Rachel Hester: Hey guys, I just wanted to interrupt quick to give a shout out to our sponsor, the North America Dairy Sheep Association. Natsa is open to any sheep breed or crossed use for milking purposes. Natsa supports dairy shepherds and is elevating dairy standards in sheep in America. Natsa now offers a Milk Star program, has sanctioned dairy sheep shows, and is now offering a breed up program. Want to know more about dairy sheep? Did you know that I write books on the topic? There is my big book, which is published by Sawdust Publishing and is available on my website or Amazon and sawdustpublishing.com. In this volume, The Guide to Homestead Dairy Sheep, you will find everything I wished I knew when I first started raising dairy sheep. I feature other dairy shepherds and go into detail on topics like different breeds for milking, parasite management, milk sharing with lambs. Welcome back to the Woolly Way. So after a run of wonderful interviews, it is just Liv and I today because we figured we would do an episode just kind of giving you all some behind the scenes information about NASA because I've been getting some questions recently as New Shepherds are acquiring lambs or they're going to their first lambing or they're preparing for milking season and ⁓ we've getting some questions about speaker-0: Welcome to the wooly way of podcast specifically for dairy shepherds. is folks wanting to raise sheep for the purpose of harvesting milk. I'm your host, Rachel. Thanks so much for listening to the Woolly Way Podcast. speaker-1: We hope you enjoyed our episode and have gleaned at least one tip you can implement in your flock right away. If you like what you heard, please hit the subscribe button. And if you wouldn't mind, leave us a review. This helps others find our podcast so that they can enjoy learning about dairy sheep along with you. The Woolly Way podcast is a production of Whoopsy Daisy Farm and Crafty Fox Bakers. For updates and information about our show, follow us on Facebook or Instagram. and I'm Liv Fox. We cover all things pertaining to raising dairy sheep here via animal nutrition, housing, health care, lambing tips, cheese making, and even some butchery and fiber arts. speaker-0: After all, if you raise dairy sheep, you are going to have wool, and if your operation is successful, you'll eventually have surplus lambs to decide what to do with. Rachel Hester: You can become a member or get more information by going to the website www.northamericadarysheep.org or you can email the association at northamericadarysheep.com We are so thankful to Natsa for sponsoring this podcast and helping bring more resources to the dairy sheep community. Stay tuned for future podcast episodes NADSA membership and our Milk Star program. So we're going to have our fearless leader, the president of NADSA, break it all down for us because I know enough to be dangerous, but I have yet to actually, I'm a member of NADSA. I have yet to actually register my flock, even though Liv has been graciously reminding me for about a year and a half ⁓ get my sheep in the database. how to set your flock up for the best lambing and therefore milking season possible, I briefly discussed digestion and nutrition of sheep. Since writing this book, folks have asked me questions about more nuanced topics, so I have begun writing ebooks that are topic specific that you can purchase on my website and receive as an instant download and print at your convenience. Currently we have, Bringing Your New Sheep Home. speaker-1: Ethical animal husbandry is the focus here, as well as sustainable agriculture. We want to provide you with the information you need to start and continue your dairy sheep operation in the best way possible for you, your sheep, and the amazing world we live in. speaker-0: Subscribe to our YouTube and email list and look us up at whoopsydaisyfarm.com to find both. Have a particular guest you'd like us to host or a topic you'd like us to cover? Fill out our contact form on our website or shoot us an email at whoopsydaisyfarm.gmail.com. you next time! Liv Fox: You speaker-0: So grab a nice cup of sheet milk and let's dive in. Liv Fox: poking and prodding you. Rachel Hester: which explains in detail our step-by-step method of introducing new dairy sheep onto your homestead and getting them used to you as their shepherd. Since there are currently no dairy specific hair breed sheep available, dairy shepherds will have to shear their sheep annually and then decide what to do with their wool. Wool has a lot of misconceptions surrounding it and I want to help shepherds understand that it is a commodity and not a burden. So I wrote my other ebook, Five Uses of Wool in the Homestead, which is designed to give you practical ideas where we talk to NADSA board members about what NADSA is trying to accomplish in America for the dairy sheep community. So, okay, so Liv, gonna, start with, let's just start with NADSA membership real quick. Say I am Josephine Schmuckatelli Homesteader, I want Dairy Sheep, I think joining NADSA would be a good idea. First of all, why is it a good idea to join NADSA? Just for giggles and kicks. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so first of all, membership is $25 and that gets you a full year membership from starting January 1st through December 31st. Folks who start joining in like August, they actually get a pro rated membership. you're not just getting four months of membership and then you have to pay again. You actually get, Rachel Hester: on how to utilize this amazing product around your homestead the second you shear it off your sheep. The ebooks are only available on my website at www.wipsydaisyfarm.com Okay. Liv Fox: what would it, 16 months of membership. So you would go through the rest of that calendar year and then the entire full year, the following year for $25 because we don't want people to be like, well, I might as well wait four months to join before I do anything. And for that $25, you get a welcome letter. Rachel Hester: Right. Right. Liv Fox: basically thanking you and it gives you your farm prefix that you have selected so that way you know membership number, ⁓ is that's all information you want to then include on work order form anytime you're membership or registering sheep. ⁓ And also in that letter, you get a friendly reminder ⁓ of listening to podcast called The Woolly Way, which ⁓ you're listening right Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. That's your gear. Yeah. Liv Fox: ⁓ so has sponsored, helped sponsored the podcast. ⁓ and so that's why when you listen, you hear a commercial. Yes. Yeah. Rachel Hester: Yeah. It wouldn't be here if it weren't for NADSA. mean, right, right. Yeah, yeah. NADSA, this podcast is literally only possible because NADSA has sponsored it. which we are both very grateful to NADSA for. Liv Fox: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then there's also a discount code for your lovely book. ⁓ So that's all included in there. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm, which ironically people People still don't know that I wrote a book like they listen to my podcast and they still somehow miss that I wrote a book I'm like, there's a freaking commercial every single episode that I wrote a book. I don't know how that works, but Just in case you'll miss it. I wrote a book It's called the the the to homestead dairy sheep ⁓ and it's put out by sawdust publishing If so a little bit of housekeeping with that if you want to buy the book if you go to sawdust Publishing's website or Amazon ⁓ Natsuko does not work on either of those websites It works on my personal website, which is whoopsie daisy farm.com. I Currently list my book as out of stock just because whenever I have inventory people buy it from me and not my publisher if You become a medsa member and you want to get a copy of my book and it says out of stock all you need do is just email me ⁓ and I will list it as in stock and you can go ahead and buy it and you will get that discount ⁓ and that probably a way janky way to do things, but I am ⁓ horrifically technologically challenged ⁓ ⁓ But ⁓ in the meantime, if you want to get a copy and you want to use NASA discounts code, if you go on my website, it will listed as out of stock. Just me. I'll list it for stock, can use your discount code, CuckooCooChoo. And part of the reason behind that is in order to get inventory on my shelves, the publisher has to ship it to me. So I try ⁓ to pick up several cases when I'm at homesteading conferences and I have a huge amount of inventory, I'll go ahead and list it. But if it's like right now where ⁓ it's been a homestead festival derse for a minute, my inventory kind of low. I'm trying to keep that inventory for more international orders because I do all the shipping internationally. Liv Fox: That's fair. Yeah. Rachel Hester: and the people who aren't members of NADSA can just go over to Amazon or the publisher, but if you're a NADSA member, again, I have a book and you should buy it and I will give you a discount, just email Liv Fox: you Rachel Hester: me, Liv Fox: ⁓ one of the Biggest reasons that Natsa even formed was because when started going down bunny trail ⁓ of looking for dairy sheep, it became evident right from the get-go that there was no out there keeping track of genetics. ⁓ So like there was no breeder directory directly available for folks that were looking for dairy sheep from small flocks or ⁓ you could ⁓ use Rachel Hester: Yeah. No. ⁓ Liv Fox: For like commercial flocks or their members that were there they would be listed ⁓ seems like not everyone was really good at responding if reached out to them ⁓ and there weren't pedigrees being recorded or tracked there and for myself I have a animal science background That was really frustrating and I was like this has to change because also I don't Rachel Hester: Yeah. Liv Fox: Probably a lot of folks have, I would assume have had a similar run-in. When you would find someone with dairy sheep, you would ask like about the pedigree and they would know who the dam and sire were. So they would know who mom and dad were, but they, you know, they had purchased them from someone else and those records had gotten lost. So there's just like thousands of sheep. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Or in my case, I don't even know the damn entire. I just know that mom was Icelandic. Dad was a wassy in East region purportedly. And I got a picture of him. He looks kind of catotony to me, you know, and and all I have to go off is pictures and the person I bought him from, you know, where I was, you know, I trust the person. It's just the record keeping just wasn't a thing. And Liv Fox: Yeah! Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Just their word, word of mouth. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: you know, because why would anyone at that point? Like there was no organization, there was no incentive or motivation. It was just, we didn't know where to go. We just got sheep and we're thankful we had the right genetics, ⁓ unquote. so yeah, anyway, and then that's, that was bored and we all went, thank God. ⁓ So. Liv Fox: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, and I think part of the problem was dairy sheep, especially like at a smaller level, not at a commercial scale. They were like just these little pockets that most people were like, you know, I'm breeding so that way I can have milk at every year. And they just kind of got used to being the black sheep of the industry, if you will, ⁓ keeping track of those genetic records weren't a huge priority. Rachel Hester: Right. Right. Right. Liv Fox: fast forward you know now where you know a dairy sheep is very friendly to us. Yeah, yeah, you know they're very friendly for small acres. Great for if you have children around versus cattle, you know you don't have to worry about them getting like seriously hurt. They could still get hurt but seriously harmed like you would have to worry about with cattle. So just there's a need that you know and a lot of people they do want to know. Rachel Hester: We're the cool kids now, apparently. right. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: what lineage their sheep are coming from. And I think that's great, especially when it comes to production records. So NADSA has the database and we are recording all that. And at this time, are, we have 58 paid members and we are just like 15 sheep shy of 400 sheep registered. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: Which is pretty impressive because as it stands at this time, our two year anniversary is coming up. It's on St. Patty's day. So March 17th, to have that many paid members who keep renewing year after year, and then have that many sheep registered. I think that's really cool. ⁓ and we will ⁓ sheep. If you don't know who mom and dad are, that's okay. We will still register them. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Liv Fox: we're gonna put, you know, unknown ram, unknown ewe on the paperwork, which the thought is then moving forward, all of their offspring, it's just gonna keep filling ⁓ the backside. So eventually there's gonna be a lot more sheep out there that have a quote unquote full pedigree. ⁓ Now we're not assigning. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. All right. Right. Right. Well, and the thing too is that is like the to establish a pedigree doesn't take that long. mean, I have, you know, my my herd queen, she's the one who I don't know what her parents names were. I just know mom was Icelandic, dad was East region Awasi. You know, her I've read her daughter and then her, her I've read her granddaughter. So I mean, I've got four generations within just a couple of, you know, I've had dairy sheep for this is my sixth. Liv Fox: Mm-mm. Rachel Hester: So I mean within six years, I have four generations of sheep and I can track that pedigree. you know why that's important for me is when I have people coming wanting to buy stock from my farm, they typically will ask ⁓ much milk can I expect per day and for how long. And because I have that all recorded, I can say, you know, here's what to expect. Here's how resistant this line is to like parasites and hoof rot and diseases and all that kind of stuff. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: But, know, like if, you know, I get sick or whatever and then Kyle's wanting to sell sheep, if I keep all that in my head, like he's not really gonna know what to tell a customer. But if I say, well, call Liv, she's got all that paperwork. You she can call you for this day. What do I do? And it's a very fluid transition, you know? And like, you know, we've got another shepherd here in Kentucky where she's worked on her dairy sheep flock for I think 20 years. But I don't know that anything. Liv Fox: right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: reported. And so, you know, when we when we talk about things, you know, she tests her flock, like she's not a bad shepherd, it's just the actual lines are not as established. And so, you know, she's she's talked to me, and she's like, you know, my my kid doesn't have any interest in all of this. And so it's like, ⁓ when that flock needs to go be liquidated, if people are interested in dairy sheep, having that record ⁓ a smooth transition is just going to be beneficial because, ⁓ know, as things are right now, Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Rachel Hester: We NASA are working on a breed registry for East Frasians, which we'll get to in a hot minute. We talked about other breeds. There now is an American Awasi Breeders Association that we don't oversee, but we know they're there and they know we're here and all that's wonderful. Actually, I think that's from their board on this podcast, season one, but I digress. Anyway, so okay. Liv Fox: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes, you did, Misty. Rachel Hester: there's an Awasi Breed Association. Now we're working on these freezians. We know some lacon genetics are being brought in, but as it stands today, as you know, March of 2026, there aren't the Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: the Wasis are the only breed that has an actual association for that breed. still when you go on the Homestead Dairy Sheep Board ⁓ Facebook or even our board, the majority of people in America who are milking sheep ⁓ not using purebreds. And ⁓ a people in New Zealand, they're intentionally cross breeding because they have found with their education whatever's... Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Correct. Rachel Hester: that having crossbreeds work better for them as far as hardiness and mothering and getting a good meat carcass afterwards. so, right, exactly. so, know, and some people, like I really want a flock that has a decent wool harvest, you know, and there's a lot of misinformation about what makes a decent wool harvest and all that. And I will not get out that soap box. But all that being said, ⁓ know, when, as we're, ⁓ we're trying to establish dairy sheep in America, go ahead. Liv Fox: They're getting that hybrid vigor. Mm-hmm. Yes, so... Yeah, so with this database, we're able to keep track of pedigrees. And so when you're talking with a shepherd about purchasing and if fiber is also something that's equally important to you with as is milk, then you can see, you know, talk to other management shepherds ⁓ ⁓ that you're making a good purchase and then know what the pedigree is. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Liv Fox: The pedigree isn't even a, you know, just trying to be a purist on any specific breed or anything like that. It's just, it's so helpful. If you end up finding a sheep that you really like, well, then you can look for more of it. Whether it's half siblings or, you know, if you get real fancy embryo transfers or some rams get collected for frozen semen, you know, it's, it's a tool that is something you won't ever regret. Rachel Hester: data. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: ⁓ and you get a physical certificate in the mail. And one of the things on our certificate on top of like the pedigree, you get, you know, the member that owns it, the breeder, on the backside is transfer of ownership. So if this sheep has been sold for various reasons, you can kind of see too, like what other places has it lived at, Rachel Hester: like, we'll talk to people who where this ⁓ talks the farm the sheep born at to see what other And so having, again, ⁓ that database, like you're saying, with the will help you if you have to do that. Liv Fox: Right. Right. Well, and like you mentioned earlier, shepherds tend to like remember things in their brain, but God forbid anything ever happens to that shepherd. If your family or you don't have somebody else that's equally involved that knows the history of your flock, we stand to lose all of that information. ⁓ like, do want to keep going backwards? I would like to see the dairy sheep industry like Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. and then. Right. Liv Fox: slingshot itself forward, essentially. ⁓ So NADSA's basically, they have volunteered as tribute to be central location to house these records for folks that own dairy sheep. We don't care if it's commercial dairies or just have a couple at your home. ⁓ We not care. ⁓ And cost to register sheep and transfer them is relatively Rachel Hester: Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Liv Fox: I think inexpensive considering some of the associations I've been in. I was just gonna look here. So like currently our annual adult membership is $25. If we have youth members, they are more than welcome to join and they can register sheep in their own name. That's $15 for a year. And the age for youth is up to 19 years of age and your age is determined by how old you are on June 1st for the year. U registration is $10, Ram registration is $15. And then you are registering multiple sheep and it doesn't matter if you have like two ⁓ U's and Rams, ⁓ as long as you're registering six sheep or more, then you get a discount. ⁓ So at that point then registering your U's is $8 a U and then registering your Rams is $12 a Ram. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Liv Fox: And then you purchase someone who's already registered with NADSA, you could have them transferred into your name. ⁓ And that's $7. And if sometimes certificates get damaged, know, somebody spilled coffee on it or whatnot, it's $7 for us to reissue a certificate. ⁓ And like I said, I think the certificates look pretty cool. They're pretty ⁓ legit. So. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. I think they do too. They look very official. Liv Fox: So yeah, so that's like the big thing, the big reason why NADSA is around and why I do feel like it's truly beneficial to become a member and then enter your sheep into that database. ⁓ And then something new that we have launched for 2026 is we are offering quarterly webinars where we talk to ⁓ like, Rachel Hester: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: someone who specializes about a certain topic. ⁓ And so we actually just had our first one with Dr. Bain. It was actually last night. We record them. So these webinars are only offered to our paid members. And if you can't make it to the live webinar, because the perk of being there live is you can ask questions at the end of the presentation. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: ⁓ and hear other people's questions because maybe somebody else is going to have a question that hadn't even thought of until they asked it and you're like, ⁓ yeah, I would have never thought about that. So that's the part of being there for the live webinars. You you have the advantage of being able to ask questions to the professional and ⁓ those answered. We record them. So if you're not able to make it, no worries. ⁓ not missing out. We then ⁓ upload Rachel Hester: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Thanks. Liv Fox: to YouTube, but they are uploaded as a private video. So what that means is only folks who are invited to the link will be able to view it. ⁓ And it's one of those things that members join throughout the year, you will also be included in that. So you're still not gonna miss out if say you didn't join until today, but the webinar was yesterday, you will get access to all of our webinars. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: that have already happened. So it seems like there's a lot of interest in that. So that I feel is a perk. Like for $25 a year, you're going to get access to four new webinars where we meet with professionals, ask questions for $25. cheaper than Netflix. Rachel Hester: Yeah, I mean, and the webinar we had last night, I mean, it was like a really good dairy sheep, you nutritional thing. mean, if you were going to go like in order to get that little bit of education, like typically you'd have to spend a lot more money and have to travel there in person and get a hotel and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I think, I think it's, it's. Liv Fox: Yeah, yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Rachel Hester: It's so reasonable, it's almost ridiculous. Just for the webinars alone, you know, it's worth it. So not to mention all of the database that, you know, we're trying to establish that, you know, you can access to or access to knowing where other members are so that you can get new stock for your farm or sell stock and all that RASMATAS. So. Liv Fox: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yes. And so then another thing going this kind of it ties directly into the registry database is, OK, so now we have these sheep that we we are keeping track of their pedigree. OK, that's fine and dandy. Why? What's another reason why I would want to keep track of the pedigree? So in 2025, NADSA launched our Milk Star program. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean. Liv Fox: So basically this is a smaller, so if you have done a Milk Star program with Dairy Goats, it's very similar. it's of, for lack of better terms, putting your money where your mouth is. So instead of saying, know, my you, she produces X amount of gallons, which, let's. ⁓ Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: let's be real technically in the milk world, we go by weight. But for those of us who do record milking weights, we have a pretty good idea of like, you know, four pounds of milk is about a half gallon for dairy sheep. know, like you'll get to the point where you kind of know, okay, they're talking ⁓ gallons. So I would ⁓ it to be about this much in weight. Rachel Hester: Okay. Okay. Liv Fox: And the whole reason for those of you who don't know why milk is measured by weight and not volume is because a long time ago when milk was being sold, was being sold by volume. And unfortunately, just like ⁓ anything in the world, ⁓ have folks that aren't honest ⁓ they were adding water to the milk to increase their volume. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: but then it's going to decrease the weight. So the way that the dairy producers got around that was, okay, you're getting paid by weight, not by volume. So the Milk Star program a way to ⁓ that. you ⁓ enroll your, I say flock, you don't have to enroll your whole flock in the Milk Star program. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. All Liv Fox: you do with with Dairy Goats, ⁓ supposed to. With we understand that, like you have a couple that you really like, you really want to see like kind of dabble in it to see if it's ⁓ worth the ⁓ money. That's You know, we are not going to require that you have to enroll every you on your farm in the Milk Star program. Rachel Hester: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Liv Fox: So in form is available on our website. If you want to enroll, you do have to be a member of NADSA in order to also then enroll your sheep in the Milk Star program. And it's a form where you select like, I'm lamb or I'm milking a day. ⁓ You can do either way. ⁓ And so you would mark that on the form. You're going to record what Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: D.H.I.A. facility you are using to send your milk samples to because you get to pick who you want to use. I'm going to say that again. You get to pick who you want to use. NADSA is not going to say who you have to use. If you want to ship it across the country, you are more than welcome to. It's going to add to your expense. But if you have a lab you really like, that's fine. You can use them. If you got a lab just down the road and you can personally drive it. Rachel Hester: Mm. Mm-hmm. Back up a minute. Back up just a minute. just I have no idea what you're talking about. What is a DHI facility? Liv Fox: Yeah, so your DHI facilities are going to do the testing and then will put the results in a format and send it to you. So it's another association. We're testing the milk, yes. Rachel Hester: So we're testing the milk. Right, testing the milk. So we're harvesting the milk from the sheep and then we're sending the milk from that sheep to a facility, a sample, and we're sending a sample of that milk to a facility to test for butterfat content, sugar content, I'm assuming proteins. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Samples. Yes. Yep. Hmm protein, your somatic cell count, your SCC, you do it ⁓ a month. So it's not every day you're sending off the sample and you're not sending a half gallon. It's ⁓ a plastic vial that holds less than 10 mLs in it. You get vials that have a pellet or no pellet, that pellet that is in it, which I do recommend that you get it. I think facilities just automatically default that way. That is a preservative. So it will ⁓ give some more time in the shipping process because you do need to ship it with an ice pack and everything because you know, if you don't, then bacteria is going to start growing and stuff like that and it's going to affect your testing results. So that will help preserve that milk a little longer. Rachel Hester: Okay. Liv Fox: but ⁓ going to give you the results back. And then what they do is are going to, when you submit your milk samples, you're also going to submit your ⁓ own personal So, ⁓ let me hold up here. So at this time, Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: If you guys want to see what I'm holding up, this was available on YouTube. So I do advise that you go visit YouTube so you can kind of see what I'm talking about. And if anyone needs help creating this spreadsheet, can you mine. I will obviously omit my flocks information. ⁓ Yeah, but it's going to have your name is the herd, your NADSA membership number, and then your herd code. Now your herd code. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yeah. Liv Fox: you will get from your selected testing facility and you're going to have to take what's called a supervisor test. So basically it's a test. It ranges between 25 to $50. It's usually good for two to three years. Basically it goes through to make sure that you understand how things need to be done so that way you're not fudging numbers. At this time we do not require Rachel Hester: Yes. next. Liv Fox: a different milk tester to come to your farm on testing days because there's so few of us that are interested in doing this, but we're hoping this changes. currently we are, NADSA is allowing own flock owners to test their own sheep and we're trusting them to be honest. I think it's going to be pretty easy to see like if somebody's like pressing the limits or in being dishonest. Yeah. Rachel Hester: Yeah. ⁓ Really fudging it. Right. Liv Fox: So you get your herd code number and then over here like you're gonna have your sheep's name index number which can be whatever number you want. ⁓ advise you do is just use your sheep's registration number from NADSA. I also have included that so it's kind of ⁓ repeat. You want your sheep's date of birth, their breed. Just don't put percentages. East region cross, East region look Rachel Hester: Mm. Yeah. Liv Fox: lacone cross, like whatever it is, like just put that. You don't need to put breed percentages because I'm going to be honest, your DHIA facility, they don't care. If ⁓ you know... Rachel Hester: Yeah. And that's all on the registration anyway. It doesn't, it's not really, it's not really necessary on these Milk Star spreadsheet for the testing facility, but we'll keep track of that with our membership. Yeah. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm, yes, yep. No, it's for NADSA. Yeah, it's more for NADSA. Yeah. And so then you would have the SIR, his registration number, if he's registered. And if you know it, if you don't, that's fine. You leave it blank. As you can see, I have several here that I don't have. Their SIRs are not registered. DAM registration number. So I have a few. So, you know, I have daughters that I'm going to do, DAM and daughters, which I think is going to be really cool. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: And then their lactation number. So how many times have they freshened? Is it their first time? You're going to put one. If it's their third lambing, it's their third. Even if you've never did the Milk Star program before, that doesn't matter. It's not how many years have they been in the Milk Star program. It's how many times have they freshened in their lifetime? And then you're going to, you would put ⁓ their freshening date. So when they lamb, Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Gotcha. you. Liv Fox: And at the end, when you're all done, dry off date. So when are you drying your use off? Because what this DHA facility is going to do, they use an algorithm. So we're sending a milk sample for these use once a month. And because they're not all freshening at the same time, like it, it's going to be different. But the cool thing about this algorithm is figures out ⁓ to calculate how many pounds of milk and what the components of that milk have been for that entire month. So the more frequently you test, the more honed in that information is going to be. ⁓ And then off to the side here, this is like the information. So like this information here is not going to change throughout the year. This information over here is going to, and that's going to be your morning milk test time, and then the weight. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: So you will have a bucket and you have to have a calibrated scale from the DHII facility that you're using. You don't have to purchase a scale every year. The scale that you purchase, you can send it in and pay a fee to have it recalibrated every year. And the purchase of a scale, it's like $30. And I believe the calibration fee is like $10 or $20. It's relatively inexpensive, but they want to make sure that you're getting accurate weights every time. Rachel Hester: Okay. Okay. Liv Fox: You can hand milk or machine milk. That part doesn't matter. ⁓ You fill that, will be on the paperwork as well. ⁓ from your milking, you're going have, if you're, ⁓ machine milk. So I'm going to transfer milk to a bucket and then weigh it with my calibrated scale. And I'm going to record for my morning milk weight in there. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Thank Liv Fox: And then I'm going to take a sample of that milk, make sure that it, you know, like you don't have to like shake it up or anything, but just like make sure it's well milked, mixed. So that way, like your cream and everything and your proteins are all mixed together. You're going to want to take a sample out to fill that vial up halfway because that's our first milking. And then we're going to wait until our PM and we're going to write down our PM milking time. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: basically rinse and repeat. So we are going to, after we milk her out, I'm going to then transfer that milk, because I used a milk machine, I wasn't hand milking, into my bucket. I'm going to weigh it, and then I'm going to record the weight of that milking as well. And then make sure that that milk is all mixed together well again, take a sample, add that to my sample from earlier in the day. So that way I have a sample for Rachel Hester: Any. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: the entire day. Does that make sense? Rachel Hester: Okay, yeah. Yeah, so you're mixing more data when you send it in. ⁓ Liv Fox: So, and then that sample, And so then that milk is what we are then sending to our milk testing facility that we have chosen. each facility, the cost for testing milk, ⁓ gonna be different. You might have like a setup fee. And then after that, it's gonna cost you so much per you per month. And you do, there is a fee even when they're dried off, but ⁓ don't have to send in empty vials, obviously. But honestly, it's not that bad of a fee and like less than a couple dollars per sheet, ⁓ is another reason why we're not like, have to milk test everyone because, you know, we understand folks are on a budget, but there are folks out there who really want to find out this information. So at the end of the lactation season, you would then submit those records to NADSA to be eligible for Milk Star Awards. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: and the different categories listed on our website. I do apologize. I don't have those right in front of me, ⁓ basically it says like how many days you have to get X amount of pounds and there's different. there's, I think there's one for like 180 days. There's one for 270 days. Now, if your sheep is an overachiever, that's what we like to see. That's what we want to hear. And she's able to reach ⁓ Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Liv Fox: Milkstar standard or like a goal in less time than what's listed. That's fine. That's she's not gonna she doesn't have to do it in that time for like by a hundred and eighty days like this is where she needs to be at. She's an overachiever and she reaches that before that hundred days. She's still eligible for Milkstar awards. ⁓ And so then what Natsa will do after you have submitted your you's total production for the year if she's eligible Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and Liv Fox: for an award, we are going to make that notation on her certificate in her registered name. And there's a YouTube video that I have done. It's probably been about a year ago now. It's on YouTube under the North America Dairy Sheep Association YouTube channel to go over the Milk Star program in further detail, but it'll show like what it looks like. It's going to be M Star. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think so. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: for a U, star, B for bronze. ⁓ That will get added to our name and we can reissue a certificate. So what's gonna eventually happen is not only do we have these sheep with pedigrees, we're gonna have sheep that have these fancy codes in their name that's going to alert you ⁓ their milk production is. So it's the perfect way to put your money where your mouth is. And one thing I should mention, Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: because I feel like a lot of us choose to lamb share. We milk once a day until we wean the lambs. ⁓ So if we're lamb sharing, you can still participate. So what you would do is, so separate your lambs in the morning, ⁓ that evening, keep them separated overnight too, milk the ewes in the morning. So they are going to be off mom ⁓ 24 hours. ⁓ after that, Rachel Hester: Yeah. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: milking, then they get to go back with mom. So ⁓ by the time they're a month old, they're ⁓ okay to do that. And after have freshened, you don't want to start doing the Milk Star program. The soon as you want to do it is two weeks ⁓ after because we have that transition milk period. I encourage three four weeks after freshening. ⁓ That way don't to worry about Rachel Hester: Mm. Liv Fox: the colostrum still, you know, being mixed in with that transition milk basically is what we tend to call it. and then like I said, you're just milk star testing once a month. You can do it more frequently if you want, but you're typically not going to have the results back quick enough. And NADSA is not requiring, like you have to have so many tests also to be eligible for the awards. Like I said, if you got a you that's a rock star that can Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: reach an achievement level within three, four months, we're gonna notate that. ⁓ So it's a really cool thing. And if you're like me and you kind of nerd out over like genetics and then seeing like what the benefits of those genetics are, it's essentially giving you an estimated breeding but just for milk. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Yeah. test. Hmm. Liv Fox: for milk. It's not going to go like for parasite resistance Or like that. It's ⁓ just milk, which if you're not at a commercial dairy level. That's what most of us want to And and it's going to a great way to say like hey this person's honest they're telling like what they're telling me it's true or like maybe they're fudging a little bit because Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Liv Fox: Don't get me wrong, I do love social media, but social media can also make it really easy for folks to be dishonest. And I do have a problem with people being Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. ⁓ all that being said, you know, if I'm keeping these records, I can, if I have those records of like, okay, this ram makes really good dairy sheep, though he's a Gulf Coast, it's a breed, it's a heritage breed, it's not for milk. ⁓ And when I cross him with these ⁓ other breeds, like ⁓ the Owasse East Friesians, those make really good Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: ⁓ Milkers when I cross them with like a border luster that that didn't that didn't do what I was wanting it to do Yeah Right, but I mean when I went and felt her utter though, like there's a decent amount of milk in there You know, this is her first freshening. So to have You know to have something like the milk star program where you know if I wanted to cross her with You know someone else and see what her her genetics do down the line Liv Fox: Yeah, you're like, eeeh? Right! Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: you know, it's a more educated guess for me to do that with a database like what we're trying to establish with NADSA so that the odds are more in my favor to produce the kind of dairy sheep I want to make on my farm. ⁓ know, and even if you're not playing with cross-breed genetics, go ahead. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a way to hopefully help you assist in making selections on who gets bred to who. You know, like because. Rachel Hester: Right. And even when you get the right sheep, like if you get an East Frisian, because I mean, there's East Frisians and there's these East Frisians and there's East Frisians, And there's East Frisians ⁓ ⁓ were raised, ⁓ know, very, ⁓ trying not to stomp on people's toes, regenerative agriculture, eat like they're trying to keep them more grass fed. ⁓ then there's other East Frisians where I've seen people literally take, you know, coffee cans and just throw corn at the whole flock and they can eat whatever they want. Liv Fox: No. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: all that to say, I mean, there's some East Asians where they will produce a gallon a day and need to know that they're producing a gallon a day because you need to know, one to that much milk and two, you know, what's in that milk? it high butter fat? Is it low butter fat? and then three, do you need to feed that little sheep so that she doesn't die and like cannibalize herself making that much ⁓ on the flip Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: There's really good yeast frusions. They've got great wool quality. They make good carcass weight. They're parasite resistant and they make a quart of milk per day. And people get really disappointed because, they're yeast frusions and ⁓ got meat crosses that make more than that. And so ⁓ really, we don't right now have a way to say, I can prove that my animal is going to give you this much milk ⁓ I can tell you how I've raised them. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: And that's how this happens. And that's not, that's not to say Shepherds are a bunch of gypsy tramps and thieves. We're gonna, gonna lie to you, but I mean, if we don't have a record. Liv Fox: We all have different management practices. And then, yeah, and if you don't have records. Rachel Hester: Right, right, right. And we all have, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I am so like preaching at myself right now because I literally, Kyle told me this year, he's like, you have to at least write down who was bred to who and who made who. Cause I mean, like everything's in my head as right now. like Kyle got on me the other day. He's like, I don't know. I don't remember. Liv Fox: Yeah. Rachel Hester: which Ram went with which you and made which baby, because we were talking about this one you and he's like, well, we're gonna, we're gonna have to sell her because she's too inbred. I was like, no, no, she is Hansel's daughter. And he's like, I don't know that you have to write this down because I don't even know, like who's a brother and sister at this point. So, you know, it's not, again, it's not that we're a bunch of liars. It's just, there's no one stop even in our house, let alone in our country to go, okay, this is who is who. Liv Fox: Hmm Right. Mm-hmm. Well... Rachel Hester: This is how we keep genetic lines. When we don't have a huge amount of genetic diversity in our country right now due to just limited genes, do just for the sake of not inbreeding want to know which farm to get replacement stud from, or is it worth investing in an imported ram or an AI lamb and that kind of stuff. Liv Fox: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So gonna throw this out there. I am not totally against inbreeding, but you do have to be mindful of the inbreeding coefficient. ⁓ And so you wanna make sure that it doesn't get too high, because if it does, ⁓ probably not gonna just see, you're not just honing in the good things, you're gonna start honing in the bad things too. ⁓ So. Rachel Hester: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. And records help you hedge your bets on which way it's going to So. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Yes, I ⁓ say and confess this myself, when my flock was small, when I only had three ewes lambing every year, it was really easy for me to mentally keep track of, ⁓ this lamb is out of so-and-so and by so-and-so. Real Now that I have, and my is still relatively small, especially like compared to like commercial dairy level, Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right, right, right. Liv Fox: but now when I get like between 30 and 40 lambs that hit the ground, sometimes, I mean, I put tag, like when I was small, like I didn't put tags in ears right away because I knew who belonged to who. But now that I have so many, like, tags are going in because I can keep track of who your mom is because I do notate tags in my phone and who they belong to. So that way. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Liv Fox: I can keep track, if I'm like, that lamb looks a little punky or something, like I can whip open my phone real quick, because I always have my phone on me and go to my notes and see, okay, who's your mom? Who's your sibling? Are they okay? Or do they seem a little off too? But yeah, as you, if, if you grow, it gets really challenging to just mentally that. ⁓ And so we, Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Liv Fox: You don't have to mentally remember that. Let NADSA mentally remember that because we have a computer and it's backed up in two different places. So, you know, God forbid anything ever happens. The records are not going to be lost, but let NADSA, let us help you is basically what we're here for. Rachel Hester: Let us. Right? Right. Right, I just got sheep this year. I got two ewes and a ram in a weather. is no way I will get, listen here, young grasshopper, everyone talks about chicken mass. ⁓ Everyone talks about chicken mass. one talks about sheep mass. ⁓ And guarantee you, ⁓ if you do not decide within six months you hate sheep with passion, Liv Fox: It escalates quickly. It escalates so quickly. Rachel Hester: Sheep math will happen and you really, really, really, really need to write stuff down. I'm pointing one finger at you and four back at myself because I really need to write this crap down. Yeah. Liv Fox: Hmm? You Yes, yes. And so that is like the big goal of Natsa a big perk of Natsa. was like, yeah, you have to pay a little bit for it, but honestly, you're not putting in all the work in recording it. Cost wise, it's pennies the dollar. And then I go in and because I run the database, I enter like the more information you give me. Rachel Hester: It's not that much. Right. Yeah. Liv Fox: I enter all of that information. I don't just pick and choose what I'm gonna put in there because there have been times where that, when somebody else is registering sheep and I'm like, I recognize that name. sure enough, they're related. ⁓ that has happened more times than not. ⁓ I'm to the point where I recognize a lot of sheep names, like enough to be like, I'm pretty sure that sheep's registered. And so I go on the computer and look, sure enough, there it is. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Hey there, Richie. Liv Fox: And I have had people comment, like, how do you remember that? I'm like, it's a gift, I guess. Like, I can't remember my grocery list if I don't write it down, but I can remember dairy sheep genetics. yes. Rachel Hester: We remember the important things. Liv Fox: Yeah. Rachel Hester: ⁓ but but can keep track of sheep. We can keep track of farm names. We keep track of the important things. That's the whole point of that. So anyway, ⁓ so yeah. Liv Fox: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, it is. the whole, like the board members, like we are, we are, we're real people. know, most of us have off the farm eight to five jobs. You know, our dairy sheep operation is our bad habit. And if we don't work off the farm, dairy sheep are still our bad habit. ⁓ you know, like, Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Right? Liv Fox: I do try to make a conscious effort to make sure that the database is getting updated. I try really hard to do it once a week. Sometimes the wheels fall off the wagon just in my own personal life, whether I get sick, my daughter gets sick, family member gets sick, ⁓ but it is for sure getting updated once a month. And I just, don't like Rachel Hester: Right. Right. Liv Fox: to have the paperwork just piling up because that just causes me stress and anxiety because I know everybody is like, hey, I want to see my certificate. And I get that. ⁓ But we are, we're a member ran organization. We are a ⁓ we are a legit nonprofit. ⁓ Nobody is getting paid. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: All the money goes right back into the association. To get our association started, we actually, the board members, we ponied up money to kick us off. That money has since been given back to the board members, ⁓ we're a nonprofit. Nobody's getting paid. ⁓ We're involved because we love dairy sheep and we want other people to love dairy sheep. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In his Mm-hmm. Liv Fox: we want folks to know that you're not in this alone. If you have questions, you have concerns. By all means, reach out and ask. If I don't know, I might know somebody else who knows ⁓ somebody else might know who else to ask if they don't even know. ⁓ ⁓ helps with networking. ⁓ I say all this because we do have a Facebook group on Facebook. It's North America Dairy Sheep. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Liv Fox: Anyone can join that as long as you answer the questions, anyone can join that. And we do like put like news and updates on there. We do also have our website that we, I would say are much better at maintaining than our Facebook group, because anyone can ask questions in our Facebook group and anyone can respond as long as you're a group member. But so, because we have over a thousand people that are in our Facebook group, which is fine. You know, you're, you're. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's a pretty it's a fairly active group. Liv Fox: It's a very active group, but you technically are not a member of North America Dairy Sheep Association. You have to fill out the form and submit your $25 to become a true member to receive all these perks that are included with membership. I just, sometimes I think how that comes out. Yes. Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. All right. Right. just to reiterate, anyone can join the Facebook group. can join the Facebook group. Joining the Facebook group does not make you a member of NADSA. You can go on the NADSA Facebook board. You can ask your questions. think pretty much every post that is not made by an admin and ⁓ board members are admins of that Facebook page. Pretty any post has to be approved by a board member. Liv Fox: Correct. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: So, and we do that just because number one, scammers are so prevalent right now. I mean, we're not trying to be gatekeepers. It's mainly to keep scammers and trolls on the down low, just because all of us are sick of the trolls at this point everywhere. And then also do ⁓ because you have to be a member in order to post animals for sale of NADS. You have to be a member of NADS in order to post your animals. ⁓ you have to be a member if you're looking for animals? Like can you do an ISO if you're not a member? Liv Fox: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Usually we don't promote because then ⁓ you have potential non-members saying like, hey, like I've got sheep here. So yes, you have to be a paid member to ⁓ be to ⁓ list available sheep in our Facebook group. If you send that to ⁓ the email, that's a free perk for our website. Like we have a sale page. Rachel Hester: Okay. Okay, okay, yeah. Okay. Liv Fox: and it will be listed on there. And then you're just responsible to follow up and say like, hey, like that sheep is no longer available. And like there's. Rachel Hester: Right, right. So anyone can go on the NADSA website and see what's listed for sale though. Like if you aren't a member of NADSA, you for whatever reason are not interested in joining NADSA right now, but you'd like to get Dairy Sheep, you can scuttle over to our website, look at the classifieds there and contact those sellers. That's not a problem. We don't monitor that. So. Liv Fox: Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Correct. Correct. I'll be honest though, typically they get sold so fast that not always a lot on the website. But ⁓ yeah, but let NADSA ⁓ be the record keeper and keep track of pedigrees, ⁓ milk production records. ⁓ Let us offer educational tools to you via this lovely podcast, Discount Code for Rachel's Book. Rachel Hester: Right, Liv Fox: letting us do quarterly webinars. And then, you know, we have fun stuff like dairy sheep shows and we're hoping to start expanding that. we need some more involvement with members across the U.S. to like expand where our sanctioned shows are at because Liv Fox cannot traipse the countryside. ⁓ Rachel Hester: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Liv Fox: And honestly, we've gotten to the point where we've had a few ⁓ members aren't on the board reach out and say like, hey, ⁓ what can I do to become more active? We've gotten to the point where we have grown enough. We're going to start having committees and you can on a committee without being a board member and be active. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Liv Fox: in a supportive role of NADSA. we honestly, we have grown so much. We are to that point. There are different things, different tasks that I would love to be able to like clear off my plate and like punt it to someone else and like have them oversee it and then just communicate like, hey, I need help with this or what do you think about this? And those people who are on those committees are going to be invited to come to our board meetings. So that way we're all in communication with each other. ⁓ Rachel Hester: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Liv Fox: I just think that's really cool and exciting. Like it's the same going to be the same group of seven people coming to these meetings. There's going to be new people with new energy and new ideas. And we're to the point where that's what we need. And I think that's awesome. So that's another would be another member perk. know, if you a passion or called to become more involved within the dairy sheep world, that's where it's at, man. Rachel Hester: Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Liv Fox: have family members that are, yeah, they're like, it's just mind boggling to me that ⁓ you saw a need, you developed this organization. Rachel Hester: it. ⁓ Liv Fox: And it's not dwindling. It's just growing. We're just you're just gaining steady momentum. know, ⁓ we are very popular a, you know, it's a small group of people. That's fine. But, but yes, and I that's really cool. And sometimes I'm like, I look back and like, yeah, I get like, just normal everyday people start things like this. ⁓ And, ⁓ that's fine. So ⁓ can a normal everyday and still Rachel Hester: very select group of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Liv Fox: join NADSA and have a voice in what's happening. ⁓ And so we didn't even touch on another that NADSA has started is a breed up program, which that we're already over time. That that's a whole topic in and of itself. Rachel Hester: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I was gonna say I'm gonna have to go soon, but we do need to do an episode on I do think we need to have an actual episode where we say, This is what we're doing and why. we want people to know what they're doing ⁓ we want you to be successful with whatever you choose Go for it, let us help you, we will cheer you on. If you wanna stay on a small scale, one acre homestead with much that don't require a lot of grain or parasite resistance, for it. Please tell us how you did that, we will cheer you on. ⁓ we do wanna just make sure that ⁓ know our goals and we know your goals and we can have a symbiotic relationship and there's no confusion, Liv Fox: Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely, NADSA is going to be everyone's biggest cheerleader within the dairy sheep world. And we want to make sure that everybody knows all the perks of having a NADSA cheerleader in your corner. Rachel Hester: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just having a community. Cause I mean, again, let's, let's be real. We are the, we're cool, but we're also still the weird kids on the block when it comes to ag. Liv Fox: Mm-hmm. Rachel Hester: And so it nice just to know where the hub to go talk to like-minded people who are interested in milk from sheep Liv Fox: Yeah, yes. So join us. We'll love it here. We'll be best friends. Rachel Hester: Yeah. Yes. Yes. We will. to the dark side. We have sheep cheese. All right, great talking to you as always, Lib. Liv Fox: Yes, until next time.