Scynthea: Welcome to Uplift Unleashed. I'm Scynthea Ratliff and today I'm joined by my co-founders, Marisa and Henry. Today's podcast exists to create conversation around career realities that people are navigating but are rarely talked about. Today's conversation is about... Navigating career uncertainty. Today accomplished professionals are struggling right now. You're experienced, you're capable and performing, but with the environment being as unstable as it is, it's becoming difficult. We are going to explore why so many professionals are struggling to articulate their value, navigate career transitions, and differentiate themselves ⁓ you listen, we invite you to give your own perspectives Why do think so many professionals are finding the moment so difficult to navigate? Henry, is it so difficult for ⁓ to articulate their value after having years of experience? What do you think that comes from?

Henry: One of the biggest reasons, at least I believe, is that most professionals were taught to intentionally speak about their value. When I first entered the workforce, I ⁓ was just excited to have gotten an engineering job. was something thrilling for me. I made it. I actually got the I worked there about eight years. I enjoyed what I did. ⁓ studied what I was passionate about. I got the job. I'm it. I'm crushing it. I was also raised to let the work speak for itself. I began navigating my career not necessarily being intentional. there was never mentorship to indicate That should be tracking what my value is. That I should be keeping inventory of what my skills are. my capabilities, but continuing to upgrade them. I think what happens is you have different people from ⁓ different strokes life, and some ⁓ could be they become complacent at where they're at, and may invest in themselves, but don't keep stock in track of it or don't know how to articulate it And it's hard, Because we're talking about communication. communication works both ways. You have to be able to articulate your value in a way that someone else can understand it, interpret it, and see that value. I think it gets harder ⁓ as you go up the people right now are going through their reviews, they're waiting for the person that's gonna review them to tell them what their value is, to tell them, I see you. to give them the acknowledgement, the pat on the back, the promotion, then when it doesn't happen, your expectations are not met, and now you're surprised. Why did it not happen? you're asking that question, and you're frustrated, perhaps. I think that if ⁓ we're more intentional and more proactive reactive, we know the answer to all those questions before we even go into the review. because we've identified who we are, we've identified what our strengths are, what our weaknesses are, what is our strategy as far as how we wanna grow in our career, what is it that we want, and we've been keeping stock of those things such that if it doesn't align with the person across the table, we're able to articulate it and change that ⁓ change that belief that is with that reviewer. I mean, that's my two cents. don't know, Marisa, what would you add to that?

Marisa: I agree with you. You have to know yourself and your identity. What ⁓ are you at and what do you deliver? What outcomes have you delivered within the current period? But I think there's two sides to this. ⁓ You work an organization. What are the organizational goals and how ⁓ you fitting that so that when you tell your story, it resonates with the higher ups?

Henry: Mm.

Marisa: whether that's your boss or senior leadership or whoever it is, on the influence that you want to have to make. you have to translate often, Henry, what you are saying about your career strategy into the terms that matter to them.

Henry: That's a fair point. lost sight of that one. at the end of the day, you're serving someone else. there is an impact and value that you need to bring to that strategy. It isn't necessarily about you. You're just bringing that service, and they're your customer. how are you serving that customer? What is it that you're providing in addition? to value. that's the other thing that I think people get caught up. done a lot of reviews myself. there's a of folks that I didn't promote, honestly. this is going to sound harsh. want to get paid more for doing the same job. I don't think that's fair, You can't expect a to pay you more for doing the same job. How have you increased your value? How have you increased your impact? be able to articulate that, and be able to speak it with examples of how you've done that. not able to do that, then you're surprised as far as the result.

Scynthea: I would agree. I think if you're transitioning to other organizations there's a broader step that you to take because you ⁓ typically have worked across many organizations you've working hard. But I think a lot of times we don't think of our contributions and what we do ⁓ in the space of value. we look at as what we respond responsible for and what was expected of me. I think that's one of the challenges I've had throughout my career is focusing on ⁓ and solving problems Whereas over time, it was a part of who I was instead of taking that step back into broader transitions and being able to articulate that value based on the circumstance that I'm interviewing for if it's a new position.

Henry: I it's differentiation, Because it's not just about the work you do and how fast you do it or how great you do it, but how you do it, meaning I used to ⁓ manage multiple engineers ⁓ as a VP of engineering one time. I different engineers that all highly capable highly skilled, top grade A. But each them did it. They did their work. They showed up. They did it. they would go home. Then you had those that were multipliers. They would come in. they would do the work, but they would also build connection. They would also build community. They would also build passion among the engineers. those stood out because they showed leadership qualities. I'm not saying everyone has to do that, but know What is the value that you're bringing to a company? Marisa says, how does that differentiating with the strategy of the company and where they're going? Why do they need that? that's valuable to know. I think is to know in addition to the value.

Scynthea: I agree. what shifted for me was realizing that experience alone, especially when you're transitioning organizations in this time, isn't enough anymore. People need to be to translate how they lead, how they think, how they create impact in the environments that they're in, especially in changing times,

Henry: Exactly.

Scynthea: Marisa, why do you accomplished professionals often struggle to navigate career transitions?

Marisa: you go out through your career, you tend to spend time longer within an organization and you just get comfortable. some things that you might not know became habits. consciously or unconsciously are pretty woven into how you operate. part of that is the culture of the organization you're a part of became ingrained in you and might not have necessarily best served you. when you're transitioning to something new, shifting that frame is difficult at times, especially if you become very comfortable. how do you shift yourself into the new transition spot? Because there are new expectations coming every day, especially in the world that we're in right now, as well as the organization you're trying to fit into. Really understanding the culture you're going into and the translation, which is not an easy task. It's beyond, EQ. It's not just being self-aware about yourself, but also trying to translate what is the culture you're going into and what assumptions are you making in your perspective that you're taking for granted. I have many examples of this throughout my career, like not being able to read the tea leaves. I tend to say that I think I have good EQ, I missed the mark several times. understanding what is normal for them ⁓ is what is normal in your mind. Henry mentions performance reviews, for instance. I know there was one organization I came into, I implemented a mid-year. Mid-year was normal to me. Throughout multiple organizations I've been a part of until I joined this new one. that sent a signal of panic to my teams. that really was a mistranslation. mid-year is normal. You would want to know where you stand mid-year, because you still have the second half of the year to actually adapt to. I think the difficulty, Scynthea, is understanding the rules of engagement and putting them on the table and picking. If want change, you can't change everything overnight. What are some of the things that you might prioritize as you continue to get to know the new organization as well as the ever-changing needs that's happening in our technology landscape today?

Scynthea: Right. I think it's also around understanding if you're transitioning and you're looking for opportunities. really being able to position contribution and how you ⁓ lead to ⁓ the organization that you're looking to interview with. it's about how capable ⁓ are you. They're looking at how can help us achieving the goals that we have the coming years. Henry, what do you think? Go ahead.

Henry: the answer depends and it's complex than it sounds because there's different types of transitions. There's a transition where perhaps I'm going into leadership, at which point you have to ask yourself, is that something you want? Because there is a trade-off and you have to be OK with that trade-off. then there's the horizontal transition where it's like into a new function or a new industry. Is it the right industry? Do you really want to go into there? Have you explored that industry? Is the company that you're moving into, as far as what they're working towards, aligned with your beliefs and values? then there's the reinvention transition, where someone completely redefines themselves. that's a bigger one, because again, what are you redefining yourself to? I think there are hard questions for each of those. I think sometimes when people struggle is when they weren't intentional in these transitions. I've had folks that have left my team and I've worried about them. I've even consulted them on the exit. Not because I was being selfish because I wanted to keep them. Mostly because I didn't want them to end up worse than where they were because they didn't ask themselves the hard questions. They thought it wasn't working for them at the company that they were, but really it wasn't the company. It was them. They haven't asked themselves, what is it that I want? And maybe the company they were working for wasn't the right company. But because they haven't answered that question, they're just prolonging the issue. They're moving those with them to the next organization. ⁓ I think when we talk about the struggle and navigating career, no matter what the transition is, I think it goes back to identity. I believe that you need to know who you are. You need to know what you want. You need to be aligned with those things centered, like truly believe them. Don't just say them. Actually be, ⁓ yourself in court, knowing your, your limiting beliefs, things that are holding you back, but also in your power, your empowering beliefs, the things that like pull you forward. then I think it ⁓ moves there. ⁓ Once uncovered that, I think you're ahead of the game. once you know that, start, you know how to brand yourself. if you don't know who yourself ⁓ is, do you market yourself? What are you marketing? You have no identity right now, if you start branding yourself towards what you believe in, what you want, then you're gonna attract the very things that ⁓ are aligned to you. you won't attract them. You you guys know that I'm working on this business I'm working on the marketing. the first question asking myself is, ⁓ what customer do want to attract to my business? know what customer I want to attract, I need to know what brand am I trying to create. in order to know what brand I'm trying to create, I need to know what identity am I forming for that business. I think it's the same for people, I think we are unlocking that. I hope folks look into it is that this Unleash Your Authentic Self program that we've created, I believe, helps with that, right? Because people are able to rationalize all that. then from there, move on to the next step. ⁓

Scynthea: I think that next step sits in the strategy, To me, you have to have ⁓ that in place to navigate and to articulate yourself as you navigate. ⁓ Career helps with that from a professional perspective. But then when you put your strategy together, it's much more intentional. as you're starting to unlock the network that you have, you are much more articulate on what your goals are and what you're trying to achieve. ⁓ as as positioning yourself effectively.

Henry: it gives you the confidence. It removes the uncertainty, right? Because ⁓ you know who are and you know what you want, then it more tangible. You can grab right? But if you're unable to articulate that, then how do you know you're finding it?

Marisa: Just think about this. spent so much ⁓ our waking hours trying to figure out how to make the right decisions for the businesses in which we lead, but we don't put that kind of intention into managing our own lives and making the career decisions that want to make. how do you have a strategy without knowing what you value, what your mission and purpose is? Then it kind of feeds into your career to say, I want to create a life that I want to live.

Henry: Very true. Yeah, that's right.

Scynthea: you

Marisa: Because our time on this earth is limited and precious.

Henry: Mm.

Scynthea: I believe that, differentiation is a big part of that, like you said, Henry, well as, professionals need to be able to not only ⁓ look at skills they need to be to articulate how they think, how solve problems, and be able to communicate the value that they bring very clearly. I think that where differentiated myself was helping people understand my judgment, adaptability, resilience. As well as building trust, I think that people underestimate that. harder for people to articulate that because our roles and what we do become embedded in how we operate. We don't stop to recognize our differentiated strengths. I think that's one of the challenges professionals have today The market is forcing people to not just identify what they do, but what uniquely changes because they've joined them.

Henry: I've had folks that aspire to be a director. they're very talented individuals, haven't quite developed the EQ. Some are still at that operator level and really haven't... haven't unlocked themselves to be ready for that next level. sometimes the organization isn't ready for you. Meaning that capacity at the director level, the opportunity doesn't exist. Now, right now we live in a very difficult market because be real, it is. It's very saturated. We have these ⁓ the aftermath the pandemic. ⁓ our have been consolidating in several verticals. a lot of companies have found themselves in difficult positions because they're unable to provide opportunities what do you do ⁓ in that case? How do you move ⁓ would advise people to do is have resilience. maybe the company that you're at doesn't have the opportunity for I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily. what that gives you is if you have a job right now, and you're getting paid for the value that you deliver, you're probably ahead of the game that a lot of people that are in the market right now, because you can use that time and capacity that you have, that energy, into continuing to invest yourself to find that opportunity, whether it comes shows up in that company that you're at, or you find it elsewhere. that's an advantage. always ⁓ look for the opportunity in the situation that you're

Marisa: You have to intentionally prioritize that you want invest in this before it becomes the moment that you have to make the move.

Henry: That's true, right? Don't be reactive. with you on that one. You have to be proactive.

Marisa: Be more proactive, like figuring out what is it that you value? What do you believe?

Henry: you do that, when you do that, ⁓ I think a lot, a of times what frustrates people when they're in this position, and I'm sure there's a lot of people dealing with frustration right now, is when you don't know what that next step is. You don't know what to do and you feel stuck. the truth is you're not stuck. the emotional aspects of what you're feeling clouds your mind that you can't see clearly. and it doesn't generate the opportunities that are in front of you. Because the truth is, there are opportunities. There are million opportunities. you just have to be proactive. have to them, and you have to know what you are, know who you are, know what you and then figure out the strategy for yourself on what those opportunities Whether it's in the company, understanding what the company's trying accomplish. What are they trying to accomplish? And then what gap are they missing? At the end of the day, these companies are being run by people, they may have missed something. if you can find that opportunity within the company, guess what? You can create a position for yourself. it may not happen immediately. I know we live in this world of instant gratification, but it may not happen immediately. Maybe you see the gap. You sit down with an executive and you say, hey, how did you think about this? How are you working towards it? Tell me a little bit more. What challenge are you facing right now? How can I help with that? That way you're not expecting only the company to do for you. You're looking to provide value to them. guess what? You just differentiated yourself.

Marisa: Scynthea, we talk about this all the time, right? we spent many years, many decades of our career trying to figure out how to navigate up and not realizing we had to explore more parts of ourselves than we were willing to. We had the results and outcomes, but we didn't know what we wanted. a part of it sometimes is not knowing what is possible. But before you go to what is possible,

Henry: Mm-hmm.

Marisa: It's figuring out what is inside here. Super important the foundation. I think about the foundation ⁓ how do you stack up your life to be the life that you are so proud of when you look forward and back. You honor your history. I tell people in transition all the time, honor where they were, the team that you're joining, whatever you're leading, honor where they were. Acknowledge where we are, ask a of questions. and then make a plan to move forward with a vision. It's the same thing we advise our clients of at Uplift All, let's ⁓ your foundational identity. We're gonna honor your history. I don't believe in regrets. I think that we have to own the shame that we feel at any given point in time. That that's not a feeling that ⁓ want anyone to have. But we have to address what does that mean? what is it? ⁓ the fear and the shame and put it in front of you so that you can move forward with a life of intention and a plan towards your vision. I think it's easy for a lot of people to create visions, Like, you ask most people. I'm guessing that more than 70 to 80 % of people say that they have a vision of their life or they've created one at one point in time. But that continuum is the differentiation that uplift all brings in life navigation. is that we know that you have to build the foundation of yourself. We want to make sure you feel seen, heard, and have a community that you can come to, that you're not alone.

Henry: I just about to add to that, you beat to the punchline, Marisa, as the community, right? Because the truth is, chances are someone else has come across the challenge you're facing. Or you actually have created that that intentional strategy, but you don't know it's gonna work, right? how can you validate it? How can you fail fast? ⁓ or as others might say, learn fast on whether or not it's the right intentional strategy. it's bouncing off others, like having conversations and figuring out. And I would have to say, at least for me, ⁓ time I put a strategy, it's a strategy. There's no guarantees that it's going to work. I think you ⁓ can the gap quicker. if you've spoken to others that have been there. It's like the quote that people say, you want to be a millionaire, go and speak to millionaires, right? I think it's the same thing. It's like, if ⁓ a role that you have in mind, a position, then go speak to the folks that have actually already lived that, chances are each of them, you're going to see a thing across those things, if you're at an organization, that you are trying to get to director, well, go speak to the directors that are there already. you? They're going to tell you the environment you're in. They're going to tell you what it's going to take get to that level. How did they get to that level? How are they executing that level? I think there has to be some humility in the process as well with respect to that.

Scynthea: Developing the skills and the strengths that are required for that next level. remember just flashbacks. remember probably about years ago being at another organization and always sitting in front of our senior leader and she was wonderful and she would come up with ideas on how I could navigate my career there and it just never really landed and it wasn't her. I think she was wonderful. It was more around to your comments and what we've been talking about today. I wasn't grounded in myself understand the strategy that I wanted to take forward I coach and mentor a lot of people. are the same challenges that I see ⁓ in professionals. it's work. think that you can just come up with something. ⁓ It's not just up with something. For you to move up in an organization ⁓ or gain the set for a role that you want to accomplish, you have to understand what it is going take, what is expected, and understand where you need to reach. position your skills or strengths to be able to meet that obligation when the opportunity comes. this was wonderful conversation today. A lot of professionals are quietly navigating more uncertainty than I think people realize. So if this conversation resonated with you, we would love to hear from you. What are you navigating right now and what conversation do you think people aren't Having openly enough. You can continue the conversation with us on YouTube, LinkedIn. You can even come inside our Uplift All community. Thank you for being a part of the conversation in advance. Marisa and Henry, thank you so much for your insights. You're both wonderful. I learn more every time I talk to you, learn more about you as well. So this is always a pleasure.