Jeff Ward: Hello, I'm Jeff Ward here with Randy Spear. Welcome back to the Accidental Bible Scholar Podcast. This is We Think, our regularly released episode number 43. Thanks for joining us. We're glad that you're here.

Randy Spear: Welcome back to the Accidental Bible Scholar Podcast. This is We Think, our regularly released episode number 43. Thanks for joining us. We're glad that you're here.

Jeff Ward: we just covered, we finished up Ephesians. Somewhere in there, we probably released podcast on Romans chapter six. It's been recorded, we're not sure when we're gonna release it.

Randy Spear: We just covered, we finished up Ephesians. Somewhere in there we probably released a podcast on Romans chapter six. It's been recorded, we're not sure when we're gonna release it. and now we're gonna start into the book of Genesis, lay some foundations for everything.

Jeff Ward: And now we're going to start into the book of Genesis. lay some foundations for everything. if you have topics you'd like to hear us discuss or criticism, whatever, contact at accidentalbiblescholar.com is our email. And the website is www.accentobiblescholar.com. That has links to all our podcasts. And if you already have a platform you listen to podcasts on, that's probably where you're hearing us, because we're on most of them.

Randy Spear: If you have topics you'd like to hear us discuss or criticism, whatever, contact at accidental bible scholar.com is our email. And the website is www.accidentalbiblescholar.com. That has links to all our podcasts. And if you already have a platform you listen to podcasts on, that's probably where you're hearing us, because we're on most of them.

Jeff Ward: Every Thursday we release a new episode and

Randy Spear: Every Thursday we release a new episode. And

Jeff Ward: anyway, let's just get started, Randy. Genesis, huh?

Randy Spear: Anyway, let's just get started, Randy. All right. Genesis. I'm ready. Genesis. Whew. We're gonna be here for a little while 'cause it's a big book. Fifty chapters plus. So anyway. There's a we're we're obviously in the next few sessions are gonna be talking about creation.

Jeff Ward: Big book. Fifty chapters plus anyway. There's a we're we're obviously in the next few sessions are gonna be talking about creation. I put here there's a big dilemma between how we teach us or how I teach this. Because there are those that'll be listening to this at Genesis one one, or in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Okay, got it. Next let's move on. And then there's others of us that are

Randy Spear: I put here there's a big dilemma between how we teach this or how I teach this. Because there are those that'll be listening to this at Genesis one, one, or in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Okay, got it. Next, let's move on. And then there's others of us that are that

Jeff Ward: that have these big philosophical questions that we want to wrestle with and we like wrestling with them. And then there's these others of us that want to get behind the science behind it. And how does where does science what does science say? What does God's word say? And how do those work together? And so I'm probably

Randy Spear: have these big philosophical questions that we want to wrestle with and we like wrestling with them. And then there's these others of us that want to get behind the science behind it. And how does where is science what does science say? What does God's word say? And how do those work together? And so I'm probably going to fall somewhere in between all that and probably disappoint everybody that's listening. So because I'm not going certainly not going to answer everybody's questions, philosophical science or biblical questions.

Jeff Ward: somewhere in between all that and probably disappoint everybody. That's just so because I'm not going certainly not going to answer everybody's questions, philosophical science, or biblical reasons. But it is important, and I'm going to spend a a little time here kind of setting this up before we get into Genesis. And I'm probably going to challenge you guys. I'm probably going to say some things that you thought the Bible said that it that it I mean

Randy Spear: But it is important and I'm gonna spend a a little time here kind of setting this up before we get into Genesis. And I'm probably gonna challenge you guys. I'm probably gonna say some things that you thought the Bible said that it that it I mean, that you think contradict the Bible until you go look at it and you go,

Jeff Ward: that you think contradict the Bible until you go look at it and you go, no, that's what the Bible says. And I'm also not going to be afraid to answer and think through some stuff that a lot of people are afraid to think through stuff. We want to talk about the boundaries we'll set for what we're thinking on and then but within those boundaries we're going to have fun and we can go wherever we want. Sounds good. So first of all, Genesis just in general as a book, you kind of said it a little bit, but I my question to to us is why it's important.

Randy Spear: No, that's what the Bible says. And I'm also not going to be afraid to answer and think through some stuff that a lot of people are afraid to think through stuff. But we'll talk about the boundaries we'll set for what we're thinking on. And then but within those boundaries, we're going to have fun and we can go wherever we want. So, first of all, Genesis, just in general as a book, you kind of said it a little bit, but I my question to to us is why it's important. And

Jeff Ward: And I it here, it establishes the framework for our existence. If we understand Genesis, it's it's the laws

Randy Spear: I put here it establishes the framework for our existence. If we understand Genesis, it's it's the laws.

Jeff Ward: that were put in place that we are required to operate in. It's the reason for our existence, which gives us purpose, which shows our design and and what we are here to do. There's also I think we talked about it six, seven, eight months ago when there was a biblical interpretation tool that's called the the law of first use, which means

Randy Spear: that were put in place that we are required to operate in. It's the reason for our existence, which gives us purpose, which shows our design and and what we are here to do. There's also I think we talked about it six, seven, eight months ago when it was a biblical interpretation tool that's called the f the law of first use, which means

Jeff Ward: if you wanna know what a word

Randy Spear: if you want to know what a word means, a lot of times you can clean a lot of insight by finding the very first time that is used in the Bible and figure out how it is used. And then that met that way it is used many times, not a hundred percent of times, but many times will will color the way that word is used. Well, just by Genesis being the first book, we're gonna have a we're gonna see that a lot. So we're as you're studying other parts of the Bible, you'll you'll need to come back to Genesis many times to figure out

Jeff Ward: means lot of times you can clean a lot of insight by finding the very first time that is used in the Bible and figure out how it is used and then that met that way is used many times not a hundred percent of times but many times what will color the way that word is used. Well just by Genesis being the first book we're gonna have a we're gonna see that a lot. So we're as you're studying other parts of the Bible you'll you'll need to come back to Genesis many times to figure out how it was used, how the author was described

Randy Spear: how it was used, how the author was describing

Jeff Ward: And used it in the in the first time in its first use. I put here, if you get Genesis wrong, you have no hope of getting anything else in life correct. And I know that's a bold statement to make, but it's true. the these are many places here how God He's telling us and showing us and talking to us about how He designed designed this world of ours, both the seen and the unseen.

Randy Spear: and used it in the co in the first time in its first use. I put here, if you get Genesis wrong, you have no hope of getting anything else in life correct. And I know that's a bold statement to make, but it's true. the these are many places here how God He's telling us and showing us and talking to us about how He designed designed this world of ours, both the seen and the unseen.

Jeff Ward: We've talked about why we study the Old Testament and I hear that question and well one it's the word of God but but two you go I c I will tell you also that many places and you know what comes to mind is what Hebrews

Randy Spear: We've talked about why we study the Old Testament and I hear that question and well, one, it's the word of God, but but two, you go, I c I will tell you also that many places and you know, what comes to mind is what Hebrews Hebrews eight thirteen says that it's been or eight twelve. Plus or minus a verse says it's been made obsolete. The old covenant has been obsolete. The old testament has not been made obsolete. The old covenant as a method for attaining righteousness

Jeff Ward: Hebrews 8 13 says it's been 12, plus or minus a verse says it's been made obsolete. The old covenant has been obsolete. The old testament has not been made obsolete. The old covenant as a method for attaining righteousness, as a method for attaining favor with God, has been made obsolete. Jesus fulfilled it and it is fully fulfilled, and now we are in a new covenant. But the covenant of Adam, which we'll st study next.

Randy Spear: As a method for attaining favor with God has been made obsolete. Jesus fulfilled it and it is fully fulfilled, and now we are in a new covenant. But the covenant of Adam, which we'll stut study next week, and in it's in this context, we've studied it before in the context of covenants, is still in effect. There are other covenants that we can learn from that either are still in effect for some folks or not.

Jeff Ward: next week in in it's in this context, we've studied it before in the context of of covenants, is still in effect. There are other covenants that we can learn from that either are still in effect for some folks or not

Randy Spear: or not in effect, but we there's still educational to see how God God works. It also, the old covenant in many ways or always, it reveals his ways and his works and his heart. Talking about God. It it is a revelation of God's heart. So that's what we need to

Jeff Ward: or not in effect, but we there's still educational to see how God God works. It also the old covenant in many ways or always it reveals his ways and his works and his heart. Talking about God. It it is a revelation of God's heart. So that's what we need to

Randy Spear: keep in mind as we study through this. I put here the old testament says that Jesus is coming. It also says we need a redeemer and and he is Jesus. So

Jeff Ward: keep in mind as we study through this. Up here, the Old Testament says that Jesus is coming. It also says we need a Redeemer and he is Jesus. So the a a common thing that that you've heard me say over and over is Jesus is on every page.

Randy Spear: A common thing that that you've heard me say over and over is Jesus is on every page. and it's true. So if you'll read the old testament looking for Jesus and when you find him and and use that as as your as you step through the Old Testament, the Old Testament will come alive to you. I had this one thing I I I wrote put together a few years ago, and it's just I just went, okay, in every chapter, I didn't do every page, but where is Jesus in every chapter of Genesis?

Jeff Ward: and it's true. So if you'll read the Old Testament looking for Jesus and when you find him and and use that as as your as you step through the Old Testament, the Old Testament will come alive to you. I had this one thing I I I wrote put together a few years ago and it's just I just wanna okay, in every chapter, I didn't do every page, but where is Jesus in every chapter of Genesis? Chapter 1, he's the creator. Chapter 2, he's the tree of tree of life. Chapter 3, he is the seed of woman that crushes the head of Satan. He is the man and woman's covering. Chapter 4, he is Abel's acceptable sacrifice. He is Cain's avenger and seal. In chapter 5, he is Noah, whose name means to bring comfort and rest from labor. In chapter 6, he is Noah. Through one man's obedience, mankind was saved. In

Randy Spear: Chapter one, he's the creator. Chapter two, he's the tree of tree of life. Chapter three, he is the seed of woman that crushes the head of Satan. He is the man and woman's covering. Chapter four, he is Abel's acceptable sacrifice. He is Cain's avenger and seal. In chapter five, he is Noah, whose name means to bring comfort and rest from labor. In chapter six, he is Noah. Through one man's obedience, mankind was saved. In chapter

Jeff Ward: chapter 7, he is the

Randy Spear: Chapter seven, he is the

Jeff Ward: The ark that rescues. In chapter 8, he is the soothing aroma of the sacrifice. In chapter 9, he is the rainbow about which God said that when he sees it, God will remember his covenant.

Randy Spear: ark that rescues. In chapter eight, he is the soothing aroma of the sacrifice. In chapter nine, he is the rainbow about which God said that when he sees it, God will remember his covenant. In chapter ten, he is the descendant of Shem. In chapter eleven, he is the descendant of Abraham. In chapter twelve, he is Abraham leaving his homeland to redeem others. In chapter thirteen, he is the one whose descendants are as numerous, numerous as the dust on the ground.

Jeff Ward: In chapter ten, he is the descendant of Shem. In chapter eleven, he is the descendant of Abraham. In chapter twelve, he is Abraham leaving his homeland to redeem others. In chapter thirteen, he is the one whose descendants are as numerous, numerous as the dust on the ground. In chapter fourteen, he is the rescuer of Lot. He is Mel Melchizedek, the king of righteousness, the princely king of peace, with no beginning, no end, bringing bread and wine. In chapter fifteen, he cuts and

Randy Spear: In chapter fourteen, he is the rescuer of Lot. He is Mel Melchizedek, the king of righteousness, the princely king of peace with no beginning, no end, bringing bread and wine. In chapter fifteen, he cuts and

Jeff Ward: Seals a covenant of faith with Abraham. Chapter 16, he is Hagar, a poor servant girl, who says, He is the God who sees me. In chapter 17, he is the promise keeper. In chapter 18, he is the interceder who pleads for his countrymen.

Randy Spear: seals a covenant of faith with Abraham. Chapter sixteen he is Hagar, a poor servant girl who says he is the God who sees me. In chapter seventeen, he is the promise keeper. In chapter eighteen, he is the interceder who pleads for his countrymen.

Jeff Ward: In chapter 19, he is Lot's Redeemer. In chapter 20, he is Sarah's restorer and Abraham's reward. In chapter 21, he is the promised son. In chapter 22, he is the son sanctified.

Randy Spear: In chapter 19, he is Lot's Redeemer. In Chapter 20, he is Sarah's restorer and Abraham's reward. In chapter 21, he is the promised son. In chapter 22, he is the son sanctified. Chapter 23, he is the groom submitting to obtain his bride. In chapter four, he is the son whose father secures for him a bride. In chapter twenty-five, he is the chosen son. In chapter twenty-six, he is Isaac's one hundredfold harvest.

Jeff Ward: Chapter 23, he is the groom submitting to obtain his bride. In chapter 4, he is the son whose father secures for him a bride. In chapter 25, he is the chosen son. In chapter 26, he is Isaac's 100fold harvest. In chapter 27 through 36, talking about Isaac, he is the forsaken inheritance. He is the ladder between heaven and earth. He is the groom working 14 years for his bride. He is wise and what he is the wise and watchful shepherd.

Randy Spear: In chapter twenty seven through thirty six, talking about Isaac, he is the forsaken inheritance. He is the ladder between heaven and earth. He is the groom working fourteen years for his bride. He is wise and white he is the wise and watchful shepherd.

Jeff Ward: Shepherd. In Joseph's life in chapter 37 through 50, he is the prophet, the favored son, the betrayed by his brothers, unjustly sold into slavery, sent from the position of favor to the lowest position to rescue his people, falsely accused,

Randy Spear: In Joseph's life, in chapter thirty-seven through fifty, he is the prophet, the favored son, the betrayed by his brothers, unjustly sold into slavery, sent from the position of favor to the lowest position to rescue his people, falsely accused, and

Jeff Ward: falsely imprisoned, forgotten, forsaken, high and lifted up, worshiped by his family. That's Jesus in Genesis. And that's the payoff, if you will, for reading.

Randy Spear: Falsely imprisoned, forgotten, forsaken, high and lifted up, worshipped by his family. That's Jesus in Genesis. And that's the payoff, if you will, for reading the Old Testament looking for Jesus. Anyway, that's answered the question. Yeah. I made it through it pretty well. I usually can't even make it through that without choking up to it. I know. It's good. Yeah, and so back to Genesis specifically.

Jeff Ward: the old testament looking for Jesus. It's awesome. That's answer the question. Go back, put on half speed, listen to that again. Yeah. That's good. I know. It's good. Yeah. And so back to Genesis specifically Genesis one. I had this as a question. It's really the the audience can't respond. But you know, is is think about this. Is is the creation account in Genesis controversial?

Randy Spear: Genesis one. I had this as a question. It's really the the audience can't respond. But you know, is is think about this. Is is the creation account in Genesis controversial? Why and why not? and it is controversial. There's lots of varied opinions on this. it is one of, not not it is is not the, but it is one of the primary places that science

Jeff Ward: And it is controversial. There's lots of varied opinions on this. it is one of not not it is is not the but is one of the primary places that science and culture and the Bible meet. is how do we get here? That's an important question. And why are we here? and those are those are the questions that

Randy Spear: and culture and the Bible meet is how do we get here? That's an important question. And why are we here? and those are those are the questions that you need to answer because those are questions that provide purpose in a in a person's life. I put here the answers, these questions lead to how we live, how our culture operates. you know

Jeff Ward: You need to answer because those are questions that provide purpose in a in a person's life. I put here that answers these questions lead to how we live, how our culture operates. you know, the answers these questions will determine are we accountable or not? You know, are we accountable to a creator or are we just here by accident? So we're accountable to nothing. is there absolute truth? Is morality a thing or is it just a cultural thing?

Randy Spear: the answers to these questions will determine are we accountable or not? You know, are we accountable to a creator or are we just here by accident? So we're accountable to nothing. is there absolute truth? Is morality a thing or is it just a cultural thing?

Jeff Ward: does good exist? Does evil exist? Those are the those are the things that you that you understand and can have to decide on based on Genesis 1, how we got here.

Randy Spear: does good exist? Does evil exist? Those are the those are the things that you that you understand and can have to decide on based on Genesis one, how we got here.

Jeff Ward: And I think that science and Christians both make mistakes here. Both of us are guilty. and this is kind of the one of the main points of today that I'm gonna look at. And the problem is on both sides is arrogance. Imagine that. you know, pride was the reason Satan fell, pride is the reason Adam and Eve fell, and and here I am pointing out the problem of arrogance when we're trying to decide this. But

Randy Spear: And I think that science and Christians both make mistakes here. Both of us are guilty. and this is kind of the one of the main points of today that I'm gonna look at. And the problem is on both sides is arrogance. Imagine that. you know, pride was the reason Satan fell, pride is the reason Adam and Eve fell, and and here I am pointing out the problem of arrogance when we're trying to decide this. But if you'll remember

Jeff Ward: you'll remember whenever six or eight months ago when we talked about interpreting our Bible, one of the things I emphasize is that there's a massive dose of humility is required to

Randy Spear: Whenever six or eight months ago when we talked about interpreting our Bible, one of the things I emphasize is that there's a massive dose of humility is required to properly interpret the Bible. Just and and same thing here. We're this is what we're doing, interpreting Genesis, the first few ch part of Genesis one. So just up in here, relax and take a chill pill. We are not nearly as smart as we think we are. We are finite beings literally trying to define and understand infinity.

Jeff Ward: and and same thing here we're this is what we're doing interpreting Genesis the first few ch part of Genesis one so just I'll put your relax and take a chill pill I but we're not nearly as smart as we think we are we are finite beings literally trying to define and understand infinity and there's lots of room for variance when in the finite is trying to fit into infinity there's lots of extra space around there for extra opinions and we're okay with that we can get along with

Randy Spear: And there's a lot of room for variance when in the finite is trying to fit into infinity. There's lots of extra space around there for extra opinions. And we're okay with that. We can get along with

Jeff Ward: different people's opinions. let's talk about I put scientific arrogance first of all. It's everywhere. science in our culture has taken on really

Randy Spear: different people's opinions. let's talk about I put scientific arrogance, first of all. It's everywhere. science in our culture has taken on really

Jeff Ward: religious characteristics. yeah.

Randy Spear: religious characteristics. the sci the the sci the fact that science is right and indisputable, that that's in our in our culture. And if you go against that, to go against sci science is is crazy. Blasphemy. It really is. You're cutting across many people's religion when you go against science. And you get labeled as an idiot, as somebody that doesn't know what they're talking about. And you get

Jeff Ward: the s the the sci the fact that science is right and indisputable right that's in our in our culture and if you go against that to go against sci science right is is crazy. Blasphemy. It really is. Yeah. You're cutting across many people's religion when you go against science. And you get labeled as an idiot, as somebody that doesn't know what they're talking about. And you get if you go against science you you get kind of just put

Randy Spear: If you go against science, you you get kind of just put to

Jeff Ward: to the side. the problem with science is it's also heavily influenced by money, heavily influenced by control and worldview and assumptions. Yes. Yes, and these and we don't even know what assumptions we've made many times. Exactly. Take the assumptions as fact. Yeah. And we can go into some compra com some crazy places. I mean most recent maybe not most recently, but but recently six years ago now it seems

Randy Spear: the side. the problem with science is it's also heavily influenced by money, heavily influenced by control and power. Yes, yes, and these and we don't even know what assumptions we've made many times, or we take the assumptions as fact. And we can go into some compra come some crazy places. I mean, most recent, maybe not most recently, but but recently, six years ago now, it seems Odd.

Jeff Ward: odd.

Randy Spear: But COVID was a huge example of that. You know, where did the science fall? Well soon I remember

Jeff Ward: But COVID was a huge example of that. The science fall. Well soon I remember

Randy Spear: and I told Angela this shortly into this, the US government threw several billion dollars at it. I'm like, okay, we're done. We don't we will no longer know what's true because money and power is now entered into this problem of solving the COVID issue. And now suddenly there there's people's riches are involved here, so who knows what's true now?

Jeff Ward: And I told Angela this shortly into this, the US government threw several billion dollars at it. I'm like, okay, we're done. We don't we will no longer know what's true. Yeah. Because money and power is now entered into this problem of solving the COVID issue. Yep. And now suddenly the the There's money to be had. People's riches are involved here. Yeah. So who knows what's true now. And even now, as they're hearing hearings and different things come out, we're finding that

Randy Spear: And even now, as they're hearing hearings and different things come out, we're finding that much of what they said was untrue, but they were c claiming it was science. Here's the thing I thought through a few years ago and have kind of held on to it because I thought, yeah, when it hit me, I said, we think science is right and indisputable. Yet every generation, every generation has proven the previous generation's science faulty.

Jeff Ward: Much of what they said was untrue, but they were c claiming it was science. Yeah. Here's the thing I thought through a few years ago and kind of held on to it because I thought, yeah, when it hit me. I said, We think science is right and indisputable, yet every generation, every generation has proven the previous generation's science faulty.

Randy Spear: While simultaneously claiming that their science is correct. Every generation. So our generation is no different. And we have proved every generation before us wrong to some degree in science. And what do we think? We think we got it figured out. Even though we can look back a hundred generations ago, there hadn't been a generation that had it right yet. Well, but ours has. No. So whatever we are calling science will be proven wrong, at least parts of it, right?

Jeff Ward: While simultaneously claiming that their science is correct. Exactly. Every generation so our generation is no different and we've proved every generation before us wrong to some degree in science. And what do we think? We think we got it. We think we got it. Even though we can look back a hundred generations ago, there ain't a minute generation that had it right yet. Well, but ours has. Yeah. No. Yeah. So whatever we are calling science will be proven wrong. Yeah. At least parts of it, right?

Randy Spear: I like to cover here the history of the electron, and I won't cover Boris with a lot, but just a simple one negatively charged particle has gone through a history the last hundred years. You know, it's it was a particle, it had a certain charge. Okay, now it's not a particle. Okay, now it's a wave and a particle. It kind of orbits, yeah. And it's one two places at once. Sometimes you find it, sometimes you can't.

Jeff Ward: I like to cover here the history of the electron and I won't cover Boris with all but just a simple one negatively charged particle. Has gone through a history yeah last hundred years. You know, it's it was a particle, it had a certain charge, okay, now it's not a particle, okay, now it's a wave and a particle. It orbits, well, it's w it's generally in there, yeah. It's one two places at once. Sometimes you find it, sometimes you can't, and then

Randy Spear: And then it's only where you say it is and you look at it, yep, there it is, but it's not over here. And I mean it's gone through all this. Yeah, yeah. So we went for into this quantum physics where who knows where it is and what it is. My guess is electron doesn't ex doesn't exist. My guess it's a bunch of little other things together, but it is nowhere just the past hundred years, the changes in something as simple as electricity or the electron that moves through a wire has

Jeff Ward: It's only where you say it is and you look at it, yeah, there it is, but it's not over here. And I mean it's just it's all probabilities. Yeah, yeah. So we went for into this quantum physics where Yeah. Who knows where it is and what it is. My guess is electron doesn't ex doesn't exist. My guess it's a bunch of little other things together. But it is nowhere just the past hundred years, the changes in something as simple as electricity or the electron that moves through a wire. Yeah. Has changed.

Randy Spear: Changed.

Jeff Ward: Yeah. So and what's my point? A little humility as we sure end of this. Go ahead, where are you saying? Well, I was gonna say, I mean, anyone honestly could say we're gonna know

Randy Spear: So what's my point? A little humility as we jump into this. Go ahead, where'd you say? Well I was gonna say, I mean, anyone honestly could say we're gonna know

Jeff Ward: more about an electron in a hundred years than we do now. Yeah. And we'll be able to define it better. Yeah. So that means our assumptions based upon that knowledge we have now i is gonna change. So things are gonna change. Yeah. There's things like confirmation bias, already mentioned the money or political power. You know, there's political power.

Randy Spear: that we do now. Yeah. We'll be able to define it better. Yeah. So that means our assumptions based upon that knowledge we have now i is gonna change. Yep. Things are gonna change. Yeah. There's things like confirmation bias, I already mentioned the money or political power. You know, there's political power behind saying that this is a problem, whatever it happens to be. You know, this is the problem

Jeff Ward: saying that this is a problem, whatever it happens to be. yeah. This is the problem.

Randy Spear: and, you know, it's just and and we're bombarded with these untruths.

Jeff Ward: And and we're bombarded with these untruths. Yeah. I flew with a guy, it's been a few years ago, but he was it's back when Delta their five plans on paper and he was so distraught that we were wasting these papers and we were killing trees when we could do be doing on our iPad. And I'm like, killing trees, what are you talking about? And I know what he's talking about 'cause everybody you know, save a tree, save a tree. I go, we were going into the panhandle here and I go, Okay, when we go into this airport, I forget what which one it was, look down at the trees.

Randy Spear: You know, I flew with a guy, it's been a few years ago, but he was it's back when Delta did our five plans on paper, and he was so distraught that we were wasting these papers and we were killing trees when we could do be doing it on our iPad. And I'm like, killing trees? What are you talking about? And I know what he's talking about because everybody's like, you know, save a tree, save this piece here. I go, we were going into the panhandle here and I go, Okay, when we go into this airport, I forget w which one it was, look down at the trees. They're all in a straight line.

Jeff Ward: They're all in a straight line.

Randy Spear: How do you why do you think that is? Because there's a tree farmer.

Jeff Ward: How do you why do think that is? Because there's a tree farmer and he farms these trees and he makes paper out of them. And then he grows North Trees and they make paper out of those and he grows more trees. I mean, I'm like he's like, you know, got in his mind because of media or whatever that, you know, they're coming in stealing people's trees from their, you know, farm or their yeah, I'm like, no, this makes money, this puts pays this guy's mortgage and feeds his family. So does the guy at the paper mill. So so if we use paper, it's a tool we use. Yeah. It's like wheat.

Randy Spear: And he farms these trees and he makes paper out of And then he grows nor trees and they make paper out of those. And he grows more trees. I mean, I'm like he's like, you know, gotten in his mind because of media or whatever that, you know, they're coming in stealing people's trees from their, you know, their farm or their you know, I'm like, no, this makes money. This puts pays this guy's mortgage and feeds his family. So does it the guy at the paper mill. So so if we use paper, it's a tool we use. Yeah, we have to throw

Jeff Ward: It's a crop. Yeah, exactly. It's a crop.

Randy Spear: Yeah, exactly. It's a crop.

Jeff Ward: Nobody says I'm gonna not eat this piece of bread 'cause I'm gonna save a wheat plant. Right. I mean, we're just inundated with stupid stuff. Yeah. I said. What about arrogance in religion? Yeah, it's not hard, you don't have to look far to find arrogance in religion. I we have is this my way or or the highway attitude? I you know, we know a guy that's in religion that makes fun of the big bang theory, and I'm Hey, don't make fun of the big bang theory when it's a theory I

Randy Spear: Nobody says, I'm gonna not eat this piece of bread 'cause I'm gonna save a wheat plant. I mean, we're just inundated with stupid stuff. Anyway, I said it. What about arrogance in religion? Yeah, it's not you don't have to look far to find arrogance in religion. We have is this my way or or the highway attitude? I you know, we know a guy that's in religion that makes fun of the Big Bang theory, and I'm like, Hey, don't make fun of the Big Bang Theory. When it's a theory, I got it, but The Big Bang Theory indisputably proves the existence of God. It's not our enemy. You know, but we're arrogant to go, well, that's, you know, bang. And I'm like, it it matches the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is a bodiless, all powerful, decision-making being that exists outside of time and space. And that's what the Big Bang, the Big Bang proves that. Proves every of those attributes I put to God. It's a biblical attribute and Big Bang proves it.

Jeff Ward: Big Bang Theory indisputably proves the existence of God. Right. It's not our enemy. You know, but we're arrogant to go, well, that's, you know, bang. And I'm like, it it matches the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is a bodiless, all-powerful, decision-making being that exists outside of time and space. And that's what the Big Bang, the Big Bang proves that. Proves every of those attributes I put to God. It's a biblical attribute and Big Bang proves it.

Randy Spear: so let's see.

Jeff Ward: so let's see.

Randy Spear: I put arrogance on both sides, cause each of us to ignore the evidence on the other side. Some evidence supports an old universe, like it's a billion thirty two billion years old or whatever. But there are s there are some evidence that supports a young universe, you know, down into the thousands of of years. and both point both sides point to the other side and s and say how ignorant they are. And I'm like, Well, I don't know how to exactly resolve it, but

Jeff Ward: I arrogance on both sides because it of us to ignore the evidence on the other side. Some evidence supports an old universe, like it's a billion thirty two billion years old or whatever. But there are s there are some evidence that supports a young universe, you know, down into the thousands of of years. and both point both sides point to the other side and s and say how ignorant they are. And I'm like, Well, I don't know how to exactly resolve it, but

Randy Spear: the Bible will I'm not going to resolve it today, but the

Jeff Ward: the Bible will I'm not gonna resolve it today. But the

Randy Spear: I think there is resolution to some of that in the Bible. Okay. and here's another thing. We act like God is this fragile being that can't handle our questions and we can't, you know, he's he's we don't want to step on his toes. We gotta be real careful around it. I'm like, hey, God's a big boy and doesn't require protection. If your God requires you to protect him or defend him, you need to go find a new God. He welcomes questions.

Jeff Ward: Think there is resolution to some of that in the Bible. Okay. and here's another thing. We act like God is this fragile being that can't handle our questions and we can't, you know, he's he's we don't want to step on his toes. We've got to be real careful around it. I'm like, hey, God's a big boy and doesn't require protection. If your God requires you to protect him or defend him, you need to go find a new God. He welcomes questions. Now he's not a fan of unbelief, but he's a huge fan of inquiring minds. In fact, he he made inquiring minds.

Randy Spear: Now he's not a fan of unbelief, but he's a huge fan of inquiring minds. In fact, he he made inquiring minds. here, God created this massively complex universe. Then he inserted these curious explorers right in the middle of it. You and I, we are created to be explorers. But most of God's laws are not in the Bible. You're like, what? Yeah, most of God's laws are not in the Bible. He left it for us to discover.

Jeff Ward: Here, God created this massively complex universe. Then he inserted these curious explorers right in the middle of it. You and I. We are created to be explorers. But most of God's laws are not in the Bible. You're like, what? Yeah, most of God's laws are not in the Bible. He left it for us to discover. And many times we get it wrong, and then we gotta come back and learn. Like the law of gravity, law of thermodynamics. There's more laws not in the Bible than are in the Bible. Why?

Randy Spear: And many times we get it wrong and then we gotta come back and learn, like the law of gravity, law of thermodynamics. There's there's more laws not in the Bible than are in the Bible. Why? Because he wants he he put he created us to be explorers. He put us in this big wonderful creation and said, figure it out. I put real religion and real science are not at odds with with each other. They are the same pursuit. The pursuit of real religion and real

Jeff Ward: Because he wants he put he created us to be explorers. He put us in this big wonderful creation and said, figure it out. I put real religion and real science are not at odds with you with each other. They are the same pursuit. The pursuit of real religion and real science is the pursuit of God, his nature, and how he works. Right. All right.

Randy Spear: Science is the pursuit of God, his nature and how he works. All right. I wanna take for just a second. Christianity.

Jeff Ward: Take for just a second. So religion, Christianity, the Bible encourages curiosity and exploration and science. Yes. Fact it's neither should be. The Bible is completely unafraid of your questions. Right. And God is. And science must be also. Yeah. And both religion and science want have this pull toward let's let's not be questioned. And

Randy Spear: Curiosity and exploration and science. Yes. Neither should be. The Bible is completely unafraid of your questions. And God is. And science must be also. And both religion and science want have this pull toward let's let's not be questioned. And and who are you to question me? So here's here's one that we will get to in a minute. I said here, what if I asked this question? Was the universe created in six twenty four hour days? I'm not asking but if we were to ask our audience, there's people right now that have said yes in their mind and there's people that said said no. If you're in a question if you're in a room full of a bunch of yeses and and a no walks in, they're gonna get get some looks at best, right? Or at least some thoughts about I don't know if they're a real Christian or not. or or and it could be the vice vice versa. And here's what I say, and well I'll I'll I'll show it to us in a minute. I am I do not think the Bible teaches that the universe is created out of nothing in 144 hours.

Jeff Ward: If you're in a question if you're in a room full of a bunch of yeses and and a no walks in, they're gonna get hit some looks at best, right? Or at least some thoughts about I don't know if they're a real Christian or not. Right. or and it could be the vice vice versa. And here's what I say, and well I'll I'll show it to us in a minute. I am I do not think the Bible teaches that the universe is created out of nothing in 144 hours.

Randy Spear: That's six times twenty four. I just don't think that.

Jeff Ward: That's six times twenty-four. I just don't think that. And I'll show you why I think that. And I put maybe it was. And God could have done it in 144 seconds if he chose to. I'm not I'm not questioning God's ability. okay. I just don't think the Bible teaches that. And that that could be controversial, but please keep listening.

Randy Spear: And I'll show you why I think that. And I put maybe it was. And God could have done it in 144 seconds if he chose to. I'm not I'm not questioning God's ability. okay. I just don't think the Bible teaches that. And that that could be controversial, but please keep listening. I said we need to be a coup be careful of a couple things here. First, let's not distort the Bible to make it conform to science.

Jeff Ward: I said we need to be a couple be careful of a couple things here. First, let's not distort the Bible to make it conform to science. Okay? An example. Evolution, some some people will teach in the Bible, or some Christians will teach that evolution is a is the means that God used for creation. And that's just we'll look at it today, but

Randy Spear: Okay, an example, evolution, some some people will teach in the Bible, or some Christians will teach that evolution is a is the means that God used for creation. And that's just we'll look at it today, but the Bible completely dispels evolution. But we want to lean toward well, we want to respect science and we think evolution is true because science and s evolution is a theory.

Jeff Ward: The Bible completely dispels evolution. Right. But we want to lean toward well, we want to respect science and we think evolution is true because science and sci evolution is a theory that is not based on science. Peter, some Christians try to reconcile science in the Bible by saying that God used evolution to create life. and it violates the Bible.

Randy Spear: That is not based on science. I put here some Christians try to reconcile science in the Bible by saying that God used evolution to create life. and it violates the Bible. this assumes that the evolution is a valid science when in reality evolution is a religion not supported by scientific evidence. See, I told you I'm gonna try to make everybody mad. And then the second thing we have to be careful of let's not make the Bible say something that it doesn't say. So, first of all, let's not conform the Bible to science.

Jeff Ward: This assumes that the evolution is a valid science when in reality evolution is a religion not supported by scientific evidence. See, I told you I'm gonna try to make everybody mad. And then the second thing we have to be careful of, let's not make the Bible say something that it doesn't say. So first of all, let's not conform the Bible to science. But also let's not take the Bible and make it say something that it doesn't say. this too can become a false religion where we're just putting that on a pedestal and we don't. I put here as a case in point is a hundred and forty-four hour creation of the entire universe.

Randy Spear: But also let's not take the Bible and make it say something that it doesn't say. this too can become a false religion where we're just putting that on a pedestal and we don't. I put here as a case in point is a hundred and forty-four hour creation of the entire universe. and I put here as proof, some of you are already having trouble taking me seriously because I just said that. there will probably be people listening because I've seen emotional outbursts from from people followers of Christ.

Jeff Ward: and I put here as proof, some of you are already having trouble taking me seriously because I just said that. there will probably be people listening because I've seen emotional outburst from people followers of Christ, if somebody says it wasn't created 144 days. But they just haven't read the first they haven't read chapter one in my opinion. so let's start down this path and kind of build how we're gonna

Randy Spear: If somebody says it wasn't created 144 days, but they just haven't read the first, they didn't read chapter one, in my opinion. so let's start down this path and kind of build how we're going to talk and think. So there was this study done. I think I might have re referenced it in parenting because it applies to parenting as much as it does here. But in the 70s, I think it is, this study, they took a playground, two different playgrounds, and it took a bunch of kindergartners.

Jeff Ward: So there was this study done. I think I might have referenced referenced it in parenting because it applies to parenting as much as it does here. But in the 70s, I think it is, this study, they took a playground, two different playgrounds, and they took a bunch of kindergartners. And one playground had a fence around it and one playground didn't have a fence around it. And what they found is if you put a bunch of kindergartens on a playground with a fence around it, they play on everything and they cover the playground.

Randy Spear: And one playground had a fence around it and one playground didn't have a fence around it. And what they found is if you put a bunch of kindergartens on a playground with a fence around it, they play on everything and they cover the playground. Cause boundaries the result is they have a boundary, they know where the boundaries are, and those boundaries are good. And so they're free. Boundaries create freedom. It's opposite of what people think. Well and then

Jeff Ward: 'Cause boundaries the result is they have a boundary, they know where the boundaries are, and those boundaries are good and so they're free. Boundaries create freedom. It's the opposite of what people think. Well and then on the k the playground that didn't have a boundaries, they didn't. They huddled around the teachers. The kids didn't get very far from the teachers. And they didn't go and explore the whole playground and play on everything. And again,

Randy Spear: on the k the playground that didn't have a boundaries, they didn't. They huddled around the teachers. The kids didn't get very far from the teachers. And they didn't go and explore the whole playground and play on everything. And again,

Jeff Ward: here's the problem. We that says boundaries are good. So I want to set our boundaries for exploring Genesis one. If you approach

Randy Spear: Here's the problem. We that says boundaries are good. So I want to set our boundaries for exploring Genesis one. If you approach Genesis one without boundaries, then what we'll do is we'll huddle around the middle idea somewhere, and we don't feel free to explore everything because we don't have boundaries. We can even get ridiculed by by certain people if we go out to a point and that feels like it's a little close to the boundary, right?

Jeff Ward: Genesis 1 without boundaries, then what we'll do is we'll huddle around the middle idea somewhere, and we don't feel free to explore everything because we don't have boundaries. We can even get ridiculed by by certain people if we go out to a point and that feels like it's a little close to the boundary, right? So

Randy Spear: So I've even had the gut feeling that, well, if you don't follow this, then you're letting God down. You know, if you don't say that it's created in six, twenty-four hour periods, then then you're letting letting God down or having that feeling. So let's set some boundaries and and are you ready to? So I want you to look up some verses. Okay. When you get ready. You are you're always ready. You do it so fast. But anyway,

Jeff Ward: I've even had the gut feeling that well if you don't follow this, then you're letting God down. You know, if you don't say that it's created in six, twenty-four hour periods, then then you're letting letting God down or having that feeling. So let's set some boundaries and and are you ready to? So I want you to look up some verses. Okay. When you get ready. You are you're always ready. You do have to. But anyway.

Randy Spear: picture if I had a whiteboard, I'd put a big

Jeff Ward: Picture if I had a whiteboard I'd put a big box and that big square if you will is our playground with boundaries around it and we're gonna put four boundaries on

Randy Spear: box and that big square, if you will, is our playground with boundaries around it. And we're going to put four boundaries around the four fences. And we won't go outside those boundaries, but within those boundaries, we're going to be free to think about and to research and to look at and and and just and we'll entertain it all within these boundaries. So let's create the fence and then we'll jump into Genesis one. So the first boundary, so the first line across top put

Jeff Ward: Fences and we won't go outside those boundaries, but within those boundaries, we're gonna be free to think about and to research and to look at and and and just and we'll entertain it all within these boundaries. So let's create the fence and then we'll jump into Genesis 1. So the first boundary, so the first line across top put John 1, 1 through 3. So this is our first boundary. So if you don't mind reading that,

Randy Spear: John one, one through three. So this is our first boundary. So if you don't mind reading that.

Jeff Ward: sure. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was fully God. The word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him, not one thing was created that has been created. Okay, so across our first boundary is going to be John 1, 1 through 3, which says, In short, all things were created by Jesus Christ, the Word of God. Yep. Okay? So that's boundary one. On the right hand boundary.

Randy Spear: Okay, so across our first boundary is gonna be John one, one through three, which is says, in short, all things were created by Jesus Christ, the Word of God. Okay? So that's boundary one. On the right hand boundary, we're gonna write Hebrews one verses two through three. So when you get to that, read Hebrews one verses two and three.

Jeff Ward: Hebrews 1, verses 2 through 3. So when you get to that, read Hebrews 1, verses 2 and 3. Okay. In the last days he has spoken to us in a son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he created the world. The Son is a radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. And so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high. Okay, so that says also our right hand boundaries, all things were created through Jesus.

Randy Spear: The Son is a radiance of his glory the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. And so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high. Okay, so that says also our right hand boundary is all things were created through Jesus.

Jeff Ward: So the top boundaries are three.

Randy Spear: So the top boundaries, all things were created by Jesus, all things were created through Jesus, and one one additional thing there, all things are held together by Jesus' command. So that's our top boundary, right hand. All things are held together by his word or by his command. All right, let's go over to the left hand boundary and let's write on that Colossians one sixteen through seventeen. So if you want to read Colossians one sixteen through seventeen, do s do that please.

Jeff Ward: Jesus, all things were created through Jesus. And one additional thing there, all things are held together by Jesus' command. So that's our top boundary right hand. All things are held together by his word or by his command. Let's go over to the left-handed boundary and let's write on that Colossians 1 16 through 17. So if you want to read Colossians 1 16 through 17, do that, please. Okay. One sixteen seventeen for all things in heaven and earth were created in him. All things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers, all things were created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and all things are held together in him. Okay. So some of the overlap with our first boundary first two boundaries, but the other boundary we say is created in him, through him, the one we'll add that's unique is everything was recreated for him.

Randy Spear: Okay. So some of the overlap with our first boundary, first two boundaries, but the other boundary we say is created in him, through him. The one we'll add that's unique is everything was created for him. Okay. And Jesus holds all things together. We know from Hebrews one, it's by his command that he holds all things together. But so so now everything is cr by him, through him, and for him. That's our

Jeff Ward: Okay. And Jesus holds all things together. We know from Hebrews 1, it's by his command that he holds all things together. But so so now everything is cur by him, through him, and for him. That's our top and left left and right boundary. Now let's put the bottom boundary on it and we'll have our square or boundary set that we can now operate inside of. And that's Romans one verses twenty. Romans one twenty. Okay.

Randy Spear: Top and left and right boundary. Now let's put the bottom boundary on it and we'll have our square or boundary set that we can now operate inside of. And that's Romans one verses twenty. Romans one twenty.

Jeff Ward: For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse.

Randy Spear: Creation of the world, his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse. Okay, so the bottom one is we all know. We all know by observing creation, we are therefore responsible and know that there is a creator God.

Jeff Ward: We are therefore responsible and know that there is a creator God. And he has he this says he goes even further. It says he has eternal power and he has a divine nature. And we all know. And so we have no excuse. So now we've got our boundaries built. Okay, this is our playground in the middle of these boundaries.

Randy Spear: And he has e this says, he goes even further. It says he has eternal power and he has a divine nature. And we all know. And so we have no excuse. So now we've got our boundaries built. Okay. This is our playground in the middle of these boundaries. The top one, everything's created by Jesus, everything's created through Jesus. Everything was created for Jesus. And everybody knows it.

Jeff Ward: Everything's created by Jesus, everything's created through Jesus, everything was created for Jesus, and everybody knows it.

Randy Spear: That's the that's the four boundaries. So within that, this is super powerful because now within that, you and I and different people, we can we can talk and explore different sections of that boundary, but just we're just gonna stay in those boundaries. And then,

Jeff Ward: That's the four boundaries. So within that, this is super powerful because now within that, you and I and different people, we can talk and explore different sections of that boundary, but just we're just going to stay in those boundaries. And then

Randy Spear: So anyway, there's a freedom, just like the kindergartners on the playground with a boundary, there's a freedom for us now to look into scientific literature literature, to look into both Genesis 1 and and and and away we go. So anyway, that's one idea. Here's another, and I'm just I know it's one idea after another right here. Hopefully we can well, I know if you can keep up. I everybody else listening. So let me throw this other idea. So where do babies come from? Don't answer that.

Jeff Ward: So anyway, there's a freedom, just like the kindergartners on the playground with the boundary, there's a freedom for us now to look into scientific literature, to look into both Genesis 1 and and and and away we go. So anyway, that's one idea. Here's another, I'm just I know it's one idea after another right here. Hopefully we can well I know if you can keep up. I everybody else listening. So let me throw this other idea. So where do babies come from? Don't answer that.

Randy Spear: That's but that's a valid question, right? Well, who's answering depends on who's asking depends on who's answering or what the answer is. So here's a here's your three-month-old, or not three-month-old, your three-year-old child comes up. Maybe there's a another sibling on the way, and they ask that question, where do babies come from? What's the answer? Well, babies come from mommy's tummy.

Jeff Ward: That's but that's a valid question, right? Well who's answering depends on who's asking depends on who's answering or what the answer is. So here's here's your three-month old, or not three-month old, your three-year-old child comes up, maybe there's a another sibling on the way, and they ask that question, where do babies come from? What's the answer? Well babies come from mommy's tummy.

Randy Spear: All right. So that is a true and complete answer. You don't need to add anything to it.

Jeff Ward: Alright, so that is a true and complete answer. You don't need anything to it. It's not a it's completely true and is complete. Let's take that three year old and fast forward ten years from now, or I don't know, eight or nine years after you, you know. my kids are in their thirties, so I'm trying to remember when all these happened. But late elementary say. Now they ask that same question. Where do babies come from? Well now we get into

Randy Spear: It's not a it's completely true and is complete. Let's take that three year old and fast forward ten years from now, or I don't know, eight or nine year, I forget, you know. my kids are in their thirties, so I'm trying to remember when all these happened. But late elementary say. Now they ask that same question. Where do babies come from? Well, now we get into

Jeff Ward: mommy and daddy love each other and

Randy Spear: Mommy and daddy love each other and and they come together and we t we talk about sex and we talk about that kind of a discussion within the home where it's appropriate to do so and we educate our children there. What about that answer? Well that answer is true and complete, right? Can't add to it, no need to add to it. Now let's fast forward another ten years, and now there are

Jeff Ward: They come together and we t we talk about sex and we talk about that kind of a discussion within the home where it's appropriate to do so and we educate our children there. What about that answer? Well that answer is true and complete. Right? Can't add to it, no need to add to it. Yep. Now let's fast forward another ten years and now there are

Randy Spear: sophomore in college and now they're in a biology class and now they're li either ask the professor or the professor asking and answering this question where do babies come from. This PhD in biology to students in college is going to give a completely different answer than any of the first two. We're going to get down to the cellular level or the DNA level and the strands of DNA between a sperm and an egg combining and how they combine, how the growth

Jeff Ward: sophomore in college and now they're in a biology class and now they're l either asked the professor or the professor asking and answering this question where the babies come from. This PhD in biology to students in college is going to give a completely different answer than any of the first two. We're going to get down to the cellular level or the DNA level and the strands of DNA between a sperm and an egg combined and how they combine how the growth begins how it attaches to the uterus. These may be all things. Guess what? That answer also is true and completeness.

Randy Spear: begins, how it attaches to the uterus. These may be all things. Guess what? That answer also is true and complete.

Jeff Ward: Right. but it doesn't matter. So so here's the question. Which one of these levels are we on when when when we look at Genesis 1? Is Genesis 1 answering the question where we came from?

Randy Spear: but it doesn't matter. So, so here's the question. Which one of these levels are we on when when when we look at Genesis one? Is Genesis one answering the question where we came from to a three year old and the answer is mommy's tummy, or is it an elementary school kid and it's stuff about the birds and the bees, or is it the biology professor? My guess is.

Jeff Ward: To a three year old and the answer is mommy's tummy, or is it an elementary school kid and it's stuffed by the birds and the bees, or is it the biology professor? My guess is it's along the lines of mommy's tummy. Right. We go, hey, where did where did we come from? Well, you come from mommy's tummy. Yeah. Yeah. My guess is that's probably where Genesis one is. I mean it only covers it in a it covers all creation in a few pages. I don't

Randy Spear: It's along the lines of mommy's tummy. When we go, hey, where did where did we come from? Well, you come from mommy's tummy. My guess is that's probably where Genesis one is. I mean, it only covers it in a f it covers all creation in a few pages. I don't know that it can even get it to the elementary school age. What am I saying? There's a lot to this that we don't know. And we can we can feel free within these boundaries we established, we can feel free to kind of kind of hunt and peck and look.

Jeff Ward: know that it can even get it to the elementary school age. What am I saying? There's a lot to this that we don't know. Right. And we can we can feel free within these boundaries we establish, we can feel free to kinda kinda hunt and peck and look.

Randy Spear: Okay. I put Genesis one of creation is true and complete, but it leaves holes. holes and I put her why would God leave holes? Well, one, we're probably incapable of understanding. I mean, if you went to the elementary school kid and they said where do babies come from and you gave him the PhD biology thing, they look at you and go,

Jeff Ward: put Genesis one of creation is true and complete, but it leaves holes. holes and I put why would God leave holes? Well one, we're probably incapable of understanding Exactly. I mean if you went to the elementary school kid and they said where babies come from and you gave them the PhD biology thing, they'd look at you and go

Randy Spear: So where did babies come from? Let me start let me s let me repeat my question. Where did baby comes from? 'Cause it to good 'cause it's so far.

Jeff Ward: So where did babies come from? Let me start let me let me repeat my question. Let me ask a question again. Yeah. 'Cause it 'cause it's so far. Yeah. and the other part is he's created a big, huge universe and he's planted a bunch of discoverers in it. Well right if you're a created discoverer, you don't want to be given the answers right away, right? You want to figure it out.

Randy Spear: and the other part is he's created a big, huge universe and he's planted a bunch of discoverers in it. Well, y if you're a a created discoverer, you don't want to be given the answers right away, right? You want to figure it out. And that's what he's designed us to do. Okay, so with that as a pretty big section of background, let's jump into Genesis. Do you remember where that is? Yes. All right, cover the f first.

Jeff Ward: And that's what he's designed us to do. Okay, so with that as a pretty big section of background, let's jump into Genesis. Sounds good. Yes. All right, cover the first five verses, Genesis one, one through five. Maybe we'll start covering it covering some of these in chunks. Okay.

Randy Spear: Five verses, Genesis one, one through five. Maybe we'll start covering covering some of these in chunks.

Jeff Ward: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep. But the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water. God said let there be light and there was light. God saw the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day and the darkness night. There was evening and there was morning, marking the first day. Okay.

Randy Spear: Evening and there was morning marking the first day. Okay. Here is the first day. Morning and evening marking the first day. It took us five verses to get there. It won't take us many verses for the others, right? But if but if you when you and I or when any person is trying to understand a tough problem, trying to find answers, trying to to get a deeper understanding, one of the things we first have to figure out is what we don't know.

Jeff Ward: us five verses to get there. It won't take as many verses for others, right? But if but if you when you and I or when any person is trying to understand a tough problem, trying to find answers, trying to to get a deeper understanding, one of the things we first have to figure out is what we don't know. I know that sounds funny, but if you just start with you know you're probably not going to get to the answer. But you have to write all right here's the problem. Okay, what do we not know?

Randy Spear: I know that sounds funny, but if you just start with you know, you're probably not going to get to the answer. But you have to write, all right, here's the problem. Okay, what do we not know? And then we never know everything that we don't know, right? And sometimes we'll find as we dig into stuff, trying to answer the questions we don't know, we'll find stuff we also don't know, or more things. So I put our list is never complete, but what are some of the things as we look at this that we don't know here? As we're looking at first verse one.

Jeff Ward: And then we never know everything that we don't know, right? And sometimes we'll find as we dig into stuff, trying to answer questions we don't know, we'll find stuff we also don't know, or more things. So I put our list is never complete, but what are some of the things as we look at this that we don't know here? As we're looking at first verse one,

Randy Spear: What is it in these first verses? What do we not know? First of all, we have no idea the time between verse one and verse two. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, verse two. Now the earth was without shape and empty, and it continues there. So we don't know. There's no time frame given there. What else? here's a question. When was water created?

Jeff Ward: What is it in in these first verses? What do we not know? First of all, we have no idea the time between verse 1 and verse 2. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Verse 2. Now the earth was without shape and empty, and it continues there. So we don't know. There's no time frame given there. what else? here's a question. When was water created?

Randy Spear: Because the first indication in verse two is there's already a watery deep. So that's that's we don't know. And then this doesn't answer. what about the time frame from verse two to three? There's no there's no time frame associated there. Right. We don't know. When was time created? We're not told. Time is a created thing. Okay?

Jeff Ward: Because the first indication in verse 2 is there's already a watery deep. Right. So that's that's we don't know. Then this doesn't answer. what about the time frame from verse 2 to 3? There's no there's no time frame associated there. Right. We don't know. When was time created? We're not told. Time is a created thing. Okay. When was three-dimensional space created? We're not told. Water needs to exist within three-dimensional space, at least by our understanding of it. So it was created before the water, but we don't when the water was. Three-dimensional space also implies time. And certainly water would have to exist in time. So time has already been created.

Randy Spear: When was three dimensional space created? We're not told. Water needs to exist within three dimensional space, at least by our understanding of it. So it was created before the water, but we don't know when the water was. Three dimensional space also implies time. And certainly water would have to exist in time. So time has already been created. or here's another question or is water, three dimensional space and time, eternal?

Jeff Ward: Here's another question. Or is water, three dimensional space and time, eternal? Are they not created things? I'll tell you they are not eternal. They are created. first of all, you would violate the rule, the violate the laws of thermo thermodynamics, that would be a violation of

Randy Spear: Are they not created things? I would tell you they're not eternal. They are created. first of all, you would violate the rule the violate the laws of thermal thermodynamics. That would be a violation of if they've been existed infinitely in the past, because the law of thermal mod thermodynamics would say eventually everything turns to zero and go gets cold and it's water.

Jeff Ward: if they've been existed infinitely in the past, because the law of thermal mod thermodynamics would say eventually everything turns to zero and go gets cold and it's water. what about hydrogen and oxygen? H2O is water. If they existed internally eternally, why not all the elements? Right. if time doesn't have a beginning, and I can prove this but I won't take time to prove it, but the proof is is to me is intriguing.

Randy Spear: what about hydrogen and oxygen? H2O is water. If they existed internally, eternally, why not all the elements? if time doesn't have a beginning, and I can prove this, but I won't take time to prove it, but the proof is is to me is intriguing. But if time has a doesn't have a beginning, then we can never get to today. If time did not have a beginning, it goes eternally. Because here's why in the proof, I won't go in the proof of this.

Jeff Ward: But if time has a doesn't have a beginning, then we can never get to today. If time did not have a beginning, it goes eternally. Because here's why in the proof, I won't go in the proof of this, but you cannot have an actual

Randy Spear: But you cannot have an actual number or an actual set of infinite things. So if time is eternal, then we actually going backwards have an infinite set of seconds and you could that was that's impossible to have and we would never be able to get to today.

Jeff Ward: number or an actual set of infinite things. So if time is eternal then we actually going backwards have an infinite set of seconds and you c that was that's impossible to have you can't get there. Never be able to get to today. Yeah.

Randy Spear: I put here, these are holes left by God in the description of creation. This could be some of the answers. There's room here for an old universe. Would you agree? There's room in these things that we don't know to go, yep, there could be an old it could be an old universe. But I do lean young, but that's you do lean young. That's okay. You're a young leaning guy. let's see. But yeah, there's a lot in here you go, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

Jeff Ward: Here. These are holes left by God in the description of creation. This could be some of the answers. There's room here for an old universe. Would you agree? There's room in these things that we don't know. You go, yeah, there could be an old it could be an old universe. But I do lean young, but that's okay. You're a young leaning guy. let's see. But yeah, there's a lot in here that you go, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. So what would

Randy Spear: So what would humility would say let's be open to a l differ thing. Let's keep our boundaries in mind. Let's keep in mind there might be different opinions. Science has its limitations. Certainly if it's backed by billions of dollars, we definitely want to question it. Religion is generally backed by a false religious power, or can be, not generally, can be, and so it it can distort things. wherever there's power of any sort, there's distortions.

Jeff Ward: Humility would say let's be open to a exactly let's keep our boundaries in mind. Exactly. Let's keep in mind there might be different opinions. Yep. Science has its limitations. Certainly, if it's backed by billions of dollars, we definitely want to question it. Religion is generally backed by a false religious power, or can be, not can be, and so it it can distort things. Right. wherever there's power of any sort, there's distortions. I put here, so

Randy Spear: I put here, so prior to day four, what's the source of light? Because the sun's not created until day four. Yeah. what's the length of the first days? This is when you get into, well, there's 24-hour days. Okay.

Jeff Ward: to day four, what's the source of light? Because the sun's not created until day four. Yeah. what's the length of the first days? This is when you get into well there's 24 hour days. Okay.

Randy Spear: Well, if there's no earth and there's no sun, or the earth is formless and there is no sun, there's no orbital mechanics going on, there's no spinning of the earth, there's no sun to

Jeff Ward: Well if there's no earth and there's no sun or the earth is formless and there is no sun, there's no orbital mechanics going on, there's no spinning of the earth, there's no sun to if the even if there was spinning of the earth, what's the length of a day? Right. Again, we don't know, so let's not just, you know, pummel people, but let's help us try to understand this. Sure. this is day one. How long is this day? I don't know.

Randy Spear: if there even if there was spinning of the earth, what's the length of a day? Right. Again, we don't know, so let's not just, you know, pummel people, but let's help us try to understand this. this is day one. How long is this day? I don't know. We're not really told, but it's interesting that does say that was morning and evening. Right. well that must be twenty four hours, yeah. But morning and evening is created by hadn't been created yet the way we understand morning and evening.

Jeff Ward: But it's interesting that does say that was morning and evening. Alright. well that must be 24 hours, yeah. But morning and evening is created by hadn't been created yet the way we understand morning and evening. okay, so let's keep going. I I haven't said anything here. Let me see if we need to say anything here.

Randy Spear: Okay, so let's keep going. I I haven't said anything here. Let me see if we need to say anything here.

Jeff Ward: Saw the light and it was good.

Randy Spear: Saw the light and it was good. He separated the light from darkness, but he doesn't tell us how. This earth was without shape and empty and it had water on it, but that's about all he's t tells. We don't even know the shape of it after first day.

Jeff Ward: He separated the light from darkness, but he doesn't tell us how. This earth was without shape and empty and it had water on it, but that's about all he's to tell us. We don't even know the shape of it after first day. let's keep going. How about six through eight? Let me ask a question. Yeah. You asked the question of where'd the light come from? Mm-hmm. And in the we know in the new heaven and new earth there'll be no need for light because it'll come from God himself. huh. Yeah.

Randy Spear: Let's keep going. How about six through eight? Let me ask a question. Yeah. You asked the question of where'd the light come from? Mm-hmm. And in the we know in the new heaven new earth no need for light because it'll come from God Himself. Uh-huh. Yeah. of the light could be a source of light. I've even heard the idea that darkness is evil and light is good, and that's what it's talking about. You know, there's some sort of if you read Ezekiel and some of these places

Jeff Ward: That could be the source of light. That could be a source of light. Yeah. I've even heard the idea that darkness is evil and light is good, and that's what it's talking about. You know, there's some sort of if you read Ezekiel and some of these places, that they'll they'll contend and probably rightfully so, that there was a whole section of creation probably between verse one and verse two. Right. Satan might have been in charge of the physical world and and when he fell

Randy Spear: that th they'll they'll contend and probably rightfully so that there was a whole section of creation probably between verse one and verse two where Satan might have been in charge of the physical world and and when he fell, it turned into chaos. Water is a picture of chaos. And you know, the sea, if you go look in the sea in in prophetic language is is either the Gentiles or chaos is is the way the sea represents. So this could be talking about evil has

Jeff Ward: it turned into chaos. Water is a picture of chaos. Yeah. And you know the sea if you go look in the sea in in prophetic language is is either the Gentiles or chaos is yeah is the way the sea represents. So this could be talking about evil has totally trashed the earth till the point that there's nothing left and it's in total chaos and God shows up with light. It could be that. Right. and then some of the other words

Randy Spear: Totally trash the earth till the point that there's nothing left and it's in total chaos and then God shows up with light. It could be that. and then some of the other words make all those bring all those into question. Yeah. You know, I mean i and one verse you get it, okay, I got that figured out, and you the next finger, go wait minute, maybe I got I d maybe I don't have that figured out. Because then he's come back separated the light from the darkness. What does that mean? Because in the New Testament

Jeff Ward: Make all those bring all those into question. Yep. You know, I mean at one verse you get it, okay I got that figured out and you the next figure, or wait a minute, maybe I got I d maybe I don't have that figure out. Yeah. 'Cause then he's kinda separated the light from the darkness. What does that mean? Because in the New Testament

Randy Spear: And then when you're talking about in the spirit realm, when the light shows up, there is no darkness. It's not separated, it's gone. It's disappeared. So how does that mean separate? You know, I mean, so so that's you start to bump up against issues with with with g if light is good and darkness is bad and darkness is Satan his kingdom and light is God and God's and his son's kingdom. So yeah.

Jeff Ward: And then when you're talking about the spirit realm, when the light shows up, there is no darkness. It's not separated, it's gone. Yep. It's disappeared. Yep. So how does that mean to separate you know, I mean, so so that's you start to bump up against issues with Sure. With with g if light is good and darkness is bad and darkness is Satan his kingdom and light is God and God's and his son's kingdom. So yeah.

Randy Spear: let's go to that's when he spun the earth. It could have been. He went

Jeff Ward: Wonder if that's when he spun the earth. It could have been boom. He wouldn't

Randy Spear: phoom like a basketball on your finger. I think it's day four. But anyway. Read six and eight. This is day two, six, seven, and eight.

Jeff Ward: Like a basketball entertainment. day four. But anyway. Yeah. Read six and eight. This is day two, six, seven, and eight. Okay. We are at forty minutes, forty two. Okay. Wanna do one more section? What do you think?

Randy Spear: I say we stop here. Okay. And pick up. If you wanna stop. Yeah, so we stop here and this will be s we'll pick back up at verse six.

Jeff Ward: I say we stop here. Okay. And pick up. Awesome. If you want to stop. Yeah, so we stop here and this will be we'll pick back up at verse six. Awesome. Okay. Good stuff. I'm excited. This is intriguing. I love the science behind it.

Randy Spear: Good stuff. I'm excited. This is intriguing. I love the science behind it.

Jeff Ward: And how we how we meld it all together is really, really is really good. So I love the I mean I like science. I like

Randy Spear: I love the I mean I like science, I like cre you know, exploration and stuff and to know that there's a God who is creative. Yeah. And so we can be too. Yeah. And I don't I'll say something, this this probably not be weird. don't be weird. In the future I mean I think so I often say one thing I wanted to do but I will not get to do in this life.

Jeff Ward: cre you know, exploration and stuff and to know that there's a God who is creative. Yeah. And so we can be too. And I don't I'll say something, this this probably gonna be weird, but in the future, I mean I think so I often say one thing I wanted to do, but I will not get to do in this life is ride a rocket to space. And I often say, Man, one day I will. One day on our new earth then I'll get to do that.

Randy Spear: One day you will. You may do it without a rocket. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I mean it'll be a new heaven and a new earth. It'll be interesting to see. Explore and do things on the earth.

Jeff Ward: This is true. I don't know, but I think many heaven and yeah, and to think that we'll explore and do things on the new earth. I know we're gonna praise the Lord, so I'm not diminishing that. I think that's by doing we praise him by doing the purpose he created for. Yes. And you cannot deny that mankind is made to explore. Yes. So if we're made to explore, that's not going away from the new heaven and earth. That's gonna be magnified and expanded on the new heaven and the

Randy Spear: no. But we praise him by doing we appraise him by doing the purpose he created for. Yes. And you cannot deny that mankind is made to explore. We're made to do other things too. So if we're made to explore, that's not going away on the new heaven and new earth. That's going to be magnified and expanded on the new heaven and the new earth. You might not be you might r be riding a rocket ship to galaxies un unheard of and it might not be a rocket ship you may have

Jeff Ward: Yeah, yeah. You might not be you might ru be riding a rocket ship to galaxies un unheard of and it might not be a rocket ship. You may have you

Randy Spear: You know, we may fold space and you just step across into the next galaxy and then that's your galaxy to figure out and we were gonna wanna

Jeff Ward: know we may fold space and you just step across into the next galaxy and then that's your galaxy to figure out and we're gonna want

Randy Spear: report from you in eight thousand years what you found out. Yeah. You know, who knows? I don't know. We're I think we'll be explorers. And we won't be, you know, playing harps floating on clouds.

Jeff Ward: From you in yeah eight thousand years what you found out. Yeah. Yeah, who knows? I don't know. I think we'll be explorers. Yeah. We won't be, you know, playing harps floating on clouds right in a he in heaven and just that's all there is. Right. I mean, you you gotta read Revelation. There's a new heaven and a new earth. Right. And we populate and are members of on the new earth.

Randy Spear: in a he in heaven and just that's all there is. I mean, w you you gotta read Revelation. There's a new heaven and a new earth and we populate and are members of on the new earth.

Jeff Ward: Yeah. I think we're good I think we're new heaven too, but there's no need because God has come down and lived lives amongst us in the Jerusalem. So Right. Ooh, yeah, okay, that's a different so that's the other end of the book. Yeah. Revelation. Yeah. That's neat. It's exciting. That's good. All right, Randy.

Randy Spear: I think we can I think we're in new heaven too, but there's no need because God has come down and lived lives amongst us in the new Jerusalem. So yeah, okay, that's a different so that's the other end of the book. Revelation. Okay. Don't get me confused. We're at the front of the book. That's good.

Jeff Ward: Thanks a bunch.

Randy Spear: Yeah.