Jack Dougan: Self Builders podcast brought to you by Mayflower Mortgage and Finance. I'm your host Jack Dugan and really grateful for Adrian who has joined me on today and is a self builder and he's come to share his insights into his project. yeah, Adrian over to you. Firstly, could you just start a little bit about yourself, about your project, how it came about and you know, what drove you to do it in the first place? Adrian Emms: Yeah, we brought this property in 2013. To be honest, we brought it never with the intention of building a new house. We've got an old cottage on the property with ⁓ an 80 foot barn on the back of it. And we put ⁓ planning permission in for that because the owner, we brought it off. He tried twice before to get building permission for a new build. and he got refused on both times. So we thought a new build was out of question. So we set about renovating this old cottage and basically we wanted to take this barn down on the back, rebuild it because was basically falling down. And the council says, yeah, you can do that. You'll have to get change of use on that. So we get change of use on that and we got to allow to use. all the square volume of that and then we submitted all the plans to what we wanted to do and it was going to end up being a bit of an upside down house really and because the way the ground was, I was having the bedrooms downstairs and living accommodation upstairs and they come back to us after like a fair wait and this says basically it's 18 % too big, whatever you want and it was on the same footprint really so Anyway, so I guess my scale rule out and how's it look at it like? And I said, right, says 18 % is about six foot six too long. I said, so if I take that off, I can have it. And basically they said, yeah, cause them days they came out to you. And so we take the six foot six off, we resubmit the plans thinking it's like straightforward now. And they come back and they says it's 50 % too big now. And I says, 50 %? I says, Jack Dougan: you Adrian Emms: How can it be? I've reduced it 18%. How can it 50 % too big now? They said, well, I don't know, but it is. if you want to appeal, you can. And that's basically all I got off them. So, and in the meantime, like this plot of land, we've got about seven acres here, cause it was like small holding. And down the bottom of our land, in the same village, they were building a new house and it was like five times bigger than the original. And they were trying to make me shorten my footprint. So. Jack Dougan: Thank So it's a frustration. Adrian Emms: I says, yeah, I'm going to appeal this. Anyway, I get on to the architect and he says, right, he says, ⁓ he says, can't handle appeal. He says, you need a building consultant. says, well, now we're really good. Good one. works part time in the council. So it gets on to her. She comes back to me and she says, I said, I've had a look at this lot. I said, what you want. I said, basically you want to build an extension on your original property down here. And I says, And she says, right. I said, well, because it lies in the green belt. you're only allowed a percentage of an extension on what living accommodation you've got now. So I says, all right. So she says, and basically the 50 % they're offering you, it's still too much. You should only be allowed about 46 % by Marko Quartz. So I says, you're joking. says, it ain't worth doing on the 50%. I said, so basically I've had it then. And this is where the new build come about. Jack Dougan: You Adrian Emms: And she says, no, not really, said, because I said, this might sound a bit mad. I said, but this is the government guidelines and the council just adhering to it. said, ⁓ if you're prepared to pull that old cottage down and pull that barn down, both of them are virtually falling down. She says, you're allowed to build a new build up to five times bigger than the original. And I said, you're joking. And she says, no. I said, right then, my advice to you is to build a new build because it will cost you less money and it will be a lot easier to do. So I put the application in for that and we get that straight away and we'd struggled for 10 years trying to get this old cottage moving along. Then we put the application in get it straight away so like if anybody else is sitting in the green belt pulling the rear out like we was for 10 years. Jack Dougan: you Adrian Emms: get a decent building consultant who knows what they're on about. I don't know whether the planning laws have changed in the green belt, but she certainly helped me. And the funny thing, like all the architects I had over the years when we first brought this place and different planning applications we put in, she never charged me a penny. She never charged me a penny and gave me the best advice. And then once she gave me that advice, I was just like, I was sailing along then. I put the planning application in, we get to that past. Jack Dougan: get the people specialized. See you Adrian Emms: and then we knocked it back a couple of times on the sides, which she said they would do because again it lies in the green belt and it had to sit in, it had to look a certain way, this cottage did. It had to like blend in with the village because it's in a really old village. So basically that's how it come about. So once we got the planning, where's the way then? Jack Dougan: What was the motivation behind the project? Was it to build this sort of dream home because you couldn't find anything else on the market or was it always something you'd be in? Adrian Emms: No, really like, I mean I was, in our last, I've had about five houses and up until I brought this one and I'd always renovated old projects and I'd never ever thought I'd build my own house and then we brought this place because we was looking for somewhere we land really, we'd got a couple of houses, the wife was like ex-farmer's daughter and we was looking really for somewhere we land. and I've got quite a few American trucks and quite a few stuff to store. So I wanted somewhere with a bit of room and this place come up and it just ticked all the boxes really. It was like in a really nice village. It's two miles from the M6 and we can't hear it. So all the travel links were great. It was in the right spot. It was in a really nice village. And it was the worst house in the best place I could afford. So it just ticked all the boxes really. Jack Dougan: Perfect. What route did you take to build? did you use a, like a main contractor or what was your, I know you said it was slightly different. Adrian Emms: No, once we'd gone down the path of a new build, originally my lad was going to do a lot of the building because he'd got his own business at the time. And then we get started on it. We dig the footings out. We like plan it all out and get all the footings sorted. We laser them all out. He helped me do that because he's really good at that. So we laser it all out, get it all nice and square. But I'd always had this idea of going down building with the ICF. I'd looked at timber framed and I didn't really like that. I didn't really like the traditional brick and block. What really drew me to this was the air tightness. I like ⁓ the council and they go on about U values and the R value and all of that. But to me, If the building ain't airtight, you can put like a metre of insulation up in your loft. But if you've got great big air gaps down the side of it, then you're just wasting your money. You know what I mean? So like my eyes, I wanted something that was airtight and the ICF ticked all them boxes. And then with it, the airtightness comes, you're low heating and like it ain't going to cost a lot to heat. Jack Dougan: Yeah. Adrian Emms: And that was the mind draw for me to build out of this product and it's really fast to build with and it's really easy to build with. We had to take a course on it before they sold us the product. But I watched a few... Jack Dougan: So did you have trades on site or have you done it all yourself? You have trades on site or have done it all yourself? Adrian Emms: Pardon? No, I've done it all myself. My lads helped me out a lot. Like if I come to an area or get stuck and originally he was going to brick skin it all because he wanted to put a brick skin around it. And he was going to brick skin the whole lot. And then he took a job and he was a bit worried about it really because he said, I've got this, been offered this job. I said, look, you've got to do what's best for you. I said, you go and take your job. I said, no, I'll sort this. He says, what, you're going to do it yourself? I said, well, I'll have to, and I said, because I'm at the wrong age to borrow a whack amount of money. I said, I'm not comfortable borrowing 150,000. I said, like, and that was my budget to build this. And like, there was a lot of people, they were laughing at me at the start and they were saying like, you're not going to build that for 150 grand. You're going to need like 300 grand. And I says, oh, how? I says, I'll build this for that kind of money. And that's where I am. Jack Dougan: You How long did you originally give for the project? What was your original plan? Adrian Emms: We originally started on two years and we started September, not last September, the one before. by that time the two years comes up, I don't think we're not going to be far off. Like the outside's all done. I'm in the inside now. I'm just doing the first fix. I'm just putting all the insulation up into the rafters and that, trying to get that as airtight as I can. So once I get on... Once I get past that, then I'll be bored and plastering them and putting the floors in downstairs. So it'll come along really quick then. I think I'm past the worst stage, like all the stuff outside and I've been like up against the weather and we brought our own scaffold. So I've been taking scaffold down and putting it back up about a dozen times because we didn't quite have enough. So it's. Jack Dougan: Yeah, so thank you. No. you Adrian Emms: I wouldn't say it's been a learning curve, but it ain't for the faint-hearted. Building a house on your own ain't for the faint-hearted. You've got to look at it like... If you look at the mountain you've got to climb, you'd probably give up at the start. But if you look at it like, if I can just get up to that little bit today, and then tomorrow I can try and get to that little bit. And then if you look at it like stages like that... Jack Dougan: Not to, no, not to it. Feel the hill, you see? more wins. Adrian Emms: I think that's the best way to approach it. If you stand there, it's like Mount Everest, you think, God, I've got to get up there by the end of today, you're going to give up. You know what I mean? So that's how I look at it. And that's like how I looked at it from day one, really. Jack Dougan: What's your, what's your background, Adrian? Are you a builder by trade or have you taught yourself on what during the project? Adrian Emms: Not really. I've always kept my hand in. All the houses I've brought, I've done all them myself and I've took roofs off and I've built an odd extension here and there. And I've done all kind of that. And my uncle had got his own building business and my dad was a plasterer. So I used to help them a lot when I was at school. And then I'll come out. school and I was kind of sick of the building really because every holiday I was helping them. So I come out of school and they wanted me to go into the building and I wanted to go into doing cars and tech and apprenticeship with the engines and that. So I went into doing that but what I didn't do, I didn't let go of the building really, I just kept buying and selling houses and I would buy an old house and then do it up and I'll do it all myself and I would kind of learn hands-on really with it. And then my lad went to college and he took an apprenticeship and he turned into a really good bricklayer and plasterer. And he can build an house really from the ground up, from like from the ground to the roof to plastering to finishing it, putting the kitchen in. He can do it all really. And he can do it to probably a stage a lot better than me. So when I get stuck, I just get to him, you know, and like he comes and helps me. Jack Dougan: You This is a fiction. Adrian Emms: And this is how we've done it really, and this is how we're going to do it for this kind of money. Jack Dougan: Yeah. And is your son coming back to help with any the finishing touches or are you doing all those yourself? Adrian Emms: Yeah, he'll like come back like he'd come down the other day and he had a look because like as you walk into the front of the house, the entrance is the full light of the building. So I think the ceilings there is about 22 foot high from the ground level. And we've got scaffolding up there. I says to him, says, look, shall we board this out while we've got the scaffold here? And initially he said, yeah. And then he come out and had a look and he says, we'll just do it after. So if you start plaster boarding it now. He said before you've got all the insulation in, said, ⁓ that's going to get caked in dust. He said, you're best doing all the plastering together. we can't, that's how we kind of do it really. We kind of look at something and decide we're going to do this and then have a proper look at it and then like say, no, we'll do it this way. Jack Dougan: So on the project itself, what went well? sort of went better than you planned? Just plain sailing from the start. Adrian Emms: All of it really. I when I was doing the ICF right at the start and you put your first couple of rows around and then you bond them down and you get everything really nice and squared out and then you have your concrete pumped. Everybody said, like everything I'd looked at in videos and different things I've read, everybody said, ⁓ that first pour, that's when it can go wrong. And you you pour in like, I don't know. a of hundred, 300, 400 tonne of concrete and it gets up to like eight foot high and you've got all that weight there and if you pour too much in one spot, it's gonna burst the wall. It's only EPS, expanded polystyrene and it was all that. And you're kind of worried really. That was the first major thing. I thought if I can get that right and then I'll be away then. But I tackled it like... I went like belt and braces with it. I went like extra timber over all the outings because like how you creating your outing, you're putting steel in there and then as you pump your concrete in that acts as your lentils. So I'll just belt and brace the job really. I went overkill with everything just to make sure on the poor day everything would go well. And I found a guy on the pump and he was really, really good, this young kid. and he come down like, and I think we wasted about a bucket full, went down the wall. And as we was going around the old girl, like, so, you know, we didn't waste anything. And yeah, that really went well. And then that, once I got up to the first floor, then it spurred me on, I knew then I'll get this same lad back to do the pump again. And it'll just go well. And I say it's gone. Jack Dougan: That's not fun. That's not fun at all. Adrian Emms: And I haven't really looked back and thought, God, I wish I'd done this different or I wish I'd done that different. In my eyes, it's always been do it right once and forget it and move on to the next stage. If you don't get this one stage right, that's going to have, like, that's going to keep coming back and biting you as you're going on. So what you really want to do, you've got to get the foundations right and you've got to get everything right from the word go. Jack Dougan: Yeah. Adrian Emms: Because if you have a hiccup on that one stage and you kind of like ignore it, it'll just come back and bite you as you get further on to it. So that's the only thing I would say really is like I haven't had any hiccups. So I've made sure everything's right as I'm going along. And I look back now and there's nothing I look at that I think, you know what, I wish I'd done this different or I wish I'd done that. I'm just happy with everything the way it's gone. It's hard work and like. Jack Dougan: Look at this. Kevin McLeod wouldn't be keen on you Adrian, he needs more drama that doesn't he Grand Designs, can't have it all plain sailing so nothing, nothing went wrong from that side. Is there anything you do slightly differently at all or anything design wise or planning wise that you change? Adrian Emms: Father? No. No, no, I sat down with it and like my wife like says, I says to her what do want and she's like me really she wanted a traditional looking building that like looks as though it's been here for 50 hundred years. I didn't want a building to look like it's it's brand new. I wanted it a certain way, I wanted it with dormers on the roof, wanted them covered with lead you know and I just wanted it looking old. wanted rise and fall brackets. I wanted to have all the proper cobbling above all the tops and I didn't want any plastic face here and all that kind of thing. And I was allowed to put plastic windows in, but there's no other way you can really go with a windows really. When you're coming down to your air tightness, there's nothing else that you can really have apart from the UPVC on the windows really to get down to the decent air tightness that you need that I'm looking for. So. So yeah, there's nothing I would change really. I just like it, even though it's been hard work and I look at it sometimes. mean, here's another one, like the neighbors, never talked to many of the neighbors, like, and a lot of them there, they'll come past and they know me by name now and they say, like, they're talking to me and they say, I can't believe you built that house all on your own. I says, know. I says, I can't believe it sometimes. Jack Dougan: you Thanks It's an amazing feat. We'll try and put some pictures in, we'll try and put those on the link below so people can see how much you've done. How far are you off finishing time-wise now, think? How long do reckon? Adrian Emms: I I've got till about August to get it done. I don't think I'm gonna be finished then. I would like to think I'm somewhere near for Christmas. But what I do know is once I get boarding it out, it'll move on really fast then. This installation's taken a bit to do because again, I'm using like GAPO tape up in the roof and I don't know if you've ever seen that product but. It's a really like specialist way of sealing your roof. So again, it comes down to your air tightness. So like I've learned that much stuff about the building that I didn't know before. And like our values and your values, they just like went straight past over my head before. But now I know and like heat pumps and all that lot like, and it's, it's amazing really, but it's, it's, it's good. Jack Dougan: Thank you. Thank Now you're an eco build expert now. Bill, your analysis is going pretty well. And in terms of, again, sort of cost and saving to build, budget to start, all on track. Everything went to plan. You didn't go over anything. Adrian Emms: I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I could probably fill someone in. Here I am! My lad managed to secure me a good trade account at Hours Timber. And basically we said to the guy there, he says, look, I said, I'll buy everything off you. I said, if you can give me a decent account. And he basically turned around and he said, I'll give you the same trade deal that I've been giving you, So basically he gave me his trade deal. So yeah, I brought everything off him really. I brought a little bit of wood off somebody else, I found it a little bit cheaper, but it weren't much. But the bulk of the stuff I brought off them, basically because of the cost it gets it to me. So that's another thing really, if you're going into this the way I've gone it, you really need to secure a good tried account. Jack Dougan: Yeah. Yeah, try and keep costs in check. Adrian Emms: Because that's where it can really run away from you. But cost-wise, I think to date I've spent around about £87,000 getting it to this stage. And a lot of people look at it and, you know, I can't believe you spent that. I said, well, yeah, but I have done it all myself. I said, my brother's helped me quite a bit. He comes over once or twice a month and he gives me a hand. And my dad helps me here and there. Jack Dougan: But yeah. Adrian Emms: But that's all the help I've had. The bulk of it, it's me, I'm out there eight in the morning until five, six o'clock. and you just keep on plugging away with it. Jack Dougan: And there's really sort of like top tips that you'd give to anyone doing your type of project. know, eco-centred and doing it yourself. What's the sort of the key? Adrian Emms: If you're gonna do that, you... All you need to do is you need to turn your hands to mouse things. Otherwise, once you start getting somebody else and it's going to start running away with the cost. But the other thing is, is you need to be organized really. Like you got to think like, what am I doing tomorrow? What am I doing the next day? What am I doing the day after that? Have I got four inch screws for this? Have I got so and so for that? Have I got this for that? So you've got to make sure you've got everything that you need. Because if you start ordering stuff, consume like, if you're ordering it, you need to be ordering it a week before you need it to make sure you've got it to do that job. And that's where I'm not like, come in at night time and I think like, what am I doing tomorrow? What am I doing the next day? What am I doing the next day? Have I got this? Have I got that? Have I got that? I'll just make sure I've got everything. So that's the only thing you need to do is organize yourself. Jack Dougan: Keep the momentum going, keep the project going, keep it moving forward. Adrian Emms: Yeah, well it spurs you on really. mean like you get other people talking to you and then you look back and you see what you've done and it's everything really. I mean I built the porch on the front, mortise and tinned all the joints out on the oak. We've done it all really. There's nothing. We had the guy to do the pump, the pump the concrete and that's all we've had so far and I'm on the first fix now. I'm just putting the insulation in so. all the rest of it which is like boarding and it's just like normal. And I'm on the inside as well really so the weather can't stop me now. Like a couple of months ago I was out there finishing the brick work off and you've got all that rain we've had and I'm trying to tie plastic sheets onto the scaffold to try and keep dry and trying to keep all the bricks and everything dry because they don't know the mortar running down the wall. So like now all that's behind me and I'm on the inside so the weather can do what it wants now so I can just crack on. Jack Dougan: That's amazing. And where have you been living during the build? you been renting or have you been on site? Where have you been living? Adrian Emms: No, when we brought this place, we started off, like I said, we were going to renovate that cottage there and then we moved a static caravan onto the site and that lasted about 18 months and that was killing us really. was like, I remember the one night, like it weren't particularly cold, but like I moved on the pillar and it was that cold, it woke me up and I just thought, do you know what? Jack Dougan: Hahaha Adrian Emms: I'm too old to be doing this. And I just thought, I wonder if I could build a log cabin. So I go straight onto the council next morning, looks on the website, looks on the council's planning portal. And I could build a log cabin under 30 square meters without any planning permission. And I needed building racks to sleep in it. So I'll just get some building racks sorted. within three months, I'll put that up and we were living in that. Jack Dougan: Yeah. Adrian Emms: So luckily enough, we've been living in this log cabin, but it's only about, well it's 30 square meters, so it's not massive. But luckily there's only me and the wife, so if you fall out, you soon get to make up in a small space. Jack Dougan: Or you're going to do post-completion to keep it on site for like an hour next or are you going to do a now? Adrian Emms: No, it's like, well, it's funny, it's really because it lies in the, because this property lies in the green belt. In order to like get the planning passed, we have to agree to take the cottage down when it's finished and we've got to remove this log cabin. So that's fair enough. If that's what it means, so we can get the building passed on that, then that's fair enough. And we will adhere to that. Jack Dougan: Would you ever do it again? Would you do another project after this or are you done now? Adrian Emms: There's quite a few people have asked me that and I would build an ICF house again. Whether I'd build it for myself, I don't know because I think I'm like I'm 60 now and I think I'm a bit too old to be climbing roofs. And when you get to 60 years and you start getting up in the morning when you've been on this building game for the last 12 months, you start to feel it. So. Jack Dougan: You Adrian Emms: I've still got a hell of a lot of work to do on this property. Like I've got to the old cottage down and I've got to build walls and different things. as far as we go, I think we'll be happy enough with where we are. But if somebody comes to me and they want a nice CFS building, I'll definitely PM that for them. Jack Dougan: Yeah, amazing. And just give a bit more about ⁓ the final project. So how many bedrooms have you got? Adrian Emms: It's 11 meters by 8 meters. works out the walls, with it being ICF and having our brick skin on the outside, it's like the walls are about two foot thick. So it's a bit like a castle really. We've got three bedrooms, but our bedroom is about 26 foot long. My lad says, don't work in feet and inches, work in meters. I can't think about 20 foot. Jack Dougan: Hahaha Adrian Emms: 26 foot long is it meters? I'm just trying to think. Yeah, so our bedrooms massive really. We could have turned it into a four, but it ended up the fourth bedroom being a bit small. But it works out, I think we're about 190 square meters in total volume internal. So it's plenty big enough really. Jack Dougan: enough. Amazing, well thank you so much for coming on and sharing your little bit about your build and yeah hopefully it'll inspire inspire people to build themselves. yeah, cheers Adrian, thank you very much. Adrian Emms: That's the one, That's good. All right.