? Yeah, it is. I mean, but you have to. I mean, you have to because we all get stuck in the mutai of the moment, whether it's, oh, my bins didn't get empty today or, oh, my heating's leaking or something like, you know, and we all see that as being absolutely critical for our survival. But, you know, at end of the day, most of us, luckily, who are looking at this podcast, don't have that position. They're in a position of luxury. live in good housing. We live in houses and we have roofs over our heads and we're making choices that most people would give their back teeth for. So, you you have to look at it that way because otherwise, you sometimes you go mad if you didn't. But yeah, I think that those are lows there and the highs. Yeah, the highs will every time I go out and I walk into the place and I. particularly now it's nearly Wind of Walshite and you just have this amazing, wow, I look out here and look at all the beautiful stonework that's been done. I'll say another tip actually, I have to give you this one as well.

speaker-1: I think you've given some really good, let's give it this three or four.

speaker-0: Yeah, there's a couple I'd say as well When you take a project like this on you think I thought that when I said, ⁓ yes, we'll need You know, we'll need 150 tons or 250 tons of Cotswold stone or stone, know, that's what that's what I so you imagine that you're gonna call Amazon up and say right Can you deliver a couple of hundred tons of this stuff? That's not how it works. That's a little secret. That's not how it works somebody finds a large rock and then somebody else takes a large hammer and goes, that's about right. And that happens with every single one of these. I couldn't for the first three weeks, I just couldn't get over. I kept getting up in the morning and go, what are these people doing? They're all with, they're making bricks and that's what they're doing. And a friend of mine had told me this about a Flint house that he built and told me that this is just the most arduous thing, really it's just mind blowing. It's what it is here. So any natural stone building really, if you want to fit into the vernacular and particularly where you've got planning constraints.

speaker-1: They look beautiful though, but they do get more expensive.

speaker-0: Precisely. Yeah. And you know, you're paying somebody who's not cheap to just stand there and knock a knock a knock a brick and create a brick every few minutes. So so that's a that's something you need to be really mindful of it. And and I also felt that

speaker-1: It's in the world Charles, isn't it?

speaker-0: That was as bad as saying. It's the labor involved. And because these guys are artisans generally, if you've got a good build team like we have, they really care. They really care. I see the stonemason out there sometimes, and he's literally going through individual stone rocks going, okay, with a tape measure. And then he's going to the wall and he's just putting it in. And it's like, ⁓ that's probably just cost me 10 pounds in labor, just trying to find it. It's that sort of, but you have to just, you have to realize that's what's involved and also appreciate. And, you know, for us, my wife as well, we'd go out there on days and that's the wows. When we go out and we see something that these guys have done and you go, ⁓ okay, the brick detailing and the actual care that goes into the tiling or whatever it is. And you go, wow, that's pretty special. And that's done.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

speaker-0: And they're doing it for you, not for somebody else, not for Wimpy Homes, not for a ABC PLC, it's for Charles and Jeanette. And that's how it is. So that's the thing. And the final big tip, and this is one that I have been badly bitten by, pay for everything that you pay for, want to pay for, whether it's glazing, bits of heating staff, whatever, pay for it on a credit card.

speaker-1: I'm sure someone else has given us that tip in the past year.

speaker-0: You should have this across the whole banner of your website because we've just lost 12,000 pounds to a heating engineer going bust. If we have one pound of that on a credit card, the whole lot is reclaimable.

speaker-1: That is a top, top, top tip.

speaker-0: Yeah. It's the credit, the credit, I think it's called the credit rule of 75. But it's basically a law that means that if you pay for anything with a credit card, no matter how much or contribute towards it, so long as the total value is less than 30,000 pounds, they will reinstate the whole lot. If it's over 30,000 pounds, I think they'll pay back up to 30. So it's a no brainer. And even if it's Even if it's something you know that you're going to pay for out of your, or that, you know, it's coming out of a different budget, pay for some of it. Just pay for 20 pounds of it on a credit card because then everything's covered. Even, you know, I've just had umpteen tens of thousands, lots and lots and lots of value of windows put in. I made sure that I did pay for a little bit of that on a credit card because you're giving all of this money to someone, a lot of it in advance and...

speaker-1: If a

speaker-0: But that's something again, Windows is interesting. Out of the five window companies we engaged, four of them wanted all the money upfront, everything upfront, either in stages of 50%, 12 weeks before, and the rest two weeks before they insured. It doesn't have to be that way. You can find good window companies, go and find someone who is prepared to retain 20 % or 25 % until you're happy. because that's right. so, but it's amazing. We have literally got to the point with our chosen window provider, our first provider, we got to the point where was a, wanted all, they wanted 50 % 12 weeks in advance and the remaining 50%, six weeks in advance. And I said, well, no, I need a retainer. And they said, we can't do one. I said, well, I can't do business with you. And they walked away.

speaker-1: fair, it, as well? I'll feed in a top tip on this one for others that are doing this and maybe can't find favorable terms. You can take something called an advanced payment bond, which is not an insurance policy technically, but very similar to an insurance policy where the bond holder who underwrites the bond essentially will hold the risk of the advanced payment. And if that company goes bust, there's two types you can use, you can effectively claim a hundred percent of it back from the bond. It costs you, know, they're normally about eight to 10 % of the pre-value. Yeah. Yeah. So that, but usually you could lay that, try and lay it onto the company. Yeah. There's a few ways around it, but it is a real top tip, particularly in construction renowned for, for people, know, going under.

speaker-0: And quite frankly, I mean, you know, we know, this guy, our heating and ventilation engineer, 12 grand of our money, a third of the total, off he goes. Gone. Evaporated.

speaker-1: Top tip bombshell. think we should end on that one. So let's round up quickly. I want to respect your time. So the top tip is pay on the credit card. think that is awesome. I mean, you've saved people money there. That for sure. that's the other one was if there's complexities around planning, try and engage professionals early as you can to try and save those resubmissions and, you know, extra cost and extra time. The other one with drainage on the site, which you mentioned, just get an idea of the I suppose, to photography along with the drainage as an idea. Yeah. The times that aren't unfavorable or unfair, which might sound common sense, but I suppose if you're speaking to three or four or five different people and they're all saying a similar thing, you may be, you know, railroaded to a certain extent to go around.

speaker-0: You are. And actually the comment that came back to me from our chosen window provider who we didn't go with in the end was everybody, there's nobody that will offer you better terms than us. And that was a bare faced lie. Yeah, I do. Absolutely. They're a company called, they're still doing it. So I hope they're still complete. They're doing QBD and they're based in Cheltenham and we're using, yeah, we're using origin. So it's the origin series of

speaker-1: I'd say the guys you used in the end

speaker-0: windows, bifolds, and French doors that's going in. And they've got a really good range. They're really, really competitively priced. There's lots of, and don't take, do not take what you're being given as your pricing for granted. Make sure you do go and shop around. And also they have a really fast turnaround. We had a situation with a couple of windows that needed to be remade. They turned that around in 48 hours.

speaker-1: That in itself is another beautiful thing to have with manufacturer working with a supply.

speaker-0: And they're based in the UK. I mean, they're a UK company, so you're not shipping it to Germany or... So yeah, definitely a big shout out to Origin and QBD.

speaker-1: Awesome. There you go QBJ. Free shout out for you. Thanks for coming on Charles and thanks for listening everyone.

speaker-0: Thanks.