Jack Dougan: to you by Mayflower Mortgage and Finance. I'm your host again, Jack Dugan, and I'm very grateful for another pair of self-builders to come on, Jodie and James, to share their story and give you some insights into their project. So welcome, Jodie and James. ⁓ Well, look, we'll go from the start and it's really sort of over to you to sort of, you know, take us through your project. So yeah, if you could start right from the beginning, you know, tell us a bit about your project and overview of yourselves, what you did, and then we'll just go through it from there.

Jody And James: So I started sort of 2020 when we bought a cottage which needed a bit, needed a lot of work, but it wanted a decent amount of land. So we split the land in half and whilst we were going for the planning permission and the sort of hoops that we had to jump through for that, we also renovated the cottage, which turned out to be more of a problem that we realised we had to replace the stairs, we completely ripped out all of the electrics and the plumbing and redid it. We had to move the consumer unit because for some reason it was over the front door. Whilst we were doing the bathroom, we realised that the previous owners had obviously had some sort of a leak and so it ruined the joists on the first floor just underneath the bathroom. instead of replacing them, they got some skirting, screwed it together and put it across. the floor and then put some 18mm ply on so I do sort look back and go I could have died every time I walked in there. It was such a small place, place was so small though that I'd at least have only fallen about seven foot so it wasn't a massive... yeah no it's... I wouldn't have been happy though so there is that side of it.

Jack Dougan: Nice. Not fatal. Sure shouldn't be fatal, but yeah.

Jody And James: I was, and we, ripped everything right back, you we took the plaster off the wall. So it was just like the lathe and then went back around and read. So we were redoing all of that. ⁓ and just as we sort of, we were living without doors in the house, not for about six months, internal doors, weren't just open to the elements. ⁓ I still remember bragging to some friends off, we've got a new front door. doesn't let all the air in now.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, those wins. ⁓

Jody And James: Yeah, yeah, they sort of looked at us and went having a front door is bare minimum for us for a house. You don't always like. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is is the thing. This is before we even did the self build. had all of this. This is the whole everything I'm talking about is whilst we were going for planning permission, and then for some reason, I don't know, I must have been kicked in the head or something.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, welcome to South Philly. So how did you find this plot or this property?

Jody And James: It was just, it was about a mile down the road from us. We were renting a place. So I moved. I mean, that's part of it as well as I'm a commercial manager now, but back then I was a quantity surveyor. So sort of different rungs to the same thing. And we were moved, we'd moved a couple of times for work. So from Plymouth to sort of where we are now. And so we were renting it just happened to come, literally just down the road came up and it was, it was such a massive plot. thought, well, we can, it's also, fact, it's one of the things, was one of the selling points from the estate agent was you can, you can split the land in half and you could, you could sell that and make loads of money. And we sort of went, ⁓ okay, that makes, that makes sense. So, and then once we'd just about finished the cottage and had, we decided to embark on a self build. The originally plan was to sort of like sell the land and we just thought, we've just gone through the pain of doing our own house. I'm sure we know exactly what we're doing with the new build. So we just went, yeah, went to find a couple of places that were sort of lenders money, which is...

Jack Dougan: Yep. ⁓

Jody And James: in hindsight is something I should have looked at more because we didn't come for yourself at that. We were with another company and we just didn't, we should have had a different mortgage. We should have had a different financial arrangement upfront. And that's something we said, looking back, it's probably the first of many mistakes that we made on the process. then, like I said, I don't know what it was. I think we

Jack Dougan: Thank Yep.

Jody And James: I think we were probably on a bit of a high from finishing the cottage. We thought, we can build a house. We've renovated it. at the money that on paper we could have made and ⁓ we could make loads more if we build it ourselves. Then we were the planning committee, like let's do that. And the plan was then to build and sell the property. But then we started planning the kitchen and I started getting carried away with wine fridges.

Jack Dougan: Yep. very important.

Jody And James: And we thought, yeah, and then we thought, oh, this is nice. I kind of don't want to give this away. I kind of want to live here. So we decided then to change it halfway through the project. Yeah. That we would stay, we would actually live here. Which is where we sort of contacted yourselves and said, well, what do I need to do to move this around? Yeah.

Jack Dougan: flowering. ⁓ and how to structure it. So you renovate the main cottage in the first place. Do you live in the cottage whilst you built the, yeah. How long did the renovation take on the cottage?

Jody And James: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, about 18 months.

Jack Dougan: year and a half. And how long did you plan for the for the self build and how long did it take?

Jody And James: planned about six months. Yeah something like that. nowhere near as much time. mean to be fair it was whilst we were doing this we also decided that having a second child would be a good idea as well so. ⁓ it's just a type of scenario you know just tick all those boxes have another kid why not. Just to go for a global pandemic.

Jack Dougan: Yeah. More stress. Yeah, why not? get all the stress in one go and then yeah.

Jody And James: Yeah, so it was all fun and games. How long did it take in the end? think to build. To build was about I think 10 months, eight months. Yeah. In fact, to be fair, the main build was done in about six months. one of the things that did go well was like all of the big stuff at the start. laying the foundations, getting in the

Jack Dougan: Okay, so.

Jody And James: getting things like the water and the electricity was a bit of a rigmarole but that was more because of my neighbour. a hole in a cocktail. The electricity for the cottage, so there's land in front of the cottage, if you imagine it's sort of a main road and there's land, there's like the cottage and then there's land in front of the cottage and that used to have three bungalows on there since been knocked down and was used for, I think, right... one of our neighbors keeps his sheep in there every now and then or something like that. But it's owned by someone else. Yeah. And so that's where the electricity pole was like in this field. And my neighbor decided that she didn't want it there anymore. And it was that that was the sticking point was was trying to sort out the electricity, but it nearly knackered us because I'm there going, I've got to I'm building a house. Like I thought this electricity. I look I had a price and it was all lined up. with the electric board and that was all fine and suddenly she just sort of went well unless you move the pile I'm not giving you I'm not going to give you access to it and then and yeah and then gave a note basically saying I no longer give you permission to have this on my land you have to move it so it was a proper pain just yeah yeah we had a neighbor at the time who just threw every

Jack Dougan: unforeseen.

Jody And James: objection he possibly could find at the build because he wasn't happy with it. So we had to go through bat surveys and all of the stuff. It all came up absolutely fine and we got the position in the end obviously. We don't think we need an environmental study because it's right, know, it's by a main road. There's no issues. And as wrote to them throwing the kitchen sink at us, go, it's too big. It's not in keeping with the environment. know, all the buzzword points. He also said, I'm surprised there's not a study. I've seen bats flying around. And he was like, there aren't any bats. You're just lying. And so it was just more money to spend on the bats over. He then said, there's no evidence of bats. And I was like, I know, because bats don't like hanging around main roads. ⁓

Jack Dougan: Yep

Jody And James: absolutely infuriating. He's moved now.

Jack Dougan: Is everything okay now with the neighbors all settled? Amazing.

Jody And James: We're all lovely new neighbors now. Yeah, both sets of neighbors are really, really good. That's definitely something to consider. I mean, we did everything right. We went round and spoke to him about it before we put the planning commission in and said, look, this is what we're thinking of doing. Showed him the plans. Let us know if you've got anything, like any mentions, you know. Told him it'll go here and just went, looted for it to go through and then, yeah, complain about everything. Which at least, if we'd have said... One of the objections he said, I remember it's coming through, if you wanted to put a bungalow in there, I wouldn't have had an objection. I remember saying to Jodie, if he'd have said that to the start, I could have at least gone back to the planner and said, look, why don't you stick a bungalow in, see whether you can get that through. We wouldn't have built it because it's not a big enough footprint to have a bungalow that can have four of us in. at least then I probably would have just sold the land. know what mean? would have done...

Jack Dougan: Yes, yeah, could change the end result.

Jody And James: So do think, I do think a part of building it as well was because we were so frustrated with him. I was like, we're going to build it now and you're going to have to look at it.

Jack Dougan: Need some motivation, know, everything else is going on. little bit of anger as well, always helps, throw it in.

Jody And James: Yeah, level of petty spite there maybe.

Jack Dougan: And what route did he take to build it? Did he use like a turnkey solution, main contractor, or did you do it yourselves?

Jody And James: No, because I have worked in construction for such a long time. So it's coming to sort of 12, 13 years now. And I decided to try and do it myself as much as possible. In terms of project management, I wasn't stupid enough to think that I was like, oh, I can get a digger and dig some holes. I wasn't that naive, fortunately. But and to be fair, those are the bits that I said that went well when we were doing the foundation. the sort of planning permission from my neighbor with the electricity aside, but the water and the sewage, all of that, the actual frame of the house, the roof, the windows and doors, all of that, when, I planned it, because I thought, these are the big things, I'm going to focus on the big things. These are the sort of like, the foundations are sort of like 45 grand, the timber frame was 55, you know, so there's 100 grand just in sort of the... in the structure of the building. So I made sure that those were right. And those weren't well, actually. We made good time. It was a month to do the foundations and to put some of the drainage bits and pieces into place. And then it was two weeks and the timber frame was up and solid.

Jack Dougan: much quicker.

Jody And James: had a bit of a roof, if you remember, was a bit of a sticking point because I went to a roofer and said, I want a roof, please. And they said, ⁓ here's, you know, here's the price for a roof. I'm like, great. Thank you very much. And then halfway through, I went, I remember saying, ⁓ what are you doing for sort of, cause it's a flat roof, how flat roof. What are you doing with the water? How are you dipping it? Because, and they went, ⁓ you, do that. I was like, what do you mean I do that? I've asked you to do the roof. Oh yeah, but that's a sub roof. I was like, it's the roof. It's on top of the building. When I asked you to do the roof, I wanted you to do the roof. So there was a little bit of a panic there, but fortunately again, because in an industry, I knew someone and sort of said, look, I'm in a bit of a bind. that's where, and he was actually my kitchen fitter, but he's just a fantastic carpenter. All round. The only thing he said he can't do is like the wetworks, know, like bricking and things, like internals, he can do everything. So I think I had him here for about four months in the end. We just kidnapped him. Yeah. But he, yeah. We knocked up the roof went on in about another two, I think that was about two weeks and we did the sub roof in a week.

Jack Dougan: of hostage on the site.

Jody And James: There's two sort levels to the roof, but we managed to stick the sub roof up in in about four days because I was up on the roof drilling hovels, just trying to screw it down. He was doing it. I was just sort of a glorified laborer, probably getting in his way to be fair. But we were up on the roof doing all those and then then the roofers came in the insulation and all the system went on and same for the roof down by the like the kitchen sort of a single story and that's a different roof again. So other than that sort of it, which was other than that hiccup, which did cost me, you know, so I think it was probably two or three grand in the end. not when you're thinking about the house build, I was like, well, it's not it's not enough for it to derail everything. It's within my contingency fund. That's what a couple of those. Yeah, well, that was that a case wasn't quite right. yeah. Go back and be moved on to drive to.

Jack Dougan: Yes, yeah.

Jody And James: Well, I think it was a five hour round trip to sort that out. But yeah, it was, yeah, I gave him the drawings and said, this is how wide it is. And they took off from, effectively from the structural timber drawings rather from the plasterboard. So it was about, it was 100 mil. It wasn't a massive amount, but it 100 mil. I mean, they managed, yeah, and they managed to shrink it and it went in. It was, yeah, those things like that.

Jack Dougan: sort the stairs. makes a difference.

Jody And James: the, we got a sun, do call this, light. Skylight. Skylight, we go. A very big skylight. Yeah, our skylight's about three meters by a meter and a half, something like that. It's a massive skylight. And again, I just sort of rather naively sort of went, oh, it'll be all right. And then, and then they said, how are you going to get it up there? And I sort of was like, with, with, with grits and willpower. I mean, it worked in the end. Yeah, we got it. Yeah, I was gonna say we got it up there, but was like little things like that, which all of the big stuff was sorted. Like the roof was probably the biggest one, but all the big stuff we got. Yeah, all of it, all that went to, it started to fall over a bit where it came to finish in and the system that we've got on the outside is where we've got sort of like a mock timber around the kitchen. We've got some

Jack Dougan: Yeah, foundation and superstructure all went to plan just.

Jody And James: brick slips around one side and then we got a board that is just sort of rendered and again that was going to plan and it was a k-rend system so you you sort of rub it in and it gives the look of quite sort of yeah and that went up there and I remember we were both sort of there going oh that's really good thank you very much hammered it down it wasn't supposed to rain for like two weeks and it

Jack Dougan: ⁓ no.

Jody And James: We had torrential storms in, what was that, about 23? We had the wettest summer since record began, during our build. It's just sod-sod. I kept apologizing to people for the weather because it was our fault because we decided to build a house. So it was bound to just the worst weather conditions possible. was storms, it was rain, it was just, yeah, it was horrific. Yeah, that was one of the...

Jack Dougan: Yeah, definitely, yeah.

Jody And James: There's nothing you could do, it was just one. That's probably one of the, I think out of everything that probably cost us the most because we had to. The weather cost us. We had to put everything on hold and then we missed slots, which we had. And then we had people just let us down quite a lot. I think in hindsight, we would rather than just kind of trust them because James had worked with them previously, actually get contracts put in place with.

Jack Dougan: redo it all.

Jody And James: everybody, that and having an on-site project manager rather than James trying to do it whilst his full-time job. And be a dad and everything else. only time I think the end point, yeah, there was a point where I was changing jobs and because I knew my boss and I sort of said, can you help me out? He sort of, he agreed to put me on garden leave for sort of three weeks. Yeah, that was good. Which really, really helped and it was a critical point as well. So I managed That was when we managed to go and get the roof done and I bought the insulation for this for everything was sort of me as well. So I managed to get that at least vaguely in the right place. I did make the mistake of bringing the kitchen early because it was that sort of, if you're doing that, you'll save money, well not money. And I was like, oh, that's really good, I'll save money. Yeah. And I got sucked having the Poor guys had to work around boxes of pictures.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, then it's there for four weeks and weeks.

Jody And James: Considering how big the kitchen, how much the actual kitchen took, I really underestimated how many boxes of stuff we were just going to have in the way. And I had to keep moving things around and all sorts. it was, yeah, that was exhausting, but we managed to manage to get around it. again, it's that hindsight. We can save you money as well. I don't care. It will cost me money in the long run. ⁓

Jack Dougan: Yeah, think that's also a thing for the self-evident side of things. It's not all about just the price at the start. It's the timing. It's the schedule. It's everything that goes around it.

Jody And James: Yeah. it's frustrating because I spend, I mean, I work in the water industry in fairness, rather than in house building, which is why I think I've managed to nail the sort of the big stuff because I'm used to, you know, I'm used to the big stuff. I'm used to this sort of, and the M &E is sort of my sort of areas. that just, yeah, because when it came to like the nitty gritty details, Yeah, you do find yourself getting let down by people where I sort of went, we've worked before and I thought you were better than that. And that's where like, like I said, the carpenter who was originally my kitchen fitter, he, he was fantastic. He really pulled my ass out of the fire quite a few times. Yeah. And then the same people who did the foundations who were absolutely fantastic at the start, said, I just, was like, cause we were, we were ahead of pro. I mean, it cost more, but we were ahead of program. So I. I think we officially started in the one, I think we broke ground in like May, didn't Yeah, we originally broke ground in something like May 23. Foundations were there by sort of like the June, the superstructure was up first couple of weeks in July. I had the windows and doors coming sort of the back end of August, I just needed the roof on. and then, and that's when things started to fall over because it's going into August, it started to rain. It would have all worked. It was tight because of originally the people who ended up doing our foundations weren't my... I was originally going to someone I'd worked with and then they ghosted me and I got a bit of a feeling before it got too late and I managed to find someone else and they stepped in. as I say, they were absolutely fantastic and within a month we had it. I had a price, we were all set and I think it fell in between a couple of their larger projects. That's why I managed to get them a shorter notice. They were brilliant. then suddenly when it, like I said, we were, so this is sort of the May the one year and by February, March the next year, we basically had a house. I mean, we'd had ups and downs. I think I went through about three electricians until we ended up with a friend of ours who actually pushed over the line for us. some of the plumber would, the stuff that you can't see. He was really, really good with. But for instance, like we've got two baths. So we've got a bathroom and an ensuite. And it's, you know, the sort of comes out of the wall and you've got like a handle and a shower head. For the tap. For the tap, sorry. Yeah, for the tap. So you, you know, you sort of, if you want to come out the shower head, you, you, you've got like a little sort of knob that you pull out or in. But in the one, in one of the rooms, you push it in and it comes out the tap. And in the other room, you push it in and it comes out the shower head.

Jack Dougan: Yep. Yep.

Jody And James: We didn't have them. then, ⁓ the in the main one, taps are the wrong way. So if you turn it cold, goes hot. Yeah. Things are cold. We needed the bath that we chose wouldn't work because there was the wrong time. It was, it was the wrong taps for the bus. We had to change the bath because he'd already put the taps in the shower. Wouldn't work because of one of the joists, but he ended up, we've got two other shower cubicles and it still wouldn't work.

Jack Dougan: little things.

Jody And James: And then he's like, Oh, I'll just put it on a razor. It's like, could have done that in the first place. Yeah, I was just putting it on some legs and I was like, why didn't you tell me that from the start? It was exhausting. Just did so many things wrong. Yeah. And it was the finishing bits as well. The big stuff that we've got under floor heating, first and second floor. And that went out, they're really complicated stuff for the most part went on without a hitch. There's a, thing, the one, the only thing that annoyed me was I said, Mark up where you're going to put you've got actuators and pumps, mark up where you're going to get them so I can make sure that there's a power supply and he just didn't mark one up and I remember saying like ⁓ you've missed one and his response was ⁓ that's the electrician's problem. I'm like no it's my problem, my house, I'm building this house. Really really pissed me off actually the attitude but. There was a lot of kind of ⁓ that's their problem, that's their problem wasn't there between like the plasterers and then the electricians.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, you're the one who's got to live in it, yeah.

Jody And James: and then the plumber, they all just wanted to like pass it back to the others. Yeah, I think if we had an on-site project manager just being like banging heads together and getting it sorted, we were doing our own stuff, working and everything that we couldn't just be on them. Plus it kind of, I was kind of lulled into a false sense of security because everything else had worked, than when it rained and that that knocked things on, but everything else had just sort of slotted together.

Jack Dougan: tying up the trades together.

Jody And James: looking back on it's because someone came in, they did their bit of work, they left and then another person came in. I didn't have trades work in the same time. So that's when it all that's when it started to sort of get a little bit and that's when I had to sort of be a bit more. I was nowhere near as ruthless as I needed to be with them as well as looking back as well. I should have just told them to sod off. And our ground worked for the driveway so they are the same company that did the foundation where they were fantastic driveway. But he used subbies for that and they just took them in. They were just They're on day works. they would like we then had through our carpenter and another chap who's did some work for us a friend of ours was like you got to have a word because they're coming. They're coming at half nine. They're at half three. McDonald's at ten for a two hour breakfast or whatever. You really take the mickey. So yeah, you can't trust people where you think. which is a shame, I think yeah, we'd be a lot more, if we were bad enough to do it again, we'd have an on-site all, one of us would be on-site. ⁓

Jack Dougan: So that's the key the next time is, well, if there was a next time is to have a project manager there that's on site to tie everything together a little bit more.

Jody And James: Definitely. The biggest piece of advice I think I would give is... Site manager. I know we're calling it a project manager, but it's a site manager that we needed. The timings of everything I can sort out. And contract everything. Yeah. Because I've got, that's the thing is, and that to be honest is where we were. So I don't mind saying Ryan, who was our carpenter who...

Jack Dougan: be more formal with everyone, even if it's friends and yeah.

Jody And James: Like I said, I had him for about three or four months or something, just on the trot. And he basically was like, James, when can I go? Because I've got works that, you know, I appreciate all the work he's given me, but I do have someone I've been working with for like 10 years and they're desperate. And I've been putting them off for like a month because I can see what you're trying to do here. And I was like, well, thank you. Because if you weren't here, I think this would have stopped just out and out stopped if you hadn't been there. And then we had another friend, Callum, who lives across the road in again, on hindsight, I'd have just said to him, you do X? Because he's, he's another one who's very good, but he is groundsworks. He does that outside work. And it would be, I think I'd have probably asked him, could you can you site manage this? Like, I'll pay for your time, you don't have to be there all the time. Because I know he lives across the road from me, if you see what I mean. So like, just having you here, like in the morning, the evening, just keeping an eye would have would have been beneficial, but I'm not going to put that on someone so late in the day.

Jack Dougan: shit.

Jody And James: And it just got to the point where, so we did, I did have a bit of a falling out with the ground workers in the end where they said, well, we went from the loan was due to be paid at the end of April. I was, I got to January, the house was more or less done. It was just needed. It needed a final sign off. needed, so there was the clash and our cultural warranty, the building warranty and building control. And there was just a final push that round with that. I got sort of everything else resolved. I just needed my bloody drive. I needed access to the house. That's all I needed. And it went from sort of me looking at sort of a February, March, of middle to end Feb, start of March, to finally getting it the back end of May, start of June, I think in the end was when it finally came through. And as I said to him, like, I've had to go back to my, I've had to go back to the money people and extend my loan, which has cost me, I think it was like something like 15 grand to extend. And was only like five grand to extend it, but it was like 10 grand to move, or was it the other way around? think was five grand to arrange the movement and then 10 grand extra. And I was like, as I said to him, like, you've cost, I've lost the opportunity there. So I know you're, as I'm saying to you, it's cost me 15. but I've lost the opportunity. I was going to be 10 grand better off. So in my head, you've cost me 25 grand. So, and we did have a bit of a backwards and forwards when I saw it went, look, here's your final payment. I'm not happy with what you've done and I don't want you to come back. But if I'd have done that, if I'd have been harsher with them sooner, if I'd had them under a contract, none of all of that, that's what really came to our heads is we did manage to,

Jack Dougan: Yeah.

Jody And James: Despite things going wrong, did manage to continue to make headway. Things were being signed off. were being done one walked off site in the end. No one walked I tried to. Let's keep coming back. Yeah. No one left. was right at the end. At the time we were selling the cottage, we were sorting out...

Jack Dougan: Right at the end as well, just.

Jody And James: whole sort of new process of where we where we are effectively and right at the end and all I needed was that driveway to be finished and they bumbled around and and yeah like I said I just got Callum to go now because I know he can but I didn't know yeah there's people that yeah people just whereas now I'd sort of go now I know who I'd go back to now I know who I would want to do what with the exception probably of

Jack Dougan: hindsight.

Jody And James: probably the plumbers we probably need to find. ⁓ But with the exception of that, I know enough people now where I'd actually feel comfortable going, I want you to do this in this time, I want you to do this in that time, if there's problems, let me know if you hit soft spots or whatever, you know, it would have been just that much easier to do. But again, as Jodie said, it's, you know, being a quantity surveyor, like contracts is my, you know, administrative contracts up and downstream is what I do for a living. I just because I knew people. Just kind of naivety. I just assumed, you know, we know I've with before, you've always performed and it's fine and they just weren't their priority wasn't us with our sort of I mean, to me, obviously, sort of the hundreds of thousands of pounds we were spending is big, I met, I met, yeah, I met a lot of them because we were doing million pounds worth of projects, which is their priority over this.

Jack Dougan: Yes.

Jody And James: which, yeah. Yeah. This is mine. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I've got it in, and it's, that's kind of up to date, to be honest.

Jack Dougan: Whereas for you, it's the opposite. This is your home, this is your... Living in the home now, all good.

Jody And James: We're in, it's not completely finished still. We were originally going to, we put a, what's the floor surface called? ⁓ we've got a liquid, because it's under floor heating, we've got a liquid screed and I sanded it down and I went to this tiling place and they put like a sealant on so that it doesn't do it and in some, like two thirds of the house, the bits that I sanded, I went from like a sort of 10 grit up to like 120 and you know those massive machines yeah so the bits I've done are fine but when I got someone because I with a kitchen I was like I know I'll get someone professional to at least semi-professional just to run the sander over it and they did it and it's it's nowhere near as good as the ones I did and it's annoying because

Jack Dougan: much.

Jody And James: remember after I did it and sealed it and everything, Ryan came up to me and said, this is what it's supposed to look like. Whoever's done your kitchen's not done it right, but get the person who did this. I was like, well, I did that. And I don't have the time. I don't have the machine on. Yeah. Yeah. It's annoying compliment. Yeah. was like, it's... But our plan was to keep that as the floor surface. But as we've lived with it, especially in the kitchen where it's not done correctly, it's just, it's not practical.

Jack Dougan: Nice ego boost but not ideal.

Jody And James: ⁓ so we need to put some flooring down. Some of the doors still aren't fully painted. We still just got them primed. It is mostly. It's the stairs aren't painted. It's silly things that you just kind of end up going, ⁓ we'll do that one day. Decorating. just having the cosmetic things. Yeah. And like landscaping at the front. Yeah. Cause, cause it was us as well. think we sort of said, we'll put up with that because we're not selling it. So. Yeah. And we've definitely felt like it's been. we kind of thought, let's just sit for a year and let's just not do anything because it's been years now of us doing stuff with it. now we're kind of in the thing of like, oh, it's fine. We don't see it anymore because we used to. When you get people over you kind of like apologising for like, I'm sorry, like, we've got one stair painted to see how it turned out. And I'm sorry, like that door's not painted or the floor is like dusty.

Jack Dougan: You get it all finished and you'll start your next project.

Jody And James: I think they'll get finished and we'll still get to move on. Yeah, that's it. Like, obviously, it was that whole never again when we were in it. But it's a bit like after pregnancy, you get a hormone that makes you forget all the horrors of being pregnant and you think, oh, let's have another child. And it's a bit like that. So I don't think we can ever really say never again. I think it would be a long time away. But I do things differently. Yeah. But

Jack Dougan: Save myself, Phil.

Jody And James: I still think it's in us to do another project. I think so, yeah. When the kids are about older. I was saying to Jodie that I actually quite like the house. There's things I do, as in, because like I said, the original plan was to build and sell. so things like the first floor, like the layout of it, we'd basically flip it, wouldn't we? Because what is one of our daughter's rooms looks over sort of the roof of the kitchen. And we were there going, well, If we've got daughters on one side and then there's the landing, a bathroom and then the master bedroom with the ensuite. There's no reason why you can't just flip that across and then you could probably have a green roof and a doorway out onto the top. And then all I really need to do is put hand railing around it. then suddenly I've got a roof terrace and quite a nice looking roof terrace. And more importantly, because that's where the

Jack Dougan: near. usable space as well.

Jody And James: skylight is. Yeah, because it's where the skylight is. I don't have to climb out the window to clean the skylight. I can just walk out. Things like that that would do differently.

Jack Dougan: Ha ha. So you need to wait until your daughters are now and then plumbers. And then when they're fully trained up, you're good to go. You've got every other trade sorted out. You've got the plan. Just need a pair of plumbers.

Jody And James: Yeah. That's what we should do actually, yes. Put them into a trade and then we can do a project when they're old enough to actually get a one and let you know one as a plumber. Yeah, get a really good plumber. Definitely contact those girls. They don't put their shoes on without negotiating. They are seven and two, just to give her some context. they're not like 15.

Jack Dougan: Yep, but get them contracted as well. Give them a contract. Yeah. Perfect. Amazing.

Jody And James: But yeah, so there's lots of things that we do differently. it's just because I've done it before. I think it's what's that saying sort of a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. And because I've done it before, thought you had to know you'd not construction. I did construction. I'm not doing house building. Yeah. House building. And it was and like I said, the biggest stuff went down without a hitch because it's the bit those are the bits I obsessed with those the bits where I was talking to the sub is I was like, you're going to do it like this, aren't you? aren't you? And I nailed them down to it. And those bits went well. The bits which fell over, like I say, I just wasn't used to the finishing in a house, the trades finishing in a house. And the interactions, I suppose, is the other thing. And I think we'll probably get you to look at the design a bit more. Because I looked at sort of, is the design buildable? That was really it. Like, can I build this? Yes, then that's fine. We just wanted it to get through planning permission and think it was it? Yeah, doable and everything. But actually, I think even if we did another project with the view to sell it, I think I would look at it as how would I live in this house more? Because actually, then that makes it more sellable anyway. ⁓ Exactly.

Jack Dougan: more personal in the design of it.

Jody And James: I think the biggest strength we've got in our house is actually sort what you'd consider wasted space. So we've got quite a big landing and we've got, what do you call that? The entrance hall. like there's quite a big entrance hall, which I suppose any other time you'd sort of go, well, that's wasted space. That could be part of your living room, part of your kitchen, part of your bedroom. But it's actually, I actually think it's one of the most, it's probably the thing I like most is I walk in and there's space and then there's the rooms. Especially when you've got kids with 12 bags each and everything. It's nice to in and just put that there. It's when we go to friends houses and you walk in and there's a front door and it's a corridor and you sort of they go in. Well the standard Victorian style isn't it? We didn't even have a corridor in the cottage where we walked in and in a metre ahead of you was the staircase. Not even that. It was tiny and it was all so

Jack Dougan: Wellies and coats.

Jody And James: Oh God, claustrophobic, whereas this house is really... Spacious. Nice and spacious, yeah. So, yeah, even though we probably could have... Maybe I could have... The way we're in at the moment is the study slash sort of fourth bedroom, I suppose. Slash dumping ground. Yeah. But you could have made this bigger by just sort of marginally changing other things, but you'd have significantly reduced the hall. I actually like that there's... a space to walk into. There's things like that where get, and I wouldn't have considered that. I really wouldn't have considered it until physically walking in and seeing the space and living in it. Yeah. So there are things where I've gone, actually that's worked really well. And there's things where I've gone, that doesn't work at all. And I need to change X, Y and Z. And there is a bit of a mixed bag in that regard. mean, overall.

Jack Dougan: living in it.

Jody And James: I think overall I'm mostly happy with it.

Jack Dougan: It sounds like it's, you've been living through it, I suppose, but it sounds like, you know, you know, getting a super structure all without any problems whatsoever. That's all absolutely fine. You know, inexperience and a little bit of, you know, require a project manager for the internals. But overall, from our, I'm sitting, it sounds like a good project. That's, that's overall gone relatively well.

Jody And James: Yeah, think, you know, if look at it kind of from a way, like, it probably was, is classed as a good successful project, I guess. It was more than I meant it to. It more than we wanted it to. And took longer. We're not in a situation where we thought we would be. But when you look at the big scheme of things,

Jack Dougan: Yeah.

Jody And James: of other people's projects and how they just have to abandon them or they end up so much more debt than they imagined and all that kind of stuff. That hasn't happened to us, thank God. Yeah. I mean, I remember taking out loans on top of loans, but the one thing that was good is when we did shift everything over, that all just went. That was paid off and done and now it's sort of just the mortgage. Well, we ended up having to take a second mortgage. a hefty mortgage. a big mortgage, but we managed to get rid of the whole... Everything that I was sitting under went. So the only actual... Other than sort house bills and the mortgage, I don't have any other debt sitting over us. Other than Bank of Mum and Dad, where I do own quite a bit. But at that's not gaining interest.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, there's always a plus. And the cottage you were in during the build, have you sold that one? Have you kept that one? Yeah.

Jody And James: Now we sold that in the end. That wasn't an easy process either because it was partly sold and things. It's a 17th century cottage so it was really old and really lost deeds and everything that could be done with that was a tricky one. But that's sold now and our neighbour's happy in there isn't she? Yeah, well she's going through the process of enlargement for IO. I'll probably jump on the back of that as well. so the land we're on is leasehold land, which is the other risky part, which is was also one of the other reasons why we thought if we build it, we. we should hopefully be able to manage that selling process a bit better because of the whole leasehold situation. It's not a leasehold in the sense of there is a lease and I have to pay for ground rent or it's a leasehold that has been missing for 200 years or something like that. So it's one of those, there's people don't like it, do they? They want to, I want the freehold, I own the land. They don't want some potential landlord's creep. And even though no one ever has, even though I've got the insurance for it was something like 40 quid for 250,000. You just sort of go, well, if the insurance company is considering it. Yeah, it's. Yeah, so was things like that we thought that hopefully would make things a bit easier. Plus we can at least talk to someone and go, this is the situation, this is where we are, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, that doesn't really say that process wasn't.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, that's solicitors there to protect you in that instance.

Jody And James: easy so we are sort of looking going well do we is that our next thing now do we push for enlargement so that when when and or if we ever do sell this place it's just a freehold house that we're selling and yeah i never looked at that because was living in it i just sort of was like i don't know not anymore i quite like when we're here i like the house we've had

Jack Dougan: Yeah

Jody And James: quite a few parties here because it's the bigger house that people can fit in, it's open plan and it's like the kitchen's enormous for a kitchen sort of diner, or at least I think it's enormous, I don't know about you. It's a big room and people do, you know, how many they like the house and yeah, it kind of, it pays to have like our big family parties and things, which is lovely and the kids just run riot and it's lovely. We live in it well, like it's a nice house to live in.

Jack Dougan: That's nice.

Jody And James: I would say it would be our forever home, it's not location wise where we would ideally want to be. As James said, it's kind of on a main road ⁓ and we'd like a bit more land around us. So hence why we're not swearing off to projects. it's the location is the only thing where if it's all like, it's not really ideal because you do sort of

Jack Dougan: I'll see you in another one.

Jody And James: We've got a driveway and that's great in the sense that it's big enough that you can turn a car around. I don't need to like reverse onto a road or anything ridiculous, but it's still a main road. At some point, I think we wanted to have a dog. We just thought, we're to have to, if it got out on the main roads. So that might have to be a bit of a phased approach.

Jack Dougan: That's fair enough. Right, well, brilliant. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your projects. And yeah, obviously give Mayflower a call when you're ready to start your next project. Right, thank you so much. Cheers, Joad and James. See you later. Cheers.

Jody And James: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you very much.