Mayflower Mortgage: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Self Builders podcast brought to you by Mayflower Mortgages, the show where we break down everything you need to know about self-build, custom build, and development finance. I'm your host, Jack Dugan, and today's episode is about unlocking land potential and delivering high-quality bespoke homes. And I'm happy to say I'm joined by the team at Greenlee Development. So, Adrian and Mike, ⁓ a West Midlands-based developer focused on sort of identifying opportunities, securing the planning and delivering. beautifully designed homes for you know you to take on and start your self build journey with. So we're talking about how they approach land, what they're doing at the moment and why custom build is is gaining momentum in the market and and what makes their model a little bit different to everybody else. So thank you for coming on, both of you and yeah, if you'd both like to introduce yourselves and start with a journey, what led to the creation of of Greenley? Adrian: Thank you. MIke Gommersall: You start. Adrian: On to you Mike, you're going to start. MIke Gommersall: Yeah, no problem. ⁓ so Mike Gumsall, ⁓ commercial director at ⁓ Greening Developments. ⁓ you wanna introduce yourself there, Adrian? Adrian: Yeah, I'm Adrian Aranda. I'm planning and design director at Greenlee. ⁓ And I can give you a bit of an overview of Greenlee, who we are. ⁓ We founded Greenlee around three, four years ago. ⁓ and I, my background is in architecture. I'm an architect by trade. I'm a registered architect. I was working in ⁓ practice, in studios, working for clients, working for... residential developers, et cetera. And I always wanted to work on Resy and do something myself at some point. ⁓ And then we met, ⁓ Mike and I, met a few years ago and he has obviously, well, he would talk about his experience, but it felt like a really good ⁓ compliment to each other. And we decided to, you know, just to found a small developer company, starting really from kind of nowhere and step by step kind of. to guess where we are now, but we can talk about that a bit later. Mayflower Mortgage: about your side, how did you ⁓ what's your background? MIke Gommersall: Yeah, just to ⁓ yeah, just to so exengineer. tends to be quite a few of us around the ⁓ the self-custom build space, you know, all mad enough to go ahead and ⁓ enter the space, you know. Got a process in our mind and think it'll be easy enough to sort to follow. But yeah. ⁓ so yeah, so I I've met quite a few engineers in the ⁓ in this space to be honest. ⁓ so as an ex engineer, ⁓ I've always been involved in property from a very young age. my dad was always a, you know, buy a house Flip it over, you know, we live in the the chaos for a couple of years. God knows what. Sell it on, do it all over again. So yeah, it's no rest, no peace, why not? ⁓ so yeah, I've been involved in this space quite bit. ⁓ managed to take on my own house at a young age, I think I was nineteen. ⁓ at the end did the same thing. Started flipping ⁓ living flips, as you call them, I think they are. ⁓ took on a second property, started doing that, getting more heavily involved in property development, I'd like to say, rather than flips as such. ⁓ and then yeah, you know, me and Adrian are complete yin and yang. So, you know, I'm very much ⁓ hands on dealing with the aspect of ⁓ the construction side of things that Adrian is ⁓ pre construction planning, understands the process of getting us to there. So we compliment yourself really, really well. You know, ⁓ he's got his gems, I've got mine. We put us two together and we essentially had an almost unbreakable force. ⁓ And we're both very passionate about what we do. So we sort of said, Yeah, you know what? We can we can do this, you know. We were we're we're exactly the same sort of path, exactly the same position. We wanted we knew exactly what we wanted. We're both desperate for that, you know, that beautiful self built home one day in our lifetimes, you know. I don't know when that'll be. We'll be able to no one else is really foreseeable, but you know. ⁓ so yeah, so you know, we had this vision, ⁓ and that's taken off really. That screwed some legs and flew away with us. So Adrian: Thanks. MIke Gommersall: Yeah, that that's sort of the you know, the the works of Greenlee developments ⁓ and and soon to be Greenlee homes as such. Mayflower Mortgage: Amazing. And you specialise in sourcing the land, obviously ages your side, navigating the planning and then moving to you might to create those developments and maximise the the value of the site. So you work a w you work across like a range of sites at the moment, from sort of gardens to to large parcels of land. Can you talk us through a little bit more about that, sort of what you've got what you've done in the past and what you've got sort of coming up at the moment? Adrian: ⁓ When we started trying to find our first project, let's say let's find a first project that we're to start working on. And from my previous experience in practice, I got some good experience in navigating the planning process, also the design aspect as well ⁓ and whatnot. So I was kind of a bit knowledgeable to that to some extent. And that allowed us to kind of target some sites off market completely, know, completely speculatively. And we found our first site, which is the one I have behind me, which is our first site custom build site. And then it all developed from there really. I mean, we were on a really low budget to start with. So we couldn't, you know, we couldn't afford an architect. So we had to do it in house, for example. So we took... control of the designs, control of the product that we wanted to deliver and build and sell at the end, which was quite nice because we had that experience between Mike and myself. We were able to develop those designs to be in keeping with the area, to be completely tailored and bespoke to the site itself, et cetera. ⁓ So yeah, was a lengthy process. Planning took us a couple of years at least because of the nature of the self-custom build. you have to outline first, then have to do your RMs, your research matters. So it's a slightly longer process that you would do on an open market side, but it gives you more opportunities in terms of once you got the outline, you're going to start engaging with the customers and all of that. But we can talk about that maybe a bit later. And then after, obviously, we learned a lot about the self-custom-build world. We joined NAXPA as well. We went to the Unreal conference, made a really good colleagues there. And then from there we have now ⁓ targeted another site to start creating a pipeline in the area because once you have your delivery team, once you have your power team, you want to focus in an area. So we are focused on Worcestershire rural at the moment. We're not going to another council and we're trying to develop our own brand or our own mark, if that makes sense, in the area really. Mayflower Mortgage: Yep. I mean that that transpires to sort of individual cell builders as well, like once they've got that team and they've got those trusted trades. So I suppose for you guys it's just scaled up. Once you've got that that trusted team of of people coming in to do the projects, you wanna keep it within a certain area until you till you go national and blow the doors off. Adrian: It was quite challenging at the beginning being a first-time developer, know, a small company, you don't have that track record, so you were facing all sorts of challenges from finance to planning everything, you know, the team around you is very important, the consultants you have around you for planning, first one is very important, and then once you have the planning, it's a new set of hurdles and challenges with the build as well. Let's allow marketing, which is for self-custom-build. It's its own world and you will find that let's say, state agents or normal state agents, they really understand the self-custom-build. So we've learned a lot about the self-custom-build world and because we wanted to become a developer, it was an opportunity for us to develop a product, a custom-build product. So that's why we did like a custom-build development that we could market a few... dwelling types, but still flexible enough where we can actually, the owner has ⁓ primary design input, but we're giving them, let's say, limited choice in terms of layouts, they have different options in terms of internal spec, in terms of facing materials. So we developed the design code as well for the site that was pre-approved by the planners as well. we did all of that and it worked quite well when we hit the market and it got to basically to sales. It was difficult because being a new young company trying to sell an empty plot of you face some challenges there. But we managed to fully sell all of the plots and not quite apart so that we're still wrapping up the whole development and has a big impact on the delivery of the different dwellings. Because ⁓ one of the challenges when it comes to marketing, especially larger custom-built sites, if your sales are not going through, you will have some customers that move in at the beginning that will be living in a construction site for long. But I think we've tried to minimize that on our site quite well. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah. Bring bringing it back to sort of that custom build for listeners who haven't haven't listened to sort of previous episodes or are sort of new to that custom build thing, just to explain what it is. Because custom builds almost like a stopgap between spade in hand yourself, building your own house and buying, you know, a home from a a national health builder where you get a tailored home because you get those choices in terms of variations on design. But with an experienced developer like yourselves managing the process and putting the sort of the the groundworks, the foundations in. Give us give us your sort of model from your custom build, what what you do, how much you sort of get involved and how much the client's got, you know, scope to change. MIke Gommersall: Yeah, so maybe I can take this one over. So so there's a scale. ⁓ with anything between self build, which like you've said, ⁓ self build, ⁓ a client can go out and buy a piece of land, go out for the whole planning process, gain the planning, you know, go through the the the plans, their their dream home, ⁓ acquire planning, which again is a challenge in itself. That's probably one of the hardest parts to be honest, as we all know that's ⁓ the the the planning system isn't exactly user friendly. I think the ⁓ So yeah, so you know, you're you're fortunate enough to game planning, which is an absolute ⁓ triumph in itself. ⁓ and then and then you've essentially got this great opportunity, but what do you do with it? So then you've got then you've got to go out to tender, maybe you'd be doing some work yourself. ⁓ again, true, true self builders, you know, they sort of might ⁓ push out the civils and then before you know it mm five o'clock on a Monday afternoon you're putting some bricks together and trying to knock off a timber frame and God knows what. ⁓ Mayflower Mortgage: Polite that's a polite way of ⁓ Adrian: Thanks. MIke Gommersall: And then obviously you've got the other spectrum where the these houses are already produced. ⁓ large volume builders have got let's say four hundred houses and you're sort of going, Well, I'll have that house please. ⁓ and the extras are very, very minimal. You know, you could have black handles or white handles and that's kind of really all you've got. and we like to put ourselves right, you know, on a scale, if you've got self build and you've got the finish, we're nowhere near the finished product. We're ⁓ essentially a turnkey solution. Adrian: Thanks. essentially a turned key solution for the 7-hours. Essentially the best way to explain it is to buy it in colour. So you would consider... MIke Gommersall: to the self builders. So that's what we'd probably acquire ourselves to. So essentially the the best way to explain is ⁓ you're buying a car, I think. So you walk into B and W Mercedes or whatever it may be, and you go in there and you say, right, I want a car. Okay, fantastic. Or do you want the the little two seater or do you want a full seven seater? You know, we've got availability across the range. And then you've got, you know, from there you've got your your spec. So do you want a complete box standard spec? Adrian: Yeah. ⁓ You MIke Gommersall: ⁓ or do you want the all singing all dancing? And then again you start getting to the granular levels. So Adrian mentioned, you know, we have we have our plots available. So you know, you can pick between plots Peach Divise for I would say, between plots one to four. So we select the plot, and then from there we have house types that then are available for ⁓ head a said said plot. And then from there then we've got ⁓ the choice of brick, ⁓ the choice of render colour, ⁓ the choice of wood. And then we go into more details of you know the the actual internal layout, how would you like your your rooms laid out? Do you want a bigger kitchen, bigger dining room, do you need a downstairs toilet? Do you need ⁓ facilities for a walk in shower, whatever it might be, a wet room and such? ⁓ and we go through all that granular detail all the way to the very end where what colour paint we put in here. You know, the door handles, are they ⁓ stainless? Are they matte black? You know, we've we've got everything covered. Adrian: you. stainless. MIke Gommersall: So essentially what we are is a turnkey solution for a customer who wants to build our own home, doesn't have the time or potentially the the knowledge to do so. And we're essentially offering that whole package. ⁓ and you know, we're all busy people at this day and age. And to be in such a fortunate position, it's exactly what people are looking for. So we've sort of looked at the market and understood what what what is currently required and said, right, we can fill that void. Adrian: It's important. We'll potentially do something. We have essentially a three-way connection. That's, you know, the reason why we're doing this. It's a way to show people that excited. So, thanks. MIke Gommersall: And to be honest, it's been an absolute success for Peachley. And we've got a lot of self builders that come up to site, obviously they've looked online, they've seen these potential plots available, obviously not available, and asking lots of questions. So yeah, so we you know, we we can we can see a market, we really can. ⁓ and I think there's a a lot people that maybe don't understand custom build yet, that are still going to see it. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah. Adrian: So to expand on what Mike said, so once we engage with the customers, we did design workshops with them to understand their requirements. How many bedrooms do you want the living room to be at the back, at the front? You we developed the different layout options with them to understand how they want to live this dwelling, which is going to be their home. And then, you know, from layout options to facing materials to... choice of colors all the way down to the handle like Mike was saying. We developed this whole model where they can pick and choose through the whole process. And that's the fun part, really, where as a self-builder, you are actually building your own home, but you are doing it through an enabler, it would be us, through a third party. So you get the fun bits, you get the choosing and the picking where you want to see, but none of the hassle of being on site. dealing with trades, dealing with side issues, which is a huge saving, I think, for them. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah. Yeah, client client gets that flexibility, don't they? Yeah. Client gets that flexibility, but you handle everything from the planning, the site servicing, the delivery. They get the input into the layout, they get their input into the finishes, but it's it's controlled and you take a lot of the heavy lifting from the client, which would all be on their shoulders if they were doing a sort of purest sense of the world. MIke Gommersall: Yeah, it right has less. Yeah. Another another another big aspect as well is that this is a fixed price offer. So essentially you're paying a fixed price for this product. And i in in our case we do quite high end luxury finish and bungalows are hugely, hugely successful in this area. Mayflower Mortgage: Yes. MIke Gommersall: ⁓ so they know what they're paying and the products that's offered are of good standard, they're you know high standard. ⁓ but of course if you want to go gold plated on your taps and what have you, that's absolutely perfect fine. But obviously there's a premium to that. So again, you know, you can keep it quite simple, stick with the program we have, or if you want to go completely off piste, we've covered that area as well. ⁓ and there's just additional cost to that. But again, it's it's we all know when you do a cell field, you've got this budget and before you finished it you go, Well, it didn't work out to plan, did it? Adrian: Yeah. MIke Gommersall: And you've got this deficit of God knows what the mornings are through the room and Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mayflower Mortgage: Well that's that's where we come in, I suppose, for the the finance side. So and that's why we, you know, we like we like working closely with Greenley, ⁓ you know, ourselves. We know that anything you put together, your fixed price costing is accurate as well. It helps us in terms of sourcing any finance that the clients need. And the lenders, again, if you've got that sort of surety in in cost and price, helps the client, helps us, helps a lender and provides us with, you know, all the information we need to Adrian: Right. Mayflower Mortgage: put that funding in place. ⁓ from from the company itself though, I know it's it's not just that custom build it, you sort of build it on a little bit more on sort of values. So could you just give me a bit more on that? So from working with your landowners and delivering the projects, like what underpins what you do? Adrian: So, could you just give me a bit more on that so we can work together on this project. MIke Gommersall: So I I don't mind answering this question. So we we work heavily on w so to put put yourself in the shoes of a customer, Adrian: Thank MIke Gommersall: We meet we meet our ⁓ our our potential clients, ⁓ prospective clients on site ourselves. So we think it's really important that you know we're meeting these guys as well as they're meeting us. They need to understand who they're buying from. And at the end of the day, that stops with us. if you're buying a custom build, essentially you've been walking onto a field and go, Right, this over here is plot one, this over here is plot two. It takes a lot of vision for someone to understand what they're buying into. It's a big thing, you know, you're not just buying a house, you're buying a vision. Adrian: Thanks. MIke Gommersall: ⁓ so we we are very hands on from day one. So we're there from the very first meeting. ⁓ then we move into the workshops, which Adrian is very much leads on, ⁓ and starts to create that vision. And then once we understand their wants and needs, the the the sort of passion for what they need in this house, we put that together and that's kind of the offering really. What can we do for you? ⁓ and then from there, you know, it it's all about integrity about how we can offer and how we can serve the customer. Adrian: soon. MIke Gommersall: ⁓ it's really important to us to make sure that we take the full picture and at the end of the product and we've got, you know, finished doing ⁓ customers now, you know, in ⁓ moved into their properties. Everything they've they've envisioned at the beginning we've managed to make come true. And it's it's a working relationship, you know, you get to know these guys as almost friends really, honestly. and and it's life changing for a lot of people as well. Adrian: Thank MIke Gommersall: Because these might be there might be needs for them to move into maybe a ground story property or ⁓ there's there's wet rooms because there's certain accessibility issues and things like that. So these are it's not just ⁓ it's not just a a purchase, it's also a life change. So, you know, we we heavily, heavily push on the fact that, you know, we're there to be almost a partnership with our clients rather than just a, you know, put it together, throw it together and say, right, there's your property, ⁓ see you later sort of thing. So yeah, we're we we're really You know, we we work in small villages as well, so as you as you may well know and and and a lot of people will know, reputation ⁓ for sees you. So we you know, we make sure that what we do, if a prospective client turns up to Peach De Rise Ruggins and knocks on the door, the first thing I'd like for them to say is absolutely fantastic, come and have cup of tea. you don't want to lead by exam you know, you lead by example and it's important that, you know, we're we're leading by example and you know, there's there's a market that wants certain levels of care. Adrian: And just expanding a bit on what Mike was saying, obviously self-custom-build is a spectrum, isn't it? You go from the self-builder to the kid house. And we think we found the sweet spot whereby the customer is a self-builder, but we are developing the product for them. And we are building the house and the home that they want to live in for them. MIke Gommersall: compassion and and obviously support and that's exactly what we offer. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah, I think that that stands you out in the market as well. Adrian: So we are taking all of the hassle, all of that stress off them and we are handling that and managing that. And we think that's sweet spot. And it was quite surprising for us at the beginning, we were trying to understand and comprehend the model. we were delivering and developing our offering that not many enablers or not many developers were doing this out there. There were very, very few parties doing it. And we think there's a market for it and there's a really big opportunity for other people. to do something similar to what we've done here. Or even sell builders that they don't want to go through the hassle and maybe they want to find a partner, like a build partner, a delivery partner, but which is not just your standard builder around the corner, which is an experienced developer that they can deal with utility connections, they can deal with planning issues, et cetera, et cetera. It's not just building a house, putting some bricks together. It goes beyond that, especially with new builds. when you have the utility connections there. If you are demolishing a house, that's different, but if it's a new building and you have the utility connections, your telecoms, all of that, that can delay and cost like tens of thousands of pounds if it's not managed well, things like that. yeah, we were quite surprised that not many people were doing this, and that's something we want to replicate in the future, and we are also taking some of the lessons to kind of apply to our open market schemes as well. Mayflower Mortgage: Yep. No, it's it's a great it's a great overall product and it it tailors to what the client wants. It's not just a tick list of of options that they can they can choose from. We've mentioned Peakly Rise ⁓ a few times on this podcast. So dig into Peakly Rise a little bit. It's one of your one of your sites. Give us the overview of that site, what it is, where it is, how many units, and then what have you got coming up in the future as well. MIke Gommersall: Yeah, of course. So ⁓ you know, ⁓ Peachy Rise is a site of four custom build units. ⁓ that's comprising of three bungalows and a door bungalow. at the very beginning it was ⁓ supported by Mayflower yourselves with the finance, which was absolutely ⁓ fantastic. ⁓ yeah, so this site is ⁓ as I say, four custom build units. These are quite high luxury units. ⁓ we've sold all plots now. We've got Two customers now moved in happily and we've got the other two. We've got a completion on plot two on the 10th of July and then around about two years later completion on plot four. So we're we're right at the back end now, which is fantastic. I mean the picture you can see there with Adrian, the ⁓ the roofs are all on now, we're plastering, we're finalizing on certain aspects, so it's more internal works and we're just starting on the landscaping now. So yeah, really excited and we are absolutely over the moon with the end finish and so far so good. Adrian: It is very close to Worcester town. It's just outside Worcester in a village called Lower Broadheath. ⁓ You can see Marlborough Hills there in the background as well. So the location is outstanding, a small village close to all facilities. It has a new access road, a new access drive, which is a shared drive. It has some green infrastructure as well, which is like some landscaping and planting, ⁓ not allocated to any plot. And then four plots. ⁓ We're very proud and we would welcome anybody that wants to come and have a visit to come round and have a look because we're quite proud of it. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah, we'll we'll put the links in the ⁓ the podcast notes as well and the website and everything so people have a look on. And what have you got what have you got coming up? What's in the pipeline? MIke Gommersall: Yeah, we we've made quite a few cell photos. Adrian: Yes. MIke Gommersall: Go away, I can shoot Adrian. Go for it. Adrian: So at the moment we have, as I said, we wanted to stay in the same area, in the same council. We have just got approval at planning committee for another scheme in the same village for five units, ⁓ which have been designed based on a farmstead layout, like quite vernacular in keeping with the area. So something quite bespoke designs to the area as well. And then at the moment we have another life planning application in a nearby village called The Fort as well, which is three new build units plus a refurb, a kind of similar edge of village site with nice views in a really nice village facilities nearby. So that's kind of the model that following from Pitchley and how well it worked for us in terms of the scale and everything. We wanted to replicate and find new similar sites in terms of the size and the number of units. Mayflower Mortgage: Amazing. And when when do you expect these these to be sort of live on your website, ready to ready to go on open sale? MIke Gommersall: Yeah. Soon. ⁓ so we've just recently got yeah. So we've we've recently got consent on the ⁓ on the homestead. Yeah, no, so we've recently got ⁓ consent on the homestead. So lots of work to do now to to get everything aligned, ⁓ the contractors tenders out, everything ready to roll. ⁓ but yeah, we're hoping to ⁓ we'll get them out quite soon and ⁓ as Adrian says the site in Defford as well is quite close to approval as fingers crossed. Mayflower Mortgage: That's a very v that's a very builder like response to that. Adrian: Hehehehehe MIke Gommersall: ⁓ so again we've got quite a lot coming up. ⁓ and yeah, there's a quite a lot of noise about it. You know, the the the the ⁓ the the local village is aware of what's happening and we're getting quite a lot of ⁓ visits to site at the moment to sort of see what we're doing, see what we're building. so yeah, there's quite a lot of noise about it. We're excited, we really are. ⁓ and it's a beautiful, beautiful scheme that we've got coming up. So again, we sort of take in the aspect of custom build and we wanting to offer very something very similar. So you know, off-plan buy-in essentially and getting people involved from day one so that they can start making those decisions on internal finishes and what have you. So that you know, it's it's that turnkey solution again. You know, you've you've you've got your house. ⁓ we we've not quite gone down the full custom wheel route. We've got the fixed plans on what we've got offering, but again, we've got a range of anything from between ground story bungalows, granaries all the way up to you know a three story farmhouse. So we're covering all aspects on five units again in the courtyard and development. so it's covering all aspects. and obviously then we can engage in customers. We we understand the process quite well now. so we want to bring them on board for that sort of journey to have their personal touch to to their you know it's not just a house, it's a it's a you know for lot of people a forever home. So yeah. Adrian: So, we'll freeze them for a So, that's how we realize this. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah, no, it is exciting. ⁓ and you know, from our side we'll put out details once it's once it's live. But again, anyone listening, contact Mayflower or Greenlee, either way to to register interest. Where's best to sort of contact you directly? And the website, phone, email, where's your Adrian: you or interests, it's best to contact you directly via the website, phone, email or place your name. MIke Gommersall: Yeah, so head out to www.greenleadevelopments.co.uk. That's our main site. we can be accessed there through contact info, mobile, ⁓ email. ⁓ so if people you know want to inquire and understand what we're up to and where we are and and what's coming up available, then more than happy to contact us. ⁓ and then we will be releasing our website on the upcoming sites. Adrian: Thank you. MIke Gommersall: ⁓ in the near future. So as soon as we're aligned and ready, ⁓ and have ⁓ marketing structured and ready, which again, as is as we all know, it's ⁓ a lot of work to follow up on. But again we've we've got the product, we've got the we've got the blueprint, so we'll be we're working hard in the background to make that already. But right now we just need to make sure our condition's released ⁓ the boys are ready, the spades are out and we're ⁓ good to go. Watch this space, I think that's the word, you know. Adrian: Thanks for Mayflower Mortgage: Watch this space. That's the ⁓ watch this space. ⁓ then before we sort of leave, just sort of want to go through a bit more advice for clients. So if clients are looking for this type of project, so one where they can, you know, follow that custom build model, you do all the hard work or sort of the ⁓ heavy lifting, but they do get that input. If you've got any advice for clients looking to do that, what should they be thinking about before they contact you or you know, what do they need to sort of get lined up ready? Adrian: Hehehe I think it's quite an open question and there so many factors to the whole process, isn't it? For example, is it just one single self builder looking to that they just bought an old bungalow so they already have all of the utility connections in place and they're just demolishing and erecting a two-story house, for example? That would be much easier than doing a new, a fresh new build where you have the new utilities. Planning as well is a huge question mark. Where are you in your planning journey? Do you have outline? Or, and you just need the RM application or you don't even have outline? And also is it just one unit or is it a multi-plot site? And this is a, I don't know, Maybe a landowner that has a site and he wants to engage with a developer like us, like a delivery partner, we could manage the whole process for them. Like I said, planning, marketing, finance, know, servicing the plots. And then those plots, they don't have to be sold as custom-built plots. They could be sold as self-built plots, already serviced. But somebody has to service the plots. Somebody has to manage all of the utilities, all of the drainage, all of the sewers, all of that infrastructure, isn't it? engage with the consultants, the design team, the civil engineers, etc. etc. It's like a lot. So it depends on what the plot is. Is it just one self-builder looking to demolish and build their own house, or is it just a multi-plot site where we engage with the landowner? Or maybe it's a developer that they have just come across a site where maybe they're being challenged in getting planning for an open market, but custom-building is an opportunity and they want to explore the option. We'll be happy to support them in any way as well, offering them advice from our experience, lessons learned. Mayflower Mortgage: Amazing. And does the client need anything before they give you a ring? Do they need anything at all? Or is it just give get in contact? You'll take it from there and ⁓ point them in the right direction. MIke Gommersall: I mean, get in contact, honestly, you you never know, we always say you never know who you're speaking to. So you always have the conversation. if people looking for advice, you know, we we live and breathe property. We really do. So, you know, we're always open to discussion, discussing different points. Even sometimes, you know, w even just having a moan g it can help sometimes, can't it? You know, like ⁓ bloody Yeah, yeah, we've we've got stories all about that. But but no, yeah, but yeah, no, get in touch. Adrian: Hehehehe MIke Gommersall: Tell us what you're where you are, what you're doing, and what you're looking for, because we may well have an opportunity or a development that's coming through that may fit requirements, ⁓ or or even access to to potential plots that may not work for us, but may work for ⁓ someone else, you know. Everyone has their own requirements, so it's really difficult. But following up to what Adrian said about advice, I think depending on where you are on a journey and if you are a self-builder, I think the biggest question and the biggest point penny to ⁓ factor in is is due diligence, you know, due diligence all day long. You know, from from the very beginning ⁓ from the very beginning, you know, when you're when you're looking into purchasing land, making sure there's no, you know, huge red flags, make sure you've got the right A team around you. It really is from a construction point of view, this is absolutely critical. So if you are going to take that journey on, just make sure that you've got someone that's ⁓ rinse and repeated and proven to be able to deliver because It it's not as easy as people saying and we've all seen grand designs and we've all seen, you know, the pains and the you know, ⁓ it's a million pound extra. Try us to marty. It's real, it's true, it really does. And sometimes it's glorified, but it g it can be tough. So, you know, make sure that when you're making these decisions you're making them with an open mind because yeah, it's important. Adrian: Hmm. For example, planning, which is a bit of my area of expertise, as you know, true self-custom build is CIL exempt. But you need that side to do your planning consent. You will get planning for an erection of a new dwelling house without actually being a proper self-custom build. And if you are expanding on the gross interior area, CIL won't be exempt. And that can be a nasty surprise at the end, know, 10, 20, 30k easily. So it's all of these things that you need to preempt at the beginning and know the whole journey and have sight of the whole process before you even start doing anything with the site. And every site is different. Every landowner is different. Every person's aspirations or what they want to do is different. So I think, you know, even if they want to build their own self-built house, getting advice from somebody who's experienced and have done it before. even if I think it would be probably beneficial, probably saving them the CIL by getting the proper planning permission in place. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah, and we we see it time and time again that engage the professionals earlier on, rely on the people who have the expertise in the areas that you're looking at, whether it's finance and ourselves, yourselves for the the planning, the building. Keep keep those people sort of close. Keep the professionals and do let them do what they do best rather than ⁓ you know, maybe going half half cocked, doing it trying to do it yourself, it'll end up costing you money or making decisions at the start. early with confidence rather than sort of knocking them down the line and when it can and it can cause problems. ⁓ so is there anything else you guys wanna talk about? MIke Gommersall: Well God, I mean where do you start this thing? How long have we got? No, no, no. Honestly. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I mean i I mean I suppose the question is, is there anything that you'd want to take from us, any questions you've got in regards to our journey today? I mean, is there anything that you'd you'd like if you've got any questions on how we've navigated through ⁓ X, Y, and Z and you know, th the problems that or maybe there's there's issues or things that we'd we'd recommend or I don't know, really. Adrian: Yeah. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah, I can I can yeah, we can touch on that one, so go on that one. ⁓ MIke Gommersall: Yeah, feel feel free to fireway, chat. You've got us, you know, we've we've got our war worms. Don't worry about that. Mayflower Mortgage: So yeah, that's it. Adrian: Hehehehehe Mayflower Mortgage: Okay. So you guys being ⁓ again, developers on the on the call, so when clients come to you, what problems do you see arising throughout a project? Ones that you're you're dealing with, is there anything that that pops up time and time again or is it every project's different? MIke Gommersall: I th I th I think every project's different, but you know the reason we do what we do is we we're obviously selling the product. but our product is flexible. So we take the time and we have ⁓ an initial meeting, you know, we we meet on site obviously we need to they need to see the product, see the land, see see what's what's available. ⁓ and and if that's you know, the initial meeting is positive and they're that they're interested, we generally you know sit down and go to the office. And at that point there, we're almost I wouldn't say interviewing, but we're sort of questioning what they want, what their motives are, so that we can find out what we can do for them. Because it might mean that, you know, ⁓ this particular customer wants ⁓ a a pink castle building at X, Y, and Z. It might not be something we can say. You know, I d ⁓ we don't know. So we we really start to go down into the nitty gritty of what exactly do you need? What is What is it that's driving you for this decision? It's lifestyle, is it this is you know, d might it might be medical conditions, ⁓ we have to move because of X, Y, and Z. you know, it might you might find that someone's ⁓ accessibility issues, but they absolutely hell bent on a two story house. Well, that's something we can facilitate, you know. We we we tend to go to a lot of different shows and whenever we try to keep up to date with the current, you know. Adrian: Thanks. Thank MIke Gommersall: build methods and and products available and there's some fantastic products for you know accessibility you know like you know internal lifts and all sorts ⁓ which are a lot more accessible than people think so we we sort of we know the market we know what's available ⁓ we're if you want to call it you know the the product ex the product experts in this in this space ⁓ so we sort of it like you know we almost interrogate you know in a nice about way but understand what it is that you want Adrian: Thanks. MIke Gommersall: to ensure that the product we offer and the and the journey we offer is as smooth as possible. ⁓ because like I said, if you want a pink castle with forts at the front and a drawbridge, it's just not going to be viable for us. But if you want a you know well built, high, high level quality house to to match your lifestyle, then that's definitely something we can we can support with. Mayflower Mortgage: No no amount of information's too much information from the client side for you. If they the more they give you, the better you can design their home. MIke Gommersall: Dream. Absolute dream. Yeah. Absolute dream. Adrian: I think expanding on what Mike said, one of the biggest lessons for us from the custom-build side is that early engagement that we would like to replicate on open market schemes. Because having an early engagement, i.e. early ⁓ marketing and launching when you are still building but you still have enough time to make decisions and change several things. from load-bearing partitions to other aspects of the layout without affecting planning or things like that. So having an interaction with the clients has been very fruitful for us. We've learned a lot. We've received some positive feedback and all sorts of feedback, which has improved our product for the next projects. And that's something we want to replicate on the next schemes. We don't want to build something for a standard occupier or resident or customer. And then they will find, ⁓ no, that's not where I want my light switch. That's not the kind of kitchen layout that I want. I could do ⁓ with a shower, right, and a bath, or I don't know, level threshold, bifold doors, or things like that, which we put anyways. But yeah, I think that early interaction offering that range of choice at the outside and having them on board is something we to definitely replicate which is challenging because you need to allocate time for clients ⁓ and sometimes, I guess, you have other priorities, if know what I mean. But I think it pays off in the long term and they are more involved throughout the process and I think ⁓ overall happier with the product that we are delivering. We are also building that relationship with them, like Mike said, that we would like to have once they've moved in. and if we knock on their door they will invite us in for a tea or something. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah, get that get that personal relationship going and it helps then the Yeah. MIke Gommersall: It's like the VIP treatment essentially, you know, we we offer site visits during the build. ⁓ they come at different stages obviously ⁓ when accessible. ⁓ and they they basically they're a part of the build, but they don't have to lift a finger essentially. ⁓ and then throughout the build ⁓ there's different s ⁓ stages of meetings which we discuss different products. We have all the products available as well. So anything from down from like, you know, the the doors, the tiles Adrian: Yeah. MIke Gommersall: door handles, carpets, paint, you name it. We have all that to hand. ⁓ we like to hand out our products, you know, so the customers can take like, you know, the the carpet samples for argument's sake, you know, take them with you for a few days, you know, see it in the daylight, night light, you know, whatever it is, so you can really feel and touch and get get an understanding for what you're what you're asking for. So, you know, so your decision is solely your decision. It's not us saying, ⁓ you can only have this one or the cream or the white one. It's kinda like that that's the product, you know. ⁓ We spent a long time creating that product as well. So and if they d again, if they want to go off piece and we have a gold carpet, gold carpet it is, but you know, we can facilitate that as well. But yeah, genuinely our product is of high quality that people say, you know what, this would be absolutely fine for us. We're more than happy with what's facilitated here and you know, it's it's a product we know, we trust and we we know we use ourselves personally. Mayflower Mortgage: Amazing. Well, that brings us to the sort of end of today's episode. So a massive thank you for Adrian and Mike, you both coming on ⁓ and discussing Greenlee developments and your sort of insights on the custom build market and what you guys are doing. And if you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe and share with anyone who might find it useful. We will put Greenlee's details, contact details on the link on the podcast. Go and have a look. Have a look at the website, have a look at developments and yeah. Adrian: know have anybody who might like music, maybe. side of the relevance. Mayflower Mortgage: If you if anyone, landowners, developers, self builders, give ⁓ a ring, they'll they're more than happy to impart their wisdom. Yeah. Adrian: self-knowledge. MIke Gommersall: Yep, and and catch some socials as well. The we we do have socials. But I did forget to add it in there. But no, thank you, Jack. Thank you so much for having us and ⁓ it's good to talk. Good to catch up. Adrian: Yeah. Mayflower Mortgage: Yeah. Amazing. I'll see you soon. Adrian: Thank you very much, Jack. Thank you very much to the Mayflower team as well.