Ben Reynard: Right, we're back. The third down polls. I feel like I'm outside of there now, so I'm like I'll start my comfort zone. But we have with us CLA, which to me is like the dream of the hobby. You two. And I think I've said it to you before. Like father-son going around buying and selling. It does feel like it's it's a real wholesome thing. So if you'd like to introduce yourself, do you want to put Charlie on the spot first? Well, let's put Charlie on the spot. Yeah, go on, Charlie. Tell us all about yourself. ⁓ I'm Charlie. I am I would say the CEO of CLA Cards. And this is She's dear. ⁓ admin cleaner, finance director, everything else apart from the CEO. I've moved your business card next time. So how did you guys start? Where where did you where'd the idea come from? So it really where it started was me getting my first job. as a paper boy making twenty five pound a week doing every single day apart from Saturday. Yeah. Waking up six six in the morning till yeah, till seven thirty, then having to go to school. And just built up a bank role. Yeah. And then just watched a couple of went on YouTube. Yeah. Watched Card Collector Two Video. A couple of others great influencers and then Found eBay, found whatnot, bought a couple of cards here or there, then saw a London card show video and said to dad, can we go? When we're free. That's it. Were you clipping while you're doing your paper on then or were you watching I was I was buying a couple of small patch patches cards on eBay, mostly small two, three pound cards. Obviously I've had a background of buying match attacks. Yeah. As every kid has in the UK. But yeah. It it just like I I wasn't I wasn't spending my paper and money on anything like I enjoyed and I wanted to do that. Yeah. So I found that in cards. Yeah. And then seeing the videos Diane start thought you can make a bit more of it and then go from there. Yeah. Did you enter the shows thinking you can make something on this or was it just a matter of I think it was just getting some nice cards just to have and look at. Yeah. At what point did it turn into More than hobby. Some of you, Kamim. I I th I think what what was for me what was really interesting, Ch Charlie clearly loved cards and got massively into NFL as well at the same time, playing Madden actually on PlayStation. So that was his introduction into American football. We started going to a few shows, sports plus so and he was clearly, you know, I was taking him there Clearly he was enjoying it. I had I honestly didn't have a clue at that time. But I I got the feeling that he really started to pick up the the right cards to buy. Yeah. clearly had an eye for buying cards that he liked. And then I think what happened was I think he didn't have he didn't he he ran out of money off to buy a card and I said, ⁓ well look, you know, I'll I'll give you twenty quid if you want to buy that card. Off Charlie, wasn't it? Yeah. It's off Charlie Aces actually. and he he bought this card and we then transpired it. It was worth a bit more than it than it was. And I think he just went from there. He's he started ⁓ buying cards and then traded them all ⁓ the Just did card shows. Yeah. A little bit on whatnot here or there. Yeah. Of when I found the ideal. No. And just I think it got to the point where he was I c I could clearly see he had a knack of buying cards that were were were ⁓ were were nice. ⁓ stuff which was PC stuff as well. Yeah. ⁓ but it just it just went from there really. ⁓ nothing nothing specific. And then we just I think we picked up a really nice and I know that we've jumped from a twenty pound card. We pinked up a really nice German Montana. Pandora. PSA ten downtown. Before the downtown market had properly, probably skyrocketed. Yeah. And traded a lot of cards into it and got just got a great deal. and it was like one of those things where we we had fifty pound cards and this eight hundred pound car with the time. And I think that was the trigger of that was the start. Why don't we why don't we get a table and bend? Yeah. that was probably about what Twelve months, eighteen months between the two. Yeah, about twelve months. Twelve months from going to card shows collecting to and to vend first ⁓ table. That's pretty quick sort of growth then, from sort of first time vending in person or doing your deals in person to Well, I think it's mostly because of the kindness of people at card shows and yeah how genuine they are. They they will have a good conversation with you. Yeah. While giving you a fair deal where they profit and you will profit on. Yeah, I remember I can't remember anyone who cards shows a go, but you you look so smart. I think we're taking a feature somewhere to dig out. You look so small compared to now. And seeing you reel a deal in then. And I think it is that sort of it's what you want as like if I look back to being a teenager, that's what I'd be wanting to do. And to see someone to have the confidence and doing NFL in the UK is quite a niche to do it in. If you look around, there's not many people doing just NFL cards to the success that you're doing it without breaking, without doing it different ways. I think that's a testament to you as well by how much you're putting into it. And we speak every time you've got a show and there's always something new. You're always seeing you try to progress that thing. And I think that it's it's really cool to see, especially an NFL phone. No, no, thank you. Yeah. I think we put lot of I I think the other key thing you said, it's happened quickly. I think a lot of people don't. recognise the amount you gotta put in and I think you get a few people that you see for one or two shows and they would come and come into the that scene and it's primarily to make money. Yeah. And you see them for a couple of shows and then they're gone. Yeah. Because I think they start to realise it's more than just the deal. You've got to put a lot of effort in backgrounds, whether or not you're sourcing online, whether or not you're engaging with people. But it's a nice thing that you said around every show we always want to do something. Yeah. It's something new. Move it forward. Yeah. Yeah, obviously so as it's working. It's by the progression you're having and things like the table now compared to I think even twelve months ago is is staggering to see what you get. Every time you are bastards, look at this, look at this. And it's never something small. And there's a lot of cool patches, things like that. And I think when it comes to a hobby like this and the growth, it's a lifestyle. I think I don't know if you're like a like one of the last things you check when you go to bed is the last lot of your deals. First thing when you get up, I've got one anything. And I think it's it's easy to do that for a few months. It's harder to do it for six, twelve, eighteen months where you've got to put your growth in. Yeah. And especially when the the shows stack up, you've got to have that inventory cycling through because you can't go to the same show with the same stuff. Three different shows are the same things in three weeks. So how is it working together then? See it must be an interesting dynamic. There's a lot of a lot of miles, a lot of driving. And I'm very thankful for him to drive me because ⁓ without that I would not be able to go to the shows. I I I think I think it's an interesting dynamic. Yeah. I think it's an interesting dynamic. I think I think he's gonna say the same thing as me. ⁓ openly, doing what we do, being in the car as much as we are, and getting to shows and the working together is probably the best thing about it. Yeah, is doing it together. He he is absolutely I think that the person who knows more about the hobby than I I am. I'm the person who does a lot of the background stuff. We were joking. I mean, he he ⁓ i he he said to me yesterday evening, ⁓ we've run out of mags. I said, I could see we were gonna run out of mags two days ago though. But you know, I didn't do anything to see whether or not he'd say but he'd run out of mags and then said, We've run out of mags. So that's the type of thing that we we get Yeah w we we have but I I I think it's ⁓ it it's I I always say that he's the boss and he is absolutely a boss and that's the way that it needs to it needs to be. But there's times when I sort of say, actually I'm not quite sure that's the right thing to do. And just sort of pull it back a little bit. Does it and like if I'm struggling at at a show of some sort of thing, I always go to you. Yeah. Yeah. But I I think the other thing as well And I I'm gonna I'm gonna say to I'm gonna shout out to Charlie Aces as well because he he he was a really important part of what happened with no w with us in the hobby. ⁓ where and it's still today every not only every show that we do, we want to do something new. Yep. Every show that we do, I want to take one step back. Yeah. And Charlie's doing more and more. Yeah. ⁓ and I think that's an important part of the up always having those discussions with Charlie at the early days where trying to get a little bit of advice of how to do that. but it's about it's a growth opportunity, I think, for him as an individual. Yes. Completely agree. Yeah. Do you have an end goal to this? I know we speak about it a few times at shows again. Do you have a now it's getting to this sort of scales? Do you have an idea or is it just see where it ends up? I would say my end goal. is obviously see how it goes. Yeah. But I would say to become a a figure in the hobby that can be trusted, wanted, and just be a a good person in general to anyone new, anyone old in the hobby, just just give a deal when possible. Yeah. How old are you again? I am seventeen, turning eighteen. Gee tell me about five five for that was that was like a bet on it. That was that was a It's really cool to see. I is that because of your experience in it or is that from I think just the way I've been brought up to be honest. Yeah. From this man. And obviously I would say he works with lots of customers at work and you can see him bringing that into what we do at a show. Yeah. And then I bring that understanding of the hobby so combined I can I teach him how to treat people 'cause he already knows how to treat people well. It's how to treat people well in the hobby. Yeah. I can I teach a man and he just teach me in life how to I think it is one thing you see across like the hobby, no matter whether it's Pokemon sports, there's a real lack of I don't mean this to spread for people, like a lack of business knowledge. And I think So many people start up, you see they're really good, they've got everything to do well, but then they start becoming a proper business and everything. And that's where you sort of see ⁓ taking a step back or they disappear and stuff like that. So I think to have someone like that behind you is exactly what you need. I think it's it's spot on me. It's ⁓ it's what we need in the hobby to keep it growing, to keep it turning over, is you need that Not peop not just good people, but people that know how to run a business. So you can it can go hand in hand. Yeah, I agree. I think the thing for me is that it's ⁓ we we get together because of cardboard. Yeah. But actually we find that we get together now more because of the community and talking about sports and and then talking about cardboard as well. And I think that's a really important part for You know, if I was to what I've learned is th the the cards are one thing and the deals are one thing, but actually it's the people that make the hobby. Yeah. and that's I think what we always try and do. We that's why we really like the in person shows. Yeah. I I don't think you know it you can't it doesn't nothing can be matched to an i doing an in person deal with someone. Like we find doing online deals almost tricky. Yeah. Because you just don't know what tones coming across, you don't know Can r misread a test message quite easy, can't you? And that's it. Do you do much selling online at all or is it just jail the bite? We're trying to grow our online selling presents, but not a ton. Yeah. We're yeah, a little bit on eBay here or there, a little bit on Facebook here or there, but try and have that excitement for at the show. Yeah. So try and not show as many cards online because when someone comes to a show, they're excited to see what new stock we have, what They might have not seen it last show, they might have missed it. So that the next time they come to a show, they see it. That's a really cool approach, I think. You don't you usually see people so quick to post it online that I think that's a really unique way of of looking at it. 'Cause you want to show that you have good stock, but also show that you Yeah. So you build that suspend you sort of and I suppose with the NFL community being quite small compared to others, you know exactly what's gonna excite people. If I meant so you can once you get it in there, you c you know sort of your audience on who you're buying and ⁓ who you sell into as well. So you sort of you know people who love patches or things like that. So you can pull them in quite easy with that. Yeah. We definitely hold cards back for shows. Yeah. There's there's times where we, you know, we ⁓ we might tease something online, but we will always hold back ⁓ cards because we may know that there are certain buyers I think and and that's that's the thing that I would say. We do online is to people that we know and we know we might have picked up a card with, ⁓ we picked this card up, but there's probably two or three people that we know they might want that card. And there's been times where we we've bought a card and we hope that somebody turns up to the show and then we can we can sort of sell that card to them. Yep. And sometimes it might be a matter of hours. Yeah. Or we've bought that card, we think, ⁓ actually if if so and so turns up there then I want that. Yeah, one of one Heinz ward card if we turn off. ⁓ is is there anything in particular when you're buying a card, is any card you keep away from, is there anything that sort of you look to buy especially? That's probably a question for me, isn't it? So there's there's three key factors for me when I look at buying a card. There's the player. Yep. There's the set. And then is it numbered? Is it patched? Is it auto? Is it in that order? Is that your side? I would say so. Play is the first thing you have to look at. So like let's say let's say a JJ McCarthy comes to our proof. It's probably gonna be instant instant pass. No offense to JJ McCarthy. Yeah, I'm all with a calamite trend, so calamallery all the way this year. But it's an instant pass. But let's say it's a Jackson Dart comes to the table. You look, it's Jackson Dart, tick. Let's say it's from Select, tick. But then maybe it's a base from select cross. But then maybe it's a numbered card. And then tick. Yeah. So it's just and it's just I think I've got to the point of the amount of cards that have come from came through my hands that sometimes just from I can f I can just flick through ⁓ so quickly and I just I can just tell when a card's gonna be good or bad. And that's just from learning And what what's even scarier sorry for interrupting. What's even scarier is when you're watching someone open a pack online And you just see a small bit of the helmet and you instantly know who what car that's gonna be or like what player it is. Yeah. Isn't it just from the position. Experience learning, just going through it. Just with time. Yeah. Do you and you have to get ticks in all three areas for it to be worthwhile? I would say it depends on the deal. Let's say They have a a downtown of maybe Trey Lance, but then they also have a Josh Allen auto. Yeah. Of a bad set. Yeah. I'd probably buy both those cards because I know downtowns are so liquid, but Trey Lance isn't as good. And I'm not gonna say a bad set, but a Josh Allen from a bad set auto is still He doesn't sign that much. It's still a rare collectible item. Yeah. On that, worst purchase. You've got one card there that haunts you. It's still haunting me, that's the problem. Because I still own it. Yeah. I think I passed on bringing it today. It's a it's a ti it's very recent as well. It was two MKs ago. Yeah. I traded into a Tyler Shook Lotus Flower on before any sales had come up. And Prism Choice is new and it was a bit iffy. Yeah. And for some reason I dis didn't listen to the veteran's advice and I took a shot on it. I'm not gonna go into the figures. Yeah. But it's half of what I paid for it now. And I've still got it. I I think that's a re ⁓ for me it's a that's a really interesting one as well in terms of the types of cards. but openly I am way more conservative than he's. Yeah. He is always the one who's wanting to buy cards, get a deal done. ⁓ on certainly on the bringing stuff in, I'm always the one who will be just maybe, you know, being a little bit portius. Yeah. ⁓ and there's pros and cons to that. ⁓ if you look at the Barry Sanders dual auto we just bought. Yeah. On the s flip side, he's just done a great deal on the cards as well. So I I think it i it really is it depends. But I I think I think one thing I w I I I think is worthwhile saying is I'm probably a little bit too conservative. Yeah. And I think there's times where we could probably yeah, push the boat out a little bit more as well. but I think on the ⁓ on the whole we do you know, we we I I think important point. I think we both do this as well, is it we've talked about those different criteria that he's he's talked about. From my perspective, I always buy a card that I like the look of. Yeah. As well. So it's not just, you know, yes, the players that are important as well. But if we got a you know I picked up a John Gruden card. Yeah, John Gruden. John Gruden card ⁓ which was autographed on like a mini helmet. It's like a forty pound card. It looks a million dollars. Yeah. They've printed loads of them, but it looks a million dollars. For me, that's that's what the hobby's about. Those types of cards ⁓ stand out. ⁓ we ⁓ we may never sell that card. We may never. I remember buying it and I remember when we bought that card at MK and about five people asked about it and we're interested. And it's just a conversation starter. Yeah. Those are unique cards to start conversations. Yeah. Whether it's a patch, whether it's an auto. I think as you go through the hobbies well and you refine your collection and you see as you grow and the bigger cards pass through your hands. I think it almost normalizes it a little bit. So I think then the different things like that then stand out a lot more. So when you see something different that catches your eye and it's not the run of the mill I I think it that just goes through the whole the hobby the whole way through really. I agree. We had we had a couple of guys at Yorkshire actually. They walked up to our table and however we just star started talking NFL with them. and they said, ⁓ we're interested in sort of unusual cards. Yeah. And they were there for an hour and a half. And we picked out stuff from our from our box, which wasn't out because not so many people might like that. So we put ca no no like no there and I think they bought five, six cards of us in in in the end at a reasonable, you know, value. But I think that was the That's what always works for us is that it's not just the big ticket cards, it's the cards that other people can relate to as well. Enjoy. Enjoy it. Yeah. I think especially when you're in you you look like you're a massive NFL fan. When you're in that lane of that, there's nothing better than talking what you love with people for and I think if that comes across, especially when it shows 'cause you can go out with your mates and none of them will like cardboard. None of them will like NFL. It's what you're doing on Sunday, I'm gonna go to a card show and they're like, yeah. So I think it's cool to have that that rel that you say when you're at shows you've got that relationship and and that side of it. So looking forward, I think it's is it the biggest show you've ever done? Absolutely. ⁓ can't we we are it's a bit scary, yeah. Yeah. We're really looking forward to getting to the national. Yeah. I don't think i it doesn't get any bigger, especially as a an American sports vendor. I don't definitely doesn't. How would you prepare for it? Have you changed anything? We've we've we've definitely changed but I think we've tried to stick to our our same mindset. But just tweaked things. Yeah. Th I mean, it's it's America. We we had a week over there last year where we went to Fanatics Fest and Shantilly. ⁓ and that opened our mind up a little bit. ⁓ opened our eyes up in terms of the type of things that the US market likes. Yeah. I think we were pretty successful when we went out there and picked up some really nice stuff to bring back to the UK as well, which is always for us an an important thing that actually we're going over there and hopefully it'll be a positive week for us ⁓ in terms of buying, selling and trading. But we always want to bring stuff back to the UK and have cards in the UK, which is really important. Yeah. ⁓ especially unusual things. Yeah. Where you just don't see. Which you don't see. But I think what we've realized is the UK the UK and we'll always do this move moving forward full stop. We will always have Something for everybody at our table. Yeah, and we we said that we'll have everything from one pound bargain flip throughs all the way up to whatever the UK hobby gets to in the end. You know, ⁓ at the moment we sort of sit at about two and a half, three thousand pounds worth of you know top top end. There's very few buyers in the UK who'll pick up that type of top end NFL card. Yeah. But what we have done for National is definitely prioritise, you know. More than a hundred pounds, more or a couple of hundred pound cards. The sweet spot for us in the UK is anything from twenty pounds to a couple of hundred quid. Yeah. People will come to our table and buy those cards quite happily. ⁓ anything more than that is always a bit of a you know, ⁓ multi-ish market. But definitely been looking at higher end stuff. Kiss it's things like that. Yeah. Slight liquid gold in America. Yeah. Have you bought anything new? You've got your only thing. I might not tear that one and put it back in your pocket. I think it might be time to pick pick take some cards out from there. Go for it. So these are three cards, ⁓ of the same player from the same set in from two thousand and four. And they're all rookie cards. These are three Eli Manning rookie gold pristine rookies. But they're all they're all gold, but they're all they're all three of them are different num numbered to different serial numbers. You showing his cruise. He's might have seen them. And you don't want to know how rare that ten is. Right. It's only sold once ever. Once ever. And it was in twenty seventeen, I think. And as you can see they're all die cut cards. So I know the grades aren't fantastic. Yeah. But a six back then is like an eight now. It is a clean six, isn't it? It's a very Yeah, yeah. You have a look at the eight, which is the t ten. It's just immaculate. Was that the one sale or is that a different version of Different version. And his Ilo Man's market in gen was just so undervalued. Yeah. He beat the GOAT twice in the Super Bowl. You could say his defence was amazing and he had great weapons on offense, but at the end of the day he won the game. Yeah. There's plenty of quarterbacks that have had good players and not not got there, aren't they? So you bought them especially to send for the national or the I personally I think we'll bring them. Yeah. But they're more f I know people are debate should you bring cards to show. Yeah. But personally these are cards I br more bring to show. Yeah. And if a col if a Elon Man collector comes, maybe sell them. Yeah. I I think that's a really important point. We genuinely we genu genuinely want to get the right cards into the right hands. That is another thing that ACLA as something absolutely close to our heart. Because you can see when you get you bring somebody a card which they've really wanted or it is a rail card to them, you can just see what it means to people. Yeah. And for us that that's a that's a massive thing. So if somebody turns up and goes, I've been looking for those for ten years or whatever it is, we probably would sell. Yeah. but If it's somebody casually coming up and trying to, you know, want super eight, you've probably got the send it ask com, you'll say, No thanks, you'll go with a cleaner. Yeah. It's cool talking about and I suppose over there as well it's gonna get recognised for what it is. Yeah. So that they're gonna be people with the knowledge and and know exactly what it is. You probably still love it the same thing. Are you looking to pick anything up? You got anything in mind. I remember t I was we I was talking to dad I would say maybe a couple three weeks ago about it's gonna be difficult to buy cards over there. Yeah. Because there's so many people in America who buy cards. Yeah. So I think we're gonna have a different approach to how I think Americans would. Yeah. I think we're gonna be looking to trade more than buy. Yeah. So it's just having the cards to to be able to trade. four those You're almost looking to trade down to to stock you could use. Yeah a mix I would say. Yeah depending on the card I think ⁓ we we like unusual stuff to bring back to the UK as well. Yeah. I mean I I've I I've been watching American football since late seventies so that tells you a little bit of how old I am but for me in the nineties The nineties running backs are just on a completely different level for me personally, almost more so than more so than you know, ⁓ a lot of the the the QBs. Yeah. So Bo Jackson, Tony Dorset, ⁓ Barry Sanders, Emmett Smith, those guys, if we could find unusual cards that you definitely won't find in the UK, I'd probably be snapping them up. I've got a kiss for them, so our cards about there, but I didn't ex him. Yeah, absolutely. That's the sort of stuff that I think that we'd we'd want. But just all also buying stuff to bring back to the UK, which people want. Yeah. ⁓ and we have lots of conversations with ⁓ Craig at D ⁓ yeah, Diamondbacks Craig around that I appeal type of card. Going back to that thing, doesn't have to be a three thousand pound card. It could be a thirty pound card, but if it's got I appeal Yeah. People people like it. So I say it I think a lot of it is is the look of the card. Yeah. And like you said, we said before about the the different ones, the ones that stand out, they're always the ones that I think I prefer. Yeah. But talking about Craig and things like that, we had him the other week talking about repacks. How is if you don't mind asking, how does that work in your business? 'Cause we get repackers coming to the shop and love ⁓ or hate ⁓ There are a good way to get through inventory to get cash flow through and things like that. Do you find it's an important part or is it just a matter of ⁓ it's just another deal? ⁓ I think it's I think part of the hobby. It's it is part of the hobby, and I think there's a place for all of those different mechanisms, ⁓ as long as it's done right, yeah, you know, and it ⁓ and you know, people are fundamentally doing the right thing with pre patch. Which I know that Cra Cray does. I think it's part of the hobby. And that there's you know, it it's it's also people who are sell selling one pound, two pound singles or whatnot. That to me's part of the hobby. Yeah. ⁓ and yeah. A moment as a as a buyer and a seller, are you are you buying for repackers as well as if you know you can pick a downtown up and sell it pretty quick to repack it. Is that part of your business as well or is that just a a separate base if you know I mean? I would say No. Yeah? It's not our f it's at least it's not our first thoughts. Maybe second or third. But our first thought is Will we will we be stuck with this card for the next three months? And will we be able to get it to a collector? Yeah. So no, it's it's a cool that again it goes on your approach of that's where if you have the stock there and someone comes up and offers you a good price, you're not gonna tear it down for Yeah. I ⁓ and openly, you know, we we do sell to repackers. Yeah. ⁓ and there's times when we will buy. There will be times when we will buy because we know that there will be the need. Yeah. do we apart from that, do we intentionally always going out buying high volume four four four repackers? I say probably not. Nothing. ⁓ but fundamentally we always like picking up good cards and getting them into the hands of ⁓ whoever wants them fundamentally. Yeah. No, it's it's just it's an interesting approach. Everyone I think has a different approach. You see people at shows really buying for epackers. Yeah, some people I I'm never so into a repacker. It's always interesting to see where that sort of long lies 'cause like I say, Craig comes in here and he'll look through, he'll buy cards for his repacked in here and same with Pokemon and things like that. So it's just a but it's hot topic in the minute as well, isn't it? It i it is I think if it's done properly, I think it's like anything, ⁓ for me, if it's done properly then it's bow it it It could be a very handy part to to bow along. ⁓ one thing I've got to ask. Why do you feel the national is sort of special? Why is that a because it's obviously special to go and visit, it must be even more special to to Venda. openly we don't know what we're gonna we've never been. This is the first time we're actually going, so we've only been told. Yeah, we've only been told, seeing what's online, but just it just seems like our type of place. Mm-hmm. It's not only doing the deals at tables, it's everything that goes on around it. Yeah. In the evenings, you know, doing trade deals through till midnight, one of the in hotel lobbies, chatting. conversations that feels to me like it's such a massive part of why the national is special. Yeah. ⁓ and and and openly I think in in the UK there are shows where that is also a really important part. no or we we we we stay in the same hotel that we're in down down in down in London all in the same hotel. And ⁓ that that First time we've ended down at London, I remember Charlie saying on the Saturday night that's one of the best nights he's ever had. It wasn't at the show, it was actually afterwards because the community's together, we're having a beer, we're as still trading cards, talking crap. but I think that's I think that's what we were almost expecting to see at the national, but on just a much bigger scale. Yeah. From what I remember. It's almost as if Charlie's gonna be in his element. He's one of well, I mean one of a few other years. There's so many people running around in the same thing. And I think it's gonna be awesome to see him in an environment where he's quite tough over here to buy and sell in a fellow. Especially sort of with it being not quite a it's a popular sport but there's very few collectors. So to put him in an environment where there is the collectors, there's the cards and just four or five days of it is gonna be insane, isn't it? I'm actually s I'm he sometimes struggles on like two to three day shows at London. No, like respectfully, respectfully. I think I'm scared about how your energy levels are gonna be. ⁓ it's it's it's a really good point that Char Charlie makes. I I think I I think what he doesn't realise is I've normally done a Friday, Saturday, Sunday at London, yeah, after doing a whole week. Well for what. ⁓ I think National hopefully will be a bit better because we're going out for the whole week and it'll be a bit more chilled. So hopefully I'll be a bit rested. But it's nice that my son's looking after me. Yeah. And thinking about me. I'm sure we can get you a mobility skewer to go now. Yeah, we can. I'm sure we can, yeah. No, it is it's a long one as well, isn't it? But we found like you it's literally from one thing to another to another. It's but you don't want to miss it. Like it's a year till you get it again. Yeah, exactly that. Exactly that. So coming back to the UK hobby. How long you in it for? Do you remember in the first showbook? First show. So my first show going to was the Sports Card Social. I think. Yeah, I think March twenty twenty three. Sports Card Social. Not vending, but going to a show. How do you find the hobby has changed since then? It's changed a lot. Yeah. It's I would say the NFL market's scarcted. Yeah. There was zero vendors there look with NFL. Maybe one, but with a little bit there. To now where if you go to the Sports Guide Social there's at least ten, maybe twelve, and all a very good stock. Yeah. All friendly. Yeah. Yeah that's cool to see, you know. It can be quite competitive, so it's nice to see again the hobby of working together with a lot of it. Do you think there's any reason for that? Or is that just growth of the hobby in general? I think the growth of the NFL. And the hobby combined. Yeah. And you're just see and with you were seeing it at the shows. Do you keep much of an eye on the rest of the hobby or is it purely just an FL? I I it's well, I try and keep somewhat of a tab almost. And it's crazy what's happening with Pokemon right now. Yeah. And fair play to them. Yeah. It's it's insane, isn't it? It is, but ⁓ I think I think everything goes hand in hand. And I think s sports cards side of the hobby has actually I think benefited well from a lot of the interests around Pokemon and DCG. ⁓ and I think just getting people who there's genuinely people now who collect both sides, let's say. And I think that's a that's an important element and and and you know the they'll be collecting certain Pokemon or Star Wars or Marvel or Disney and then they'll have a football team that they're collecting and they'll have an NFL team that they're collecting. And I think that's quite a nice way of giving it working, but it's just I want it to remember e even in the last three years and w w we still feel as though we weren't we're quite New to the hobby, yeah. ⁓ and we're not that experienced but it's so nice to see that massive growth over the last three years. ⁓ you look at Ludman XL, I mean it that was Bobbuckers. Yeah. And you know, fair play to Harry and the team for putting that on because it was crazy. The Friday night the Friday there w it just blew us away. Yeah. Getting all the Americans over. And also not only Americans but getting ⁓ people from Europe, people from the Far East. Australia. Yeah. Just people coming up and really liking what they saw at spending money and Frankie you know, we we did more on the Friday at DXL than we did the previous sand down to the whole weekend. Mental. And I think it is that it's that level of buyer that's that's coming in and We had Harry on which I think will be like two weeks before yours. And I think from what you were saying that was the aim to get the not only the the people in the room to fill the venue, but get the good buyers in to make it worthwhile. And I think that's what really shocked us is like we had I think it was NFL Tops Chrome weekend that really s and we put the things out thinking there's there's like jumbos and things like we're never gonna sell them. At the end of the day one everything was gone. It was just like You see that sort of money coming into a room, you you know it's gonna be a good show. And that I think that trickles down then as well. We'll go spend elsewhere and buy more stocking and things like that. And I'm sure you're the same. If you're having a good weekend, you'll go back out and you'll see what there is to replenish, restock. That sort of thing. Yeah. I mean we we we've never been at a show where we were struggling to fill apart from the first ever sports cards say fill. ⁓ but we didn't have that many cards. It's just funny looking at that photo. Still funny looking at that photo. ⁓ we'll dig it out. I think it's on our Instagram feed that it's like one one small ⁓ case, all the cards spaced out. There's a lot of space. A ton of cards immortal, maybe a few flip trees. We'd never had we we'd never had a show where we're like we've run out of cards. Yeah. We were replenishing them as you know, from our cases and we pretty much couldn't fill the cases, which we'd never had bad strategy. We always try and kick a lot of stuff there. and it was it was bonkers, wasn't it? In a nice way. ⁓ yeah, yeah, it's insane. It it was to see all the build up and everything, the uncertainty everyone was talking about something different. To see her come in and and be that sort of that level is great to see. And it's it's gonna be interesting to see where it goes from there as well. Yeah. It was so nice. Is there anything that you see currently underrated, overrated in the hobby? In especially in your either. felt that no players or just gen generally anything sets players general sets of that's getting personal. Well I think that's a I mean we could go down a whole top spanini thing ⁓ the go back could we could we could bad that two hours right ⁓ what do you think of cosmic I was completely off Cosmic last year this year cannot get enough I think it's a lovely product I would say the price is steep but there's I would say the There's a lot of cards which are gonna go for a lot of money in the future. Yeah. That is. So I would say my ⁓ what what the most overrated you say was that the question? Let's go set. Set. Most over I did just buy quite a bit of this set, ⁓ signature class. Yeah. I I just think it's very overly printed. Yeah. I think some cards look very nice, but I think there's so many different SSPs. Yeah. And it's a It just feels a bit like a score almost of the new tops. Lots of autos in the product. Especially when you follow with something like Chrome Black. And you're coming up with them the those are sort of beautiful. Lovely cards. Yeah. What about players? ⁓ sorry cards. ⁓ sorry? Have you got a set of sovereignted? ⁓ do you rip do you actually root much? I never I don't think I've ever seen you open a box. If if it's a very good weekend, we'll open a blast box. It's more than that. Maybe ⁓ maybe a mega maybe a mega that's maybe a mega if we feel that's a bit of a treat for us. Normally at a show, if we've had a good week, bevies, or we're at somewhere like London where there's there's a few of us around the table, that we'd have bought bought a box for a couple of boxes, or put it in for a hobby box, for example. ⁓ a shed shed, shed and then and then just sit having a few beers, well. Yeah. Water or something. ⁓ and and do that. ⁓ I ⁓ openly we've we we when we were in the US we bought quite a bit and open stuff and ⁓ our luck isn't that great. So we we do it as a bit of fun. Yeah. I think that's how you gotta treat opening boxes in it. Yeah. You're always there's always the chasing man, you've got to be responsible with that side. Yeah. Especially when it's your business or the you're running it as a business. Yeah. It's gotta be something but What about players? The only players in the minute where you're completely out on ⁓ Yeah, yeah, well I'll let him off 'cause he's he's already proven that he's bad. ⁓ There there's certain players who like, ⁓ S C J for example, yep. It's like I I'm I'm almost flipping I I don't know which way to turn. He's clearly been putting a bit of work in over the close season, he's looking quite trim and you know, maybe realises probably gotta put a little bit of more effort in. possibly be s maybe somebody to maybe somebody to buy. I I might be causing a a causing a bit of a maybe not a riot, but a bit of controversy of who I say. And it's ⁓ it's no offense to the who he is, he's a lovely guy. I in my opinion, the most overrated player right now is Drake May. Yeah. Personally. And it's not because of the Super Bowl. I just think he was hyped up into that MVP. caliber because he has a very good fan base. Yeah. Who love him a lot. Mm-hmm. So I almost stretched to get there. Yes. But obviously he made it to a super massive achievement. I would say a defence is very, very good. Yeah. To get there. Do you reckon he's ever gonna win a Super Bowl? I can see it. But I think there's a lot of good QBs and a lot of good teams in this league. And he's gonna have to step up. You buying him or are you selling him or you hold a minute a minute. Yeah It's a difficult he's probably the most difficult market right now in the UK, in my opinion. Yeah. Or in general. Yeah, I think I th I'd I'd agree with Charlie. I I think the one thing about it is is the Patriots QB, they've clearly got a great team. Rabel's great coach. They're still on the up. ⁓ If they do win at the Super Bowl, his market's still gonna stay strong because you never know what might happen and people then start comparing Warmer with Brady. So you don't you just don't know, but it's difficult. But I'm as a player, I'm with Charlie. I think that he's I think he's a bit overrated. Personally he reminds me a bit of a Jalen Hurts. And like I know what Jalen I know i because if you look statistically if you look how many yards Drake may add in the Super Bowl, what was it like a hundred and twenty? That's not cutting it. No. I know the SEAL's defence is amazing, amazing. But You've got to beat every team to win a Super Bowl, aren't you? Exactly. Yeah, mine's drop all right. Overrated. Yeah. I think he's always the bridesman, never the bride. That's fair. I think that I think that's my problem. Everyone I get he got to the Super Bowl, but I think he's always gonna be playoffs and up. And I I I think that's when he starts playing well, everyone's on the train, he gets injured, everyone starts falling out of the front, off they go. think it they always put them the Bengals always put themselves in a hole and a very hard hole to get out of. Yeah. As status fans we obviously gonna say yeah. Yeah. Well if you look well it's always they have to fight to get even to get nine and eight, maybe nine ten and they've always got to go on a winning streak at the end of the season players on the normally because of injuries, which is a different story, but it's there's lots of factors. Yeah. I I I think The Bengals would be a better team this year. Personally they got Dexter Lawrence come in. They've signed quite a few Seahawks defensive players, which is a bit ironic. But ⁓ they are I'm I would die on that hill. I everyone in the shop knows it. I'm like no Joe Burrow. No. I don't know what it is, just I just yeah. I think there's also a lot of hype with how gritty he was in college still. Yeah. Because of how good it was. ⁓ yeah, and I think he he shows it in spells. I think that's the worst bit. Like he can throw a ball as well as anyone. But then ten minutes later he's he's down the fire, he's moaning or crying or anyhow, yeah. Josh Dobbs, bringing him back. That was that was my peak of Vikings fandom. Space ⁓ what ⁓ past past the naught? Yeah, I've got the hat, I've got the the t shirt, everything. Can I just stop you Yeah for one moment. We're in the middle of doing a a a a fantasy draft. Yeah. And ⁓ get Josh we're on the clock. So ⁓ Josh Dobser? No, no. We ⁓ wow. Yeah. There's some still some good players there. So I'm we're just gonna pass it to him because if I pick it up I'll get I'll I'll get ⁓ told off. Malik Nabus is still there. I'm not fan. Yeah, I know. Joint team as well. Joint team. Josh Allen's gone. Interesting. Fair play. Is it a good league? Twelve teams and all collectors. ⁓ but I we go wide receiver. And I think it's number forty four on the list. No. I like you talking in code, but they're gonna be seeing it. Yeah, that's the other one. Basic gear is questionable. Go for it. Tetaroak ⁓ McMillan. Yeah. Third round. Sorry about that. No, no, it's sorry. It's serious, but especially with his collectors, isn't it? You can't Yeah. Then they know who they know ⁓ they know who we're up against as well, so they'll probably watch this at some point and realise that we've picked picked a future superstar there. Steve's in the shop is huge on him. He's all in where Panthers run, yeah. ⁓ yeah. I think he's actually bought a card of us. Yeah, you'll be it. ⁓ the Tetaro McMillan patch auto and ⁓ McCaffrey patch from back in Panthers days. This is something which I can't still get my head around, right? Literally every deal we've done remembers. Remembers. I I just can't ⁓ yeah, I've I I've forgotten what I was doing yesterday, you know? But yeah. That's pretty cool though. It I imagine it's it helps you in the business side of it, like it as a relationship. To the extent. It helps when you're checking down which cards you've sold from the on the spreadsheet. He's just sat there looking at his bridge. He went, Are you sure you're not guessing? We're we're trying to I I mean, that's we try and take more photos. And you you've got them on whatever inventory sister DF got. And you just press a button, you sold that, and then that's all done and dusted. Every car's different. Yeah. So, you know, actually have to you know, putting all of that and monitoring it is ⁓ and that's the thing which I think people don't recognize. There's an awful lot of hardware that goes on the background. How do you go th how do you go about organising that then? Is that something that is all on spreadsheet or it's just it's the process from this when you get the card back from a card show? Putting the mag, putting a seal on it, put CLA card sticker on it, and then putting in exactly what the p the player's name is, what card it is, is it numbered, is it rookie, then putting what you paid for it, which value it at, the team, what date it was, if you've sold it already or not. Yeah. And within that then, do you track prices alongside that? Do you you see you see before you do a big show that you go through and monitor all your stock or we'll try to as much as we can. Yeah. Yeah. We we I mean it it's a it's a pretty good inventory system. No, what we pay for the card, what the value is, ⁓ when we bought it, yeah, ⁓ obviously when we sell it, you put a sold date so we've got full traceability. It allows us to understand which players sell, which players don't sell. ⁓ how quickly things turn over. Yeah, ⁓ but that takes time. That's and there's there's quite a bit of effort to get that to work. But for me, that's the I'd say that's where your experience comes in and your knowledge and and that side of it. And I I think it is important to you see that you always remember the big wins. But when we're at a card show, I can never remember what we bought things for. Like if we know Chris is the one that deals that side, but if I'm if he's off for a break and I'm so damn I get So if you ever see when we're on, we'll take advantage. We we need to go up cut and buy cars with her and then maybe. But yeah, no, it's it's always interesting. Everyone has their own little different way. And I think it's it's cool to see. And I think it's something that a lot of people don't talk about either, is that sort of the background and they say you don't see what goes into it, you go on, you see political in three weeks' time and they're back up and running. A and and one thing which we do, which people maybe listening to this will think, really? Literally we get cards in, we will A check condition but if the mag is scratched up that we put it in the new mag. Has to be. Has to be nice and clean. If it's in a utilitarian and it's of a certain value, we'll put it into a mag. Yeah. You know, we'll bag it. with team bags always bought from third down. ⁓ put a C L A sticker on it. That whole process takes time. Yeah, we think that's part of what we need to do for the community and the hobbying. ⁓ because we always want to present the cards in the best possible way. Yeah. That's where it helps with conditions that you don't want to be getting home and having a look at is a scrap on the mug and and outside of it. Yeah. If you've got one tip that you would give to a new collector or even an experienced one that you you see you'd make the mistake time and time again. ⁓ Maybe we do one one H on that. Yeah. ⁓ It's always about the relationship. It's never about the transaction. it's a hobby. People will come back to you or they won't come back to you. Yeah. And I think how you treat people, how you engage with them, how you communicate with them, ⁓ is so important. Always we and one thing I've always tried to say to Shay is always do the right thing. Yep. ⁓ and I think that that for me is if there's people out there who are thinking about getting into the RB, that to me is more important than making money. Yeah. I would say for me is probably buy what you like. Yeah. What you enjoy, what you have fun with. Mm-hmm. Cause if you're not having fun at the end of the day, what's the point? Yeah. It's a hobby. Mm-hmm. It's not meant to make you unhappy. It's meant to for you enjoy something to do, get you out of the house. Yeah. That's what I'd say. Yeah. Meeting like minded people again, that sort of is that's what if you The way it becomes it almost consumes you then the lifestyle. I think if you you're buying things you enjoy rather than chasing the hype, it's it's gonna make it that much easier to do so. So go on to you, Charlie. What's it like running it at at such a young age? You always see kids running on that with the parents, but I think you're one of the first teenagers that I've seen come into it and grow into it, if that makes sense. How does he feel to be that? The f well for the first and how does it feel to be the that sort of vendor that sort of personal It's a roller coaster. Yeah. It's making sure your cards are ready for the show to handing in assignments for school on a Sunday night before Monday. And it's just ebbs and flows of going to school, doing the same thing every day. Yep coming back home. Sitting down working on working on cards or going to a card show. Yeah. And it's exciting. It's something new every time. Yeah. So just the contrast. Yeah. I imagine there's sort of card show blues and then there's what you have on a Monday that back in school. It's an exciting it's an exciting time going to a card show. Yeah. I hope so. I think your dad might have put this question as well. What's the biggest thing you've learned from your dad? Or If you care so much to do it and enjoy it so much, just do it. It doesn't matter. Just do it. Whatever the whatever the cost. If you enjoy it that much, just do it. Save for you the other way. Yeah, date turned by Tyler Shulk. That was gonna be my my one to new collector. What have I learnt? I I mean I I think I think for me I I've seen a whole different person. and I I've I've really seen somebody grow up quite a lot as part of all of this whole process. But I think what that for me, what I've learnt from here is He's clearly loving doing something and incredibly passionate about it. And what that what that does is just it sort of rubs off on on me. It makes me want to do more for him as well. I I I I guess maybe just technically I've I've just l learned so much more about the hobby and what he looks for in cards and that's sort of hopefully rubbing off on me. He still briticises me all the time when I buy the wrong thing in his eyes. But I think that that's yeah, we s we sit down and watch YouTube videos together. Yeah, you know, of of Cogcut to Two or King of Cards or Third Down, and just talk about the hobby. And I think that that's the the thing that we probably like more than anything else. Yeah. I don't know, like I think I'm male like seven now. And I think when you're a teenager, I don't think you appreciate sort of what your parents do and how not how they sort of how much sacrifice and things there is like that into it. And I think from an outside point of view, like I before, I think he's the dream. So to see especially two people that are so nice and doing it in the right way, it's a really cool thing to see. And I think, yeah, espe I can see exact if I went through that experience with my son, I think I'd just absolutely love every minute of it. So it's it's really cool. And I think that's why one one reason why I take it you on is because that is it's one thing that makes you complete the difference to the rest of a bit. You see people coming, they're always with the friends and things like that. So to see Father Sun and do it and escalate like that is it's really cool. So yeah, congratulations, it is I appre appreciate that. We we really enjoy doing it. I think that's ⁓ that's a key thing is ⁓ whilst there's sometimes some arguments which there always will there are there always is It it generally is something we genuinely enjoy doing together. Yeah. We also enjoyed doing with you, Ben. It's cool. I did see you trying to rub a charge me on a Jefferson once. We won't talk about our joke at that I spent all London like in my head I was debating. I was like I think we even give you a price. I think we even give you a price yet. And you were just still debating it 'cause you knew where it was gonna be around. Yeah, and I was like ⁓ and when you said you sold it, I like at least I don't have to make that decision. But yeah. I'm sure there'll be another nice Jeff scene to to to come eventually. We'll probably go all the way to Chicago to do a deal with you up almost certainly we'll definitely do a deal in in in National. Look do you have a dream for sale? Do you I know actually we thought about a long term. Do you have a dream for it? Would is there an ideal you want? You asked me a similar question earlier, so let's him answer. Yeah. Th this this all started f ⁓ as honestly a hobby that Charlie s you know to get this one got into and then we enjoyed going to shows and then he we started buying and selling getting trading cards. where it gets to I d I I I I really don't know. I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking about retiring. I thought you were gonna say a breaking off and start up on your own then. There's been talks about there's been talks about before. I don't think I don't think I'd be that great. That's it. ⁓ I'd love to get into a situation where I'd almost semi retire or retire, but we're actually on then supporting him more. Yeah. so wherever it actually takes Charlie. I I'd be couple with that, whether or not it's the same size as it is today and we still go to card shows and enjoying things in the same way or it grows to something more. let's just see how that how that pays out. I think he's got a wonderful opportunity, you know, he's he's he's seventeen going on eighteen. ⁓ I don't think he's gonna go to university ⁓ he may do, I don't think that'll be the case, but he's got a wonderful opportunity to just enjoy the hobby and see where it where it goes. I I I don't know. I think same as that one there. So what you do to feel back and be in their shoes. Yeah. I think you can find the bird travel the world, buy those cards and just yeah. I I think there's I think no, ⁓ this is a as a parent just speaking just generally, I think there's so much pressure on kids to, you know, do your GCSEs and do A levels and then potentially go to university and then, you know and I think I think w s we sort of forget that they're still young people. Yeah. And they should just enjoy themselves to a certain extent. And wherever life takes them, as long as they're doing the right thing. Yeah. Yeah. I is is is fine. Yeah. And I don't think we should look I I I'm certainly not looking too far in the f future f for him, whatever happens, whatever happens. Yeah. I think I'm thirty six and I'm still not sure what I'll do an older score. Yeah, but you don't you don't start living until you get that freedom new and then you start finding what you enjoy or what you don't and Yeah, it's cool. Quick fire. I'm all right at him as well. Favourite third damn member. I'll joke into that one too. What I'm saying is pressure of two people in the room. Yeah. Go for it, you make your fire. So favourite card you've ever owned? We this was another conversation we just recently had as well. Barry Sand well, we would think probably one of, if not the favourite, is probably the Barry Sanders Jameer Gibbs dual auto. 'Cause it's almost like his favourite player with one of my favourite players. Yeah. We we've we've got a card at home. We didn't bring it actually. maybe we should have done. Which but this goes back to what we were saying earlier on. ⁓ It's gonna be like the new Darmel. We we bought that card. I bought it. Sorry? I bought it. No, not not ⁓ I'm talking about the Woodson. ⁓ no. So we we we bought that card ⁓ for a dollar. From Burbank just right at pretty much start months after Charlie got into ⁓ cards. It's ⁓ old yeah, old school bass rod Woodson. If a scorecard. Rookie. Yeah, rookie. It just looks so cool. Yeah. We'll never sell that card. I just think it's such a cool looking card. And that goes back to the fact that it doesn't matter how expensive the card is. It's just got a connection, a memory. We were both at Burbank picked that card up. Yeah, and I think we'll we'll probably we'll probably ⁓ frame it or something about that in the future. Probably. Yeah. No, it's got we've got the wall the same thing. Look down there. It's all the cards from shows are when we've gone and done something, we've pulled something. We stayed that on the wall and I think it's the burst of being a clertrinard and that's the memories are some of it. The nostalgia, that sort of thing. The card you must regret, sell it. Selling. ⁓ hey. I think we're thinking about the same card, aren't we, Dad? You both had the same reaction, same boom. Yeah. ⁓ it's a it's a it's a Tom Brady kaboom. Yeah. ⁓ it's I think it's twenty twenty one, not the the horrorson tour one. So it's like him and like you know how he like throws his arms before game in front of the fans, like and I I I don't think I understood Iang it was a a bit of ignorance for me. Yeah. I just didn't understand that how high his market had gone from the last sales and I sold it quite a bit cheap. And I think I'm not gonna say numbers what I sold it for, but I think the card's about five or six K pounds right now. Wish you could get that one back. Which I wish I could get back. There's always one. Always one. Biggest bargain you've ever found. Now we have to think hard for this one. I I think it's that German Montana, Black Pandora, PSA ten, downtown. I think it was not only there was not only the bargain at the time, but it was also one of those situations of what we traded for it. Yeah. A lot smaller cards, which we got a really good deal on as well. And I think that's for me I I I I think if we hadn't done that done that s I don't think CLA cards would be where it is today as well. So I think that's another thing as well. It it just elevated us and then allowed us to buy we actually traded it cash and trade for four or five nice cards as well, which we have so then brought people to the table. It's one of those all by snowball yeah things. And also I still remember seeing the guy we 'cause he was an American who we did the deal for the Black Pandora, Joe Montana. And I remember seeing the him at was it Chantilly Fanat Fanat Fanat Fanatics first and just saying thank you to him. Yeah. Because I was just 'cause I know 'cause he was from San Francisco. Yeah. So he probably could have got over comp if he really, really wanted to. So it was just out of the kindness of heart, 'cause that was the one I saw I I really liked that card and I just and he was generous enough to make the deal. That was cool. Next though. PSARBGS. Do you grade much? No. You just buy in. So we're probably gonna grade our first card ever at the national. Yeah. What card's that? Dave card. The one dollar. No, it's not. It's not. We we've first of all, we're hoping it's real. ⁓ we picked up a Tom Brady rookie auto in the UK or off UK eBay. It's been eBay authenticated, but You never know. It does. We've done as many checks as we possibly can on it. ⁓ I think we'll probably grade that card and we'll probably go to Beckett for that. Yep. ⁓ but personally looks PSA for me. But I would say long term, Beckett. You reckon? It's an interesting tip. Everyone seems to be just doubling down on PSA at the minute. Even with everything going on, it's it seems to be so I think the fact you can see what Beckett have graded it. Yeah. As the sort of so like with PSA if they're greater than eight. Where is where is it you don't know w if it actually is an eight or not 'cause it it var it varies depending on the grader. Yeah. I I think that's something that does need to get sorted out personally, just from just from the outside in that lack of transparency doing it for PSA is something that they need to improve on. Yeah. to the scale of it and what the outcome of it is. And a lot of people are banking on not banking, but they're they're buying cards that they think are certain things and for it to come back and there's no reasoning. Yeah. It could just do without Yeah, this is why. And then you know for next time with the ability. Otherwise you're gonna make the same mistake again and again. We've touched on this a few times. ⁓ Yeah. What's next for CL? Where'd you go from the national? In a smaller window. more international more international shows. Yeah. Anywhere tissue. Germany's definitely we've already booked in for the next Card Madness, which is gonna be very good. We've heard lots of good reviews about it. I think Dallas card show is definitely one on the list. But I think more European ones like maybe a French show or there's definitely place to explore. Yeah. And the hobby's so big and I this year the most out of any years of the hobby. I've seen it grow in throughout. Yeah, I think I think so as right. We we're we're definitely twenty twenty seven, ⁓ even back in the twenty twenty six, we're gonna do more international shows. partly because I think we've got more confidence without doing that. but also the travelling The two of us we just really enjoy it. Yeah. ⁓ I think the other thing f which would definitely be coming in twenty twenty seven is I think we're probably gonna be just getting ourselves a little bit more professional. from a an online presence point of view. ⁓ maybe even looking at a a a a bit of a a a a s small rebrand as well, nothing major. But ⁓ just to just level up openly our logo I made on on PowerPoint, you believe, you know, for a after for for thirty minutes ⁓ t two years ago. And I just think ⁓ it's great and everybody loves seeing it and you know, I I I I know when I when I speak to the third down people, they're sending just go over if you you want to sell a NFL, go over to the yellow big the the yellow banner, which is great, but I think we can is enough. so I think that's the that's the then the thing. Anything else, John And I think using the national as a launch pad To start all the all these new ideas we have. Yeah. And I think we're very, very thankful to have the opportunity to go to the National and have a table. So thank you to Luke and the team for working hard. Yeah, I I mean I openly we wouldn't be going to the National if it wasn't for Luke at Hobby Box. we had real great conversation with him last year and he said, Just come along. We've got a we've got a you know, we'll get we'll we'll get a showcase for you. ⁓ help us out and I think that's been you know, that would be really great. So very hopeful. Yeah. We had Plus on a few days ago and he was he's been in as well. Completely opposite approach. And then he's sort of chilled out his I d I don't think he still knows what he's doing, but he's he he's his fourth or fifth national so he's got a bit more respect so it should it'd be interesting to see how everyone different approach going different way. One last thing, and this is purely for me. I'm I'm banging on the content drum. And I know I'll keep an asking when the when is content coming? When the videos are you tuning? That that's that's probably the biggest that's for me part of the the levelling up. Yeah. openly, I think Charlie said it, you know, it he's still got college. Yep. You know, he's still, you know, trying to get assignments in and and do stuff there. I work full time. I'm starting continuing to learn to drive. Yeah, there's there's so much stuff that's going on in our lives. We don't do it we don't do this full time, however much we probably would love to. I think next y next year I think there will must we'll start to get a bit more time to do stuff and I think that's the thing that I think we need to getting content and yeah, spending the time to do it on top of the all of the ⁓ the car the pure card stuff. I think that's the reason why we're we're probably not do it do it as much. We' we're we're all you know, the other thing is we do it because we we love doing it and it's it's organic for us. Yeah. Yeah. And we're not gonna push anything. personally we try not to use AI when we're putting anything out. I know they're only sort of simple posts to a certain extent, but but that's just for us. We just want to make sure that This is real, this is us doing it. Yeah. so it will always take a little bit longer and we just want to do things right. Whatever ho hopefully people have recognised that whatever we do, we try and do it properly, get it in the hobby and I think that's the other thing as well. If we do it, we wanna do it properly. Yeah. When you do do it, I'll be the first one watching. Well, I appreciate this. ⁓ no, it is it's cool like I say I've said it a lot, but it's cool to see people doing it the right way, the proper way. And Thank you for coming up and to do it in person as well. No, much driving on just for it. It was really appreciated. No, no, much appreciated. It's great. Yeah. Thank you for jumping on and we'll have to catch you on the Sunday. If if you survive through to the Sunday, we'll probably come over and get you. You'll probably see my my soul leave my body. He's gonna come down and there's gonna be your top going out. Everything's going wild. Deal be under the table. Sleeping, having a little. Just you're going wild. But yeah, no, ⁓ thank you very much. No, I appreciate it. Absolute honour. Thanks. Catch it's done.