Sophia Whitesell: What if there were a place so safe that the worst of me could be known? And I wouldn't be loved less but more in the telling of? Welcome to the Giving Game, the only show where professional athletes are banned from talking about their sport. That's right. No stats, no game recaps, no media trained answers. I'm your host, Sophie Weitzel, and every episode we find out who these athletes actually are when the cameras stop rolling and the jerseys come off. We're talking untold stories, questionable life decisions, dating disasters, money, family, fame, philanthropy, and all the stuff their PR teams would probably prefer stayed off the internet. But here's the twist. Every episode is tied to a charity or cause chosen by the athlete. So while we're exposing personalities, we're also raising real money and driving measurable impact for the organizations that mattered. There are only three rules on this show. No sports talk, no filters, raise as much money as possible. So if you've ever wondered what athletes are really like off the field, welcome to the giving game. Let the game begin. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the giving game. ⁓ today I have Mr. Dave Dravecchi. and I was just explaining to him the rules of the show. You know, I told Dave like this may be the only sports podcast that you've ever been on that people don't know about your baseball career. So I am so excited to talk to Dave a little bit more about his foundation, what he's working on. ⁓ I will share the three rules of our podcast, and it is no sports talk. Please know PR answers. Keep it real with people. And three, we're gonna raise as much money as possible for Dave's charity. So if that sounds good, we're gonna we're are you ready to go, Dave? Yes, I sure am. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. so tell me a little bit about what you're doing now and a little bit about your foundation. Yes. So years ago when I battled with cancer, it was it was really interesting because my story was so public. Literally thousands of people responded to us. And as a result, my wife and I felt compelled to respond to them because they were so gracious in reaching out to us. Now, a lot of that mail was mail that revolved around, we're praying for you, you know, get well soon, those kinds of things. ⁓ but there were a lot of people who were struggling and they were sharing their stories with us. Some of those stories we couldn't handle on our own. others we could because of our own personal journey. But as we entered into that, it led to us forming a 501c3 nonprofit. And it originally started as Dave Dravecki's foundation. But the reality was we started getting emails from people who wanted money from us because we were a foundation and we didn't operate that way. So from there we changed the name to Dave Dravecki's Outreach of Hope. And over the years it has morphed to endurance with Jan and Dave Drabecki. Now, why do I say all of that? Because at one point in time, Jan and I actually thought that once the story would subside, because it was nationally and internationally known based on my journey as a baseball player with cancer, that we would have to get a we'd have to we would have to go out and get a real job. And so we were like, okay, in the next three to five years, this is probably going to slow down. People are going to forget and we're going to have to get on with life. The reality was that it didn't slow down and it kept building. And as a result of that, we started to engage more heavily in that work and putting time and energy into developing resources through our story to reach out and encourage others. And so that developed into what we now call ⁓ the encouragement gift box. ⁓ Sophia. And this box has our resources, our story, along with a Bible called the encouragement Bible, that are resources to encourage people from a spiritual perspective. We we try very hard to answer the question, where is God when it hurts? And and it's a big question. It's a really big question because oftentimes people want answers to their pain and suffering when there isn't an answer. Yeah. And yet it doesn't mean his presence isn't there. And we saw that so much of that through the people that entered into our life to encourage us. And so Jan and I thought to ourselves, this is a way we can give back by reaching out and letting people know you're not alone. We care for you. And this box is a way in which we can express our care for you. Yeah. Because we shared our story and other resources to help them deal with that question, whereas God when it hurts. Yeah. No, I love that. Absolutely. So Yeah, what has faith meant to you during this during this time and how has your faith struggled when you had went through your cancer diagnosis and went through it so publicly? Yeah, it was really difficult. ⁓ you know, on one hand, you know, as a Christian, people think that when you go through pain and suffering, you're you're to look at and be a different way than the rest of the world. But the reality is I'm just as human as the rest of the world. And and God's the one that put all those emotions into us. So those things that I wrestled with and I struggled with so much were very real in our lives. And yet at the center of it, our faith didn't waver because there was a trust in God through the good, the bad, and the ugly. And even though it wasn't perfect, it didn't look perfect, we didn't act perfect. We knew that God was not going to abandon us. That was the strength of our faith. That was the foundation of our faith, was knowing that we were in we were in the clutch of the hand of Jesus. And no one could pry that open. So we were his. And with that were promises that came through reading the Bible and discovering in that relationship there was ultimately a hope that would would be to come. And so, in the midst of the fear of my mortality. In the struggles of battling with depression, Jane and I both went through significant depression in the midst of the good that we experienced, which was wonderful, the bad through being diagnosed, and all the things that came with that, the uncertainty of life, the struggle of every day. How am I going to endure the next surgery? How am I going to endure the next treatment or the therapy, radiation therapy that I would receive? How would I endure the staph infection that lasted for 10 months and having to go through intervenous antibiotics 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. every day for almost eight weeks? That was extremely difficult. And what we learned, what we learned through all of that was that we could stand on that firm foundation of our faith and walk with God through this, no matter how weak we were or how strong we we felt. And the truth is, we were very weak through that process. And and here's the beauty of our faith. Our faith doesn't come through a relationship in which we cannot experience God. And I say that because I believe He placed people in our lives for us to experience the significance of His love and care for us on the journey. So that's where we learned. to value the people that come into our life and to be aware of why they're there, especially in difficult times, because we needed that we needed that companion, we needed that encouragement, we needed those people to walk alongside us. And you know, you you really do discover who your friends are when you're going through pain and suffering. That's the truth. And that's a pretty that's a critical thing on the journey. And and there's gonna be many that are going to walk away. And and I understand that. We came to appreciate the fact that people wanted to but didn't know how to. And so that was a very difficult thing for them. And I had to put myself in their shoes and not be upset with them because they didn't know what to do, but to understand this is hard. We don't know what to do. And there was a there was an individual who was a colonel in the military and he oversaw the missile silos in Mina. Big guy, top guy in military. I mean, you're seeing you're seeing the nuclear sites. And and it and it was a huge responsibility. And he lived in Colorado Springs and he was retired and he knocked on our door of our ministry and said, Hey, I'd like to volunteer. I didn't know who this guy was. And he began to share his story over the period of time that he was with us. And I was having this guy stuff envelopes when I discovered that he was a colonel. And I'm like, dude. Whoops. You should be running my ministry. Yeah, no kidding. That's funny. So the beauty of his story that goes to the point that I'm trying to make is this. We did a video highlighting people's stories of endurance. And ⁓ it's called Journey of Hope. And Dwayne was one of them that was on the video. And I asked him, In the midst of your pain and suffering, what would you tell a friend today that We all need to hear. And he said, Dave, I want to tell you a quick story. During my battle, there was someone knocking on the door. I went and I answered the door, and it was a friend of mine. And he said, Hey, Dwayne, I'm I'm here. I just want you to know that if you need anything, I just came by to say hello, make sure you're doing okay. But if you need anything, give me a call. And he said, I'm standing at the door. And he turns around and he walks away and I'm I'm thinking to myself, please come in and just sit and watch ESPN with me. Yeah. Yeah. And he looked at me in the and in the camera. And this was a couple of weeks before he passed away. He said, the one thing that I want to encourage others who have friends who are suffering to do is two words. Be there. And that's when God shows up. When people are just there. So the one who doesn't know what to do. There's a perfect response for you. It doesn't take anything to be there. You don't have to say a word. You could just sit and watch TV with that guy because all or that gal, because all they want is your presence. That's all they want. And so that was one of the key things that we learned in relationship to our personal journey, the people that came into our life during that time, and then what we were we were able to become to others through their struggle. Yeah, I mean that's that's amazing. And I think there's so many takeaways from that, but I'm I wanna kinda explore a little bit deeper where some people may look at what you've done and say, I could never do that because my faith isn't where Dave's is, right? Like I didn't have this relentless faith. Like I I got mad at God. I was, you know, I didn't know if I believed in God anymore. I didn't know what I believed, but I knew that or maybe they thought if God loved me, this wouldn't happen, right? But how do you address those people that they they may say my faith isn't isn't as strong as yours, Dave? Like I don't know how I'm gonna get through this. And I have horrible depression. I don't want to leave my house. I just lost a child. I, you know, like what do you say to those people where their faith isn't where yours were and how to get through that? Yeah. And have to be honest with you, when you say where ours was, it was right where theirs was. Okay. Okay. We struggle just like just like others do. Yeah. ⁓ I didn't ask why me, God, because on the other side of that question is why not me? Who am I to think that I'm you know, that I'm that I'm exempt from pain and suffering when we know we live in a fallen world where pain and suffering exists. And sooner or later, and trust me, Sophia, the older you get, the more you realize adversity is going to be knocking on your door sooner or later. Now it doesn't mean that that adversity is going to be cancer, but there's all kinds of things that people suffer with. The loss of a loved one, the battle with a job that you end up losing, you know, child that is struggling with trying to figure out their direction in life. There's a lot of things that we struggle with. And we were no different. I mean, I was, I was, I like to explain when I share my story when I go out and speak. I like to explain my explain my life like a roller coaster. I mean, that's what it was. But see, here's the constant in the roller coaster: God never changes. And so if he says he loves me, then he loves me. And in the midst of my roller coaster, no matter how high or how low I am, he loves me. Well, I can begin the more I experience that to hold on to it and to then realize that in the trusting of him with the story that is being written. Called my life, then it's realizing I need to journey with others. So the things that we did during that time, which were very hard, very hard, was I tried to read my Bible because the closer I was with Jesus through reading his word, the more comfort I would experience in that. Did it, did it, was I still shaking at the core? Yes. But there was a comfort and a peace that surpasses understanding. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to be afraid of what's ahead of me because I was young. I was 32 years old. Yeah. I wanted to live a long life. I wanted to, you know, I wanted to see my kids grow and and and find spouses and get married and give me grandkids. Yeah. I wanted all of that. And that was very uncertain. And so I had questions just like they did. I had doubts and fears just like others do. But the things that helped us the most to endure that, the first thing is to be honest with how you're feeling and not be afraid to express that to others. Because here's the biggest obstacle for most people going through pain and suffering. I don't want to be a burden to somebody else. Sure. And ⁓ men are historically the worst. And I mean I've worked in healthcare for 10 years. And you know, I see men ⁓ consistently, especially when they get older, ⁓ that get Alzheimer's or or whatever it is that didn't deal with issues that they had because that wasn't an option. You know, you s you sucked it up and you had to be the traditional man that ⁓ didn't talk about your problems, right? And then when they have Alzheimer's and they can't control it anymore, those things come out. ⁓ that Pt that PTSD, the ⁓ you know, the behaviors, those things happen because They didn't have the tools to deal with that then and nobody wanted to talk about it. And everybody wants to say, you know, strong men act this way. And ⁓ I think we're trying to just really create a culture where it's like strong men actually ⁓ you know, do the work, do the mental work so that they can be great husbands, so that they can be great partners. And what does that take for them to do that? You know. Yeah. That and that and that's so good. You know, it's really interesting that you bring that up. I had no intention of doing this, but I'm in the middle of reading my book, The Worth of a Man. ⁓ if is that yours? Yes. It's it's it was published years ago. Okay. And we we reprinted it. And and so I'm getting ready to go on a trip with my son. And we're going to be with a group of sixty-five men talking about this very issue, The Worth of a Man. And in the book, as I've been reading it, I've been reminded of my own personal struggle. In coming to the reality that it's no longer about sucking it up. It's about admitting your weaknesses and letting people into those weaknesses so that you can work through them to get to the other side, to understand the value of. I came across a quote that says this. ⁓ Vulnerability leads to authenticity. Authenticity leads to freedom. And most men that I know want to be free. But free from what? I want to be free from anger. I want to be free from moods. I want to be free from pointing the finger at others instead of taking the blame myself. I want to be free to say I'm sorry. I want to be free to say I screwed up. I want to be free to admit that I was wrong and that I need to do a correction in this, no matter what it takes. And so what I've discovered in this journey. Through the pain and the suffering of battling with cancer. And now, you know, it's been, gosh, I was diagnosed in 1988. Wow. So we're talking about a long time. And as a result of that, I feel like I've been on a journey of learning these things. And they haven't come all at once. It's been over. These years of experiencing the good, the bad, and the ugly of my life. And trying to answer the question how do I define my true worth? You know, that's the question I think of the age that most people don't want to address. Or they define it based on what they have in material possessions or what they don't have. People can feel worthless or feel like they're worth a lot. And and for me, worth is defined not by what you have. Or your work. It's defined by who you are. And so when I begin to unpack who I am, I have to be honest in the mirror about myself. And in doing so, I've discovered first when I became a follower of Jesus, that my identity is in what God thinks of me. My identity is in what who God says I am, not who I think I am, but who God says I am. And God says That through this relationship with him through his son Jesus, I am one of his children. I get adopted into his family as a result of that commitment to him. Well, from that point forward, I become more like that child than I am as a part of the adopted family. And that child matures into an adult. Well, that comes with the seasons of life that especially throw the hard things at us. And as it does. We become more like him if we're leaning into him and trusting him. And that's where I draw my strength to be able to deal with those tough questions that you've raised that most people have, the frustrations and the anger and the fear and the doubt and the worry and the anxiety, all those things that I had. But over the years, as I've wrestled with those things with God, he has shown me that I really can trust him. And in that trusting, he's brought people into my life to guide me on that path to get to where I'm at today. And so I would acknowledge, and the first thing I would do is allow those people, once they've been honest about what they're dealing with, to acknowledge the fear, acknowledge the doubt, acknowledge the frustration or the worry about the future. Don't be afraid to acknowledge that. But then to be reminded, none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. Right. Right. None of us. And so, so what do I have? I can't do anything about the future because I don't know what it is. I can't do anything about the past because it's in the past. I can't change what happened. So all I have is this present day to live. So how will I live it? Even in the midst of battling pain and suffering. How will I live it? Because we make choices every day. Life is 10% what happens. And 90% how I react to it. And so so that's that's how I've come to deal with it. And when it gets to the point where I can't handle it, the most important thing to do is reach out for help. So during that's like the hardest, that's the hardest thing in the world to do though, Dave. It really is. Yeah, it really is. It really is. And and and I can explain that to you in my own experience. When we were g in the thick of what we were going through, my wife was overwhelmed with. Burden of responding to everybody. Then she had to take care of her husband. She was my nurse. Then she had to take care of our children. Then she had to take care of our home. So my wife was doing everything and she crashed and burned. In the middle of that, I had no empathy for her whatsoever because it was all about me and my pain and suffering. And so in that conflict, she was crying out for help. And in my pride, I was saying, no, suck it up, pull up your bootstraps, look at me. But she wasn't me. Yeah. And to be honest with you, that was just a facade that I put up. I was wearing a mask. Yeah. When in reality, I was hurting just as much as she was. And finally, somebody came to me and said, Look, Jan needs help. She's actually physically sick. She's taken herself to the point. Of burnout, which has caused her to go into depression. And now she needs help to work out of that. And guess what, Dave? It's your responsibility to get her that help. And you go with her to make sure she sees your love through your support. Well, we started that counseling. And guess who was on the couch couch three months later? Wah. And so the two of us were in the Best possible place to actually go through the process of healing from all that we had experienced. That lasted for 18 months. And it was the most beautiful experience of our lives because it we were both tracking on separate tracks, but parallel tracks. And then all of a sudden, along the path of that 18 months, it intersected to the beauty of what it was doing to our marriage. And it was amazing because I was learning how to communicate. I was understanding the power of Jan's communication. And it was the beginning of actually learning that process. And it's taken all the way up to where I'm at today and beyond to keep learning how to communicate more effectively. But after that, we moved to Colorado. We were in Ohio going through all of this, and we moved to Colorado. And when we got to Colorado, Jan had received a manuscript from a Christian counselor in Littleton, Colorado. His name was Gary Oliver. And he had written a book on men and their anger. No coincidence that Jan got the book being married to a man who was wrestling with his anger. She looked at me and she said, Look at this book that I have to endorse. She goes, Dave, he's 30 minutes from here. Do you want to go to him to deal with your anger? And I looked at her and I said, Absolutely. I had finally gotten to a point, Sophia, where I realized I didn't want to be that man anymore. That man was ugly. That man was mean. And I didn't want that. And it wasn't every day, but it was a part of my story. And so I said, babe, yes, let's go. And here's what the gift was that she gave me. She came to every session for twelve months. Wow. So that she could understand what I was going through and she could know the tools that would be necessary to keep me from ever going there again. And I can tell you that from that point forward, I had a few episodes. I had my Mount Vesubiuses, but they were far and few between. And I can tell you that probably in the last 15, 20 years, I have not had an outburst. My anger has always been at something else that was ridiculous. And I realized that's ridiculous. Just calm down, Dave. But it was not against my family anymore. And that was a beautiful thing. And so that's the other thing I think is so important. When people find themselves in the midst of a difficult difficult time, be honest about your story. And if you need help, don't be afraid to reach out and get it. So I know you probably know this, but June is actually men's mental health awareness month. And so we're doing all of these podcasts that ⁓ really highlight that. And I think it is so, so, so ironic because I talk to tons of male athletes, and every single one of them has told me in a different way how they've struggled with mental health issues. And Athletes especially. And I I highlight that because I think it's really important to say we can change how we're teaching our children. We can change how we are raising them to express themselves in a healthy way. And and like you said, God gave us these emotions for a reason. You know, fear is healthy. You know, being sad is healthy. Like these things are healthy, but the all these athletes that come to me and they're like, you know, I I felt like if I was a good athlete, I had to shut all that off because it interfered with my focus. And that's what I had been told throughout all of my training was that I can't have these emotions because emotions are bad. Emotions, you know, steer your focus. But then, you know, once you bottle them down so much, then it, you know, catapults into this huge, you know, depression, anxiety, you know, having panic attacks before they go out there because. You know, they haven't had even a space to be able to do that. And so I'm wondering how you feel about how it's been like when you were an athlete, do you feel like we've come further with addressing these mental health issues, or do you feel like, man, we still have a long way to go for these kids? Well, well, I do feel that we have a long way to go, but I also feel like we've come a long way because we were so far behind. Back when I played, you didn't ever express weakness. Because if you did, then the opposite side could take advantage of that weakness. And and what we forget is in the world of athletics, sure, it's a profession in a way we make a living, but it's just a kid's game. It's just a game. And so we place so much emphasis in our culture on these things that I think it adds the pressure to the kid to be. To not expose weakness. And so we have begun to talk. We've begun to open up. We've begun to share. Those are all really important things. But I'm convinced it starts in the home. It starts with dads. I learned so much through my experience that what I learned through the 12 months of counseling with my anger issues, I was able to pass down to my son. And my son and I have been able to talk about those weaknesses. And say that it's okay. Because in that process, you can understand how to get to the other side and not be consumed by that weakness to the point where it takes you to depression. Because here's what it boils down to: when people are insecure in who they are, then it's really hard to face the pressures of the world that we live in. Because everything is going to be defined by. Our successes or our failures. Sure. Well, that's not the way God intended it. God intended it for us to know who we are in relationship to him. That's why he did what he did. That's what his plan and purpose was through his son Jesus, to identify with him and know that we are valued more than we can comprehend because of his love for us. And in that identity, we can be secure to live out of a place. That is healthy, but we have to learn what that looks like. And so when we go into the world of sports, which my son went into, and now my grandson, talk about talk about anxiety. No kidding. No kidding. I go to my grandson's games, and I mean, my wife and I are sitting there and I'm nail biting, man. This is driving nuts. ⁓ and so I've just I've learned that it starts at home and as a man. One of the greatest strengths that you can provide for your family is to let them know how weak you are. And that we love that. I love that we do this together. Yeah. And we you know, what I love about what you're saying too is that, you know, you you have great faith, clearly. You know, you have a really great relationship with God and that's incredible. ⁓ but what I also love is that you're saying, Hey, you know, God put these resources on earth for you to utilize when you're having problems. So use them as you know, use, you know, go to therapy. Get, you know, have some self-discovery, have some self-awareness. Because if you don't, then you just continue to damage people over and over and over again. Even if it's, you know, it should be about you wanting to improve your life and improve how you are as a person, but maybe you're not there yet. And maybe you need to look at it like, hey, my relationships keep failing. My kids aren't doing well. So if I want, you know, these things to improve, like I have to improve the toxic traits about myself and use use these tools that are given to you. ⁓ and you know, whether it's medication, whether it's, you know, therapy, whatever it is, like stop having this stigma around getting help because at at the end of the day, none of us know what we're doing. And I had this wonderful interview with ⁓ Ben Zobrist yesterday and he's meant huge mental health advocate. And he's like, you know, I think that that's why people have resonated with you so much. Cause I go into something, I'm like, hey, I have no business here. Like, I am not in the media world. ⁓ I'm in the healthcare world, but I've I'm just trying to be authentic and just saying, Hey, this is ⁓ this is me and this is who I am and I don't really know what I'm doing. And I think a lot of people are like, ⁓ thank God, we don't have to. put on a front with this girl because, you know, she's she's being honest and just saying, I d you know, I don't know. And so I think that there is like beauty in that and just saying, don't know what I'm doing, but I'm here. I'm trying. I'm not giving up. And ⁓ you know, I think that's all any of us can do. Yeah, I I I think that's wonderful insight because I want people to see me for who I really am. I want what you see is what you get. And and and it's and it's without It's without a mask. And see, that's part of the problem in our culture today is we choose to wear masks because we want people to see a certain image about ourselves. And therefore, it's really hard to break down the wall of the weaknesses that we have that we need to expose because we have an image that we need to actually portray so that we get loved. And here's the sad part about that, Sophia. The only if you choose to wear masks. And you can't be honest about your life, no matter what situation you're in. This conversation. I mean, I we're we're being honest. I've had my struggles. I'm weak. I've been angry. I've been afraid. You know, what we all have them. And so what happens is here's the problem with people who choose to wear a mask and reveal that they've got it all together. The only thing that ever gets loved is the mask. Not you. Yeah. Not you. And that's the saddest part. That's the saddest part. Because the reality is, once I expose myself and I go, look, this is me, warts and all. My wife loves saying that. That's her favorite phrase. This is me, warts and all, babe. Warts and all warts and all. And and the truth is, if you can't love me, warts and all, that's okay. Because I know who does. She's married to one who does. Because she loves me, warts and all. We have children who we've been honest with about our story, who love us and we love them, warts and all. And we have friends who love us, warts and all. And that's the key to the culture. The key to the culture is we don't have close relationships anymore. This is our relationship. The phone, the smartphone. The smartphone is actually the idiot phone. Because it reveals that we try to find love and approval in all the wrong places. Instead of developing face-to-face, heart-shelt relationships where there's a level of trust that says even when we disagree, we can love each other. Even when we are struggling, we can love each other. Even when we have we we need people to talk to when we're going through a difficult time, and we need to express what's going on in our hearts. And maybe that person can give us some wisdom. Today, nobody has wisdom. Today, people are afraid to talk to you because if you don't think like they think, then there's conflict, no matter what it is. And so as a result of that, we shy away from healthy, close, intimate relationship. And I'm so grateful that I have a handful of friends that know me. Here's here's a here's an incredible quote. What if there were a place so safe that the worst of me could be known? And I wouldn't be loved less, but more in the telling of it. Yeah. Isn't that what we I mean? I hope that's a marriage. Yeah, I hope that I hope that's a marriage. You know, that's that's whatever, that's the goal, right? Yeah. Absolutely. And I I completely agree. It's gotten to a point where. ⁓ I feel like you can't have a conversation with somebody that doesn't align with you a hundred percent because I'm so afraid to offend somebody. And that's what my biggest fear was with starting this podcast is I'm gonna offend what if I offend people? What if I hurt people? Like, and that's never my intention, right? It's never my intention to hurt anybody, but unknowingly saying something that may offend someone. And, you know, it I just felt this cum like I was compelled to do it regardless. And I think that, you know, we've gotten into a world where you can't disagree and still have respect. And and that's what's really sad is, you know, my dad's 83 years old and he's like, This is the most divided I've ever seen our country. This is the most divided I've ever seen people. And it's really, really sad. You know, I see families get split up from, you know, ⁓ different political views or whatever it may be. And it's like, ⁓ man, like can we not just sit down and have a conversation and just respectfully disagree, like disagree anymore. It just feels like we can't. And I want to get back to that of, you know, I don't agree with you, but I don't have to agree with you. I still know you're a good person, you know, and we just move on. You live your life and I'll live my life. And that's okay. Yeah. And it it it it it really is sad. It's very sad. And and and to your point and To my own my own personal experience with battling with cancer, I needed people in my life. We need each other. We can't do this thing alone. Totally. You know, g God knew when he created Adam that it wasn't good for man to be alone. And so he created Eve. And the reality is that we need We came in and shook up your lives forever. In a beautiful way. Yeah. In a beautiful way. I think, I think the the beauty of the beauty of marriage in particular is that I used to think that we completed each other, but we don't. I'm already completed because of God's love for me. But what I do do, I hope, and what Jan definitely does for me, is we complement each other. And that comes through the relationship. over time working through all the difficult things. And ⁓ and and the and that commitment until death do us part is what's etched in stone. And it's like a stake has been driven in, which says you endure. And you endure to the point of thriving as you do life together with your spouse, because everything is going to be thrown at you, including the kitchen sink, when you go through life as spouse, husband and wife, and as parents, and now as grandparents. And and that strong commitment and conviction through the complimenting of what one another gets us through. And the love for each other, that love then changes. It there, you know, there's that the beautiful aspect of love that dives deep, deep into the intimacy of the relationship. being able to sit and talk about the hardest things in life and to be able to come up with ways in which we can live in the midst of those difficulties. You know, ⁓ whether it's the world around us or our family that's struggling or friends that are struggling, how can we, how can we help them? How can we step in? And here's the other thing that I've learned about dealing with life's issues, you know, meeting people right where they're at. Right where they're at. You know, instead of trying that's like good or bad, right? Like absolutely don't expect people to show up in a way that they've shown you they can't show up. Yeah. At some point that's on you. If you think this person could show up in this way and they've proven they can't, you know, have just that wisdom for sure. Yeah. Here's the thing that I I think for me has been so helpful because you know, it's it's easy to get critical and judgmental. Yeah. It's really easy. But if I look at people through the eyes of their story and how God sees them, that's going to be a whole lot different. So my desire every day that I go out into the public, and my wife has taught me well with this, is to see them with the eyes of Jesus and go into the heart and realize there's a story there that you know nothing about. And so if they're angry at you or if they get frustrated with you, or if they don't like the way you you you you miss turning on your left turn signal and and you get yeah, you know, you get the bird. Yeah. You know, I get honked at a lot. Yeah, for sure. Getting honked at, you know, and and you just let it roll over because you don't know what's going on in that person's world. You don't know the frustration they may be experiencing, the heartache they may be experiencing. And if we would just see people with different, a different set of eyes, eyes that say, I care deeply about what you're going through, even though I don't know what you're going through. I care about you. You know? And the reason why I care about people is because God does. You know, I have a question. I have a question for you, Dave. What would you say to somebody, you know, that is absolutely in the trenches right now? They are going through it. They've just lost their job, their girlfriend, everything. They feel like they are. At absolute rock bottom. Okay. Where would you say start here? If you can't do anything else today, start here. Whoa, that's a loaded question. One thing. If you can do one thing to improve your mental health, it you know, if you can't do anything else today, do this. Yeah. I ⁓ this comes with a back end to it, but I know in my deepest, darkest moments, all I had was crying out to God for help. And that was the first thing I did. But then what followed was going to somebody and letting them know I'm hurting and I need you to listen and then begin to pour out my heart. And I can't tell you how many times, Sophia, that that has happened. And in that moment, God's response to me was somebody that gave me a call or somebody who texted me. I I'll share a quick story with you. I was in a really difficult place in my life and I was, we were back in Ohio. And I was struggling with all the stuff that was going on. I was wrestling with God. I was wrestling with my health. I was wrestling with all my emotions. And I saw this mess on my desk, which was my responsibility to take care of it. And I went over to the desk and I swooped my arm all the way across the desk and cleaned it off. And everything fell on the floor. But I had a clean desk. But when I got up from that desk, there was a mess on the floor that still needed to be cleaned up. And all of a sudden I got a phone call in that office. And it was from Chuck Swindah, a pastor from Texas. And he said, Dave, I want you to know that I understand that you're hurting. And I want to share a little vignette with you that I've been working on for a sermon message. And it was out of Philippians chapter four, verses 11 through 13. And and and the apostle Paul, Saint Paul, is saying, I know what it means to be in want. I know what it means to have plenty. I know what it means to be well fed. And I know what it means to be hungry. And trust me, Paul experienced all of that in his life. But then he goes on to say that I have found the secret. And that secret was being content no matter what my circumstances. And then he said, Therefore, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And in that has been my story. That encouragement that day came when I was crying out for help. That encouragement came that day when I thought I could wipe all my problems off the desk by just wiping my arm across that desk and they were still there. Now, some people may not be in that place spiritually, but it doesn't matter. Cry out. What do you mean to that? What do you mean by that? If they're not in that place spiritually, it doesn't matter. It's having an understanding of who God is, having an understanding of how much God loves you, having an understanding that He sent His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him. What if they don't? What if they don't have that? What if they've never had that opportunity or that education or their parents didn't believe that? Or, you know, what if they don't have that? I well, I've known many people who have in the midst of their pain and suffering have decided, okay, God, I don't know if you're there or not, but I'm crying out to you for help. And they go find a church. Yeah. And they step into the church and they go there and they ask someone there for help. ⁓ I would encourage people, from my perspective, it's it's that it's that place with him. That gives me the strength to endure this life. And so my faith is critical to my journey. And I would want people to understand that. It's an invitation. That's what it is, Sophia. It's an invitation. And the invitation is investigate. You and I have been carrying on a conversation. We may have differences of opinions, but we're learning about each other through this conversation. Yeah. The thing that I struggle with is that a lot of people don't want to learn about God. They don't want to know about God because they don't think God cares or they don't think he exists. Well, all you have to do is investigate a little bit to find the historical evidence that validates the crucifixion. There's more now that's going on in our world through archaeology where we're discovering things that the Bible speaks directly to. So all I say is investigate. Don't be afraid to find search for meaning and purpose and truth. Don't be afraid. Do you feel like it's almost contradictory to say have faith? But when you have faith, you need to go find the proof, right? Like, how do you say have faith? You know, and this is where I I'm gonna tell you my own personal battle, right? And I just got to a point where I'm like, No, I am I am a Christian. I didn't like it. I think it was like Gandhi who said, you know, I love your Christ, but I don't like your Christians. And that's how I felt for a really long time. Cause I'm like, you know, how could anybody not love Jesus? Everything he stood for was love. That's all he did was he loved people, right? He died, he loved people. You can't hate a guy that does that. It's what people use the Bible to do. That makes you not love Jesus. And it's like, no, that's not who he was. He wasn't a person that spread hate. He wasn't a person that judged others. He wasn't a person that threw threw stones. He sat with prostitutes and he sat with tax collectors and he sat with people that, you know, no one wanted to have anything to do with. It's like, that's not a person you can hate. ⁓ but there was a there is a stigma with Christianity about being very judgmental. And I didn't want to be associated with that. I was like, I I want to love people. I want to enjoy people at every walk of life. And I think that we need to get back into that and being like Christi being a Christian is literally being Christ like. You know, that's what the the word means. And so how do you be more Christ like? How do you love people more? How do you forgive others and bring a better name to Christianity? As horrible as that sounds, it it why does it have such a negative connotation to it? Yeah. You know what? Those are all great things. They really are. But here's the thing that I've learned. Because I've had the conversation with many of my friends who believed in God but didn't want to go the Jesus route. And they just said, because of the hypocrisy that I see all around me, somebody claiming to be a Christian and a follower of Jesus sleeping on his wife. Somebody doing this or somebody doing that. And what I've come to learn over time is. That unfortunately, when we start, when we when we when we take our eyes off of Jesus and we start looking at the behavior of others to identify our faith, then we've missed the point of our faith because the object of our faith is not man who is sinful and flawed, but the object of our faith is Jesus. And so we look to Jesus for the answers and we go into scripture to see how Jesus lived in the way of life. That he calls us into to live in following him to your point. And so that becomes beautiful. In Matthew chapter 11, verses 28 through 30, it says this Come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your soul. For my for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. That's the invitation that Jesus gives. That's who we discover when we read the scriptures. Man is going to be flawed. Men in their in their religious attempt to please God are going to miss the mark and they're going to make mistakes and they're going to fail. But God is not that God. God is the God who reaches down to us. Through his son Jesus Christ and and invites us into a relationship. He doesn't twist our arm. He doesn't have us walk down an aisle a hundred times. He doesn't, he simply makes an invitation. And the invitation is, come follow me, all you are who are weary and heavy laden. And as you enter into that relationship, that's when you can begin to understand who to cry out to. That's where you can begin to understand who to go to. And and those become important parts of dealing with the stuff of life, you know? ⁓ I do I do have a question for you because I I know ⁓ you know, I do have very little knowledge about your baseball career. I re you know, but I do know y you had cancer. Can you tell me what cancer it was? Yes. ⁓ it was actually two types of cancer. ⁓ I had a desmoid tumor, which by nature is benign. But then I had centers of fibrosarcoma, which is very aggressive. And so what the beauty of my diagnosis was the benign tumor encapsulated the aggressive fibrosarcoma, which kept it from becoming metastatic. And so as I was a little shield. It was a little shield. But the problem was the fibrosarcoma was very aggressive in pushing out that shield. And so it kept growing up my arm and into my cavity of towards the cavity of my body, which was which was the reason for the amputation, was to arrest the movement into the main cavity of my body because then you would lose margin in relationship to getting at the cancer. And so that was the amputation actually this June eighteenth, Of nineteen ninety-one was when I had my left arm and shoulder removed, and that'll be thirty-five years. Wow. So your shoulder is actually removed as well. Yes, I have no shoulder. This is just ⁓ wow. Two inches of clavicle. Wow. And so i if I did you play baseball after No, I did not play baseball after. No, ⁓ it was actually before that I was diagnosed while I was playing. Yeah. And the the all the incidents that happened around my story came around that. And ⁓ so ⁓ yeah. Wow. Wow. Well ⁓ my gosh, what a you know, miraculous story. And I just I'm so honored to get to talk to you about everything that you've done for just cancer patients probably all over the world, I'm sure. Just giving them hope and the insight that ⁓ this is not the end. And ⁓ you know, just give just hope. That's the best thing in the world you can give somebody and just loving them from afar, even if you don't know them. And ⁓ I'm I'm just so honored to support your work. I just think it's ⁓ incredible. And whatever we can do to to help you fulfill that mission that you have, we want to do that. and yeah, I I I you know I I really feel for your wife as well. I think her perspective would be really interesting to hear also just From a different standpoint of, you know, this is what it was like ⁓ dealing with this. And ⁓ you know, there's actually a diagnosis that is called caregiver role strain that, you know, they s have been studying more and more about the physical health that and the toll that it takes on caregivers when their spouse or, you know, parent loved one has cancer or is sick. ⁓ and you know, just hearing that side from her, I think would be really, really amazing too. But I definitely appreciate. You just taking the time to sit down and having a great conversation with me and telling me exactly what you're doing in your foundation and ⁓ how you ⁓ inspire so much hope in so many people. I appreciate that, Sophia. Thank you very much. It's been great visiting with you. And I've loved the conversations, been wonderful. Me too. Me too. Thank you so much for stopping by, Dave. And ⁓ let's raise some money for your foundation. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah. Have a great day. Okay, you too. Take care. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye. And that's the giving game. If today's episode hits close to home for you, the donation link for this athlete's charity will be in the description below. And if you can't donate right now, hey, that's okay too. Just do something kind for somebody today. The world needs more of that. See you next time!