Jack Dougan: So welcome to Mayflower podcast. Mordit is on and he's kindly said he will come and discuss his self built journey. ⁓ Mordit, start with an overview for yourself. Just tell us a little bit about your project, what it was, where you're up to and sort of what made you do it in the first place.

MS ( M Sharma): Thank you, Jack, for having me. ⁓ And a quick background about my experience with the build, ⁓ you know, ⁓ sector. have had... couple of extensions and loft conversions and ⁓ expanding the livable space done in the last 10, 15 years in the southeast of the country. ⁓ And then I decided that extensions can only tick so many boxes. So I decided to ⁓ maybe take some more risk and test my adventure appetite and go for the whole nine yards ⁓ or the full English as we say it. ⁓ And it was driven primarily that ⁓ I was getting a lot more, you know, demand. ⁓ from the sellers to upscale my house. And I was not able to find any house where I can move in on day one. There was always an additional investment if I take the chains away. And secondly, because of my previous construction experiences, I was a little less hesitant. And I do see builders in the right light, because if you talk about our peers or our neighbors or our family and friends, they have a certain view about the whole building community. So it was all about, ⁓

Jack Dougan: Yep.

MS ( M Sharma): know, get this thing done so that I can have a house for the next 10-15 years if not more.

Jack Dougan: So yeah, little bit of lack of what's on the market available to you and also sort building the dream home out. And do you project imagine it yourself or did you get someone in to do that for you?

MS ( M Sharma): Yeah. So I was ⁓ the primary program manager or the program director as you would like to call it. I wanted the reason primarily to come on this podcast was Jack to. I know we have a reasonably solid self-built community in this country, but I think looking at the housing sector and all the headlines it has grabbed for the last 15 years, and it will start keep grabbing for the next 10 years as well, I think the self-built community should become more stronger and we should have a voice, you know, in HMRC and at the Chancellor's doorstep, because I think we are solving a couple of problems for the country. We are adding to the housing stock. We are adding to a new housing stock because on an average if we compare to our European neighbors, we have a dated and old housing stock. So ⁓ you're absolutely right. I was the primary program director. I had ⁓ a key contractor who did 70 % of the job. And then I have various tradesmen doing interiors or tiles or paving or the driveway or the garden in that way. 70-30 split between the primary and the secondary tradesmen. And of course, I was the super glue around them.

Jack Dougan: And how did you find your contractors that you're using and did you have people you worked with previously or was it starting from scratch on this project?

MS ( M Sharma): I did not use any of the contractors I worked with previously for the simple reason that they had a different kind of balance sheet and the risk appetite. So they were not very willing to go for a five bedroom detached ⁓ project. Of course, maybe I did not say of course question that how was the project. The project is five bedroom detached property.

Jack Dougan: Yep.

MS ( M Sharma): ⁓ on one third of an acre of plot. ⁓ So that's the detail. so I had to go and find and screen some of the contractors. Some came from ⁓ friends and family, some came from word of mouth. ⁓ And the person who was selling me the plot was himself a builder. He wanted to sell me and build the house. But I negotiated to buy the land first and then figure out the construction because for me, construction is an area which can have a high degree of variance and I did not want to have any surprises, any significant surprises on this journey and it took me 11 and a half months from start to finish minus the planning permission. So from the first day of construction and the ground works till me moving in was ⁓ a time elapsed of 11 months, 11 calendar month.

Jack Dougan: ⁓ brilliant. So was a pretty efficient project from that side. And how did you find the planning side of things and the application process and the local authority from that side? Is it painful or was it relatively OK?

MS ( M Sharma): See, everybody has a different threshold to stress, you know, and I think I have to say this from, you are keen to get a house to live for the next 10, 15 years based upon your requirements and you are willing to save 20 % of the project value,

Jack Dougan: Yeah.

MS ( M Sharma): ⁓ which is quite sizable no matter what project size you end up doing the self-build on. I think that is a great risk reward equation to venture in. So I did not find it humongously stressful for two reasons that there is a push from Whitehall on loosening up the planning guardrails. And I did basically ⁓ starters for 10 ⁓ hygiene like talking to the neighbors, all three of them, ⁓ both sides in the back. ⁓ and they were quite worried because the property was in a very bad shape. was a two bedroom bungalow built in 1912. It was a security risk. So they were more excited, I would say, to say that, you know, this is going to be replaced by a family household. on the planning, yeah, I would say if you plan well,

Jack Dougan: Projects enhancing the area rather than anything else.

MS ( M Sharma): And if you sense that the councils are becoming a little bit more ⁓ open to ⁓ the planning flexibility, it takes some time, three to four months to five months, but I believe it is worth looking at the eventual outcome.

Jack Dougan: And for the build, what materials did you use? Is it traditional sort of brick and block or was it timber frame? What did you go with in the end?

MS ( M Sharma): So I travel for my work, so I made a few visits along with my work travels ⁓ to Poland and to Italy because I had a decision to be made upfront about the timber frame versus brick and block. And while I had no water bodies or railway lines ⁓ in the proximity, and I had done some calculations based upon how much time the timber frame saves and what are the pros and cons around it, I went for brick and block. and I went for slate, ⁓ not the natural slate because it's slightly more maintenance heavy, but the artificial slate. ⁓ So yeah, so ⁓ antique kind of dated looking bricks, blocks and artificial slates. A, because the time added because of the brick work and block work and roof work ⁓ was ⁓ paid. fully and more by the commercials. And I was also looking at downstream, ⁓ you know, the building certificate, the mortgage, ⁓ you know, ⁓ applicability and getting the best interest rates and deals because timber frame is very popular in some of the European countries, ⁓ but not so popular in the UK so far in my knowledge.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, no, you're right. mean, it is becoming more and more, more and more popular and the lenders are now pretty much all on board with that construction method. So it's opening up and again, that's where we come in from the finance side. You said about the brick and block and sort of the time, it's a little bit longer in terms of that construction method. Was your project on time? Was it sort of 12 month build? Was your plan to start off with and you met that or were you any delays in the middle?

MS ( M Sharma): I wish I could take credit as the program manager, but I don't want to. But fingers on the wood, Jack, ⁓ it was, I think, 45 days ahead of the schedule. And because of the material supply chain, because the lesson I learned, and maybe it will be useful for people who listen to this podcast, is that...

Jack Dougan: in.

MS ( M Sharma): A, asbestos because when you demolish an old property and build a new, there should not be any asbestos because it leads to a massive increase in the safe disposal of that substance. Number two, the soil test because if you end up in a piling foundation, not a typical concrete foundation, it also adds to a lot of money and delays. So I did the asbestos and the soil test up front and that really helped me. And the last part is I was able to get my material supply chain sorted so that the contractor is not sitting idle and I'm not losing money and time. The weather wise it was I think quite, I built it in 2024 so we had a bit of a wet winter but still I was able to get it 45 days out of the timeline. The key was the material supply chain then the labor supply chain or the hands and feet. So that would be my...

Jack Dougan: The preparation and pre-planning helps things go through a lot smoother. So overall on the project, what went well? What were the key parts that went to plan perfectly okay ⁓ and you'd recommend to other people?

MS ( M Sharma): in I would say that I was ⁓ surprised by the variance in the cost of the same material. Depending on where you buy it. We think that the builders merchants and the usual suspects ⁓ Give you the best combination of value ⁓ and and money But for me what went well was not a mind-boggling Level of research but some research on the high ticket items you will find it in every blog on the self-built websites and forums and events That you have, ⁓ know the flooring which is expensive the copper pipe for the plumbing, very expensive ⁓ bricks, ⁓ artificial slates for the roofing. So these things, fortunately, I did not see a plus minus 20 % kind of variance, which was ⁓ crucial to keep the time and the budget intact. In the same latitude, what did not go well is that I somehow underestimated ⁓ the finish ⁓ differentiation of interiors. when you get the product, you're looking just like an iPhone or an Apple, you're looking at user experience, you don't look into the chip or other things all the time. So ⁓ it was a learning on the fly ⁓ in terms of not having the dinner table conversations endlessly going to the kind of finish everybody wants in the family. So maybe I was not able to keep everybody extremely happy, but I had to keep my foot down. but you know, that saved me some money and maybe I don't have, ⁓ you know, a grand house design kind of a finish, but whenever people walk into the home, the house, ⁓ they generally have some nice things to say. So I do believe I'm, if not the, you know, a palatial experience level, I'm on a decent experience level from an interior standpoint.

Jack Dougan: So the main construction went really well. Finer details took a little bit more more give and take in the end. Is there anything you'd do differently next time?

MS ( M Sharma): I would do the fitted wardrobes, kitchen and the interiors decoration a bit differently. I would use ⁓ a lot more ⁓ three-dimensional wallpapers I will use because they make the rooms look much bigger. You can change them without the decorators coming and painting the wall again. They're low maintenance. I would also do the, I got the the double beds, ⁓ bedrooms, fitted kitchens, a bar, a study, all that sorted out. And that was the only element where I struggled to find the right balance of value. velocity and money because you can end up spending any amount of money on that. So that was one area where I felt slightly under control. Maybe I could have done more research on that. But that was approximately 15 % of the project cost, just the joinery and the kitchens and the bedroom and the interiors part of it.

Jack Dougan: In terms of the construction process from right from foundations to wind and water type, anything in there that you'd talk of any top tips for anyone going through that process.

MS ( M Sharma): I, ⁓ so my view is that when you go for ⁓ all the timber required for your construction, I'm going to use a technical term, C24, C16 are the two types of general wood we use, timber we use for construction. All the mass new builds use C16. So when you are building your house yourself, I believe you can go for ⁓ much superior materials at a much lesser price points because you are buying in bulk. Most of the timber is anyways imported in the country from the north states or Latvia, Lithuania or Poland. ⁓ So I would say that ⁓ was ⁓ key. The other thing I would say ⁓ Jack is that Foundation no surprises because of the soil test. There was no piling surprise coming on the way ⁓ I went with buying the bricks from the manufacturers directly That would be my advice and I also bought ⁓ the artificial slate from a manufacturers authorized distributor and and Fortunately because of we are used to a certain set of tiling We don't see artificial slate a lot at least to the to the knowledge I had at that point in time. Those people were also very keen to make the project success because if they see artificial slate more and more getting adopted just like the timber frame you talked about it creates a new market from the traditional markets we have seen for decades and maybe centuries in this country.

Jack Dougan: Yeah. And that's the thing with the self-build market at the moment, isn't it? It's that push on a push the housing market on via self-build to, you know, bring it into the sort of the modern era. And it doesn't have to be that traditional build. It doesn't need to be. There's a market out there for all types of projects, all materials and, you know, building those houses that are bespoke and tailored to everybody's needs and can give great value as well. And the biggest question is would you do it again? you build again?

MS ( M Sharma): If you ask me and I will deny it if I my family's around me, I will do it again I'll only do it again because I I did offer it to my teenage son that you know, don't go for a new build. Sorry I don't want to be having any disrespect for any builder, but I do believe that if you get a decent plot, maybe old properties, old bungalows which are coming up in the market

Jack Dougan: Right.

MS ( M Sharma): Nobody wants to buy them as frantically as other projects because there's a lot of money and we have a tendency that, it's one year of our lives, it's too much stress. I think if you get 80 % odds of success, just go for it. And I will do it again. ⁓ If my son allows me to be nosy, I will do it again for him. If not, ⁓ once he has gone to the uni, maybe I'll do it for me and my wife.

Jack Dougan: to hear. Amazing, go down there, go bigger, just go bigger again, just keep going, just keep moving up the chain. It's nice to hear that you would do it again and go through the process. Bring it back to the plot side of things. How did you find your plot? Was it just a case of trawling through websites or Rightmove or anything like that, or land sellers, or what did you do to find that plot?

MS ( M Sharma): So, and there's always a bit of a destiny involved, whether you believe in that or not. ⁓ I think right, you're right actually, and you need loads of that, but I don't want to make people nervous who are not believers in destiny that you can't get it done, they can get it done. ⁓ So, ⁓ my understanding was right move, not helpful. ⁓ Zoopla, not helpful.

Jack Dougan: that you have to with Self Build.

MS ( M Sharma): plot finder, there are multiple plot websites, but not great because they are not those, you know, very well updated user intuitive websites that dated some of the plots are already sold, but just on the the on the websites. For me, the the primary, you know, I think I recall it now, it was the same, you know, driving through. So I got to know about this because there was a very rare kind of an estate agent's signpost on this plot and I just wondered that why this is not the usual estate agent selling this property and then I called them they were like seven miles away from the plot and I said why and they said we know the builder he used to work with my father and he wants to ideally sell it to someone who wants to not only buy the plot but also award him the construction contract and I believe he sold it for 25,000 pounds more than what I offered. They could not ⁓ gather the required funds in the right time and the deal fell through and I got this plot on the rebound. ⁓ And then because of the rebound, I had a couple of meetings with the builders directly because the builders were trying to push me for the whole Turnkey project. and we were able to agree on 25,000 pounds less than what you offer to the other bidder. So it was just a stroke of destiny more than a website led. But plot finder is great. But I would also encourage maybe next time if I'm still physically and mentally able, I would look for bundlers which are not habitated, maybe auctions. I figured out auctions are a great way to do that. because of the community infrastructure, maybe CIO, you can't buy two large plots and build houses and sell few and keep one for yourself. But I would go around. I would go around in the area and spend some diesel or petrol driving around. That always helps in my book.

Jack Dougan: time and sort of real life experience of looking around the areas that you're looking to build and financing of the project itself. How do you find that process from sort of start to finish? Presumably you've had standard mortgages in the past which have been a little bit different to the sort of the self-filled side. How was that for you?

MS ( M Sharma): Yeah. ⁓ Of course you guys were ⁓ a tremendous support. ⁓ I explored everything, bridging loans, ⁓ development finance and all those things, but the interest rate was just not suitable. ⁓ So I basically had a view that I, because I was building an EPC A level property, I would get a nice mortgage deal from sustainable, ⁓ know, mortgage organizations, but I did not because of the ticket size of the project. So I had to go for, you know, from Mayflower, they were, you know, and you guys have the costing mechanism too. ⁓ which is a good reference point to have if not accurate, but that gives you enough to do the number crunching on an ongoing basis. So I had a standard mortgage on my property ⁓ and then I created ⁓ some kind of, I would say a war chest to do the deposit and whatever equity I had to put in the project. I recall... 55 % of the plot was financed and 80 % of the construction was financed. And it was done via Mayflower and to a building society. I don't have the privileges to name them because I think I don't know if the NDEs apply or not. But at that time, I'll be very honest, I spoke to a lot of companies directly. ⁓ you know before going through you guys because I was just trying to see that if I'm getting some reasonable success in going to the manufacturers to buy the materials and everything why can't I yeah yeah so

Jack Dougan: Yeah, is it the same process from the finance side?

MS ( M Sharma): But fortunately, I think the reason why you guys started, I think there's a story about the founders as well. They were also in a situation like the self-built community. Very helpful, good deals, good network. I don't think the self-built finance market is skewed towards end users. They're more skewed towards intermediaries and big developers. So yeah, it was you guys through a self-built mortgage financing 50 % of the plot. 80 % of the construction and then I switched over to Senate mortgage once it was fully built and Yeah, I think I also found the building certificate and the sign off with the council relatively easy the bigger threat was the sale tax because if you move a meter here and we still is like a Is like a bogeyman if I can use that word, know, you have been you get you get threatened by still a lot You know, you're gonna get a check of hundred thousand pounds. You see bad news and I said I can't afford a hundred thousand pound ⁓ PCN. Can I so

Jack Dougan: Yeah. Yes.

MS ( M Sharma): So, yeah.

Jack Dougan: but that's when we'll come in to advise and keep everything within its parameters. Well, look, Mordic, thank you very much for coming on. I'm sure that's gonna be really useful to people listening and yeah, good luck for the future. Enjoy the house and then obviously give us another tinkle when you're building the next one or two or three.

MS ( M Sharma): Again, for having me. And if I have to, again, not that I'm trying to be very bullish about it, but I would say if you think that you are not getting the right kind of price and value equation in the secondary market, self-value is worth it. ⁓ And eight times out of 10.

Jack Dougan: Yeah, brilliant. Right. Thank you very much. See you soon. Cheers.

MS ( M Sharma): Thank you for having me and thanks for the time today, Jack.