Jack: Hello and welcome back to the Self Builders Podcast brought to you by Mayflower Mortgage and Finance. My name is Jack Dugan, your host, and this podcast is for anyone planning, funding or building their own home. Again, we've got another guest on this week who is part way through their project. So Bethany, welcome and it's great to have you on. Thank you so much for taking the time out to to speak to us. Bethany Travis: Thank for having us, thank you, appreciate you reaching out. Jack: And right, so we'll just get stra straight off to it. Can you please introduce yourself and what your project is, what you're looking to do, and sort of where or where were you in life when the idea first first came about for for building your own home? Bethany Travis: Yes, as you said, my name is Bethany. Me and my partner Chris decided to venture on and doing a barn conversion in 2021, 22, I believe. So my grandma owns a farm in a little village and there was a derelict barn on the end. We working out what to do. Do we go and buy a house, do we go and buy a new build or do we tackle the barn? So we decided to tackle the barn hence why we're here today. So... Obviously once we'd purchased the barn, it was a stage of planning and then it was a stage of how are going to fund it, hence where Mayflower came in. So we initially spoke to Mike quite a years ago. At the time we were only 22, so it was very daunting and do have to say quite a lot of people didn't have any faith in us. It was very much just a case of were you too young or you're you know, it's too big of a project for you. We dealt with sort of... been to a few building shows and things and we did get snubbed quite a bit really because of our age but Mike was brilliant. He sort of laid out the grounds of what you needed to do, opened our eyes as to all the surveys that we needed which we had no idea about, Jack: Yeah. Bethany Travis: all the bat surveys and all the rest of it. So yeah he was brilliant in sort of forming the foundations of what our project was going to be really and how we were actually eventually going to be able to fund it. So throughout the project we sort of felt self-funded at the start. got cracking with all the underpinning which needed doing so there was no foundations so we had to underpin everything which was a massive job. took a long time to do but yeah that's all completed. Foundations went in and now at the point where we've completed on the mortgage Glenn Chandler was our mortgage advisor he was brilliant we had a few obstacles as you do and himself and Lisa were just they were just brilliant, Jack: Amazing. Bethany Travis: constantly in touch with us, communicating as to what was going on and why it was going on. These things are so complicated. Like for myself, understanding I'm the one that does all the admin, Chris is the one that does the building, he's the engineer, he's Jack: Good team. Bethany Travis: brilliant in that side of things and I'm more the accounting admin side of things. So, you know, for me having to read through all of the documents and everything, you know. processing that. was quite, it was more challenging than I thought it would be. So Glenn and Lisa were brilliant with all my silly questions that I'd ring up and ask. This is it. Jack: There's no there's no silly questions with self build. The more you can ask and the more information the the better it is. Yeah, that's all it's about. I mean, it's a really important point that I think that in in sort of self build and that sort of area, you do tend to find you know, twenties, early twenties is very young for the sector. Bethany Travis: Yeah. Yeah. Jack: potentially because of sort of, you know, life life stages, funding, money availability and and things Bethany Travis: Yeah. Yeah. Jack: like that. So yeah, good to go go go back to sort of where your sort initial thoughts for it was it when what was the motivation around it for the self build? Was it that you couldn't find anything off the shelf that you were looking at, or was it just that you got this opportunity from obviously the family, family land? Bethany Travis: Well, I think it's probably a combination of a few things to be fair. So my family, said there's two farms on my side of the family. So there's my dad's side and my mum's side. And we live in the middle of both. My mum and dad did a barn conversion. My grandparents also did the same. And I just, I'm very precious about where I live. Like I'm very, you know, it's very valuable to me. Like I wouldn't ever, it's just, it's beautiful. And it's really valuable than the fact that my mum and dad did. So I think for me, it was important to have the same feeling for my home and Chris's home. And Chris is all on board for doing stuff like this. So it just made sense. And in terms of, obviously, you say, for funding and things, we were very fortunate that we worked hard enough to be able to get ourselves started. But when we've actually compared what we're going to end up with and how much we're going to pay, for what we end up with in comparison to what we could have got on our salaries on a normal mortgage. We would never have been able to afford to have done this as in if we went to just buy the barn complete we wouldn't be able to do it. So although it's hard work I think well it pays off in the long term doesn't it? not there yet but we will be eventually. Yeah so it just made sense. Jack: That's it. And there's there's different reasons why why people are self build. And one of them is that is yeah, like you said, the bespoke home to your design, your location, exactly how you want it, but also, you know, cost you you know, you will realise the the value uplift when you complete the project, which is a great it's a great point to make. Bethany Travis: Yeah, this is it. And you get to project manage all the way through, you know, get to choose your windows and your doors and you get to know how you get to choose how your living room sits next to your kitchen. know, that's amazing to be able to actually choose that. That's really grateful that we can do that. Jack: Brilliant. And then the sort of planning and design of the property. So how how did you find that sort of stage? Obtaining the planning permission, the design of what you're you're looking to build. And how many bedrooms is it? You what what did you get? Bethany Travis: Yeah so we're in the Peak Park so we're governed by one of like the country's strictest policies. Jack: Yeah. Bethany Travis: They are very particular on what you can have and what you can't have. So at the very start we didn't even know whether we would be accepted to do this. We're next to a green belt, we're next to listed buildings, the barn's not listed but it should be really. So we didn't even know whether we'd get planning permission but thankfully our architect Amy is brilliant. She understands how people work, she understands what they do and don't like and what we can can't have. So she was really thoughtful and considerate as to how she put the plans together. we have got, we sort of split the barn up. It's sort of live in one side and bedrooms in another. It's three bedrooms overall, but you could have four, but there's just me and Chris. So we decided to have a nice big bedroom. there's three bathrooms, utility which is sort of a lean to and then a garden area as well. So Peat Park were brilliant in accepting our plans. They were really constructive, very direct as to what we could and couldn't have. So we knew where we stood. It wasn't, you know, a case of you can't have it but you can have this. They were very good. So our plans got approved within, I believe it was about six months, so in 2023. We got full planning permission with a couple of notes to say you can have three shades of grey on your windows and things and stuff like that which is fine. Three shades of grey, really wide range of choice. Jack: Go wild. Bethany Travis: Yeah, they were really good. Jack: amazing. Is there anything you'd do differently at that stage if you're gonna do it again? Or did it was it actually looking back not too not too stressful? Bethany Travis: It wasn't too stressful. think for me and Chris, I'm the creative one and Chris potentially struggles to see what it might look like. you know, we struggled with the, we struggled with the, we're on the side of a hill. So we had different levels with, there's about 10 different levels on the bar and like different steps going up and down and really sort of working into being on the side of a hill, obviously having to underpin everything to get the height. I think if we were going to go back and do it all again, I think. because we've got that knowledge now of what needs to be done and what can be done. I don't think we'd do it differently in this sense, but I think we would potentially actually do more ourselves. Now we know what's required. I think, you know, there's a little bit that we could actually potentially have done ourselves, but at the time we didn't have the knowledge or know how to be able to do that. Jack: Yeah, that's where you rely where it comes in relying on people who who sort of have that that expertise. talk a little bit about budget and and budgeting costings and and things like that. So the finance side is a part where some people do get a little bit sort of concerned or or nervous, but how confident were you at the start of your project that you had your costing sort of laid out, all sort of contingencies built in, everything nailed down as as much as they can be? Bethany Travis: we didn't I won't lie, we Jack: Ha ha. Bethany Travis: didn't at all. I found it really difficult because I like to have everything to the penny and laid out and I know what's coming, I know how it's going to work and how it's going to look and that just wasn't feasible because of the timescale as well. So obviously in 2020, costs were different to what we're actually paying now. So that was one factor. Myself and Chris have changed jobs since, so that was another factor in a positive way, but we didn't know that at the time. I think, I don't think you're ever gonna get it nailed on and I've appreciated that over time and it's not gonna be nailed on. But in terms of every job that we've done, we've treated it as a mini project. So the underpinning for example, that was a project in itself. We got the plans done, we got them checked. We spoke to different, we've got a structural engineer and a civil engineer called Keystone Black who is superb. and has saved us a lot of money with actually just working out how the best way is to do this, know, to keep something at a different level so you don't have to underpin it, to really plot out the underpinning sections, to measure out your bill of quant as to how much connercrete was needed. He was honestly brilliant in that because if we didn't have that, you know, Jack: Amazing. Bethany Travis: there would have been massive swings. We would get a cost in from four five different suppliers and there'd be tens of thousands of pounds apart. And how do you know what the correct cost is? to have that structure as to, you know, this is how much concrete per section is going to have, you you measure it and it's not the same, you know, there's a bit of a cost discrepancy there. So I think just treating everything as a project, the windows, the doors, the roof, you know, it's all individual mini projects in a big one. Otherwise you just get too overwhelmed, I think, by thinking, I need to put a bathroom in, but you've not even got. Windows in, yeah, you know that I think that's... Yeah. I'm a upset for going to the end. Jack: it's a great way to look at it. Yeah. Take every every part in its in its own its own project. And if one's a little bit bit stressful, at least you've got the other parts that'll that'll offset it. was there any costs that didn't make it into regional budgets? Anything that's sort of you know, a little bit sort of loose, fees, surveys, groundworks, anything that popped up that was Not originally planned. Bethany Travis: At the moment, nothing major's popped up that we thought, right, okay, we didn't know we were gonna, we'd need to pay for that. But I think again, because we've treated it as an isolated project as we've gone along, we've sort of got the grounds as to this is what to expect, know, per, like for example, we've got to put a retaining wall and we had to put all the external drainage in as well and Keystone Black. helped us with that so it sort of set out this is what you're going to expect for that you know that mini project before we got into it so that really did help plan. Jack: amazing. And then again from the from the funding point of view, so the mortgage itself, obviously a mortgage for a self-build is slightly struck well, it's structured slightly differently to a a standard mortgage. How did you find that and and sort of the f the funding process? Was it different to how you expected, or was it just a case of look, it is what it is. It's it's been explained and therefore this is how we're going to to do it? Bethany Travis: think it is a completely different concept to a normal standard mortgage and I think a lot of people find that really strange, you receive money to go and do your product, that's not normally how it works. think because of that, you know, it did take a little time to actually understand and appreciate how it worked and why it worked that way. But I think now we understand why it works that way, you know, and like I say, Mayfar have been brilliant in explaining that and, you know, detailing every little detail that we needed to know. Because again it can be a bit overwhelming, you have know pages of documents and you're signing up you know for a lot of money essentially to borrow and you know it can be scary and daunting but I think the process overall was really smooth, it was really clear what what to expect you know at the very start this is how it works, this is the time scale, there's a lot of information that we've got to provide as well. That takes time as well just to actually gather everything and send it across and make sure it's correct and not today. But having that open communication and that one person that you deal with rather than several different people that don't, you know, they've not dealt with you since the start, I think that's really valuable. Jack: Yeah, that consistency is we find it key in in the way that we Bethany Travis: 100 % Jack: we approach it and you know, having Glenn as your sort of main contract all the way through sort of the advice part and it's switching to Lisa to do the the nitty gritty, although Glenn will probably have a go at me for saying that. Bethany Travis: Yeah. Jack: so no, that can continuity as well. And you've always got someone there that you can you can contact which which hopefully makes it a little bit less less stressful for for you. right, build the build itself have moved up, let's move on to that. So How did you approach it? I think you've already sort of mentioned you you self managed the project. So how's it going? Talk me through what you've done so far, where you're up to and and what's still to still to come. Bethany Travis: Yeah, so we have all our foundations done, floor slab, concrete, water's almost in, the roof is being done as we speak. They're putting the Velox's in which I'm very excited to see because that's something I can see. The roof's gone back on, it's Yorkshire's slate so that's looking great. We've got all our external drainage done. we have got a retaining wall to be booked in before the end of summer and then we've got all of our internal structural works to be done as well but in the sense of sort block work and lintels so it's sort of a mixture of people are going to help us with that so that's coming up soon. We're hoping to be watertight by the end of the year maybe almost in spring next year if we're pushing it on so all windows and doors and then we're sort of building up structurally inside then sort of building all the putting all the woodworking, the first floor fixings, all the insulation and plasterboard. So we really will see it start to come together and we're hoping to be in by next winter. So in and finished by next Jack: Amazing. Bethany Travis: winter. Jack: The exciting parts to come then when it all starts all starts coming together. So what what was Yeah, there's always one Bethany Travis: I want to choose a kitchen now, that's my next bit. Jack: bit you want to try and get rush rush forward and get done. What's what's the biggest surprise you've had now you're on site and everything is is sort of rolling forward? What's have you got any of things that have taken you sort of you were expecting or it's gone better than expected or? Ibak. Bethany Travis: Sorry, someone rang me again. Jack: It's probably like so what what now you're on site, what has surprised you most? Bethany Travis: This is a of a rogue answer but the support of our neighbours really Jack: amazing. Bethany Travis: surprised us. You never know when you're doing something like this because it does cause disruption as much as you try and minimise it. But I think that was, they have been brilliant. They are so interested in what we're doing, really helpful, really supportive and really want us to do well and that's been... That's been lovely and not a surprise, but it's been really nice. Jack: I think it makes a difference, doesn't it? If you've if you've started a project, it's your dream and you've got people who you know, you often see it on the planning at the planning station objections. Now it might it's not personal, but it can sort of feel that way and can lead into that that feeling across the neighbours when you start funding. So if you've got everyone on board around you, it just I think it gives you another bit more wind in your sails to to keep going. Bethany Travis: and send. Jack: Please. and I don't know if so far has there been any sort particular phase that's felt more intense or or difficult? Bethany Travis: more intense or difficult? I think we felt like the actual foundation work was more than we expected because obviously this soil and ground has been in there for literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and we've just gone in and disturbed it all and we thought, you know, within a few days we'll have it all dug out and then can put the concrete in. No, was about three weeks later when we were at that point because there was so much compacted soil and muck that it just took such a long time and we really weren't expecting it. So I think that was a bit of a surprise to us. But it didn't matter overall because it was still achievable, it just took a little bit longer. Jack: I suppose three weeks in the grand scheme of things isn't isn't too bad. Now, obviously the Bethany Travis: It's not massive is it? Yeah. Jack: grand design's bit grand design is built around everything going wrong, but has there been anything that has gone wrong so far or have you have you managed to keep it quite quite tight? Bethany Travis: I don't say, no, everything's been fine so far. Everything's been fine so far. There's no major issues. We thought potentially when we took the roof off that we'd need to put structural steels in because the wood had been there again for hundreds of years. But with our sort of supporting battons and rafters and things, it's been fine. So we thought that might be an issue, but it's been fine. We did have... We did have an issue with some flooding last winter, which was honestly horrendous. We have got PTSD from the rain now. because we were into the side of a bank, the water obviously found its way in. We were having to pump it out, getting up every couple of hours through the night to make sure that the water was emptied so that it didn't flood next door. Yeah, that was horrendous time, but we've got all our drainage in now, so we're hoping it's all fine. Jack: That feels like the biggest win so far, I'm guessing. That's that's a pretty major one. You're very positive. They say that there's nothing's Bethany Travis: We just need it to rain. Jack: gone wrong and you were pumping out water at two o'clock in the morning, but all right. Bethany Travis: I know, I know, I've blocked it out because it was so traumatic. Jack: That's it. Just repress the memories. That's the way forward. That's that's how we do a self build. Bethany Travis: Yes. Yes. Jack: and I'm no g you're not sort of all the way through yet, but has there been a moment so far where you've you've said, This is amazing, like this is what we wanted, this is why we're doing it. Bethany Travis: Completely. I think, you know, for myself and Chris, we both get overwhelmed at times and we're both busy with life and work anyway. So doing this on top of all of that, it can get a bit much at times, but you know, we really do work as a team and obviously love him to bits and he's brilliant and we're both sort of supporting each other. But I think once you get over like that mini project that you're doing, so for example, the underpinning or the floor or the roof, like we quite often just sit back and... Just have a moment to just look at how far we've come and, you know, if we go back to the very start when it had trapped us in three years ago and, you know, it was just filled full of rubbish and we look at what it is now. We're really proud of what we've done so far, even getting planning permission. So I think we constantly do remind ourselves of that because again, it can get a little bit, a little bit overwhelming and stressful, but that's normal. And we just work as a team to Jack: Completely. Bethany Travis: make sure it's all okay. Jack: Yeah. And you can just listen back to this podcast if you do want to remind that y it's of each other and it's all going it's all going well. But no, that sounds Bethany Travis: Yeah. Jack: amazing. Again, I think you keep coming back to it, that breaking it up into small sort of separate projects within the overall build and taking those wins. Take the win when it when it happens. You get the windows in. Take the win. Enjoy that. Enjoy that moment. There's plenty more to to come, but yeah. Bethany Travis: Yeah. Jack: reflect, take Bethany Travis: Yeah. Jack: time and and sort of reflect. From from your side, because again you are younger builders. Is there anything, is any sort of real bit of advice or sort of insight that you can give people who are younger? 'Cause I think that's the future of the the sort of self-build sort of area, I suppose, the market. And it's getting younger people involved by policy changes, criteria from some of the lenders and sort of schemes that can help. But just from younger people who are maybe just scared to do it. What what could you a bit of advice could you give them? Bethany Travis: Yeah. I would say just have a bit of faith and confidence in yourself because again as I sort of said before we've had a lot of people, companies, businesses that they do think you're not this isn't for you you know you're too young to do this but just back yourself you know do your research. We didn't know what we were doing at the start. had no idea. Gosh, Chris learned to drive a digger a few weeks ago. He's never driven a digger before. Just back yourself and give it a go. And everyone's got their own abilities and their own strengths and weaknesses and just work to that. Like, for example, I'm an accountant, so that side of things works really well for me. And I will give it a go. driving a dumper and things but that's not my strength so we leave that to Chris. So I think work as a team, rely on your strengths and just have a bit of faith in yourself as well because you can do it, we all can do it, it's just hard but if it wasn't hard then everyone would do it wouldn't they? Jack: Again, the theme of this podcast, it comes out now every single time almost is that look, just do it. You are able to do it. It can be done. There is no reason why you you can't do anything within your project. Get the team together. It sounds like you've had an amazing team from architect to civil engineer, from the finance, we can obviously say that 'cause it's our podcast. But do you know those Bethany Travis: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Jack: people who are all invested in your project and do care and I think ultimately Bethany Travis: Yeah, Jack: You know, with your sort of that's it. Bethany Travis: they are your cheerleaders essentially. They are the people that something goes wrong, you call, they are the people that are cheering you on. They are on your side. We did a lot of vetting for everything, architects, civil engineers, structural engineers, mortgages. We vetted everyone and if we didn't feel comfortable or there's something we weren't quite happy with, there's always someone that you will be happy with and that will work with you because you need to trust. you're working with because they're they're they're responsible for you know helping you so. Jack: Yeah, a hundred percent. And so for something so tangible and sort of physical in terms of building a house, it's amazing how much that the feeling for the people you work with and the trust comes into it. Bethany Travis: Completely. Completely. Yeah, absolutely. Jack: Please. Right, let's go for a quick fire round to to test you before we before we finish up. So come on, first first answer that comes to mind. What's the best money you've spent on the project so far? Bethany Travis: Ooh, Velox windows. I'm Jack: Looks. Bethany Travis: excited for them to go in. Jack: what's the worst money? Bethany Travis: worst, paying for a bat survey. I could have done that with a handheld bat noise thing. I could have done that, but we had to pay it, so. Jack: We we have to respect our partners within the industry who do the bat surveys. Bethany Travis: You might have to edit that bit out. Jack: We'll get the legal team on. one thing that you would never skip next time. Bethany Travis: Never skip. going to the building shows that we've been to because that really opened our mind up as to different products, new technologies on the market, different ways of thinking. I think that was really helpful to broaden our horizons rather than just sat looking at the internet, everyone can do that. It's nice to actually speak to people that are specialists in that area. Jack: Brilliant. Yeah, goes to the goes to the shows and so we've got a comp podcast with with Homes by Milestone. We've got the centre up in Matlock that we're the exclusive partner for as well. And go around, feel, look, chat to the experts in in everything from yeah, heat source pumps to floor into whatever you're looking at. It's it really does it really does help. best advice for someone at planning stage. Bethany Travis: planning stage, be considerate of what they are asking of you. A lot of people say, well I'm just going to do it anyway, you know, or you know, it'll be fine and you know, they sort of get their back up against with the planning authority, they're the ones in charge, listen to what they're saying, you know, if you listen to what they're saying, they'll work with you rather than work against you. Jack: Amazing. And this is a little bit sort of self self prophesy prophesizing, I suppose. What's the best advice for someone who's halfway through a build? So someone who's where you are now? What could you what do you want to say to somebody in the same position? What's your what's your bit of advice? Bethany Travis: But that's really tricky. Jack: Maybe maybe change it around Bethany Travis: I say. Jack: for change around for someone if someone who's just about to start. What's what's Bethany Travis: Just about to start. Jack: Yeah. Bethany Travis: I would say plan as much as possible. You'll never be able to plan for everything, but planning does help prevent. So plan as much as possible, a spreadsheet for everything. Yeah, yeah. Jack: There's the accountant coming out. That's love loves a spreadsheet. But no, it it it does pay dividends in the in the end. But no, Bethany, that's an amazing place to leave it, I think. And thank you so much Bethany Travis: Thank you. Jack: for for coming on and being so open. I know you've got a little bit of way to go with your project, but hopefully this will help people starting off and especially young people who are are maybe thinking about sort of doing a project that it's not that scary. You know, get the people, the right people for the right jobs and have some confidence. in yourself, yeah, it it can be done. and look, Bethany Travis: And you will be fine. Jack: we'll have you back on once you've once you're all completed and we can yeah, Bethany Travis: that's really cool. Jack: and we'll we'll see how you get on. So no, thank you so much for joining us. Bethany Travis: no, thank you for having me. It's been great. Thank you. And thank you for all of your support. Jack: Yeah.