speaker-1: and welcome back Self Builders podcast brought to you by Mayflower Mortgage and The podcast for anyone planning or building their own home. ⁓ One of reasons we started this podcast to cut through the theory and talk about what actually happens on real projects. So I'm really happy to say that we've got Rachel. on today who has kindly agreed to come and share her story about her own self build and she's actually been living in it for a little while now, which is great as usually we sort of get into the end when we have these conversations. So Rachel, thank you so much for joining us. And yeah, it's all right with you. Start at the beginning, introduce yourself, tell the listeners a bit about sort of where you were in life when the idea of self building first came about.

speaker-0: Absolutely, thank you so much for having me. ⁓ It's great to be here and actually share my experience with other people that may be going through the same thing. So I'm Rachel and I am officially, I'd say, self builder and have been a self builder for a couple of years now. ⁓ And it's mad to still think I'm still in that category almost because I felt like when we finished the build, actually, I'm not really a self builder anymore. I'm just someone that lives in a house or a barn. ⁓ But our journey started around about maybe two, three, four, five years ago. Yeah, so about five years ago. And we always wanted to double garage. We were in the heights of COVID. Everyone wanted to move house. Of course they did. And it was a matter of we'd been in our previous house for about six years. So we were ready to move on, ⁓ but we couldn't afford to move on. ⁓ So instead of just sitting tight thinking what our mortgage rate's gonna do, what's going to happen. It was almost in the midst of things that we were looking for opportunity. And that's when we thought, right, okay, great. And an opportunity arose and we jumped straight into it. And we didn't really think about it too much. It was almost like in the midst of it, we could see the finish line almost before we'd even started. when everyone said, like when we were telling people about what we were going to do, it was a matter of, my God, what are you going to do? And it was like, I don't know, I'm just going to build a house and it'll be great. ⁓ So we first started off, we got the plot and we have planning permission on the plot and we ⁓ were really fortunate with our first house that we bought that we had quite a bit of equity in the property when we sold it. ⁓ So our plan was to actually live in that house, build up the equity. and then sell it towards the end of the build when we needed the money and have a self-build mortgage at the same time. However, it got to the part where mortgage rates were changing, selling was more challenging. So we just thought, right, okay, well, what we'll do, we'll put it on the market, we'll see what happens and go from there. So that's what we did and it sold within a week. So that's times.

speaker-1: times I remember the mark

speaker-0: So that's when we sold, we panicked because then no one would give us a rental property. ⁓ And we hadn't officially started the build at this point. It was a matter of we'd got electric, we got water, we got the basics for the builders to start, but anything else, there was nothing else here. ⁓ So we bought a caravan and that's when we lived on site and project managed the self build ourselves because, well, myself was here, my husband goes to work, I work from home. I could be at home project manage the build and then yeah, worked. Something happened above us where we were like, wow, this is working out for us that it kind of just fell into place at the right time.

speaker-1: So yeah, it's a proper leap of faith and it's quite amazing. Taking it back to sort of the plot decision itself, so obviously you didn't have to go through the full rigmarole of planning and that side on the plot itself. You bought it with planning. Was it in the same sort of location you were living previously? Have you branched out or?

speaker-0: No, we've not gone too far. So where we are based now, we're based in where I grew up, probably about 15 minutes away from where I grew up and where we first literally bought was probably about half an hour or 40 minutes away from here. So I always wanted to come back out into the countryside. ⁓ But where we are is quite rural. So house prices were quite high. So to be able to afford where we were or where we are now, it was a matter of, right, we're going to have to seek other opportunities. And that's when we came across doing a self build and you know in the grand scheme of things how hard can it be but little did we know at that point. Absolutely, it was like, yeah, how hard can it be? no, we didn't move too far from where we were, but in terms of the plot that we wanted, we wanted, you know, we wanted the double garage, we wanted to have a massive garden, and there were the factors that made us decide on this plot.

speaker-1: So it was that particular design. You did the church itself build one from necessity in terms of nothing on the open market, but also being able to sort of get exactly what you want out of the property. there are two things that makes such a big difference when you do it yourself. You can really bespoke it to what you want. So what did you build then? So what is it? it two bed, three bed, four bed?

speaker-0: Three bed barn conversion. It's completely detached. We've got two en suites upstairs and one bedroom downstairs. ⁓ Massive kitchen diner, which is a dream. It's where we live all the time. It's a fantastic room. ⁓ And yeah, so it's perfect. There's just the two of us. So we live downstairs all the time, sliding doors, ⁓ massive garden out the back. it's... just ticked all the boxes for us and that's what sold it. was like having a kitchen diner, being able to cook and look outside, you know, of something that we built. It's Cheshire brick, Welsh slate and the windows, the majority of them are full auto ceiling glass to keep the barn in keeping with, you know, the area that we live in.

speaker-1: Amazing. I'm a little touch on the money side where some people get nervous. You sort of jumped into it at the start. How confident were you that you sort of understood the true cost of the build and were you sort of okay with that side? Did you have everything lined up before you jumped or was it a jump and then?

speaker-0: No, we had everything lined up. We knew that there was going to be additional costs ⁓ that were unexpected. And also from just listening to conversations and trying to do a bit of research, everyone always says save money for interiors, save money for the garden, save money. So we put that money aside and then we put a little bit more aside knowing that there was going to be that big bill right at the end, was, we and all throughout the build. So the build took about 18 months in total. And for the last six months, it was quite tight. However, we wouldn't have done it if we didn't have that extra money. If we were on the cusp, I probably wouldn't have done it just because of we wanted to move in with it almost finished. Because once you move in, was a matter of we wouldn't be doing anything else. So that's what's going to die. Just got to get some battery. And so I just don't.

speaker-1: So yeah, once you move out of the caravan into the house, it's hard to get the motivation to them.

speaker-0: It's hard to get the space in, it's hard to finish it. So we always put that money aside. And even when we moved into the property, then didn't have, we had little, well, hardly any money to do any interiors because the final bits on the outside, all the additional bits like the patio, you you want to change bits of the doors, you want to spend a bit more on a bathroom, you want the nice work top in the kitchen. So it's all these final bits, which definitely were the extra. ⁓ But then everyone just kept saying to us, well, you only do it once, you only do it once. So you could never scrimp and save on things because you only do it once. in terms of the money, the next time. We were okay. But once we moved in, it was a challenge at that point to go, right, we need to stop spending because it does become addictive.

speaker-1: keep improving, keep going up that sort of specification ladder as well. And again, budget wise, did it come in on budget?

speaker-0: We were over about, we were over around about 100,000.

speaker-1: Okay, but it sounds like that was more a choice rather than a getting out of hand or sort of things going wrong, but more of a, again, up-spec in, I'm going to have that top, that top, that window.

speaker-0: Yeah These are all things that we would have, we didn't have to spend that extra. However, when you look at what we budgeted for right at the start, don't save 20, 30,000. You know, you need to be saving around about a hundred thousand spare. And it sounds absolutely ridiculous. But once you start spending on the interiors and the electricals and the plastering, the brits and the slates are the cheapest. the windows are the cheaper bit. Once you get inside, that's when the costs start to increase. So yeah, over budget by a hundred thousand. And like I say, that sounds absolutely mad, but still that was money that we knew that would eventually get spent. So a little over budget.

speaker-1: Yeah, but yes, but we're happy with the end product. So yeah, it worth it. And it's again, it's affordable. It's worth it. Therefore, you can justify it for for that side. So the build itself, you yourself managed it and did that sort of thing. So how did you find that side? Anything surprising once you sort of actually on site, you know, getting the trades together? How did you find that?

speaker-0: So I didn't, so we, when we first did it, we made the decision that we wouldn't do, we wouldn't find suppliers ourselves. We'd renovated a bit in our first property that we had and we learned from experience that people didn't know each other. It was always the blame game. And so we made sacrifices that when we decided to do it, we were always going to spend more money on our build and what we originally pond or they were going to be more expensive than other people. So I used a building company and they sourced different suppliers for us. were like, and they built, but it was a barn conversion specialist. That was the other thing that we selected. wasn't just someone that builds houses. A builder was like, well, I know a plumber. know someone that roofs, slates roofs. It was, ⁓ this is me. Come look around the barns that we were finishing off. Come look at the other barns. Go drive around the area. Look at the barns that we've done. So you know exactly what you're getting. So the company that we use were absolutely incredible. And it's fair to say I'd recommend them to anyone, which I know a lot of people would never recommend Build Us to people because things are not on time. don't get delivered. But honestly, if I was to build again, I'd use them again. But all because of the, I was there when I needed to be there. Conversations happened. They were booked in, you know, it was seven o'clock in the mornings. That's when we'd meet. That's when we'd talk about it. And then in relation to that, if there was any issues in the day, we'd just talk about them the next day because I'd be there first thing the next day before starting work. So selecting tradesmen was something we were like, ⁓ I don't think this is for us. But then, you know, there was some, you know, there was sometimes like the, I'd say to him, well, the electrician's a little bit expensive and he's like, right, okay, well, I do use another electrician as well. So do you want me to see what he can quote? So. It was that communication with the builder that then made everything a lot easier in terms of speaking to people.

speaker-1: Yeah, good people who engage with you and they're also on board with the project and that's something we hear all the time and we push it, whether it's the finance for ourselves, whether it's the builder, whatever type of project you're doing. And again, you see it on the eco side as well. If the builder's not specialized within that certain area or is not on board with your project and you're sort of, what you're trying to do. Yeah. You need someone who buys into the project because it is, like you said, it's a ⁓ It's a big undertaking. It's very much a dream home most of the time. It's that sort of bespoke to you. So therefore you want someone you're going to buy into that dream.

speaker-0: Yeah, and what I also liked was, you know, the suppliers that we worked with, it was always a matter of like getting on the same page as them as well. Even if you sometimes, even if you wanted something, they recommended something else. It was compromised with that decision and almost like they are the experts, you are not the experts. Yes, you want it to look like that, but actually, you know, When it's on a windy night in the middle of November and you you've got the window in the wrong place or you've got the slate shaking on the roof or you know something's not quite right you think well actually they were the experts. So it's all about the compromise of yes I do like it but also finding tradesmen that they're meeting the middle as well is something it is quite hard to find and if you don't get on with the tradesman then you find someone else because there are other people out there doing great stuff so. Even if it takes an extra four weeks or an extra six weeks, in the grand scheme of things, it definitely is worth waiting to get the right person.

speaker-1: Yeah, find someone that fits your project rather than trying to force it in for a little bit of speed or for sake of a couple of weeks, yeah, or a little bit of cost as well. know, sometimes you do get what you pay for and therefore it's worth waiting for that expert in whatever field it is. In terms of phases of the build, was there a particular phase that felt the most intense or difficult or just like the decision, it easy peasy?

speaker-0: So in terms of the decision, it's mad because when people tell me about, I'm renovating my kitchen or I'm getting an extension, they're like, I don't know how you've done it. But it was amazing because there'd be some nights where I come home, because it was always up and down all the time. And there'd be nights I'd come home from work or my husband would come home from work and we wouldn't even look at the house. We'd go, no, we're not looking at that tonight. We're not going to go inside it. And we'd just go into the caravan and it was great. Being on site and having it separately from your life made a huge difference. Because they'd just be like, like I say, the odd day or the day week where you'd feel like nothing was getting done. So that really helped not be living like not on top of each other, not living in it. I'd say when they started the build, there was just so much movement and everything was happening so quick. Once the bricks were going up, once you could see the woodwork, once the slates were going on, you were like, great, I'll be in for Christmas. But we absolutely weren't, of course we weren't. But when they were, I must admit, electrical and plastering was infuriating. You'd walk in and you'd go, just done a few wires and they hadn't. Exactly how it felt. You couldn't see it. And then when there were plastering as well and when it was time, because of the way we've got quite steep ceilings as well, everything needs curvature on all of the areas.

speaker-1: Fuck off.

speaker-0: plastering around the beams and things. Everything took so much time. So to then wait for that to dry, to then go over again, wasn't a matter of plaster one room, right? We'll move on to the next. It's essentially the whole property. So that was the most intense part of it, I'd say.

speaker-1: And then part of this quite valuable sort of listening side of things. No project goes absolutely perfectly. Was there anything sort of decision making wise or any mistakes that you sort of that caused problems or delays or extra costs? And how did you deal with those if there was one in at all?

speaker-0: Yeah, I think it was more liaising with, so once it had been plastered and then trying to get the kitchen fitters and the bathroom fitters in and the plumbers and things like that, that was the quite challenging trying to get that done. I feel like we rushed in making, the kitchen's amazing, the kitchen's brilliant, because that is something we always got told we should do right from the start, get excited about your kitchen. Whereas we've got three bathrooms in the property and all three of them I don't love them. And I think that's because we went with a brand that was cheaper if you bought two of everything. ⁓ And I, know, if we change, if we change it, which we wouldn't now, it'd be too expensive to change two bathrooms and downstairs is downstairs is a different brand. And I am, I do like the one downstairs. I don't love it, but I like it. Whereas the two upstairs, the vanity units are too big for the en suites. the bath isn't in the right position, things like that. I definitely take the time in choosing bathrooms. So that's one thing I do wish that I'd done a bit better, I think, because when you get to that point, it's not only that you liaison with the builders, you then trying to get the stuff to go in the property. So it almost becomes two different projects because the plumber comes in and is like, right, where's the bathroom parts? And you're thinking, what? What? And then that is is onus on you. That is your it's like, are they not here? Whereas before when they were ordering materials like electrical wires and copper pipes for the bathroom, that isn't on you. That's their decision. So it's just a matter of the bathrooms and the kitchen or anything you want fitted into the property, even wardrobes, choose them early, get excited about them. Don't wait to get really far on in the project. Stressed about it. and then think, right, I just need to buy whatever, I just need to get whatever now. And I feel like that's what happened with the upstairs bathrooms.

speaker-1: Yeah, everything's bespoke. It's your property. It's your dream home. Take the time for every aspect of it because the little things do make a big difference. And if someone's mid-build at the moment, feeling stressed, what would be your bit of advice to them?

speaker-0: Just keep riding the waves. Yeah, keep going because there's no once you slow down, the build slows down and that just drags it out even longer. It's almost just like have a weekend off, forget about it for a couple of days. But when you come back, just get your head into it and you don't stop, especially if you're mid build because once you're halfway, you spend a lot of money already and. If you're then not prepared to then spend that last bit of money, you're not going to get what you want. So just put the pressure on yourself to then reap the rewards afterwards.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's an amazing bit of advice and keep going, hold fast, it will be.

speaker-0: it. It will be worth it. When it's done you can then look back and go ⁓ god you remember that time that I'm stressed but I feel like over the course of it even just trying to get electric and water is a test in resilience and overcoming them hurdles can be quite challenging. if you think if you look back at the you know look back on pictures as well so go back to pictures of when you first started the bill and go ⁓ my god I can't believe that's where we were six months ago or 12 months ago and here we are. Just remind yourself of what you've been through to get to mid build already. And then, you you're over the hump, you know, you're on the finishing line route. So just keep going and don't stop.

speaker-1: Perfect. And then bringing it back to the positive side of things. Now, I mean, you've been moving in for a while now, but what feels like the biggest win from the project? What's your favourite part? I think you've said about five or six different favourite parts already, but what's your one big?

speaker-0: It never, when I get up in the morning, I come downstairs, come into the kitchen and I've got like five meters of sliding doors like when you look into the garden and it's just all green. And I just don't really think about it. I open the doors, hear the birds singing, make a coffee, great, great, great, get on with my day. And people still now come round and go, ⁓ my God, I can't believe this is your house. and it's almost imposter syndrome all the time because you're like, what are you talking about? But it's just, it's nice to have those reminders of family and friends coming around and going, I can't believe you've done that. So it's just a nice reminder all the time that when people come around or when someone says something really nice, you're like, you know what, went through, I bloody deserve it because it was so hard to get to this point that it just brings back a nice reminder of actually how

speaker-1: Why you did it, nomen?

speaker-0: this is why we did it. So that's definitely a win. It's just a nice reminder all the time. And that feeling doesn't go away even after three years. Like that feeling is still continuing now, especially for people that don't come all the time. It's just, it's fantastic. ⁓ Another thing is like, if you enjoy cooking or if you enjoy, you know, having 10 minutes of your coffee in the morning of where you like to sit, it's all of those things you've worked towards. or over that time. It's not a matter of right, I've decided to decorate a room and put a little chair in it. It's like you've built that wall, you've painted that wall, you've positioned, you've built everything around that, the position of the coffee table and the chair, which makes it feel almost absolutely amazing when you sit down and have that 10 minutes to reflect and go, right, I've done this. So it's all about the self-reflection that I feel like that makes me feel like I'm still winning when I'm sat here doing it. So.

speaker-1: That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It really is.

speaker-0: the small things that make you go, my gosh, yeah.

speaker-1: is what we did at those moments. It is all worth it. You kept going.

speaker-0: It's all worth it. is. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, and let's finish with a little bit of a quick fire round if that's alright. So first answer that comes to mind for you. So what was the best money you spent on the project?

speaker-0: the Cockatoo.

speaker-1: and where's money spent?

speaker-0: ⁓ the borer hob, which is ⁓ if anyone's ever heard of a borer. if you talk about cars, so people would say Neff is like the BMW. The borer is the Rolls Royce of kitchen hobs. Don't do it. Not worth it.

speaker-1: And what's one thing you would never skip next time if you did skip anything?

speaker-0: Spending time spending more time bathroom shopping and bathroom designing even though it was an absolute ache of going to all the bathroom shops. Making sure everything in those rooms were positioned perfectly. I'd spend more time doing that and the other thing would be is. This I mean it's small detail, but Oscar's in board is only like 6 centimeters high. six centimeters or six inches high and I wish it was eight centimeters and that goes throughout the whole of the property so I wish that I'd done that yeah that was the other thing which is small details. If you're for skirting boards and it's around the whole house then yes that would be the other thing.

speaker-1: full details if you live there Best advice for someone at the start of a build.

speaker-0: Ehm... If you know you want to do it and you know you can achieve it, then do it. Don't let other people tell you you can't do it. Don't let other people put you down when they come around and go, what a mess, I can't believe you're doing it. Because all those small things is like little things that just put you down and bring you down. Because when you're having bad days, you absolutely do have bad days. So the last thing you need to hear at the start of something really exciting is, my God, what is that? I can't believe you're doing it. So if you're at the start of it, you know you can afford it. Definitely look at finances. Definitely think about the people that are gonna be around you in support of need. ⁓ But if it's something you want to do and it's something you know you can do, go for it and don't let other people control your thinking on that.

speaker-1: And the last one is, you got any golden rule? What one golden rule would you give to someone who's looking to undertake a project?

speaker-0: ⁓ a golden rule. I think I've got a golden rule. No, I don't know. don't think I've got no, I don't think just keep going. Yeah, just yeah. If you know you want to do it right from the start and even whether you're a quarter of the way through halfway through or near the end, just keep going because once you've achieved it, that achievement is is your achievement and no one can take that away from you. So yeah, like you say, just keep going.

speaker-1: Kevin. Amazing. Thank you so much. Would you do another self build?

speaker-0: Yeah, I really would. My husband's no, absolutely not. But I think

speaker-1: So we'll get you on next when you've done the next one. Yeah

speaker-0: I because when you're living and breathing it, I lived here, I lived and breathed the ups and the downs. And when we were, you know, even just a small laugh, the small wins, having a coffee in the morning with the builders, those small chats where it was all about the reassurance, that's what made it a win for me. Whereas he went to work and then he came back again and missed almost the in-between bit. So. Yeah, I would do another one and just to live and breathe those experiences because the highs and the lows, that was all part of the journey, being able to see it happening right in front of your eyes.

speaker-1: That's amazing. That's a brilliant place to leave it, think. So Rachel, thank you so much for coming on, being so open. Brilliant, thank you. And shedding a really positive light on self-field, and you love it, obviously. And these conversations do really help people navigate in their own self-world journey. So thank you so much for coming on.

speaker-0: Thanks so much, Jack.